Back to Reality

[DMC]

As a Spurs fan, here's what you have:

1. Best coach in the league: Go to the forum for any other team in the league, you'll find at least one thread called "I wish we had coach Pop". That's because Pop has done more with less, longer and better than any coach in the history of the game. Sure there are more highly decorated coaches, but they've had the benefit of assembled talent that far surpasses what the Spurs have had. Other than Phil Jackson who had the lion's share of basketball talent in the league in the past 25 years or so including the GOAT and the most dominant paint presence since Wilt, no one has had more success than coach Pop. Great players don't flock to San Antonio, except in the post season to play against the Spurs. You could have Avery Johnson or Mike D'Antoni running some hybrid junk system and shitting on team chemistry. Instead you have the most respected face in the coaching game who's still coaching.

2. A 37 year old power forward who hasn't embarrassed you with his antics off the court or on the court. Couple that with being the greatest PF of all time, and top 3 PF in the game today especially if you consider the defensive end as well (which you must) and you have a serviceable big man that can give you 30 minutes a night, and if you think Tim couldn't have pulled 20 million a season for the next two years you're wrong. He just didn't. You decide why. You could have a Kevin Love who gives you huge offensive numbers but doesn't play a lick of defense, and your entire season would be spent in the trade and lottery threads.

3. One of the craftiest point guards in the league, and the best PG the Spurs have ever had. He's got his niche and it's scoring the ball. He's also got his flaws and that's court vision and developing trust in his teammates, but he will put his body on the line time in and time out to get to score or get to the line. He's the closest thing the Spurs have to a tabloid guy, and that's because he got inadvertently hit in the face with broken glass from an altercation he wasn't even involved in. Sure he has history that's not pretty with Brent, a former teammate, but that's about the depth of the drama for the entire roster. You could have Collison or Harris, playing a cheap, bastardized version of Parker/Rondo, and you'd probably be 15 - 20 games a year poorer. Sounds like a lot, but Tony is the engine for the team. There's no one else who can run it as easily.

4. You have an Argentinian guy name Manu who could still be a starter for any team in the league but he's accepted a 6th man role for almost his entire NBA career. He's not perfect, and he's aged as well, but compare him to what you could have as the 6th man. You could have a Nick Young, taking 9 threes a game and digging a deeper hole instead of filling it. He's the main reason the Spurs have the 2nd best bench in the league.

5. You have the 2nd best bench in the league. Forget the talk about the "plug and play" system. That's all bullshit. You have to have guys who can do what you need them to do, and who will do it. You have to have the front office talent to recognize those guys out of thousands of players in the world, and who can get those guys to come to your team, despite all naysayers. You have to be able to develop raw talent to be an asset to your team. You have to be able to get that one piece of gold from that huge chunk of otherwise useless rock, the same gold other teams couldn't mine. You have that ability and you've had it for 15 years. Don't take it for granted that it's your birthright. Your bench beat a 2nd round playoff team a couple nights ago, on their home floor.

6. You've never missed a playoffs, probably in your time as a Spurs fan. Some of you have, if you've been around a long time, but you've not missed many. You've always had a post season to discuss, good or bad, you've had it. Your team has been there so often that they are ignored by the media just as the rising of the sun isn't reported as "news". Still, you lament about the lack of coverage you get, as if you'd prefer to miss a few post seasons, get a good lottery pick, another coach who gets the CotY award for going from a 15 win season to a 50 win season again just to see him fired a couple years later ala Avery Johnson.

7. You've ushered in and out the Lakers era, and you've introduced the King to the Finals in the proper manner. You showed him again, years later, that the same core could still take his super "not one, not two..." team to a nervous hair thin finish. (2014 edit) *You ushered his ass back to Cleveland in grand fashion*. All this with the same anchor and the same captain. You did this against all pundit prediction, since you've been dismissed for at least 4 years as a serious contender, every year you're too old again.

You've had it all. It's going to end sooner or later, but you've had it all.

:whine:violin:cry:cry

[Robz4000]

DMC with the greatest reality check/truth bomb of the season :tu

[NRHector]

:toast

[HI-FI]

:toast
the goods.

[Arc]

it's sad someone has to write this when we're sitting on a 21-6 record

[polandprzem]

Now you have it, now you don't

[Man In Black]

Don't poke the zombie. Just when the Spurs are thought dead...they zombie up and keep coming.

[Baam]

it's sad someone has to write this when we're sitting on a 21-6 record

What's sad is reminiscing about the past constantly...

What matters is to know is we have a contender or not, Pop wants to know as well that's why he played a short rotation...

[Hoops Czar]

it's sad someone has to write this when we're sitting on a 21-6 record

Yeah, it's fun to beat bad teams badly then, lose to quality ones. It really helps to put that 21-6 record into perspective.

[Reck]

I just posted about certain fans not experiencing misery like some of the old folks with their team when they sucked.

Sure they bash players, coaches etc now when they seemingly have it all but once that's all over they're sure to realize what they've had and begin to regret and see things in a more appreciative way that they didn't before.

Good post.

[Brazil]

:cry but but It Still Hurts :cry

[boutons_deux]

it's sad someone has to write this when we're sitting on a 21-6 record

0-6 against playoff teams. The 21 W totally outweighed by the losses.

[jon123spurs]

10/10 great thread tbh.

[RD2191]

Ha, Gay.

[Aremid]

As a Spurs fan, here's what you have:

1. Best coach in the league: Go to the forum for any other team in the league, you'll find at least one thread called "I wish we had coach Pop". That's because Pop has done more with less, longer and better than any coach in the history of the game. Sure there are more highly decorated coaches, but they've had the benefit of assembled talent that far surpasses what the Spurs have had. Other than Phil Jackson who had the lion's share of basketball talent in the league in the past 25 years or so including the GOAT and the most dominant paint presence since Wilt, no one has had more success than coach Pop. Great players don't flock to San Antonio, except in the post season to play against the Spurs. You could have Avery Johnson or Mike D'Antoni running some hybrid junk system and shitting on team chemistry. Instead you have the most respected face in the coaching game who's still coaching.

