Higher All-time rank as of now: LeBron or Duncan?

[Donkeybong]

Does LeBron's career already trump Duncan's?

[lefty]

Yes

[DAF86]

In before a Kobe mention.

[Katherine Robinson]

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2 gold medals
Duncan: 1 Dookie medal

[spurraider21]

this is a tough question, since lebron is at his peak now. how much longer will his peak last? will his career stretch as long as duncan's has, or will he have a kobe-esque fade? a big part of Duncan's greatness has been his longevity, how he always has his team in contender status. even at age 37 he was seconds away from possibly picking up the finals mvp. can lebron be at that level in 7 years?

peak wise, Duncan's definitive peak was the 03 season, and LeBron's 2012 was as good if not better. although its hard to say since the heat 2012 roster >> spurs 2003 roster. how much longer will lebron's peak last and how long will he have his team in contender mode? these are questions that have yet to be answered.

[Arcadian]

I say Tim ranks higher and stays that way. Both extremely efficient and versatile players, but I'll take a PF/C over a SF.

[Robz4000]

It's about even right now, but when it's all said and done Lebron should be higher barring catastrophic injury.

[Sean Cagney]

Yes

AS OF NOW NO....... Get three more rings then yes. If he gets two more I would even say maybe yes. Right NOW though NO. Timmayyyyyyyy.

[spurraider21]

^lol using the Thread argument

[Cry Havoc]

It's pretty close already, but I think Duncan is still ahead due to longevity. Duncan is in the 5-7 range of greatest players of all-time, and I would put LeBron already in the 6-8 range.

However, Duncan's about as high as he can go unless he balls out this year and wins another title, which would merit a 3rd or 4th spot consideration. LeBron has no ceiling at present time, he could surpass Jordan before it's all said and done. That said, he probably won't, and as such will end up either 2nd or 3rd.

[spurraider21]

there is almost no way for lebron to surpass MJ unless he actually ties or surpasses him in rings. i'm not a fan of the rings argument, standalone, but we've seen lebron come up small on the big stages a bunch of times in his career. MJ was known for always coming through in big games. lebron would have to prove he is the killer jordan was by winning another 3 at least. i mean with MJ, it was like, if he's in his prime, he's gna win the chip, no buts about it

[mudyez]

I'd have Timmy over LeBron, but LeBron will finish 2nd (and possibly 1st for a lot of people) on the list, when all is said and done.

[mudyez]

It's pretty close already, but I think Duncan is still ahead due to longevity. Duncan is in the 5-7 range of greatest players of all-time, and I would put LeBron already in the 6-8 range.

However, Duncan's about as high as he can go unless he balls out this year and wins another title, which would merit a 3rd or 4th spot consideration. LeBron has no ceiling at present time, he could surpass Jordan before it's all said and done. That said, he probably won't, and as such will end up either 2nd or 3rd.

Who is 2nd anyway? Wilts season stats, Kareems all time stats, Bills ships, Magic, Bird? (for me its Bill)

[TDMVPDPOY]

the only thing stopping duncan from jumping up the goat list further is hero ball and management for last 7 seasons finding a fkn backup pg and bowen replacement

[LkrFan]

LeBron repeated.

[AchillesHeel]

1. Lebron





2. MJ








Everyone else

[midnightpulp]

Duncan still.

3 to 2 Finals MVPs in favor of Duncan.

But like someone else said, barring injury, Lebron is all but guaranteed to surpass Duncan.

He's surpassed Kirby, though.

[scanry]

The past two seasons have really upped Duncan's stature on the all time list tbh.

But i think Lebron surpassed Duncan last year after his 4th MVP.

3 > 2 but 2 < 4. It's amazing that these two players combined should've had 8 regular season MVPs (1999 & 2011) by now.

[gnsf0946]

MVP is a joke, Rose has same amount as Shaq and Nash has as many as Duncan

[TDMVPDPOY]

The past two seasons have really upped Duncan's stature on the all time list tbh.

