To all you people talking about marijuana [Archive]

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AchillesHeel

12-20-2013, 05:35 AM

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/eb/eb1bedc1b4b33d6858005b10541217b38bfe6299abe4b3502a 528619e19327d2.jpg

Susan Boyle

12-20-2013, 05:53 AM

The only drawback was she lost her state funded benefits for failing a drug test.

Rogue

12-20-2013, 06:50 AM

there're two sides for everything imho. And Marijuana, even when used for entertainment purpose, is still not as bad a drug as heroin and shits.

Bill_Brasky

12-20-2013, 09:30 AM

CubanSucks

12-20-2013, 12:19 PM

weed is good but let's not sit here and pretend it doesn't have it's drawbacks. people who walk around pretending it's some magical herb that cures everything and has no side effects are just as stupid and annoying as people who think it's the devil's plant.

This

it's those overzealous fuckhead stoners that give the willfully ignorant prohibitionists something to point to and laugh.

another thing, weed has only gotten as potent as it is BECAUSE it's illegal and unregulated. I've heard people who used to smoke talk about how crazy it's gotten and how you used to actually need to smoke a whole blunt to feel anything

TSA

12-20-2013, 02:50 PM

another thing, weed has only gotten as potent as it is BECAUSE it's illegal and unregulated. Uh.....no. It's gotten more potent because of science and cultivation techniques.

DJR210

12-20-2013, 03:14 PM

Uh.....no. It's gotten more potent because of science and cultivation techniques.

This. It's legal in certain states and they still carry all the different potency strands that the guy at the end of the block carries.

The growers cultivate and drop them off to the dispensaries and/or the street suppliers, they don't discriminate.

CubanSucks

12-20-2013, 03:16 PM

Uh.....no. It's gotten more potent because of science and cultivation techniques.

Uh.....because it isn't regulated. I wasn't saying weed magically became more potent over time

CuckingFunt

12-20-2013, 03:20 PM

It's grown in potency because, legal or otherwise, regulated or otherwise, there's a market for it. If people will pay more for better shit, shit will keep getting better and better.

CubanSucks

12-20-2013, 04:01 PM

Ya, I agree. I only brought it up because the prohibitionists love to point it out. They also like to bring up laced weed, which is overblown, that's also due to no regulation

FkLA

12-20-2013, 04:52 PM

DeadlyDynasty

12-20-2013, 05:22 PM

Good to hear...haven't enjoyed it since college, though.

Rogue

12-20-2013, 08:36 PM

Ya, I agree. I only brought it up because the prohibitionists love to point it out. They also like to bring up laced weed, which is overblown, that's also due to no regulation
you only bought it to help create the illusion in your mind that the 12-yr old girl you were banging were dead when she was indeed alive, tbh.

CubanSucks

12-20-2013, 10:08 PM

you only bought it to help create the illusion in your mind that the 12-yr old girl you were banging were dead when she was indeed alive, tbh.

That wasn't funny

Wild Cobra

12-21-2013, 12:30 AM

there're two sides for everything imho. And Marijuana, even when used for entertainment purpose, is still not as bad a drug as heroin and shits.
It is also less harmful than both cigarettes and alcohol.

Wild Cobra

12-21-2013, 12:31 AM

DMC

12-21-2013, 12:00 PM

weed is good but let's not sit here and pretend it doesn't have it's drawbacks. people who walk around pretending it's some magical herb that cures everything and has no side effects are just as stupid and annoying as people who think it's the devil's plant.

This. I'm all for the benefits, but the research into these things is fueled almost exclusively by people who just want to get high on it, or make a profit selling it to people who just want to get high. I have nothing against it, probably not nearly as destructive as alcohol, but then it's not the miracle cure either. Use it for what it's good for, even if that's getting high. It might make you lose your competitive drive, but fine, plenty of us are waiting to take your jobs and the world needs pizza delivery guys.

DMC

12-21-2013, 12:01 PM

It is also less harmful than both cigarettes and alcohol.

That's an invalid argument though. Showing the detriments of other things doesn't bolster the benefits of marijuana nor lessen it's negative effects. It's just a red herring. It's not like people choose between them, or that someone who drinks and smokes won't also smoke marijuana. Bifurcation doesn't work here.

boutons_deux

12-21-2013, 12:06 PM

weed is good but let's not sit here and pretend it doesn't have it's drawbacks. people who walk around pretending it's some magical herb that cures everything and has no side effects are just as stupid and annoying as people who think it's the devil's plant.

do you have objections to BigPharma and its drug pushers hiding as much as they can that nearly EVERYTHING they produce, even over the counter stuff, has side effects, some serious, some fatal?

who says mj is magical and cures everything, Mr Strawman?

the endocannabinoid system was discovered only a couple decades ago and does seem almost miraculous when used, with CBD, to treat so many different conditions.

