Some random observations regarding the Spurs issues, tbh..

[HarlemHeat37]

- The Splitter and Duncan pairing..

Of all 2-man combinations that have played substantial minutes together this season, the Splitter-Duncan combination has been by far the 2nd worst, only behind the Beli-Leonard duo, tbh..

When Duncan and Splitter are on the floor together, the Spurs shoot 42% from the field and a disgusting 25% from 3-point range..last year, the Duncan-Splitter pairing was the 2nd best on the team among rotations that played substantial minutes, only behind Duncan-Parker..defensively, the Duncan-Splitter duo has been one of the worst combinations on the roster, a 180 from last season's elite performance, allowing 45% from the field and a ridiculous 43% from long distance..

The Spurs shot 50% from the field and 41% from 3 when Duncan-Splitter were on the floor together in 2012-2013..When Duncan and Splitter were on the floor together last season, opponents shot 41% from the field and 36% from 3, it was one of the best defensive pairings in the entire league..

Obviously you have to factor the rest of the 3 starters and weigh their minutes, as it will affect the outcome of the 2-man stats, but if you only rank the 2-man combinations among Spurs' starters, Duncan-Splitter is by far the 2nd worst combination, tbh..

So, what is the problem?..

Well, defensively, Duncan's mobility is the problem, tbh..he's even slower than last season, and it's more difficult than ever to defend with conventional lineups in today's NBA, especially without an athletic freak in the frontcourt..

At the rim and on the interior, Duncan has actually been one of the best defenders in the league this season..among bigs that are statistically eligible, Duncan is 7th in the NBA in defensive FG% at the rim, he has done a great job contesting and blocking shots this year..

The problem is that opponents are attempting more 3s and jump shots against the Spurs this year due to their lack of mobility, especially up front..Splitter is the best all-around defender on the team, but his offense is too much of a liability to start him at this point IMO..

- Beli should not be a starter on this team..

His defensive numbers are horrible, tbh..the 3-point defense in the starting lineup has gone downhill since he joined the unit..

Strategically, it doesn't make sense..Kawhi Leonard is a good defender(although overrated), but his defensive style is suited to guard big SGs/SFs/small PFs..he is not a good defender against guards, he does not possess the lateral quickness to defend PGs and quick SGs like Lebron..

Danny Green is the Spurs' best defensive player against guards, tbh..

When you have Beli and Leonard in the game together, the Spurs are asking Leonard to defend guards like Harden/Ellis, which he can't do effectively..having Beli on the floor doesn't aid Leonard offensively, and it makes even less sense for the team from a defensive standpoint, since Marco is a huge defensive liability..

- Green should be starting..

The duo of Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive combination among 2-man starters, after they ranked highly last season, and more importantly for this team and their struggles defending the outside shot, they are the best combination at defending the 3..

Opponents are only shooting 33% from 3 when Green and Leonard are on the floor at the same time..the numbers are even more impressive when you combine them with just one of Duncan/Splitter + Boris Diaw..

I have seen some posters comment that the Spurs got lucky last year by avoiding elite 3-point teams in the playoffs, but they did play against 2 of the best outside shooting teams in the league in the Warriors/Heat..

Pop recognized the obvious move in those series's:

Vs. Lakers: Green 23.2 MPG
Vs. Warriors: 35.7
Vs. Grizzlies: 28.4
Vs. Heat: 35.6

The Spurs need Leonard/Green to play 35+ minutes each in any series against quality shooting teams, obviously..

It's also obvious that the Spurs need another perimeter defender, but since there's no room at the 1/2, it'll have to be a Kirilenko type at the 3/4..

-Boris should be starting..

Defensively, the combination of either one of Duncan/Splitter with Diaw has been noticeably better than the Duncan and Splitter duo, tbh..

While Diaw isn't a defensive stopper of any kind, he's mobile enough to contest the outside, which has killed the Spurs as of late..

Offensively and overall, although the sample size is small, the lineup of Duncan/Diaw/Leonard/Green/Parker has been the most effective combination of Spurs rotation players, tbh..

In the small sample size, the Spurs are shooting 58% from the field and 50% from 3 with that lineup..while there's the possibility that the numbers are skewed due to the sample size, this lineup shot 50% from the field and 43% from 3 through the course of last season, they didn't have any problems scoring the ball, tbh..

-Leonard is the weak link on offense..

It's evident that Leonard without a jump shot doesn't fit in the starting lineup, where he is used primarily as a spot-up shooter and garbage man, tbh..

Leonard's shooting %s from the corners have dipped..down 4% on 1 side and 14% on the other side..not only are the %s lower, but he's shooting 5% less attempts from 1 corner and another 5% less on the other end..

I've read from several posters that Leonard should be attacking more, but where exactly is the spacing?..from the footage I've watched, there just isn't any room, tbh..Splitter is in the paint, opponents are sagging off Duncan and allowing him to shoot his jump shots, and Tony isn't a perimeter threat..

This has also hurt all the other Spurs' starters, as defenders are clearly sagging off Leonard and begging him to shoot 3s..

Leonard as a spot-up shooter + Splitter on offense hurts the rest of the starters, as they are both offensive liabilities at the moment..

For those that question Leonard's ability to create, he's actually 3rd on the team in shots created for himself, barely behind Ginobili..he's very capable of creating in the mid-post and inside, which is supported by the numbers and footage..

The numbers show that he has been horrible with Duncan and Splitter, but much better with Diaw..this makes sense, as Diaw can stretch the floor and adds another creator to the floor, he allows Leonard to operate and finish..

Leonard will continue to be an offensive liability when he's on the floor in this role, his shooting isn't going to magically improve, and Splitter will not miraculously develop a jump shot, tbh..the Spurs are currently playing a starting lineup with 2 offensive liabilities, a defensive liability(Beli) and a worn out Parker..

Ideally, the Spurs will acquire one more 2-way piece at the 3 or a smaller 4, it would help provide much needed flexibility..I'm very hopeful for a lineup of Duncan/Diaw/Leonard/Green/Parker, as I think it would help solve some of these issues..

[dallasmaverickslose]

It seemed like until the finals, the Duncan-Splitter pairing was working nicely. Don't know what happened tbh.

[TheGoldStandard]

Duncan was a beast last year, Splitter looked good because of this.. now that Duncan has slowed a little Splitter looks worse.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan-Splitter worked against Gasol-Randolph and Howard-Hill in the playoffs, but failed against the Warriors and Heat small-ball lineups..

They have struggled this year against bigs that can shoot/run and small-ball lineups, tbh..the Blazers, Rockets and Thunder possess combinations that will give the Splitter/Duncan combination some problems IMO..

Duncan's offensive decline has hurt the duo's offensive effectiveness, as Splitter obviously isn't a reliable offensive weapon..

[dallasmaverickslose]

Duncan was a beast last year, Splitter looked good because of this.. now that Duncan has slowed a little Splitter looks worse.

Which is why I'm pissed Tiago isn't helping out Timmy more.

[TheGoldStandard]

Which is why I'm pissed Tiago isn't helping out Timmy more.

He's not capable of that.. Tiago is useless against this years 2nd round teams we will potentially face offensively and defensively.

[dallasmaverickslose]

He's not capable of that.. Tiago is useless against this years 2nd round teams we will potentially face offensively and defensively.