But i think Lebron surpassed Duncan last year after his 4th MVP.

3 > 2 but 2 < 4. It's amazing that these two players combined should've had 8 regular season MVPs (1999 & 2011) by now.
last season if lebron also picked up the dpoy, then i would have no problem with him surpassing duncan, collecting all 3 major awards is something u rarely see

buut then again people love to boast about lebrons season last year, i still dont buy into that 27win streak bullshit coasting and getting pushed in the playoffs by weaker teams
even with the win streak, they only finish a couple of WIN games ahead of 2nd and 3rd best teams in the league, so what was so special about his season anyway

i still dont think what he has done so far on the heat can be compared to the 2 best records in the league when he was a cavelier, if he was that good; shouldnt the heat at least surpass one of them records?

[resistanze]

Still Timmy for now. As other said, in the next 5 seasons Lebron should be in the top 3-5 of all time.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Still Timmy for now. As other said, in the next 5 seasons Lebron should be in the top 3-5 of all time.

if duncan won last season then whatever lebron does in the future wont pushed him over duncan on the rankings, since he beat duncan....he is above duncan atm and only looking over his shoulder in the distance for those below him, unless duncan wins one b4 he retires against a formidable team where he puts up monster stats...but the chances of that happening is nil cause of a certain fake ass hero on the team

[Thread]

LeBron repeated.

Via Duncan's tired old shit bag.

[Clipper Nation]

Via Duncan's tired old shit bag.
Also via the Skunking of Kirby, which enabled the Spurs to get to the Finals....

[JamStone]

LeBron has already played 10+ years in the league. I don't buy the argument he needs a few more years to establish his longevity. If LeBron retired today, the only guys I definitely put ahead of him are Michael and Kareem and Magic. He's grouped in with 3 other guys, Bird, Hakeem, and Wilt behind those top three. I have LeBron slotted somewhere in the top 7 if he didn't play another NBA game ever. For me, Duncan is somewhere in that 8-10 range but won't climb any higher. As for regular season MVPs, yes over the past decade or so, the league MVP has been a joke in some years. But I don't believe many people if any think any of LeBron's MVPs aren't legit. If anything, he has an argument to have a few more, like the year Derrick Rose won, Nash's second, Kobe's. Are there really people that question the legitimacy of LeBron's 4? Even if the MVP is a joke, LeBron's 4 aren't.

As of right now, yes, LeBron ranks higher than Duncan all time.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

LeBron has already played 10+ years in the league. I don't buy the argument he needs a few more years to establish his longevity. If LeBron retired today, the only guys I definitely put ahead of him are Michael and Kareem and Magic. He's grouped in with 3 other guys, Bird, Hakeem, and Wilt behind those top three. I have LeBron slotted somewhere in the top 7 if he didn't play another NBA game ever. For me, Duncan is somewhere in that 8-10 range but won't climb any higher. As for regular season MVPs, yes over the past decade or so, the league MVP has been a joke in some years. But I don't believe many people if any think any of LeBron's MVPs aren't legit. If anything, he has an argument to have a few more, like the year Derrick Rose won, Nash's second, Kobe's. Are there really people that question the legitimacy of LeBron's 4? Even if the MVP is a joke, LeBron's 4 aren't.

As of right now, yes, LeBron ranks higher than Duncan all time.

So if Duncan wins his 5th, you won't put him in the top 5?

[baseline bum]

I lean towards LeBron even at 4-2 since James has played most of his career with a complete garbage supporting cast. I think it's pretty likely he finishes regarded better than Magic, Kareem, and Bird.

[FkLA]

Yes, The King has surpassed Duncan as the best player post-MJ imo.

Bron=2nd best player of all-time

[Thread]

get to the Finals

tee, hee.

[JamStone]

So if Duncan wins his 5th, you won't put him in the top 5?

