Anyone else disliking pop's defensive scheme?

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Tbh It's getting kind of annoying watching the spurs "pack the paint and pray they miss". I mean it works against teams like the grizzlies but with more and more teams becoming more leathal from midrange and 3 don't you think pop would change it up a bit and just make every one stick to their man? Tbh just shut everyone else down and let durant and westbrook work for everything 1 on 1. If they make tough shots than so be it at least your not letting every one else get involved.

[TheGoldStandard]

Pop doesn't care about defense in December.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

And iirc thats just what the Spurs did in games 1 & 2 of the 12 wcf. they let harden, durant and westbrook combine for over 90pts in those games yet they still won. it was until the Spurs started leaving their role players wide open is when shit hit the fan.

[td4mvp2k]

Lol TP cant even paly scheme d n u want him to play 1 on 1... :td

[TheGoldStandard]

And iirc thats just what the Spurs did in games 1 & 2 of the 12 wcf. they let harden, durant and westbrook combine for over 90pts in those games yet they still won. it was until the Spurs started leaving their role players wide open is when shit hit the fan.

Pop believed like many on ST do that roleplayers can't catch fire and hold onto it which was was Ibaka did in 2012 for a series.

[DesignatedT]

Pop has shown multiple times that he will change his defensive game plan from series to series in the playoffs. He adjusted against Golden State last year and will continue to mold his scheme around the personnel he is playing against. This is the regular season and the month of December. There's very little scouting going on right now when it comes to opponents.

[TheGoldStandard]

The only teams that will be difficult for the spurs are OKC, Indiana and Miami. They can score and play defense.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Pop has shown multiple times that he will change his defensive game plan from series to series in the playoffs. He adjusted against Golden State last year and will continue to mold his scheme around the personnel he is playing against. This is the regular season and the month of December.
Yes pop will make changes but I still haven't seen any for OKC in the past 2 years. It's still pack the paint and pray they miss. it's getting kinda old.

[DesignatedT]

Yes pop will make changes but I still haven't seen any for OKC in the past 2 years. It's still pack the paint and pray they miss. it's getting kinda old.

Not saying he has some secret game plan worked up already for a possible OKC playoff matchup, but if he did... why would he show his cards in a meaningless regular season game?

[TheGoldStandard]

Yes pop will make changes but I still haven't seen any for OKC in the past 2 years. It's still pack the paint and pray they miss. it's getting kinda old.

Jeff Ayres, notice how he didn't play yesterday

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Not saying he has some secret game plan worked up already for a possible OKC playoff matchup, but if he did... why would he show his cards in a meaningless regular season game?
I mean it's not like defensive basketball scheme's are so secretive... so why not just throw out a little man to man...you know. I mean he played a little zone for a series and even tried throwing a double team at durant last night. so why not try it. It's not like showing your cards matters anyway the thunder have been showing their cards for 2+ years now and the spurs still havent been able to figure it out.

[DMC]

You cannot defend everyone all the time. You have to defend the paint. If you cannot, you're fucked from the start. If they are shooting from outside, you can get a hand up, but you have to live with long range attempts. That's what you hope they settle for.

Look at Spurs points allowed vs Portland points allowed. Portland is at 102 and the Spurs are in the mid 90s. That tells me the Spurs defense works.

[RD2191]

Pop doesn't know how to beat OKC.

[DAF86]

Pop's physolophy isn't to "pack the paint and hope for the miss". In fact the Spurs ae always one of the best teams at defending 3pt shots. Spurs' plan is to avoid 3's, layups and free throws.

[DAF86]

The problem with OKC is that they have some of the best midrange shooters in the league, which is the shot that the Spurs like to concede.

[Mikeanaro]

Im not pleased with Pop this season, dude is senile benching Duncan for nothing 28 seconds before the ring, 6 years and no finals made his brain rusty.
Right now everybody says COASTING TBH TBH TBH, but I remember when Pop hit the Panic Button against OKC... I guess he wasnt coasting then TBH TBH TBH TBH!

[RD2191]

We were hoping Lebron and Wade missed and they were until it really mattered. Shit hit the fan in Game 7 iirc.

[DMC]

Pop doesn't know how to beat OKC.

Judging by OKC's record, he's not alone.

[RD2191]

And why is it that someone on the other team is always wide open for a fucking 3? What kind of defense is that? Tired of seeing Green flying out to the 3 point line and jumping past the shooter only for the shooter to get out of the way and nail a 3.

