General 2016 Free Agency Discussion

[Bruno]

2014 free agents list (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9947573/nba-free-agents-2014-2015)

Spurs' salary cap situation (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220819)

[Chinook]

My guess: Spurs re-sign Diaw, sign LJC and use the MLE to sign three prospects to long-term, Blair-like deals. They may also use their pick on a domestic player, but I think they stash him unless he's a steal.

Bertans, Denmon and Richards are my three, but they may bring in Thomas for Richards, as his ship may have sailed. See Mills moving on along with Baynes.

That sets up the team in great position for 2015, while giving a lot of young players time in Austin.

[ABC]

I don't see Denmon or Richards making it, but the overall plan sounds good, assuming Jean Charles and Bertans have recovered well. I think Baynes, De Colo, and Bonner will be gone (Bonner a coach?) and Diaw will be back. Mills, I would have agreed about before the season when I thought Joseph was a lock for backup point guard. Now I kind of think he'll be back.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i think mills is staying. i hope diaw is staying. i hope ljc comes over already. i imagine bertans and hanga are more likely. it's really on tim and manu to retire or not. i think big is the biggest spot to address this offseason. i like baynes and splitter. i think timmy is going another year. but i don't like ayers and baynes is foul trouble for sure.

[exstatic]

My guess: Spurs re-sign Diaw, sign LJC and use the MLE to sign three prospects to long-term, Blair-like deals. They may also use their pick on a domestic player, but I think they stash him unless he's a steal.

Bertans, Denmon and Richards are my three, but they may bring in Thomas for Richards, as his ship may have sailed. See Mills moving on along with Baynes.

That sets up the team in great position for 2015, while giving a lot of young players time in Austin.

None of those 3 players will likely ever play for the Spurs.

[Chinook]

None of those 3 players will likely ever play for the Spurs.

Can certainly see that. But I don't think it's set in stone, especially for Denmon. He was a good scorer and decent defender. While being bigger than Mills. If Patty moves on, Denmon is likely to be a candidate to take his spot.

In general, I thinks it's likely that the team uses its MLE on one-year deals or long-term deals they can get out of after a year. If any prospects really want to come over, it makes more sense to lock them up for cheap in case they blow up. Using the MLE to sign Denmon to a three-year contract doesn't mean he'd be any more than camp fodder.

But maybe they won't really care about 2015 cap space as much as we assume they do and sign a better player.

[Richie]

How much do you think we can get together for a free agent SF this year? Diaw should be our first priority, do you think he'd take 85m/2yr or 13m/3yr? If his deal starts around £4m, we use our pick on a draft and stash and dump Josephs £2m somewhere we could have around £6-7m.

Enough for Shawn Marion? He'd be excellent on the Spurs, would be a great player for Kawhi to learn from.

[Chinook]

I'm sure he'd love $85 Million over two years.

In all seriousness, I'd rather the team pay what makes sense to keep everybody, bring over LJC and their first, and then offer a one-year MLE deal to Marion. I think Dallas will outbid $7 Million if they really want to keep him. Not worth making that many moves to use cap space at all next season unless Duncan retires.

[Richie]

I'm sure he'd love $85 Million over two years.

In all seriousness, I'd rather the team pay what makes sense to keep everybody, bring over LJC and their first, and then offer a one-year MLE deal to Marion. I think Dallas will outbid $7 Million if they really want to keep him. Not worth making that many moves to use cap space at all next season unless Duncan retires.

True I think Dallas would out bid us, and he probably wouldn't want to move but you never know. I meant $8.5m for Diaw. As I said in another thread, I'm not sure he'll generate much interest on the market after his problems earlier in his career, plus he'll be 32 by the time free agency rolls around.

Another should could be Trevor Ariza. Defender, champion, can play the 2 or 3 and makes three pointers. Making $7.7m this year and has been on a losing team for a long while, maybe he'd be interested in winning something again. Would also make Green expendable as a possible trade chip as the front office might not want to pay him in 2015.