2. A 37 year old power forward who hasn't embarrassed you with his antics off the court or on the court. Couple that with being the greatest PF of all time, and top 3 PF in the game today especially if you consider the defensive end as well (which you must) and you have a serviceable big man that can give you 30 minutes a night, and if you think Tim couldn't have pulled 20 million a season for the next two years you're wrong. He just didn't. You decide why. You could have a Kevin Love who gives you huge offensive numbers but doesn't play a lick of defense, and your entire season would be spent in the trade and lottery threads.

3. One of the craftiest point guards in the league, and the best PG the Spurs have ever had. He's got his niche and it's scoring the ball. He's also got his flaws and that's court vision and developing trust in his teammates, but he will put his body on the line time in and time out to get to score or get to the line. He's the closest thing the Spurs have to a tabloid guy, and that's because he got inadvertently hit in the face with broken glass from an altercation he wasn't even involved in. Sure he has history that's not pretty with Brent, a former teammate, but that's about the depth of the drama for the entire roster. You could have Collison or Harris, playing a cheap, bastardized version of Parker/Rondo, and you'd probably be 15 - 20 games a year poorer. Sounds like a lot, but Tony is the engine for the team. There's no one else who can run it as easily.

4. You have an Argentinian guy name Manu who could still be a starter for any team in the league but he's accepted a 6th man role for almost his entire NBA career. He's not perfect, and he's aged as well, but compare him to what you could have as the 6th man. You could have a Nick Young, taking 9 threes a game and digging a deeper hole instead of filling it. He's the main reason the Spurs have the 2nd best bench in the league.

5. You have the 2nd best bench in the league. Forget the talk about the "plug and play" system. That's all bullshit. You have to have guys who can do what you need them to do, and who will do it. You have to have the front office talent to recognize those guys out of thousands of players in the world, and who can get those guys to come to your team, despite all naysayers. You have to be able to develop raw talent to be an asset to your team. You have to be able to get that one piece of gold from that huge chunk of otherwise useless rock, the same gold other teams couldn't mine. You have that ability and you've had it for 15 years. Don't take it for granted that it's your birthright. Your bench beat a 2nd round playoff team a couple nights ago, on their home floor.

6. You've never missed a playoffs, probably in your time as a Spurs fan. Some of you have, if you've been around a long time, but you've not missed many. You've always had a post season to discuss, good or bad, you've had it. Your team has been there so often that they are ignored by the media just as the rising of the sun isn't reported as "news". Still, you lament about the lack of coverage you get, as if you'd prefer to miss a few post seasons, get a good lottery pick, another coach who gets the CotY award for going from a 15 win season to a 50 win season again just to see him fired a couple years later ala Avery Johnson.

7. You've ushered in and out the Lakers era, and you've introduced the King to the Finals in the proper manner. You showed him again, years later, that the same core could still take his super "not one, not two..." team to a nervous hair thin finish. All this with the same anchor and the same captain. You did this against all pundit prediction, since you've been dismissed for at least 4 years as a serious contender, every year you're too old again.

You've had it all. It's going to end sooner or later, but you've had it all.

:whine:violin:cry:cry

not good enough. When your talent, coaching, and FO are supposedly that good, you do everything you can to maximize these: :lobt:
}

im waiting...

[Blizzardwizard]

But, but... :cry

[Arc]

0-6 against playoff teams. The 21 W totally outweighed by the losses.

not really.

1. @ Portland - we lose to portland just about every year at portland whether they're bad or good. besides, it was the third game of the season, a b2b on the road, and portland's first home game. we lose that game 10/10.
2. @ OKC - good teams win games. they were at home. they won. plain and simple.
3. vs. Houston - second half of a b2b. same for houston, but we had to travel from orlando > san antonio. where as houston played at home the first game, which is a 20 minute walk away from san antonio. houston is decent, but not championship material. no b2b in playoffs, not worried. we'll get to see a rematch on christmas day.
4. vs. Pacers - good team. they beat us. it happens.
5. @ Clippers - parker got hurt, didn't play the rest of the game. without our best player and fourth quarter guy, did anyone expect us to pull a win out here?
6. vs. OKC - no leonard, and parker's first game back in which he looked rusty as hell. chimpbrook was hitting his jumpers making him unstoppable. we should've got blown out by 30 but somehow we stayed in the game for most of it.

i wonder if people would be slitting their wrists this badly if we had won the finals?

[DMC]

not really.

1. @ Portland - we lose to portland just about every year at portland whether they're bad or good. besides, it was the third game of the season, a b2b on the road, and portland's first home game. we lose that game 10/10.
2. @ OKC - good teams win games. they were at home. they won. plain and simple.
3. vs. Houston - second half of a b2b. same for houston, but we had to travel from orlando > san antonio. where as houston played at home the first game, which is a 20 minute walk away from san antonio. houston is decent, but not championship material. no b2b in playoffs, not worried. we'll get to see a rematch on christmas day.
4. vs. Pacers - good team. they beat us. it happens.
5. @ Clippers - parker got hurt, didn't play the rest of the game. without our best player and fourth quarter guy, did anyone expect us to pull a win out here?
6. vs. OKC - no leonard, and parker's first game back in which he looked rusty as hell. chimpbrook was hitting his jumpers making him unstoppable. we should've got blown out by 30 but somehow we stayed in the game for most of it.

i wonder if people would be slitting their wrists this badly if we had won the finals?

Sure, we've won it 4 times.

[Skull-1]

not good enough. When your talent, coaching, and FO are supposedly that good, you do everything you can to maximize these: :lobt:
}

im waiting...



^^^^^^^^^^^

[DMC]

0-6 against playoff teams. The 21 W totally outweighed by the losses.

So you'd rather be 6-21?

[DMC]

not good enough. When your talent, coaching, and FO are supposedly that good, you do everything you can to maximize these: :lobt:
}

im waiting...


