Is this the worst post in the history of ST?

[Sheriff Hoyt]

No way I ever put shaq ahead of Drob. shaq was a lazy one-way player his whole career. He got away with murder offensivley didn't play any D, not to mention a liabilty late in games cause of his FT shooting. HE single handedly ruined the 2008 phoenix suns. Wasn't that great of a rebounder considering his size advantage over everyone. The real shame is, because of the back injury we may have never seen him at his best.
Horse

[Dex]

Shaq did single-handedly win three titles...and had help from Wade for a fourth.

[Venti Quattro]

:lol Horse
:lol Dunkin Donuts
:lol massage therapist
:lol honey glaze

[Koolaid_Man]

Shaq did single-handedly win three titles...and had help from Wade for a fourth.

5TRyS9RjDO4

[Leetonidas]

ST's classics:

Manu > Dirk
Diaw > Lee
Robinson > O'Neal

[DMC]

Nothing unusual. Homer forums have homers. Mike Ditka etc...

[Killakobe81]

Though I agree Shaq>Admiral ...
For those that don't factor rings and love efficiency ratings a case for Prime David can be made over shaq.
Personally i saw both play and realize how silly that argument is ...
But this is part of the problem i have with numbers people "juke the stats" all the time.

David definitely is one of the greatest "athletes" ever at center ...

And if you did see him play in his prime is actually the closest thing to Lebron from a size/speed ratio.

[Killakobe81]

But he didnt have the drive or heart of Tim duncan and needed Pop/Timmy to show him the way.

But shaq doesnt win titles without Phil, riles, kobe or Wade ....

[Sheriff Hoyt]

But he didnt have the drive or heart of Tim duncan and needed Pop/Timmy to show him the way.

But shaq doesnt win titles without Phil, riles, kobe or Wade ....
Shaq was a Nick Anderson missed free throw away.

[ambchang]

But he didnt have the drive or heart of Tim duncan and needed Pop/Timmy to show him the way.

But shaq doesnt win titles without Phil, riles, kobe or Wade ....

He doesn't have the postup game, and that was the problem. Drive or heart doesn't help get you a backcourt who can nail open shots for you when you are tripled-team down low.

Beating the Spurs was easy in the 90s, crowd the paint and let the shooters shoot, because you can be sure as hell Avery Johnson isn't going to nail a three pointer at all (14.5% career 3P shooting %, 1 career playoff three pointer made out of 16 tries. The better of the two guards, Vinny Del Negro, averaged 0.3 3PM for his entire career, and 0.6 in the playoffs (that's when he is wide opened).

Tell me, which all-time great big man won a title without any significant backcourt help?

Russell had Cousy and Sam Jones
Kareem had Oscar and Magic
Wilt had West, Greer and Walker
Hakeem had a revolutionary 3 pt shooting team around him (though the individual names sucked)
Shaq had Kobe and Wade
Even a 03 Duncan had Stephen Jackson and Kerr.

Robinson had, repeat this after me, Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro. You know the first year where he had Rod Strickland as his PG? He did fine in the playoffs. His playoff woes started the second his starting backcourt was Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro.

You know what happens when an entire defense collapse on your in the playoffs? You struggle. The Spurs held Shaq to 21.5ppg and shot 45% from the field, but lost in 5 games because your boy Kobe picked up the slack and scored 26.2 ppg on 45% shooting (high for Kobe, low for Shaq).

You know what Robinson's SG was doing when the opposition is hacking him to bits in the paint? Shooting 3 for 9 for 7 points in 31 minutes (kind of ironic for a SHOOTING guard) on his way to averaging 6 points in a loss to the Suns, or lighting it up by averaging 7.3 points in a sweep at the hand of the Jazz.

And what is the little general doing? He was somehow shooting 39% from the field in the two wins vs. the Suns, while 60% from the field in losses. You know what that means, it means that a) He was a non-factor, and b) the Suns are leaving him wide open, daring him to shoot in order to win, you close in on him and Robinson scores 36 points on you.

[Arcadian]

He did have Chuck Person and Sean Elliott at SF...

...but still, :lol Avery Johnson and Vinny del Negro.

[Killakobe81]

Shaq was a Nick Anderson missed free throw away.

No way all that does is avoid a sweep. Rox were better as was Hakeem.

[Killakobe81]

He doesn't have the postup game, and that was the problem. Drive or heart doesn't help get you a backcourt who can nail open shots for you when you are tripled-team down low.

