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Koolaid_Man
01-13-2014, 11:08 AM
:lmao First they say he's better than Kobe....yada yada...then they say he's better than Shaq....:lol I mean these bozo's these circus clowns, these ice cream truck drivers, these freakazoids want the whole bucket of chicken, seasoned fries, and buttery rolls all to themselves...:lmao


I say he's clearly not a better player than Kobe....I'm iffy on Shaq because of his work ethic..I remember one time during a game with the Spurs Kobe got tired of Shaq letting Duncan get away with that goofy looking swim move...so he flat told Shaq: "Slam his fucking ass in the paint"...it's moments like that that cause me to be iffy on Shaq...his little brother telling him how to be a man...but Kobe owns Duncan and Robinson no doubt about it and don't make me pull up the vids...head to head in the play-offs and when competing for titles Kobe owns that cuck and the preacher...

Kobe blocks Duncan 3 times in the same dam game:

mrfElBT_BOY


Then he's dunking all over these bitach ass nuggas :lol

WQxgHgRh95Y

Sheriff Hoyt
01-13-2014, 11:10 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wUz305iV82k/UWG1YWyygqI/AAAAAAAAB9U/rZOyRL4DdWA/s1600/photo%2B1.JPG

Juggity
01-13-2014, 11:44 AM
Hmm. Not quite convinced yet, Kool. Could you find 15-20 more youtube videos to support your thesis?

ChumpDumper
01-13-2014, 11:57 AM
Why is kool posting about basketball?

Leetonidas
01-13-2014, 12:01 PM
tbh it seems that real basketball fans disagree with you about Kobe:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1123731

Shaq and Duncan are a tossup imo

Leetonidas
01-13-2014, 12:05 PM
And considering the list was made in 2011, LeBron has surpassed Kobe at this point tbh and dropped him even lower :lol

Leetonidas
01-13-2014, 12:12 PM
You can even read through the thread where they pick Duncan for 8 over TOSB Kobe :lol there's actually a lot of reasoning that would be foreign to you because it's not just a bunch of faggots circle jerking to ring count

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1125459

Koolaid_Man
01-13-2014, 12:37 PM
You can even read through the thread where they pick Duncan for 8 over TOSB Kobe :lol there's actually a lot of reasoning that would be foreign to you because it's not just a bunch of faggots circle jerking to ring count

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1125459


lol @ realgm fans :lmao and :lmao@being butthurt over the ring count:

Kobe 5

Butthurt Fans 0

Leetonidas
01-13-2014, 12:40 PM
Mad that a comprehensive poll on the biggest NBA forum on the internet disagrees with your retarded, minority-held opinion :lol

:lmao at this poll being done in 2011 after Kobe rang twice and he's still below Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem

DMC
01-13-2014, 12:45 PM
How many times are you folks going to run off and find data that contradicts the OP instead of realizing the guy is Texan, living in Houston, a Spurs fan disguised as a Lakers fan and his daddeh got him a job?

Don't feed the monkeys.

Koolaid_Man
01-13-2014, 12:48 PM
How many times are you folks going to run off and find data that contradicts the OP instead of realizing the guy is Texan, living in Houston, a Spurs fan disguised as a Lakers fan and his daddeh got him a job?

Don't feed the monkeys.

:lol I got a surprise fo ya soon big baby!!! How's your search at Halliburton going :lmao

Leetonidas
01-13-2014, 12:55 PM
How many times are you folks going to run off and find data that contradicts the OP instead of realizing the guy is Texan, living in Houston, a Spurs fan disguised as a Lakers fan and his daddeh got him a job?

Don't feed the monkeys.

Kool's like herpes. He doesn't go away. If you ignore him, he'll flare up and post hundreds of threads in the NBA forum/The Club desperate for attention and eventually someone will reply to him because he simply spams too much not to be replied to and he is sustained and the process repeats. tbh we all know he is a pathetic loser, not a single person (except maybe the retarded n!ggers in the club) believe a single bullshit story of his, and it's fairly obvious his entire online persona is a sad facade created to vicariously live through the fabrication of a hip black man

Just accept it tbh. He will never leave. He needs ST like a fly needs to eat dog shit

DMC
01-13-2014, 12:58 PM
Kool's like herpes. He doesn't go away. If you ignore him, he'll flare up and post hundreds of threads in the NBA forum/The Club desperate for attention and eventually someone will reply to him because he simply spams too much not to be replied to and he is sustained and the process repeats. tbh we all know he is a pathetic loser, not a single person (except maybe the retarded n!ggers in the club) believe a single bullshit story of his, and it's fairly obvious his entire online persona is a sad facade created to vicariously live through the constructed persona of hip black man.

Just accept it tbh. He will never leave. He needs ST like a fly needs to eat dog shit

It doesn't matter how much shame you heap upon him. He's not going to stop posting because he has nothing else to do and it doesn't come back on him personally since he's a troll anyhow. The best way to shut him down is to ignore him. That's a proven method for all trolls.

Koolaid_Man
01-13-2014, 12:58 PM
Kool's like herpes. He doesn't go away. If you ignore him, he'll flare up and post hundreds of threads in the NBA forum/The Club desperate for attention and eventually someone will reply to him because he simply spams too much not to be replied to and he is sustained and the process repeats. tbh we all know he is a pathetic loser, not a single person (except maybe the retarded n!ggers in the club) believe a single bullshit story of his, and it's fairly obvious his entire online persona is a sad facade created to vicariously live through the fabrication of a hip black man

Just accept it tbh. He will never leave. He needs ST like a fly needs to eat dog shit

:lmao I resent that

Koolaid_Man
01-13-2014, 12:59 PM
It doesn't matter how much shame you heap upon him. He's not going to stop posting because he has nothing else to do and it doesn't come back on him personally since he's a troll anyhow. The best way to shut him down is to ignore him. That's a proven method for all trolls.

I want you DMC....How much? :lol

Double-Up
01-13-2014, 01:13 PM
http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/04/01/040113-ervin-johnson-launch-v3-1.jpg

http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/EJ-Johnson-at-Bootsy-Bellows.jpg



http://hiphollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ej.jpg

http://wfld.images.worldnow.com/images/21885482_SA.jpg

wtgspurs
01-13-2014, 01:30 PM
Detroit Popped Lakers' Cherry in 2004, nuff said

Arcadian
01-13-2014, 02:00 PM
:lmao With your bitchass team sitting at 14-23, you have nothing better to do than erroneously re-assess history in a favorable light. Bitch, please.

N0 LyF3 ScRuB
01-13-2014, 02:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR6AgYWdoBQ

Duncan > Shaq

Killakobe81
01-13-2014, 02:36 PM
Cant give it to Shaq career-wise. If you want to give Shaq the nod from Duncan's rookie year until 2004 ...I agree with that he was more dominant than ANYONE maybe even MJ or Lebron.
Absolutely. But I would take Duncan every other year in which they both are still playing. duncan is still a viable option TODAY for the spurs while Shaq didn't do anything after he was dumped by the Heat.

Choosing Shaq over Duncan is the same as picking Lebron over Kobe. Neuither statement is wrong but from a skills standpoint i prefer Timmy and Kobe.
My son is starting to hoop I will show him Tim's footwork if he is a big and MJ/Kobe's if he is a guard ...
I wont show him any of the two most dominant players I have ever seen from a foot work perspective.
God blessed Shaq/Lebron with more gifts than anyone else. Lebron has almost maxed his out ...Shaq left rings, points, blocks and boards on the table with lack of work ethic and poor Ft shooting.

ambchang
01-13-2014, 03:12 PM
Cant give it to Shaq career-wise. If you want to give Shaq the nod from Duncan's rookie year until 2004 ...I agree with that he was more dominant than ANYONE maybe even MJ or Lebron.
Absolutely. But I would take Duncan every other year in which they both are still playing. duncan is still a viable option TODAY for the spurs while Shaq didn't do anything after he was dumped by the Heat.

