Duncan quietly closing in on double double leader

[jdelar03]

Duncan is steadily closing in to become the all time double double leader just another meaning less but interesting feather in his cap. According to espn stats http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/215/tim-duncan Duncan currently has 780 double doubles all time only 31 behind db karl malones 811. Duncan great and as steady as they come as always win or lose it's great to be a Spurs fan.:flag:

[Seventyniner]

With 46 games left, it's highly doubtful that Duncan will get 31 more double-doubles. He just won't play enough minutes (or games, for that matter).

He should get it sometime in December or January next season.

[Hoops Czar]

Duncan is steadily closing in to become the all time double double leader just another meaning less but interesting feather in his cap. According to espn stats http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/215/tim-duncan Duncan currently has 780 double doubles all time only 31 behind db karl malones 811. Duncan great and as steady as they come as always win or lose it's great to be a Spurs fan.:flag:


And Malone is only 157 Double Doubles behind Wilt Chamberlain, 83 behind Moses Malone, 79 behind Elvin Hayes and 74 behind KAJ. But yeah, he's moving up the chart.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And Malone is only 157 Double Doubles behind Wilt Chamberlain, 83 behind Moses Malone, 79 behind Elvin Hayes and 74 behind KAJ. But yeah, he's moving up the chart.

:lmao Jabbar is 83 behind Wilt and he still played 8 more years.

Easily the most overrated player in sports.

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao Jabbar is 83 behind Wilt and he still played 8 more years.

Easily the most overrated player in sports.

Yeah, because the era Wilt played in had nothing to do with that.

Unless you want to compare Wilt to Duncan straight up, in which case Wilt's numbers basically destroy anything Duncan has ever done.

[johnpaulwall21]

fuck 60s nba/aba. I don't count any of that shit. wilt against teams full of midgets. no way he would get any of those stats even in todays nba.

[SpursFan86]

:lmao Jabbar is 83 behind Wilt and he still played 8 more years.

Easily the most overrated player in sports.

You have no idea what basketball in the 50s/60s was like, do you? There's a little something called "pace". What, you think Wilt/Russell were just so much better at rebounding than Dennis Rodman that they averaged nearly 10 more rpg consistently than Rodman's best rebounding season ever? Not to mention the competition wasn't equal.

I'm not even trying to hate on Wilt. But just bringing up raw box score numbers as some sort of proof he was clearly superior to everyone else makes you look ignorant.

Let me ask this: do you seriously think Wilt could average 50 ppg/25 rpg in today's league? Or even in the 80s?

[SpursFan86]

It's pretty funny a Spurs (and I'm assuming, Duncan) fan would hate on Kareem and call him the most overrated player ever. They're pretty similar. Two athletes who have had some of the best longevity in basketball history, amazing defenders who could also carry the offensive load of a team (Duncan was a bit better on defense, but Kareem was unquestionably better offensively), won several titles with the same team...what about Duncan is so different than Kareem?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You have no idea what basketball in the 50s/60s was like, do you? There's a little something called "pace". What, you think Wilt/Russell were just so much better at rebounding than Dennis Rodman that they averaged nearly 10 more rpg consistently than Rodman's best rebounding season ever? Not to mention the competition wasn't equal.

I'm not even trying to hate on Wilt. But just bringing up raw box score numbers as some sort of proof he was clearly superior to everyone else makes you look ignorant.

Let me ask this: do you seriously think Wilt could average 50 ppg/25 rpg in today's league? Or even in the 80s?

I have a notion that it had much more to do with the rules and shooting percentages. I forget when the rule was changed but you used to be able to throw the ball off the backboard and go get it. That counted as a board. He kicked so much ass with it that they changed the rules.

I have actually watched a lot of Chamberlain. They showed old NBA film at basketball camp every year and I have always had an appreciation for it.

All of this is besides the point because Chamberlain and Jabbar were contemporaries. People just associate Jabbar with the current era because he played for 22 years.

[SpursFan86]

I have a notion that it had much more to do with the rules and shooting percentages. I forget when the rule was changed but you used to be able to throw the ball off the backboard and go get it. That counted as a board. He kicked so much ass with it that they changed the rules.

I have actually watched a lot of Chamberlain. They showed old NBA film at basketball camp every year and I have always had an appreciation for it.