[TheGoldStandard]

And why is it that someone on the other team is always wide open for a fucking 3? What kind of defense is that? Tired of seeing Green flying out to the 3 point line and jumping past the shooter only for the shooter to get out of the way and nail a 3.

Pop is hoping Danny Green will learn from it, see what he did to you Danny he faked his shot, took a dribble and then shot wide open.

[Mikeanaro]

And why is it that someone on the other team is always wide open for a fucking 3? What kind of defense is that? Tired of seeing Green flying out to the 3 point line and jumping past the shooter only for the shooter to get out of the way and nail a 3.
I dont know why Pop does that shit, solid Defense requires good physical shape and maybe he doesnt want to burn his players right now, but I saw slow ass spurs even in the playoffs, especially against OKC, dudes were roasted losing 4 in a row.

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs' philosophy is to allow mid-range jump shots rather than 3s and shots at the rim, it's a good strategy, tbh..

That's part of the reason the Spurs struggle against teams that have good shooting bigs, as we've seen over the past few years..OKC has Ibaka, the Blazers have Aldridge, etc..Blake Griffin killed the Spurs the other night by getting hot after he made a few shots from outside, but Griffin isn't a consistent shooter, so that wouldn't be something to worry about in a series..

The Spurs' worst matchups in the West are the Thunder, Blazers and maybe the Rockets for this reason, tbh..

[Hoops Czar]

Spurs' philosophy is to allow mid-range jump shots rather than 3s and shots at the rim, it's a good strategy, tb


That's part of the reason the Spurs struggle against teams that have good shooting bigs, as we've seen over the past few years..OKC has Ibaka, the Blazers have Aldridge, etc..Blake Griffin killed the Spurs the other night by getting hot after he made a few shots from outside, but Griffin isn't a consistent shooter, so that wouldn't be something to worry about in a series..

The Spurs' worst matchups in the West are the Thunder, Blazers and maybe the Rockets for this reason, tbh..

You're really going out on the limb with this post. This coming from a guy who said the Spurs would split their home and home with OKC.The Spurs lost to Portland because of Liliard. They lost to Houston because of Harden. They lost to OKC because of their ability to spread the floor and knock down open shot after open shot. They're getting beat by athletes, not because some big is knocking down a three once or twice. Ibaka was only 6-14 from the field and Aldridge carves up everyone.

The Spurs strategy is to allow mid range jumers and guard against shots at the rim and threes? They're 16th in the league at gaurding the three and those numbers balloon when they play against good three pount shooting teams. The strategy may be sound, but the execution is weak.

[TheGoldStandard]

It seems as if Pop's decided to roll with "chase the ball" defense, whoever has the ball everyone blitz them. I don't think that's what we'll see playoff time but it's oh so frustrating.

[HarlemHeat37]

You're really going out on the limb with this post. This coming from a guy who said the Spurs would split their home and home with OKC.The Spurs lost to Portland because of Liliard. They lost to Houston because of Harden. They lost to OKC because of their ability to spread the floor and knock down open shot after open shot. They're getting beat by athletes, not because some big is knocking down a three once or twice. Ibaka was only 6-14 from the field and Aldridge carves up everyone.

The Spurs strategy is to allow mid range jumers and guard against shots at the rim and threes? They're 16th in the league at gaurding the three and those numbers balloon when they play against good three pount shooting teams. The strategy may be sound, but the execution is weak.

When did I make a Spurs win prediction re: the OKC game?..I said the Spurs were going to lose prior to the game, tbh:lol..find the post, I'm curious, you're playing with fire by bringing up past predictions:lol..

I don't really give a shit about this season's small sample size, it's only been a 25-game season so far, but still, the Spurs are 4th in the league in mid-range shot attempts allowed per game, it's the philosophy they utilize every year..I don't know what you're trying to argue, everybody here with any knowledge of the Spurs knows their philosophy:lol..

They're allowing more 3 attempts than they usually do, which obviously isn't by design, and something they will address, but they're still in the bottom 7 in corner 3-point shot attempts allowed per game..

Their success at guarding 3s this season had no part in my argument, I never claimed they have been good at guarding the 3 this year, nor do I care about small sample sizes..I'm merely pointing out Pop's philosophy that we have seen over the past few years and that he has spoken about..


It's also a fact that the Spurs struggle most with teams that have a big man that can shoot the ball from the mid-range..I'm not using a short-sighted sample size like you always do, I'm basing it on the past 3 years of basketball..