Does he win the Finals MVP? If the Spurs win another one with Duncan, I don't think it would be Duncan who carries the team.

No, I wouldn't put him in the top 5 with another championship. Kobe has 5 championships and I don't even put him in the top 10.

[HarlemHeat37]

2 of only 4 players in NBA history to win a title with their #2 option averaging less than 17 points per game in the playoffs, tbh:lol..

Also 2 of only 4 players(IIRC) to lead their teams to a title while being first on the team in Points, Assists, Rebounds and either Blocks/Steals for the run, tbh:lol..

It's a shame that niggas that only played 1 side of the floor like Aidsic Johnson and ugly-ass Larry Bird are ranked ahead of Lebron, Duncan and Hakeem, tbh..

[Killakobe81]

MVP is a joke, Rose has same amount as Shaq and Nash has as many as Duncan

this. one of the dumbest barometers of comparing great players, only slightly ahead of ASG appearances tbh ...

ALL NBA team has been a much better barometer, though sometimes even that sucks.


And for the record rings matter when the players are close. Fisher and Lebron are not close so no matter how many rings fisher has Lebron is greater. Duncan and Lebron are pretty close so I could see the ring argument, here. But as many have said Lebron still has the rest of his prime in front of him barring injury. I can see both sides of the argument but I would say Duncan just barely and of course yall cant resist mentioning Kobe...

[spurraider21]

you guys can't make this so formulaic, adding titles, mvp's, finals mvp's with some magical multiplier for each of them. it doesn't work that way.

[Cry Havoc]

Who is 2nd anyway? Wilts season stats, Kareems all time stats, Bills ships, Magic, Bird? (for me its Bill)

Kareem by a healthy margin. After that, I think it's basically a free for all with the next 5 guys all close together. Duncan included in that.

[hater]

it all depends on this year.

If Lebron 3peats no way can duncan contend with that.

but if lebron fails, he'd have to win at least 2 more to contend with Duncan.

and before someone says "its not about championships" once you get to the level of Lebron vs. Duncan, yes, yes it is about championships

[spurraider21]

it all depends on this year.

If Lebron 3peats no way can duncan contend with that.

but if lebron fails, he'd have to win at least 2 more to contend with Duncan.

and before someone says "its not about championships" once you get to the level of Lebron vs. Duncan, yes, yes it is about championships
i think there are way too many variables being ignored if you just make it a ring count

[da_suns_fan]

Whos Duncan?

[hater]

i think there are way too many variables being ignored if you just make it a ring count

I didn't "just" make it a ring count. But once you get to the level of MJ, Shaq, Lebron, Duncan, sometimes # of rings is the difference imo

[spurraider21]

I didn't "just" make it a ring count. But once you get to the level of MJ, Shaq, Lebron, Duncan, sometimes # of rings is the difference imo
once each player has multiple rings, the distinction gets hazier. imo the difference between having 0 and 1 ring >>>> the difference between 3 and 4 rings, etc.

[hater]

once each player has multiple rings, the distinction gets hazier. imo the difference between having 0 and 1 ring >>>> the difference between 3 and 4 rings, etc.

actually imo pretty much "anyone" can have 1 ring. The count should start at 2. And if someone 3peats, that counts immensely because it means said superstar maintained the level.

sure other superstars do maintain the level and fail to repeat, or 3peat, but it's harder to prove this without the hardware to prove it.

[spurraider21]

it could be you were the best player that just didn't happen to be on the best team. shaq was by far the best player in the 2004 finals but he doesn't have any hardware to show for it

[hater]

it could be you were the best player that just didn't happen to be on the best team. shaq was by far the best player in the 2004 finals but he doesn't have any hardware to show for it

sure it's possible, but it's as possible as said player not being good enough to win it all

the proof is in the pudding and rings are the pudding.

put it this way, a guy has a driver's license, another guy doesn't. Sure the guy without the license COULD be a better driver, but who would you pick to drive your family around?