Choosing Shaq over Duncan is the same as picking Lebron over Kobe. Neuither statement is wrong but from a skills standpoint i prefer Timmy and Kobe.
My son is starting to hoop I will show him Tim's footwork if he is a big and MJ/Kobe's if he is a guard ...
I wont show him any of the two most dominant players I have ever seen from a foot work perspective.
God blessed Shaq/Lebron with more gifts than anyone else. Lebron has almost maxed his out ...Shaq left rings, points, blocks and boards on the table with lack of work ethic and poor Ft shooting.

Duncan was an easier guy to build around, Shaq was the more dominant. Toss up.

Lebron is an easier guy to build around and the more dominant. No toss up.

Killakobe81
01-13-2014, 05:32 PM
Duncan was an easier guy to build around, Shaq was the more dominant. Toss up.

Lebron is an easier guy to build around and the more dominant. No toss up.

I said skill wise you are talking something entirely different. And I agree with you Lebron is more dominant and easier to build around. But that has nothing to with my argument.

DMC
01-13-2014, 07:20 PM
It always goes to a Kobe discussion, but Kobe had an assassin's mentality, not afraid of the moment... actually relished it win or lose. Lebron, you can see he's afraid to fail. He's the baby in the monster's body, not understanding completely how to use it and that he cannot possibly fail by attacking. He's gotten better, quite the animal now. The difference between the two is that Kobe developed his mindset when he wasn't the focal point on the team, when he could hurl wide open jumpers non stop and when he could attack the rim because he had Shaq to dump it to. He was gifted, no doubt, and athletic as hell early on however he developed his swagger through a false sense of self importance, not acknowledging to himself that Shaq was far and away the reason the team was unstoppable, and Lebron has him beat because Lebron has always been the focal point, and imo two rings as the focal point is better than 5 rings as a role player. I'd not say Kobe was the focal point in the recent rings, given they had to have another franchise's best player to get there, and given that the previous year they missed the playoffs (or might as well have). If Lebron had prime Shaq, we might as well lock the doors on the NBA.

313
01-14-2014, 12:50 AM
It always goes to a Kobe discussion, but Kobe had an assassin's mentality, not afraid of the moment... actually relished it win or lose. Lebron, you can see he's afraid to fail. He's the baby in the monster's body, not understanding completely how to use it and that he cannot possibly fail by attacking. He's gotten better, quite the animal now. The difference between the two is that Kobe developed his mindset when he wasn't the focal point on the team, when he could hurl wide open jumpers non stop and when he could attack the rim because he had Shaq to dump it to. He was gifted, no doubt, and athletic as hell early on however he developed his swagger through a false sense of self importance, not acknowledging to himself that Shaq was far and away the reason the team was unstoppable, and Lebron has him beat because Lebron has always been the focal point, and imo two rings as the focal point is better than 5 rings as a role player. I'd not say Kobe was the focal point in the recent rings, given they had to have another franchise's best player to get there, and given that the previous year they missed the playoffs (or might as well have). If Lebron had prime Shaq, we might as well lock the doors on the NBA.
Prime Shaq in Cleveland with bron? geez that would have been nasty.

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 03:28 AM
tbh it seems that real basketball fans disagree with you about Kobe:


http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1123731


Shaq and Duncan are a tossup imo

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history
http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/basketball/top-10-nba-players-of-all-time.html
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2009-09-24/sporting-news-nba-athlete-decade-kobe-bryant-sg-lakershttp://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-091119-20/weekend-dime-picking-decade-best
http://dimemag.com/2012/09/10-best-nba-players-since-2000/10/
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/12/decades-top-10-players/
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2009-12-29-to-the-point-player-decade_N.htm
http://www.complex.com/sports/2012/05/the-20-best-nba-players-of-the-2000s/2000s-1
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/12/21/morning.tip/index.html
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/_/id/4018/nba-highlights-decade#top
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?657184-PSD-s-Official-1-NBA-player-of-the-00-10-decade/page6

TDMVPDPOY
01-14-2014, 03:30 AM
for a guy with so much potential to be the GOAT, he didnt live up to it during the 90s when most of the great centers were declining...yet shaq only makes 1 finals appearance in the 90s is lame for me...

spurraider21
01-14-2014, 03:40 AM
i actually like Deuce Bigalow, he presents a challenge. most lakerfans on this forum can be easily curbstomped in arguments, but he actually holds his own

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 04:01 AM
I'm just searching top 10 lists, here are some

http://www.sportscity.com/whos-the-best-of-all-time-the-top-10-players-in-nba-history/2013/04/05/
http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2013/12/top-ten-greatest-nba-players?page=5
Weird list but Kobe's still ahead lol http://m.voices.yahoo.com/counting-down-10-greatest-nba-players-ever-12161861.html
http://m.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time
Found one with Duncan over Kobe! http://www.basesandbaskets.com/2012/12/greatest-nba-players-of-all-time.html?m=1
http://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-best-nba-players-of-all-time/
Top 50 list http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2013/03/top-50-nba-players-of-all-time/#45

TDMVPDPOY
01-14-2014, 04:13 AM
dunno how shaq or kobe can be above duncan...

kobe is a fkn coatrider for all 5 of his, how u comparing a coatrider to a franchise player? u should be comparing him to the likes of pippen, horry, kerr, parker, wade

as fror shaq only he has a case, but this clown has so much potential to win more rings, but he fell off quicker for some odd reason

hence if you look at the competition shaq won/loss against is the same wankers duncan beated in the finals..the only exception is the piston 03/04 team that duncan beated the following year

lakers 03/04 blow up is like the spurs 12/13 blowup, a fkn coatrider fcking it up cause he thought he had fmvp in his hands while someone else was actually having a better series, rather throw the series then allow someone else get the credit

spurs fell off the face of the planet after 07 when they gave the keys to a coatrider and never regain that winning form

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 04:30 AM
Kobe has like every Laker record but isnt a franchise player? Spurfan gonna retard

TDMVPDPOY
01-14-2014, 04:41 AM
Kobe has like every Laker record but isnt a franchise player? Spurfan gonna retard

the records he broke for those current season didnt equate to shit

remember the +80 +60 pt games against the raptors or mavs, didnt equate to shit
how about that year he went 10 straight games with over 40pts, didnt equate to shit
missing the playoffs in ur prime
building up false hope to fans up 3-1 on the suns to go lay a shit in the next 3 games

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 04:43 AM
the records he broke for those current season didnt equate to shit

remember the +80 +60 pt games against the raptors or mavs, didnt equate to shit
how about that year he went 10 straight games with over 40pts, didnt equate to shit
missing the playoffs in ur prime
building up false hope to fans up 3-1 on the suns to go lay a shit in the next 3 games
They equated to wins

TDMVPDPOY
01-14-2014, 04:47 AM
They equated to wins

damn i thought we talkin about championships or deep playoff runs here....

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 04:55 AM
81 pt game = win
62 in 3 = win
9 straight 40pt games = 7-2 record
4 straight 50pt games = 4-0 record
Lakers are 5-0 in Kobe's 60 pt games

REGULAR SEASON

When Kobe scores 30+ points
274-145
.654 W-L%

When Kobe scores 40+ points
81-39
.675 W-L%

When Kobe scores 50+ points
17-7
.708 W-L%

PLAYOFFS

When Kobe scores 30+ points
57-31
.648 W-L%

When Kobe scores 40+ points
10-3
.769 W-L%

When Kobe scores 50+ points
0-1
.000 W-L%

FINALS

When Kobe scores 30+ points
9-4
.692 W-L%

When Kobe scores 40+ points
1-0
1.000 W-L%

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 04:56 AM
damn i thought we talkin about championships or deep playoff runs here....
Kobe has 7 Finals runs and 5 championship winning runs, which ones do you want to talk about?