^^^^^^^^^^^

They are considered to be that good because of their production. it's not speculation. 3 rings in 4 Finals appearances is maximizing a 57th and a 28th overall pick, imo.

[Darius Bieber]

1. Any coach in the NBA would be as good as Pop if they had such a tremendous team built in the early 2000s. Spurs were hella lucky to get Tim Duncan in the draft. If that didn't happen, there wouldn't be nearly as many trophies on display at the AT&T Center, with or without Popovich.

2. Tim Duncan's performance this year has staggered. We know he's old and can't expect much of him. He's missed so many chip shots a la Game 7 this year that it's getting somewhat worrying.

3. Parker has problems against guards of the West. Westbrook showed that last night, he's more athletic and way more powerful. Spurs were just lucky for the Westbrook injury last post-season.

4. Manu has been the bright spot this season so far. But since you have brought up the past in your post, I will too. He cost us the Finals in 2013. Easy as that.

5. 2nd best bench in the League? We have people CONSTANTLY bashing "Errors", Bonner, Joseph, Nando. They're wanting to give Thomas a chance because the team needs help. There's no real back up SF at all.

6. It's true, it's been a while since the Spurs missed the playoffs. But, I'm sure most people here would rather miss the playoffs and hope for a high pick than have 2011 with Memphis shitting on the Spurs all over again..

Have fun this season, because in a year or two the Spurs will be the next Bobcats/Jazz. No one's cliff-jumping, that's just how it is. Lakers went that way, Celtics as well. Just the rule of the game.

[Leetonidas]

Good post tbh. Spurfan is a very spoiled base, it's like people forget that the Spurs have more titles than every single team in the NBA except for the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. The first two have so many titles for obvious reasons and Chicago because they had the GOAT. Spurfan doesn't realize how insanely hard it is to win multiple titles in the NBA when you're not the Lakers and Celtics.

That being said, it is rather concerning to see the Spurs losing to every decent team. But still, tbe gnsf trying to rationalize the losses makes some good points. Houston will get raped by the Spurs in the playoffs, not even worried about that. Indiana is a great team and the best defensive team in the league, losing to them is nothing to be ashamed of or cliff jumping over. The game @ OKC didn't surprise me and the Clips game along with yesterday's, you had a different top 3 player out for both of those so it's not some kind of embarrassment to lose to the upper tier of teams in the league without your best players on the floor. The positives are Duncan is rounding into form, Ginobili has been playing much better ball this year than last, Parker is obviously coasting and trying not to punish his body too much, Beli is the truth, Diaw is playing with a purpose, and Mills has been a wonderful surprise this season. Leonard needs to progress a little more but I'm not too worried about that yet. The only one bothering me is Green, but he is a streaky son of a bitch and you know he's going to get hot at some point for a stretch, so we have to hope it's an important one.

Despite that the Spurs are still coasting at 21-6. I'll be more worried if the Spurs end the season going 0-4 against every good West team and 0-2 against every good East team. But they still haven't played as good as they can. Maybe I'm off but I truly believe most of them are eying the playoffs and a chance at redemption. The regular season is boring.

[TXstbobcat]

Great read. :toast

We won't truly appreciate what we have had over the past 20 years with this team until this spurs era is over.

[EVAY]

Thank you, DMC. Great write-up.

[Biernutz]

I remember 4 years ago when we were too old and to slow and the league had passed us by....

[Tuddy]

Adjustments over a 7 game series is why, if healthy, we'll get it done

[maurolv]

Thank you! :toast

[Juggity]

I have a hard time understanding how anyone could disagree with OP on this one. mother of all truth bombs.

[daslicer]

Spurs fans are spoiled and entitle they don't realize how good they have it. My home team is the bobcats and they have been crap for years. They have never had a great year in all the 10 years they have been around. Their fan base would die just to have the record the spurs have right now. Sure it sucks not being able to beat the top teams but keep things in perspective that this is a hard league to win in especially just to win 50 games consistently. Spur fans have been fortunate to have had a team that was above average for over 20 years minus the year Robinson was injured. Tanking doesn't guarantee that you will get a great pick just look at the bobcats they have tried it so many times but have failed miserably in what they have gotten. Winning a title would be great but just enjoy having a team that can win over 50 games because that won't be the case in few years when Duncan is retired. Trust me you will miss these days once the spurs are consistently a 20-30 win team.

[Aremid]

Spurs fans are spoiled and entitle they don't realize how good they have it. My home team is the bobcats and they have been crap for years. They have never had a great year in all the 10 years they have been around. Their fan base would die just to have the record the spurs have right now. Sure it sucks not being able to beat the top teams but keep things in perspective that this is a hard league to win in especially just to win 50 games consistently. Spur fans have been fortunate to have had a team that was above average for over 20 years minus the year Robinson was injured. Tanking doesn't guarantee that you will get a great pick just look at the bobcats they have tried it so many times but have failed miserably in what they have gotten. Winning a title would be great but just enjoy having a team that can win over 50 games because that won't be the case in few years when Duncan is retired. Trust me you will miss these days once the spurs are consistently a 20-30 win team.

It's not spoiled to question how your team is managed especially if there have been questionable decisions...

[DMC]

Good post tbh. Spurfan is a very spoiled base, it's like people forget that the Spurs have more titles than every single team in the NBA except for the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. The first two have so many titles for obvious reasons and Chicago because they had the GOAT. Spurfan doesn't realize how insanely hard it is to win multiple titles in the NBA when you're not the Lakers and Celtics.

That being said, it is rather concerning to see the Spurs losing to every decent team. But still, tbe gnsf trying to rationalize the losses makes some good points. Houston will get raped by the Spurs in the playoffs, not even worried about that. Indiana is a great team and the best defensive team in the league, losing to them is nothing to be ashamed of or cliff jumping over. The game @ OKC didn't surprise me and the Clips game along with yesterday's, you had a different top 3 player out for both of those so it's not some kind of embarrassment to lose to the upper tier of teams in the league without your best players on the floor. The positives are Duncan is rounding into form, Ginobili has been playing much better ball this year than last, Parker is obviously coasting and trying not to punish his body too much, Beli is the truth, Diaw is playing with a purpose, and Mills has been a wonderful surprise this season. Leonard needs to progress a little more but I'm not too worried about that yet. The only one bothering me is Green, but he is a streaky son of a bitch and you know he's going to get hot at some point for a stretch, so we have to hope it's an important one.

