Is Leonard the second best player in the team now?

[apalisoc_9]

T4r

[Skull-1]

Duh.

[gee]

What, after THAT DUDE?

[Fireball]

I want him to be, but why is the discussion coming up now? Only because Timmy seems to have regressed? Kawhi is not very good right now on offense, his 3 pointer is off and his handles look worse than last season. His defense is great, but bring this discussion up when he elevates his game on the other side of the ball too ...

[Skull-1]

His defense creates offense. How many times does he poke the ball out and fast break a dunk? Come on man!

[itzsoweezee]

He's playing great. He just needs to start hitting threes again.

[PlayNando]

He needs to learn how to dribble, tbh... I don't know why he gets a pass for this. He'll never be an All-Star unless he rectifies this.

[Prime Time]

Eh, I still think Duncan is the 2nd best player. Kawhi is 3rd, no question about that.

I remember last season there was a thread claiming Leonard was the Spurs' 3rd best player, and everyone was saying he was still behind Manu Ginobili because of "How good Manu will be in playoff mode". Funny how that turned out.

[Skull-1]

.....


I remember last season there was a thread claiming Leonard was the Spurs' 3rd best player, and everyone was saying he was still behind Manu Ginobili because of "How good Manu will be in playoff mode". Funny how that turned out.


:toast

[cd021]

In terms of play this season

Parker
Splitter
Diaw
Ginobili
Leonard
Duncan

Technically he's having a better season, His scoring is about on level with last season. He's averaging 4 or 5 minutes fewer, so he's scoring at a higher rate. His 3pt shooting has been suspect and don't get me started on his dribbling...

[wildchild]

Well, he's the face of franchise...for mex :sombrero:


Promo Video Spurs vs Wolves game Mexico City Dec. 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqkapeYEwS4&feature=youtu.be

[palangi]

is he "IN" the team or "ON" the team??

that is the real question here.

[Skull-1]

is he "IN" the team or "ON" the team??

that is the real question here.

:lol

[wildchild]

In terms of play this season

Parker
Splitter
Diaw
Ginobili
Leonard
Duncan

This season? Leonard's the 2nd scorer and his D>>Splitter Manu...

Parker
Leonard
Diaw
Splitter
Ginobili
Duncan

[Juggity]

KL is not better than Duncan or Parker. He's the 3rd most valuable player on the team imo.

[cd021]

This season? Leonard's the 2nd scorer and his D>>Splitter Manu...

Parker
Leonard
Diaw
Splitter
Ginobili
Duncan

Splitter's defense has been better and Manu has certainly helped the Spurs rank 3rd in bench production. Leonard coasts way to much if he played like he did against Memphis (2nd game) then its clearly him. Scoring is only part of it the question is 2nd best player. He is the 4th right now IMO.

[cd021]

I want him to be, but why is the discussion coming up now? Only because Timmy seems to have regressed? Kawhi is not very good right now on offense, his 3 pointer is off and his handles look worse than last season. His defense is great, but bring this discussion up when he elevates his game on the other side of the ball too ...

This...All of this

[Skull-1]

KL is not better than Duncan or Parker. He's the 3rd most valuable player on the team imo.


Indisputable. /Thread

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I would hope not. We're screwed if he is (unless he drastically improves his offense in a very short period of time).

[Chinook]

He's pretty clearly been behind Parker and Splitter. When he's on, he looks great. But he's been inconsistent on both sides of the ball.

[wildchild]

I want him to be, but why is the discussion coming up now? Only because Timmy seems to have regressed? Kawhi is not very good right now on offense, his 3 pointer is off and his handles look worse than last season. His defense is great, but bring this discussion up when he elevates his game on the other side of the ball too ...


This...All of this



Scoring is only part of it the question is 2nd best player


Scoring/KL 3's/offense, these things seem not "only" part for you.

[Fireball]

Timmy is still defending the rim pretty good ... we mainly worry about his offense as well

[cd021]

Scoring/KL 3's/offense, these things seem not "only" part for you.

I have problems with his offense. His defense is usually good. But he is certainly isn't the second best player as of now.

[apalisoc_9]

I have problems with his offense. His defense is usually good. But he is certainly isn't the second best player as of now.

He will be come playoff time. How else would you explain him taking as many shots as he wants..obviosuly pop knows

[Cry Havoc]

In terms of play this season

Parker
Splitter
Diaw
Ginobili
Leonard
Duncan

Technically he's having a better season, His scoring is about on level with last season. He's averaging 4 or 5 minutes fewer, so he's scoring at a higher rate. His 3pt shooting has been suspect and don't get me started on his dribbling...