A wing rotation of Kawhi/Green/Ariza would be dominant defensively. Only worry would be on the other end and $7m might be too much to pay for a backup, even if he is a starting quality player.

[Namundy]

Thabo Sefolosha would be a nice lower cost alternative. Doesn't hit the three at a great % but this guy always seems to hit them when it counts. Great defender who won't need to adjust much to fit in as the backup SF. Would be awesome to take him from OKC.

[KawhiLeonard]

Josh smith is available should we move splitter+Bonner for him?

[Richie]

Thabo Sefolosha would be a nice lower cost alternative. Doesn't hit the three at a great % but this guy always seems to hit them when it counts. Great defender who won't need to adjust much to fit in as the backup SF. Would be awesome to take him from OKC.

Expect the Thunder to match any MLE level offer to Thabo, and we don't have enough cap room to offer more

[Godbama]

Any chance of pursuing Tyler Hansbrough?????
Spurs need some NASTY and some PSYCHO

[exstatic]

I'm sure he'd love $85 Million over two years.

In all seriousness, I'd rather the team pay what makes sense to keep everybody, bring over LJC and their first, and then offer a one-year MLE deal to Marion. I think Dallas will outbid $7 Million if they really want to keep him. Not worth making that many moves to use cap space at all next season unless Duncan retires.

You can't offer the MLE for just one year.

[exstatic]

Expect the Thunder to match any MLE level offer to Thabo, and we don't have enough cap room to offer more

Not unless they amnesty Perk. They've been rumored to do that...for the last 2 offseasons, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. They let Harden go over about $1.5M per season. They will NOT pay the tax under any circumstances. They have $68M committed for next year to only 11 players with no options or cuts available. That's straight on committed salary. I'm not sure they would even re-sign him for the $3.9M he made this year.

[Chinook]

You can't offer the MLE for just one year.

Yes you can.

[Baam]

I know it's kinda out of left field but I'd strongly consider going after Stephenson if it's even remotely possible...

Trade the first rounder along with Ayres to free more cap space... Maybe trade Beli/Green as well for additional cap relief and 2015 picks...

I mean there's no opening for our first rounder anyways save maybe a backup PG, but this is not a team for a rookie... Stephenson can be the backup PG anyway...

Kawhi Green
Stephenson Manu
TP Stephenson

That'd be incredible tbh :wow, small ball lineup could go toe to toe with GS and the Rockets any day... Let Mills the midget get overpaid by another team and hope Boris accept to sign for the MLE or something...

Bench defense skyrockets which is virtually the main achille heel right now... I mean you replace Mills Beli with Stephenson and you could look at the best defense in the league, maybe not quite with Duncan slowing down but still...

Manu replacement : check, """only""" have a to get a Duncan replacement at that point... Well we can't get it the draft so getting a young star on the team would help to sell an elite big on coming to SA... No one wants to play with only role players and tosb...

[Chinook]

Stephenson is like a more talented Green who has no idea how to play system basketball. He can do a lot of things well, but he can do none as well as he thinks he can. That's pretty much the opposite of what the Spurs need.

There are teams like Cleveland, Chicago and Memphis who could use a talent infusion. But the Spurs don't need to give up a pick, pay a who bunch of money and mess up their rotation for a guy whom Pop would hate.

[Richie]

Stephenson is like a more talented Green who has no idea how to play system basketball. He can do a lot of things well, but he can do none as well as he thinks he can. That's pretty much the opposite of what the Spurs need.

There are teams like Cleveland, Chicago and Memphis who could use a talent infusion. But the Spurs don't need to give up a pick, pay a who bunch of money and mess up their rotation for a guy whom Pop would hate.

Agree completely, Stephenson couldn't be less of a Spurs player. Would be a huge backward step to sign him, especially if it meant getting rid of excellent (and cheap) system players like Green, Beli and Mills.

[Baam]

Agree completely, Stephenson couldn't be less of a Spurs player. Would be a huge backward step to sign him, especially if it meant getting rid of excellent (and cheap) system players like Green, Beli and Mills.

