I've had it with Ginobili

[TD 21]

No more of him late in games against good teams. You need aggressive, high percentage players in these situations and he no longer fits that description. Everything is some fancy, thread the needle pass, which either gets picked off or narrowly avoids it, or it's some awkward step back/forced looking three.

I presume the lack of aggression is because he's so conscious of attempting to avoid injury at all costs, but nonetheless, they can't have it. Parker forced the issue some in the second half, but he also killed himself to attempt to win this game and he's got a lot more recent mileage and responsibility than Ginobili. He needs help from Ginobili or he's once again going to wear down and succumb to some nagging injury at some point in the playoffs.

Some other random thoughts . . .

- Leonard's inability to stretch the floor is killing this team and worrisome. Due to his limited range (basically, the corner three is the extent of it) and still not overly long track record, it's not a given he drastically picks it up. They especially can't have it against teams like the Rockets, who are loaded with big wings that can score.

- Speaking of which, against teams like this, it's beyond obvious that this team desperately needs another big, two-way SF/combo forward.

- It's still somewhat premature, but Duncan more or less looks back to normal. He may not necessarily quite get back to last year's normal, but realistically, that was questionable to begin with.

[ElNono]

No more of him late in games against good teams.

Nope... you're getting the same for 1.5 more seasons.

[Mikeanaro]

He wasnt the first guy to receive the ball to be fair with him, bonner and other dudes hesitates when they have the ball at least he tried, patty mills or marco would done the same, Ive had it with pussies like Kiwi or Donny Groin.

[Skull-1]

No more of him late in games against good teams. You need aggressive, high percentage players in these situations and he no longer fits that description. Everything is some fancy, thread the needle pass, which either gets picked off or narrowly avoids it, or it's some awkward step back/forced looking three.

I presume the lack of aggression is because he's so conscious of attempting to avoid injury at all costs, but nonetheless, they can't have it. Parker forced the issue some in the second half, but he also killed himself to attempt to win this game and he's got a lot more recent mileage and responsibility than Ginobili. He needs help from Ginobili or he's once again going to wear down and succumb to some nagging injury at some point in the playoffs.

Some other random thoughts . . .

- Leonard's inability to stretch the floor is killing this team and worrisome. Due to his limited range (basically, the corner three is the extent of it) and still not overly long track record, it's not a given he drastically picks it up. They especially can't have it against teams like the Rockets, who are loaded with big wings that can score.

- Speaking of which, against teams like this, it's beyond obvious that this team desperately needs another big, two-way SF/combo forward.

- It's still somewhat premature, but Duncan more or less looks back to normal. He may not necessarily quite get back to last year's normal, but realistically, that was questionable to begin with.


Well, said. However, Manu doesn't attack because he can't. He is old and slow. His body won't do what his brain tells it to any more....

[vander]

5 years ago thread

[TheGreatYacht]

5 years ago thread

Yet Pop doesn't see it, because, overrated.

[TheGreatYacht]

No more of him late in games against good teams. You need aggressive, high percentage players in these situations and he no longer fits that description. Everything is some fancy, thread the needle pass, which either gets picked off or narrowly avoids it, or it's some awkward step back/forced looking three.

I presume the lack of aggression is because he's so conscious of attempting to avoid injury at all costs, but nonetheless, they can't have it. Parker forced the issue some in the second half, but he also killed himself to attempt to win this game and he's got a lot more recent mileage and responsibility than Ginobili. He needs help from Ginobili or he's once again going to wear down and succumb to some nagging injury at some point in the playoffs.

Some other random thoughts . . .

- Leonard's inability to stretch the floor is killing this team and worrisome. Due to his limited range (basically, the corner three is the extent of it) and still not overly long track record, it's not a given he drastically picks it up. They especially can't have it against teams like the Rockets, who are loaded with big wings that can score.

- Speaking of which, against teams like this, it's beyond obvious that this team desperately needs another big, two-way SF/combo forward.