Despite that the Spurs are still coasting at 21-6. I'll be more worried if the Spurs end the season going 0-4 against every good West team and 0-2 against every good East team. But they still haven't played as good as they can. Maybe I'm off but I truly believe most of them are eying the playoffs and a chance at redemption. The regular season is boring.

As far as starting slow, I think the Spurs move in group lock step. They play as a team, they win and lose as a team, so it stands to reason they improve as a team. Other teams like OKC, often it's one star player that's in a slump that might cost them a game, or that star player that's on fire that scores 50 or pulls down 30 rebounds and it wins them a couple games against >.500 teams. With the Spurs, the entire game concept for them is to be stronger as a whole than the sum of their parts. That doesn't always happen right away (often doesn't happen right away in fact). The Rodeo Road Trip will be the time when the defense begins to gel and we'll know then, because that's when team chemistry is built. These guys probably don't see each other much in the off season, some not at all.

[DMC]

It's not spoiled to question how your team is managed especially if there have been questionable decisions...

It's naive when you don't understand team management however. Some deductive reasoning is needed to conclude that a coach who's as successful as Pop is going to make the best decisions for his team, and that those brief 48 minutes you get to see players actually playing is only a sample of the endless hours Pop gets with them on and off the court. I trust he knows his players.

[Aremid]

As far as starting slow, I think the Spurs move in group lock step. They play as a team, they win and lose as a team, so it stands to reason they improve as a team. Other teams like OKC, often it's one star player that's in a slump that might cost them a game, or that star player that's on fire that scores 50 or pulls down 30 rebounds and it wins them a couple games against >.500 teams. With the Spurs, the entire game concept for them is to be stronger as a whole than the sum of their parts. That doesn't always happen right away (often doesn't happen right away in fact). The Rodeo Road Trip will be the time when the defense begins to gel and we'll know then, because that's when team chemistry is built. These guys probably don't see each other much in the off season, some not at all.

When was the last time a "team" won a championship? Detroit in 04, nearly a decade ago. The nba has changed. This is the super team era and players that can take over games w superb 1 on 1 play bring in the rings, not "system ball."

[DMC]

When was the last time a "team" won a championship? Detroit in 04, nearly a decade ago. The nba has changed. This is the super team era and players that can take over games w superb 1 on 1 play bring in the rings, not "system ball."

Who took over games in 2007?

Is basketball offense only? I was under the impression that defense wins championships.

[TheGoldStandard]

Who took over games in 2007?

Is basketball offense only? I was under the impression that defense wins championships.

Tony averaged 24/5/3 that series and out worked a one man Cleveland team. Manu and Horry are responsible for 2005, Duncan 2003

[DMC]

Tony averaged 24/5/3 that series and out worked a one man Cleveland team. Manu and Horry are responsible for 2005, Duncan 2003

That doesn't make Tony a fortress at the other end. Basketball has a full court, and the team has to play at both ends. It doesn't matter if Tony scores 100 points if the other team still wins.

[TheGoldStandard]

That doesn't make Tony a fortress at the other end. Basketball has a full court, and the team has to play at both ends. It doesn't matter if Tony scores 100 points if the other team still wins.

2007 Cavs were spectators or witnesses to LeBron dominating unathletic teams in the east. Now we look like the unathletic team hoping team ball will beat a star athlete driven league

[Aremid]

That doesn't make Tony a fortress at the other end. Basketball has a full court, and the team has to play at both ends. It doesn't matter if Tony scores 100 points if the other team still wins.

You're right, and we had an all-star caliber defender in Bruce Bowen. Not to mention Duncan who played both sides of the court... Kinda like lebron?

[DMC]

You're right, and we had an all-star caliber defender in Bruce Bowen.

So then it wasn't the 1 on 1 play of Tony Parker. Sounds like a team thing.

[DMC]

2007 Cavs were spectators or witnesses to LeBron dominating unathletic teams in the east. Now we look like the unathletic team hoping team ball will beat a star athlete driven league

Except you're discounting the statistics that show speed, quickness, accuracy and decision making. James White is athletic, as is Ayres, fwiw.

[Juggity]

When was the last time a "team" won a championship? Detroit in 04, nearly a decade ago. The nba has changed. This is the super team era and players that can take over games w superb 1 on 1 play bring in the rings, not "system ball."

If the NBA has changed as you say, and "teams" cannot win championships, then it's clear you're suggesting that that the spurs cannot win as currently constructed. They aren't a "super team" in the sense of having 3 top-20 players in the game like the Heat or Thunder. But how do you reconcile that with the fact that the spurs came 1 rebound away from a championship? Or the fact that the Pacers (another "team" in the sense you've defined) were similarly close to overcoming the Heat in the ECF last year?

Further, what is your suggested course of action for the spurs? Who do you want them to acquire? Or are you ready to blow the team up?

[TheGoldStandard]

Except you're discounting the statistics that show speed, quickness, accuracy and decision making. James White is athletic, as is Ayres, fwiw.

James white is not a star. I'm talking about players who actually shape a franchise. We can agree that there are only 2 trams in the East that are real contenders and no amount of team ball is going to out do Miami as long as LeBron is there. Same thing in the west there are two or three teams that we know will compete for a shot at the title. Looking at the spurs we lean on Duncan, parker and Manu because those are our star players and it's those guys when it comes down to critical moments, series deciding moments that we need them to come thru. Team ball gets us thru the regular season but having star caliber players gets you thru the playoffs. Last year Duncan turned back the clock and bailed us out of a lot of those sticky situations same with parker.