Not sure about Stephenson but you on the other couldn't be more of a true Spurs fan, over valuing depth and one dimensional end of the bench scrubs that only ever help win regular season championships...

[Baam]

Stephenson is like a more talented Green who has no idea how to play system basketball. He can do a lot of things well, but he can do none as well as he thinks he can. That's pretty much the opposite of what the Spurs need.

There are teams like Cleveland, Chicago and Memphis who could use a talent infusion. But the Spurs don't need to give up a pick, pay a who bunch of money and mess up their rotation for a guy whom Pop would hate.

"More talented Green" lol, Stephenson can create off the dribble, he has nothing in common with Green aside from defense and he's better at it... I could see a comparison with Tyreke Evans or something...

[Chinook]

"More talented Green" lol, Stephenson can create off the dribble, he has nothing in common with Green aside from defense and he's better at it... I could see a comparison with Tyreke Evans or something...

Probably equal as a defender and worse shooter. Doesn't seem as smart and much less stable emotionally. He's more talented, but he's still not all that talented.

[Richie]

Not sure about Stephenson but you on the other couldn't be more of a true Spurs fan, over valuing depth and one dimensional end of the bench scrubs that only ever help win regular season championships...

It took us 28 seconds from the NBA Championship last year. Any of a dozen things could have happened differently, from grabbing a rebound to hitting a free throw, and we're reigning champs right now.

Only ever win regular season championships? Please...

[Mel_13]

Agree completely, Stephenson couldn't be less of a Spurs player.

This. Discussing Stephenson as a free agent target is pure fantasy. The Spurs would never pursue him.

[Richie]

This. Discussing Stephenson as a free agent target is pure fantasy. The Spurs would never pursue him.

Not only that, I feel like he's going to get massively overpaid this summer. He's a good player who can make things happen, but he's an unrestricted free agent and some team will offer him $10m/yr or more.

[Baam]

Not only that, I feel like he's going to get massively overpaid this summer. He's a good player who can make things happen, but he's an unrestricted free agent and some team will offer him $10m/yr or more.

10M a year for Stephenson would be an absolute bargain, with the Spurs he'd become an All Star for sure, look at the SG position right now and look at what he can do (which is everything)... TP Stephenson Green Kawhi Diaw would be a great core to compete in the post Duncan/Manu era...

"true" Spurs fan logic : TVag who got hacked successfully at age 27 and was the worst player in the Finals is worth 10M but that'd be a massive mistake to give that kind of money to triple double threat like Stephenson who hasn't hit his prime yet... But but but you don't understand he's a "true Spurs"... Ok then...

[Drom John]

Currently Stephenson is 28th in WS.
The 28th highest salary this year is $14,100,538 (Tyson Chandler).

[Mel_13]

Currently Stephenson is 28th in WS.
The 28th highest salary this year is $14,100,538 (Tyson Chandler).

Lance will get paid. Probably overpaid. Fortunately, not by the Spurs.

[benefactor]

:lol Baam...why do you like cancers so much? First JR Smith now Stephenson?

[Chinook]

:lol Baam...why do you like cancers so much? First JR Smith now Stephenson?

Eric Gordon, too.

[Baam]

Why do I like talented players, well you saw in the OKC game why, then again you're probably happy enough with regular season championships so it's all good :lol

[Chinook]

Why do I like talented players, well you saw in the OKC game why, then again you're probably happy enough with regular season championships so it's all good :lol

Yeah, because Smith, Gordon and Stephenson have to rent out other people's hands to have enough room for all their rings.

[Baam]

As opposed to the great Derrick Williams?...

Guards don't win championships but Smith and Stephenson can play both ends at a level way way way higher that Mills Beli... I always hated Mills and Beli failed to convince... Reggie Jackson who plays both ends is 100 times more valuable than them IN THE POs... But hey what do I know... I'm just a random troll on a message board...

I stand by the Stephenson idea even more than before the Thunder game... We can resume the debate after the POs...