- It's still somewhat premature, but Duncan more or less looks back to normal. He may not necessarily quite get back to last year's normal, but realistically, that was questionable to begin with.

:toast

[DMC]

5 years ago thread

10 years ago tbh. Manu came into the league playing exactly the same way, except some of his passes would be to the crowd.

[Buddy Mignon]

Oh shut up, you faggots. Blame it on the leader.

[TD 21]

Well, said. However, Manu doesn't attack because he can't. He is old and slow. His body won't do what his brain tells it to any more....

I don't buy that it's age related. Obviously, nobody attacks the rim as much as he used to is going to as much at his age and with his mileage, but when he's hell bent on doing so, he can still do it. He's not Kidd, to where he's completely and utterly incapable of doing so. He just chooses not to a lot.

Much of the time, I'm fine with it. I understand him wanting to be cautious and quite frankly, the team is more than good enough to get by without it. But games like today, after Parker willed the team back into it, he was obviously going to be gassed down the stretch. That's when he needed Ginobili to at least share the load offensively and he just refuses to do it.


And for those idiots pretending otherwise, this started last season. I just thought it was to preserve his hamstring for the playoffs, which was hanging by a thread. Apparently it's here to stay.

[ElNono]

Much of the time, I'm fine with it. I understand him wanting to be cautious and quite frankly, the team is more than good enough to get by without it. But games like today, after Parker willed the team back into it, he was obviously going to be gassed down the stretch. That's when he needed Ginobili to at least share the load offensively and he just refuses to do it.

I'm not even sure what do you mean. He ran some pick and roll with TD that ended up with that and1 for Tim or a wide open 3 pointer for Bonner that Matty missed. I suspect you want him to shoot more 3s or something?

[TheGreatYacht]

Oh shut up, you faggots. Blame it on the leader.

Fuck up dike

[TheGreatYacht]

10 years ago tbh. Manu came into the league playing exactly the same way, except some of his passes would be to the crowd.

dead. :lmao

[RD2191]

dead. :lmao
:lol

[TheGoldStandard]

I haven't had it with Manu, didn't know why Manu was subbed in for Beli towards the end though. Always go with the hot hand.. I'd rather have a bunch of smalls running the floor if all we were going to do is Hack a Howard.

[mclinejr]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Ginobli looked bad tonight?

[ElNono]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Ginobli looked bad tonight?

No.

[HI-FI]

no doubt Operation Latino Outreach with Manu has been extremely profitable, but don't think it will help Duncan get another ring. hope I'm wrong though.

[DMC]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Ginobli looked bad tonight?

He didn't look bad. He just looked out of control. Like always, when one of his through the legs passes works, it's the best thing in the world, Manu is a god. When it doesn't, Manu is a fucking idiot. It's his choice to live dangerously. Pop knows it and doesn't do anything about it. I guess that's better than having someone like Green who shies away from the responsibility of ball movement.

[ElNono]

He didn't look bad. He just looked out of control. Like always, when one of his through the legs passes works, it's the best thing in the world, Manu is a god. When it doesn't, Manu is a fucking idiot. It's his choice to live dangerously. Pop knows it and doesn't do anything about it. I guess that's better than having someone like Green who shies away from the responsibility of ball movement.

Pretty much. And that's why it's going to be more of the same as long as he's around. The team is constructed like that.

[TheGreatYacht]

no doubt Operation Latino Outreach with Manu has been extremely profitable, but don't think it will help Duncan get another ring. hope I'm wrong though.

[td4mvp2k]

Ive had it wit winnin to :lol

[PlayNando]

He didn't look bad. He just looked out of control. Like always, when one of his through the legs passes works, it's the best thing in the world, Manu is a god. When it doesn't, Manu is a fucking idiot. It's his choice to live dangerously. Pop knows it and doesn't do anything about it. I guess that's better than having someone like Green who shies away from the responsibility of ball movement.
DMC with the goods. :tu

[Chinook]

I said in the game thread that Manu should have to earn crunch-time minutes instead of being given them by default. He hasn't been the unquestionably best choice to close the game since 09. But he didn't look too bad tonight. I have no problem with him getting the nod over Green and Leonard, since neither of them looked good at all.