Wild Cobra

12-21-2013, 01:18 PM

That's an invalid argument though. Showing the detriments of other things doesn't bolster the benefits of marijuana nor lessen it's negative effects. It's just a red herring. It's not like people choose between them, or that someone who drinks and smokes won't also smoke marijuana. Bifurcation doesn't work here.

I take it you wish to be so authoritarian, ans eliminate or make illegal anything that is harmful.

Where do you draw the line?

Cheeto

12-21-2013, 01:55 PM

I am a medical marijuana patient in WA State. I have been so for the last 2 years. some of the mmj industry up here is a joke. Too many folks just buying their recommendations. If you can prove a qualifying condition or something close, you can almost always get a card, if you have the $150-$200. It gives us real patients a less than desirable vibe. I received my recommendation from my family doctor, which sadly few will do.
I don't smoke it to just get high either. Most of the time I either vaporize it or make it into a medible. It has been so great. It's been able to help me with my chronic back pain (degenerative disc), with my severe IBS, & other stomach issues that the doctors haven't figured out yet. The one thing I can tell you is that life has been so much better without pain pills. The side effects that I have had have just been short term memory issues. Other than that I'd rather feel better & forget a couple things than be miserable again.

DMC

12-21-2013, 04:54 PM

I take it you wish to be so authoritarian, ans eliminate or make illegal anything that is harmful.

Where do you draw the line?

So because I showed your argument to be invalid, I must hold an opposing viewpoint?

FuzzyLumpkins

12-21-2013, 05:34 PM

Uh.....because it isn't regulated. I wasn't saying weed magically became more potent over time

This is ignorant.

Most of the improvement in cultivation techniques have come from research done in northern european countries where it is legal. the seed banks in holland are world famous for example. People are not going to chihuahua to get the new potent weed from the lawless areas of the world.

mexican red hair sativa is what makes up most of mexican schwag and the quality of that has improved marginally as opposed to the various kush indica and sativa blends produced in europe.

You seem emotional on this topic and very short on anything real.

FuzzyLumpkins

12-21-2013, 05:37 PM

This. I'm all for the benefits, but the research into these things is fueled almost exclusively by people who just want to get high on it, or make a profit selling it to people who just want to get high. I have nothing against it, probably not nearly as destructive as alcohol, but then it's not the miracle cure either. Use it for what it's good for, even if that's getting high. It might make you lose your competitive drive, but fine, plenty of us are waiting to take your jobs and the world needs pizza delivery guys.

It's not particularly difficult to find an unbiased health sttudy. Its really been in the last 20 years or so that the climate has allowed for any fwiw. The drug war is the primary driver behind 'research' and has had quite an effect. The early propaganda is plain to which bias.

All that being said you can find good studies from legitimate sources. I would hope people would have enough critical thinking skills so that is not a problem. I figure you do.

For example:

http://www.uab.edu/news/latest/item/1952-marijuana-smoke-not-as-damaging-to-lungs-as-cigarette-smoke

This is about a study done by UAB and UC published in JAMA.

CubanSucks

12-21-2013, 07:15 PM

This is ignorant.

Most of the improvement in cultivation techniques have come from research done in northern european countries where it is legal. the seed banks in holland are world famous for example. People are not going to chihuahua to get the new potent weed from the lawless areas of the world.

mexican red hair sativa is what makes up most of mexican schwag and the quality of that has improved marginally as opposed to the various kush indica and sativa blends produced in europe.

You seem emotional on this topic and very short on anything real.

Ok..cool. I don't care how it's gotten more potent. You're right, I'm not into botany. My point was its potency is an argument against legalization even though it could be controlled.

Reck

12-21-2013, 07:27 PM

That wasn't funny

Neither is lusting after 10 year olds.

CubanSucks

12-21-2013, 07:30 PM

Neither is lusting after 10 year olds.

Agreed

Wild Cobra

12-22-2013, 01:21 AM

So because I showed your argument to be invalid, I must hold an opposing viewpoint?

You didn't show my argument to be invalid. Daily things we do, eat, etc. can be harmful. Who is to judge that anyway?