[Mel_13]

As opposed to the great Derrick Williams?...

Guards don't win championships but Smith and Stephenson can play both ends at a level way way way higher that Mills Beli... I always hated Mills and Beli failed to convince... Reggie Jackson who plays both ends is 100 times more valuable than them IN THE POs... But hey what do I know... I'm just a random troll on a message board...

I stand by the Stephenson idea even more than before the Thunder game... We can resume the debate after the POs...

There's no outcome to the playoffs that makes Stephenson an FA target for the Spurs.

[Chinook]

As opposed to the great Derrick Williams?...

Guards don't win championships but Smith and Stephenson can play both ends at a level way way way higher that Mills Beli... I always hated Mills and Beli failed to convince... Reggie Jackson who plays both ends is 100 times more valuable than them IN THE POs... But hey what do I know... I'm just a random troll on a message board...

I stand by the Stephenson idea even more than before the Thunder game... We can resume the debate after the POs...

I wanted to trade Bonner for Williams. That's completely different from trading Green or Beli for the right to pay Stephson eight figures. It would have filled a position of semi-need with a talented prospect for the price of almost nothing. At best, Stephenson would have been a lateral move and most likely, he would hurt both sides of the court with his system-busting ways.

Stephenson will never make sense for these Spurs. If the Big Three and Pop all depart after this season, maybe they sign him to lead the team to the lottery.

[Baam]

:lol Sure. The post Duncan era will be about getting another system buster like Manu anyways, might as well get him one year early to put us over the top...

[Baam]

Triple double in a win over OKc for Lance Stephenson 17pts 10rebs 11ast 4to 1blk, beast... Carrying GHill and Hibbert who combined for 3pts to a win... On 70%FG as well...

[Mel_13]

There's no outcome to the playoffs that makes Stephenson an FA target for the Spurs.


Triple double in a win over OKc for Lance Stephenson 17pts 10rebs 11ast 4to 1blk, beast... Carrying GHill and Hibbert who combined for 3pts to a win... On 70%FG as well...

And there's no collection of game stats that makes Stephenson an FA target for the Spurs.

[bigfan]

I asked somewhere else and somebody deleted it, what about Biedrins? Is he totally washed up? The guy is a 7 footer and still in his 20's and was just cut a couple of weeks ago. May be better than Baynes?

[Richie]

I asked somewhere else and somebody deleted it, what about Biedrins? Is he totally washed up? The guy is a 7 footer and still in his 20's and was just cut a couple of weeks ago. May be better than Baynes?

Biedrins got paid and gave up on the game. Honestly, to shoot 24% from the FT line over the past 4 years (20-84 FTM-FTA) is just laziness. $54m for 6 years work, dude flat out robbed Golden State.

[Mal]

Spurs will use MLE on some vet. Gasol, Marion, Humphries, Ariza, maybe Paul Pierce if he fails in Brooklyn

[Richie]

Spurs will use MLE on some vet. Gasol, Marion, Humphries, Ariza, maybe Paul Pierce if he fails in Brooklyn

Marion, Ariza or Pierce would be excellent, but I don't see either Marion or Pierce leaving this summer. I think we need to be looking at 2015 free agency and Ariza will want a longer contract than just 1 year.

If we could get Marion for a year at MLE money, I'd be ecstatic.

[Chinook]

I'd still rather use the MLE on overseas prospects. Looking at the bottom of the rotation, the team could use some fresh blood. If they want to use the rest for a Beli-esque contract, I'd be content. But they shouldn't try to buy a rotation player. That hasn't worked in years.

[exstatic]

Marion, Ariza or Pierce would be excellent, but I don't see either Marion or Pierce leaving this summer. I think we need to be looking at 2015 free agency and Ariza will want a longer contract than just 1 year.

If we could get Marion for a year at MLE money, I'd be ecstatic.

The last player the Spurs signed, intending rotation play, that was north of 30 years old was Dice in 2009. That ship has sailed.