TDMVPDPOY
01-14-2014, 05:00 AM
Kobe has 7 Finals runs and 5 championship winning runs, which ones do you want to talk about?

im talkin about those years he broke records, what did it equate to? = rings?

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 05:03 AM
im talkin about those years he broke records, what did it equate to? = rings?
Scoring the most points in franchise history is a career length of time not just a couple years but all years combined.

ambchang
01-14-2014, 06:45 AM
I said skill wise you are talking something entirely different. And I agree with you Lebron is more dominant and easier to build around. But that has nothing to with my argument.

Skills without results mean nothing. If a player A is more skilled than player B, but playerB is more dominant and easier to build around, nobody will pick player A as the better player.

Example: divac vs shaq.

UNCLE-DREW
01-14-2014, 08:39 AM
Kobe has 7 Finals runs and 5 championship winning runs, which ones do you want to talk about?

How many of those 7 times he was the numero uno :lol
Name 14 of the worst players in the nba, Match them with a prime Lebron. Then ask yourself the question if he would be able to miss a playoff seed :lol

The only time Kobe can be ranked above Duncan is if you count his records and rings (same as u can rank Horry/Fisher types above Duncan)
as a basketball player he doesn't even come close to one of the all time greats and should be matched up with the likes of Wade.

ps. Shaq > Duncan - reason is above me

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 12:04 PM
How many of those 7 times he was the numero uno :lol
Name 14 of the worst players in the nba, Match them with a prime Lebron. Then ask yourself the question if he would be able to miss a playoff seed :lol

The only time Kobe can be ranked above Duncan is if you count his records and rings (same as u can rank Horry/Fisher types above Duncan)
as a basketball player he doesn't even come close to one of the all time greats and should be matched up with the likes of Wade.

ps. Shaq > Duncan - reason is above me
Kobe was the Lakers' leading scorer and assist man in the Western Conference playoffs (three playoff series to get to the Finals) in 01, 02, 04, 08, 09, 10.

To get to the 01 Finals Kobe averaged 33/7/7 on 51FG/57TS against San Antonio in the 01 WCF

Do I have to go over this again?

Wilt missed the playoffs in '63, his team went 31-49 with him playing all 80 games. In 1965, Wilt's team went 10-28 but he was traded to the Sixers.

Oscar missed the playoffs in '61 (rookie yr), 68, '69, and '70.

Kareem missed back to back playoffs in the '70s with LA.

Hakeem missed the playoffs in '92, although he did miss 12 games and in those 12 games his team collapsed.

Lebron in 04-05 averaged 27-7-7 on 55%TS but his team missed the playoffs.

RsxPiimp
01-14-2014, 12:12 PM
Deuce going ham :lol

Deuce Bigalow
01-14-2014, 12:17 PM
Oscar in '68 led the league in scoring, assists/gm, and ft% but his team missed the playoffs...damn poor Oscar

DMC
01-14-2014, 04:05 PM
Kobe in his prime was about 80% of what Lebron is currently, not counting Lebron's willingness to pass and ability to do so, and not counting Kobe's "I'm just like Mike" facial expressions when the bulk of the defense was used on Shaq or Pau.

ambchang
01-14-2014, 05:50 PM
Kobe was the Lakers' leading scorer and assist man in the Western Conference playoffs (three playoff series to get to the Finals) in 01, 02, 04, 08, 09, 10.

LOL, equating being scoring to being Number 1. In other news, McHale was the Numero Uno in 88 because he outscored Bird in the playoffs! No, wait, I have to check whether McHale only led in 3 of the 4 series instead, because Kobe sure as hell wasn't leading the Lakers in scoring in the entire playoffs for 02 or 03.



To get to the 01 Finals Kobe averaged 33/7/7 on 51FG/57TS against San Antonio in the 01 WCF

Wow, scoring against Derek Anderson and Antonio Daniels while the entire Spurs defense was on shutting Shaq down is so impressive!


Do I have to go over this again?

Wilt missed the playoffs in '63, his team went 31-49 with him playing all 80 games. In 1965, Wilt's team went 10-28 but he was traded to the Sixers.

Oscar missed the playoffs in '61 (rookie yr), 68, '69, and '70.

Kareem missed back to back playoffs in the '70s with LA.

Yes, going back to the ABA, or even pre-ABA days is the way to go. Superstars did it back in the mid 70s and 60s, so it's absolutely normal even though something like that hasn't happened in 30 years.


Hakeem missed the playoffs in '92, although he did miss 12 games and in those 12 games his team collapsed.

As opposed to getting the same record with vs. without him.


Lebron in 04-05 averaged 27-7-7 on 55%TS but his team missed the playoffs.

Comparing a 20 year old soph to Kobe's prime is ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do. Kudos.

Leetonidas
01-14-2014, 06:25 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history
http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/basketball/top-10-nba-players-of-all-time.html
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2009-09-24/sporting-news-nba-athlete-decade-kobe-bryant-sg-lakershttp://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-091119-20/weekend-dime-picking-decade-best
http://dimemag.com/2012/09/10-best-nba-players-since-2000/10/
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/12/decades-top-10-players/
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2009-12-29-to-the-point-player-decade_N.htm
http://www.complex.com/sports/2012/05/the-20-best-nba-players-of-the-2000s/2000s-1
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/12/21/morning.tip/index.html
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/_/id/4018/nba-highlights-decade#top
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?657184-PSD-s-Official-1-NBA-player-of-the-00-10-decade/page6

:lol

Most of those are "players of the decade," which conveniently leaves off the year of Timmy's first title and exudes the embarrassing reality that has become the Lakers franchise since 2011. :lol lol trying to use a ten year sample when these guys have played 6-7 years outside of that. And citing Fox Sports and "hoopsmanifesto" :lmao I'll take the extensive poll done by the real hardcore fans of the NBA over the word of one dude who writes for a sports website.

tbh all Kobe has over Timmy is rings, but that isn't the end-all-be-all measurement otherwise we're agreeing that Sam Jones and Tommy Heinsohn are better players than Kobe. It's funny that on one of the lists your provide it claims the Spurs are the team of the decade but Kobe is the player of the decade, which is funny, because when it comes to individual awards, all-time, Timmy beats Kobe out tbh. More FMVP awards, more MVP awards, even a ROY award. Using advanced stats even further proves that Tim Duncan is the superior player all-time and impacted the game at a much higher level than Kobe. Duncan is also the only player in the history of the league to win more than 1 title without an All-NBA teammate in that season. Meanwhile Kobe has had all-star after all-star to carry him to rings his entire career

ambchang
01-14-2014, 08:10 PM
:lol

Most of those are "players of the decade," which conveniently leaves off the year of Timmy's first title and exudes the embarrassing reality that has become the Lakers franchise since 2011. :lol lol trying to use a ten year sample when these guys have played 6-7 years outside of that. And citing Fox Sports and "hoopsmanifesto" :lmao I'll take the extensive poll done by the real hardcore fans of the NBA over the word of one dude who writes for a sports website.

tbh all Kobe has over Timmy is rings, but that isn't the end-all-be-all measurement otherwise we're agreeing that Sam Jones and Tommy Heinsohn are better players than Kobe. It's funny that on one of the lists your provide it claims the Spurs are the team of the decade but Kobe is the player of the decade, which is funny, because when it comes to individual awards, all-time, Timmy beats Kobe out tbh. More FMVP awards, more MVP awards, even a ROY award. Using advanced stats even further proves that Tim Duncan is the superior player all-time and impacted the game at a much higher level than Kobe. Duncan is also the only player in the history of the league to win more than 1 title without an All-NBA teammate in that season. Meanwhile Kobe has had all-star after all-star to carry him to rings his entire career

But Duncan never blocked Lebron in an All-Star game.