[UZER]

5 years ago thread

word

[TMTTRIO]

Can we just make one hate Manu thread instead of a 1000? I'm a little tired of talking about him and unfortunately for some of you he's still going to be on this team for quite a while no matter what you say or do.

[spurraider21]

Oh shut up, you faggots. Blame it on the leader.
:lmao blaming everybody but kobe for the past 3 years

[Baam]

Beli was obviously signed to replace Manu in crunch time but Pop doesn't have the balls to do it until the POs...

That said this team looks like it reached its ceiling and is going downhill right now, the scouting report is out on Green and td 21 is right about he lack of SF killing the smallball D like some of us said it would. Basically the other team just need to go small, making the so called elite defense complete fools gold...

Kawhi looks like he can't shoot anymore, it's pretty bad...

I'd consider trading either Green or Kawhi for the right package at this point... Start Marco now instead of when we're down 2-3 in the first round... Trade Kawhi for Butler + Snell + pick for instance... Or Waiters + Karasev + pick... Last one would fuck up the D but offense would be on steroids at least...

If they don't want to make a move, they're headed into a wall.

[Mikeanaro]

Beli was obviously signed to replace Manu in crunch time but Pop doesn't have the balls to do it until the POs...

That said this team looks like it reached its ceiling and is going downhill right now, the scouting report is out on Green and td 21 is right about he lack of SF killing the smallball D like some of us said it would. Basically the other team just need to go small, making the so called elite defense complete fools gold...

Kawhi looks like he can't shoot anymore, it's pretty bad...

I'd consider trading either Green or Kawhi for the right package at this point... Start Marco now instead of when we're down 2-3 in the first round... Trade Kawhi for Butler + Snell + pick for instance... Or Waiters + Karasev + pick... Last one would fuck up the D but offense would be on steroids at least...

If they don't want to make a move, they're headed into a wall.
Pop would never trade Green, he was very clear about that (remember Stephen Jax) and Kawhi is like the baby he always wanted, those 2 are his left testicle and right testicle, and nobody touches Pop in the balls.

[ElNono]

Pop would never trade Green, he was very clear about that (remember Stephen Jax) and Kawhi is like the baby he always wanted, those 2 are his left testicle and right testicle, and nobody touches Pop in the balls.

Pretty much. I can see them moving Nando... I don't think anybody else on the team is going anywhere, tbh... either it's gonna work out or not.

[Mikeanaro]

Pretty much. I can see them moving Nando... I don't think anybody else on the team is going anywhere, tbh... either it's gonna work out or not.
Right, Pop is Stubborn and will always be so this is his Squad to Live and to Die, I hope they get it right in time to win that fucking ring. On the other hand, the East is a joke, I can see miami and Indiana getting a 75-7 record.

[james evans]

i didn't see the game tonight so i can't comment. hbo fights and TUF season finale is on so that wasn't a top priority(nate diaz is fighting right now and i'd love to see him get ko'd), but be careful about calling ginobli out. a few members up here will claim that u me, greatyatch, and skull are the same person with 4 different accounts. once again i didn't see the game tonight so i can't comment on it, but i'm sick of ginobli jumping on his passes. that shit needs to stop asap. but he's been doing it for so long he can't stop

[Sean Cagney]

Pretty much. I can see them moving Nando... I don't think anybody else on the team is going anywhere, tbh... either it's gonna work out or not.

We are 14-3 so it has worked some so far! By the looks of it you would swear we were horrible and losing! Ginobili has been good this year so far as well! He hit a three late in this game and although he missed that last one he had a pretty solid night IMO. Spurs are not as good as they can get yet, some need to just calm down.

[PlayNando]

Manu is shooting 45% on the season, 93% from the free throw line, and has a two-to-one assist-to-turnover ratio. Unfortunately, a lot of posters on this forum are morons and can't see that he's having a good year so far. Be happy, idiots. He certainly looks a hell of a lot better than last year.