[Chinook]

The last player the Spurs signed, intending rotation play, that was north of 30 years old was Dice in 2009. That ship has sailed.

And thank god for that. The team needs to keep focusing on upside and growing their own talent.

[Baam]

457334135036473345

[Richie]

http://cbafaq.com/blog/?p=304

Jump in cap this year and next year predicted. If cap is $66m in 2015 as predicted then we could have a lot of cash to lure free agents

[Chinook]

457334135036473345

Stein being disingenuous as hell. The cap was always expected to jump at least $4 Million.

[Chinook]

http://cbafaq.com/blog/?p=304

Jump in cap this year and next year predicted. If cap is $66m in 2015 as predicted then we could have a lot of cash to lure free agents

It woulf be enough to offer a full max if the Spurs play their cards right. I don't see why they'd blow it up if any of the Big Three want to stay.

[BackHome]

When was the last time the Spurs were able to get a top free agent come to us?

[Richie]

When was the last time the Spurs were able to get a top free agent come to us?

People really overrate destination IMO. The only time the spurs have had enough money was Kidd in 03.

Regardless, I could see us getting Gasol in 2015. Gasol/Parker/Kawhi is a contender if Pop stays and we keep our role players. Hell, maybe Timmy comes back one more year of we get Marc to share the load.

[99 Problems]

People really overrate destination IMO. The only time the spurs have had enough money was Kidd in 03.

Regardless, I could see us getting Gasol in 2015. Gasol/Parker/Kawhi is a contender if Pop stays and we keep our role players. Hell, maybe Timmy comes back one more year of we get Marc to share the load.


I'm in on Marc G. Vision of him, his brother Pau taking a pay cut to play in a championship with him b4 going off to play Euro and TD putting in 22 min a night.

[Mel_13]

People really overrate destination IMO. The only time the spurs have had enough money was Kidd in 03.

True.

[BackHome]

I would love Gasol I think he would thrive on this team that puts team first vs ego "Kobe" first. If we could get him and then bring over Bertrans and Hanga that would be a hell of an upgrade to our team. Even more so I would look at trading CJ and either try to move up in the first or get a high second round pick.

[Cklbmk]

I'd love to see Spurs go after AK47. He's gotta opt out imo.

Another interesting target to me would be Udoh.

I'd settle for Marion

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

Jae Crowder is a free agent this offseason, I think he could be a solid backup to Kawhi. Young, tough, and a lot of upside, plus he seems to love the corner three.

[Chinook]

Jae Crowder is a free agent this offseason, I think he could be a solid backup to Kawhi. Young, tough, and a lot of upside, plus he seems to love the corner three.

I actually like Crowder a fair deal, but he's not a free agent until 2015 unless the Mavs decline his option.

[Chinook]

Anyone still interested in Ed Davis? He's an RFA next year, but the Grizzlies are in a horrible cap situation. They pretty much can't afford to keep anyone unless they trade someone away or if ZBo opts out and re-signs at a reduced salary. I don't think Davis will get huge money in the off-season (but you never know since he was really hyped), but he's probably out of the Spurs' range barring a trade (assuming Duncan returns and the Spurs don't blow it up).

[exstatic]

Anyone still interested in Ed Davis? He's an RFA next year, but the Grizzlies are in a horrible cap situation. They pretty much can't afford to keep anyone unless they trade someone away or if ZBo opts out and re-signs at a reduced salary. I don't think Davis will get huge money in the off-season (but you never know since he was really hyped), but he's probably out of the Spurs' range barring a trade (assuming Duncan returns and the Spurs don't blow it up).

Advanced stats love the kid. I'm not familiar with his personality or BBIQ.

[Cklbmk]

Anyone still interested in Ed Davis? He's an RFA next year, but the Grizzlies are in a horrible cap situation. They pretty much can't afford to keep anyone unless they trade someone away or if ZBo opts out and re-signs at a reduced salary. I don't think Davis will get huge money in the off-season (but you never know since he was really hyped), but he's probably out of the Spurs' range barring a trade (assuming Duncan returns and the Spurs don't blow it up).

