Pop's coaching tree versus Phil Jackson's

[Old School 44]

The article is more about Brian Shaw, the lone disciple of Phil Jackson coaching in the league, but there is an interesting comparison with Pop and the Spurs at the bottom of the article. Why the coaching tree disparity?

Here are a few paragraphs and a link to the full article.


“Phil stayed purposefully disconnected from people around the league,” Shaw said. “That was his thing: Keep everybody at bay, because he wanted to have an edge. He wasn’t part of any coach’s clique or anything like that. There’s other coaches around the league that anything they touch turns to gold. If they anoint this guy he’s going to be coach or a GM.”

Sure seems that way for Gregg Popovich. The San Antonio Spurs’ web spreads from coast to coast, with coaches Brett Brown (Philadelphia) Mike Brown (Cleveland), Jacque Vaughn (Orlando), Mike Budenholzer (Atlanta), Monty Williams (New Orleans) and Doc Rivers (Los Angeles Clippers), along with front office executives Danny Ferry (Atlanta), Sam Presti (Oklahoma City), Dell Demps (New Orleans), Kevin Pritchard (Indiana) and Rob Hennigan (Orlando).

One reason for the proliferation of Pop people was told to me when I examined the phenomenon last year: there’s a belief that the Popovich way can work in small markets with smaller budgets, and not just in L.A. or Chicago with Kobe, Shaq or Michael Jordan. Of course, we have yet to see any of the Spurs’ spawns achieve San Antonio’s success. It might be too much to ask of the Spurs themselves once Tim Duncan is gone.

That hasn’t stopped franchise after franchise from trying to get themselves a piece of what Pop’s done in San Antonio. Meanwhile, Shaw goes at it alone, the only head coach who’s an associate of the best that ever did it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/65170/phil-jacksons-lone-branch-manager

[RD2191]

Phil is the most overrated coach of all time, stacked rosters, GOAT players, never built a team, pretty much had rings handed to him.

[Old School 44]

I really can't fault Phil for stacked rosters. People will argue Jordan didn't win anything until Phil got there. Same with Lakers and Shaq/Kobe.

[313]

Phil without a stacked team = trash

[Richie]

Pretty sure I read something about Larry Brown being the same way. If you were one of Larrys assistants, you were going to end up in a job somewhere. Worked out for Pop and RC.

Was Doc actually anything to do with Pop? He finished playing in '96, did he coach under Pop before going to the Magic?

[hater]

Phil without a stacked team = trash

PJ is like an ace AF pilot. He requires a 25 billion dollar airplane in order to shine.

Pop is like an AF engineer who happens to have his flight license and happens to be pretty damn good at flying.

apples and oranges IMO

[Old School 44]

Pretty sure I read something about Larry Brown being the same way. If you were one of Larrys assistants, you were going to end up in a job somewhere. Worked out for Pop and RC.

Was Doc actually anything to do with Pop? He finished playing in '96, did he coach under Pop before going to the Magic?

I think he played 3 years with the Spurs, but maybe only 1 year under Pop. Pop was the GM when Doc first came to the Spurs.
Doc also did the color commentating for Spurs TV broadcast after he retired.

[SupremeGuy]

Phil without a stacked team = trashPretty much.

[Old School 44]

^You need great players to win a title. Just about every team that won a championship had one or more stars. The only team I can think of that didn't was maybe the 2004 Pistons.

[EVAY]

Man Phil not only had superstars playing for him, but he had the guy who developed the triangle offense next to him for every game with every team until the guy was something like 875 years old. Phil was/is just a jerk. He always talked trash about other teams, other coaches, other players, and bitched about refs before, during and after games.

Pop not only has players, coaches and FO people around the league following his example, but he is always developing new people as coaches, players and FO people. He also is consistently complimentary of other coaches, players and FO staffs. Look at how many front office people have come and gone, coaches come and gone, and players too. This should be Pop's biggest coaching year challenge because it is his first without Bud in forever.

[Kidd K]

Phil is the most overrated coach of all time, stacked rosters, GOAT players, never built a team, pretty much had rings handed to him.

I don't agree he's had rings "handed to him", but I agree with the rest. And I'm a big Jordan/Bulls fan too.

[Old School 44]

Man Phil not only had superstars playing for him, but he had the guy who developed the triangle offense next to him for every game with every team until the guy was something like 875 years old. Phil was/is just a jerk. He always talked trash about other teams, other coaches, other players, and bitched about refs before, during and after games.

Pop not only has players, coaches and FO people around the league following his example, but he is always developing new people as coaches, players and FO people. He also is consistently complimentary of other coaches, players and FO staffs. Look at how many front office people have come and gone, coaches come and gone, and players too. This should be Pop's biggest coaching year challenge because it is his first without Bud in forever.

Nice post and I agree 100% PJ was/is a jerk, but if you remove him from the equation, why isn't there more disciples of Tex Winter and the triangle throughout the league? That system won 11 titles. Did other assistants with Tex not learn it from him? Is it just too hard to teach? Do you need a transcendant 2 guard to run it? Did the game change?

