Ken Berger of CBS is reporting Spurs aggressively looking to make trade

[monkeypunk]

Joseph is physically built for the post-season, and his strengths are better suited for games that matter. Especially since this season, the bench has two play-makers (or will when Beli moves back). I think Pop really likes Cory, which is the primary reason why I think he'll replace Mills.

I think Pop likes aspects of Joseph's game but the kid doesn't pass well and hasn't learned to shoot yet or isn't aggresive / confident enough to find his spots. He's been playing not to lose rather than playing to win since he's been here and doesn't seem to have the drive to get better. At least in the small sample size so far.

To me, he's a single faceted player like Mills was last year but Mills started defending a bit better so he's earned his role. If Joseph was really going to get better, he'd be working on expanding other pieces of his game but I'm not sure he'll ever have the confidence to earn a solid spot on the rotation.

Joseph really should have spent another year or two in college, he's like a bball preemie now, lol.

[DMC]

Spurs only seem to look for either brand new talent or wise old man game talent. I don't see anyone from Philly coming over. Never know though. It's really difficult to put together a team that can post the best record in the West. Shuffling it up to try to improve in the post season is very risky. I cannot imagine a player who would fit right away.

[lefty]

No way, man, I don't wanna give up Diaw. Fuck that.

[Budkin]

Agree with the sentiment on trading Diaw.... NO.

[heyheymymy]

wonder if the spurs ties get the trade done this time

[exstatic]

Spurs only seem to look for either brand new talent or wise old man game talent. I don't see anyone from Philly coming over. Never know though. It's really difficult to put together a team that can post the best record in the West. Shuffling it up to try to improve in the post season is very risky. I cannot imagine a player who would fit right away.

Might want to update your playbook. The last old man talent they signed was Dice in 2009. Even Diaw was only 29 when he signed here.

[spurraider21]

Would be dumb to trade boris

[spurraider21]

Might want to update your playbook. The last old man talent they signed was Dice in 2009. Even Diaw was only 29 when he signed here.
Jax?

[ChumpDumper]

Jax?He said talent.

[apalisoc_9]

He said talent.

Do you just call out people all the time? such life

[ElNono]

:lol "sources"
:lol 10 pages

[ChumpDumper]

Do you just call out people all the time? such lifeI'm calling you out on not knowing what calling out means.

[ChumpDumper]

I like that place tbh.

[Mikeanaro]

I think Pop likes aspects of Joseph's game but the kid doesn't pass well and hasn't learned to shoot yet or isn't aggresive / confident enough to find his spots. He's been playing not to lose rather than playing to win since he's been here and doesn't seem to have the drive to get better. At least in the small sample size so far.

To me, he's a single faceted player like Mills was last year but Mills started defending a bit better so he's earned his role. If Joseph was really going to get better, he'd be working on expanding other pieces of his game but I'm not sure he'll ever have the confidence to earn a solid spot on the rotation.

Joseph really should have spent another year or two in college, he's like a bball preemie now, lol.
I liked George Hill better than Cojo and Pop trade him then that TJ Ford accident happened, also I don´t think Cojo deserves more role than Patty but we´ll see what pop does approaching the playoffs

[Ditty]

Asik and Young to Spurs, Ayers, De Colo(Houston liked him before we drafted him) Matt Bonner to Rockets and Danny Green,Baynes and Joseph to the 76ers works through the trade machine and fills needs for all three teams. Maybe throw in next year's first also. Maybe get one of Casspi,Brewer,Garcia or Brooks from Houston .

Splitter/Asik
Duncan/Diaw
Leonard/Young
Belinilli/Manu
Parker/Mills

Stacked:lobt2::hat:hat

[Sean Cagney]

:lol "sources"
:lol 10 pages

Exactly...

[spurraider21]

Do you just call out people all the time? such life
lol he wasn't calling me out. Was making a witty (?) remark

[tmtcsc]

I wouldn't want to see the Spurs move Diaw.

[Bruno]

BTW, a name not given is Tayshaun Prince. He isn't a sexy pick and is well past his prime but he would be a decent complimentary player and is certainly available for Bonner and De Colo.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Diaw retires here.

No way we trade Boris unless it's a no-brainer. He's Spurs family now.

[SpursFan86]

BTW, a name not given is Tayshaun Prince. He isn't a sexy pick and is well past his prime but he would be a decent complimentary player and is certainly available for Bonner and De Colo.

I wouldn't mind this move. Obviously it fills the void of a true backup 3. How is Prince defensively these days? I'm sure he's not what he once was, but I wonder if he's still at least a good defender.

[Mikeanaro]

I would like some Prince if he is healthy or some Ariza

[cd021]

hyeah someone could get a hernia






heyooooooo

That, good sir, is hilarious. :lol

[cd021]

I would like some Prince if he is healthy or some Ariza


Prince can't shoot.

26 mpg
6.5 ppg
41% FG
30%3PT
8.5 P.E.R.

$7.7 million this season and next season.

[SpurPadre]

Has Boris apologized for that Nazi shit he may or may not have meant to do? Maybe that would have something to do with his name being thrown around in trade talks?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

hyeah someone could get a hernia


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

Asik and Young to Spurs, Ayers, De Colo(Houston liked him before we drafted him) Matt Bonner to Rockets and Danny Green,Baynes and Joseph to the 76ers works through the trade machine and fills needs for all three teams. Maybe throw in next year's first also. Maybe get one of Casspi,Brewer,Garcia or Brooks from Houston .

Splitter/Asik
Duncan/Diaw
Leonard/Young
Belinilli/Manu
Parker/Mills

Stacked:lobt2::hat:hat

Dat bench :hat

[Mikeanaro]

Prince can't shoot.

26 mpg
6.5 ppg
41% FG
30%3PT
8.5 P.E.R.

$7.7 million this season and next season.
You are right, but we got old dudes before like Dice, Kurt Thomas who was pure shit, I still have some faith in Purple Rain but my first choice is Ariza.

[Sean Cagney]

You are right, but we got old dudes before like Dice, Kurt Thomas who was pure shit, I still have some faith in Purple Rain but my first choice is Ariza.
Were not getting Ariza.

[cd021]

You are right, but we got old dudes before like Dice, Kurt Thomas who was pure shit, I still have some faith in Purple Rain but my first choice is Ariza.

Ariza is basically the same price.

But much better production

33 mpg
14ppg
5.7 rpg
44%FG
40%3PT
16.3 P.E.R

$7.2 Million and this is his final season of his deal.

Washington is a tricky partner to trade with. They have 15 players on guaranteed deals and are $1.4 under a hard cap (teams who use the MLE can't spend more than $72 million). In other words, We can't package three players (ideally Bonner, De Colo and Joseph) for Ariza because he is making $7.2 while our players would add up to $6.4.

Washington would have to send 2 other players back. Their cheapest players are Harrington (884,000) Temple (884,000) and Glen Rice JR.(449,000) Adding Harrington and Rice would up it to about $8.4 million. Meaning we would have to throw Green in to make the salaries work over Joseph.

[Mikeanaro]

Were not getting Ariza.
But if they are aggressively pursuing upgrades (as the rumor says) I wanna think it´s about something nice, not scrub per scrub for example... we get Brandon Bass.

[Mikeanaro]

Ariza is basically the same price.

But much better production

33 mpg
14ppg
5.7 rpg
44%FG
40%3PT
16.3 P.E.R

$7.2 Million and this is his final season of his deal.

Washington is a tricky partner to trade with. They have 15 players on guaranteed deals and are $1.4 under a hard cap (teams who use the MLE can't spend more than $72 million). In other words, We can't package three players (ideally Bonner, De Colo and Joseph) for Ariza because he is making $7.2 while our players would add up to $6.4.

Washington would have to send 2 other players back. Their cheapest players are Harrington (884,000) Temple (884,000) and Glen Rice JR.(449,000) Adding Harrington and Rice would up it to about $8.4 million. Meaning we would have to throw Green in to make the salaries work over Joseph.
Throwing Green to the deal is a big gamble, if he at least gets hot in the first rounds he would be useful, Im not expecting him to be the same player than last season in the finals if we go that far again.

[Sean Cagney]

But if they are aggressively pursuing upgrades (as the rumor says) I wanna think it´s about something nice, not scrub per scrub for example... we get Brandon Bass.
What we want to think about what it really is as you know man is heresay on who they will get and who we talk about or want in here. I have not heard one concrete name yet to make me think this is not more than just a rumor. I never get excited on talks of Spurs trades, they usually turn out to be nothing.

[DMC]

Might want to update your playbook. The last old man talent they signed was Dice in 2009. Even Diaw was only 29 when he signed here.

Diaw has an old man game. You might want to update your basketball lingo encyclopedia.

[cjw]

Prince can't shoot.

26 mpg
6.5 ppg
41% FG
30%3PT
8.5 P.E.R.

$7.7 million this season and next season.

Agree. I'd WANT a pick for him and Bonner at this point given the obligation beyond this year. Almost a reverse of RJ-SJax, though the Grizz pick will be way better than the spot where the W's got Festus Ezili.

[Chinook]

Ariza is basically the same price.

But much better production

33 mpg
14ppg
5.7 rpg
44%FG
40%3PT
16.3 P.E.R

$7.2 Million and this is his final season of his deal.

Washington is a tricky partner to trade with. They have 15 players on guaranteed deals and are $1.4 under a hard cap (teams who use the MLE can't spend more than $72 million). In other words, We can't package three players (ideally Bonner, De Colo and Joseph) for Ariza because he is making $7.2 while our players would add up to $6.4.

Washington would have to send 2 other players back. Their cheapest players are Harrington (884,000) Temple (884,000) and Glen Rice JR.(449,000) Adding Harrington and Rice would up it to about $8.4 million. Meaning we would have to throw Green in to make the salaries work over Joseph.

No. Bonner and De Colo for Ariza and Temple would work. The Spurs can take back $8.2 Million in salary from shipping those two out. It's not hard to trade with Washington at all.

[cd021]

Agree. I'd WANT a pick for him and Bonner at this point given the obligation beyond this year. Almost a reverse of RJ-SJax, though the Grizz pick will be way better than the spot where the W's got Festus Ezili.

I hadn't thought about that. Acquiring him and receiving a pick because he has an extra season on his deal. That does make some sense. Bonner + De Colo+Joseph for Prince and 1st round pick (conditional) top 12 protected (maybe??) they'd save $7.7 million next season and could get under the cap by renouncing Davis and Koufous.

Even trading Randolph who is entering the final year of his deal ($16+ million) all told they could have $58 million dollars in committed salary next season as opposed to $73 million. (Both of those numbers include Randolph's contract staying in Memphis)

[cd021]

No. Bonner and De Colo for Ariza and Temple would work. The Spurs can take back $8.2 Million in salary from shipping those two out. It's not hard to trade with Washington at all.

I must have over thought it. I stand corrected.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

So now that Yahoo is reporting this, does that make it legit? I can't imagine a trade that drops jaws is in the works.

[Chinook]

And Memphis already owes one pick to Cleveland and I believe another to Minnesota. They have little in the way of sweeteners. If the Spurs want to take on salary for a pick, Gerald Wallace is probably the way to go. I'd hope for someone younger like Ilyasova, though.

[apalisoc_9]

Trade for Ersan...

[Prime Time]

because they would be interested?
Potentially, yes. Livio was one of the most intriguing prospects during last year's summit (Outplaying Wiggins and Schroeder mind you) and the last time teams acquired international players from the Spurs.. they turned out to become Goran Dragic, Luis Scola, Leandro Barbosa, etc.

Not saying Livio will be anything near those players is a guarantee nor is he good enough to spark a trade on his own. But I can't imagine Nando De Colo generating more offers than him.

[Chinook]

Trade for Ersan...

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kxkke55

Wolters, Ilyasova and Middleton for Bonner, Baynes and De Colo.

But the Bucks probably want Neal as part of the package. If that's the case, Beli would have to be included for it to make sense. It can be done without him financially by including Ayres for Baynes and swapping Joseph for Neal -- http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kcl9g24 -- but that leaves the Spurs with only Wolters and Parker as legitimate ones and pretty much forces Neal to back up Parker again. So it'd have to be Beli, Bonner and Baynes for Ilyasova, Middleton and Neal-- http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ke9eleo .

The Morey in me would do that deal, since I think it would improve the club now and in the future. But I couldn't damn Beli to play in Milwaukee after he gave up money to come to the Spurs. Also, it's possible Ilyasova flops, leaving the Spurs with a bloated contract, a deep-bench combo-forward and a downgrade at the backup two.

[Robz4000]

I wouldn't do it tbh. Really don't think Ilyasova is as good of a fit as everyone seems to think, nor is he even that good to begin with.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't do it tbh. Really don't think Ilyasova is as good of a fit as everyone seems to think, nor is he even that good to begin with.

He was an elite floor-spacer who put up 17 and 10 per 36 on 45-percent shooting from range the last twp seasons prior to this one. He'd also be the youngest big on the team after Thomas. If he can recapture his old production in the Spurs system, his contract's a bargain. However, right now, it's an albatross. That should help the Spurs avoid having to give up assets for him. They may even get some for eating all that money.