This list obviously discounts defensive contributions. Leonard > Diaw every damn day, and > Gino too for that matter.

[rasuo214]

I want him to be, but why is the discussion coming up now? Only because Timmy seems to have regressed? Kawhi is not very good right now on offense, his 3 pointer is off and his handles look worse than last season. His defense is great, but bring this discussion up when he elevates his game on the other side of the ball too ...

If he did all that he'd be in contention for best player on the Spurs this season.

As far as how well each player has done this season I think Parker and Splitter have been the top 2, Kawhi 3rd. Manu, TD and Diaw would be the next 3 (you could make a case for Diaw ahead of TD).

[xmas1997]

If He is the second best player, then the Spurs have problems. He isn't nearly as good as Elliott was in his heyday, and Elliott and Robinson couldn't win it all until TD came on board.

[cd021]

This list obviously discounts defensive contributions. Leonard > Diaw every damn day, and > Gino too for that matter.

Maybe my list reflects Manu and Diaw playing to the best of their abilities and Leonard's sporadic play on both sides. When he plays like he did at Memphis he is hard to deny as the 2nd best player right now but he disappears for long stretches and his long range touch has been awful to start the season (25% thru 17 games). I'll admit be being a little harsh. He is still averaging 12 and 6.5 in just 27 mpg.

[cd021]

He will be come playoff time. How else would you explain him taking as many shots as he wants..obviosuly pop knows

17 games into his "breakout season" and he's shooting 25% from 3pt land. Its been down hill sense he's started shooting more and more from the elbow on 3pt line. Still 12 pts in just 27 mpg isn't bad at all. He just doesn't seem ready to be any more of an offensive threat that Green, Splitter or Ginobili on any given night.

[Raven]

by play this season:

diaw
ginobili
parker
leonard
splitter

[Drom John]

Best Spurs in 2013-2014 by WS currently sort into 5 groups

Big Three
1) Tiago Splitter
2) Tony Parker
3) Kawhi Leonard

Solid next 5
4) Marco Belinelli
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Danny Green
7) Patrick Mills
8) Boris Diaw

Alone in group three but looked very good in Orlando.
9) Tim Duncan

End of bench dregs
10) Cory Joseph
11) Matt Bonner
12) Jeff Ayres
13) Nando De Colo

Negative WS
14) Aron Baynes

[Diego20]

Best Spurs in 2013-2014 by WS currently sort into 5 groups

Big Three
1) Tiago Splitter
2) Tony Parker
3) Kawhi Leonard

Solid next 5
4) Marco Belinelli
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Danny Green
7) Patrick Mills
8) Boris Diaw

Alone in group three but looked very good in Orlando.
9) Tim Duncan

End of bench dregs
10) Cory Joseph
11) Matt Bonner
12) Jeff Ayres
13) Nando De Colo

Negative WS
14) Aron Baynes

I disagree. No matter the present, big three = TD, Manu and TP.

[apalisoc_9]

Both green and splitter don't have the "green light" to chuck shots..They are role players at best and they know that..Leonard on the other hand is struggling but you gotta be crazy to think he's going to struggle the rest of the season..Plus, I doubt both Green and splitter would ever take the same amount of shots.

If there's one thing Leonard has proven the last two years, it's his ability to up his game in the playoffs..

[Holden_Caulfield]

nope, he gets neutralized easily if hes the main option even as the 2nd

[Gummi Clutch]

Leonord is a system player. I like him but he is overrated on here.

[Cry Havoc]

Leonord is a system player. I like him but he is overrated on here.

A freak top 5 defender with massive hands, great hops, and a decent 3 ball. Oh, and he's 23.

Yeah. Clearly he'd only work in the Spurs system. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

A freak top 5 defender with massive hands, great hops, and a decent 3 ball. Oh, and he's 23.

Yeah. Clearly he'd only work in the Spurs system. :lol

22.

[Buddy Mignon]

Allstar Kiwi needs to step it up. Parson is burning his ass.

[Buddy Mignon]

Leonord is a system player. I like him but he is overrated on here.

[Obstructed_View]

Shooting long jumpers off the dribble in crunch time? Uh, no.

[DMC]

If Leonard is the 2nd best on the team, we're fucked.

[Kool Bob Love]

He's on the bench in the most important part of the game.

[KL2]

Allstar Kiwi needs to step it up. Parson is burning his ass.


Hes been guarding and shutting down Harden, put that Naruto comic book down and pay attention.

[PlayNando]

Hes been guarding and shutting down Harden, put that Naruto comic book down and pay attention.

No he hasn't.

[Ice009]

Not even fucking close to being the second best player on the team.