Pretty much tbh. What a letdown. Hope Boris can continues to have a solid season because we need it more than ever this year.

[timtonymanu]

I agree. Danny needs to start and Marco needs to come off the bench.

I don't know why a lot of people wanted to bench Green and start Marco. :lol

Marco's defense is an upgrade over Neal's but he's still pretty bad on that end.

And I'm all for starting Diaw over Splitter. That should be the adjustment. Diaw makes a lot of sense for the jumpshooting teams in the league which is what the Spurs have struggled with.

[apalisoc_9]

Pretty good observations...

Who would you have playing at the end of games HH?

I've always thought a Duncan or Splitter-Kawhi-Green-Manu-Parker would be perfect for any matchup...assuming no one is playing terribly bad or super good

[Assman]

If I had a nickle for every "tbh" in this thread, I'd have like $20.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Awesome info. Tiago and Timmy are failing the eye test obviously, you further prove that with your write up. Timmy is slowing down, most of us knew he couldn't maintain his level from last season. Splitter has also taken a step back. The big difference is Splitter is 28 years old, Splitter was supposed to improve, another year with this team, another year in the system. We all had hoped Splitter, Leonard, and Green would continue to improve. And in large part they have all taken a step back in at least one area of their game, and none of them have improved significantly in any area. Obviously huge problems. Add their struggles with Tony Parker's struggles/fatigue and that brings you smack dab staring into the face of this years team. Good against the scrubs, horrible against the elite. Something has to give.

I am concerned with Parker, what can you do to get him going? He is obviously exhausted. That is not going away anytime soon. So unless we see him get extensive rest, I don't see an answer to the problem, and we all know Parker sitting out for multiple games isn't likely/not going to happen. Splitter will likely play better Defense, Rebound better. But his Offense is not going to improve. We know this. Maybe he ups his scoring a basket, maybe two a game here and there. That isn't good enough. His Offense is way too underdeveloped. Green is streaky, if he isn't hitting, he has to make up for it with his Defense. I think Green will come and go, that's what we got last year, that's what we will get this year. Which brings us to Leonard. He can't do a lot worse can he? He is the youngest on the team, and the most athletic. The Spurs have to get a lot more from him, and Pop HAS to start calling him plays, Parker has to get him involved. If we don't get this, we are toast. Bottom line. Even with Leonard vastly improving as the season gets late, we still likely don't have enough. There has been to much regression in some of our players. Also some players likely over achieved and they are giving their best, but their best isn't good enough.

Which brings us to the obvious conclusion. TRADE. Bonner has an expiring deal. Does he have any value? Not a lot, but do you think Brooklyn wants to shed salary? The Knicks??? The longer these teams lose, the better it is for San Antonio TBH. It increases the likelihood of those teams wanting to blow it all up and start over. Those are just 2 teams, obvious teams at that, but there are others. Do we have other players worth anything? Maybe, maybe not. It just depends on who San Antonio is willing to make expendable. Does the front office see this season as it's now or never??? Or are they in denial? We know this can't last forever...Tim is 38. The end is in site, but that doesn't mean all is bad. We have had an amazing run, we still have a chance to win it ALL this year, maybe next year. But this is a team that is firmly planted in the now. There isn't a foreseeable future plan.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

I agree. Danny needs to start and Marco needs to come off the bench.

I don't know why a lot of people wanted to bench Green and start Marco. :lol

Marco's defense is an upgrade over Neal's but he's still pretty bad on that end.


And I'm all for starting Diaw over Splitter. That should be the adjustment. Diaw makes a lot of sense for the jumpshooting teams in the league which is what the Spurs have struggled with.

Honestly Diaw over Splitter isn't a bad idea. At least try it. Splitter could have a shot at least against 2nd stringers...

[TheGoldStandard]

Awesome info. Tiago and Timmy are failing the eye test obviously, you prove that with your write up. Timmy is slowing down, most of us knew he couldn't maintain his level from last season. Splitter has also taken a step back. The big difference is Splitter is 28 years old, Splitter was supposed to improve, another year with this team, another year in the system. We all had hoped Splitter, Leonard, and Green would continue to improve. And in large part they have all taken a step back in at least one area of their game, and none of them have improved significantly in any area. Obviously huge problems. Add their struggles with Tony Parker's struggles/fatigue and that brings you smack dab staring into the face of this years team. Good against the scrubs, horrible against the elite. Something has to give.

I am concerned with Parker, what can you do to get him going? He is obviously exhausted. That is not going away anytime soon. So unless we see him get extensive rest, I don't see an answer to the problem, and we all know Parker sitting out for multiple games isn't likely/not going to happen. Splitter will likely play better Defense, Rebound better. But his Offense is not going to improve. We know this. Maybe he ups his scoring a basket, maybe two a game here and there. That isn't good enough. His Offense is way too underdeveloped. Green is streaky, if he isn't hitting, he has to make up for it with his Defense. I think Green will come and go, that's what we got last year, that's what we will get this year. Which brings us to Leonard. He can't do a lot worse can he? He is the youngest on the team, and the most athletic. The Spurs have to get a lot more from him, and Pop HAS to start calling him plays, Parker has to get him involved. If we don't get this, we are toast. Bottom line. Even with Leonard vastly improving as the season gets late, we still likely don't have enough. There has been to much regression in some of our players. Also some players likely over achieved and they are giving their best, but their best isn't good enough.

Which brings us to the obvious conclusion. TRADE. Bonner has an expiring deal. Does he have any value? Not a lot, but do you think Brooklyn wants to shed salary? The Knicks??? The longer these teams lose, the better it is for San Antonio TBH. It increases the likelihood of those teams wanting to blow it all up and start over. Those are just 2 teams, obvious teams at that, but there are others. Do we have other players worth anything? Maybe, maybe not. It just depends on who San Antonio is willing to make expendable. Does the front office see this season as it's now or never??? Or are they in denial? We know this can't last forever...Tim is 38. The end is in site, but that doesn't mean all is bad. We have had an amazing run, we still have a chance to win it ALL this year, maybe next year. But this is a team that is firmly planted in the now. There isn't a foreseeable future plan.

Tiago has done absolutely nothing to help his offensive game, no post moves at all, not even basic stuff you learn as a kid. It's embarrassing. Sure we have some players to trade but a lot of the teams that would want to shed players for cap relief have absolutely nothing of interest, hence why they are sucking in the first place.

[007nites]

Diaw is probably the 3rd best defender on this squad tbh. I don't know how he manages to move his feet that fast but he does.

[Chinook]

Great work.

I do think benching Splitter would be a good move. He's good enough to be worth his money, but he can't play with Duncan, especially if Leonard continues to struggle from three. Green got the blame, but his plus-minus suggests he played his role well enough. Benching Leonard against smaller teams may be a good idea, since Beli can space the floor better, which would help the offense. Green can guard the smaller players like Ellis. Then Leonard can play with more spacing in a unit in which he can play in the post. That makes more sense than benching Green in such games.

Agree on the need for a third defender, but disagree on the position. I think a defensive combo-guard would be best. Mills is a great fit next to Beli and Manu, but the team needs someone who can check all these sixth-man type guards.