[Robz4000]

He was an elite floor-spacer who put up 17 and 10 per 36 on 45-percent shooting from range the last twp seasons prior to this one. He'd also be the youngest big on the team after Thomas. If he can recapture his old production in the Spurs system, his contract's a bargain. However, right now, it's an albatross. That should help the Spurs avoid having to give up assets for him. They may even get some for eating all that money.

I think those numbers were more of a anomaly tbh. Since he started getting regular playing time they've gone to shit. He also wasn't very good in the playoffs last year iirc. There is the chance he could flourish in the Spurs' system, but it'd be too much of a risk considering how close the window is to being closed; not only are the Sours crippled with his contract in the short term, but they'd be fucked long term as well.

tl;dr he's RJ 2.0 imo

[Johnny RIngo]

Potentially, yes. Livio was one of the most intriguing prospects during last year's summit (Outplaying Wiggins and Schroeder mind you) and the last time teams acquired international players from the Spurs.. they turned out to become Goran Dragic, Luis Scola, Leandro Barbosa, etc.

Not saying Livio will be anything near those players is a guarantee nor is he good enough to spark a trade on his own. But I can't imagine Nando De Colo generating more offers than him.

Don't know if Livio has much value at this point. He was renowned for his athleticism and he ended up tearing his ACL not longer after SA drafted him. Never a good sign. Thankfully it was a weak draft

[FireMicoHalili]

Greg Monroe and Gigi Datome for Kawhi + Ayres + Nando + pick. Monroe is slumping and Pistons fans want J Smoove at the four. Then we flip Tiago or Bonner + CoJo/Baynes for a small forward. JR Smith looks good on paper.

Or or not even on paper but whatever it'll look good in 2k anyway

[Robz4000]

^:lmao

[will_spurs]

Anybody the Spurs trade for right now has to be a good defender, first and foremost.

[exstatic]

Jax?

It was a trade, and it wasn't for Jack, specifically, it was for his shorter contract. That trade, boiled down, was our first round pick, for ELEVEN MILLION DOLLARS. I still can't believe GS did it.

[benefactor]

smh this place

[Raven]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kxkke55

Wolters, Ilyasova and Middleton for Bonner, Baynes and De Colo.

But the Bucks probably want Neal as part of the package. If that's the case, Beli would have to be included for it to make sense. It can be done without him financially by including Ayres for Baynes and swapping Joseph for Neal -- http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kcl9g24 -- but that leaves the Spurs with only Wolters and Parker as legitimate ones and pretty much forces Neal to back up Parker again. So it'd have to be Beli, Bonner and Baynes for Ilyasova, Middleton and Neal-- http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ke9eleo .

The Morey in me would do that deal, since I think it would improve the club now and in the future. But I couldn't damn Beli to play in Milwaukee after he gave up money to come to the Spurs. Also, it's possible Ilyasova flops, leaving the Spurs with a bloated contract, a deep-bench combo-forward and a downgrade at the backup two.

that would be a pretty fantastic deal, not going to happen unfortunately.

[sananspursfan21]

No way, man, I don't wanna give up Diaw. Fuck that.

Kinda what I think. Thad would be incredible but I'd hate to lose Boris. Especaiily with his newfound shoot more mentality

[AFBlue]

Haven't read all the pages, but the Spurs are usually buyers on the trade market. They may be "unusually aggressive" because they have excess depth and roster imbalance. Joseph and De Colo are regular rotation guys on a number of teams. Ditto for Baynes.

The concept of trading Diaw, as has been suggested, seems farfetched though.

[DPG21920]

I don't want Ersan. He doesn't strike me as someone who cares about improving or winning all that much. He's the kind of guy that views basketball strictly as a job and I don't think he would be happy with what could be a limited role on a team like the Spurs.

He's got a very solid skill set, but I am not sure I would want him on the Spurs now that he got his money.

[Texas_Ranger]

Spurs making a trade? Yea right.


And roflmao Bonner being in the package.

[DPG21920]

I would still absolutely love Amir Johnson as the number one target, but TOR has a lot more questions than I think they anticipated. Moving Amir is far from a no-brainer if they think they can be a playoff team moving forward with smart drafting and FA moves.

[playbonner15]

Monitoring this thread...

[marbles1991]

What do you guys think about Mirza Teletovic? He can slide into the backup 3/stretch 4 role. The dude is an absolutely knock down shooter though the defense may be an issue.

[Skull-1]

I don't think anyone here gets to decide who is expendable, who is not. If the team can get better through trade minus the Big 3 then I think the front office is going to do it. Tim is almost 40. Lets be real here, this is officially the last hurrah. Officially. There is no more chance for another ring after this season with this Big 3. We all know this. It is literally now or never again... As fans it's time to wake up and realize this. Really enjoy what we have. Timmy will probably hang it up after next year...


It is time for fans to wake up to the fact that LAST SEASON was the LAST hurrah. Unless we can magically upgrade to a true impact player that's good enough to more than compensate for Tim and Manu declining. But then we would probably need another perfect storm to get back to the championship round.

It is not happening

[UZER]

Another year another runaway thread based on a "source" from Dubai

[Hoops Czar]

What do you guys think about Mirza Teletovic? He can slide into the backup 3/stretch 4 role. The dude is an absolutely knock down shooter though the defense may be an issue.

I didn't realize New Jersey was tanking.

[Raven]

What do you guys think about Mirza Teletovic? He can slide into the backup 3/stretch 4 role. The dude is an absolutely knock down shooter though the defense may be an issue.

why do you want to trade for matt bonner?

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

It is time for fans to wake up to the fact that LAST SEASON was the LAST hurrah. Unless we can magically upgrade to a true impact player that's good enough to more than compensate for Tim and Manu declining. But then we would probably need another perfect storm to get back to the championship round.

It is not happening

Its been the last hurrah and too old to compete for 5 years. Its hard to do any year but that is why they play the games. If they win cool, if not life goes on, at least there is a chance, 95% of the league cannot say that...

[cjw]

He was an elite floor-spacer who put up 17 and 10 per 36 on 45-percent shooting from range the last twp seasons prior to this one. He'd also be the youngest big on the team after Thomas. If he can recapture his old production in the Spurs system, his contract's a bargain. However, right now, it's an albatross. That should help the Spurs avoid having to give up assets for him. They may even get some for eating all that money.

Last time we traded nothing (filler contracts) for a guy underproducing in Milwaukee... but either way, this time is a lot different. $7.9 million for the next two seasons after this is pretty good if he can put up play at the levels he put up the prior two years. Contract is only guaranteed for $400k three years out, which basically turns him into a nicely sized expiring contract the year after Tim/Manu likely hang it up if he's not in plans anymore.

[TheGoldStandard]

No soft euro players

[DPG21920]

Thad Young would be a very good addition if it's for expiring deals/non key rotational players, but I would be shocked if that is all he costs. PHI is not CHI and aren't anywhere close to the Luxury Tax. They will want a very good asset for him, unlike Deng where he went for significant financial savings/pick(s).

Spurs need some more athletes - it stands out at times and one that is a small ball PF is a good idea IMO. He's not a good 3PT shooter, but does attack and rebound. He is a productive player that is young and would add a dimension the team does not really have. But I would not give up any top 8-9 rotational player for him.

[MR-Clutch]

I would still absolutely love Amir Johnson as the number one target, but TOR has a lot more questions than I think they anticipated. Moving Amir is far from a no-brainer if they think they can be a playoff team moving forward with smart drafting and FA moves.

I like Amir too, not sure on where his bball iq stands though. If I'm Toronto, this draft lottery, stocked with talent, is way more appealing to me than a first round outing. I still like Thad young as a number 1 target, especially with the spurs connections to that team. If Taj Gibson or Jeff Green were available due to tanking, I would add them to the list as well. MKG would also be an interesting target, but not sure he could help us this year.

[look_at_g_shred]

11 pages :lmao

[DPG21920]

While I like Taj well enough, he's not worth his contract IMO and is a bit overrated. Not a Jeff Green fan either. Not worth his contract.

I don't love Thad's contract, but he's a better player than either Jeff Green/Taj for the same/less money guaranteed.

[TheGoldStandard]

How quickly can you amnesty someone once you trade for them. In theory if there is not a waiting period you could take on a higher salary or one with multiple years and use them for a season or two and then amnesty it away.

[DPG21920]

How quickly can you amnesty someone once you trade for them. In theory if there is not a waiting period you could take on a higher salary or one with multiple years and use them for a season or two and then amnesty it away.

You can't amnesty someone you trade for.

[KawhiLeonard]

Why don't we package splitter+Bonner +de Colo+2014 1st rounder for Marc gasol? Seems like a good trade for both sides

[TheGoldStandard]

You can't amnesty someone you trade for.

Just read that, bummer you can't assume amnesty rights from the trade.

I don't mind a few lean years after Tim and Manu walk away if it means championship now or at least a better chance at one. Thad young looks like he could flourish in our system, has a lot athleticism and hasn't quit on a shitty Philly team over the years. Very young and hungry too

[will_spurs]

Why don't we package splitter+Bonner +de Colo+2014 1st rounder for Marc gasol? Seems like a good trade for both sides

1st rule of Trade Club is that you don't trade with a direct competitor.

[weeks]

11 pages :lmao
it's the spurs

we're starved for something interesting to discuss

[will_spurs]

But then we would probably need another perfect storm to get back to the championship round.

The perfect storm is currently brewing, though...

[gambit1990]

some combination of green, de colo, joseph, ayers, baynes for aminu.

definitely don't wanna see diaw go.

[Bruno]

What I find laughable is people laughing at the number of pages of this thread thinking it makes them smarter.

Ken Berger is one of the best journalist covering the NBA and what he is saying is a huge deal.

[will_spurs]

What I find laughable is people laughing at the number of pages of this thread thinking it makes them smarter.

Ken Berger is one of the best journalist covering the NBA and what he is saying is a huge deal.

And the trade scenarios in this thread are much better than the standard of late around here.

[DMC]

We don't need Cojo, Baynes or Bonner. We play them to spell others, but outside of the rare glimpses of why they are in the NBA in the 1st place, we don't really need them. We could use a real production guy though and trim some of the fat from the bench. We have a great bench, but it's not because of the three mentioned.

[rick1991]

Hopefully Afflalo is the target

[look_at_g_shred]

What I find laughable is people laughing at the number of pages of this thread thinking it makes them smarter.

Ken Berger is one of the best journalist covering the NBA and what he is saying is a huge deal.
Fwiw, I don't think I'm better than anyone on this forum. I find it funny how the spurs are mentioned in the media and everyone thinks we are going to make a move. It's the spurs we are talking about here. How often do the spurs shake things up? Almost never. Sure, I want a trade as bad as most do, yet what are the chances the spurs are aggressively trying?

[Kidd K]

I'll believe it when I see it. Spurs have rarely ever been the team to go make a splash by making a big trade. Especially mid-season.

I'm not really sure what we could do anyway without giving something up that's already working. If we were to do something, it shoudl've been via free agency in the offseason, not now where you're really handcuffed in what you can do.

[Baam]

I'll believe it when I see it. Spurs have rarely ever been the team to go make a splash by making a big trade. Especially mid-season.

I'm not really sure what we could do anyway without giving something up that's already working. If we were to do something, it shoudl've been via free agency in the offseason, not now where you're really handcuffed in what you can do.

What's working? Tiago Tim Kawhi doesn't work, Mills Beli Manu doesn't work at least against OKC, Beli starting doesn't work...

[HarlemHeat37]

Baam should be banned from posting in trade threads, tbh..

[ElNono]

I don't mind the basketball chatter, tbh... it's refreshing...

I've heard plenty of Ken Berger since he's local to me, but I can't think of one instance of him with breaking news... Woj on the other hand...

[ElNono]

Baam should be banned from posting in trade threads, tbh..

:lol

[Baam]

Baam should be banned from posting in trade threads, tbh..

Still butthurt about your thread backfiring tbh :lol:.

[wildcardX]

Spurs: (calling)...."Hello, who can you give us for Nando DeColo?"
28 other NBA teams:........"click"..........
Spurs: "Hello"......Hello???
Knicks: "We will give you Chris Smith"
Spurs:......"click"........
Knicks:........."Hello"???

[Chinook]

Baam should be banned from posting in trade threads, tbh..

I think he's above average when he's not trying to push the anti-Green or anti-Splitter agenda. At least he understands the CBA enough to propose possible trades. Even that is rare in these threads.

[Bruno]

Sure, I want a trade as bad as most do, yet what are the chances the spurs are aggressively trying?

Berger is a solid journalist. He certainly won't make up rumors or report them if they are coming from a shaky source. There is a reliable source telling him Spurs are aggressive on the trade market. Now, you can imagine a scenario with smoke screens and baits and that in fact Spurs aren't trying hard to make a move but I wouldn't say it isn't the most likely case. Doing a trade is also complicate so it might not happen even if Spurs are pushing for it.