[Hoops Czar]

When did I make a Spurs win prediction re: the OKC game?..I said the Spurs were going to lose prior to the game, tbh:lol..find the post, I'm curious, you're playing with fire by bringing up past predictions:lol..

I don't really give a shit about this season's small sample size, it's only been a 25-game season so far, but still, the Spurs are 4th in the league in mid-range shot attempts allowed per game, it's the philosophy they utilize every year..I don't know what you're trying to argue, everybody here with any knowledge of the Spurs knows their philosophy:lol..

They're allowing more 3 attempts than they usually do, which obviously isn't by design, and something they will address, but they're still in the bottom 7 in corner 3-point shot attempts allowed per game..

Their success at guarding 3s this season had no part in my argument, I never claimed they have been good at guarding the 3 this year, nor do I care about small sample sizes..I'm merely pointing out Pop's philosophy that we have seen over the past few years and that he has spoken about..


It's also a fact that the Spurs struggle most with teams that have a big man that can shoot the ball from the mid-range..I'm not using a short-sighted sample size like you always do, I'm basing it on the past 3 years of basketball..



:lol NBA fans overreacting to a meaningless game in an 82 game regular season, as usual..

Spurs and Thunder are 2 of the 4 legit contenders in the NBA, they're going to exchange wins in this meaningless regular season, tbh..

You said it, not me. We're 1/4th of the way through the season. I don't think they're SSS's anymore. Even so, you say that you don't like to use them but then you do. I wasn't talking philosophy, I was talking execution. But, thanks for moving the goal posts. In your previous post, you said the Spurs give up the mid range J's and guard against the three. That's clearly not happening. It doesn't matter if they're bottom 7 in corner three's. It's pretty pointless when your giving them up from everywhere else and most of them, being the uncontested variety.

[Hoops Czar]

They also stuggle against more athletic teams HH. It's not a fluke they were bacdoor swept by the Thunder in 2012 and it's not really surprising they dropped the first two games to them this year.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol they play 4 times in the season, they will exchange wins..

Go look at the game thread, I said they were going to lose before the game, predictable loss..

And how can I move the goal posts when YOU replied to MY post about the Spurs strategy, and began arguing about execution?:lol..I never claimed they were good at defending 3s in this small sample size of a season, I was simply pointing out that their philosophy is allowing more mid-range jump shots, which they're 4th in the league at this season, and is something they have been near the top of the league at for years..

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Ibaka had a 63% True Shooting % and a 123 offensive rating in that series..his shooting ability buried the Spurs, tbh..

[jARS mEsH sEt]

The Spurs defensive scheme boils down to two principles:

1) Never allow middle penetration.
2) Force opposing players to take long 2s versus 3s or shots near the rim.

The reason for never allowing middle penetration is pretty obvious. If you allow middle penetration you open up a hell of lot more options for the opposing team's guard off penetration. By always funneling the opposing guard baseline, you limit their options and therefore maximize the probability of "guessing correctly" for help defense purposes, because the opposing team has only 2 or 3 sensible options off baseline penetration.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Against OKC in 2012, this defensive strategy essentially forced OKC's bigs to shoot an astronomical percentage from mid range to beat us (with ref help) in 6 games. I'd say it was a pretty good strategy in 2012.

If Collison, Ibaka, and Fisher go 23 for 25 from mid range you just have to tip your hat.

[Hoops Czar]

:lol they play 4 times in the season, they will exchange wins..

Go look at the game thread, I said they were going to lose before the game, predictable loss..

And how can I move the goal posts when YOU replied to MY post about the Spurs strategy, and began arguing about execution?:lol..I never claimed they were good at defending 3s in this small sample size of a season, I was simply pointing out that their philosophy is allowing more mid-range jump shots, which they're 4th in the league at this season, and is something they have been near the top of the league at for years..

Oh, so you did say it. Did you predict a Spurs loss yesterday because that would be contradictory.

You made a blurb about strategy and I told you the strategy wasn't working. Then, you talked about how the team struggles against good shooting bigs. The Lakers have a good shooting big, as does Philly, as does GS, as does Miami etc. The Spurs struggle against athletic bigs because Tim Duncan isn't as mobile as he use to be and Tiago isn't very athletic and just gets overmatched. It doesn't really make a difference if they can hit a jum shot because they're giving those up anyways. They also struggle against teams with athletes that possess speed and quickness..... Harden, Iiliard, Paul, OKC etc. Green's regression, Beli's lack of D, Patty's inability to kee players in front of him and Parker's slow start have all been contributing factors.