All of this is besides the point because Chamberlain and Jabbar were contemporaries. People just associate Jabbar with the current era because he played for 22 years.

Wilt played from '59-'73. Kareem played from '69-'89. I'd hardly call them contemporaries. Kareem still had great success even in the 80s when he was 30+ years old. Dude averaged 20+ ppg every season until he was 39 years old in '87.

I don't associate Kareem with the current era, but I certainly think he played in a more comparable era (to today's league) than Wilt. When Kareem played in the early 70s where basketball was more similar to Wilt's era, he was averaging 30+ ppg and over 15 rpg.

I just don't see how Kareem is overrated at all...much less the most overrated player ever. He's undeniably a top 5 player of all-time.

[cd021]

All of this is besides the point because Chamberlain and Jabbar were contemporaries. People just associate Jabbar with the current era because he played for 22 years.

Thats a bit misleading. Wilt retired in 74, i believe, Kareem came in in '69. They played 5 seasons in the NBA together then Kareem played 15 more seasons. They were as much contemporaries as Duncan and Patrick Ewing were. Wilt was much older than Kareem.

Wilt was an freak of nature, and way before his time. He was a legit 7'1 and athletic back then. He could absolutely dominate the league with his size on top of skill.

[cd021]

fuck 60s nba/aba. I don't count any of that shit. wilt against teams full of midgets. no way he would get any of those stats even in todays nba.

That makes Russel a bit overrated too. It was an 8 team league. 13 titles in 14 seasons, before free agency. It was essentially a keeper league. A team drafts well and they have a guy for 14 seasons. Duncan winning 4 titles in 9 seasons is every bit the equal to that in modern day standards.

[AntiChrist]

lol, FuzzyLumpshitz destroyed in this thread

[Skull-1]

It's pretty funny a Spurs (and I'm assuming, Duncan) fan would hate on Kareem and call him the most overrated player ever. They're pretty similar. Two athletes who have had some of the best longevity in basketball history, amazing defenders who could also carry the offensive load of a team (Duncan was a bit better on defense, but Kareem was unquestionably better offensively), won several titles with the same team...what about Duncan is so different than Kareem?


They are so similar Duncan could play Kareem's part in "Airplane!" right now. Almost the same age. Same build. It is too funny.

[Skull-1]

lol, FuzzyLumpshitz destroyed in this thread


Per par.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wilt played from '59-'73. Kareem played from '69-'89. I'd hardly call them contemporaries. Kareem still had great success even in the 80s when he was 30+ years old. Dude averaged 20+ ppg every season until he was 39 years old in '87.

I don't associate Kareem with the current era, but I certainly think he played in a more comparable era (to today's league) than Wilt. When Kareem played in the early 70s where basketball was more similar to Wilt's era, he was averaging 30+ ppg and over 15 rpg.

I just don't see how Kareem is overrated at all...much less the most overrated player ever. He's undeniably a top 5 player of all-time.

:lol similar era

Jabbar's heyday was in the ABA era where he could duck everyone from Moses Malone to Artis Gilmore. Half of the all star big men were in the ABA. It is quite easily the most watered down era of pro basketball. Jabbar couldn't get anywhere during said watered down era as he missed the playoffs, had early exits etc. Compare that to the 60's where there were only 8 ball clubs and they had HoF on them like Thurmond, Lucas, and Russell. Wilt was in game 7 of the ECF yearr after year succumbing to the greatest team of all time.

The league saw a dozen or so expansion teams during Jabbar's career.

Quite frankly, the more you write the less I see you as having a legitimate historical perspective.

Jabbar played a long time and had the benefit during his career of playing with the two best PG of all time who carried him to championships. In the interim between them he himself led mediocre team after mediocre team and his MVP's in that shitty watered down league are laughable. He is overrated precisely because some want to label him GOAT.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

lol, FuzzyLumpshitz destroyed in this thread

on what points am I being destroyed? I bet you don't have the capacity to articulate any at all.

it is funny that you and tweedledum are trolling me like this. Ass still chapped?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

fuck 60s nba/aba. I don't count any of that shit. wilt against teams full of midgets. no way he would get any of those stats even in todays nba.

the 60s NBA was before expansion and the early portion before the ABA had great collections of talent.