[DMC]

James white is not a star. I'm talking about players who actually shape a franchise. We can agree that there are only 2 trams in the East that are real contenders and no amount of team ball is going to out do Miami as long as LeBron is there. Same thing in the west there are two or three teams that we know will compete for a shot at the title. Looking at the spurs we lean on Duncan, parker and Manu because those are our star players and it's those guys when it comes down to critical moments, series deciding moments that we need them to come thru. Team ball gets us thru the regular season but having star caliber players gets you thru the playoffs. Last year Duncan turned back the clock and bailed us out of a lot of those sticky situations same with parker.
Now you're moving goalposts.

So the Pacers are contenders but not because they play team ball? What excuse will you use when a team does beat the Heat with team play? Do you think the Heat don't play team ball?

[TheGoldStandard]

Now you're moving goalposts.

So the Pacers are contenders but not because they play team ball? What excuse will you use when a team does beat the Heat with team play? Do you think the Heat don't play team ball?

I'm saying that if Paul George or hibbert aren't there they are among the fodder of the east. If LeBron were off Miami they'd be less significant. I hate the guy but LeBron is just flat out a beast and carried Cleveland with nobody to multiple conference championship games and a finals and they fell off when he left.

[Aremid]

If the NBA has changed as you say, and "teams" cannot win championships, then it's clear you're suggesting that that the spurs cannot win as currently constructed. They aren't a "super team" in the sense of having 3 top-20 players in the game like the Heat or Thunder. But how do you reconcile that with the fact that the spurs came 1 rebound away from a championship? Or the fact that the Pacers (another "team" in the sense you've defined) were similarly close to overcoming the Heat in the ECF last year?

Further, what is your suggested course of action for the spurs? Who do you want them to acquire? Or are you ready to blow the team up?

So did the Spurs or Pacers beat the Heat last year?

Close doesn't count. The best example I can give you about talent winning out over system ball is Ray Allen vs Danny Green. Ray Allen has always been an all star shooter who was crucial in Boston's title run and finals return in 2010. Danny Green was glued to the bench in Cleveland and benefitted from Pop's system here. Ask any coach or gym or player which player (green or Allen) you want shooting the game tying 3 in game 6 of the NBA finals. Talent wins out every time.

As as far as course of action, I think the offense needs to run through kawai with tony as your second scorer. I think bonner draft picks Danny green need to be traded for a guy like Amir Johnson who is that stretch four who can bang and play good D. We need more toughness and a guy like meta world peace who isn't afraid to back down from anybody. This would be a good start.

[DMC]

I'm saying that if Paul George or hibbert aren't there they are among the fodder of the east. If LeBron were off Miami they'd be less significant. I hate the guy but LeBron is just flat out a beast and carried Cleveland with nobody to multiple conference championship games and a finals and they fell off when he left.

I don't get your point. If a team doesn't have good players it won't win? Is that it?

[DMC]

So did the Spurs or Pacers beat the Heat last year?

Close doesn't count. The best example I can give you about talent winning out over system ball is Ray Allen vs Danny Green. Ray Allen has always been an all star shooter who was crucial in Boston's title run and finals return in 2010. Danny Green was glued to the bench in Cleveland and benefitted from Pop's system here. Ask any coach or gym or player which player (green or Allen) you want shooting the game tying 3 in game 6 of the NBA finals. Talent wins out every time.

As as far as course of action, I think the offense needs to run through kawai with tony as your second scorer. I think bonner draft picks Danny green need to be traded for a guy like Amir Johnson who is that stretch four who can bang and play good D. We need more toughness and a guy like meta world peace who isn't afraid to back down from anybody. This would be a good start.

It does count. Just ask the ticket offices.

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't get your point. If a team doesn't have good players it won't win? Is that it?

I'm saying that great players win championships not team ball. I'd rather roll with the 2003 Spurs than the 2013 Spurs.

[Aremid]

I don't get your point. If a team doesn't have good players it won't win? Is that it?

I think what he is trying to say is that if you have a team of decent role players who play awesome team ball, they will not defeat a team of superstars who play decent team ball. Ie jazz vs bulls

[Cry Havoc]

Spurs could go 75-7 in this season and you've had people with IQs under 70 still using those 7 losses to provide evidence for why the team will get swept in the first round by someone like Phoenix.

[DMC]

Spurs could go 75-7 in this season and you've had people with IQs under 70 still using those 7 losses to provide evidence for why the team will get swept in the first round by someone like Phoenix.

The tendency for that to grab traction is what makes coming up here and dropping calculated shit bombs so profitable.

[DMC]

I'm saying that great players win championships not team ball. I'd rather roll with the 2003 Spurs than the 2013 Spurs.

2003 had Tim Duncan only. No other "great" players.

A more accurate statement, for you, would have been "someone has to step up in the post season for the team to have success". That's where superstars are born. Just like how people now use Manu and Tony to say the Spurs had all stars for the 2003 Finals, people will use Paul George for last season. He made his name in the off season, where real stars are born. That's why Kevin Love gets shit on by everyone other than Wolves fans. He he put those numbers up in the post season, that would change things. Dirk has established himself as the man because of his post season performance in 2011.

[TheGoldStandard]

2003 had Tim Duncan only. No other "great" players.

A more accurate statement, for you, would have been "someone has to step up in the post season for the team to have success". That's where superstars are born. Just like how people now use Manu and Tony to say the Spurs had all stars for the 2003 Finals, people will use Paul George for last season. He made his name in the off season, where real stars are born. That's why Kevin Love gets shit on by everyone other than Wolves fans. He he put those numbers up in the post season, that would change things. Dirk has established himself as the man because of his post season performance in 2011.

Yes 2003 had Tim only but he was far and away the best player in the NBA that year. You could put a series or 2 on his back and he would come thru. We didn't have a system that relied on average role players to make every shot when playoff pressure was on, no our system was Tim.

[ElNono]

I'm saying that great players win championships not team ball. I'd rather roll with the 2003 Spurs than the 2013 Spurs.