Red meat, sunbathing, sugar, etc, etc, etc... These are items people will claim have good and bad effects both.

I ask you again, where within such an authoritarian mindset do you wish to draw the line? Shouldn't people choose for themselves as long as their choices don't infringe on others?

DMC

12-22-2013, 02:43 AM

It's not particularly difficult to find an unbiased health sttudy. Its really been in the last 20 years or so that the climate has allowed for any fwiw. The drug war is the primary driver behind 'research' and has had quite an effect. The early propaganda is plain to which bias.

All that being said you can find good studies from legitimate sources. I would hope people would have enough critical thinking skills so that is not a problem. I figure you do.

For example:

http://www.uab.edu/news/latest/item/1952-marijuana-smoke-not-as-damaging-to-lungs-as-cigarette-smoke

This is about a study done by UAB and UC published in JAMA.

But then that's giving a false dichotomy and it's not about what's good or bad for you. Smokers obviously don't care about the side effects of smoking compared to the desire to smoke. They won't pick one and abandon the other, so it's not a "better brand" of cigarettes. It's an additional thing to smoke, not an alternative thing to smoke. In fact, I'd say it would likely lead to more people smoking cigarettes as they accept smoking pot for recreational purposes (a bit like how a sushi neophyte can adapt to sashimi better than someone who's never even had sushi).

My point has nothing to do with negative effects. I was pointing out that the "legalize marijuana" push has been going on for a long time, and at first it was because the hemp could be used to make cool, strong ropes and wallets and stuff. In reality, people just want to smoke pot. Now it's medicinal. People just want to smoke pot. I remember when 7 and 7 was "cough medicine" because people just wanted to drink. No one did much research on it.

I don't doubt the positive effects of cannibis, but I do question the motive of those people, especially on here, who push to legalize it. There are dozens if not hundreds of effective medications held up by the FDA that people here aren't even mentioning. Why marijuana? People want to smoke pot.

DMC

12-22-2013, 02:46 AM

You didn't show my argument to be invalid. Daily things we do, eat, etc. can be harmful. Who is to judge that anyway?

Red meat, sunbathing, sugar, etc, etc, etc... These are items people will claim have good and bad effects both.

I ask you again, where within such an authoritarian mindset do you wish to draw the line? Shouldn't people choose for themselves as long as their choices don't infringe on others?

Can we choose for ourselves to grow poppy plants or make crystal meth? Where do you draw the line? I don't care if marijuana is legal or not, I just don't think you've made a valid argument.

HI-FI

12-22-2013, 03:00 AM

weed is good but let's not sit here and pretend it doesn't have it's drawbacks. people who walk around pretending it's some magical herb that cures everything and has no side effects are just as stupid and annoying as people who think it's the devil's plant.
agree with this.

I've smoked on and off for quite some time, and I really appreciate it, but I know for me to enjoy the better aspects, sometimes i have to accept or deal with its drawbacks. There's usually a yin and yang or balance to everything.

I'm not shocked by this story though. I research on epilepsy for my brother's sake, and it seems excessive glutamates in the brain lead to seizures. Well cannabis is an antagonist for glutamates, so it makes sense. Even his medication though is full of cannabanoids so it helps out.

DMC

12-22-2013, 03:05 AM

agree with this.

I've smoked on and off for quite some time, and I really appreciate it, but I know for me to enjoy the better aspects, sometimes i have to accept or deal with its drawbacks. There's usually a yin and yang or balance to everything.

I'm not shocked by this story though. I research on epilepsy for my brother's sake, and it seems excessive glutamates in the brain lead to seizures. Well cannabis is an antagonist for glutamates, so it makes sense. Even his medication though is full of cannabanoids so it helps out.

And you realize that no one here except a few of you give a flying rat's ass about the medical benefits of marijuana, they just want to get high. It's like me pushing to make Morphine an OTC medication so I can use it for recreational purposes.

Wild Cobra

12-22-2013, 03:26 AM

Where do you draw the line?

I already answered that: "Shouldn't people choose for themselves as long as their choices don't infringe on others?"

AchillesHeel

12-22-2013, 06:28 AM

DMC

12-22-2013, 02:15 PM

I already answered that: "Shouldn't people choose for themselves as long as their choices don't infringe on others?"

What you are doing there is called "begging the claim". Your question does nothing to support it's conclusion "don't infringe on others" but you're using that as if it's a fact.