TDMVPDPOY
01-14-2014, 08:20 PM
But Duncan never blocked Lebron in an All-Star game.

But kobe has never beaten lebron in a 7 game series...

elmanutres
01-14-2014, 08:20 PM
Kobe blocks Duncan 3 times in the same dam game:

mrfElBT_BOY


> First block wasn't even on duncan
>2nd block is an obvious goaltend
> only 1 legit block on duncan
>capri doesn't know how to count, he can't seem to count because duncan is not #4 and there were not 3 blocks on duncan on the vid
>you were always good on making propoganda. You should take your talents to north korea with rodman.

ambchang
01-14-2014, 08:40 PM
81 pt game = win
62 in 3 = win
9 straight 40pt games = 7-2 record
4 straight 50pt games = 4-0 record
Lakers are 5-0 in Kobe's 60 pt games

REGULAR SEASON

When Kobe scores 30+ points
274-145
.654 W-L%

When Kobe scores 40+ points
81-39
.675 W-L%

When Kobe scores 50+ points
17-7
.708 W-L%

PLAYOFFS

When Kobe scores 30+ points
57-31
.648 W-L%

When Kobe scores 40+ points
10-3
.769 W-L%

When Kobe scores 50+ points
0-1
.000 W-L%

FINALS

When Kobe scores 30+ points
9-4
.692 W-L%

When Kobe scores 40+ points
1-0
1.000 W-L%

A closer look at the numbers.

For the title years 01, 02 and 04.
Kobe PTS/Lakers record (Winning %)

Regular Season
0-10 / 1-3 (25%)
11-20 / 35-17 (67%)
21-30 / 67-17 (80%)
31-40 / 35-12 (74%)
41-50 / 8-1 (89%)
50+ / 0-1 (0%)

Playoffs:
0-10 / 1-1 (50%)
11-20 / 9-5 (64%)
21-30 / 22-7 (76%)
31-40 / 9-4 (69%)
41-50 / 3-0 (100%)
50+ / N/A

So looking at it, there is obviously a correlation for anything over 20points vs. less than 20 points, but not within these groups. But then of course, as a 2nd banana, Kobe scores more when Shaq is being shut down, no surprises here.

Let's look at the 05-07 years, where Kobe was the undoubted #1 option on Lakers.

Regular Season:
0-10 / 1-1 (50%)
11-20 / 3-12 (20%)
21-30 / 21-23 (48%)
31-40 / 25-27 (48%)
41-50 / 20-12 (63%)
50+ / 4-2 (67%)

Playoffs
0-10 / N/A
11-20 / 1-0 (100%)
21-30 / 2-3 (40%)
31-40 / N/A
41-50 / N/A
50+ / 0-1 (0%)

Not as much or a correlation, in fact, pretty much no effect. So when Kobe is the lead guy, how many points he score doesn't necessarily translates into more wins.

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 05:06 AM
:lol

Most of those are "players of the decade," which conveniently leaves off the year of Timmy's first title and exudes the embarrassing reality that has become the Lakers franchise since 2011. :lol lol trying to use a ten year sample when these guys have played 6-7 years outside of that. And citing Fox Sports and "hoopsmanifesto" :lmao I'll take the extensive poll done by the real hardcore fans of the NBA over the word of one dude who writes for a sports website.

tbh all Kobe has over Timmy is rings, but that isn't the end-all-be-all measurement otherwise we're agreeing that Sam Jones and Tommy Heinsohn are better players than Kobe. It's funny that on one of the lists your provide it claims the Spurs are the team of the decade but Kobe is the player of the decade, which is funny, because when it comes to individual awards, all-time, Timmy beats Kobe out tbh. More FMVP awards, more MVP awards, even a ROY award. Using advanced stats even further proves that Tim Duncan is the superior player all-time and impacted the game at a much higher level than Kobe. Duncan is also the only player in the history of the league to win more than 1 title without an All-NBA teammate in that season. Meanwhile Kobe has had all-star after all-star to carry him to rings his entire career
Wait wait what? Duncan has 2 scoring titles? Duncan has reached the 30k club? Duncan has the 5th most 30pt games in nba history? Duncan has the 3rd most 40pt games in nba history? Duncan has the 3rd most 50 point games of alltime? Duncan has the 5 60 point games which is good for 2nd alltime? Duncan has the 3rd most playoff points ever? Duncan has the 2nd most 30 point playoff games ever? Duncan has 11 all nba first teams which is the most ever?

Also you didn't respond to these links which are ALLTIME RANKINGS not decade or since 00, ALLTIME:

http://www.sportscity.com/whos-the-b...ry/2013/04/05/
http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/...players?page=5
Weird list but Kobe's still ahead lol http://m.voices.yahoo.com/counting-d...-12161861.html
http://m.ranker.com/crowdranked-list...rs-of-all-time
Found one with Duncan over Kobe! http://www.basesandbaskets.com/2012/...-time.html?m=1
http://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/to...s-of-all-time/
Top 50 list http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/20...f-all-time/#45

And just lmao at spurfan using a poll by fans as evidence for Duncan being better when I posted MULTPLE fan voting results having Kirby curbstomping Duncan in votes and you guys dismissed it saying "lol at fan voting" when you are here posting what? Fan voting lmao. And one poll btw only.

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 05:16 AM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?635088-PSD-s-Top-50-List-of-the-Greatest-NBA-Players-of-All-Time

Voting for #7:
Shaquille O'Neal = 102 votes
Kobe Bryant = 42 votes
Oscar Robertson = 15 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 10 votes
Tim Duncan = 10 votes
Jerry West = 3 votes
Julius Erving = 2 votes
Isiah Thomas = 2 vote
John Stockton = 1 vote
Elgin Baylor = 1 vote

Voting for #8:
Kobe Bryant = 102 votes
Tim Duncan = 65 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 59 votes
Oscar Robertson = 19 votes
Jerry West = 7 votes
Patrick Ewing = 5 votes
Lebron James = 4 votes
Isiah Thomas = 2 votes
Charles Barkley = 2 votes
Dirk Nowitzki = 2 votes
Karl Malone = 1 vote
Julius Erving = 1 vote
John Stockton = 1 vote
Elgin Baylor = 1 vote
Bob Cousy = 1 vote
Dwyane Wade = 1 vote
Moses Malone = 1 vote


Will be dismissed as fan voting, but spurfan will use evidence of another forum's top players list.

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 05:31 AM
A closer look at the numbers.

For the title years 01, 02 and 04.
Kobe PTS/Lakers record (Winning %)

Regular Season
0-10 / 1-3 (25%)
11-20 / 35-17 (tel:11-20 / 35-17) (67%)
21-30 / 67-17 (tel:21-30 / 67-17) (80%)
31-40 / 35-12 (tel:31-40 / 35-12) (74%)
41-50 / 8-1 (89%)
50+ / 0-1 (0%)

Playoffs:
0-10 / 1-1 (50%)
11-20 / 9-5 (64%)
21-30 / 22-7 (tel:21-30 / 22-7) (76%)
31-40 / 9-4 (69%)
41-50 / 3-0 (100%)
50+ / N/A

So looking at it, there is obviously a correlation for anything over 20points vs. less than 20 points, but not within these groups. But then of course, as a 2nd banana, Kobe scores more when Shaq is being shut down, no surprises here.

Let's look at the 05-07 years, where Kobe was the undoubted #1 option on Lakers.