[Chomag]

It seems Pop doesnt think he is. Was sitting in crunch time, plus his average minutes are pretty low for a young player (all-star Type player).

[Kool Bob Love]

Bonner>Kawhi.

[RD2191]

Kawhi is a decent role player tbh

[Skull-1]

Without his defense we are out in the second round or worse. No WCF. No Finals. Period.

[ElNono]

Wish his 3 ball would start going in, tbh

[Ice009]

Kawhi's defense isn't elite and his offense is mediocre. I love Kawhi and the effort he plays with, but after Pop talked him up, I'm not happy with his overall play this season.

He's been taking nights off defensively and hasn't been very good offensively. Get your head out of your ass Kawhi. If YOU WANT IT, you gotta bring it 100% every game.

[RD2191]

Kawhi's defense isn't elite and his offense is mediocre. I love Kawhi and the effort he plays with, but after Pop talked him up, I'm not happy with his overall play this season.

He's been taking nights off defensively and hasn't been very good offensively. Get your head out of your ass Kawhi. If YOU WANT IT, you gotta bring it 100% every game.

[ElNono]

I'm with Harlem though, that Pop should move Kawhi to Parsons and Danny to Harden against the Rockets.... this game was the first time we play the new Rockets and I think some of that stuff is being worked out...

[RD2191]

Kawhi's defense is overrated tbh. Yeah he's great against slower players but I have seen him get burned by quicker players going to the rim.

[Ginobili3]

Wonder what happened to his 3?

[Obstructed_View]

It seems Pop doesnt think he is. Was sitting in crunch time, plus his average minutes are pretty low for a young player (all-star Type player).

By that rationale, Pop thinks Bonner's pretty good. Diaw gets injured and suddenly Splitter can't get minutes.

I don't have a problem with Kawhi except when he settles for jumpers. If that's the offensive game plan, then there are eight other guys I'd rather have doing that.

[Buddy Mignon]

Kawhi's defense is overrated tbh. Yeah he's great against slower players but I have seen him get burned by quicker players going to the rim.

Would you shut up and stop stating the obvious.

[siraulo23]

please kawhi d IS ELITE but I agree he's been taking nights off, which i really dont mind, you dont want him to play with PO intensity defensively in Nov

with that said, he has bad chemistry with the team offensively and his 3 pt shot is gone, the team doesnt know what to do when he has the ball (not his fault) and he is a poor passer, there is no flow on offense whenever kawhi is involved the offense gets disrupted, SF in pop's system are just designated to sit in the corner and hit 3s while the guards do their thing, and right he cant hit his shots

very disappointing season so far for kawhi offensively

[Buddy Mignon]

please kawhi d IS ELITE but I agree he's been taking nights off, which i really dont mind, you dont want him to play with PO intensity defensively in Nov

with that said, he has bad chemistry with the team offensively and his 3 pt shot is gone, the team doesnt know what to do when he has the ball (not his fault) and he is a poor passer, there is no flow on offense whenever kawhi is involved the offense gets disrupted, SF in pop's system are just designated to sit in the corner and hit 3s while the guards do their thing, and right he cant hit his shots

very disappointing season so far for kawhi offensively

This is what happens when you expect wet pussy from a dry ****.

[DMC]

Wish his 3 ball would start going in, tbh

He needs to move into his range. I realize the Spurs play Euroball and chuck 3s all game, and hope Tim gets a stop on the long rebound runout, but Leonard shoots well from inside the arc. They need to utilize that more, because he can rise over most defenders to get his jumper off.

[DMC]

Kawhi's defense is overrated tbh. Yeah he's great against slower players but I have seen him get burned by quicker players going to the rim.

You don't know shit about defense if you think any player can guard the perimeter and the paint. His job is to funnel players, not stop them. If they take the outside shot, he contests it. If they drive, he's supposed to push them to their weak side where help defense should be. Bonner is not a great help defender.

[Darius McCrary]

Kawhi needs to step the heck up on offense.

[RD2191]

You don't know shit about defense if you think any player can guard the perimeter and the paint. His job is to funnel players, not stop them. If they take the outside shot, he contests it. If they drive, he's supposed to push them to their weak side where help defense should be. Bonner is not a great help defender.
Kawhi is still overrated.

[sook]

Good player but overrated.

[Buddy Mignon]

Kawhi needs to step the heck up on offense.

The retard is giving you his all.

[siraulo23]

everyone expecting kawhi to have a breakout season (including me), i very much doubt it's gonna happen this year or next year

he's looked good in some games, but it's been a rarity so far this season, the most disappointing aspect imo is his lack of chemistry with the team, everyone stands around when he has the ball and nobody sets screens set for him

[siraulo23]

Good player but overrated.

especially the media (lols) after his finals performance

[Sean Cagney]

Kawhi needs to step the heck up on offense.