We have great players. We try to make up the negatives of aging with perhaps the best system in the league. Tony Parker might not be an All Star because he's less popular tha CP3 (and AllStar voting is a popularity contest after all), but he certainly plays like one*. Tim Duncan is still a top 3-4 bigman in the league. Gino leads one of the best benches in the NBA. We're not going to be the 2003 Spurs, but we're still a damn good team. The league isn't 2003 either. There's no young Nowitzki, Nash in his prime, dominant Shaq, T-Mac and Vince Carter, Iverson... there's still superb talent, but it's a bit watered down. The Spurs just need to be competitive with the top teams, and in general they are.

* when not coasting

[ElNono]

Yes 2003 had Tim only but he was far and away the best player in the NBA that year. You could put a series or 2 on his back and he would come thru. We didn't have a system that relied on average role players to make every shot when playoff pressure was on, no our system was Tim.

Tim was just as good in 2004 and we didn't make it. We all would like to have Lebron now, but he can only play for one team. I don't think all the other 29 teams need to pack it up. Sure, the odds might be better if you have him, but he still need role players to come through. You know, the Chalmers, Allen, Battier...

[TheGoldStandard]

Tim was just as good in 2004 and we didn't make it. We all would like to have Lebron now, but he can only play for one team. I don't think all the other 29 teams need to pack it up. Sure, the odds might be better if you have him, but he still need role players to come through. You know, the Chalmers, Allen, Battier...

If not for .4 :bang It was Tim who only seconds prior hit the would be game winner. We had that series but we melted down. We have a good team, we have "star" talent but we don't have that one guy who can just take over a game consistently when we need to gut out a win. Parker is the closest thing we have and the elite teams know how to deal with him in the pick n roll which frustrates him. I hope that Kawhi starts putting the ball on the floor more and driving, creating contact and at least getting the respect of the refs so he can get calls but he's not quite there yet. Spurs are a great jump shooting team but OKC, Portland, Indy and Miami have the length to stay at home with the shooters and they can play small lineups which are athletic enough to switch and rotate to defend the pick n roll and alter shots.

[Sean Cagney]

Yeah, it's fun to beat bad teams badly then, lose to quality ones. It really helps to put that 21-6 record into perspective.

Do you every say anything positive about the Spurs?

That being said this thread is dead on here, agreed. DMC with the GOODS.

[ElNono]

If not for .4 :bang It was Tim who only seconds prior hit the would be game winner. We had that series but we melted down. We have a good team, we have "star" talent but we don't have that one guy who can just take over a game consistently when we need to gut out a win. Parker is the closest thing we have and the elite teams know how to deal with him in the pick n roll which frustrates him. I hope that Kawhi starts putting the ball on the floor more and driving, creating contact and at least getting the respect of the refs so he can get calls but he's not quite there yet. Spurs are a great jump shooting team but OKC, Portland, Indy and Miami have the length to stay at home with the shooters and they can play small lineups which are athletic enough to switch and rotate to defend the pick n roll and alter shots.

Portland is a mirage, IMO. They're not even top 10 on defense, when the offense slows down and their hot shooting cools down, they're done. I'm not even sure they make it to the 2nd round depending on the matchup, tbh. The Spurs are working towards being as good a team as last season or better. If they can get there, then I think they can battle any of the other three. I still have a lot of questions about the non-Harden OKC. Miami is good and so is Indy, but we're only gonna play one of them for all the marbles if we get that far, so it's rather pointless to worry about both.

[TheGoldStandard]

Portland is a mirage, IMO. They're not even top 10 on defense, when the offense slows down and their hot shooting cools down, they're done. I'm not even sure they make it to the 2nd round depending on the matchup, tbh. The Spurs are working towards being as good a team as last season or better. If they can get there, then I think they can battle any of the other three. I still have a lot of questions about the non-Harden OKC. Miami is good and so is Indy, but we're only gonna play one of them for all the marbles if we get that far, so it's rather pointless to worry about both.

Portland doesn't play a great brand of defense but they rebound very well and they pass the ball and create good shot opportunities which can help when games slow down and they have to grind it out in the half court. Can't speculate on who they could face off but if the playoffs started today they for sure beat the Nuggets and who knows how they'd fair against Houston/LAC but still difficult to win in Portland. I think the Spurs have an opportunity to get better and they will improve but some of these games they really have to treat it as if it were a playoff game, test these teams. I don't think OKC is a pretender, they shoot a lot of jump shots but if we have to play them at home, it becomes that much harder to win on the road with that crowd and the refs.

[DMC]

Yes 2003 had Tim only but he was far and away the best player in the NBA that year. You could put a series or 2 on his back and he would come thru. We didn't have a system that relied on average role players to make every shot when playoff pressure was on, no our system was Tim.

But he wasn't a one on one player.

[TampaDude]

If not for .4 :bang It was Tim who only seconds prior hit the would be game winner.

2003: Championship
2004: .4 bullshit late clock shot (Fisher)
2005: Championship
2006: Stupid Manu foul on Dirk
2007: Championship
2008: Busted airplane and Joey Crawford screwjob on Brent Barry (Fisher again)

Spurs could easily have 6 or 7 already. But, such is life in the NBA. If not for the Horry hipcheck, who knows if we get past the Suns in '07?

Yes, we Spurs fans are spoiled...we expect titles every year, and forget just how freaking GOOD the Spurs have been over the past 15 seasons...especially for a small-market team. Oh, BTW, make that 16...NFW we don't win 50 games this season...we're going to at least the WCF, and probably the Finals, again.

GO SPURS GO!!!!!

[testies]

lol people are retarded.. you guys think the system/tactics aren't a huge part of success, just players? imagine a team with leonard,green, old duncan, splitter in the hands of any other coach practically winning a ring

[ThaBigFundamental21]

So you'd rather be 6-21?

Honestly, fuckin good counter. This is the first time I really put our record into perspective. While I'm really happy to be right near the top in terms of W-L, I was furious the other night when we blew it against OKC. Also all the other losses against top teams. Great post. I think we all believe San Antonio will start cooking in the last quarter of this season. It doesn't make sense for a team led by a trio of aging stars to grind out every game every night...the season is a marathon not a sprint.