I'm not saying marijuana use infringes on others, I'm saying you've not shown it doesn't and since you're claiming that, the burden of proof is yours.

However, let's apply your assertion to other things as well: crystal meth doesn't infringe on others. We should be free to choose to use it. Huffing paint doesn't infringe on others, we should be free to do it. Cocaine use doesn't infringe on others, it should be legal as well. All drugs should be legal since their use doesn't infringe on others.

But wait, what if you have children or if you're pregnant? Does your use now infringe on others? If you smoke marijuana in your home and your children are exposed to it, does that infringe upon them? If you smoke it in public and others are exposed to it, does that infringe upon them?

There are too many variables that you're ignoring with your moralistic worldview that it would take a compendium of essays to address them.

Bottom line though: Do you want to get high by smoking marijuana? You personally.

boutons_deux

12-22-2013, 02:22 PM

"lessen it's negative effects"

which are? disabilities? diseases? deaths?

Wild Cobra

12-22-2013, 02:43 PM

What you are doing there is called "begging the claim". Your question does nothing to support it's conclusion "don't infringe on others" but you're using that as if it's a fact.

I'm saying I'm OK with legalizing drugs that don't burden society. I'm saying that's my line with what should and shouldn't be legal.

I'm not saying marijuana use infringes on others, I'm saying you've not shown it doesn't and since you're claiming that, the burden of proof is yours.

I think most people will agree that it is less dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes. I don't think its necessary to take that tangent.

However, let's apply your assertion to other things as well: crystal meth doesn't infringe on others. We should be free to choose to use it. Huffing paint doesn't infringe on others, we should be free to do it. Cocaine use doesn't infringe on others, it should be legal as well. All drugs should be legal since their use doesn't infringe on others.

Most of these you mention are things that do irreparable damage and have long term effects. Now if someone has a caretaker, instead of imposing on the social system as these people deteriorate, then I'm OK with people destroying themselves.

But wait, what if you have children or if you're pregnant? Does your use now infringe on others? If you smoke marijuana in your home and your children are exposed to it, does that infringe upon them? If you smoke it in public and others are exposed to it, does that infringe upon them?

Why are you getting in such a tizzy over this?

There are too many variables that you're ignoring with your moralistic worldview that it would take a compendium of essays to address them.

Yes, there are too many variables, and I was speaking in general terms. Aren't you smart enough to realize that?

Bottom line though: Do you want to get high by smoking marijuana? You personally.

High, no. several years ago, I used to use it every night. One bong hit as a sleeping aid. Works great for me.

I first smoked it in the 70's when you could get good rolling weed for $20/oz and good bud for $40 to $55/oz. Even getting stoned, the effects are not as bad as alcohol, and it isn't addictive.

DMC

12-22-2013, 03:48 PM

I'm saying I'm OK with legalizing drugs that don't burden society. I'm saying that's my line with what should and shouldn't be legal.

Define "burden society". Do you think cigarette smokers burden society? Do you realize the cost to the system is 200B a year? Who do you think pays for it? Alcohol burdens society as well. Just because there's no immediate direct effect doesn't mean there's not residual effects.

So again, you're not even attempting to show that marijuana doesn't burden society, so why take that approach?

I think most people will agree that it is less dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes. I don't think its necessary to take that tangent.

So then the "less than alcohol or cigarettes" rule should apply to all things. Since cigarette smoking kills millions, and since school shootings kill far fewer, kids should be allowed to carry firearms at school.

See how easily your arguments can be dismissed? Without statics and some form of a basis for proof that your criteria is even valid, you're just using front porch talk.

Most of these you mention are things that do irreparable damage and have long term effects. Now if someone has a caretaker, instead of imposing on the social system as these people deteriorate, then I'm OK with people destroying themselves.

So then the criteria is that you don't require a caretaker when you get old. Who's choice is it to be a caretaker? How is someone needing a caretaker to survive infringing upon your rights to not be a caretaker?

Why are you getting in such a tizzy over this?

Since you cannot provide any logical responses, it must be that I am too emotionally invested.

Yes, there are too many variables, and I was speaking in general terms. Aren't you smart enough to realize that?

I realize you're only trying to impress other people with your vast amount of general knowledge that you cannot pinpoint except in a naysaying fashion. That much I am well aware of. I just get a kick from calling you out on your verbal diarrhea. If you have a position that's anything other than a gut feeling, I've yet to be made aware of it.

High, no. several years ago, I used to use it every night. One bong hit as a sleeping aid. Works great for me.