YOUR DAMN RIGHT....

[Sean Cagney]

especially the media (lols) after his finals performance

The thing is he is young and has a lot of growing to do! He is not where some thought he was after the finals or ready to fully break out and be an all star yet like some predicted or thought! He has ALOT of growing to do and thats a fact.

[DMC]

Kawhi is still overrated.

I said that a long time ago.

[wildchild]

I'm with Harlem though, that Pop should move Kawhi to Parsons and Danny to Harden against the Rockets.... this game was the first time we play the new Rockets and I think some of that stuff is being worked out...

Agree. Next games against Rox, Green should be defending Harden and Leonard defending Parsons, bc Green has done a good/at least decent job against Harden for a few minutes tonight.
Most of this game was KL on Harden-Green on Parsons and didn't work.


On other hand, if Kawhi doesn't step up, if he can't shot, if he isn't elite defender...we'll be dead in playoffs. Really dead.

[Ice009]

He needs to move into his range. I realize the Spurs play Euroball and chuck 3s all game, and hope Tim gets a stop on the long rebound runout, but Leonard shoots well from inside the arc. They need to utilize that more, because he can rise over most defenders to get his jumper off.

I'm curious, did Jordan used to shoot a lot of mid-range jumpers? I know he didn't shoot a lot of threes, so where did he shoot from when he couldn't get to the rack? I assume he took mid range shots? Plus, Jordan has big hands, as does Kawhi, so maybe a mid-range game for Kawhi would be better than him shooting threes? The reason I mentioned this is because I saw an interview with Jordan a couple of weeks ago and he mentioned that he had an advantage on offense with the size of his hands. Kawhi needs to use that to his advantage too.

[mingus]

I didn't watch the HOU game I gotta disagree with the word overrated some of u guys are describing him with.

Hes clearly one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and a consistant threat for 3+ steals a game (which usually leads to automatic buckets), is probably second to Lebron James as a SF for rebounding (offensive and defensive).

But Pop doesn't call shit for him on offense most of the time. Somehow he's got to get the ball more.

[Ice009]

I didn't watch the HOU game I gotta disagree with the word overrated some of u guys are describing him with.

Hes clearly one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and a consistant threat for 3+ steals a game (which usually leads to automatic buckets), is probably second to Lebron James as a SF for rebounding (offensive and defensive).

But Pop doesn't call shit for him on offense most of the time. Somehow he's got to get the ball more.

If you've watched most games, you'll see that he doesn't do shit with the ball most of the time. He needs to drive to the rack and score or draw the foul, but it doesn't seem like he has the handles to do it. When he gets the ball, he usually takes a few dribbles, stops, and then shoots a jumper. I'd love it if he mixed in the jumper every now and then, but if his only weapon is take a few dribbles, stop and shoot a jumper, then that isn't really going to get us anywhere. He needs the threat of being able to drive to the rack and finish to make it much more effective.

I'm still going to support Kawhi, but he really does have a long, long way to go. Hopefully he can continuously improve this season and get most of the way there. I believe he can.

[mingus]

If you've watched most games, you'll see that he doesn't do shit with the ball most of the time. He needs to drive to the rack and score or draw the foul, but it doesn't seem like he has the handles to do it. When he gets the ball, he usually takes a few dribbles, stops, and then shoots a jumper. I'd love it if he mixed in the jumper every now and then, but if his only weapon is take a few dribbles, stop and shoot a jumper, then that isn't really going to get us anywhere. He needs the threat of being able to drive to the rack and finish to make it much more effective.

I'm still going to support Kawhi, but he really does have a long, long way to go. Hopefully he can continuously improve this season and get most of the way there. I believe he can.

I agree wholeheartedly that he needs to improve his dribbling to use it to get to the hole. It's a shame he isn't better at dribbling seeing how he finishes well around the rim when he gets there. That's just going by the eye test, but maybe the stats say different.

But where he has been effective is in the post and I don't think Pop utilizes him there enough. By no means do I expect him to beast in the post, but I think he deserves some more touches there.

I also agree that he has a ways to go offensively if he is to meet fans and Pop's (calling him the future) expectations and like you said I think eventually he'll get there. I think in a couple years he'll be there though because he's still very rough offensively.

[JRHernandez88]

He's the 3rd most important on the team. After Duncan and Parker in that order. We really don't need a superstar scorer with the offense we run but what he adds to our perimeter defense is the difference between us and the rockets tbh.