[crc21209]

I didn't realize that the Duncan-Splitter combo was that bad. I totally agree that Green should be starting over Belinelli. Not only does starting Belinelli hurt the defense right from the tip, but it hurts the bench and eliminates the awesome pairing of Manu and Beli off the bench. Pretty dumb move by Pop. Green obviously needs to go back to his starting role. As far as Diaw goes, I'm all for starting him over Splitter right now if it's gonna help the spacing on offense.

[TheGoldStandard]

Great work.

I do think benching Splitter would be a good move. He's good enough to be worth his money, but he can't play with Duncan, especially if Leonard continues to struggle from three. Green got the blame, but his plus-minus suggests he played his role well enough. Benching Leonard against smaller teams may be a good idea, since Beli can space the floor better, which would help the offense. Green can guard the smaller players like Ellis. Then Leonard can play with more spacing in a unit in which he can play in the post. That makes more sense than benching Green in such games.

Agree on the need for a third defender, but disagree on the position. I think a defensive combo-guard would be best. Mills is a great fit next to Beli and Manu, but the team needs someone who can check all these sixth-man type guards.

Really would like to have a SF who is athletic enough to stick on a guard to make them give up the ball and rush them into bad situations but then have them available to stick lengthy SF/SG

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Tiago has done absolutely nothing to help his offensive game, no post moves at all, not even basic stuff you learn as a kid. It's embarrassing. Sure we have some players to trade but a lot of the teams that would want to shed players for cap relief have absolutely nothing of interest, hence why they are sucking in the first place.

Well when looking at New York and Brooklyn, they are filled with talent. They just can't win, too many egos, no coaching. Egos aren't an issue in San Antonio, everyone gets in line. It's a veteran team without b.s., we are very lucky in that capacity. Pop won't have b.s. Not to say those 2 teams aren't veteran, but their egos are unreal, their coaching is horrid. It's just a waiting game. I know there are other trade partners out there, I just keep throwing these two out because they are the most obvious.

[TheGoldStandard]

Well when looking at New York and Brooklyn, they are filled with talent. They just can't win, too many egos, no coaching. Egos aren't an issue in San Antonio, everyone gets in line. It's a veteran team without b.s., we are very lucky in that capacity. Pop won't have b.s. Not to say those 2 teams aren't veteran, but their egos are unreal, their coaching is horrid. It's just a waiting game. I know there are other trade partners out there, I just keep throwing these two out because they are the most obvious.

If we could somehow get Plumlee I'd be all for that.. AK doesn't look like he can stay healthy, Blatche would be interesting from an offensive stand point and Teletovic

[Chinook]

Really would like to have a SF who is athletic enough to stick on a guard to make them give up the ball and rush them into bad situations but then have them available to stick lengthy SF/SG

Any target in mind? The thing about defensive combo-guards is that they're not all that tough to find.

[TheGoldStandard]

Any target in mind? The thing about defensive combo-guards is that they're not all that tough to find.

Evan Turner because of the Philly ties and his reported dislike for what's going on in Philly.

[Chinook]

Evan Turner because of the Philly ties and his reported dislike for what's going on in Philly.

Not an easy deal to make and his contract situation after this year is tricky. Also, he's very inefficient and shows no signs if being a good defensive player. Wouldn't make too much sense to me as the fifth wing.

[Robz4000]

Agree with Chinook that the Spurs need another defensive combo guard. However, he needs to be capable of defending either wing position as well imo, ala Green. While Green's defense on SFs leaves a lot to be admired, being competent at doing it has helped the Spurs a lot in the past. By getting this player and if Pop ever gives Thomas a shot and he works out, a lot of the Spurs' issues become fixable internally.

Also agree on starting Diaw, tho imo him and Splitter should be interchanged depending on matchups from here on out.

[SpursFan86]

Here are how the lineups should be IMO:

starting: De Col-...just kidding. Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan

bench: Mills/Belinelli/Ginobili/Bonner/Splitter. No, I'm not thrilled at the idea of Bonner getting playtime...but he's better than Ayres. Unless Malcolm Thomas pans out (speaking of him...why has he gotten no playing time AT ALL?), Bonner is our best bet at backup 4. That, or find a way to always keep one of Leonard/Diaw on the floor and play whoever it is at the 4.

end of games/crunch time: Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan. This is our best possible lineup IMO. It'd be really nice if Kawhi could get his range back so that the spacing in this lineup is better. Parker/Diaw can hit threes, but they're not serious threats. As of now Leonard isn't either. That leaves only Ginobili.

One thing that worries me is our reliance on the bench. Don't get me wrong; I love our bench play. But we've already seen so far that the bench won't be able to carry us against great teams. In the playoffs, we shouldn't be relying on the bench to give us 40+ points every night. They're a great tool for the regular season, and they will surely have their moments in the playoffs, but we're going to need our starting lineup to be more effective if we want to go deep in the playoffs. Particularly, we need more scoring in our starting lineup. We all know how Parker gets at times...while he's still a reliable #1 option, he WILL disappear at times in the playoffs. That's how he is. Duncan has looked worse offensively this year...while he's still solid, we won't be able to rely on him to carry the scoring load. Especially not if he's going up against someone like Dwight.

[spurraider21]

great takes HH :tu

i think a majority of posters knew Green should have been starting the whole time. it was mostly cliff jumping GNSF that wanted green benched. Green's shot comes and goes, but his defense is consistent. Beli also clearly plays at his best next to Manu. Diaw-Duncan would work fine, but I think they should continue to ride Duncan-Splitter and let them figure it out like they did last year, since that is an imposing defensive duo.

[wildchild]

Evan Turner because of the Philly ties and his reported dislike for what's going on in Philly.

I can see Leonard in Sixers uniform. We really need a new guy bc the team don't figure out ways to utilize Leonard.
When searching for a potential landing spots, Leonard and his agent'll be looking for more opportunities and presence in playbook, and a young SF like Kawhi'd be a tempting trade for those teams (Sixers, Cavs, Pelicans).

[SpursFan86]

Y'all can't be serious...Kawhi for Evan Turner? Really? He's a horribly inefficient scorer, and nowhere near the defender/rebounder Leonard is. Y'all really want Danny Green guarding the opposing team's best perimeter scorer every game? Not to mention we'd then have Parker/Evan Turner, two mediocre defenders, left to guard the other two perimeter guys.

I'm sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously who legitimately considers Leonard for Turner to be a reasonable idea. That would immediately make our team noticeably worse.

And by the way, Evan Turner isn't even shooting 30% from 3 this year. If you're irked by Kawhi's 3-point shooting slump, Evan Turner would only be worse. Only difference is, Kawhi actually offers noticeable contributions in other areas like rebounding and defense.

[wildchild]

Y'all can't be serious...Kawhi for Evan Turner? Really? He's a horribly inefficient scorer, and nowhere near the defender/rebounder Leonard is.

Well I'm not sure if he's a bad scorer but we need a new guy and Leonard needs a change of team. It's just as simple as that.

We need another offense option and his role in the offense is still not clear. He has to be frustrated in San Antonio, he’s being completely underutilized, and Leonard's too talented to continue to underperform.

[marbles1991]

Bonner/Joseph/Ayres/Euro rights and our first rounder and even a few second rounders for Taj Gibson. It works in the trade machine and would solve basically every problem with this team.