[Thread]

the proof is in the pudding and rings are the pudding.

Bend over. I'll give ya some fuckin' pudding.

[james evans]

no. not even close. when the spurs looked like they were down and out getting swept by phoenix, losing in the first round against the grizz, duncan didn't hook up with his buddies in the off season to build a super team. as great as i think lebron is, that's a sign of weakness.

[james evans]

it all depends on this year.

If Lebron 3peats no way can duncan contend with that.

but if lebron fails, he'd have to win at least 2 more to contend with Duncan.

and before someone says "its not about championships" once you get to the level of Lebron vs. Duncan, yes, yes it is about championships
shaq and kobe had a 3 peat. kareem and magic never did. how many people rank havelcik over larry bird all time?

[lefty]

shaq and kobe had a 3 peat. kareem and magic never did. how many people rank havelcik over larry bird all time?
Shaq and Kobe would have never 3peated in the 80s imo

[Thread]

It's difficult to appreciate Duncan now because he's fallen off so obviously. Though watching James try and figure it out on some nights is embarrassing. The perfection in the 80's spoiled "us." You just got to that plain and figured it would never end. Somebody would come along to replace Jordan and Bird, et al and that seamless way of performing. It didn't take long to settle in to that level of competence and forget the staggering and jolting of years past. Now we're back to it (and worse) and it difficult to retrain the mind to it. Like facing the loss of Breyer's Ice Cream. I still get a half gallon from time to time (they got it at the .99 cent store for the love of Christ) trying to recpature that moment when you'd pry the top off and take that bite and it would be close to orgiastic delights, damn close.

[Kool Bob Love]

I wanna see lebron put up numbers at age 37/thread.

[TDfan2007]

Well let's break it down:

Defense:

Both guys are otherworldly talents on the defensive end. LeBron is more versatile, while Timmy was arguably more impactful, due to his ability to guard the pick and roll and defend the rim at elite levels.

Edge: Wash


Offense:

It may sound strange to say, but both guys are underrated scorers thanks in part to their well-rounded games and unselfishness. In his prime, Duncan could have averaged close to 30 ppg, but played unselfishly within a team-oriented system. Same could be said of LeBron. Both of these guys are/were unguardable one-on-one, but had the wherewithal to know when to force the action and when to defer to teammates. Just compare Timmy's game 6 performance in the 2003 Finals to LeBron's 2012 Finals game 5 performance. They're eerily similar in the way that both guys dominated in Swiss army knife fashion.

Duncan will go down as one of the 3 greatest post players of all time (only McHale and Hakeem have arguments over him), while LeBron is like a lab-born love child of Jordan and Magic. Again, not much separating either guy here.

Edge: Wash...again.


Intangibles:

Both guys stepped up their games when it mattered most (playoffs), and both have produced consistently in the clutch. With that being said, Duncan gets the nod here due to his more consistent Finals performances and legendary leadership ability.

Edge: Duncan


Overall Edge: Duncan by a hair.


Objectively, Duncan has the edge in rings and Finals MVPs, while LeBron has the edge in regular season MVPs. Neither player has a DPOY, but both should have had one by now.

I'd hear out arguments for LeBron over Timmy, because it's definitely debatable, but imo Timmy gets the nod.

[HarlemHeat37]

Lebron is far better on offense and Duncan is far better on defense, tbh..

[TDfan2007]

Lebron is far better on offense and Duncan is far better on defense, tbh..

I agree to a certain extent. I should have placed less emphasis on ability and more on actuality. Lebron can guard the 1-4 effectively, plays the passing lanes very well, and is just a ridiculous physical obstacle for offensive players to overcome. His physical attributes are heightened by the fact that he plays very disciplined defense. Only issue with LeBron is the inconsistency of the defensive effort, but he's gotten much better with that over the years.