I'd like to see him on the magic more. Think he'd fit better. I rather use Baynes and use Kawhi as a small ball 4 tbh

[CGD]

Heck yes, if spurs can grab Davis this summer do it. Let him learn the system and play with Tim for a year before seeing what he has.

Not sure it's fair or reasonable even, but Memphis see him as their ZBo replacement for the future. you have to think he has the talent. Heck even if he can be a Terrance Jone (rockets player) type contributor next year I'd take it.

[Mal]

Gortat is gonna get paid. For his sake better he lands in Dallas.

[benstanfield]

Curious how much y'all think Hayward is gonna earn this offseason? Jazz can match any offer sheet but I doubt they go over 4 years 50m.

[Chinook]

Curious how much y'all think Hayward is gonna earn this offseason? Jazz can match any offer sheet but I doubt they go over 4 years 50m.

I'd be all over him if I were Charlotte. Good, young two-guards are hard to find in today's NBA, and they need one of those desperately.

[benstanfield]

I'd be all over him if I were Charlotte. Good, young two-guards are hard to find in today's NBA, and they need one of those desperately.

If the free agent signing were before the draft I'd be all over him if I were RC. Dgreen and our first could probably move us up to a mid first rounder.

[Chinook]

If the free agent signing were before the draft I'd be all over him if I were RC. Dgreen and our first could probably move us up to a mid first rounder.

First, the Spurs can't afford to sign Hayward. Secondly, I don't think many teams in the late-lottery/early post-lottery really want Green over their pick. Thirdly, I think Green is better than Hayward. I don't consider Gordon a huge upgrade to Danny when looking at all factors.

[exstatic]

First, the Spurs can't afford to sign Hayward. Secondly, I don't think many teams in the late-lottery/early post-lottery really want Green over their pick. Thirdly, I think Green is better than Hayward. I don't consider Gordon a huge upgrade to Danny when looking at all factors.

Yeah, overpaying someone like Hayward is what fucks up your cap. He's not a difference maker, not even to the degree of Kawhi. I don't like his trend lines. His 3 point percentages vary wildly, and they're headed downwards: 47,34,41,30. Yeah, he's not a defender, and shot 30% from 3 last year. I'll take a pass.

Honestly, as averse as I am to signing players over 30, I'd go after Sefalosha, who just turned. He's had a horrible contract year, which is why he'd be cheap. Last season, he shot 48% overall and 42% from downtown.

[Richie]

Yeah, overpaying someone like Hayward is what fucks up your cap. He's not a difference maker, not even to the degree of Kawhi. I don't like his trend lines. His 3 point percentages vary wildly, and they're headed downwards: 47,34,41,30. Yeah, he's not a defender, and shot 30% from 3 last year. I'll take a pass.

Honestly, as averse as I am to signing players over 30, I'd go after Sefalosha, who just turned. He's had a horrible contract year, which is why he'd be cheap. Last season, he shot 48% overall and 42% from downtown.

I like the idea of Thabo but it would kill any free agency plans we had for 2015. Personally I'd rather roll the dice and try for Gasol next year than sign Sefelosha this summer

[exstatic]

I like the idea of Thabo but it would kill any free agency plans we had for 2015. Personally I'd rather roll the dice and try for Gasol next year than sign Sefelosha this summer

Thabo F'd up this year. He can probably be had for $2M or so. That shouldn't F up any plans for 2015.

[Richie]

Thabo F'd up this year. He can probably be had for $2M or so. That shouldn't F up any plans for 2015.

If we could get him for a 1 year deal I'd be all over it. I doubt we could get him for 2m just for a single year but I'd throw him a $4m/1yr deal and see what we can get out of him. If he can get his shooting stroke back he's incredibly valuable.

[Chinook]

Thabo F'd up this year. He can probably be had for $2M or so. That shouldn't F up any plans for 2015.