Beating the Spurs was easy in the 90s, crowd the paint and let the shooters shoot, because you can be sure as hell Avery Johnson isn't going to nail a three pointer at all (14.5% career 3P shooting %, 1 career playoff three pointer made out of 16 tries. The better of the two guards, Vinny Del Negro, averaged 0.3 3PM for his entire career, and 0.6 in the playoffs (that's when he is wide opened).

Tell me, which all-time great big man won a title without any significant backcourt help?

Russell had Cousy and Sam Jones
Kareem had Oscar and Magic
Wilt had West, Greer and Walker
Hakeem had a revolutionary 3 pt shooting team around him (though the individual names sucked)
Shaq had Kobe and Wade
Even a 03 Duncan had Stephen Jackson and Kerr.

Robinson had, repeat this after me, Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro. You know the first year where he had Rod Strickland as his PG? He did fine in the playoffs. His playoff woes started the second his starting backcourt was Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro.

You know what happens when an entire defense collapse on your in the playoffs? You struggle. The Spurs held Shaq to 21.5ppg and shot 45% from the field, but lost in 5 games because your boy Kobe picked up the slack and scored 26.2 ppg on 45% shooting (high for Kobe, low for Shaq).

You know what Robinson's SG was doing when the opposition is hacking him to bits in the paint? Shooting 3 for 9 for 7 points in 31 minutes (kind of ironic for a SHOOTING guard) on his way to averaging 6 points in a loss to the Suns, or lighting it up by averaging 7.3 points in a sweep at the hand of the Jazz.

And what is the little general doing? He was somehow shooting 39% from the field in the two wins vs. the Suns, while 60% from the field in losses. You know what that means, it means that a) He was a non-factor, and b) the Suns are leaving him wide open, daring him to shoot in order to win, you close in on him and Robinson scores 36 points on you.

doesnt change the fact that when Duncan came they focused the offense on Tim who had a much better post game as you noted.
Like I said upstairs people forget how graceful, fast and strong David was pre back injury. And It wasnt until these recent threads and I thought about how much he reminds me of Lebron ... as far as the ability to go end with speed and power. Sure he is not as quick as Lebron but when you look at the speed/physique ...Robinson is the only thing close to Lebron and he is a a real center ...which tells you how amazing James is.

[Katherine Robinson]

Horse appears to have an IQ equal to the Rings Drob has as well.

[The Reckoning]

lol sayng he was bad because of a year he was on the verge of retirement

[ambchang]

doesnt change the fact that when Duncan came they focused the offense on Tim who had a much better post game as you noted.
Like I said upstairs people forget how graceful, fast and strong David was pre back injury. And It wasnt until these recent threads and I thought about how much he reminds me of Lebron ... as far as the ability to go end with speed and power. Sure he is not as quick as Lebron but when you look at the speed/physique ...Robinson is the only thing close to Lebron and he is a a real center ...which tells you how amazing James is.

Running the offense through Duncan was definitely the right move, Duncan had a better ability to draw the offense in because of his post game and can kick the ball outside relatively well. DRob, with his face to the basket game, doesn't get the ball as deep (he likes it about 15 feet from the basket, vs. 10 feet for Duncan), which means that the defense can decide to double or triple a split second after he gets the ball, and also they have a quicker time to recover to the shooters if they decide to double/triple.

That said, Robinson is one of those players who is very unique in his skills, and require a very unique team to build around. Duncan was the much easier guy to build around (and also an aspect where I think he was underrated), but Robinson is like Dirk in that you require a specific group of guys around him. Say a rebounder who can spread the floor a little (say an Horry time), quick three point shooters who can fire quickly from kickouts, and a point guard who can run pick and rolls. Avery Johnson can run it fine, but his lack of shooting means that the Spurs have one less option in the pnr as teams will always go under the screen and cut off his penetration.

As for the comparisons to Lebron, I think Robinson is just as quick as Lebron, he just doesn't have the ball handling or the court vision. Robinson really wasn't a center, he was more of a SF in a C's body.

[Thebesteva]

David Robinson is a legend but no way hes even close to Shaq...not even close

[DMC]

When even your fans don't rate you in the top 10 all time, you're probably not.

[Killakobe81]

Running the offense through Duncan was definitely the right move, Duncan had a better ability to draw the offense in because of his post game and can kick the ball outside relatively well. DRob, with his face to the basket game, doesn't get the ball as deep (he likes it about 15 feet from the basket, vs. 10 feet for Duncan), which means that the defense can decide to double or triple a split second after he gets the ball, and also they have a quicker time to recover to the shooters if they decide to double/triple.