Which closes the case. You're into the high, not into the medicinal use of it. The argument for legalization for medical reasons has nothing to do with getting high, and you've only argued for the getting high aspect. Many drugs are legal by prescription only. Why don't you argue for their full legalization? Easy, because it doesn't benefit you. What benefit exists for the legalization of marijuana for recreational purposes? Taxation? If that's it, is the goal of a free society to tax itself into bankruptcy?

Since you cherry pick questions to answer, I doubt I'll ever get anything resembling a coherent response on most of the points I've made.

I first smoked it in the 70's when you could get good rolling weed for $20/oz and good bud for $40 to $55/oz. Even getting stoned, the effects are not as bad as alcohol, and it isn't addictive.
And look at you now, cyberstalking young girls.

Wild Cobra

12-22-2013, 03:50 PM

LOL...

DMC has a bug up his ass...

DMC

12-22-2013, 06:59 PM

LOL...

DMC has a bug up his ass...

You should be able to tell me the genus and species, from your gut feeling, right?

Wild Cobra

12-22-2013, 08:35 PM

You should be able to tell me the genus and species, from your gut feeling, right?
Maybe you don't, but I have better things to do with my time than do searches to satisfy your trolling.

I stand corrected on one thing however. It's a spur up your ass. Not a bug.

DMC

12-22-2013, 10:32 PM

Maybe you don't, but I have better things to do with my time than do searches to satisfy your trolling.

I stand corrected on one thing however. It's a spur up your ass. Not a bug.

Like searches for flag lots until you find the one where the shadow matches the photo so you can send your target the information to secure her fear.

AchillesHeel

12-23-2013, 03:45 AM

LOL...

DMC has a bug up his ass...

DMC just took a huge dump on your face, bro.

BigZak

12-23-2013, 10:20 AM

i might keep using...i'm just not gonna smoke it no more. that smoke....worse than cigarettes.

Wild Cobra

12-23-2013, 11:34 AM

DMC just took a huge dump on your face, bro.
I'm surprised you were able to express that with his dick so deep down your throat!

Bill_Brasky

12-23-2013, 12:00 PM

The Stalking

AchillesHeel

12-23-2013, 12:13 PM

I'm surprised you were able to express that with his dick so deep down your throat!

I don't type with my mouth, bruh

clambake

12-23-2013, 12:16 PM

I'm surprised you were able to express that with his dick so deep down your throat!

i love it when people express what they're thinking about.

Wild Cobra

12-23-2013, 11:47 PM

I don't type with my mouth, bruh

So you admit it!

boutons_deux

12-24-2013, 01:48 PM

The Media Should Stop Pretending Marijuana's Risks Are a Mystery -- The Science Is Clear

Kleiman’s allegation—that the marijuana plant and its effects on society still remains largely a mystery—is a fairly common refrain. But it is far from accurate.

Despite the US government's nearly century-long prohibition of the plant, cannabis is nonetheless one of the most investigated therapeutically active substances in history. To date, there are over 20,000 published studies or reviews in the scientific literature referencing the cannabis plant and its cannabinoids, nearly half of which were published within the last five years according to a keyword search on PubMed Central, the US government repository for peer-reviewed scientific research. Over 1,450 peer-reviewed papers were published in 2013 alone. (By contrast, a keyword search of "hydrocodone," a commonly prescribed painkiller, yields just over 600 total references in the entire body of available scientific literature.)

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/marijuana-one-most-scrupulously-researched-drugs-known-humanity-media-likes-pretend-pots?akid=11306.187590.ys5nXi&rd=1&src=newsletter939697&t=4

boutons_deux

12-24-2013, 01:49 PM

New York State Senator Rolls Out Bill Legalizing Marijuana Despite Governor Andrew Cuomo’s opposition, hopes are running "high". :lol

http://www.thenation.com/article/177645/new-york-state-senator-rolls-out-bill-legalizing-marijuana#

boutons_deux

12-24-2013, 01:50 PM

Washington Liquor Control Board No Longer Recommends Ban on Medical Marijuana Home Growing (http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/12/19/washington-liquor-control-board-no-longer-recommends-ban-on-medical-marijuana-home-growing/)http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/12/19/washington-liquor-control-board-no-longer-recommends-ban-on-medical-marijuana-home-growing/

JoeChalupa

12-27-2013, 09:17 AM

When my sister in law was sick she'd take a few hits so she'd have an appetite. Helped her greatly.