[Baam]

Only thing I agree is starting Diaw is a must, will relieve Parker with the playmaking duties and allow Kawhi to play closer to the basket...

[boutons_deux]

Diaw is probably the 3rd best defender on this squad tbh. I don't know how he manages to move his feet that fast but he does.

grease aside (which does help backing down, blocking out), he's a pretty good athlete, moves well "enough", good BBIQ, good passer, and some of his soft-touch shots are very creative/won't see exactly that again.

[SpursFan86]

Well I'm not sure if he's a bad scorer but we need a new guy and Leonard needs a change of team. It's just as simple as that.

We need another offense option and his role in the offense is still not clear. He has to be frustrated in San Antonio, he’s being completely underutilized, and Leonard's too talented to continue to underperform.

Evan Turner isn't the answer as "another offense option" though. He's a mediocre volume scorer who doesn't contribute in any other aspect. I disagree that Leonard needs a change of team...we have the whole year to figure out ways to get him more involved and doing the things he's best at. I'm honestly a little shocked that there are actually multiple people here so ready to trade him at the first signs of problems (if you could even call his performance this year a "problem")...especially for someone like Evan Turner.

[PlayNando]

:lol at the clowns wanting to trade Kawhi.

[quentin_compson]

Whatever the problems are, Evan Turner certainly isn't the solution.

I agree with sticking to pairing Duncan and Tiago and hoping that they figure out things on both ends of the floor. Splitter is pretty mobile and could be decent at closing out to the perimeter if he sets his mind to it or if he is told to do so on a consistent basis.

[HarlemHeat37]

While I do agree that Splitter/Duncan can figure it out defensively, I don't think that duo + Kawhi will solve their offensive problems, which is killing the starting lineup..

It worked last year because:

- Leonard was making his corner 3s much more efficiently
- Parker was much more explosive and benefited from spacing on the corners
- Duncan was having arguably the best "old man" season in league history
- Splitter was more useful offensively, at least at finishing

Duncan has improved from a shitty start and it's quite possible that Parker eventually finds his form after some rest, but I'm not sure if Leonard's shot will improve and that Tiago will be more effective at finishing, tbh..

I think it was objective that said he thinks Splitter is trying too hard to shed the soft image after the embarrassment of last year's Finals and has gone away from his effective flip shots..it's possible, I'd have to look at the videos, his confidence could be shot..

[-21-]

Green should be starting and Bellineli should be on the bench. I think everyone agrees with that.

Starting Diaw is worth a shot, even for just a few games. He could help Tony with the playmaking duties and take some pressure off of him. Diaw will also provide better spacing compared to Tiago which could give Kawhi more opportunities other than spot up threes. Another thing is I think Tiago could flourish playing with Manu/Beli against opposing 2nd units. If it doesn't work than they can go back to Duncan/Splitter and hope they can work things out like last year.

[TD 21]

I'm not surprised by any of these observations. I've been saying for weeks that, as currently constructed, it's obvious Diaw needs to start and Bonner needs to be the fourth big, but Pop is clearly done with Bonner and they don't appear to be in any hurry to give Thomas a look. In other words, if Diaw starts, they wouldn't have a backup PF. The best realistic (because none of the top eight are going anywhere) trade I see to solve this and at least somewhat alleviate their spacing/mobility issues, is Bonner and Ayres for Bass.

[Spurs da champs]

I agree with everything except this:

Strategically, it doesn't make sense..Kawhi Leonard is a good defender(although overrated), but his defensive style is suited to guard big SGs/SFs/small PFs..he is not a good defender against guards, he does not possess the lateral quickness to defend PGs and quick SGs like Lebron..


Someone didn't watch the Finals? Kawhi did as great a job as I've ever seen on the best player in the world, in terms of top defenders; he's got the best speed, length, & strength combination to guard LeBron.

[Chinook]

I agree with everything except this:


Someone didn't watch the Finals? Kawhi did as great a job as I've ever seen on the best player in the world, in terms of top defenders; he's got the best speed, length, & strength combination to guard LeBron.

You misunderstood Harlem's statement. He's saying Leonard can't guard quick guys like Lebron can, not that he can't guard Lebron.

[Spurs da champs]

You misunderstood Harlem's statement. He's saying Leonard can't guard quick guys like Lebron can, not that he can't guard Lebron.

Yeah, just noticed it now, my bad. Harlem is still a douche, however.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

You misunderstood Harlem's statement. He's saying Leonard can't guard quick guys like Lebron can, not that he can't guard Lebron.

Except I disagree. Late in the series Lebron did get his. But early in the series Lebron was being shut down in a way nobody had ever seen. Even the announcers, also Barkley and his crew were saying Leonard was playing the finest Defense they had ever seen on Lebron. Then for some damn reason Pop decides in game 7 to change it all and let Lebron shoot wide open time after time again. Not just a little room, WIDE OPEN. If you dare a guy to shoot and he is killing you in a game 7 you have to fuckin adjust. Leonard did amazing when he was actually guarding Lebron.

[Chinook]

Except I disagree. Late in the series Lebron did get his. But early in the series Lebron was being shut down in a way nobody had ever seen. Even the announcers, also Barkley and his crew were saying Leonard was playing the finest Defense they had ever seen on Lebron. Then for some damn reason Pop decides in game 7 to change it all and let Lebron shoot wide open time after time again. Not just a little room, WIDE OPEN. If you dare a guy to shoot and he is killing you in a game 7 you have to fuckin adjust. Leonard did amazing when he was actually guarding Lebron.

You misunderstood again. He's comparing Kawhi's defense on quick players to Lebron's. He's not talking about Leonard's defense on James.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

You misunderstood again. He's comparing Kawhi's defense on quick players to Lebron's. He's not talking about Leonard's defense on James.

Oh fuck me, my bad. I just read his response. Not HH's post. I got you.

[jimbo]

Tiago has done absolutely nothing to help his offensive game, no post moves at all, not even basic stuff you learn as a kid. It's embarrassing. Sure we have some players to trade but a lot of the teams that would want to shed players for cap relief have absolutely nothing of interest, hence why they are sucking in the first place.

You can't use the stuff you learned as a kid in the NBA. Tiago probably knows a lot more moves, just not at a level where they can be used against other 6'10 freak athletes.

You could probably test this for yourself in a rec league. Go try out some sick post moves you've practiced on your own and watch that shit get smacked back at you

[TheGoldStandard]

You can't use the stuff you learned as a kid in the NBA. Tiago probably knows a lot more moves, just not at a level where they can be used against other 6'10 freak athletes.

You could probably test this for yourself in a rec league. Go try out some sick post moves you've practiced on your own and watch that shit get smacked back at you

I understand you can't go "And 1" tourney in the NBA but shit like using your left hand to shoot a hook in the post would be nice and that's something you learn very early on as a big, to use both hands. That stupid sweeping hook is god awful or maybe faking that hook and pivoting inside to use your left for a layup, you know basic post ball.

[DPG21920]

One of the best threads all year from mah dude HH. Subtle goods..

[Chinook]

One of the best threads all year from mah dude HH. Subtle goods..

Nothing subtle about these goods.

[ElNono]

Good read. Boris been beasting, tbh. Can't say enough good things about him.