Regardless, it is a big piece of news coming from a great source. It's definitely worth talking lengthy about it especially since there are a lot of questions behind it: Who/What Spurs are ready to trade? What kind of players they are looking for? Are Spurs ready to take a long term contract? How Spurs value their 2014 first round draft pick? ....

[ElNono]

Berger is a solid journalist. He certainly won't make up rumors or report them if they are coming from a shaky source. There is a reliable source telling him Spurs are aggressive on the trade market. Now, you can imagine a scenario with smoke screens and baits and that in fact Spurs aren't trying hard to make a move but I wouldn't say it isn't the most likely case. Doing a trade is also complicate so it might not happen even if Spurs are pushing for it.

Regardless, it is a big piece of news coming from a great source. It's definitely worth talking lengthy about it especially since there are a lot of questions behind it: Who/What Spurs are ready to trade? What kind of players they are looking for? Are Spurs ready to take a long term contract? How Spurs value their 2014 first round draft pick? ....

Not disagreeing it's worth discussing... but isn't that what the Think Tank is for, tbh?

[Bruno]

Not disagreeing it's worth discussing... but isn't that what the Think Tank is for, tbh?

There is certainly an overlap between these kind of threads and the Think Tank but I would say it has more his place here.

Think Tank is mostly great to talk about draft prospect and free agents since there can have one thread per player. It is also a kinda seasonal forum that start in March when draft talks start to really build up and end in August when most free agents are signed. Aside of these months, it's relatively dead especially this year with very little Euro players whose draft rights are owned by Spurs to follow.

[RD2191]

Nono stirring shit up, but fa real though, who the hell cares? Its a solid thread. What else do we have to talk about? Mute and his ridiculous threads? Benefactors suspicious selfie?

[bluebellmaniac]

I've had the impression that the FO has valued professionalism and secrecy to the extent that if a trade rumor news story broke, they'd break off the deal. If there were advanced talks, this type of story would (based on my impression) would cool the FO on pulling the trigger.

[ElNono]

There is certainly an overlap between these kind of threads and the Think Tank but I would say it has more his place here.

Think Tank is mostly great to talk about draft prospect and free agents since there can have one thread per player. It is also a kinda seasonal forum that start in March when draft talks start to really build up and end in August when most free agents are signed. Aside of these months, it's relatively dead especially this year with very little Euro players whose draft rights are owned by Spurs to follow.

I agree most of the convo goes on here. Heck, the General Free Agent thread in the Think Thank started back in 2012 and it's only 13 pages long... This thread is about to eclipse it in one day... which, BTW, it's what I think makes this thread pretty hilarious. The Spurs rarely makes move, and such a rumor always sparks the imagination.

BTW, I never implied Ken is making things up. Him and Isola are basically the two most solid NBA reporters in this region (which include the league's offices). That said, Peter Vecsey was an "NBA insider" for a long time too around here, so you gotta take it with a grain of salt, IMO.

[ElNono]

Nono stirring shit up, but fa real though, who the hell cares? Its a solid thread. What else do we have to talk about? Mute and his ridiculous threads? Benefactors suspicious selfie?

:lol I'm on the record it's refreshing to have a solid basketball discussion thread as opposed the usual trolling... it wasn't me calling out other posters, tbh...

carry on

[RD2191]

:lol I'm on the record it's refreshing to have a solid basketball discussion thread as opposed the usual trolling... it wasn't me calling out other posters, tbh...

carry on
I almost derailed the thread with some trolling but all is well. Lol

[TD 21]

Joseph is physically built for the post-season, and his strengths are better suited for games that matter. Especially since this season, the bench has two play-makers (or will when Beli moves back). I think Pop really likes Cory, which is the primary reason why I think he'll replace Mills.

I wouldn't rule out Joseph replacing Mills, but it would be foolish. The most important thing for a PG playing next to a ball handling/play making SG, is to be a quality spot up three-point shooter. Throw in the fact that Belinelli (he'll eventually return to the bench) and Diaw serve as secondary play makers and that's only exacerbated.

Also, Mills is a more confident player and better overall scorer. The former is especially necessary in the playoffs for obvious reasons and the latter will be if they make it to the Thunder/Heat, as both disrupt their offense rhythm, making it all the more important to be able to create your shot.


http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kxkke55

Wolters, Ilyasova and Middleton for Bonner, Baynes and De Colo.

But the Bucks probably want Neal as part of the package. If that's the case, Beli would have to be included for it to make sense. It can be done without him financially by including Ayres for Baynes and swapping Joseph for Neal -- http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kcl9g24 -- but that leaves the Spurs with only Wolters and Parker as legitimate ones and pretty much forces Neal to back up Parker again. So it'd have to be Beli, Bonner and Baynes for Ilyasova, Middleton and Neal-- http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ke9eleo .

The Morey in me would do that deal, since I think it would improve the club now and in the future. But I couldn't damn Beli to play in Milwaukee after he gave up money to come to the Spurs. Also, it's possible Ilyasova flops, leaving the Spurs with a bloated contract, a deep-bench combo-forward and a downgrade at the backup two.

Not a chance the Bucks would even consider that. Despite Ilyasova's underwhelming season, young, elite shooting stretch fours, that are also above average rebounders (when the spirit moves him) and on affordable contracts, don't lose value to the point where they wouldn't be able to fetch something of value in return. In addition, Middleton has shown that he has the makings of a quality backup.

Unless he's part of a package that lands them a legitimate star, there's no reason to think Middleton is going anywhere and he doesn't really have the size/strength the Spurs need in an SF anyway. Since Henson is the PF of the future and looks ready for starters minutes, Ilyasova could probably be had (especially if they were getting a stretch four in return), but it would no doubt cost the Spurs a 1st.

[Baam]

^ I often agree with you but Mills against the Thunder has been a disaster.

[td4mvp2k]

Spurs: (calling)...."Hello, who can you give us for Nando DeColo?"28 other NBA teams:........"click"..........Spurs: "Hello"......Hello???Knicks: "We will give you Chris Smith"Spurs:......"click"........Knicks:........."Hello"???:lol

[TD 21]

^ I often agree with you but Mills against the Thunder has been a disaster.

He has, but the sample size is small and I'd still rather bank on him (for the reasons I stated) than Joseph . . . but it's a fluid situation. If they get into a series with the Thunder and he's being absolutely destroyed by Jackson for the first few games, they can always go to Joseph at that point.

[xmas1997]

^:lmao


There is certainly an overlap between these kind of threads and the Think Tank but I would say it has more his place here.

Think Tank is mostly great to talk about draft prospect and free agents since there can have one thread per player. It is also a kinda seasonal forum that start in March when draft talks start to really build up and end in August when most free agents are signed. Aside of these months, it's relatively dead especially this year with very little Euro players whose draft rights are owned by Spurs to follow.

I just hope their 2014 draft choice isn't going to be used. This is a year I would want them to stock up on some draft picks.

[r0drig0lac]

I've had the impression that the FO has valued professionalism and secrecy to the extent that if a trade rumor news story broke, they'd break off the deal. If there were advanced talks, this type of story would (based on my impression) would cool the FO on pulling the trigger.
this

[weebo]

Teams are always looking to improve their team. However, that doesn't mean that a trade will ever happen. The Spurs FO is notorious for being involved in such rumors but rarely does anything ever come from it. Expect much of the same.

[tholdren]

Ive been a Spurs fan since the early 80s. Whoever thinks the Spurs would consider JR Smith, unless it was some crazy Smith(+1 billion dollars) for bonner, is reaching to say the least.. The spurs would not trade for JR Smith. IF the spurs did trade for JR smith I would instantly become a Dallas or Heat fan. Jr smith is a loser, with almost no basketball talent. He's a 13 ppg player that can't pass or defend. He scores the same in the playoffs but with worse FG percentage. WTF would we do with him? He's not better than our 3rd backup PG.

[tholdren]

I just hope their 2014 draft choice isn't going to be used. This is a year I would want them to stock up on some draft picks.
This is the exact class that you want to trade away. This class is overhyped. The 3 best players (supposedly) arent even the best on their team. Hell, the consensus preseason #1, Andrew Wiggins, averages more TOs than assists AGAINST COLLEGE KIDS. His stats are TERRIBLE.

[SpurPadre]

Spurs: (calling)...."Hello, who can you give us for Nando DeColo?"
28 other NBA teams:........"click"..........
Spurs: "Hello"......Hello???
Knicks: "We will give you Chris Smith"
Spurs:......"click"........
Knicks:........."Hello"???

More like,

Spurs: (calling)..."Hello, who can you give us for Nando DeColo?"
29 other NBA teams: "What?! Fuck you, stick it up your own CULO!"
Spurs: No...that's the guy's name...really. We swear!
29 other NBA teams: "click"
Spurs: Hello?

[Chinook]

TD21 The bench's biggest weakness is a lack of perimeter defense. Pop may solve that by playing Green with Manu and Beli as a defensive point guard, but seeing as he'll probably be guarding the starting point, it's not likely. A third defender is key against most good teams.

Ilyasova has been worse than Ayres this season. Let that sink in. He'd be an amnesty candidate if that were possible. I'm not saying he sucks, since I am obviously suggesting the Spurs trading for him. But the dude has negative win-shares. He's not working out so far. Also note this is Milwaukee's front office we're talking about. They literally give away players every few months.

[Kidd K]

What's working? Tiago Tim Kawhi doesn't work, Mills Beli Manu doesn't work at least against OKC, Beli starting doesn't work...

Come on man, you're exaggerating bigtime. You can't seriously be suggesting giving up any of those players for something else, can you? Or maybe I'm being trolled here.

Our top 9 rotational guys are all pretty solid imo. Tim, Tony, Tiago, Diaw, Manu, Mills, Kawhi, Marco, and even Danny Green are all either good for us now or have a track record of being good. It'd be silly to dump any of them for a player who's unproven in our system and playing with the rest of our guys midseason.

Like I said, any big shakeups and additions should've happened in the offseason. At this point there's just nothing out there that makes sense since we'd have to give up something that's already pretty good for a question mark.

[Aremid]

Teams are always looking to improve their team. However, that doesn't mean that a trade will ever happen. The Spurs FO is notorious for being involved in such rumors but rarely does anything ever come from it. Expect much of the same.

Expect much of the same? You mean zero titles In The past 7 years. That's something to look forward to

[TheyCallMePro]

This is the exact class that you want to trade away. This class is overhyped. The 3 best players (supposedly) arent even the best on their team. Hell, the consensus preseason #1, Andrew Wiggins, averages more TOs than assists AGAINST COLLEGE KIDS. His stats are TERRIBLE.

100% agree. The only one that looks ready for the NBA is Jabari Parker. Wiggins and Embiid are raw as hell. They'll need years to develop.

This is why lottery teams are back in the lottery year after year. They draft these 1 and done kids who have no idea how to play basketball.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Well this news sure went nowhere.

[TD 21]

TD21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908) The bench's biggest weakness is a lack of perimeter defense. Pop may solve that by playing Green with Manu and Beli as a defensive point guard, but seeing as he'll probably be guarding the starting point, it's not likely. A third defender is key against most good teams.

Ilyasova has been worse than Ayres this season. Let that sink in. He'd be an amnesty candidate if that were possible. I'm not saying he sucks, since I am obviously suggesting the Spurs trading for him. But the dude has negative win-shares. He's not working out so far. Also note this is Milwaukee's front office we're talking about. They literally give away players every few months.

There's only so much a PG can do defensively though, so it comes down to risk/reward. In other words, as long as Mills isn't getting completely and utterly destroyed by Jackson, they should stick with him because of how much better a fit he is offensively, in addition to his being fearless.

I'm aware of how bad he's been, but like I said, the attributes he possesses are so rare and valued, that I don't think it would matter all that much as far as his trade value is concerned.

[exstatic]

Well this news sure went nowhere.

Yes, because tomorrow is the trade deadline....

[ThaBigFundamental21]

It is time for fans to wake up to the fact that LAST SEASON was the LAST hurrah. Unless we can magically upgrade to a true impact player that's good enough to more than compensate for Tim and Manu declining. But then we would probably need another perfect storm to get back to the championship round.

It is not happening

You are saying QUITE a lot considering the Spurs are first in the West and haven't once looked as good as they can be....

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Yes, because tomorrow is the trade deadline....

Is it really?

[apalisoc_9]

Not that it matters but since the Bucks is one team that spurs could potentialy trade with

Caron Butler
John Henson
Nick Wolters
Gary Neal

All DNP- Coach's decision..

All players we're getting significat minutes before..Would have been interesting if Elyasova was DNP too.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Yes, because tomorrow is the trade deadline....

Oh really?

[apalisoc_9]

Is it really?

:lmao

[dallasmaverickslose]

Not that it matters but since the Bucks is one team that spurs could potentialy trade with

Caron Butler
John Henson
Nick Wolters
Gary Neal

All DNP- Coach's decision..

All players we're getting significat minutes before..Would have been interesting if Elyasova was DNP too.

Tbh, none of these guys appeal to me.

[Dex]

Spurs aggressively looking to trade = Pop blackmailing Bud with incriminating drunken photographs

[palangi]

Not that it matters but since the Bucks is one team that spurs could potentialy trade with

Caron Butler
John Henson
Nick Wolters
Gary Neal

All DNP- Coach's decision..