[Prime Time]

Here was San Antonio's rotation in 2009..
PG: Tony Parker
SG: Roger Mason Jr.
SF: Michael Finely
PF: Matt Bonner
C: Tim Duncan
6th: Manu Ginobili* (Always injured)
7th: Drew Gooden
8th: Ime Udoka
9th: Kurt Thomas
10th: George Hill

This is pretty much what I had to deal with when I first became a fan. Sure Parker was playing like a straight-out superstar, but damn - the role players were terrible.
Think about that for a second.. Now think about adding an athletic 6'6" wing who can block shots in transition while guarding all of those pesky smaller guards (Stephen Curry would have shitted on that '09 Spurs team. Hell, the entire 2012 Warriors roster would have man-handled them.) Also, this said player can light it UP from three. Would Roger Mason ever break the record for most made threes in the finals?

Imagine having a mobile 6'11" player who can guard on the perimeter while defending shots inside. Not to mention his movement without the ball is lethal, as he sets a mean pick while getting open in the paint.

Imagine having an athletic small-forward who can guard LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant, and all of the premier small-forwards in the game. But it doesn't stop there, this particular small-forward is also a good shooter, terrific rebounder, and one of the best at contesting passes. And lastly, He can step up for the big three whenever they sit out by putting up 20/10 games.

Then there's a bench where San Antonio has a play-making guard who leads the league in three-point percentage, a smart forward who has an strong post-presence both offensively and defensively (also a great passer), a back-up point guard who is extremely active on both ends, and best of all - Matt Bonner is glued to the end of the bench.

Think about how much Spurs have improved compared to 4 years ago. Then realize how stubborn all of you truly are, whining about a 22-6 record. :lmao

[DMC]

Honestly, fuckin good counter. This is the first time I really put our record into perspective. While I'm really happy to be right near the top in terms of W-L, I was furious the other night when we blew it against OKC. Also all the other losses against top teams. Great post. I think we all believe San Antonio will start cooking in the last quarter of this season. It doesn't make sense for a team led by a trio of aging stars to grind out every game every night...the season is a marathon not a sprint.

I believe the Spurs play at a more consistent level than any team in the league. They don't have the best players, so if another team has good fortune where injuries are concerned, and they get some luck in matchups, the Spurs are a 2nd round team. Throw in some injuries from rosters that have piss poor time management and you start tilting the scales back toward the Spurs because they manage minutes and minimize injuries because of it. They still have their share, but a 30m a night guy is 25% less likely to be injured than a 40m a night guy. Factor in fatigue and the odds are even greater the higher minute usage guy gets injured. Some injuries like that to Russell are just freak accidents. I don't think Kobe's was however, I think it was a combination of things. Same with his latest one.

So when you filter all that down you get instances where the Spurs make it through the gauntlet because the other team cannot compete at full strength. Then we get a shot at a ring. Otherwise, we are still a playoff team because the league is so bottom heavy that the top few teams can feast on them. That puts the Spurs in the mix every year, and teams that aren't there year in and year out often could have been if they didn't make moves to either cut costs or attempt to improve and sometimes it costs them. Look at these teams with long term injuries to star players that would be taking playoff spots from other teams were they healthy.

The Spurs aren't good enough to beat the best in the league, but they are good enough to draft behind those teams until one of them blows a tire.

[lefty]

As a Spurs fan, here's what you have:

1. Best coach in the league: Go to the forum for any other team in the league, you'll find at least one thread called "I wish we had coach Pop". That's because Pop has done more with less, longer and better than any coach in the history of the game. Sure there are more highly decorated coaches, but they've had the benefit of assembled talent that far surpasses what the Spurs have had. Other than Phil Jackson who had the lion's share of basketball talent in the league in the past 25 years or so including the GOAT and the most dominant paint presence since Wilt, no one has had more success than coach Pop. Great players don't flock to San Antonio, except in the post season to play against the Spurs. You could have Avery Johnson or Mike D'Antoni running some hybrid junk system and shitting on team chemistry. Instead you have the most respected face in the coaching game who's still coaching.

2. A 37 year old power forward who hasn't embarrassed you with his antics off the court or on the court. Couple that with being the greatest PF of all time, and top 3 PF in the game today especially if you consider the defensive end as well (which you must) and you have a serviceable big man that can give you 30 minutes a night, and if you think Tim couldn't have pulled 20 million a season for the next two years you're wrong. He just didn't. You decide why. You could have a Kevin Love who gives you huge offensive numbers but doesn't play a lick of defense, and your entire season would be spent in the trade and lottery threads.

3. One of the craftiest point guards in the league, and the best PG the Spurs have ever had. He's got his niche and it's scoring the ball. He's also got his flaws and that's court vision and developing trust in his teammates, but he will put his body on the line time in and time out to get to score or get to the line. He's the closest thing the Spurs have to a tabloid guy, and that's because he got inadvertently hit in the face with broken glass from an altercation he wasn't even involved in. Sure he has history that's not pretty with Brent, a former teammate, but that's about the depth of the drama for the entire roster. You could have Collison or Harris, playing a cheap, bastardized version of Parker/Rondo, and you'd probably be 15 - 20 games a year poorer. Sounds like a lot, but Tony is the engine for the team. There's no one else who can run it as easily.

4. You have an Argentinian guy name Manu who could still be a starter for any team in the league but he's accepted a 6th man role for almost his entire NBA career. He's not perfect, and he's aged as well, but compare him to what you could have as the 6th man. You could have a Nick Young, taking 9 threes a game and digging a deeper hole instead of filling it. He's the main reason the Spurs have the 2nd best bench in the league.