[james evans]

damn that fight didn't last long

[cd021]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Ginobli looked bad tonight?

He looked good in stretches. He took that 3 to give us the lead late with confidence. He also had a nice between the legs feed to Duncan in the middle of the paint late in the 4th.

[Sean Cagney]

Manu is shooting 45% on the season, 93% from the free throw line, and has a two-to-one assist-to-turnover ratio. Unfortunately, a lot of posters on this forum are morons and can't see that he's having a good year so far. Be happy, idiots. He certainly looks a hell of a lot better than last year.

He is playing good.

[cd021]

Manu is shooting 45% on the season, 93% from the free throw line, and has a two-to-one assist-to-turnover ratio. Unfortunately, a lot of posters on this forum are morons and can't see that he's having a good year so far. Be happy, idiots. He certainly looks a hell of a lot better than last year.

His 3pt shooting is also returning to form. He is shooting about league average. I had mentioned on ST before, if he could get his 3pt numbers up to about 34% he would an much more effective player. His P.E.R had jumper from 15.3 to 17.5 in about two weeks.

[cd021]

i didn't see the game tonight so i can't comment. hbo fights and TUF season finale is on so that wasn't a top priority(nate diaz is fighting right now and i'd love to see him get ko'd), but be careful about calling ginobli out. a few members up here will claim that u me, greatyatch, and skull are the same person with 4 different accounts. once again i didn't see the game tonight so i can't comment on it, but i'm sick of ginobli jumping on his passes. that shit needs to stop asap. but he's been doing it for so long he can't stop

He played pretty well. He had 11 assists and 4 turnovers and the best +/- on the team (+6). He should have had 2 more assists; had Mills not missed a wide open layup off a perfect Ginobili pass or Beli missing a open corner three where Ginobili attacked the rim and forced the defense to collapse.

His jump pass is like Farves cross body pass. It can turn out great or be a recipe for disaster. But on the plus side. His ability to find open cutters on the other side of the court is remarkable. He does it now 2 or 3 times a game and with very little risk and high reward given defenders get lost in a sea of screens.

[cd021]

He didn't look bad. He just looked out of control. Like always, when one of his through the legs passes works, it's the best thing in the world, Manu is a god. When it doesn't, Manu is a fucking idiot. It's his choice to live dangerously. Pop knows it and doesn't do anything about it. I guess that's better than having someone like Green who shies away from the responsibility of ball movement.

Interested in this comment. What options does Pop really have at his disposal? Leonard can't shoot, Beli can't defend, Mills can't play SG in crunch time, Green either can't miss or can't hit. Alot of times his best choice is riding Manu out and hoping he can pull something out.

[james evans]

He played pretty well. He had 11 assists and 4 turnovers and the best +/- on the team (+6). He should have had 2 more assists; had Mills not missed a wide open layup off a perfect Ginobili pass or Beli missing a open corner three where Ginobili attacked the rim and forced the defense to collapse.

His jump pass is like Farves cross body pass. It can turn out great or be a recipe for disaster. But on the plus side. His ability to find open cutters on the other side of the court is remarkable. He does it now 2 or 3 times a game and with very little risk and high reward given defenders get lost in a sea of screens.
i looked at some highlights and he's still a great passer. no doubt. he just needs to settle the fuk down in transition and stop looking for fouls on the drive at times. but as i said earlier, he's been playing this way for so long it's hard to stop.. the way he's played this season, i hope he doesn't try to do more than what he is capable of during the playoffs.

[DMC]

Beli was obviously signed to replace Manu in crunch time but Pop doesn't have the balls to do it until the POs...

That said this team looks like it reached its ceiling and is going downhill right now, the scouting report is out on Green and td 21 is right about he lack of SF killing the smallball D like some of us said it would. Basically the other team just need to go small, making the so called elite defense complete fools gold...

Kawhi looks like he can't shoot anymore, it's pretty bad...