Ibaka was 6-14 yesterday. I think the Spurs can live with that.

[Hoops Czar]

:lol Ibaka had a 63% True Shooting % and a 123 offensive rating in that series..his shooting ability buried the Spurs, tbh..
Ibaka hit a lot of shots in the restricted area too.

[james evans]

Im not pleased with Pop this season, dude is senile benching Duncan for nothing 28 seconds before the ring, 6 years and no finals made his brain rusty.
Right now everybody says COASTING TBH TBH TBH, but I remember when Pop hit the Panic Button against OKC... I guess he wasnt coasting then TBH TBH TBH TBH!
yep. he started ginobli. it was no coasting then. he seriously doesn't know everything like people up here claims he does..

[Kabals]

Spurs not having athletic big that can defend the pick'n'roll is a big problem. Most of the time Parker has to defend 2vs1, normally you shouldn't even let a point guard going 1vs1.

[timmy2003]

The only teams that will be difficult for the spurs are OKC, Indiana and Miami. They can score and play defense.
Portland and Houston can cause some problems as well

[timmy2003]

Spurs not having athletic big that can defend the pick'n'roll is a big problem. Most of the time Parker has to defend 2vs1, normally you shouldn't even let a point guard going 1vs1.
Splitter is a good Pnr defender and Ayres is pretty athletic

[cd021]

Tbh It's getting kind of annoying watching the spurs "pack the paint and pray they miss". I mean it works against teams like the grizzlies but with more and more teams becoming more leathal from midrange and 3 don't you think pop would change it up a bit and just make every one stick to their man? Tbh just shut everyone else down and let durant and westbrook work for everything 1 on 1. If they make tough shots than so be it at least your not letting every one else get involved.



Green/Westbrook=Last season-4 Games, 23.0 PPG ,36%FG, 28 3pt, 22 FGA per game.
This season-2 Games-18.5 PPG, 39% FG, 18 FGA Per Game

Leonard/Durant-41 mpg, 50% FG %,16 FGA, 23 PPG (5 below his average, 1 of those games, Green was the primary defender)
This season-2 Games-43 % FG, 18.5 FGA, 20.5 ppg) (5 below his average, 1 of those games, Green was the primary defender)


Splitter/Ibaka-4 Games-50% FG 10 FGA per game, 13.3 PPG
This season-2 Games-44%FG-14.5 FGA Per Game, 15.5 PPG

It works well against the Thunder. Last game Westbrook went off because we had Green on Durant and Parker on Westbrook.

[DAF86]

You said it, not me. We're 1/4th of the way through the season. I don't think they're SSS's anymore. Even so, you say that you don't like to use them but then you do. I wasn't talking philosophy, I was talking execution. But, thanks for moving the goal posts. In your previous post, you said the Spurs give up the mid range J's and guard against the three. That's clearly not happening. It doesn't matter if they're bottom 7 in corner three's. It's pretty pointless when your giving them up from everywhere else and most of them, being the uncontested variety.

The OP was talking about "Pop's defensive schemes" which seems to imply "Pop's philosophy".

[hooperflash]

Yeah! Lebron is on fire, we need to quit treating him like he isn't an NBA player and get on him. Kawhi has already proven he can bother James. We need to fix that pronto or it's the end for us this series.

June 2013

[Chomag]

There are a few other factors but the to simplify it I think is spurs struggle greatly against athleticism. TD when he had younger legs would negate this quite a bit but father of time is a bitch, and he is not capable of holding the fort down on his own against fast athletic players coming into the lane.

Their team is usually pretty sharp but Spurs still need at least 1 more quick lengthy "Young" player especially against the elite teams.

[TheGreatYacht]

*Belinelli & Mills cut lead in 2nd quarter*

Pop: "WHAT THE HELL ARE YALL DOING?! SIT NEXT TO BAYNES"

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:lol did anyone see that play where tony was playing the passing lane (as if he was gonna get a steal from harden) :lol he was literally sagging 15ft from lin giving him a wide open 3.:lol cmon pop tell these niggas to stick to their man and let harden get his. dude will get his no matter what. put green on harden and kawhi on parsons. harden will get his but I guarantee kawhi would shut that fool down. I really hope pops still coasting, tbh.