All players we're getting significat minutes before..Would have been interesting if Elyasova was DNP too.
I would actually like to get john henson. he is a long athletic 4. can block shots and shoot the mid range shot very well.

[Bruno]

Henson is injured and there is now way Bucks trade him.

Butler might be injured too (not sure).

[Sean Cagney]

Well this news sure went nowhere.

It never was, don't know why Spurs fans even entertain this crap anymore and it goes 13 pages. Nothing ever was going to happen and we should all know this by now. Oh well on to the second half of the season coming soon.

[ChumpDumper]

What's the incentive for anyone to trade on the second Saturday of January?

[Skull-1]

You are saying QUITE a lot considering the Spurs are first in the West and haven't once looked as good as they can be....


"...And haven't once looked...good..."

We were No. 1 Seed and got bounced first round in the recent past. Regular season championship only good for HCA. Doesn't equate to much else come PO time.

[Mikeanaro]

What's the incentive for anyone to trade on the second Saturday of January?
Have a toast after the deal is closed and go get some bitches to celebrate.

[cd021]

Have a toast after the deal is closed and go get some bitches to celebrate.

I like your style:lol

[Sean Cagney]

Expect much of the same? You mean zero titles In The past 7 years. That's something to look forward to

Yeah well join most of the teams in the NBA then, hell some have not made the playoffs or got near the finals in the last 7 years. It is not easy you know?

[DMC]

I think it would be a Danny Green and Nando move for someone like Young. Not sure the logistics on that, but Danny is the trade piece imo. He's not really much of a contributor it seems.

[Baam]

The true question is to know is they're looking to make a huge trade or a smaller move...

Like some people said teams are always looking to improve BUT at the same time the end of the road is in sight...

Imo Splitter is on the block, the way he always starts in a broken unit imo is Pop showcasing him. on the other hand he never planed to part with Green so he had no hesitation about putting him on the bench, there's no value to perserve here... It's the RJeff thing all over again.

As far as Splitter trades I'm thinking about something like this :

Spurs get : Boozer + Snell
Bulls get : Bonner + another expiring from third team (for instance Marion or Humphries)
Third team get : Splitter

The Spurs have complete flexibility in 2015 with Boozer huge expiring... And as far as the present is concerned, they get another low post scoring option, and a shooting guard with great defensive potential...

[will_spurs]

It never was, don't know why Spurs fans even entertain this crap anymore and it goes 13 pages. Nothing ever was going to happen and we should all know this by now. Oh well on to the second half of the season coming soon.

This thread going 13 pages shows you a) how dull the NBA is right now and b) how great the other threads currently active are.

[benefactor]

The true question is to know is they're looking to make a huge trade or a smaller move...

Like some people said teams are always looking to improve BUT at the same time the end of the road is in sight...

Imo Splitter is on the block, the way he always starts in a broken unit imo is Pop showcasing him. on the other hand he never planed to part with Green so he had no hesitation about putting him on the bench, there's no value to perserve here... It's the RJeff thing all over again.

As far as Splitter trades I'm thinking about something like this :

Spurs get : Boozer + Snell
Bulls get : Bonner + another expiring from third team (for instance Marion or Humphries)
Third team get : Splitter

The Spurs have complete flexibility in 2015 with Boozer huge expiring... And as far as the present is concerned, they get another low post scoring option, and a shooting guard with great defensive potential...

Baam should be banned from posting in trade threads, tbh..

[Baam]

^ from the guy who thinks Green is more likely to be moved than Splitter :lol:

How about this : I'll ban myself from upstair and not just the trade thread if Green gets traded before Splitter. And if they do ship Splitter somewhere I'll just enjoy seeing you backpedaling all butthurt...

[Baam]

Green : shut down Curry, hit a game tieing shot to send game 1 to overtime, broke the Finals 3pt record...

Splitter : got hacked by the Thunder in an elimlnation series, was the worst player in the Finals, 3 years of RJeff like impact in the post season basically...

[TheCerebral1]

BTW, a name not given is Tayshaun Prince. He isn't a sexy pick and is well past his prime but he would be a decent complimentary player and is certainly available for Bonner and De Colo.

He'd be a monumental upgrade over both players. If he's in the last year of his deal I say he's even more appealing. I'm not a big Prince fan, but he does guard well and he would fit the system.

[UZER]

Green : shut down Curry, hit a game tieing shot to send game 1 to overtime, broke the Finals 3pt record...

Splitter : got hacked by the Thunder in an elimlnation series, was the worst player in the Finals, 3 years of RJeff like impact in the post season basically...

I don't necessarily disagree, but Splitters PnR defense was huge against the Grizz and GS

[tholdren]

I don't necessarily disagree, but Splitters PnR defense was huge against the Grizz and GS

Just no.

[tholdren]

Playoffs last year

Playoffs Advanced Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html#playoffs_advanced::5) · ?



Rk
Player
Age
G
MP
PER ▾
TS%
eFG%
FTr
3PAr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48


1
DeJuan Blair (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/blairde01.html)
23
12 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/blairde01/gamelog/2013/)
76
31.2
.619
.618
.265
.000
9.4
26.3
18.1
18.7
3.5
1.0
2.6
24.2
131
94
0.4
0.2
0.6
.348


2
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
30
21 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01/gamelog/2013/)
765
21.5
.521
.473
.307
.085
2.2
7.8
5.1
34.6
1.7
0.3
11.3
28.9
108
105
1.7
0.8
2.4
.152


3
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
36
21 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01/gamelog/2013/)
735
21.3
.523
.470
.305
.003
8.7
24.2
16.7
9.6
1.3
3.5
10.3
26.1
106
98
1.1
1.4
2.5
.161


4
Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html)
21
21 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01/gamelog/2013/)
775
18.9
.611
.600
.232
.280
7.7
20.1
14.1
4.6
2.6
1.1
9.0
15.6
120
98
1.7
1.4
3.1
.194


5
Nando De Colo (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/decolna01.html)
25
5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/decolna01/gamelog/2013/)
14
17.0
.410
.250
.500
.750
16.9
15.9
16.4
20.5
0.0
0.0
0.0
16.5
122
106
0.0
0.0
0.1
.184


6
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)
35
21 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01/gamelog/2013/)
560
16.5
.530
.474
.415
.497
1.9
13.7
8.0
29.7
2.3
0.8
19.4
23.9
102
101
0.5
0.8
1.3
.110


7
Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02.html)
25
21 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenda02/gamelog/2013/)
669
15.2
.605
.594
.081
.613
3.2
11.5
7.5
7.4
1.8
2.6
9.0
15.0
117
102
1.2
0.9
2.1
.154


8
Patrick Mills (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa02.html)
24
9 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa02/gamelog/2013/)
31
13.5
.600
.600
.000
.700
3.8
7.2
5.5
10.6
0.0
0.0
9.1
16.8
116
109
0.1
0.0
0.1
.119


9
Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/splitti01.html)
28
19 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/splitti01/gamelog/2013/)
388
13.5
.589
.536
.393
.012
6.4
10.6
8.6
9.1
2.1
2.8
19.6
14.9
107
101
0.4
0.6
1.0
.122


10
Cory Joseph (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/josepco01.html)
21
20 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/josepco01/gamelog/2013/)
192
13.2
.485
.482
.196
.196
4.9
13.3
9.3
19.7
1.7
0.8
14.1
17.5
101
103
0.1
0.2
0.4
.088


11
Matt Bonner (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bonnema01.html)
32
20 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bonnema01/gamelog/2013/)
267
12.7
.630
.602
.203
.542
4.0
12.5
8.4
3.4
1.0
1.4
3.0
11.7
131
104
0.6
0.3
0.9
.169


12
Aron Baynes (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/baynear01.html)
26
4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/baynear01/gamelog/2013/)
23
10.6
.571
.571
.000
.000
10.3
14.5
12.5
0.0
0.0
0.0
12.5
16.5
107
106
0.0
0.0
0.0
.090


13
Boris Diaw (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01.html)
30
16 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01/gamelog/2013/)
273
10.1
.540
.491
.259
.241
3.5
13.0
8.4
15.0
0.8
0.8
17.8
12.7
107
104
0.2
0.3
0.5
.095


14
Gary Neal (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nealga01.html)
28
21 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nealga01/gamelog/2013/)
390
9.0
.503
.470
.119
.489
0.3
12.5
6.6
6.0
0.4
0.2
8.4
18.8
98
106
0.1
0.3
0.4
.052


15
Tracy McGrady (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01.html)
33
6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01/gamelog/2013/)
31
7.0
.000
.000
.000
.429
3.8
25.1
14.8
29.3
3.5
7.4
22.2
13.7
47
90
-0.1
0.1
-0.1
-0.094

[heyheymymy]

Green : shut down Curry, hit a game tieing shot to send game 1 to overtime, broke the Finals 3pt record...

Splitter : got hacked by the Thunder in an elimlnation series, was the worst player in the Finals, 3 years of RJeff like impact in the post season basically...


you're a hack, but when you put it that way, you make a really solid point. But I'll still pass on the Boozer + Snell deal...

[Prime Time]

Green : shut down Curry, hit a game tieing shot to send game 1 to overtime, broke the Finals 3pt record...

Splitter : got hacked by the Thunder in an elimlnation series, was the worst player in the Finals, 3 years of RJeff like impact in the post season basically...
To add on Green's part:
Huge defensive plays against the Heat, Shut down CP3 (2012)

Splitter is pretty meh in terms of what he did in the finals. But his mobility is still pretty vital to this team, especially considering Duncan's age. Not many bigs can guard in the post along with his quickness, that makes him pretty valuable to the Spurs in terms of making another finals run.

[tholdren]

to me, Splitter is expendable. He has proven he cant hold down the fort, and for whatever reasons, people think that his Defense is really good, without stats or any eyeball test/specific examples. You get the "hes the anchor" or "but his PNR defense" throw in any other generalization.... but never any REAL SPECIFIC examples or extended amount of PT where he has changed the game defensively.

- I also find it ironic that people claim he is great on D, yet due to his anti-athletic ability, he cant help quick enough (and then recover) if there is a cutter or a drive. Again, how he is "great" at PNR defense is beyond me.

Back to the point. We have green for a good price, he's a mediocre defender with a streaky shot. I would take that over an overpriced C who is mediocre on defense and no offensive game, with a higher price tag. Again the league is so soft with bigs, tiago should get more than what he is worth in returns.

So...
Who needs a "great defending center" that would be willing to part with a SF/PF that can actually contribute, has a good head on his shoulders, and doesnt do the heroball crap, that is willing to play team-ball in SA?

[exstatic]

to me, Splitter is expendable. He has proven he cant hold down the fort, and for whatever reasons, people think that his Defense is really good, without stats or any eyeball test/specific examples. You get the "hes the anchor" or "but his PNR defense" throw in any other generalization.... but never any REAL SPECIFIC examples or extended amount of PT where he has changed the game defensively.

- I also find it ironic that people claim he is great on D, yet due to his anti-athletic ability, he cant help quick enough (and then recover) if there is a cutter or a drive. Again, how he is "great" at PNR defense is beyond me.

Back to the point. We have green for a good price, he's a mediocre defender with a streaky shot. I would take that over an overpriced C who is mediocre on defense and no offensive game, with a higher price tag. Again the league is so soft with bigs, tiago should get more than what he is worth in returns.

So...
Who needs a "great defending center" that would be willing to part with a SF/PF that can actually contribute, has a good head on his shoulders, and doesnt do the heroball crap, that is willing to play team-ball in SA?

Bullshit. Splitter has the 4th best FG% against defense by a big in the league. He also has the lowest (good) defensive rate on the Spurs.

[UZER]

to me, Splitter is expendable. He has proven he cant hold down the fort, and for whatever reasons, people think that his Defense is really good, without stats or any eyeball test/specific examples. You get the "hes the anchor" or "but his PNR defense" throw in any other generalization.... but never any REAL SPECIFIC examples or extended amount of PT where he has changed the game defensively.

- I also find it ironic that people claim he is great on D, yet due to his anti-athletic ability, he cant help quick enough (and then recover) if there is a cutter or a drive. Again, how he is "great" at PNR defense is beyond me.

Back to the point. We have green for a good price, he's a mediocre defender with a streaky shot. I would take that over an overpriced C who is mediocre on defense and no offensive game, with a higher price tag. Again the league is so soft with bigs, tiago should get more than what he is worth in returns.

So...
Who needs a "great defending center" that would be willing to part with a SF/PF that can actually contribute, has a good head on his shoulders, and doesnt do the heroball crap, that is willing to play team-ball in SA?

I like Green considering his price and his role. He does it well, and when he and kawhi are on defensively, its really disruptive. People expect to much from Green. He has a role and does it well.

As far as Splitter, I agree he is expendable. I never said he was a great defender. I said his PnR defense against the grizz and Gs were huge. He wasn't and anchor, but he made key defensive plays in big moments, not necessarily the block, but sliding over and forcing the O player to make an adjustment.