Before 1965 there were 8 teams and guys like Lucas Thurmond Russell and Wilt. Compare that to today where DeJuan Blair starts at C amongst 30 other teams.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thats a bit misleading. Wilt retired in 74, i believe, Kareem came in in '69. They played 5 seasons in the NBA together then Kareem played 15 more seasons. They were as much contemporaries as Duncan and Patrick Ewing were. Wilt was much older than Kareem.

Wilt was an freak of nature, and way before his time. He was a legit 7'1 and athletic back then. He could absolutely dominate the league with his size on top of skill.

And to revisit this. Ewing played until he was 40; whereas, Wilt stepped down at age 36. It would be like saying that Duncan is a contemporary of David Robinson who retired at age 37.

[SpursFan86]

"The more you write the less I see you as having a legitimate historical perspective" --> proceeds to say Oscar Robertson carried Kareem to a championship in '71. Seriously?

The year before Kareem came to LA, they were arguably the worst team in the league. You seriously knock him for not coming in and immediately leading them to success? First year he was there they were 10 games better than the previous year. 2nd year he was there they lost in the 2nd (maybe 3rd, can't remember) round to Walton's Trail Blazers who won the title that year. The next two years he lost to the Sonics who were a flat-out better team than LA, and it wasn't because Kareem wasn't good enough. Those '78/'79 Sonics teams just had more talent. They made the Finals in both years and just had more talent than those Lakers teams. If you really want to knock Kareem for not being able to carry clearly inferior Lakers teams over the superior Sonics, then go for it I guess.

As for Kareem/Magic: it's a two way street. No shit Kareem benefited from playing with Magic. But you're delusional if you don't think Kareem was a huge part of Magic's success. Please don't even think about pointing to the closeout game of the '80 Finals as some sort of proof that Magic didn't need Kareem to win a title that year. It was a mutual beneficial relationship on the court. Not to mention Kareem was 32+ years old by the time the 80s came around...you really expected him to carry teams to a title all by himself? How many titles has Duncan carried the Spurs to since he turned 32?

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone label Kareem the GOAT...pretty sure MJ is the consensus GOAT. I hear Russell brought up as his competition far more than Kareem. I just hear people say Kareem is a top-5 player of all-time and 2nd best scorer of all-time behind MJ. I don't see the problem with those labels.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's pretty funny a Spurs (and I'm assuming, Duncan) fan would hate on Kareem and call him the most overrated player ever. They're pretty similar. Two athletes who have had some of the best longevity in basketball history, amazing defenders who could also carry the offensive load of a team (Duncan was a bit better on defense, but Kareem was unquestionably better offensively), won several titles with the same team...what about Duncan is so different than Kareem?

You look at the roster on the 03 and 05 chamionships. Who on those rosters was comparable to prime Johnson or Robertson? Duncan carried those two teams mostly by himself.

Or better yet who on any Spurs roster over the past 17 years is comparable to Kermit Washington who Jabbar would literally hide behind. In 71, Jabbar ran into the stands when Chamberlain stepped to him after he flattened Goodrich on a cheap shot.

As for a physical comparison, it's laughable. Duncan lost 25 or so pounds lately but in his heyday he was hardly the leaping gazelle Jabbar was. Jabbar was as athletic as Deandre Jordan. Duncan has always been known a s a good athlete who played elite because of his skill.

I think a better question is what on earth post moves do you think Jabbar used that Duncan did. You see Duncan jumping over people with his sky hook ad nauseum? This look like Duncan to you?

EwHP04TWOps

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"The more you write the less I see you as having a legitimate historical perspective" --> proceeds to say Oscar Robertson carried Kareem to a championship in '71. Seriously?

The year before Kareem came to LA, they were arguably the worst team in the league. You seriously knock him for not coming in and immediately leading them to success? First year he was there they were 10 games better than the previous year. 2nd year he was there they lost in the 2nd (maybe 3rd, can't remember) round to Walton's Trail Blazers who won the title that year. The next two years he lost to the Sonics who were a flat-out better team than LA, and it wasn't because Kareem wasn't good enough. Those '78/'79 Sonics teams just had more talent. They made the Finals in both years and just had more talent than those Lakers teams. If you really want to knock Kareem for not being able to carry clearly inferior Lakers teams over the superior Sonics, then go for it I guess.