[Bruno]

Nice post. While I think Belinelli might improve Spurs starting lineup offense, it might not be enough to make it decent. The key is benching one of Splitter or Duncan and bring a player that will bring more mobility and spacing.

Some stats to back up the OP:
Offensive rating for some lineups:
Parker/Green/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan: 90.3 in 133 min.
Parker/Belinelli/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan: 89.9 in 55 min.
Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan: 86.6 in 43 min.

Sample size are small but it seems that replacing Green by another SG, even a better offensive version, doesn't really improve the offense.

Now a killing stat:
This season, 127 quartets of players have been on the court for more than 200 minutes. Among these 127 quartets, Parker/Leonard/Duncan/Splitter rank 127th in offensive rating at 89.5.
http://stats.nba.com/leagueLineups.html?GroupQuantity=4&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&PerMode=Totals&MeasureType=Advanced&filters=MIN*GE*200&sortField=OFF_RATING&sortOrder=ASC

[ElNono]

I think another thing to take into account is Pop has been experimenting quite a bit. Things need to settle down a bit, Tony needs to regain his footing, and then I think we'll get a better idea.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I think another thing to take into account is Pop has been experimenting quite a bit. Things need to settle down a bit, Tony needs to regain his footing, and then I think we'll get a better idea.

This.

The lineups he's throwing out there now are quite varied, as are the lengths he sticks with them.

[gospursgojas]

Great post. :tu

Biggest impact move will be moving Borris into SL

[ginobilized]

Now a killing stat:
This season, 127 quartets of players have been on the court for more than 200 minutes. Among these 127 quartets, Parker/Leonard/Duncan/Splitter rank 127th in offensive rating at 89.5.
http://stats.nba.com/leagueLineups.html?GroupQuantity=4&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&PerMode=Totals&MeasureType=Advanced&filters=MIN*GE*200&sortField=OFF_RATING&sortOrder=ASC

Wow, I didn't realize it was that bad offensively. Nice find, Bruno!:toast

What is the answer? Do we need to mix it up? Trade, if so, who? What is going to fix this?

[AFBlue]

Good read. Boris been beasting, tbh. Can't say enough good things about him.

He should be getting more burn tbqh...starting and getting more burn.

[Bruno]

What is the answer? Do we need to mix it up? Trade, if so, who? What is going to fix this?

There is still 52 games to play before the playoffs so Pop can still try to make it work. Belinelli starting might help them a little.

If a the end of January, it still doesn't work, it will be time for change. The obvious move would be to start Diaw instead of Splitter. After that, the question will be what to do when Diaw will be on the bench: pair Duncan with Splitter with Green or Ginobili at SF? Play Kawhi at PF? Ayres, Bonner, Baynes or Thomas being in the rotation? A trade for a PF?

I don't think there is a unique answer. Pop rotation might depend on the matchup. Now, a trade would be welcomed if the Kawhi/Duncan/Splitter combo continue to suck and if there isn't a player that magically rise from the end of the bench.

[wildchild]

I disagree that Leonard needs a change of team...we have the whole year to figure out ways to get him more involved and doing the things he's best at.

I'm not really optimistic about that point.


I'm honestly a little shocked that there are actually multiple people here so ready to trade him at the first signs of problems (if you could even call his performance this year a "problem")...especially for someone like Evan Turner.

I don't think his performance is a problem or the team's biggest problem, I'm arguing against Pop and his plan for Leonard.

After performing admirably in finals, Leonard broke through with more confidence, a higher skill level? No, and it's Pop fault if the kid hasn't improved.

-The kid is getting comfortable, having the feeling that his teammates and coach trust him? No.
Confidence would make he plays more free flowing, but he only receives the ball in the corner outside the 3's line, not in a good post position or near the rim.

-Leonard has a motor, he's very athletic, Pops wants him to show his game with his athleticism? No.
Pop isn't facilitating the Leonard growth process, particularly early in the season.

IMO Leonard gives everything he has, he would make an impact on both ends of court, he would be a 20-10 guy in many teams but instead he tries to adjust to Pop strategy for him (without court time, without offense presence) and sacrifice for the system.

League changes, emerging young talents, but Pop's Old school philosophy doesn't change.
There are the reasons why I've said we need a trade for an offensive player SG or SF like Ellis, Deng, Turner, and Kawhi needs a change of team that gives him better chance to improve.

[CGD]

It's all about Leonard finding that outside stroke. That will help the Duncan-Splitter Spacing issue, free up lanes for Tony, and open up things for Danny outside.

[TheGoldStandard]

It's all about Leonard finding that outside stroke. That will help the Duncan-Splitter Spacing issue, free up lanes for Tony, and open up things for Danny outside.

Kawhi is being under utilized, like a smartphone only being used to make phone calls. He deserves better before he regresses in his limited role.

[timmy2003]

How about Parker? He is not as efficient as he was last season.

[TheGoldStandard]

How about Parker? He is not as efficient as he was last season.

Shooting way more than he was shooting last season in situations where he could pass, shot is in the toilet and trying to shoot his way out. I suspect he will start knocking them down in January in less minutes per game.

[jestersmash]

Anyone notice the 2 or 3 mid range jumpers tiago has attempted this season (due to broken plays and faced with expiring shot clocks)? He's 3-3 on them iirc. I wonder if chip is priming tiago to become a competent threat from mid range by the end of the season. They're essentially unguarded free throws to him at this stage.

[TheGoldStandard]

Anyone notice the 2 or 3 mid range jumpers tiago has attempted this season (due to broken plays and faced with expiring shot clocks)? He's 3-3 on them iirc. I wonder if chip is priming tiago to become a competent threat from mid range by the end of the season. They're essentially unguarded free throws to him at this stage.

He hit those in euro league play, I suspect if anyone closed out on the shot he would defer the ball, get blocked or rush the shot.

[jeebus]

- Beli should not be a starter on this team..

His defensive numbers are horrible, tbh..the 3-point defense in the starting lineup has gone downhill since he joined the unit..

Strategically, it doesn't make sense..Kawhi Leonard is a good defender(although overrated), but his defensive style is suited to guard big SGs/SFs/small PFs..he is not a good defender against guards, he does not possess the lateral quickness to defend PGs and quick SGs like Lebron..

Danny Green is the Spurs' best defensive player against guards, tbh..

When you have Beli and Leonard in the game together, the Spurs are asking Leonard to defend guards like Harden/Ellis, which he can't do effectively..having Beli on the floor doesn't aid Leonard offensively, and it makes even less sense for the team from a defensive standpoint, since Marco is a huge defensive liability..

- Green should be starting..

The duo of Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive combination among 2-man starters, after they ranked highly last season, and more importantly for this team and their struggles defending the outside shot, they are the best combination at defending the 3..

Opponents are only shooting 33% from 3 when Green and Leonard are on the floor at the same time..the numbers are even more impressive when you combine them with just one of Duncan/Splitter + Boris Diaw..

I have seen some posters comment that the Spurs got lucky last year by avoiding elite 3-point teams in the playoffs, but they did play against 2 of the best outside shooting teams in the league in the Warriors/Heat..