In the playoffs, you need physicality. He lacks that. As much as I dislike Ayers, in the playoffs, his toughness will he much appreciated when it gets tough in the trenches vs what we've had in recent years. That is my only explanation for all the PT he's getting. Pop sees his toughness translating well when the game turns into a grind in the post season.

[DPG21920]

From a broader perspective, it makes sense to be a "buyer" in this market. Using deals like the Deng deal as an example, the price for players is pretty low. Assets like the willingness to take on money and first rounders have a ton of value (more than normal) right now.

For a contending team, you may be able to get a very quality player for those assets whereas before you could not.

[ace3g]

San Antonio Spurs @spurs

(https://twitter.com/spurs)[RELEASE] The Spurs have recalled De Colo from the @austintoros (https://twitter.com/austintoros/): nba.com/spurs/news/140… (http://t.co/4LB7FLAx44) #GoSpursGo


(https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoSpursGo)Aggressive trade in 3,2,1....

[RD2191]

San Antonio Spurs @spurs

(https://twitter.com/spurs)[RELEASE] The Spurs have recalled De Colo from the @austintoros (https://twitter.com/austintoros/): nba.com/spurs/news/140… (http://t.co/4LB7FLAx44) #GoSpursGo


(https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoSpursGo)Aggressive trade in 3,2,1....


Any word on Thomas?

[tholdren]

Bullshit. Splitter has the 4th best FG% against defense by a big in the league. He also has the lowest (good) defensive rate on the Spurs.

Link of who is shooting against him and this stat.

I dont see him here http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_active.html

We have 3 players in the top 20 Defensive Rating - Tim, Leonard, Green
We have 2 in the top 20 in defensive WS - Tim, Kawhi

Hes nowhere to be found on rebounding/blocks/steals.... but you know who is... Dejuan Blair....

Tiago is overhyped. He's a decent role player, but he's not even worth starting over Tim or Diaw. For what we paid him he should be somewhere on some list, other than popping up on message boards by posters praising his signing. Fact of the matter is, no matter how you try to slice it, Splitter was overhyped and has under-performed. with the defense SA is getting from Tim and the wings, playing C in a whack ass league for big men, he's easy to hide.

[Frenchie]

San Antonio Spurs @spurs

(https://twitter.com/spurs)[RELEASE] The Spurs have recalled De Colo from the @austintoros (https://twitter.com/austintoros/): nba.com/spurs/news/140… (http://t.co/4LB7FLAx44) #GoSpursGo


(https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoSpursGo)Aggressive trade in 3,2,1....


Manu will probably be out tonight. Not sure that means a trade is imminent.

[ChumpDumper]

Hes nowhere to be found on rebounding/blocks/steals.... but you know who is... Dejuan Blair.... Are you saying Blair is a good defender?

[tholdren]

Are you saying Blair is a good defender?

In Comparison to Splitter Yes. Blair is an exceptional rebounder, which has to do with defense. He has the best hands of any C in the league when it comes to deflections and steals. His issue is that he is Manu on defense. Due to his height, he has to get creative and gamble. Some people love it, some people hate it (manu's balls-to-the-wall offensive philosophy). The nay-sayers will call out his out-of-position and lack of height any time he misses a steal, or gets beat in the post, but those same people will never acknowledge that he deflected the pass that Parker picked up (and is TP is credited for the steal).

I already posted how Blair and Splitter compare at the C position, and statistically blair is better. When compared at the PF position Tiago is better.

Splitter is on a defensive minded team, and still is the 4-5 best defender on the team, even though defense is why we signed him. His career d rating is 101 just like Blairs. Blair is on the Mavs, they are mediocre team defense, but Blair still is rated at 102, which is the best on the team.... Tiago is hyped and paid more than he should be.

[Chinook]

Link of who is shooting against him and this stat.

I dont see him here http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_active.html

We have 3 players in the top 20 Defensive Rating - Tim, Leonard, Green
We have 2 in the top 20 in defensive WS - Tim, Kawhi

Hes nowhere to be found on rebounding/blocks/steals.... but you know who is... Dejuan Blair....

Tiago is overhyped. He's a decent role player, but he's not even worth starting over Tim or Diaw. For what we paid him he should be somewhere on some list, other than popping up on message boards by posters praising his signing. Fact of the matter is, no matter how you try to slice it, Splitter was overhyped and has under-performed. with the defense SA is getting from Tim and the wings, playing C in a whack ass league for big men, he's easy to hide.

We've gone over this ad nauseum. DRtg is not a good stat to evaluate actual defense. It approxmiates that by using blocks, steals and rebounds along with team DRtg. It's not really that reliable. Splitter leads the team in only allowing .97 PPP. Even if you don't believe me, his DRtg is still very good, just a point behind Rubio.

I think we'd all like to see more from Splitter as far as stats are concerned. But you're looking at Splitter at his worst with Duncan killing spacing and trying to act like that's his normal. It's like saying Green is a terrible shooter by looking at his recent games.

[eDizzle20]

The thing that can be so maddening with Splitter is that when the playoffs come along he becomes a matchup liability sooner our later. There's no reason a starter getting $9 million/year like Splitter should be riding the bench in the Finals. Lebron's block on him in game 2 destroyed his confidence for the remainder of the Finals. If the NBA was still a league of dominant big men he would be perfect, but those days are long gone.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes.OK, thanks.

[apalisoc_9]

Link of who is shooting against him and this stat.

I dont see him here http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_active.html

We have 3 players in the top 20 Defensive Rating - Tim, Leonard, Green
We have 2 in the top 20 in defensive WS - Tim, Kawhi

Hes nowhere to be found on rebounding/blocks/steals.... but you know who is... Dejuan Blair....

Tiago is overhyped. He's a decent role player, but he's not even worth starting over Tim or Diaw. For what we paid him he should be somewhere on some list, other than popping up on message boards by posters praising his signing. Fact of the matter is, no matter how you try to slice it, Splitter was overhyped and has under-performed. with the defense SA is getting from Tim and the wings, playing C in a whack ass league for big men, he's easy to hide.

:lmao

[SupremeGuy]

lol @ blair being a better defender than splitter

[td4mvp2k]

lol @ blair being a better defender than splitterand talk bout crybabys tbh... :lol

[benefactor]

^ from the guy who thinks Green is more likely to be moved than Splitter :lol:

How about this : I'll ban myself from upstair and not just the trade thread if Green gets traded before Splitter. And if they do ship Splitter somewhere I'll just enjoy seeing you backpedaling all butthurt...
...from the guy that wants to trade for Carl:lols B:lol:lolzer.

You are one of the dumbest posters this site has ever seen. Seriously. No trolling.

[anakha]

Are you saying Blair is a good defender?


Yes.

Oy vey.

[MVPCues]

Oy vey.

+1000

[ace3g]

Hopefully this isn't related to Manu's injury status.

[cd021]

He'd be a monumental upgrade over both players. If he's in the last year of his deal I say he's even more appealing. I'm not a big Prince fan, but he does guard well and he would fit the system.

$7.7 million this season and next season. currently shooting 41% & 30% from the field and from 3.His p.e.r is 8.5. he can defend but is severely overpaid.

[3 Legged Dog]

Not Cory. He has a good chance to take Mills' spot soon. Not Bonner either. They'll move him to get something, but not just for the hell of it. He still has value to the team in his limited role

Are you on crack? Cory has a better chance of being out of the league than taking Patty's minutes. Bonner? He'll give you NOTHING in the playoffs. He's very expendable

[Robz4000]

Hopefully this isn't related to Manu's injury status.

I see what you did there :stirpot:...

[Chinook]

Are you on crack? Cory has a better chance of being out of the league than taking Patty's minutes. Bonner? He'll give you NOTHING in the playoffs. He's very expendable

He's already taking them. Pop keeps giving him chances regardless of your opinion on him. It's quite likely that he, Parker and a rookie are the PGs next year and Mills is making Neal money elsewhere.

[Darkwaters]

In Comparison to Splitter Yes. Blair is an exceptional rebounder, which has to do with defense. He has the best hands of any C in the league when it comes to deflections and steals. His issue is that he is Manu on defense. Due to his height, he has to get creative and gamble. Some people love it, some people hate it (manu's balls-to-the-wall offensive philosophy). The nay-sayers will call out his out-of-position and lack of height any time he misses a steal, or gets beat in the post, but those same people will never acknowledge that he deflected the pass that Parker picked up (and is TP is credited for the steal).

I already posted how Blair and Splitter compare at the C position, and statistically blair is better. When compared at the PF position Tiago is better.

Splitter is on a defensive minded team, and still is the 4-5 best defender on the team, even though defense is why we signed him. His career d rating is 101 just like Blairs. Blair is on the Mavs, they are mediocre team defense, but Blair still is rated at 102, which is the best on the team.... Tiago is hyped and paid more than he should be.

Wow. Our quality of posters seems to be taking a serious nosedive.

[Sean Cagney]

to me, Splitter is expendable. He has proven he cant hold down the fort, and for whatever reasons, people think that his Defense is really good, without stats or any eyeball test/specific examples. You get the "hes the anchor" or "but his PNR defense" throw in any other generalization.... but never any REAL SPECIFIC examples or extended amount of PT where he has changed the game defensively.

- I also find it ironic that people claim he is great on D, yet due to his anti-athletic ability, he cant help quick enough (and then recover) if there is a cutter or a drive. Again, how he is "great" at PNR defense is beyond me.

Back to the point. We have green for a good price, he's a mediocre defender with a streaky shot. I would take that over an overpriced C who is mediocre on defense and no offensive game, with a higher price tag. Again the league is so soft with bigs, tiago should get more than what he is worth in returns.

So...
Who needs a "great defending center" that would be willing to part with a SF/PF that can actually contribute, has a good head on his shoulders, and doesnt do the heroball crap, that is willing to play team-ball in SA?

Stop looking at D RATINGS and all that crap all the time to prove who is what and just watch a game and actually see what he does on D or doesn't DO. These ratings are like PER trying to prove someone is an all star or the meaningless +/- crap at times, doesn't show nearly the whole.

[Chinook]

Stop looking at D RATINGS and all that crap all the time to prove who is what and just watch a game and actually see what he does on D or doesn't DO. These ratings are like PER trying to prove someone is an all star or the meaningless +/- crap at times, doesn't show nearly the whole.

The problem isn't the stats. It's the fact that most people don't understand the math behind each stat, and so they can't put them in context. It's like looking at PPG but ignoring FG%.

[exstatic]

Stop looking at D RATINGS and all that crap all the time to prove who is what and just watch a game and actually see what he does on D or doesn't DO. These ratings are like PER trying to prove someone is an all star or the meaningless +/- crap at times, doesn't show nearly the whole.

Most front offices beg to differ with you. Nearly everyone is going to the new advanced stats. It took about 10 years for it to become ubiquitous in MLB, but I don't imagine that it will take that long in the NBA.

You can't use the eye test. By the eye test, Rudy Gay looks like a great player, but advanced stats expose him as a fraud. Memphis had their best two playoff runs without him, and Toronto has gone on a absolute tear after trading him.

Advanced stats expose both efficiencies and inefficencies on both offense and defense. If you utilize the efficient and discard the inefficient, your team will maximize it's potential. The more you use it, the bigger the overall gap between the efficient and the inefficient becomes.

[tholdren]

Stop looking at D RATINGS and all that crap all the time to prove who is what and just watch a game and actually see what he does on D or doesn't DO. These ratings are like PER trying to prove someone is an all star or the meaningless +/- crap at times, doesn't show nearly the whole.

There's nothing else to look for other than D ratings. The splitter crowd claims his prowess on defense, obviously they can't see, and the only way to prove is by tossing the stats out for evidence. If I say, Splitter cant defend nearly good enough to justify his contract, then have no basis for this other than my own opinion, there is no way to prove the claim. Similarly, in a refute you can't/shouldn't just type the equivalent of "you're wrong cause I say so." There has to be some evidence, and sometimes stats are a way to justify the concept.

I can agree to from your above post, is that +/- and D ratings are not as good as watching the game. There are so much more that players do on the court that make more of an impact than anything a stat could show. Plays that change momentum are worth more than a three-pointer, and sometimes worth giving up a few points for.

[cjw]

lol @ blair being a better defender than splitter

Not to mention he can't rebound anymore either given his knees are shot.

[ElNono]

Most front offices beg to differ with you. Nearly everyone is going to the new advanced stats. It took about 10 years for it to become ubiquitous in MLB, but I don't imagine that it will take that long in the NBA.

You can't use the eye test. By the eye test, Rudy Gay looks like a great player, but advanced stats expose him as a fraud. Memphis had their best two playoff runs without him, and Toronto has gone on a absolute tear after trading him.

Advanced stats expose both efficiencies and inefficencies on both offense and defense. If you utilize the efficient and discard the inefficient, your team will maximize it's potential. The more you use it, the bigger the overall gap between the efficient and the inefficient becomes.

I'm a big fan of advanced stats, tbh, but you can't forget it's just a tool, no more, no less... it's no end-all, be-all...