As for Kareem/Magic: it's a two way street. No shit Kareem benefited from playing with Magic. But you're delusional if you don't think Kareem was a huge part of Magic's success. Please don't even think about pointing to the closeout game of the '80 Finals as some sort of proof that Magic didn't need Kareem to win a title that year. It was a mutual beneficial relationship on the court. Not to mention Kareem was 32+ years old by the time the 80s came around...you really expected him to carry teams to a title all by himself? How many titles has Duncan carried the Spurs to since he turned 32?

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone label Kareem the GOAT...pretty sure MJ is the consensus GOAT. I hear Russell brought up as his competition far more than Kareem. I just hear people say Kareem is a top-5 player of all-time and 2nd best scorer of all-time behind MJ. I don't see the problem with those labels.

:lol Immediately lead to success? More like never. In the 8 year interim between Oscar and Magic you have a whole bunch of nothing.

And if you don't see Jabbar in the discussion of GOAT then I don't know what to tell you. Google is your friend. Its rather common.

[SpursFan86]

I listed the reasons for calling them pretty similar, which as far as I know, doesn't equate to "identical". No, they did not use the same post moves. No, they didn't act identical. They were both transcendent big men on both sides of the ball (how many players can you say that for?) and experienced unreal longevity spending nearly 15 years with the same team while winning championships. They're not fucking twins...just have some similarities. No need to point out every difference in their careers.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I listed the reasons for calling them pretty similar, which as far as I know, doesn't equate to "identical". No, they did not use the same post moves. No, they didn't act identical. They were both transcendent big men on both sides of the ball (how many players can you say that for?) and experienced unreal longevity spending nearly 15 years with the same team while winning championships. They're not fucking twins...just have some similarities. No need to point out every difference in their careers.

Your reasons were 'good at defense' and 'good at offense.' It was so generalized as to be meaningless. What's next? They both play basketball?

Transcendent? WTF is that supposed to mean? Good?

And Duncan played for one team. How many teams does Alcindor/Jabbar have rings with? Hmm...

[SpursFan86]

They were both big men who had an elite impact on both sides of the ball and played well over 10 years with the same team while winning several championships. Answer the question: how many players can you say that for?

Kareem winning a ring in '71 has nothing to do with him playing 14 seasons in LA and winning 5 rings there. Winning 5 championships in a 14-year tenure with a single team isn't common by any means. Similarly, Duncan has won 4 rings in 16 (going on 17) seasons with the Spurs.

Also, how many players have played at an elite level past 35 like both Duncan and Kareem?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They were both big men who had an elite impact on both sides of the ball and played well over 10 years with the same team while winning several championships. Answer the question: how many players can you say that for?

Kareem winning a ring in '71 has nothing to do with him playing 14 seasons in LA and winning 5 rings there. Winning 5 championships in a 14-year tenure with a single team isn't common by any means. Similarly, Duncan has won 4 rings in 16 (going on 17) seasons with the Spurs.

Also, how many players have played at an elite level past 35 like both Duncan and Kareem?

Most HoF big men in history? Jabbar played until he was 42. If Duncan plays 3 more years then the comparisons make sense.

Robinson won a championship at age 37 and retired.
Ewing played until he was 40.
Malone played until 39.
Mutombo played until 42.
Olajuwon played until 39.
O'Neal played until 38.
Parish played until he was 43.

Shall I go on?

And Alcindor playing for the Bucks means that he didn't play for just one team. Duncan only played for one team. It is a distinction and not a point of comparison.

[SpursFan86]

Lmfao. Ewing, Mutombo, and Malone lead their respective teams to a grand total of zero championships. Parish was no where near the caliber of either Kareem or Duncan. You're seriously reaching now. And

Shaq? Isn't the whole argument of TD > Shaq based upon Duncan having way better longevity? Shaq was constantly injured after turning 35 and couldn't stay on a team. No one will remember what Shaq did after turning 35 ("Shaq played for the Celtics?"). Duncan was the driving force of a team that almost took down LeBron's Heat and Kareem was a big part of 3 titles after turning 35.