That said, Robinson is one of those players who is very unique in his skills, and require a very unique team to build around. Duncan was the much easier guy to build around (and also an aspect where I think he was underrated), but Robinson is like Dirk in that you require a specific group of guys around him. Say a rebounder who can spread the floor a little (say an Horry time), quick three point shooters who can fire quickly from kickouts, and a point guard who can run pick and rolls. Avery Johnson can run it fine, but his lack of shooting means that the Spurs have one less option in the pnr as teams will always go under the screen and cut off his penetration.

As for the comparisons to Lebron, I think Robinson is just as quick as Lebron, he just doesn't have the ball handling or the court vision. Robinson really wasn't a center, he was more of a SF in a C's body.

Agree to disagree on him being "as quick"
But like I said earlier if you watch the 1992 Dream Team only MJ is more impressive "physically" Pippen is a all-time SF and to me David was even more impressive as a "quick twitch" athlete.
Lebron however is in a slightly higher atmosphere. i do agree that Dr suffered from needing a special set of team-mates around him. For example i think if David had a prime Pau who to me iw not close to a Prime timmy but that might of been enough to help Him ring or get closer that and better guard play. I dont think Timmy was the only one who could help him ring ... but he needed someone that could provide the things he lacked.

Pop provided the leadership and Timmy the post game for success. but again if he stays healthy maybe the convo is different.

[benefactor]

Nah...this isn't the worst. This year the upstairs takes have just been especially bad. Hell...Baam has posted worse ones than this in the trade thread.

[ambchang]

Agree to disagree on him being "as quick"
But like I said earlier if you watch the 1992 Dream Team only MJ is more impressive "physically" Pippen is a all-time SF and to me David was even more impressive as a "quick twitch" athlete.
Lebron however is in a slightly higher atmosphere. i do agree that Dr suffered from needing a special set of team-mates around him. For example i think if David had a prime Pau who to me iw not close to a Prime timmy but that might of been enough to help Him ring or get closer that and better guard play. I dont think Timmy was the only one who could help him ring ... but he needed someone that could provide the things he lacked.

Pop provided the leadership and Timmy the post game for success. but again if he stays healthy maybe the convo is different.

Prime DR50 with prime MVPau with a decent PG would have been enough for at least one ring.

Rookie DR50 with past prime Cummings and startup Strickland gave the blazers enough trouble.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Prime DR50 with prime MVPau with a decent PG would have been enough for at least one ring.

Rookie DR50 with past prime Cummings and startup Strickland gave the blazers enough trouble.

replace ewing with drob on that knicks team, they would have at least 1 ring....

the spurs team under drob had to much bullshit 1 dimenional players only good at one aspect of basketball skillset and nothing else...

[Killakobe81]

Prime DR50 with prime MVPau with a decent PG would have been enough for at least one ring.

Rookie DR50 with past prime Cummings and startup Strickland gave the blazers enough trouble.

I agree. Especially with Pop ...

[dallasmaverickslose]

The worst post(s) in the history of ST is anything koolaid_man or Arnold Toht posts.

[benefactor]

JR Smith has played some elite defense is the past, and on the other end he's just as good as Beli, probably even better off the dribble...

He'd be instantly the second best two way player on the team after Tim...

The kicker is that he has to be healthy again, I have no idea how serious his knee problem is or not... But yeah for such an upgrade I'd trade Beli and others...

Imagine going small with Green JR Smith Kawhi playing together, that's some serious perimeter D and some incredible spacing...

And you can get that for chump change right now... His contract is not even that big for a reigning 6MOTY and pretty short too...

I can't think of a move with a bigger potential reward if it goes well, the risk is quite high due to health concerns but I'd do it in an heartbeat...
:lol

[AchillesHeel]

The worst post(s) in the history of ST is anything koolaid_man or Arnold Toht posts.

THIS.

[Deuce Bigalow]

IDK man yesterday I heard that Kobe wasn't a franchise player.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The worst post(s) in the history of ST is anything koolaid_man or Arnold Toht posts.
No

Basically when a spurfan talks about Kobe, those are the worst posts tbh.

[ambchang]

IDK man yesterday I heard that Kobe wasn't a franchise player.

Yeah, that's dumb. Kobe alone is good enough for a 9th or 10th seed in the West. Add in the best frontcourt in the league and you get multiple championships.

Definitely a franchise player.

[jeebus]

This is a pretty good post from upstairs.


"Gotta loves Ayres. He's a jump shot away from being a starter. Whenever he and Chip figure that out, the Spurs rotation gets that much stronger."


It's like visiting a school for retarded children when I go up there.

[Spur-Addict]

:lmao

Holy shit benefactor, there's no way that's an actual post from Baam