For your argument about Gay (which I agree with), I would counter with the Grizzlies team in general, which bet heavily on advanced stats by hiring the poster boy for them, and have made dubious decisions at best (Prince when they needed outside shooting, Mike Miller to try to eventually address that without any semblance of success, letting go the coach that elevated them to the best season in franchise history, etc)...

[DPG21920]

Not fair about MEM IMO. There use of stats got them further than they every have gone in franchise history (WCF). They got unlucky this year with the Marc Gasol injury which makes it difficult to see how good they could be. Their coach was terrible IMO so that isn't a big deal, but they do have some holes. But let's see how things play out over the years with MEM.

[ElNono]

I would disagree on that. I think they were a flawed team (especially their outside shooting, something that advanced stats glaringly showed for them, and they tried to correct with Mike Miller this season). They were just as fortunate as the Spurs as far as Westbrook's injury. I think they had an excellent coach that got the most out of that group. I do agree that the Gasol's injury obviously hurt them this season and so it's difficult to measure how good/bad they could've been (this season).

[HarlemHeat37]

There are so many advanced stats now, you can easily and accurately gauge a player's value and impact, tbh..

Advanced stats IMO are not basic and flawed formulas like PER, Win Shares, any of Dean Oliver's horrible shit, etc..the best formulaic stat is RAPM(so far), but it has it's share of flaws, as well..the best advanced stats are all the tools that provide you with descriptive videos and possession-by-possession analysis that isn't limited to raw box score numbers, tbh..

Hollinger being an advanced stats guy doesn't really represent anything IMO..he's still working for a franchise that is limited by location/money in most instances..every team except for the Lakers is now emphasizing advanced metrics IIRC..

[Sean Cagney]

The problem isn't the stats. It's the fact that most people don't understand the math behind each stat, and so they can't put them in context. It's like looking at PPG but ignoring FG%.

True.

[Sean Cagney]

There's nothing else to look for other than D ratings. The splitter crowd claims his prowess on defense, obviously they can't see, and the only way to prove is by tossing the stats out for evidence. If I say, Splitter cant defend nearly good enough to justify his contract, then have no basis for this other than my own opinion, there is no way to prove the claim. Similarly, in a refute you can't/shouldn't just type the equivalent of "you're wrong cause I say so." There has to be some evidence, and sometimes stats are a way to justify the concept.

I can agree to from your above post, is that +/- and D ratings are not as good as watching the game. There are so much more that players do on the court that make more of an impact than anything a stat could show. Plays that change momentum are worth more than a three-pointer, and sometimes worth giving up a few points for.

Splitter is a much better man on man defender than Blair is though, thats no question at all. Blair played matador D here pretty much and I saw alot of him, never would confuse that guy for a defender.
Most front offices beg to differ with you. Nearly everyone is going to the new advanced stats. It took about 10 years for it to become ubiquitous in MLB, but I don't imagine that it will take that long in the NBA.

You can't use the eye test. By the eye test, Rudy Gay looks like a great player, but advanced stats expose him as a fraud. Memphis had their best two playoff runs without him, and Toronto has gone on a absolute tear after trading him.

Advanced stats expose both efficiencies and inefficencies on both offense and defense. If you utilize the efficient and discard the inefficient, your team will maximize it's potential. The more you use it, the bigger the overall gap between the efficient and the inefficient becomes.
So advanced STATS would say that Blair is as good as a defender or better than Splitter correct? I usually go by what I see that doesn't show up in a stat sheet. I can agree on points per possession when on the floor and other things as indication. At times an ace defender though won't be glaring on steals or blocks etc., some bum can gamble and average a few steals a game when he is not a good defender but BOWEN who did not always show up on the stat sheet can shut you down without a single steal or block! Points per possession I can see on an individual guy and FG% against etc., but that is hard to really guage at times unless you really study the stats. I see what you are saying but crap like +/- or PER 48 mins I just laugh at in certain arguments.

[DPG21920]

True, there is a difference in what Hollinger has to do (moneyball for a franchise with little market appeal and limited funds) vs what a Lakers would do with advanced stats because of their built in advantages. The fact is, they traded Gay largely because of Hollinger and they got to the WCF.

Hollins was a terrible coach IMO (which is why he is still without a job tbh..).

[HarlemHeat37]

As for Splitter, he's absolutely a great defensive player, tbh..

Among big men, he's #6 in the NBA in FG% allowed at the rim this season, and rim protection isn't even his specialty, tbh..

Last year, he was #9 in the league in post up defense:lol, so this season hasn't been an anomaly..

Splitter's numbers don't suffer without Duncan, for those that will blindly use Tim's presence as their counter-argument..

It's especially impressive considering he's one of the few great post defenders that can also defend the pick&roll at a high level..there are less than 10 players that fit this criteria, tbh..

The Spurs paid him for a reason, and obviously that isn't because of his great offensive game:lol..

[testies]

As for Splitter, he's absolutely a great defensive player, tbh..

Among big men, he's #6 in the NBA in FG% allowed at the rim this season, and rim protection isn't even his specialty, tbh..

Last year, he was #9 in the league in post up defense:lol, so this season hasn't been an anomaly..

Splitter's numbers don't suffer without Duncan, for those that will blindly use Tim's presence as their counter-argument..

It's especially impressive considering he's one of the few great post defenders that can also defend the pick&roll at a high level..there are less than 10 players that fit this criteria, tbh..

The Spurs paid him for a reason, and obviously that isn't because of his great offensive game:lol..

This tholdren guy is really clueless on analyzing the actual game form basketball apart from ~LOL HE JUMP HE REBOUND HE GOOD DEFENZE!!11

He even said BLAIR is better than Splitter on defence.. That should be ban worthy.. the same blair that JVG was ripping on his horrible defence on duncan.. I saw Splitter switch on Curry this season and be successful.. The times in important games in postseasons last year that he switched and forced guards to make difficult shots, when he canceled Randolph or Gasol many times.. ffs.. he was crucial in sweeping Memphis and beating a very, very, extremely tough GS team

I literally never got so mad reading anyone`s comments on the internet as bad as this tholdren one

[Spursfanfromafar]

Hollins was a terrible coach IMO (which is why he is still without a job tbh..).

Nonsense. Hollins was a great coach who coaxed the Grizz to play excellent defense and did a lot of player development as well, grooming Conley and Gasol into very good players. If anything, Hollins was a bit too stubborn in the way he played his team and bringing up talent much more slowly than his FO demanded (Ed Davis etc).

Hollinger & co. made a big mistake removing Hollins and getting a tyro to coach the team. Joerger still seems yet to be bought by his team and that is why the Grizz have suffered such a drop in just one year.

Hollins, btw, was offered a number of assistant coach gigs, but apparently he refused, if I remember reading reports correctly.

[Baam]

As for Splitter, he's absolutely a great defensive player, tbh..

Among big men, he's #6 in the NBA in FG% allowed at the rim this season, and rim protection isn't even his specialty, tbh..

Last year, he was #9 in the league in post up defense:lol, so this season hasn't been an anomaly..

Splitter's numbers don't suffer without Duncan, for those that will blindly use Tim's presence as their counter-argument..

It's especially impressive considering he's one of the few great post defenders that can also defend the pick&roll at a high level..there are less than 10 players that fit this criteria, tbh..

The Spurs paid him for a reason, and obviously that isn't because of his great offensive game:lol..

They paid him to play between Tim and Kawhi and he can't do that anymore.

[ElNono]

Nonsense. Hollins was a great coach who coaxed the Grizz to play excellent defense and did a lot of player development as well, grooming Conley and Gasol into very good players. If anything, Hollins was a bit too stubborn in the way he played his team and bringing up talent much more slowly than his FO demanded (Ed Davis etc).

Hollinger & co. made a big mistake removing Hollins and getting a tyro to coach the team. Joerger still seems yet to be bought by his team and that is why the Grizz have suffered such a drop in just one year.

Hollins, btw, was offered a number of assistant coach gigs, but apparently he refused, if I remember reading reports correctly.

IIRC, the Grizz won their first playoffs series with Hollins at the helm, and also had the franchise's best winning percentage for a season. Both things happened before Hollinger arrival too.

[HarlemHeat37]

They paid him to play between Tim and Kawhi and he can't do that anymore.

I'd like to see him coming off the bench, and while that sucks that you would be paying somebody so much money to come off the bench, I think it would help both units..

[ElNono]

As for Splitter, he's absolutely a great defensive player, tbh..

Among big men, he's #6 in the NBA in FG% allowed at the rim this season, and rim protection isn't even his specialty, tbh..

Last year, he was #9 in the league in post up defense:lol, so this season hasn't been an anomaly..

Splitter's numbers don't suffer without Duncan, for those that will blindly use Tim's presence as their counter-argument..

It's especially impressive considering he's one of the few great post defenders that can also defend the pick&roll at a high level..there are less than 10 players that fit this criteria, tbh..

The Spurs paid him for a reason, and obviously that isn't because of his great offensive game:lol..

Which in turn helps Duncan, since he has to spend less energy banging on the defensive side.

[HarlemHeat37]

Nonsense. Hollins was a great coach who coaxed the Grizz to play excellent defense and did a lot of player development as well, grooming Conley and Gasol into very good players. If anything, Hollins was a bit too stubborn in the way he played his team and bringing up talent much more slowly than his FO demanded (Ed Davis etc).

Hollinger & co. made a big mistake removing Hollins and getting a tyro to coach the team. Joerger still seems yet to be bought by his team and that is why the Grizz have suffered such a drop in just one year.

Hollins, btw, was offered a number of assistant coach gigs, but apparently he refused, if I remember reading reports correctly.

Hollins wanted to keep Rudy Gay, which would have prevented Memphis from making their run, tbh..last year's Grizzlies team was one of the 3 worst WCF teams in my lifetime IMO..

Joerger designed Memphis's defensive system in the past IIRC, so he deserves a lot of credit..

Hollins is an average coach IMO..

[exstatic]

Nonsense. Hollins was a great coach who coaxed the Grizz to play excellent defense and did a lot of player development as well, grooming Conley and Gasol into very good players. If anything, Hollins was a bit too stubborn in the way he played his team and bringing up talent much more slowly than his FO demanded (Ed Davis etc).

Hollinger & co. made a big mistake removing Hollins and getting a tyro to coach the team. Joerger still seems yet to be bought by his team and that is why the Grizz have suffered such a drop in just one year.

Hollins, btw, was offered a number of assistant coach gigs, but apparently he refused, if I remember reading reports correctly.

A front office that makes it's decisions primarily using advanced stats will never peacefully coexist with a coach who scoffs them. Everybody has to pull in the same direction.

[ElNono]

Hollins wanted to keep Rudy Gay, which would have prevented Memphis from making their run, tbh..last year's Grizzlies team was one of the 3 worst WCF teams in my lifetime IMO..

Joerger designed Memphis's defensive system in the past IIRC, so he deserves a lot of credit..

Hollins is an average coach IMO..

I don't think Hollins would work on every team, but I thought he had that group believing and you could argue overachieving... while I thought trading Gay was the correct move, that team needed outside shooting badly and it was never really addressed... Can't pin that on the coach, tbh

[ElNono]

A front office that makes it's decisions primarily using advanced stats will never peacefully coexist with a coach who scoffs them. Everybody has to pull in the same direction.

BTW this is true too...

[HarlemHeat37]

I would have retained Hollins, it's stupid to let go of a coach of a WCFs team that went deeper than they had ever previously reached in franchise history..I'm just saying, I don't think the Grizzlies would have been anything better than a 7th seed with their limited roster, Randolph on the decline and Gasol injured..

[Spursfanfromafar]

Hollins wanted to keep Rudy Gay, which would have prevented Memphis from making their run, tbh..last year's Grizzlies team was one of the 3 worst WCF teams in my lifetime IMO..

Joerger designed Memphis's defensive system in the past IIRC, so he deserves a lot of credit..

Hollins is an average coach IMO..

Lots of contradictions in what you say..

Yes, Hollins wanted to keep Gay, but he did get the post-Gay Grizz to compete and get into the playoffs on a high. They simply didn't do enough against the Spurs because they completely lacked perimeter play (which was precisely what Hollins was emphasising he was talking about Gay's retention).

Hollins' strength as a coach is seen in the way he built the Grizz upto a good, competing squad a la the Thunder (after Carlesimo was chucked).

Trouble with Hollinger & co is that while their advanced stats brigade thinks well and better than the gut feel gang, they just take it a bit too far. Advanced stats folks are useful as an add-on, not as the "thing".

[Spursfanfromafar]

IIRC, the Grizz won their first playoffs series with Hollins at the helm, and also had the franchise's best winning percentage for a season. Both things happened before Hollinger arrival too.

Yes. Precisely.

[Sean Cagney]

Lots of contradictions in what you say..

Yes, Hollins wanted to keep Gay, but he did get the post-Gay Grizz to compete and get into the playoffs on a high. They simply didn't do enough against the Spurs because they completely lacked perimeter play (which was precisely what Hollins was emphasising he was talking about Gay's retention).

Hollins' strength as a coach is seen in the way he built the Grizz upto a good, competing squad a la the Thunder (after Carlesimo was chucked).