As for offense, Duncan was unguardable from about 1998-2007, and regularly dropped 20-30 on the likes of KG, Shaq, and the Wallace Bros, and constant double teams. LeBron may have a slight edge, but he's not FAR better.

[Splits]

I still get a half gallon from time to time (they got it at the .99 cent store for the love of Christ)

:lmao shopping at dollar stores

:lmao living off the gvmt

:lmao SNAP paying bitch

[TDMVPDPOY]

the problem with lebron, why is held to a different standard comparison to jordan, as compared to kobe to jordan

[Splits]

Well let's break it down:

Defense:

Both guys are otherworldly talents on the defensive end. LeBron is more versatile, while Timmy was arguably more impactful, due to his ability to guard the pick and roll and defend the rim at elite levels.

Edge: Wash


Offense:

It may sound strange to say, but both guys are underrated scorers thanks in part to their well-rounded games and unselfishness. In his prime, Duncan could have averaged close to 30 ppg, but played unselfishly within a team-oriented system. Same could be said of LeBron. Both of these guys are/were unguardable one-on-one, but had the wherewithal to know when to force the action and when to defer to teammates. Just compare Timmy's game 6 performance in the 2003 Finals to LeBron's 2012 Finals game 5 performance. They're eerily similar in the way that both guys dominated in Swiss army knife fashion.

Duncan will go down as one of the 3 greatest post players of all time (only McHale and Hakeem have arguments over him), while LeBron is like a lab-born love child of Jordan and Magic. Again, not much separating either guy here.

Edge: Wash...again.


Intangibles:

Both guys stepped up their games when it mattered most (playoffs), and both have produced consistently in the clutch. With that being said, Duncan gets the nod here due to his more consistent Finals performances and legendary leadership ability.

Edge: Duncan


Overall Edge: Duncan by a hair.


Objectively, Duncan has the edge in rings and Finals MVPs, while LeBron has the edge in regular season MVPs. Neither player has a DPOY, but both should have had one by now.

I'd hear out arguments for LeBron over Timmy, because it's definitely debatable, but imo Timmy gets the nod.

Solid

:nerd

[RsxPiimp]

the problem with lebron, why is held to a different standard comparison to jordan, as compared to kobe to jordan

Because he didn't rape or snitched.

[james evans]

Shaq and Kobe would have never 3peated in the 80s imo
i agree and neither would have jordan or pippen

[FkLA]

MVP is right up there with alpha rings on the importance scale tbh.

You can throw an anomaly like Nash out there but aside from him every truly great player has multiple MVPs.

[HarlemHeat37]

Every true great should have a season where they won both Regular Season MVP and Finals MVP, tbh..

If you couldn't do it, you really shouldn't be considered as a top-tier legend IMO..

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think duncan has the opportunity to add more accomplishments to his CV, only problem i see here is the nba going away from him and promoting other players to win awards, whether its dpoy, mvp, all nba, all defensive team, ASG....u know what i mean....

what bothers me with the goat list, why do clowns make it seem like you cant seperate magic n bird, or have anyone between both of them ...is the gap between bird and magic to the next guy that large? 2 overrated hacks just like wilt, russell...

[scanry]

IMO Lebron passed Duncan last year. I don't think rings matter anymore tbh.

I've never seen a smarter player than Magic on the bb court, but Lebron comes very close and they're both so unselfish.

[Killakobe81]

it all depends on this year.

If Lebron 3peats no way can duncan contend with that.

but if lebron fails, he'd have to win at least 2 more to contend with Duncan.

and before someone says "its not about championships" once you get to the level of Lebron vs. Duncan, yes, yes it is about championships

Yep.

[Killakobe81]

Every true great should have a season where they won both Regular Season MVP and Finals MVP, tbh..

If you couldn't do it, you really shouldn't be considered as a top-tier legend IMO..

Silly, tbh.
Okay every truly great legend should lead a repeat ...if you couldn't you really shouldn't be considered a top tier legend IMHO ...