Pop recognized the obvious move in those series's:

Vs. Lakers: Green 23.2 MPG
Vs. Warriors: 35.7
Vs. Grizzlies: 28.4
Vs. Heat: 35.6

The Spurs need Leonard/Green to play 35+ minutes each in any series against quality shooting teams, obviously..

It's also obvious that the Spurs need another perimeter defender, but since there's no room at the 1/2, it'll have to be a Kirilenko type at the 3/4..



son this definitely needs to happen. Early in the season, I was getting pissed if opponents scored over 90 points in a game. Now allowing them to drop 30+ on us in a quarter is almost a given each game. I'd rather have a poor shooting Danny(but playing good D) starting and a hot shooting Marco making plays with Manu on the 2nd unit. Right now, all we have is a useless Marco on both ends of the court and the same old Icyhot in Danny coming off the bench.

[DMC]

Good writeup as usual.

I've said before that Leonard needs to utilize the midrange game more. He's capable of shooting over most of his defenders and his midrange shot is good. That also puts him in position for offensive rebounds.

Tiago/Tim is an awkward pairing but I think the real issue is Tim on the offensive end. He's good around the rim at times, and when he's on he's on, but the team spends much of the 1st half trying to get him going and it costs the team. The alternative might be worse however, in that they resort to staying away from Tim at the top of the key and opponents sag off him even more, clogging the lane. Tim has to make them respect his outside shot and right now I'd let him take it if I was the opposing coach, until he makes a few and changes my mind. The long rebounds are often instant points at the other end.

I like Diaw in the starting lineup, as long as there aren't too many offensive weapons on the floor and Diaw reverts to being a passer. It's not the bigs that are killing us on offense. It's the outside shooting. So having Kawhi coming off the bench wouldn't help when the opponents starters are the real 3pt threats. With two bigs in the paint, we need to run guys off the 3.

[Chinook]

What's killing the offense is that only one member of the starting unit can spread the floor. That will always lead to a less effective Spurs system. One of Leonard, Splitter or Duncan needs to be benched. And that's only if another can be a midrange threat.

I wonder how long Pop keeps Beli in the starting unit. He's getting less out of both him and Green now. This was always the risk in signing another two-guard instead of a legit three.

[itzsoweezee]

Popovich has to move Marco and Tiago to the bench and start Danny and Boris. A lineup with those five currently has a +38.4 net rating (Off: 110.2; Def: 71.9). It seems almost a no-brainer at this point.

[ElNono]

What's killing the offense is that only one member of the of the starting unit can spread the floor. That will always lead to a less effective Spurs system. One of Leonard, Splitter or Duncan needs to be benched. And that's only if another can be a midrange threat.

I wonder how long Pop keeps Beli in the starting unit. He's getting less out of both him and Green now. This was always the risk in signing another two-guard instead of a legit three.

Pop will give it a while, IMO. You don't want to make a change like that and get a small sample size. You also have to wonder how difficult it is to gauge stuff like this when some of your top guys are coasting quite a bit.

[HarlemHeat37]

^^
Marco being a terrible defender is nothing new, though:lol..

[Chinook]

Pop will give it a while, IMO. You don't want to make a change like that and get a small sample size. You also have to wonder how difficult it is to gauge stuff like this when some of your top guys are coasting quite a bit.

I want more data, so I'm fine with giving it more time. What's interesting is that Bruno posted the ORTGs of the starting unit with Green, Beli and Manu each in it and found that there wasn't a noticeable difference among them. That seems indicative that there's a bigger issue going on. We've been touching on that in this thread, but its possible Pop needs to see more in order to determine if he has to tweak his system or even bring in a new four who could start next to Duncan.

[DPG21920]

Why do people say the starting line up can't space the floor? The same starting lineup (TP, Green, KL, Tim/Tiago) spaced the floor fine last year. KL and DG didn't magically turn into terrible shooters.

It reminds me of Laker fan saying the Lakers have no 3 point shooting last year when they had Kobe/Blake/Meeks/Artest and others. The Kobe play led to bad shots, but all those guys had proven to be capable 3 point shooters before LA. Then to start the year in this system they magically started hitting 3's again.

I think that Tim's really poor start threw everything out of rhythm and didn't allow for Green/Kawhi to get their normal looks. Couple that with a less crisp TP and you have a pretty clear case of what's going on IMO.

[freetiago]

The Tiago/Tim pairing bad defense probably has to do with bad offense also tbh...
Spurs are probably taking more shots at the 3 and mid range which lead to long misses and transition baskets

a lot of these problems could also be fixed if Popovich wasnt a little bitch trying to micromanage every little detail tbh..
Splitter is young and in his prime
he can play 30 minutes a night
he gets time with the bench and starters
Diaw could also easily get in the 28-30 range
Leonard should be 36 a night no matter what unless hes having a bad game and Manu/Marco are both on then he would be taken off

[TampaDude]

It seemed like until the finals, the Duncan-Splitter pairing was working nicely. Don't know what happened tbh.

The Miami Heat happened. They were the best team in the NBA last season, and were the favorites to win it all. Spurs win = HUGE upset.

[Chinook]

Why do people say the starting line up can't space the floor? The same starting lineup (TP, Green, KL, Tim/Tiago) spaced the floor fine last year. KL and DG didn't magically turn into terrible shooters.

It reminds me of Laker fan saying the Lakers have no 3 point shooting last year when they had Kobe/Blake/Meeks/Artest and others. The Kobe play led to bad shots, but all those guys had proven to be capable 3 point shooters before LA. Then to start the year in this system they magically started hitting 3's again.

I think that Tim's really poor start threw everything out of rhythm and didn't allow for Green/Kawhi to get their normal looks. Couple that with a less crisp TP and you have a pretty clear case of what's going on IMO.

We say that because of two reasons: Leonard and Duncan HAVE seemingly lost their ability to space the floor. Kawhi's been worse than last year from three and Duncan's been worse from midrange. The second reason is that Parker is not playing well enough to take full advantage of the less-than-optimal spacing that existed last season. It's harder for him to beat his man and the help to the basket as consistently. He needs even better spacing to help him out. If teams keep letting Tim and Kawhi (and Tiago) shoot in favor of clogging the lane, the offense will continue to struggle

[DPG21920]

That's what I said essentially. I said TD's struggles to start the season really hurt. Coupled with TP playing less than stellar you have your answers. KL and DG aren't going to shoot poorly forever. TD won't either. TP will certainly play better once he stops coasting as much.

I guess the real disagreement is whether or not you think TD/TP will regain their form. I say yes so no need to make changes.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'm much more worried about where this team is at defensively than offensively right now:

* The Spurs’ victory was marred by another poor defensive performance, low-lighted by a 38-point Sacramento onslaught in the third quarter that threatened to bury them. It followed 40-point quarters for Oklahoma City and Houston in the previous four games.

The Spurs did tighten up in the fourth quarter, limiting the Kings to just 17 points on 33.3-percent shooting. Parker credited the improvement to a switch in the Spurs’ pick-and-roll defense, while Duncan was strong late against Cousins after Sacramento’s budding young star had rampaged for 29 points.

Overall, however, the Spurs are giving up 105.2 points per 100 possessions over the past 15 games to tie for 19th in that span. They’re still tied for fifth over the course of the full season at 98.8.


It could be that the team is coasting on the defensive end, as they still can look good when locked it. I'm sure they'll figure it out.