Trouble with Hollinger & co is that while their advanced stats brigade thinks well and better than the gut feel gang, they just take it a bit too far. Advanced stats folks are useful as an add-on, not as the "thing".

Agreed, Hollins was a good coach as well don't know how anyone could say he was average or a bad coach. Good post.

[Baam]

Imo they should have retained Hollins OR now they have to go full moneyball and trade Zbo like Hollinger is dying to do...

Doesn't make sense to fire Hollins and still be cockblocked from going full moneyball by the Zbo thing... Doing one of the two is a lose lose situation... But hey it's not that easy to trade a fan favorite screaming he wants to stay and would feel betrayed otherwise...

[BatManu20]

Bonner for Lebron straight up. Otherwise, this team isn't making any (meaningful) trades. Same story, different year.

[DPG21920]

I can't really believe we are having this discussion tbh..Hollins is a below average coach.

From an anecdotal perspective it's really, really difficult for a coach that has experienced any sort of success to not get a job in the NBA. Wether their success was deserved, any success pretty much grandfathers you into to a head coaching job. Not only did Memphis not want him, plenty of other teams with HC openings did not want him. People asked about him for an assistant coach position only which should tell you something.

Not so anecdotal, his insistance on playing Gay and running offense through him was a big reason the team underwhelmed. Not only was it obvious that Marc/ZBo needed more touched, but the keys needed to be handed to Conley much sooner. It's not hard to field a great defensive team when you have Conley/Tony Allen + a big man anchor of Gasol. But Hollins insistance on playing Gay big minutes and running offense through him held the team back. It was only when management stepped in and forced his hand by moving Gay did the team realize their potential. He simply played the guys that were left and it forced the Conley growth and defensive improvements.

He still complained about the trade even today (just listen to him on Sirius FM NBA Radio). His antiquated mindset, limited play calling ability and failure to adjust during games is what makes him a below average coach IMO. There is a reason he is out of a job.

[cd021]

I'm a big fan of advanced stats, tbh, but you can't forget it's just a tool, no more, no less... it's no end-all, be-all...

For your argument about Gay (which I agree with), I would counter with the Grizzlies team in general, which bet heavily on advanced stats by hiring the poster boy for them, and have made dubious decisions at best (Prince when they needed outside shooting, Mike Miller to try to eventually address that without any semblance of success, letting go the coach that elevated them to the best season in franchise history, etc)...

That was a major bust of a move acquiring him. Shooting 40% and 30% from 3 (which he rarely even shoots anymore) They are paying him $7.7 million next season too. Seems like they are swapping player for player in hopes that the player they acquire will be slightly better and push them closer to being elite.

Also ,adding Lee will cost them more than $11 million over the next couple of seasons. Moving him for Bayless ( who was struggling, granted) who was on the final year of his deal).

[Spursfanfromafar]

I can't really believe we are having this discussion tbh..Hollins is a below average coach.

From an anecdotal perspective it's really, really difficult for a coach that has experienced any sort of success to not get a job in the NBA. Wether their success was deserved, any success pretty much grandfathers you into to a head coaching job. Not only did Memphis not want him, plenty of other teams with HC openings did not want him. People asked about him for an assistant coach position only which should tell you something.

Not so anecdotal, his insistance on playing Gay and running offense through him was a big reason the team underwhelmed. Not only was it obvious that Marc/ZBo needed more touched, but the keys needed to be handed to Conley much sooner. It's not hard to field a great defensive team when you have Conley/Tony Allen + a big man anchor of Gasol. But Hollins insistance on playing Gay big minutes and running offense through him held the team back. It was only when management stepped in and forced his hand by moving Gay did the team realize their potential. He simply played the guys that were left and it forced the Conley growth and defensive improvements.

He still complained about the trade even today (just listen to him on Sirius FM NBA Radio). His antiquated mindset, limited play calling ability and failure to adjust during games is what makes him a below average coach IMO. There is a reason he is out of a job.

A simple look into the defensive rating of the Memphis team during the Hollins era and after it (even in the games where Marc Gasol played) shows up your poor argument. So does, a look into the win-loss record of the same team under Lionel Hollins over the years.

By no means, was Hollins a bad coach at all.

Considering it is just months since he lost his job and he has already refused decent assistant coach gigs, it is plain stupid to say that he is unemployed because he is incapable.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/01/lionel-hollins-turned-down-opportunity-to-be-an-assistant-coach-with-pistons/

[DPG21920]

No it doesn't. The sample size with a new coach this year isn't large enough to "show up any argument". I didn't say he didn't win games - he had a very talented team. One that had very good defensive players which will help you win games.

He was a bad coach. His own team didn't want him and there were plenty of HC vacancies this year. He turned down AC offer(s) to wait for a HC offer that never came, hence him being out of the NBA.

[Spursfanfromafar]

No it doesn't. The sample size with a new coach this year isn't large enough to "show up any argument". I didn't say he didn't win games - he had a very talented team. One that had very good defensive players which will help you win games.

He was a bad coach. His own team didn't want him and there were plenty of HC vacancies this year. He turned down AC offer(s) to wait for a HC offer that never came, hence him being out of the NBA.

yeah, right. He was a bad coach and his team won a lot of games despite him. Just like your argument that you are correct despite the facts.

[DPG21920]

:lol What facts? I say he's not good which is why he's out of a job and you post an article about DET wanting him as an assistant coach. Even that article states he turned it down to await a HC offer & it never came. That is a fact.

You trying to use this year's sample size as a means to make any sort of definitive argument is silly to me largely due to the fact the team has been injured for a long time. His team won games because they were a good team - plenty of teams win games (Clippers with VDN..) with average to bad coaches. There is a reason they went further when management stepped in and forced his hand vs what he was doing. The fact he complained about and still does complain about the trade that allowed the team to go further than before shows the depth of his ineptitude.

[RD2191]

:wakeup

[Spursfanfromafar]

:lol What facts? I say he's not good which is why he's out of a job and you post an article about DET wanting him as an assistant coach. Even that article states he turned it down to await a HC offer & it never came. That is a fact.

You trying to use this year's sample size as a means to make any sort of definitive argument is silly to me largely due to the fact the team has been injured for a long time. His team won games because they were a good team - plenty of teams win games (Clippers with VDN..) with average to bad coaches. There is a reason they went further when management stepped in and forced his hand vs what he was doing. The fact he complained about and still does complain about the trade that allowed the team to go further than before shows the depth of his ineptitude.

Lol.. you say that the sample size of 35 odd games is small but you ignore the larger sample of 5 seasons, when the Grizz basically progressed into a very good defensive team, after being laughed off as a stupid team post the "laughable" Gasol trade.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/hollili01c.html (from 0.333 to .488 to .561 to .621 to .688).. Yeah, a "bad coach" indeed!.

And lol... that you say that he is without a job, because he was fired only a few months ago and clearly the only teams hiring coaches were mostly tanking.

Poor logic, again.

[DPG21920]

No - poor logic is not acknowledging how his reliance on Gay held the team back and only when Gay was moved did the team advance further in the playoffs than ever before.

Poor logic is claiming he turned down "good AC jobs" then posting one article about a DET AC job when DET is awful and has been for a while. Of course there is always an excuse for him to support your theory (MEM didn't agree with him, all the teams that needed a HC were tanking..) instead of realizing that a non-tanking team in MEM let him go while getting to see him for years and no one except a terrible DET team knocked on his door.

Tanking or not, great coaches, hell even average coaches that want to coach don't go without jobs in the NBA.Tanking or not, if you have a chance to get a "very good coach" you don't pass that up. It's just silly to sit there and act like a coach that held his team back (and by that I don't mean he made them bad, but kept them from realizing their true potential) and argued with the move that allowed them to flourish when it mattered is a good coach.

He's stubborn, not a very good adjustments/x's & o's guy and has a very old school mindset that doesn't sit well with people hence him being on Sirius XM radio vs with a team.

[Spursfanfromafar]

No - poor logic is not acknowledging how his reliance on Gay held the team back and only when Gay was moved did the team advance further in the playoffs than ever before.

Poor logic is claiming he turned down "good AC jobs" then posting one article about a DET AC job when DET is awful and has been for a while. Of course there is always an excuse for him to support your theory (MEM didn't agree with him, all the teams that needed a HC were tanking..) instead of realizing that a non-tanking team in MEM let him go while getting to see him for years and no one except a terrible DET team knocked on his door.

Tanking or not, great coaches, hell even average coaches that want to coach don't go without jobs in the NBA.Tanking or not, if you have a chance to get a "very good coach" you don't pass that up. It's just silly to sit there and act like a coach that held his team back (and by that I don't mean he made them bad, but kept them from realizing their true potential) and argued with the move that allowed them to flourish when it mattered is a good coach.

He's stubborn, not a very good adjustments/x's & o's guy and has a very old school mindset that doesn't sit well with people hence him being on Sirius XM radio vs with a team.

All you have is opinion and not facts.

The Gay trade helped them, definitely, but the lack of a perimeter player who could score hurt them against the Spurs who did a great job of bottling up Randolph and daring the perimeter guys like Allen & Prince, both of whom were flops offensively.

In essence, Hollins' point was right. The replacement they got for Gay wasn't good enough.

And you made the point that the league was shunning him because he was a "bad coach". No, that wasn't the case, he was indeed getting job offers from rebuilding teams who had already hired coaches. And he hasn't still got a job in *a few months* since his firing because there aren't any available for his profile as a veteran's coach. As simple as that.

Lastly, your argument that he is bad is based on his refusal to acknowledge the Gay trade.. thats all. Thats poor logic.

The larger body of his work of his transformation of the Grizzlies from pathetic losers to contenders - rejuvenation of Randolph, blossoming of Gasol & Conley, the strong defensive system, the "Grit & Grind" Fundamentals etc... had much to do with his coaching.. which you simply ignore, as behooves your stupid logic.

[RD2191]

http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/WellThatEscalatedQuickly-19599.jpg

[SupremeGuy]

http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/WellThatEscalatedQuickly-19599.jpg:lmao

[Chinook]

Love this tangential debate.

Hollins is a good coach. He coached a solid playoff team with the handicap of Gay there and then got them to the WCF without any decent offensive wing. Hollinger downplayed Hollins' hand in that, just like many posters on this site do. He gave the DC the job and is having a Raheem Morris--like effect.

Advanced stats suffer from being stats, meaning they follow the basic assumption of being IID (Individual and Independently Distributed). They assume a 45-percent three-point shooter is 45-percent likely to make any given three. But that's not true. There are tons of variables that haven't been accounted for. Stats can only tell you what has already happened. They are NOT designed to predict the future. That's why running an organization using stats will fail if there are no old-school people-people in the brain trust.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Love this tangential debate.

Hollins is a good coach. He coached a solid playoff team with the handicap of Gay there and then got them to the WCF without any decent offensive wing. Hollinger downplayed Hollins' hand in that, just like many posters on this site do. He gave the DC the job and is having a Raheem Morris--like effect.

Advanced stats suffer from being stats, meaning they follow the basic assumption of being IID (Individual and Independently Distributed). They assume a 45-percent three-point shooter is 45-percent likely to make any given three. But that's not true. There are tons of variables that haven't been accounted for. Stats can only tell you what has already happened. They are NOT designed to predict the future. That's why running an organization using stats will fail if there are no old-school people-people in the brain trust.

Great points on the "IID" thing.

[RD2191]

:lmao
:lol

[DPG21920]

All you have is opinion and not facts.

The Gay trade helped them, definitely, but the lack of a perimeter player who could score hurt them against the Spurs who did a great job of bottling up Randolph and daring the perimeter guys like Allen & Prince, both of whom were flops offensively.

In essence, Hollins' point was right. The replacement they got for Gay wasn't good enough.

How can he be right, when the move got them further than ever before and without that move they likely don't go that far?


And you made the point that the league was shunning him because he was a "bad coach". No, that wasn't the case, he was indeed getting job offers from rebuilding teams who had already hired coaches. And he hasn't still got a job in *a few months* since his firing because there aren't any available for his profile as a veteran's coach. As simple as that.

Wrong, before teams hired guys like Shaw or whatever, the Grizz gave him permission to speak to those teams. They all elected to pass on him. He's still without a job.


Lastly, your argument that he is bad is based on his refusal to acknowledge the Gay trade.. thats all. Thats poor logic.

The larger body of his work of his transformation of the Grizzlies from pathetic losers to contenders - rejuvenation of Randolph, blossoming of Gasol & Conley, the strong defensive system, the "Grit & Grind" Fundamentals etc... had much to do with his coaching.. which you simply ignore, as behooves your stupid logic.

:lol That doesn't make any sense. He had great defensive pieces in Conley/Allen/Gasol - they had better be a good defensive team. Not only did his coaching stall the offense and defense, his stubborn antiquated mindset had him eating sour grapes after the trade as the team blossomed with Gay gone. He has an old mindset and isn't a very good basketball mind tbh.. thats why he has no job.

You don't really have any facts outside of his win% (which got better with the trade he hated). You make wild assumptions to fit your theories (teams are tanking and don't have room for his greatness :cry or Memphis are big meanies so they let him go :cry).