MJ? Yep two 3peats
Shaq one 3 peat
Kobe? Yep.
Magic? Yep.
Isiah? Yep.
Lebron? Yep

Duncan. Nope.

You see what I did there?
:lmao Relying on a bullshit media award that awards Nash the same number of MVP's as Duncan ...

[RsxPiimp]

MVP is right up there with alpha rings on the importance scale tbh.

You can throw an anomaly like Nash out there but aside from him every truly great player has multiple MVPs.
:lmao Malone winning it over MJ TWICE is another case. Iverson over Shaq, Rose over Lebron.

It's a bullshit award that has lost its true meaning. :lol

[Fabbs]

Duncan still most def better career wise.
His allowing Popovich to choke away titles is the only reason it's a question.
If Spurs finish out Game 6 are we even having this conversation? No.

[HarlemHeat37]

Silly, tbh.
Okay every truly great legend should lead a repeat ...if you couldn't you really shouldn't be considered a top tier legend IMHO ...

MJ? Yep two 3peats
Shaq one 3 peat
Kobe? Yep.
Magic? Yep.
Isiah? Yep.
Lebron? Yep

Duncan. Nope.

You see what I did there?
:lmao Relying on a bullshit media award that awards Nash the same number of MVP's as Duncan ...

That's a multi-season team accomplishment:lol..

MVP + Finals MVP in the same season is the pinnacle of dominance in the NBA..it signifies that for an entire year of NBA basketball, you dominated both the regular season AND the playoffs..Dad Killer, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq all did it, tbh..

[ambchang]

At this point, Duncan has a hands up due to longevity. Lebron most definitely has the ability to catch up, but he still has to prove it.

The problem is Duncan was severely underrated during his prime, statistically inadequate "analysts" back in the day was looking at raw numbers of Duncan and compared them directly to Shaq, and concluded that Shaq was the better of the two, yet totally ignored factors such as pace, style of play, and defensive impact. Duncan, in his prime, was actually quite close in terms of dominance to Shaq when all things are factored in, and Shaq was about as dominant as they come in his prime.

Lebron, for all the hype about his dominance, was perceived as more dominant because:
1) He doesn't have anyone even remotely close to him in terms of dominance. Durant, for as good as he is, is like a healthy FT shooting T-Mac. Extremely good player? Yes. Top-10 of all time, no way. Duncan had Shaq, Shaq had Duncan. Lebron doesn't have anyone.
2) There has been a long stretch of time where we haven't really witnessed a top 10 player of all time in his prime. When Shaq and Duncan was in their primes, Jordan was only done with his dominance for 2 years. Shaq and Duncan were done with their dominance around 2005, and even though Lebron reached that level of dominance around 2008 or so, he didn't have the support in terms of team dominance since 2012. That's seven years. Russell led to Oscar and Wilt. Then it went to Kareem and West. Then Bird and Magic with Dr. J and Moses filling in the gap, then Jordan sprinkled with a little bit of Hakeem, then Duncan and Shaq. Since the mid 1970s, there really wasn't much of a gap for transcendental talent, now 7 years after Duncan and Shaq were dominating the league, Lebron came in and people goes unrealistically high on him.

[Killakobe81]

That's a multi-season team accomplishment:lol..

MVP + Finals MVP in the same season is the pinnacle of dominance in the NBA..it signifies that for an entire year of NBA basketball, you dominated both the regular season AND the playoffs..Dad Killer, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq all did it, tbh..

Doesnt matter. It's an actually accomplishment Regular season MVP (Finals is usually on point) has become a media award ever since they got tired of giving it to MJ ,,,even Kobe's was somewhat debatable. Now they are rightfully giving it to Lebron but that is because the advanced stat community loves him. Despiye that they still gave it to rose which i did not mind as much as most on here ... but still tells me the award is bullshit.


Just the same if we look at trends all the truly great has repeated team accomplishment or not.