I'd consider trading either Green or Kawhi for the right package at this point... Start Marco now instead of when we're down 2-3 in the first round... Trade Kawhi for Butler + Snell + pick for instance... Or Waiters + Karasev + pick... Last one would fuck up the D but offense would be on steroids at least...

If they don't want to make a move, they're headed into a wall.
Belli's decisions aren't that great either.

[james evans]

Beli was obviously signed to replace Manu in crunch time but Pop doesn't have the balls to do it until the POs...

That said this team looks like it reached its ceiling and is going downhill right now, the scouting report is out on Green and td 21 is right about he lack of SF killing the smallball D like some of us said it would. Basically the other team just need to go small, making the so called elite defense complete fools gold...

Kawhi looks like he can't shoot anymore, it's pretty bad...

I'd consider trading either Green or Kawhi for the right package at this point... Start Marco now instead of when we're down 2-3 in the first round... Trade Kawhi for Butler + Snell + pick for instance... Or Waiters + Karasev + pick... Last one would fuck up the D but offense would be on steroids at least...

If they don't want to make a move, they're headed into a wall.
trade leonard for who? hahaha. are u serious? draft picks?

[DMC]

Interested in this comment. What options does Pop really have at his disposal? Leonard can't shoot, Beli can't defend, Mills can't play SG in crunch time, Green either can't miss or can't hit. Alot of times his best choice is riding Manu out and hoping he can pull something out.

I don't know, do you see Tony throwing the ball all over the place and turning it over on the break trying to thread a pass between 4 defenders? Manu plays a lot of slop ball, and it can look like artistry at times. Obviously there are other ways. Pop stated a long time ago that he just lets Manu do his thing, and lives with the outcome. I can see how that's an attractive option given the alternatives, but there are times in the game when Pop should act as regulator. Otherwise you're telling me that a team has to live with a player throwing the ball away and making heroic play attempts in crunch time.

[tmtcsc]

Manu wasn't the problem against Houston. I thought Green was awful and Leonard was sub-par. Still, they fought back and had a chance to win. Should have won really. Id like to see Manu drive to the basket more but Im not sure he can do it consistently. The game was lost on the defensive end and Pop absolutely tore in to the team. Especially Tony.

Houston does not shoot mid-range shots very often. It's 3'sn transition baskets and stuff in the paint. I think that's why Pop was incensed at all the open looks. Its not like they didn't know the 3's were coming.

[wildchild]

Pop would never trade Green, he was very clear about that (remember Stephen Jax) and Kawhi is like the baby he always wanted, those 2 are his left testicle and right testicle, and nobody touches Pop in the balls.

For real? He always wanted a black baby with cornrows?



(Just kidding)

[polandprzem]

When Pop cannot play his typical 20man rotation the spurs are unable to compete at high level all game long with 7 man

I don't know what is with Ginobili but his turnovers always costs spurs the most. He turns the ball over and there goes fb and damage is made ..

[Stabula]

I'm not a big Ginobili fan but he's not the reason we lost tonight.

[hyhy]

+6 tonight

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I wonder if people even watch the game?

[emanueldavidginobili]

Lol at people blaming Manu for this one, he was creating all game for people and opened the game up and also picked his spots to score, green played fucking awful Kawhi confidence looks shattered I love him but how many times this season have we seen him break away 1-1 and just fucks up his ball handling is atrocious, and I know Tp got us back in the game but he over dribble way to much towards the end especially when Marco had the hot hand.

[SpurYank]

Manu does a lot of little things on the court that benefit the Spurs as a "team" that escape the simple minds of those who post here and imagine that GOD plays on this team, or should. In a day or two the bitching will disappear, only to appear again. Ho- hum. You guys have been seeking perfection since 1999, the first year we won. Isn't gonna happen. Live with it.

[Skull-1]

Can we just make one hate Manu thread instead of a 1000? I'm a little tired of talking about him and unfortunately FOR TIM DUNCAN he's still going to be on this team for quite a while no matter what you say or do.


Fixed.