I don't really agree there. I think he screwed himself out of long-term money, but I doubt he'd go to the Spurs for so little. OKC would still pay him more than that, as they still need someone with his skill-set. Rather, I think Thabo will sign a one-year deal at around his current salary.

[Chinook]

But regardless, I don't want Thabo unless one of the top-four wings are gone. He's pretty much a poor man's Green at this point. If some people's suggestions of Danny being traded to move up in the draft come true, then perhaps Sef is a decent option to replace him. If Beli is moved, maybe Sef could back up Kawhi. But no way I use the MLE on a one-year deal for a wing.

[Richie]

But regardless, I don't want Thabo unless one of the top-four wings are gone. He's pretty much a poor man's Green at this point. If some people's suggestions of Danny being traded to move up in the draft come true, then perhaps Sef is a decent option to replace him. If Beli is moved, maybe Sef could back up Kawhi. But no way I use the MLE on a one-year deal for a wing.

Obviously if we bring over LJC or draft a defensive wing then hhe's not needed, but Thabo is an excellent 3&D player whenhis sshot is falling. A 1 year deal as insurance for injury or foul trouble is good value at $4m.

I don't see what else we can do with the MLE if we want to keep cap space for next summer. Most useful players will want multi year deals.

Add to that the fact that it would really hamper okcs defense it seems like a no brainer to me

[Baam]

Kawhi - Sefo at the 3 would be pretty incredible... Can't really help but feel uneasy that when Kawhi is in foul trouble you have Beli checking in...

[exstatic]

I don't really agree there. I think he screwed himself out of long-term money, but I doubt he'd go to the Spurs for so little. OKC would still pay him more than that, as they still need someone with his skill-set. Rather, I think Thabo will sign a one-year deal at around his current salary.

OKC tried to dump him at the deadline. That's gotta hurt. They want his salary gone. They still have another year of Perk on the books.

Remember, OKC is the team that apparently salary dumped Harden over 1-2M per year. They have drawn the line in the sand, and absolutely will NOT PAY THE TAX.

[Chinook]

Obviously if we bring over LJC or draft a defensive wing then hhe's not needed, but Thabo is an excellent 3&D player whenhis sshot is falling. A 1 year deal as insurance for injury or foul trouble is good value at $4m.

I don't see what else we can do with the MLE if we want to keep cap space for next summer. Most useful players will want multi year deals.

Add to that the fact that it would really hamper okcs defense it seems like a no brainer to me

I'd like the Spurs to add a defensive forward as much as anyone here. But Sef is more of a wing, anyway. I couldn't imagine him playing the small-ball four, which is really the spot where the Spurs need another defender. I'd hate for Sef to take minutes from the current wing rotation.

If the Spurs are looking for a fifth wing, I'd much rather it be a young one like Bertans who doesn't threaten the rotation while also having upside. Jean-Charles would be ideal, but he's staying over until at least 2015.

[Richie]

OKC tried to dump him at the deadline. That's gotta hurt. They want his salary gone. They still have another year of Perk on the books.

Remember, OKC is the team that apparently salary dumped Harden over 1-2M per year. They have drawn the line in the sand, and absolutely will NOT PAY THE TAX.

Won't the tax be going up along with the salary cap this summer? Assuming they won't be near the tax evenwwith him.

Almost makes it worse for the Thunder. Not sure if the cap rise was predictable, but they could afford to keep Harden at the max and stay under the tax with current projections

[Chinook]

OKC tried to dump him at the deadline. That's gotta hurt. They want his salary gone. They still have another year of Perk on the books.

Remember, OKC is the team that apparently salary dumped Harden over 1-2M per year. They have drawn the line in the sand, and absolutely will NOT PAY THE TAX.

If the Spurs can close out the WCF, I think we'll see OKC go into the tax next year. Simply put, they don't have enough to get over the hump (mostly due to coaching, but still, their depth is terrible). They'll need to add an MLE-caliber player to their rotation, but none of the realistic MLE available are wings of Sef's mold. I think they'll probably try to sign the best big that they can and keep Thabo in his role. Things could chance in the draft of course, but as of now, that would be their best strategy.