[spurs10]

Why do people say the starting line up can't space the floor? The same starting lineup (TP, Green, KL, Tim/Tiago) spaced the floor fine last year. KL and DG didn't magically turn into terrible shooters.

It reminds me of Laker fan saying the Lakers have no 3 point shooting last year when they had Kobe/Blake/Meeks/Artest and others. The Kobe play led to bad shots, but all those guys had proven to be capable 3 point shooters before LA. Then to start the year in this system they magically started hitting 3's again.

I think that Tim's really poor start threw everything out of rhythm and didn't allow for Green/Kawhi to get their normal looks. Couple that with a less crisp TP and you have a pretty clear case of what's going on IMO. I agree that Tim's poor mid-range shot has plenty to do with the rhythm being off. The bench with the "foreign legion" group of Beli, Manu, Boris, and Patty had a certain something for sure. The Green off the bench exiperiment won't last.

[mercos]

I agree on almost all counts. Diaw and Green should be starting. The current starting lineup just looks disjointed and sloppy. Spacing is terrible. People forget how locked in Duncan was last season. He was on fire with his midrange jumper almost all year. This season he has come back down to Earth. Danny just needs a little nudge at the start of each game to get going. If they can find him an easy layup early on, he usually has a good game. Boris has been playing fantastic lately, so starting him is almost a no brainer.

I think Splitter's play would improve with the bench unit as well. The second unit moves the ball much better than the starters. With both Manu and Marco distributing the ball, and no Parker and Duncan taking all the shots, Splitter would get a lot more finishes.

The Spurs are in need of some shake ups. Though their record is very good, they just haven't looked right all season. We have only seen flashes of the elite level they were at last year. Fortunately, the team has all the pieces they need to succeed. Its just a matter of putting them together correctly, which I think they will do long before playoff time.

[Chinook]

That's what I said essentially. I said TD's struggles to start the season really hurt. Coupled with TP playing less than stellar you have your answers. KL and DG aren't going to shoot poorly forever. TD won't either. TP will certainly play better once he stops coasting as much.

I guess the real disagreement is whether or not you think TD/TP will regain their form. I say yes so no need to make changes.

Leonard and Green are not in the same boat. Danny is not scoring because he's being tightly covered. Therefore, he is spacing the floor even while his PPG is low. Opponents are sagging off Leonard because he never really was a great shooter, and he can't make them pay. It's not really a slump with him, as he's never been even a below-average three-point shooter away from the corners. It's like opponents have figured out that he's the weak link in the Parker-centered offense.

Duncan is less effective from midrange because he's playing more inside than he did last season (subjectively at least). That's killing spacing. He has to move back out to fix it, but that could hurt his numbers. Also, he has to shoot well enough and often enough to force tight coverage. So it's not a matter of a bad start, really. Tim made a choice to move back into the paint. That's fine on its own, but if he and Splitter stay there, the offense can't improve much.

[EVAY]

One of the things I noticed last night when the Spurs started their comeback in the fourth quarter is that our defense really started putting the pressure on their tandem of Cousins and Thomas. Those two had been killing us on the pick and roll all during the third quarter. Then when Tim and Tony came back in, they really really focused on the pick and roll defense and stopped the momentum on the scoring that Cousins and Thomas had been getting done. The difference was amazing.

But what happened next was that Rudy Gay started making all of his shots, and it was a close run thing for us to pull back and then go ahead. When we turned off their pick and roll it was because Tim stayed on Thomas coming off the screen until Parker could get back into position around Cousins and then Tim very quickly got back to Cousins, denying Thomas the ability to send it back to him.

The fact that they had and effective third scorer in their offense was what made it far more difficult for us to come back all the way. Sac's inability to execute down the stretch was partly a function of our defense and partly a function of their youth and inexperience.

Again though, we can defend when we choose to do it. but having a third offensive scorer is a huge thing.

This year, we have really had inconsistent defense from everybody, and inconsistent third man scoring from both Green and Kawhi. If we can nail down the third man scoring business, I think we can go all the way. The defense will pick up as needed, imo.

[ElNono]

I'll be surprised if the Spurs make any drastic moves. Agree with DPG that the biggest improvement should come from TD/TP not coasting...

[Hoops Czar]

I think some are finally getting a sense why Beli wasn't resigned by the Bulls eventhough they had the means to do so. The Spurs were seventh in offensive efficiency last year. There is no way his offense offsets his terrible defense. Don't even get me started on Patty Mills. As for Danny Green, he massively overracheived last year and now, defenders aren't giving him any room to operate. When his offense suffers, it drags down his defense. As a whole, I'm not sure the way this team is presently constructed, they can improve much on the defesive end which is going to be a real problem in the playoffs.

[Hoops Czar]

I'll be surprised if the Spurs make any drastic moves. Agree with DPG that the biggest improvement should come from TD/TP not coasting...

You're really going out on the limb there. The Spurs rarely ever make a drastic move mid season even if they had the means to do so. They also won't make any drastic moves because they don't have any assets unless you consider De Colo and Bonner's expirings as assets. Most teams would dissagree

[exstatic]

The Belinelli experiment must end. Intuitively, you'd think that his skillset would help the starting group on offense because he can create and space the floor, but he's just been gawdawful as a starter. His FG% is 38 and his 3G% is 31, when off the bench his numbers are 53 and 51. He's started almost a third of the games, 7 of 24, so they've given it a chance.

[exstatic]

I think some are finally getting a sense why Beli wasn't resigned by the Bulls eventhough they had the means to do so. The Spurs were seventh in offensive efficiency last year. There is no way his offense offsets his terrible defense. Don't even get me started on Patty Mills. As for Danny Green, he massively overracheived last year and now, defenders aren't giving him any room to operate. When his offense suffers, it drags down his defense. As a whole, I'm not sure the way this team is presently constructed, they can improve much on the defesive end which is going to be a real problem in the playoffs.
They let him walk because they are in tax hell. They let a few players walk who may have commanded more than the minimum salary.

[jesterbobman]

The starting lineup being unable to score is an issue. They dominated last year, and most of the issue is that the spurs can't shoot 3's with that unit on the court. nbawowy.com has Danny Green at 1/14 in the starting lineup. Not great.

Fix to me is to Move Diaw to the starting lineup for Tiago, play Splitter in place of Ayres and play Bonner more, potentially trading for a PF with the contracts of Bonner/CoJo/Nando and the 1st. I'm sure some of the Amir/Thaddeus/Bass/... group of stretch(ish) Power forwards will be available for that sort of package, though it may be the low end of that group.

[ElNono]

You're really going out on the limb there. The Spurs rarely ever make a drastic move mid season even if they had the means to do so. They also won't make any drastic moves because they don't have any assets unless you consider De Colo and Bonner's expirings as assets. Most teams would dissagree

Well, they did trade for Nazr and dumped RJ at mid season. De Colo could be somebody they would shop, but I doubt Matty will be available, unless it's some crazy lopsided deal. IMO anyways.

[Chinook]

nbawowy.com has Danny Green at 1/14 in the starting lineup. Not great.

You mean Beli, right? Green actually shot a fine overall percentage from three.

[jesterbobman]

You mean Beli, right? Green actually shot a fine overall percentage from three.