[Skull-1]

Manu is shooting 45% on the season, 93% from the free throw line, and has a two-to-one assist-to-turnover ratio. Unfortunately, a lot of posters on this forum are morons and can't see that he's having a good year so far. Be happy, idiots. He certainly looks a hell of a lot better than last year.

And already slowing down less than twenty games in.... He is done. Where's my toaster?

[Skull-1]

When Pop cannot play his typical 20man rotation the spurs are unable to compete at high level all game long with 7 man

I don't know what is with Ginobili but his turnovers always costs spurs the most. He turns the ball over and there goes fb and damage is made ..

[DMC]

Manu wasn't the problem against Houston. I thought Green was awful and Leonard was sub-par. Still, they fought back and had a chance to win. Should have won really. Id like to see Manu drive to the basket more but Im not sure he can do it consistently. The game was lost on the defensive end and Pop absolutely tore in to the team. Especially Tony.

Houston does not shoot mid-range shots very often. It's 3'sn transition baskets and stuff in the paint. I think that's why Pop was incensed at all the open looks. Its not like they didn't know the 3's were coming.
Spurs defense has been porous all season. Reggie Jackson went through them at will, as did Harden last night. It's not a common Spurs trait that the opponent can waltz to the rim at will. That's going to have to stop. There's no floor spacing on offense, sloppy rotations... the whole thing. We better clean it up by the break or we're fucked.

[smeagol]

Spurs fans are stupid . . .

[Proxy]

SA still doesn't seem too interested in these early regular season games. Not until McHale got all cunty did the team look to start actually giving a shit.

Parker doesn't seem too confident in his mid-range. Kawhi kills the offense, playing out of his game. Danny shit the bed, and Tiago reverted to a pussy again. Pop puts Bonner in to space the floor.

Big 3 and Belli were the players that got the team back in the game. Manu deserved to be there at the end.

[PlayNando]

And already slowing down less than twenty games in.... He is done. Where's my toaster?

Stop making shat up, fool.

[Kidd K]

What are the alternatives though? The Spurs didn't sign anyone who could fill that role, so we're stuck with Manu if we want a secondary playmaker to play alongside Tony.

And if you want that to change, well. . .those complaints are best saved for the offseason imo.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Give this man a big handkerchief. Because the Spurs I guarantee you will lose quite a few more games this season.

[spurraider21]

oh look, another "i'm through with this shit" thread from CliffDiver21

[myhc]

LOL. How many more of these "________ is done/trade him/rebuild now" threads from December are buried in the archives? :lol

[spurraider21]

just go to TD 21's thread list :lol

[pgardn]

Hysterics by the hysterical.

Ginobili will get pressed hard against Miami and make a horrible pass. He will follow that up with a great kickout and then a 3.

Manu giveth and Manu taketh away. Live with it. I'm glad he is our madman.

[TD 21]

Now this was a knee jerk thread . . . sort of. On the one hand, I largely gave him a free pass for the debacle that was the Finals last season, both for his history and the fact that I knew he wasn't physically right. But when I saw the same disturbing things early in the season, I'd had it.

[spurraider21]

i can only imagine how terrible of a raider fan you would be :lol

[Mugen]

i can only imagine how terrible of a raider fan you would be :lol

He would have killed himself about 2 weeks into Art Shell's second term tbh.

Btw, your boy Johnny Ireland said he'd rather have Jodie Meeks than anybody available w/ the 7th pick. You're right, that nigga is hilarious tbh.

[spurraider21]

He would have killed himself about 2 weeks into Art Shell's second term tbh.

Btw, your boy Johnny Ireland said he'd rather have Jodie Meeks than anybody available w/ the 7th pick. You're right, that nigga is hilarious tbh.
home boy, when i said he was funny, i'm pretty sure i preceded it with "he doesn't have good takes but..."

and yeah i remember hearing that, i think on friday

[Skull-1]

Ginobili will get pressed hard against Miami and make a horrible pass. He will follow that up with a great kickout to Miami and then a bricked three attempt later.


FIFY.