I guess I'll give you Robinson. I think nearly everyone who watches basketball would agree he wasn't nearly as great of a player into his mid/late-30s as Duncan/Kareem. He definitely wasn't great offensively past 35. Do you honestly believe Robinson had a similar type of impact Duncan/Kareem had in their late 30s?

I'll give you Hakeem. He wasn't nearly as successful as Duncan/Kareem though.

When I say Duncan and Kareem have insane longevity, I'm not simply talking about the fact they still played into their late 30s. I'm referring to the fact they still had huge impacts on their teams and were big parts of their team's success despite being in their late 30s. Several players have played into their late 30s...not many of them have still made huge contributions to successful teams at that age.

I never said Kareem only played for one team. I said he played with the same team for nearly 15 years and won 5 titles with that same team. Duncan has played 16 years with the same team and won 4 titles. That IS a point of comparison. I don't see how you could argue otherwise. "Both players had a 10+ year tenure with a team and won several titles during that tenure"...how does that not count as a point of comparison??? Because it was Kareem's 2nd tenure with a team? I'll refer back to "I said they're pretty similar, not identical".

[Arcadian]

It's pretty funny a Spurs (and I'm assuming, Duncan) fan would hate on Kareem and call him the most overrated player ever. They're pretty similar. Two athletes who have had some of the best longevity in basketball history, amazing defenders who could also carry the offensive load of a team (Duncan was a bit better on defense, but Kareem was unquestionably better offensively), won several titles with the same team...what about Duncan is so different than Kareem?

Not necessarily. In terms of points per game maybe, but in terms of offensive skill, Timmy was/is more versatile, could score in more ways, had better passing and ball handling skills. Especially in his younger days, he was doing some crazy shit offensively that no one had ever seen a 7-footer do before. Kareem had exactly one shot, the skyhook. Granted, it was the most effective shot in history...but still, he was utterly one dimensional on offense.

But I agree with your broader point that Tim and Kareem have a lot in common. Tim is the modern Kareem. If you put Tim in the NBA 1969-89, he would be the one with 6 titles and 6 MVPs. (Interestingly, they were both 10x All-NBA First Team.)

[SpursFan86]

I agree with your broader point that Tim and Kareem have a lot in common. Tim is the modern Kareem.

This is really all I was trying to say. I was never trying to say they played identically or had the exact same career paths. Just that their careers have quite a few similarites:

- drafted by a small-market team 1st overall
- led that team to a championship backed by an aging legend (Big O for Kareem, David Robinson for Duncan)
- had an elite impact on both sides of the ball
- spent a very long time (well over 10 years) with a team while making huge contributions to several championships in that span
- played late into their 30s while maintaining an extremely high level of play

Is that really so hard to see, Fuzzy? How many other players fit all of that criteria?

edit: and as for your comments about Duncan vs. Kareem offensively: I agree that Duncan was a more versatile scorer and better passer/ball-handler. But the fact remains...Kareem, despite having a "limited" offensive arsenal, was the 2nd greatest scorer of all-time. I think it's a pretty big reach to say Duncan has had the same level of impact offensively.

[chazley]

Wilt gets no fuckin credit. Go ahead and look ONLY at games he played against the Celtics/Bill Russell (greatest defensive player of all time and could match his height). Wilt averaged 28.7 points and 28.7 rebounds a game. He still put up absolutely LUDICROUS numbers. If you haven't read about it, go look up the story about Wilt/Arnold Schwarzenegger. Wilt benched over 500 pounds, which is absolutely incredible because bench press is even harder the longer your arms is. For comparison's sake, Shaq is/was considered the most dominant physical force in NBA history when he was at his peak. His known max bench press is 450 pounds.

Wilt bench pressed 465 pounds at the age of 59.

Here the is a great write-up about Wilt vs Russell: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080514232551AA74Eml

Wilt is likely the greatest athletic freak to ever be witnessed in the past ~100 years.

[timmy2003]

Wilt gets no fuckin credit. Go ahead and look ONLY at games he played against the Celtics/Bill Russell (greatest defensive player of all time and could match his height). Wilt averaged 28.7 points and 28.7 rebounds a game. He still put up absolutely LUDICROUS numbers. If you haven't read about it, go look up the story about Wilt/Arnold Schwarzenegger. Wilt benched over 500 pounds, which is absolutely incredible because bench press is even harder the longer your arms is. For comparison's sake, Shaq is/was considered the most dominant physical force in NBA history when he was at his peak. His known max bench press is 450 pounds.