The fact is he got an opportunity to speak to teams and no one so far has knocked down his door. We will see how long it takes for him to get a HC job and how he does when he gets it. To date, I have the scoreboard it seems because he's not coaching because he's stubborn and not a strong enough coach to make front offices deal with his antiquated antics.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Also, I thought that Spurs fans of all people will be scrutinizing of the likes of Hollinger after the Jackie Butler effect.

[Spursfanfromafar]

How can he be right, when the move got them further than ever before and without that move they likely don't go that far?

Wrong, before teams hired guys like Shaw or whatever, the Grizz gave him permission to speak to those teams. They all elected to pass on him. He's still without a job.

Lol for 4 months so far. Are you that dumb? And Phil Jackson, George Karl and the Van Gundys are also without jobs too. By your logic, they are bad coaches. Lol!



:lol That doesn't make any sense. He had great defensive pieces in Conley/Allen/Gasol - they had better be a good defensive team. Not only did his coaching stall the offense and defense, his stubborn antiquated mindset had him eating sour grapes after the trade as the team blossomed with Gay gone. He has an old mindset and isn't a very good basketball mind tbh.. thats why he has no job.

You don't really have any facts outside of his win% (which got better with the trade he hated). You make wild assumptions to fit your theories (teams are tanking and don't have room for his greatness :cry or Memphis are big meanies so they let him go :cry).

The fact is he got an opportunity to speak to teams and no one so far has knocked down his door. We will see how long it takes for him to get a HC job and how he does when he gets it. To date, I have the scoreboard it seems because he's not coaching because he's stubborn and not a strong enough coach to make front offices deal with his antiquated antics.

So, Conley & Gasol learnt defense on their own and despite Hollins' coaching. How much more stupid can you get?

By the way, which are the only teams that these two guys played for? Memphis Grizzlies... the only coach? Lionel Hollins. Is it even entering your head?

[DPG21920]

The jury is not out on Hollinger. Hollinger has nothing to do with Hollins. The only reason Hollinger is mentioned is because his move showed how Hollins lack of coaching (playing Gay, running offense through him) held the team back from achieving their full potential.

It caused Hollins to throw a fit too. He cried about not having a shooter in the WCF while failing to acknowledge he wouldn't be there if they kept Gay. It was sour grapes and big reason no one has hired him.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The jury is not out on Hollinger. Hollinger has nothing to do with Hollins. The only reason Hollinger is mentioned is because his move showed how Hollins lack of coaching (playing Gay, running offense through him) held the team back from achieving their full potential.

It caused Hollins to throw a fit too. He cried about not having a shooter in the WCF while failing to acknowledge he wouldn't be there if they kept Gay. It was sour grapes and big reason no one has hired him.

Ha ha :) So a coach lamented a trade and so he isn't a good coach. All his record with converting a bad team into a good one and a contender at that, be damned. Take your logic pills, pal.

[DPG21920]

Lol for 4 months so far. Are you that dumb? And Phil Jackson, George Karl and the Van Gundys are also without jobs too. By your logic, they are bad coaches. Lol!

Strawman argument from someone getting frustrated for no reason. Phil Jackson doesn't want to coach. I've also read reports of Van Gundy's turning down potential HC jobs. Hollins hasn't turned down any HC jobs that I have seen - he hasn't been offered any and he's made it very clear he still wants to coach. I don't believe JVG wants to coach, nor Phil. So that argument makes little sense to me.




So, Conley & Gasol learnt defense on their own and despite Hollins' coaching. How much more stupid can you get?

By the way, which are the only teams that these two guys played for? Memphis Grizzlies... the only coach? Lionel Hollins. Is it even entering your head?

:lol What? What kind of logical jump is that from what I have said. Conley/Allen have always been very good defenders. Marc Gasol too. It's a quite talented defensive squad. You would have to really suck to make them poor defensively. Again, I didn't say Hollins hurt them necessarily - I said his poor coaching abilities and lack of creativity held them back from reaching their full potential which the Gay trade exposed. Yes, the Grizz won a lot of games with Hollins, but they could have done more (as evidenced by management forcing his hand) if he saw through Gay and what wins in the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

Ha ha :) So a coach lamented a trade and so he isn't a good coach. All his record with converting a bad team into a good one and a contender at that, be damned. Take your logic pills, pal.

:lol Just another strange strawman argument. I didn't say he was a bad coach because he lamented the trade. I said he lamented the trade after he saw the results, not due to his coaching, but because the trade forced his hand (no more Gay to use).

He can't get credit for turning them into a contender when he before the trade played un-optimal lineups and then after the trade complained about it while the team was performing better :lol

[DPG21920]

Well, the good thing is we will get a chance to see how this develops. We will see how long it takes for Hollins to get a HC job and how he does if he gets one. That's the beauty of this - we can see how it develops.

But I love the good logic of a great (or even good) coach not having a job because a) his team is dumb for letting him go & b) all other teams were tanking and couldn't use a good coach.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Yeah. we shall see..and we have already seen..

How the great defenders Conley and Allen have seen their defensive ratings drop heavily since Hollins left as a coach. Has to do with personnel, defensive system and coaching philosophy changes, perhaps?

Memphis Defensive rating in 2013-14: 107.4
Memphis Defensive rating in 2012-13: 100.3

A drop of 7 points because one player is injured? What does it say about the coaching change? And what more does it say about the hands that brought out the coaching change?

We shall see how it plays out in the longer run as well, as the Memphis tank from a contender to a bottom 5 team in the WC in the present.

[Chinook]

Yeah. we shall see..and we have already seen..

How the great defenders Conley and Allen have seen their defensive ratings drop heavily since Hollins left as a coach. Has to do with personnel, defensive system and coaching philosophy changes, perhaps?

Memphis Defensive rating in 2013-14: 107.4
Memphis Defensive rating in 2012-13: 100.3

A drop of 7 points because one player is injured? What does it say about the coaching change? And what more does it say about the hands that brought out the coaching change?

We shall see how it plays out in the longer run as well, as the Memphis tank from a contender to a bottom 5 team in the WC in the present.


To be fair, bigs have by far the biggest impact on DRtg. It's the opposite effect as the major boost Splitter's addition to the SL had last season.

Still, a good coach would be able to coach around that. Thibs manages to field a strong defense even when Noah is out. Joeger is not living up to his hype ao far.

[ElNono]

IMO, the writing was on the wall about Gay after 8. But that series also shown Hollins being a coach that could get a lot of it's players and fairly solid at game-planning. He had guys like Sam Young and Darrell Arthur playing at a level you've never seen them play since. That said, he was stubborn at times, and that's why I think he wouldn't work for every group of players. He was a great fit there, and that's why it's still not clear to me why they let him walk.

[SpursRock20]

Just would like to say once again that Minnesota is no worry for the Spurs even without Splitter. Diaw can handle him (Love) just fine.

[Spur Bank]

Advanced stats suffer from being stats, meaning they follow the basic assumption of being IID (Individual and Independently Distributed). They assume a 45-percent three-point shooter is 45-percent likely to make any given three. But that's not true. There are tons of variables that haven't been accounted for. Stats can only tell you what has already happened. They are NOT designed to predict the future. That's why running an organization using stats will fail if there are no old-school penople in the brain trust.

Great points on the "IID" thing.
IID is a problem on Internet message boards, but it's not a problem in NBA offices. There's zero chance any NBA-employed statistician is applying a blanket one-size-fits-all 3P% in his/her analysis.

That's not only not advanced, it's barely high school level stats. The point of having advanced stats is that they DON'T make boneheaded mistakes like the example you gave.

[Spur Bank]

Regarding Hollins, this seems like a straightforward situation. He was a good relationship and personality coach, and a not good matchup/X's and O's coach. I don't think anyone in this thread thinks otherwise... people are arguing two different things, it just comes down to what side you believe is more important.

Edit: you can quibble about whether Hollins was really a good people person or not, but eh, whatever.

[ace3g]

Jabari Young @jabari_young
(https://twitter.com/jabari_young)So I can confirm there was a scout from the #Knicks (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Knicks) at the #Spurs (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Spurs) game last night...he may have been scouting Minny, but if not....


Jabari Young @jabari_young
(https://twitter.com/jabari_young)#Knicks (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Knicks) play Minny on 2/12...kinda early to be scouting them, in San Antonio...just saying


--

Moments later he deletes those tweets. and retweets:

Jabari Young @jabari_young
(https://twitter.com/jabari_young)So I can confirm there was a scout from the #Knicks (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Knicks) at the #Spurs (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Spurs) game last night...might of been there to scout Minny tho...or not...

[Dex]

Jabari Young @jabari_young
might of


ಠ_ಠ

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Bring on J.R. Smith for Danny Green and filler.

[benefactor]

You all do know that it's been 8 years since the Barry/Smith thing almost happened, right? And what exactly has Smith done to prove he's any less of a headcase?

Not only is he still a headcase...he's a well paid headcase that will be on the books until the end of 2015/16. He also has a 15% trade kicker.

Even if no picks were included, the Spurs would not trade Green or even just expirings for Smith. No one is touching a player like him on that contract until next seasons deadline at the earliest.

[exstatic]

Bring on J.R. Smith for Danny Green and filler.

We'd lose a series to GS, then. Green was the only thing that even slowed Curry somewhat. Playing against Parker/Manu/Beli/JR, he'd go SHIT WILD.

[T Park]

People seem to forget how well defensively Green is against the Oklahoma City's and the Golden States

[ElNono]

You all do know that it's been 8 years since the Barry/Smith thing almost happened, right? And what exactly has Smith done to prove he's any less of a headcase?

Not only is he still a headcase...he's a well paid headcase that will be on the books until the end of 2015/16. He also has a 15% trade kicker.

Even if no picks were included, the Spurs would not trade Green or even just expirings for Smith. No one is touching a player like him on that contract until next seasons deadline at the earliest.

Maybe we're just after Bargnani...

:stirpot:

[timtonymanu]

When opposing PGs are torching us, we won't have Danny Green to count on. And Leonard will have to do it instead leaving the 3 guy open.

[timtonymanu]

Looking at the Knicks roster, the only player I want is Tyson Chandler but he's out of the question.

I definitely don't want that headcase Smith. He's been on meltdown mode lately. The Spurs don't need that distraction in their locker room again.

[monkeypunk]

If the NY package included Shumpert with Smith, would you guys bite?

Otherwise, I'd say hell no to Smith...

[exstatic]

I would seriously LOL if the NYK exiled JR Smith to Minny.

[Sean Cagney]

If the NY package included Shumpert with Smith, would you guys bite?

Otherwise, I'd say hell no to Smith...
Pop would turn SHUMP into a player! I know a Knicks fan at work and he said that would be a match made in heaven and he doesn't want it because Shumpert can play some D and shoot the ball from outside. That would be a very good guy to pick up at his age.

[r0drig0lac]

Bonner for Lebron straight up. Otherwise, this team isn't making any (meaningful) trades. Same story, different year.
lol, this

[elemento]

I just can't believe some Spurs fans really wanna trade Danny Green for Jr Smith :lol

[look_at_g_shred]

I just can't believe some Spurs fans really wanna trade Danny Green for Jr Smith :lol

[jermaine]

Smith just isn't motivated! People forget Smith was guarding opposing teams best man also when the Knicks was winning an Shumpurt was hurt! Smith by creating his own shot would open oup sooooo much. All that standing an waitibg for Tony to kick it to you that grewn does. He sucks! Can dribble to save his life or creates a shot. Green aint even near a motivated Smith's level. How quickly some of you dump fucks forget!

[Chinook]

IID is a problem on Internet message boards, but it's not a problem in NBA offices. There's zero chance any NBA-employed statistician is applying a blanket one-size-fits-all 3P% in his/her analysis.

That's not only not advanced, it's barely high school level stats. The point of having advanced stats is that they DON'T make boneheaded mistakes like the example you gave.

That is the entire premise of moneyball. It assumes that players aren't bigger than they're stats. PER and DRtg are advanced, but that doesn't protect them from IID at all. PER is supposed to be a controlled stat that can be used across teams, but it's entirely based on how good a player's team is. DRtg for individuals is just team DRtg plus steals, rebounds and blocks. It says nothing about how well an individual guards his man.

[Proxy]

People seem to forget how well defensively Green is against the Oklahoma City's and the Golden States

The Miamis too

[weebo]

JR Smith :lol. You guys can't be serious.

[smaka]

I can't think of a single rational reason why the Spurs would want this overrated chucker JR Smith. And even Shumpert. He is a typical New-York-overrated type of a player. Just remember Steve Novak, Landy Fields.. Where are they at now, huh?

[RD2191]

JR Smith is comedic gold, wouldn't mind watching Pop go WWE on his ass with a chair to the back.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

JR Smith would not improve the Spurs. I didn't like the idea a couple of years ago when the Spurs were considering him, and I don't like it now.

If SJax can work his way out of favor with Pop in such short order, imagine what it will be like for JR Smith. That will be a lot to spend just to make sure one of the seats doesn't blow away during the ballgames.

[ajballer4]

The only player IMO it could possibly be would be Shump especially since he killed us a couple weeks ago