Hakeem, Magic, Isiah, Lebron, Kobe Shaq

Duncan and Bird are in that OTHER category ...

[Killakobe81]

At this point, Duncan has a hands up due to longevity. Lebron most definitely has the ability to catch up, but he still has to prove it.

The problem is Duncan was severely underrated during his prime, statistically inadequate "analysts" back in the day was looking at raw numbers of Duncan and compared them directly to Shaq, and concluded that Shaq was the better of the two, yet totally ignored factors such as pace, style of play, and defensive impact. Duncan, in his prime, was actually quite close in terms of dominance to Shaq when all things are factored in, and Shaq was about as dominant as they come in his prime.

Lebron, for all the hype about his dominance, was perceived as more dominant because:
1) He doesn't have anyone even remotely close to him in terms of dominance. Durant, for as good as he is, is like a healthy FT shooting T-Mac. Extremely good player? Yes. Top-10 of all time, no way. Duncan had Shaq, Shaq had Duncan. Lebron doesn't have anyone.
2) There has been a long stretch of time where we haven't really witnessed a top 10 player of all time in his prime. When Shaq and Duncan was in their primes, Jordan was only done with his dominance for 2 years. Shaq and Duncan were done with their dominance around 2005, and even though Lebron reached that level of dominance around 2008 or so, he didn't have the support in terms of team dominance since 2012. That's seven years. Russell led to Oscar and Wilt. Then it went to Kareem and West. Then Bird and Magic with Dr. J and Moses filling in the gap, then Jordan sprinkled with a little bit of Hakeem, then Duncan and Shaq. Since the mid 1970s, there really wasn't much of a gap for transcendental talent, now 7 years after Duncan and Shaq were dominating the league, Lebron came in and people goes unrealistically high on him.

I agree he is overrated a bit ... especially on defense. However can't you make the same case for MJ? Once Magic, bird Isiah got old ...who was close to MJ? Malone? Robinson? Ewing?
Your point makes sense but you have to apply the same rules to MJ. And as great as Tim is, you are overrating him a bit here as well ... GOAT PF? sure. Again no repeat. Consistently great but all jokes aside a truly dominate player should be able to repeat once me thinks ...

[ambchang]

I agree he is overrated a bit ... especially on defense. However can't you make the same case for MJ? Once Magic, bird Isiah got old ...who was close to MJ? Malone? Robinson? Ewing?
Your point makes sense but you have to apply the same rules to MJ. And as great as Tim is, you are overrating him a bit here as well ... GOAT PF? sure. Again no repeat. Consistently great but all jokes aside a truly dominate player should be able to repeat once me thinks ...

You know my stance on team accomplishments when evaluating an individual, so this point probably won't go anywhere between us, but repeats have more to do with era, teammates, competition, and most importantly luck. Thing such as health of teammates, matchups, officials and peaking time all factors in a championship. Repeats just doubles the requirement of that luck.

As for MJ. I think he's a product of both how good he was as well as is competition. Sure Barkley, Malone Hakeem and Robinson would have been viewed very differently if they had won a ring during MJs reign and could potentially enter top 10 or 15 all time discussions. But MJ was just that good that he killed them all. That said, if MJ was pitted against prime magic or bird, he would have been viewed differently

For the record, I think MJ is one of the best. Not THE best.

[Thread]

You know my stance on team accomplishments when evaluating an individual.

Yeah, Duncan pooped his pants and you had to give 5 back. Don't blame Stern:::the Jew fuck wished he had two so you could keep yours.

[ambchang]

Yeah, Duncan pooped his pants and you had to give 5 back. Don't blame Stern:::the Jew fuck wished he had two so you could keep yours.

Duncan played great throughout the entire series. Him missing a layup at the end of the game vs earlier on still counts as 0 points. To say he choked and ignoring his stellar games is just idiotic.

[Koolaid_Man]

Boiled down:::

Kobe: 2 gold medals
Duncan: 1 Dookie medal

:lmao