Wilt bench pressed 465 pounds at the age of 59.

Here the is a great write-up about Wilt vs Russell: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080514232551AA74Eml

Wilt is likely the greatest athletic freak to ever be witnessed in the past ~100 years.

Yea, with his height, his athleticism is truly impressive

[Kidd K]

Early days NBA stats count about as much as the dead ball era in baseball does. Most will just throw those stats out because they look ludicrous by comparison to modern day basketball.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lmfao. Ewing, Mutombo, and Malone lead their respective teams to a grand total of zero championships. Parish was no where near the caliber of either Kareem or Duncan. You're seriously reaching now. And

Shaq? Isn't the whole argument of TD > Shaq based upon Duncan having way better longevity? Shaq was constantly injured after turning 35 and couldn't stay on a team. No one will remember what Shaq did after turning 35 ("Shaq played for the Celtics?"). Duncan was the driving force of a team that almost took down LeBron's Heat and Kareem was a big part of 3 titles after turning 35.

I guess I'll give you Robinson. I think nearly everyone who watches basketball would agree he wasn't nearly as great of a player into his mid/late-30s as Duncan/Kareem. He definitely wasn't great offensively past 35. Do you honestly believe Robinson had a similar type of impact Duncan/Kareem had in their late 30s?

I'll give you Hakeem. He wasn't nearly as successful as Duncan/Kareem though.

When I say Duncan and Kareem have insane longevity, I'm not simply talking about the fact they still played into their late 30s. I'm referring to the fact they still had huge impacts on their teams and were big parts of their team's success despite being in their late 30s. Several players have played into their late 30s...not many of them have still made huge contributions to successful teams at that age.

I never said Kareem only played for one team. I said he played with the same team for nearly 15 years and won 5 titles with that same team. Duncan has played 16 years with the same team and won 4 titles. That IS a point of comparison. I don't see how you could argue otherwise. "Both players had a 10+ year tenure with a team and won several titles during that tenure"...how does that not count as a point of comparison??? Because it was Kareem's 2nd tenure with a team? I'll refer back to "I said they're pretty similar, not identical".

I can argue otherwise because Kareem played 1/4 of his career in the midwest. He was not a single team player and it should be a point of distinction. While it may be convenient to your comparison to gloss that over it still is what it is.

Moses Malone never won a title late in his career? You really suck at history. Further your notion is that Kareem and Duncan played at a high level post age 35 (what age was Duncan at his last title?), I am just indicating that all star big men typically play at a high level into their late 30s. Its common amongst every all star big man absent injury. That is another point of difference. Duncan has a degenerative knee condition making his high level admirable. Jabbar never had a similar injury.

Duncan's last championship was in 2007 at age 32. Your comparison as a one team player or elder champion is stupid. Further, Kareem still was carried by the greatest PG of all time in Magic. When Kareem was Duncans championship age, he was getting swept out by Bill Walton when he actually managed to make the playoffs or out of the first round.

When the Spurs manage to get the first pick and have said pick carry the team and Duncan to 5 titles you let me know. They don't even play the same position. What you are doing amounts to little more than name dropping. Might as well throw out Russell, Bird, Magic and Jordan while you are at it. They meet your criteria as well.

You still drop the other 4 C I listed you ignore the discussion of their actual career paths. You just keep parroting 15 years 5 titles as if that somehow mitigates any of that. Frankly, comparing the greatest PF of all time to that faggot C that used to run and hide behind Kermit Washington makes me sick to my stomach.

[SpursFan86]

I can argue otherwise because Kareem played 1/4 of his career in the midwest. He was not a single team player and it should be a point of distinction. While it may be convenient to your comparison to gloss that over it still is what it is.

Moses Malone never won a title late in his career? You really suck at history. Further your notion is that Kareem and Duncan played at a high level post age 35 (what age was Duncan at his last title?), I am just indicating that all star big men typically play at a high level into their late 30s. Its common amongst every all star big man absent injury. That is another point of difference. Duncan has a degenerative knee condition making his high level admirable. Jabbar never had a similar injury.