[EVAY]

Nice post and I agree 100% PJ was/is a jerk, but if you remove him from the equation, why isn't there more disciples of Tex Winter and the triangle throughout the league? That system won 9 titles. Did other assistants with Tex not learn it from him? Is it just too hard to teach? Do you need a transcendant 2 guard to run it? Did the game change?

Good question, but I do indeed think that the game has changed quite a bit, and I think that the Spurs' system incorporates certain aspects of the triangle, and that IS being copied. Thanks for reminding me of Tex winters' name. I never thought that Jackson gave him enough credit.

One thing that has changed since the Michael Jordan era is the necessity of having multiple offensive weapons, whereas in Jordan's day a team could dominate with one super-player. Parity has really improved in the league and with that has come the requirement of having multiple weapons, something less important in a triangle offense. Jordan made Scottie Pippen look good. Nowadays, even LeBron or Tim have to have really good people surrounding them. In other words, a transcendent two is no longer enough.

[DMC]

Phil was a master at team selection.

[Aremid]

Phil will always be better than Pop. Phil was brilliant at manipulating refs, his own players, and his opposing players through the media. Look at how he turned a pussy like Gasol into a two time nba champion. Pop should be bashing guys like Geeen and Splitter the way Phil did that to Gasol and tony Kucoc. Those players were better off for it! Look at how he was a calming influence on dennis rodman. Pop is too scared to coach head cases he'd just trade them away. Also if pop complained to the media more often the spurs would get better calls.

[Johnny RIngo]

I doubt Phil would ever lose to Avery Johnson with homecourt advantage

[313]

I doubt Phil would ever lose to Avery Johnson with homecourt advantage
weren't they swept with HCA

[Cry Havoc]

PJ is like an ace AF pilot. He requires a 25 billion dollar airplane in order to shine.

Pop is like an AF engineer who happens to have his flight license and happens to be pretty damn good at flying.

apples and oranges IMO

I'm betting if you handed Pop Jordan and Pippen at the beginning of their career he probably would have won at least 5. Maybe 8, I bet Pop could have convinced Jordan not to try baseball. :lol

[Johnny RIngo]

weren't they swept with HCA

Rick Carlisle is a much better coach than AJ. Pop also lost to him with homecourt advantage in 2009. Beat in five game too...not much different than a sweep.

[lefty]

CIA Pop at work :D

- Kerr fucking things up in Phoenix as a GM

- all the other guys who became HC's with other teams are not gonna win shit


Pop weakening the rest of the NBA imo

[exstatic]

I really can't fault Phil for stacked rosters. People will argue Jordan didn't win anything until Phil got there. Same with Lakers and Shaq/Kobe.

Both teams had been to the conference finals right before Phil got there. It wasn't a huge leap.

[Old School 44]

Both teams had been to the conference finals right before Phil got there. It wasn't a huge leap.
Sure, both teams might have won some titles with or without Phil, but do you think if he never coached the Bulls and the Lakers, Doug Collins and Kurt Rambis would have 11 titles between them?

[KaiRMD1]

Phil is the luckiest coach in the history of the NBA, only being challenged by Flili-******. If Pop was given the amount of stars Phil had, god knows how many rings he would have. Instead, ol' sport was gifted Robinson, Duncan, Ginobili & Parker

[cd98]

Phil strikes me as a person that doesn't like people. Pop strikes me as a person that likes people. Therein lies the difference. Phil works well will egocentric players like Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe. Pop works well with humble players and less talented players to get the most out of them. Pop doesn't burn bridges. Phil does.

I can't argue with Phil's success. But I think most sportswriters and historians of the game will always favor Pop more because he was good to them. And I think because Pop didn't burn bridges, and because of his success in a small market, his assistants have been more successful getting jobs.

BTW, I think Shaw sucks as a coach. Just compare his record with that of Karl's. Denver was stupid thinking it was their talent that won all those games.

[5ToolMan]

I think he played 3 years with the Spurs, but maybe only 1 year under Pop. Pop was the GM when Doc first came to the Spurs.
Doc also did the color commentating for Spurs TV broadcast after he retired.

If I remember correctly, CIA Pop unofficially made David make Doc the coach of the Spurs during the lock-out period before the Spurs 1st NBA Title in 1999. There was a series of games at West Side Athletic Center in Houston that brought a few NBA's stars and many younger players in charity games to keep the players fresh. While most of the squads consisted of 2 - 3 players from several teams, the Spurs essentially played with their entire team. I always felt the time in Houston was a huge advantage for the Spurs.

[james evans]

Phil is the most overrated coach of all time, stacked rosters, GOAT players, never built a team, pretty much had rings handed to him.
up until june 19th of last year, i've always said phil was the most overrated coach in the history of professional sports. his rosters were indeed stacked, but even i don't think phil would have took out shaq, rodman, or grant at the end of a closeout game in the finals in which u are up by 3 or less. phil aint ever done that shit to try and prove his "genius". since that day, i haven't said a bad thing about phil jackson since..