Regular Season:
0-10 / 1-1 (50%)
11-20 / 3-12 (tel:11-20 / 3-12) (20%)
21-30 / 21-23 (tel:21-30 / 21-23) (48%)
31-40 / 25-27 (tel:31-40 / 25-27) (48%)
41-50 / 20-12 (tel:41-50 / 20-12) (63%)
50+ / 4-2 (67%)

Playoffs
0-10 / N/A
11-20 / 1-0 (100%)
21-30 / 2-3 (40%)
31-40 / N/A
41-50 / N/A
50+ / 0-1 (0%)

Not as much or a correlation, in fact, pretty much no effect. So when Kobe is the lead guy, how many points he score doesn't necessarily translates into more wins.
2001 2nd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Sacramento Kings
35.0 ppg 9.0 rpg 4.3 apg 47%fg 20%3P 86%FT

2001 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs San Antonio Spurs
33.3 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.0 apg 51%fg 36%3P 77%FT

2003 1st Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Minnesota Timberwolves
31.8 ppg 5.2 rpg 6.7 apg 43%fg 36%3P 87%FT

2008 1st Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets
33.5 ppg 5.3 rpg 6.3 apg 50%fg 33%3P 74%FT

2008 2nd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Utah Jazz
33.2 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.2 apg 49%fg 21%3P 83%FT

2008 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs San Antonio Spurs
29.2 ppg 5.6 rpg 3.8 apg 53%fg 33%3P 91%FT

2009 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets
34.0 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg 48%fg 34%3P 93%FT

2009 NBA Finals Kobe Bryant vs Orlando Magic
32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg 43%fg 36%3P 84%FT

2010 2nd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Utah Jazz
32.0 ppg 3.8 rpg 5.8 apg 52%fg 25%3P 87%FT

2010 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Phoenix Suns
33.7ppg 7.2 rpg 8.3 apg 52%fg 43%3P 88%FT

ALL SERIES WINS. 9 30ppg series, another additional series with 29+ppg.

His other 4 30 ppg playoff series not listed were loses. So a 9-4 SERIES RECORD WHEN KOBE AVERAGES 30 PPG. .692 W%.

ambchang
01-15-2014, 07:44 AM
2001 2nd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Sacramento Kings
35.0 ppg 9.0 rpg 4.3 apg 47%fg 20%3P 86%FT

2001 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs San Antonio Spurs
33.3 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.0 apg 51%fg 36%3P 77%FT

2003 1st Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Minnesota Timberwolves
31.8 ppg 5.2 rpg 6.7 apg 43%fg 36%3P 87%FT

2008 1st Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets
33.5 ppg 5.3 rpg 6.3 apg 50%fg 33%3P 74%FT

2008 2nd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Utah Jazz
33.2 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.2 apg 49%fg 21%3P 83%FT

2008 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs San Antonio Spurs
29.2 ppg 5.6 rpg 3.8 apg 53%fg 33%3P 91%FT

2009 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets
34.0 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg 48%fg 34%3P 93%FT

2009 NBA Finals Kobe Bryant vs Orlando Magic
32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg 43%fg 36%3P 84%FT

2010 2nd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Utah Jazz
32.0 ppg 3.8 rpg 5.8 apg 52%fg 25%3P 87%FT

2010 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Phoenix Suns
33.7ppg 7.2 rpg 8.3 apg 52%fg 43%3P 88%FT

ALL SERIES WINS. 9 30ppg series, another additional series with 29+ppg.

His other 4 30 ppg playoff series not listed were loses. So a 9-4 SERIES RECORD WHEN KOBE AVERAGES 30 PPG. .692 W%.

We all know Kobe can score when another team's defense is focusing on the best frontline in the NBA, allowing him open shots or single coverage all game. No surprises here.

ambchang
01-15-2014, 07:51 AM
Wait wait what? Duncan has 2 scoring titles? Duncan has reached the 30k club? Duncan has the 5th most 30pt games in nba history? Duncan has the 3rd most 40pt games in nba history? Duncan has the 3rd most 50 point games of alltime? Duncan has the 5 60 point games which is good for 2nd alltime? Duncan has the 3rd most playoff points ever? Duncan has the 2nd most 30 point playoff games ever? Duncan has 11 all nba first teams which is the most ever?

Wow! One "accolade" that didn't involve scoring. Do you want to list most points scored in a quarter, most quarters scoring 5 points or more, most quarters scoring 10 points or more, most halves scoring 7 points or more, most points scored on January 11th, most points scored in all star games, and other irrelevant scoring milestones? In other news, Monta Ellis > John Stockton.

As for the all-NBA teams ... let's see, voted by media, LA has the largest media .... which explains why Kobe was voted ahead of Westbrook and Parker last year.


Also you didn't respond to these links which are ALLTIME RANKINGS not decade or since 00, ALLTIME:

http://www.sportscity.com/whos-the-b...ry/2013/04/05/
http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/...players?page=5
Weird list but Kobe's still ahead lol http://m.voices.yahoo.com/counting-d...-12161861.html
http://m.ranker.com/crowdranked-list...rs-of-all-time
Found one with Duncan over Kobe! http://www.basesandbaskets.com/2012/...-time.html?m=1
http://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/to...s-of-all-time/
Top 50 list http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/20...f-all-time/#45

And just lmao at spurfan using a poll by fans as evidence for Duncan being better when I posted MULTPLE fan voting results having Kirby curbstomping Duncan in votes and you guys dismissed it saying "lol at fan voting" when you are here posting what? Fan voting lmao. And one poll btw only.

Again, playing for a one of the largest media market in the world has something to do with it, no?

ambchang
01-15-2014, 07:59 AM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?635088-PSD-s-Top-50-List-of-the-Greatest-NBA-Players-of-All-Time

Voting for #7:
Shaquille O'Neal = 102 votes
Kobe Bryant = 42 votes
Oscar Robertson = 15 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 10 votes
Tim Duncan = 10 votes
Jerry West = 3 votes
Julius Erving = 2 votes
Isiah Thomas = 2 vote
John Stockton = 1 vote
Elgin Baylor = 1 vote

Voting for #8:
Kobe Bryant = 102 votes
Tim Duncan = 65 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 59 votes
Oscar Robertson = 19 votes
Jerry West = 7 votes
Patrick Ewing = 5 votes
Lebron James = 4 votes
Isiah Thomas = 2 votes
Charles Barkley = 2 votes
Dirk Nowitzki = 2 votes
Karl Malone = 1 vote
Julius Erving = 1 vote
John Stockton = 1 vote
Elgin Baylor = 1 vote
Bob Cousy = 1 vote
Dwyane Wade = 1 vote
Moses Malone = 1 vote


Will be dismissed as fan voting, but spurfan will use evidence of another forum's top players list.

So .. Shaq > Kobe, and prime #7 + prime #8 had a 3-2 record in the playoffs against prime #10 and WAY out of prime #16. Makes perfect sense.

AchillesHeel
01-15-2014, 08:02 AM
im talkin about those years he broke records, what did it equate to? = rings?

Kirby actually holds the NBA record for 3 straight playoff runs with 600+ points(2008-2010), MJ never did that and they won 2 rings during that time span. I thought it was an interesting fact/record.

TDMVPDPOY
01-15-2014, 08:07 AM
kirbyfans living in the past...just like the asslickers upstairs....

lakers aint gong anywhere with the rapists on the payroll, same with the current sperms 3tosb

Killakobe81
01-15-2014, 08:12 AM
Skills without results mean nothing. If a player A is more skilled than player B, but playerB is more dominant and easier to build around, nobody will pick player A as the better player.

Example: divac vs shaq.

Horrible example. Skilled or not who would take Divac? Wilt is more dominant yet some prefer Kareem ...dat is a better example ...do you try to be this dense or did you get lose some hoops iq points? You are better than this ...