Duncan's last championship was in 2007 at age 32. Your comparison as a one team player or elder champion is stupid. Further, Kareem still was carried by the greatest PG of all time in Magic. When Kareem was Duncans championship age, he was getting swept out by Bill Walton when he actually managed to make the playoffs or out of the first round.

When the Spurs manage to get the first pick and have said pick carry the team and Duncan to 5 titles you let me know. They don't even play the same position. What you are doing amounts to little more than name dropping. Might as well throw out Russell, Bird, Magic and Jordan while you are at it. They meet your criteria as well.

You still drop the other 4 C I listed you ignore the discussion of their actual career paths. You just keep parroting 15 years 5 titles as if that somehow mitigates any of that. Frankly, comparing the greatest PF of all time to that faggot C that used to run and hide behind Kermit Washington makes me sick to my stomach.

My bad...for some reason I thought you were referring to Karl Malone rather than Moses.

I'm not going to keep going in some dumb circular argument. I'm leaving it at this:


This is really all I was trying to say. I was never trying to say they played identically or had the exact same career paths. Just that their careers have quite a few similarites:

- drafted by a small-market team 1st overall
- led that team to a championship backed by an aging legend (Big O for Kareem, David Robinson for Duncan)
- had an elite impact on both sides of the ball
- spent a very long time (well over 10 years) with a team while making huge contributions to several championships in that span
- played late into their 30s while maintaining an extremely high level of play

Is that really so hard to see, Fuzzy?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My bad...for some reason I thought you were referring to Karl Malone rather than Moses.

I'm not going to keep going in some dumb circular argument. I'm leaving it at this:

It's only going around in circles because you do not address my points or rebuttals.

Robertson was not a Buck when Kareem entered the league. He was brought in after the fact when it was obvious Alcindor wasn't going to do anything on his own. Being old is about the end of the Robertson/Robinson comparison. If you cannot see the difference between a guy coming in and taking the team as is to a title versus having to trade for a guy after the fact then I don't know what to tell you.

Lets point out the differences:

-They don't play the same position.
-If you actually watched them play, they look nothing alike. Jabbar's game was using his long arms and leaping ability to put up a shot that only Wilt seemed able to get to. Duncan had a post game that in his prime used a jump hook over either shoulder as well as various drop steps and faceups across the lane. Duncan also was better out of the H or L post with his passing and perimeter jumper. Kareem relied on his size and athleticism. Duncan NEVER has.
-Duncan played for one team for his whole career. Jabbar did not.
-Duncan was clearly the best player on all of his championship teams. Kareem was clearly inferior to Magic when he was 37 years old. You do recall the famous tip that Magic took when Kareem was hurt and could not play? You know the game they won without his unnecessary ass?
-Kareem during his prime was mediocre in a watered down league with half the talent in the ABA. He missed the playoffs or saw first round exits time and again. He never won a championship during those prime years. He instead benefited from playing with Magic and got 5 titles late. Duncan OTOH carried at least 2 of his titles in his prime.
-Kareem won 5 titles thanks to Magic after age 35. Duncan has won none. I just showed you a dozen 'big men' that played well late into their careers. It's incredibly common and a poor point of comparison.
-Kareem was a coward who would pick on guards and then run from other teams enforcers when they took issue. He ran from Wilt into the stands after he floored Goodrich and the Lakers had to get Washington to protect the pansie. Duncan maybe stoic but he is not a coward.

[Arcadian]

Kareem, despite having a "limited" offensive arsenal, was the 2nd greatest scorer of all-time. I think it's a pretty big reach to say Duncan has had the same level of impact offensively.

It's just funny how Kareem did all that scoring with one shot. That's not to detract from his accomplishments; if he could shoot one shot and still dominate the game, then more power to him. But there's definitely something more impressive about a player who can score in a multitude of ways, namely Duncan and Olajuwon. It's just a difference of style. With Kareem, defenders knew exactly what he was going to do every time he had the ball, and they still couldn't stop it. With Tim/Hakeem, they had so many moves that defenders never knew exactly what was coming. Neither approach is right or wrong, it's just an interesting contrast. Tim and Hakeem have more impressive highlights, if nothing else. :lol