5. You have the 2nd best bench in the league. Forget the talk about the "plug and play" system. That's all bullshit. You have to have guys who can do what you need them to do, and who will do it. You have to have the front office talent to recognize those guys out of thousands of players in the world, and who can get those guys to come to your team, despite all naysayers. You have to be able to develop raw talent to be an asset to your team. You have to be able to get that one piece of gold from that huge chunk of otherwise useless rock, the same gold other teams couldn't mine. You have that ability and you've had it for 15 years. Don't take it for granted that it's your birthright. Your bench beat a 2nd round playoff team a couple nights ago, on their home floor.

6. You've never missed a playoffs, probably in your time as a Spurs fan. Some of you have, if you've been around a long time, but you've not missed many. You've always had a post season to discuss, good or bad, you've had it. Your team has been there so often that they are ignored by the media just as the rising of the sun isn't reported as "news". Still, you lament about the lack of coverage you get, as if you'd prefer to miss a few post seasons, get a good lottery pick, another coach who gets the CotY award for going from a 15 win season to a 50 win season again just to see him fired a couple years later ala Avery Johnson.

7. You've ushered in and out the Lakers era, and you've introduced the King to the Finals in the proper manner. You showed him again, years later, that the same core could still take his super "not one, not two..." team to a nervous hair thin finish. All this with the same anchor and the same captain. You did this against all pundit prediction, since you've been dismissed for at least 4 years as a serious contender, every year you're too old again.

You've had it all. It's going to end sooner or later, but you've had it all.

:whine:violin:cry:cry

1. Pop is great, but that doesnt excuse his fuck ups that have costed us series/titles; and TBH he is only part of the equation; the GMs deserve credit as well, and most importantly the players; Prime Duncan carried Pop to multiple titles.

2. Agreed

3. Best PG in the SPurs history; I agree; but it's not like the SPurs had grat PG's before; Tony is a beta male who cost us games by Kirbying; he is at his best when he plays his beta male role
TDMVPDPOY got banned from here because people couldn't handle the thermonuclear truth bombs

4. Agreed (still, fuck him for game 6)

5. Agreed

6. Agreed

7. Agreed

[Horse]

Yeah, it's fun to beat bad teams badly then, lose to quality ones. It really helps to put that 21-6 record into perspective.
Why the fuck would a cavs fan comment on anything basketball related? High pick after high pick bynum. You still suck balls and always will.

[hitmantb]

Only agree with 1, Pop is amazing in hiding the weakness of his roster and producing results, and thanks to Danny Green possessed and turned into finals MVP candidate for five games, Spurs almost had it. But all things being equal you need talent to win. The Spurs roster is way overrated.

Duncan is nowhere near Love at this stage of his career. Heck Love, Aldridge and Nowwitsky are all better than him at this point. He is much much better than Robinson in 2003 of course, but unfortunately he doesn't have the luxury of playing along side #1 player in the league at the time to carry him, he has Splitter . . . The fact that Spurs need him to score consistently against the likes of Ibaka in the post to open up shooters does not bode well. Game 6 I had tears in my eyes seeing him turning back into 2003 Duncan for a half, but it is simply not sustainable at this point and Spurs is asking way too much from a 37 years old.

Tony Parker is the best player Spurs have, consider all positions he is not even top 10 in the league and that is not what you can win a title with against Lebron/Durant in their prime.

The reality is just not enough talent to win it all if every team is at full strength. Unless we get another Danny Green type of break out this year, Spurs won't make it past second round with decline to Duncan and Parker.

[DMC]

I said...

[exstatic]

Wow. Gold-plated, bitch made bads, all up in this thread.

[RD2191]

Ha, Gay.
:wakeup

[UZER]

I said...

Was this part of the throw everything at the wall so you're never wrong shtick?

[DMC]

Was this part of the throw everything at the wall so you're never wrong shtick?

Small part

[100%duncan]

Nice edit

[ElNono]

Portland is a mirage, IMO. They're not even top 10 on defense, when the offense slows down and their hot shooting cools down, they're done. I'm not even sure they make it to the 2nd round depending on the matchup, tbh. The Spurs are working towards being as good a team as last season or better. If they can get there, then I think they can battle any of the other three. I still have a lot of questions about the non-Harden OKC. Miami is good and so is Indy, but we're only gonna play one of them for all the marbles if we get that far, so it's rather pointless to worry about both.

Damn, I need to post more, tbh...

too easy to be a debbie downer... you always have the better odds...

winning it all is tough as fuck, even when you have a great team...better enjoy this historical run, and hope for the best...

[scanry]

^ Nono, we still have a good run left in us. I don't think appreciating our past runs will do any good. We'll have plenty of time to dwell on once the run ends tbh.

I remember Sebastian Vettel in Formula 1 repeatedly reminding his team to appreciate the accomplishments and their successful run. A year later, he's getting his ass handed to him by Riccardo (a near rookie). The team is still very succesful despite Mercedes dominant car.

[ElNono]

^ Nono, we still have a good run left in us. I don't think appreciating our past runs will do any good. We'll have plenty of time to dwell on once the run ends tbh.

I remember Sebastian Vettel in Formula 1 repeatedly reminding his team to appreciate the accomplishments and their successful run. A year later, he's getting his ass handed to him by Riccardo (a near rookie). The team is still very succesful despite Mercedes dominant car.

On paper, sure. But there are a lot of variables that go into it that are not necessarily under our control. Health obviously being the primary one, but others as well... it's heartwarming to bask in the glory of our dominant playoff run, but we were one Diaw/Gino 3 point miss, or a Kawhi steal away from potentially sulking about "another lost season" and "Duncan deserves better"... You want to help your luck, and having a great team, like we do, helps with that, but it's not a given. It never is.

[spurraider21]

On paper, sure. But there are a lot of variables that go into it that are not necessarily under our control. Health obviously being the primary one, but others as well... it's heartwarming to bask in the glory of our dominant playoff run, but we were one Diaw/Gino 3 point miss, or a Kawhi steal away from potentially sulking about "another lost season" and "Duncan deserves better"... You want to help your luck, and having a great team, like we do, helps with that, but it's not a given. It never is.

nonsense we're winning b2b for sure BOOK IT

[ElNono]

:lol...

[TampaDude]

SASB2B2015, bitches! :hat