Koolaid_Man
01-15-2014, 08:23 AM
Horrible example. Skilled or not who would take Divac? Wilt is more dominant yet some prefer Kareem ...dat is a better example ...do you try to be this dense or did you get lose some hoops iq points? You are better than this ...

^ I like you Killa but I wouldn't be caught in a Foxhole with you homie :lol...you go take a shit in the woods and Spur fan will snipe you in the ass as you're pulling your pants up...you're just too nice a guy always giving Spur fan the benefit of the doubt...when you know they're weasels...

Leetonidas
01-15-2014, 09:19 AM
Wait wait what? Duncan has 2 scoring titles? Duncan has reached the 30k club? Duncan has the 5th most 30pt games in nba history? Duncan has the 3rd most 40pt games in nba history? Duncan has the 3rd most 50 point games of alltime? Duncan has the 5 60 point games which is good for 2nd alltime? Duncan has the 3rd most playoff points ever? Duncan has the 2nd most 30 point playoff games ever? Duncan has 11 all nba first teams which is the most ever?

Also you didn't respond to these links which are ALLTIME RANKINGS not decade or since 00, ALLTIME:

http://www.sportscity.com/whos-the-b...ry/2013/04/05/
http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/...players?page=5
Weird list but Kobe's still ahead lol http://m.voices.yahoo.com/counting-d...-12161861.html
http://m.ranker.com/crowdranked-list...rs-of-all-time
Found one with Duncan over Kobe! http://www.basesandbaskets.com/2012/...-time.html?m=1
http://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/to...s-of-all-time/
Top 50 list http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/20...f-all-time/#45

And just lmao at spurfan using a poll by fans as evidence for Duncan being better when I posted MULTPLE fan voting results having Kirby curbstomping Duncan in votes and you guys dismissed it saying "lol at fan voting" when you are here posting what? Fan voting lmao. And one poll btw only.

lol who the fuck cares about random shit like that. There is no award for being in the 30k club. Kobefan resorting to using points scored as some kind of point :lol Keep reaching bro, eventually you'll find something worthy of debating with

:cry b-b-but Kobe scored more points in the regular season than Timmy! :cry

:lmao just sad that you're really resorting to using points scored as your defense when Timmy's work on defense outweighs any chucking by Kobe. Oh and cool story bro, he has him edged out in All-NBA teams barely? Does Kobe have 14 All-Defense selections? No? Was Kobe the only player in league history to be on the all-defensive team for the first 13 seasons of his career? Nope??? Just stop dude :lmao

AchillesHeel
01-15-2014, 09:21 AM
lol who the fuck cares about random shit like that. There is no award for being in the 30k club. Kobefan resorting to using points scored as some kind of point :lol Keep reaching bro, eventually you'll find something worthy of debating with

You must forgive the Kobe stans. They don't know that there's this thing called defense. They only care about offensive production(points).

Leetonidas
01-15-2014, 09:25 AM
Also ESPN has multiple Duncan finals performances in their greatest of all-time, go look at how many Kobe has :lol

Leetonidas
01-15-2014, 09:28 AM
You must forgive the Kobe stans. They don't know that there's this thing called defense. They only care about offensive production(points).

Waiting for him to bring up Kobe's bullshit all-defensive team nods as a defense against Tim shitting on him there. In terms of total All-NBA awards, Kobe is at 14, Tim Duncan is at 13. Tim also made 1st team 8 straight seasons since his rookie year whereas Kobe didn't even crack first team until 2002.

Not to mention that Duncan played in an era filled with great PFs and centers, having to compete with players like Shaq, J. O'Neal, Webber, Nowitzki, Garnett, etc for his nods whereas Kobe's competition were chuckers like AI, players like VC who didn't have the drive, Jason Kidd, and McGrady who started declining with back problems. Wade was the only player who even came close to challenging Kobe. So a lot of his selections, while warranted, were also the product of the SG position sucking post-Jordan for the most part. SG has always been one of the weaker positions

AchillesHeel
01-15-2014, 09:48 AM
Waiting for him to bring up Kobe's bullshit all-defensive team nods as a defense against Tim shitting on him there. In terms of total All-NBA awards, Kobe is at 14, Tim Duncan is at 13. Tim also made 1st team 8 straight seasons since his rookie year whereas Kobe didn't even crack first team until 2002.

Not to mention that Duncan played in an era filled with great PFs and centers, having to compete with players like Shaq, J. O'Neal, Webber, Nowitzki, Garnett, etc for his nods whereas Kobe's competition were chuckers like AI, players like VC who didn't have the drive, Jason Kidd, and McGrady who started declining with back problems. Wade was the only player who even came close to challenging Kobe. So a lot of his selections, while warranted, were also the product of the SG position sucking post-Jordan for the most part. SG has always been one of the weaker positions

Especially when they changed the defensive rules in 05-06. look at how many wings averaged 20+ ppg that year. at least 20 players did.

ambchang
01-15-2014, 10:43 AM
Horrible example. Skilled or not who would take Divac? Wilt is more dominant yet some prefer Kareem ...dat is a better example ...do you try to be this dense or did you get lose some hoops iq points? You are better than this ...

Is Divac or Shaq more skilled?

Skilled or not, who would take Kobe over Lebron?

Buddy, you came up with the skilled argument, and I am saying it's flawed.

KAJ was dominant as hell and was comparable to Wilt. Kobe's prime wasn't even comparable to Lebron's.

Killakobe81
01-15-2014, 11:00 AM
Is Divac or Shaq more skilled?

Skilled or not, who would take Kobe over Lebron?

Who is more skilled Duncan or Shaq? Hakeem or Wilt?
Point being this was not about who would I take Again LeBron is the most dominant player I ever seen but MJ is more skilled I can see why some would prefer MJ ...that is a more apt comparison to my point. As Philip or someone else pointed out best can be defined plenty of ways. If Shaq or Duncan are in the same draft maybe evry team or 90% take Shaq. He is bigger more dominant etc. You argue Duncan is easier to build around yet Shaq is the player that has made the Finals with 3 different coaches and with 3 different supportiig casts. after David left Tim has had mostly the same core and the sane coach. Many rank Shaq over Tim on GOAT lists but I disagree. Shaq has the better prime, more dominant but Ivprefer Tim's higher skill level consistent greatness better clutch player. That is not all that hard to understand. Not saying Tim is the,best big he is just what I prefer.
As for Kobe LeBron same deal I would draft LeBron over Kobe if they were in the same draft he is the greater more dominant player his Herculean displays of athleticism and passing Kobe can not match. But if you watch them dribble, shoot footwork I prefer Kobe's game. He shoots too much for my taste but he is a fundamentally better skilled player. He is just not greater than LeBron who in the convo for GOAT while Kobe is not if he ever was ...

And its not only Laker fans U know a chick that is on scholarship for University Of Kansas many of their team prefer Kobe's game guys and girls team over James. Not that they are Laker fans but they just appreciate his footwork and ball skills.

Killakobe81
01-15-2014, 11:03 AM
Is Divac or Shaq more skilled?

Skilled or not, who would take Kobe over Lebron?

Buddy, you came up with the skilled argument, and I am saying it's flawed.

KAJ was dominant as hell and was comparable to Wilt. Kobe's prime wasn't even comparable to Lebron's.

Buddy I agree LeBron's prime is more dominant, when did I argue otherwise?

Killakobe81
01-15-2014, 11:06 AM
Waiting for him to bring up Kobe's bullshit all-defensive team nods as a defense against Tim shitting on him there. In terms of total All-NBA awards, Kobe is at 14, Tim Duncan is at 13. Tim also made 1st team 8 straight seasons since his rookie year whereas Kobe didn't even crack first team until 2002.