I did mean Danny Green. Marco's 1/12 with the same 4. As always, there's a chance that there is a glitch of some kind.
It's really weird that Danny Green is shooting so well overall(42%), but so badly from 3 with the starting lineup. Only taking 14 3's in the 135 minutes seems low, so could be a glitch. I'm not going to run through game logs to check though.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's difficult to watch the Spurs at the moment while Pop is deploying these shitty rotations, tbh..

Having Beli as a starter, as well as having Beli-Manu against opposing starters, reminds me too much of 2011, tbh, the Spurs can't stop anybody with this rotation, as expected..

The Spurs' changed as a team once Green and Leonard became the wing stopping duo, it's a shame that Pop is giving up on the combination and reverting to an offensive strategy..

[TD 21]

I don't see how he's reverting to an offensive strategy, when he refuses to go away from the two center starting lineup, as well as insert Bonner into the rotation.

You're giving him too credit by presuming there's any rhyme or reason to what he's doing. He's clearly just throwing shit against the wall and hoping it sticks.

[HarlemHeat37]

Beli scoring 30+ points but giving up nearly 30 points to one of the worst starters in the NBA is symbolic of my point, tbh:lol..

[timtonymanu]

People will look at his offensive numbers and not be mad, but he was one of the reasons we lost tonight.

End this stupid Marco experiment and start Danny Green again.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

People will look at his offensive numbers and not be mad, but he was one of the reasons we lost tonight.

End this stupid Marco experiment and start Danny Green again.

and start Boris over Tiago

[cd021]

and start Boris over Tiago

Yes. Splitter has experience playing with Manu. Move Marco back to the bench.

Mills-Belinelli-Manu-Bonner/Ayers-Splitter

[Chinook]

and start Boris over Tiago

Or trade whatever is necessary outside the rotation players for Amir Johnson.

This was horrible. Pop is really failing to help Leonard and Green to become better players. He's been jerking them around all year. They are the keys to the team improving, not Beli.

[Johnny RIngo]

Anybody else worried that our coaching staff is comprised of Ime Udoka, Sean Marks, and Jim Boylens? Last year Pop had Budenholzer/Brett Brown to keep him in check, at least. The guy most familiar with the Spurs system this year is Udoka who's only been coaching for two years. The most experienced of the three is Boylens, the guy that brought Jeff Ayres to San Antonio.

[HarlemHeat37]

I also find it interesting that there are so many morons on ST saying, "but Leonard fit into the same system in the playoffs last year":lol..

Leonard played 36% of his minutes in last year's playoffs at the PF position, and if you only look at the Finals, at least 60% of his playing time was at the PF position..

It's evident that since his 3-point shot stopped falling, he has become useless playing with Duncan/Splitter, tbh..

To piggyback Chinook's point, I don't understand why Popovich can't run a few post plays for Leonard and a few screen plays for Green to get them going, rather than running screens all game for Beli, a natural scorer that has an aggressive mentality..

When you don't run plays for players that need to be put in specific positions to score, they start forcing their offense, and in the case of Leonard and especially Green, they aren't built to score in triple threat positions..it hurts their game, and it hurts the team, because you're forced to play Marco/Manu, a terrible defensive pairing against starting opposition..

If Popovich stubbornly believes the Spurs are going to make another run behind Parker/Duncan taking all the possessions, he's going to look foolish, tbh..

[Mikeanaro]

Anybody else worried that our coaching staff is comprised of Ime Udoka, Sean Marks, and Jim Boylens? Last year Pop had Budenholzer/Brett Brown to keep him in check, at least. The guy most familiar with the Spurs system this year is Udoka who's only been coaching for two years. The most experienced of the three is Boylens, the guy that brought Jeff Ayres to San Antonio.
Of course, Boylens must be happy thinking THE TEAM HAS A GOOD WINNING % I DID THE RIGHT THING BRINGING JEFF HERE!

[Chinook]

Why can't Green take Parker's place in The Loop (the triple screen play the Spurs run a few times a game) to get some open looks? Why not give Kawhi a post up or two when Diaw enters the game? The New Two need to have some goto plays when Parker gets shut down. They need to be able to prevent cross matches.

Pop starting Beli suggests he wants someone who can score without having plays called for him. That doesn't really make sense if he continues to have Parker and Duncan dominate the ball.

[TheGoldStandard]

Why can't Green take Parker's place in The Loop (the triple screen play the Spurs run a few times a game) to get some open looks? Why not give Kawhi a post up or two when Diaw enters the game? The New Two need to have some goto plays when Parker gets shut down. They need to be able to prevent cross matches.

Pop starting Beli suggests he wants someone who can score without having plays called for him. That doesn't really make sense if he continues to have Parker and Duncan dominate the ball.

Doesn't know any other way.. that's the best case/ worst case when you have Duncan/Parker on your team you don't have to change your philosophy even after years of doing the same thing because they execute.. We see the deficiency now because of the failed play by Tim/TP.

[Sean Cagney]

Anybody else worried that our coaching staff is comprised of Ime Udoka, Sean Marks, and Jim Boylens? Last year Pop had Budenholzer/Brett Brown to keep him in check, at least. The guy most familiar with the Spurs system this year is Udoka who's only been coaching for two years. The most experienced of the three is Boylens, the guy that brought Jeff Ayres to San Antonio.
I agree with you. Coaching staff dropoff is huge IMO so far this year.

[MR-Clutch]

Anybody else worried that our coaching staff is comprised of Ime Udoka, Sean Marks, and Jim Boylens? Last year Pop had Budenholzer/Brett Brown to keep him in check, at least. The guy most familiar with the Spurs system this year is Udoka who's only been coaching for two years. The most experienced of the three is Boylens, the guy that brought Jeff Ayres to San Antonio.

This. I'm also scared it's hurting the development of our young players.

[Raven]

Beli scoring 30+ points but giving up nearly 30 points to one of the worst starters in the NBA is symbolic of my point, tbh:lol..

that's what i've been saying would happen all along tbh.. by the time the season ends you will all hate this guy as much as i do.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan lineup with a +20 tonight and looked dominant, tbh..

Leonard thriving with increased spacing/touches, without Duncan/Splitter duo clogging the paint through these first 2 games..

[wildchild]

The Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan lineup with a +20 tonight and looked dominant, tbh..

Leonard thriving with increased spacing/touches, without Duncan/Splitter duo clogging the paint through these first 2 games..


:tu You were right when you opened the thread.

Sad. This lineup is just temporary in Manu and Tiago absences.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol a lot of niggas biting Harlem's observation a few weeks later, tbh..I should make a shitty blog, tbh..

[BacktoBasics]

Of course, Boylens must be happy thinking THE TEAM HAS A GOOD WINNING % I DID THE RIGHT THING BRINGING JEFF HERE!How would you know if he's happy or not?

[ChumpDumper]

that's what i've been saying would happen all along tbh.. by the time the season ends you will all hate this guy as much as i do.No one could possibly hate him as much as you.

[hater]

Belli saved Manu's dwindling career and his status with spursfans. That's definitely gotta amount to something.

As I called it before the season started, the Ferrari pretty much extended Spurs dominance for at least 1 more year. :tu

[Raven]

No one could possibly hate him as much as you.

bump