Not to mention that Duncan played in an era filled with great PFs and centers, having to compete with players like Shaq, J. O'Neal, Webber, Nowitzki, Garnett, etc for his nods whereas Kobe's competition were chuckers like AI, players like VC who didn't have the drive, Jason Kidd, and McGrady who started declining with back problems. Wade was the only player who even came close to challenging Kobe. So a lot of his selections, while warranted, were also the product of the SG position sucking post-Jordan for the most part. SG has always been one of the weaker positions

Some valid points here Duncan is great and his position pf was much more competuve than what Shaq faced at center for his prime. However we also know Tim was a center playing pf and had a huge advantage over the peers you mention ...

Leetonidas
01-15-2014, 11:59 AM
tbh considering that Robinson was the starter next to him for his first 6 years in the league and big Dave couldn't do jack outside of the basket area followed by slow as fuck Rasho Nesterovic and Nazr Mohammed, then Oberto who couldn't do anything outside of the basket area, I don't think Duncan's prime was spent playing at the C position. I think people forget how mobile Tim was and the fact the he has always had a great midrange game. He was never a traditional lumbering C imo, he has only shifted into that role as the Spurs' personnel has changed and the league's PFs have all become stretch 4s and the traditional PF has become the C of today.

Really, he is a player who can dominate at both positions. Doesn't change that he is the best PF of all-time

ambchang
01-15-2014, 12:21 PM
Who is more skilled Duncan or Shaq? Hakeem or Wilt?
Point being this was not about who would I take Again LeBron is the most dominant player I ever seen but MJ is more skilled I can see why some would prefer MJ ...that is a more apt comparison to my point. As Philip or someone else pointed out best can be defined plenty of ways. If Shaq or Duncan are in the same draft maybe evry team or 90% take Shaq. He is bigger more dominant etc. You argue Duncan is easier to build around yet Shaq is the player that has made the Finals with 3 different coaches and with 3 different supportiig casts. after David left Tim has had mostly the same core and the sane coach. Many rank Shaq over Tim on GOAT lists but I disagree. Shaq has the better prime, more dominant but Ivprefer Tim's higher skill level consistent greatness better clutch player. That is not all that hard to understand. Not saying Tim is the,best big he is just what I prefer.

I wouldn't call Wade Shaq's supporting cast, it was the other way around in 2006. As for Orlando, he was surrounded by three point shooters and a player similar to Kobe in Hardaway. Again, looking at advanced stats, Duncan was as dominant as Shaq, maybe slightly less so, but it is very comparable.

Duncan only won with one single head coach, but it's more to do with his career and choices than anything else. He won the finals with the 99/03/05 and 07 version of the Spurs, all very different makeups and philosophies. More importantly, those were entirely different eras of basketball, shifting from 90s thugball to a more open court league in the mid 00's.

I am not entirely sure 90% would draft Shaq over Duncan, especially when you factor in defense.


As for Kobe LeBron same deal I would draft LeBron over Kobe if they were in the same draft he is the greater more dominant player his Herculean displays of athleticism and passing Kobe can not match. But if you watch them dribble, shoot footwork I prefer Kobe's game. He shoots too much for my taste but he is a fundamentally better skilled player. He is just not greater than LeBron who in the convo for GOAT while Kobe is not if he ever was ...

Not the same situation. Shaq and Duncan was comparable in terms of dominance and effects on the game. Kobe and Lebron isn't, and that's my point. Vlade vs. Shaq was an extreme version of Kobe vs. Lebron.


And its not only Laker fans U know a chick that is on scholarship for University Of Kansas many of their team prefer Kobe's game guys and girls team over James. Not that they are Laker fans but they just appreciate his footwork and ball skills.

I couldn't care less, just like nobody cares that I appreciate Rony Seikaly's game or Brad Daughtery's game over Wilt's game.


Buddy I agree LeBron's prime is more dominant, when did I argue otherwise?

But how much more dominant is the question. KAJ ~ Wilt, Lebron >>>> Kobe.

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 02:13 PM
Wow! One "accolade" that didn't involve scoring. Do you want to list most points scored in a quarter, most quarters scoring 5 points or more, most quarters scoring 10 points or more, most halves scoring 7 points or more, most points scored on January 11th, most points scored in all star games, and other irrelevant scoring milestones? In other news, Monta Ellis > John Stockton.

As for the all-NBA teams ... let's see, voted by media, LA has the largest media .... which explains why Kobe was voted ahead of Westbrook and Parker last year.



Again, playing for a one of the largest media market in the world has something to do with it, no?
Spurfan continues to dismiss facts lmao

"irrelevant scoring milestones"

ElNono
01-15-2014, 02:19 PM
lmao still posting links to fan popularity lists

spurraider21
01-15-2014, 02:53 PM
there's a reason kobe is soon going to break the record for most field goals missed in NBA history (already does if you include playoffs). his scoring is a result of sheer volume

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 02:55 PM
lmao still posting links to fan popularity lists
Deflecting and dismissing

spurraider21
01-15-2014, 02:57 PM
also, a player's "skill" is irrelevant, compared to his effectiveness

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 02:57 PM
there's a reason kobe is soon going to break the record for most field goals missed in NBA history (already does if you include playoffs). his scoring is a result of sheer volume
TS%
Kobe 55.5
Duncan 55.1

Playoffs
Kobe 54.1
Duncan 54.7

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 02:59 PM
TS% will be dismissed in 5 4 3 2....

spurraider21
01-15-2014, 02:59 PM
true shooting percentage favors guards due to the inclusion of free throws. once again, you are "deflecting and dismissing" the fact that kobe is soon going to be tops on the all-time regular season bricks list.

if you are so hell-bent on including the 3point shot, use EFG% instead, where Duncan is still ahead of Kirbs, because Kobe has always been a mediocre three point shooter

ambchang
01-15-2014, 03:48 PM
Spurfan continues to dismiss facts lmao

"irrelevant scoring milestones"

Because things such as 5th most 30pt games in nba history, 3rd most 40pt games in nba history, 3rd most 50 point games of alltime, having 5 60 point games, 2nd most 30 point playoff games ever are very relevant.

Do you have things such as the most 5 point 2 minute spans in February games, most 3 pointers in the second night of a full moon, and other important scoring milestones?

Another important mile stone, most missed shots in NBA history without being #1 in scoring, or anywhere close to it.

ambchang
01-15-2014, 03:49 PM
TS%
Kobe 55.5
Duncan 55.1

Playoffs
Kobe 54.1
Duncan 54.7

This must have been the 5th time I am educating you about TS%, and how it favours guards. And yet, you continue to read up on it.

ElNono
01-15-2014, 04:12 PM
Deflecting and dismissing

:lol how is it deflecting when that's exactly what you're doing?

lol now running away from it

Killakobe81
01-15-2014, 04:28 PM
I wouldn't call Wade Shaq's supporting cast, it was the other way around in 2006. As for Orlando, he was surrounded by three point shooters and a player similar to Kobe in Hardaway. Again, looking at advanced stats, Duncan was as dominant as Shaq, maybe slightly less so, but it is very comparable.

Duncan only won with one single head coach, but it's more to do with his career and choices than anything else. He won the finals with the 99/03/05 and 07 version of the Spurs, all very different makeups and philosophies. More importantly, those were entirely different eras of basketball, shifting from 90s thugball to a more open court league in the mid 00's.

I am not entirely sure 90% would draft Shaq over Duncan, especially when you factor in defense.



Not the same situation. Shaq and Duncan was comparable in terms of dominance and effects on the game. Kobe and Lebron isn't, and that's my point. Vlade vs. Shaq was an extreme version of Kobe vs. Lebron.



I couldn't care less, just like nobody cares that I appreciate Rony Seikaly's game or Brad Daughtery's game over Wilt's game.



But how much more dominant is the question. KAJ ~ Wilt, Lebron >>>> Kobe.

you couldn't care less but you do so that is why you troll ...
My only point was that some people determine "better" by different criteria which Phillip already stated quite well IIRC.
I really dont care how much more dominant Lebron is to Kobe, apparently that is a BIG deal to you.
But he also is more dominant than Duncan as well ...Doesnt change my argument.
I think Lebron has a chance to go down as the GOAt and if he does I'm sure many will say there is a HUGE gap between James and Kobe and that would be fine as well.
I dont hate Lebron or his game ...like you do Kobe.

Killakobe81
01-15-2014, 04:29 PM
TS% will be dismissed in 5 4 3 2....

Oh, Deuce amb only likes advanced metrics that supports his biases like Win shares and Drating ...
I thought you knew this ...

Killakobe81
01-15-2014, 04:32 PM
also, a player's "skill" is irrelevant, compared to his effectiveness

I dont disagree. If I needed two points I would rather have a shaq two handed flush or a Lebron james drive ...
But A Ray allen Jumper, Kobe fade-away, Dreamshake or Timmy bank shot are more pleasing to my basketball eye.

Don't get me wrong a Shaq or james dunk on over or through someone can have way more impact then of the plays I just mentioned.

Leetonidas
01-15-2014, 06:26 PM
TS% will not favor a player like Duncan who doesn't shoot three pointers and shoots free throws ~70% for his career. This is like me trying to claim Duncan is better because he has more rebounds :lol

Kidd K
01-15-2014, 06:30 PM
Shaq is debatable, but they are damn close to eachother either way. I give Shaq a slight edge, but it's very close and can change if Duncan has another postseason like he did last year. If he merely gets to the Finals and does very well, he's arguably above Shaq. Wins another ring while doing well, easily above Shaq.

Kobe is comfortably beneath both players and at this point with how the Lakers look, has no hope of passing either.

Clipper Nation
01-15-2014, 06:32 PM
TS% will not favor a player like Duncan who doesn't shoot three pointers and shoots free throws ~70% for his career. This is like me trying to claim Duncan is better because he has more rebounds :lol

:lol Hilarious to see Kirbystan try (and fail) to pretend that they understand advanced stats, when all they really comprehend is PPG and ring count....

DMC
01-15-2014, 06:36 PM
Kirby actually holds the NBA record for 3 straight playoff runs with 600+ points(2008-2010), MJ never did that and they won 2 rings during that time span. I thought it was an interesting fact/record.

Taking more games to win has something to do with that perhaps?

DMC
01-15-2014, 06:41 PM
you couldn't care less but you do so that is why you troll ...
My only point was that some people determine "better" by different criteria which Phillip already stated quite well IIRC.
I really dont care how much more dominant Lebron is to Kobe, apparently that is a BIG deal to you.
But he also is more dominant than Duncan as well ...Doesnt change my argument.
I think Lebron has a chance to go down as the GOAt and if he does I'm sure many will say there is a HUGE gap between James and Kobe and that would be fine as well.
I dont hate Lebron or his game ...like you do Kobe.

People are so antsy to crown a new GOAT they called him KING before he ever won a fucking thing. He's got a long way to go to be anywhere close to GOAT. Falsely putting Kobe eve remotely close is why the curve is so skewed to GOAT. Lebron is better than Kobe, but Kobe was nowhere close to Michael. Don't let the ring count fool you.

I find it amusing when Laker fans say "Kobe outscored Dallas for 3 quarters..." as if Kobe did all the work at the defensive end to contain Dallas.

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 09:04 PM
Because things such as 5th most 30pt games in nba history, 3rd most 40pt games in nba history, 3rd most 50 point games of alltime, having 5 60 point games, 2nd most 30 point playoff games ever are very relevant.

Do you have things such as the most 5 point 2 minute spans in February games, most 3 pointers in the second night of a full moon, and other important scoring milestones?

Another important mile stone, most missed shots in NBA history without being #1 in scoring, or anywhere close to it.
Wow you should re-read what you posted.

Spurstalk where having the 3rd most 50 point games in nba history is irrelavant and comparable to most 3pointers on a full moon.

Honestly tell me what's better. Having one more MVP award or being #4 on the alltime scoring list? Having one more Finals MVP or being 3rd on the alltime playoff scoring list and having one more ring?

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 09:11 PM
I already made a thread on Kobe and Duncan's effiency here http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225370

Don't like TS%? Fine I didn't use it.

ambchang
01-15-2014, 10:04 PM
Wow you should re-read what you posted.

Spurstalk where having the 3rd most 50 point games in nba history is irrelavant and comparable to most 3pointers on a full moon.

Honestly tell me what's better. Having one more MVP award or being #4 on the alltime scoring list? Having one more Finals MVP or being 3rd on the alltime playoff scoring list and having one more ring?

From an individual perspective, of course winning a finals MVP and MVP trumps scoring. The point of scoring is to win games, a finals MVP and an MVP means you have won.

Also, not sure if Karl Malone still lives in LA, but you can ask him.

Speaking of KM, Malone or Hakeem on the all time list?

ambchang
01-15-2014, 10:25 PM
you couldn't care less but you do so that is why you troll ...
My only point was that some people determine "better" by different criteria which Phillip already stated quite well IIRC.
I really dont care how much more dominant Lebron is to Kobe, apparently that is a BIG deal to you.
But he also is more dominant than Duncan as well ...Doesnt change my argument.
I think Lebron has a chance to go down as the GOAt and if he does I'm sure many will say there is a HUGE gap between James and Kobe and that would be fine as well.
I dont hate Lebron or his game ...like you do Kobe.

I couldn't care less because skills doesn't directly lead to wins or chances at championship. Just that I think saying skills = better is flawed. I can are it as an argument when two players are similar in outputs and effects on winning, but that's not the case between Lebron and Kobe. There's a huge gap, and there's been a gap for years.

ambchang
01-15-2014, 10:27 PM
Oh, Deuce amb only likes advanced metrics that supports his biases like Win shares and Drating ...
I thought you knew this ...

Not true. Ts% is a good metric to compare players with similar roles, like guards vs guards or front court vs front court, but is flawed because it does not factor in things like long rebounds, fouling out other players, missed rebounds and opposition scoring opportunities, and discounts FTs.

Deuce Bigalow
01-15-2014, 10:30 PM
From an individual perspective, of course winning a finals MVP and MVP trumps scoring. The point of scoring is to win games, a finals MVP and an MVP means you have won.

Also, not sure if Karl Malone still lives in LA, but you can ask him.

Speaking of KM, Malone or Hakeem on the all time list?
Kobe has 2 of them and 5 rings so its not like the Malone comparison makes sense if you read my question - 1 less finals mvp (not having zero but one less) and having an extra ring and having 31.7k points (4th alltime).

Give me 5 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 4th most points, and 3rd most playoff points over 4 rings, 3 finals mvps, 2 mvps.

ambchang
01-16-2014, 09:27 AM
Kobe has 2 of them and 5 rings so its not like the Malone comparison makes sense if you read my question - 1 less finals mvp (not having zero but one less) and having an extra ring and having 31.7k points (4th alltime).

Give me 5 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 4th most points, and 3rd most playoff points over 4 rings, 3 finals mvps, 2 mvps.

Why not? Isnt' 2 > 1 by 1, and 1 > 0 by 1? What's the difference?

My counter argument is give me 4 alpha rings, 3 finals MVPs, 2 MVP, #9 in RS blocks #14 in RS rebounds, #3 in PO rebounds, and #1 in PO blocks.