[Chinook]

Won't the tax be going up along with the salary cap this summer? Assuming they won't be near the tax evenwwith him.

Almost makes it worse for the Thunder. Not sure if the cap rise was predictable, but they could afford to keep Harden at the max and stay under the tax with current projections

Nah, they'll actually be up against the tax again this year. People thinking the Thunder could keep Harden and stay under the tax with the cap increases aren't looking at the numbers correctly. OKC would be absolutely adjacent to the tax had they amnestied Perk and kept Snaggle-Tooth. We're talking about $59M/$75M (tax for next year) devoted to four players.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs can close out the WCF, I think we'll see OKC go into the tax next year. Simply put, they don't have enough to get over the hump (mostly due to coaching, but still, their depth is terrible). They'll need to add an MLE-caliber player to their rotation, but none of the realistic MLE available are wings of Sef's mold. I think they'll probably try to sign the best big that they can and keep Thabo in his role. Things could chance in the draft of course, but as of now, that would be their best strategy.

Fairy tale thinking. I think if they go over the tax to sign roster pieces, the public will riot, hang Clayton Bennett, and burn the body for letting Harden go. You don't back off that stance once you've salary dumped an All Star player.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs can close out the WCF, I think we'll see OKC go into the tax next year. Simply put, they don't have enough to get over the hump (mostly due to coaching, but still, their depth is terrible). They'll need to add an MLE-caliber player to their rotation, but none of the realistic MLE available are wings of Sef's mold. I think they'll probably try to sign the best big that they can and keep Thabo in his role. Things could chance in the draft of course, but as of now, that would be their best strategy.

They do have two first rounders.

[Chinook]

Fairy tale thinking. I think if they go over the tax to sign roster pieces, the public will riot, hang Clayton Bennett, and burn the body for letting Harden go. You don't back off that stance once you've salary dumped an All Star player.

People will be more upset if OKC can't find a way to win before Durant hits FA. They need legit mid-level talent to do that. They'll have to man up and get it.

[Baam]

Fairy tale thinking. I think if they go over the tax to sign roster pieces, the public will riot, hang Clayton Bennett, and burn the body for letting Harden go. You don't back off that stance once you've salary dumped an All Star player.

That's what they'll do if Durant walks because he doesn't feel like his FO did everything they could to help him win a ring.. '

[Chinook]

They do have two first rounders.

Yeah, which is why it's borderline impossible for them to stay under the tax next season. They also have to be concerned that Jackson and Adams are the only recent draft picks in their rotation. There's nothing to say they'll get the help they need in June.

[Baam]

Well the Spurs don't have any great rookie contract once Kawhi is extended which is why they could/should really trade for another pick, these contracts are extremely important nowadays...

[Chinook]

Well the Spurs don't have any great rookie contract once Kawhi is extended which is why they could/should really trade for another pick, these contracts are extremely important nowadays...

The Spurs are one of the teams for which they matter the least, as they have a core locked up with no huge contracts on the books. They'd become important again in 2015 if the Spurs max out Kawhi and sign another max player. Teams that are nearly taxed-out like OKC and Indiana depend on the deals (which is why the Pacers trading away two of them was idiotic).

That's not to say the Spurs wouldn't take a great rookie contract, obviously. But they don't have any salary pressure to prioritize it.

[exstatic]

Yeah, which is why it's borderline impossible for them to stay under the tax next season. They also have to be concerned that Jackson and Adams are the only recent draft picks in their rotation. There's nothing to say they'll get the help they need in June.

They have 11 players under contract for next year, and are at about $68M. If the tax is as rumored around $75M, two picks in the 20s won't come close to putting them over.

[Chinook]

They have 11 players under contract for next year, and are at about $68M. If the tax is as rumored around $75M, two picks in the 20s won't come close to putting them over.

You're right. But they clearly don't trust their ability to develop their rookies. That's why they'll probably go for some vets, who will cost money. Accounting for their pick-holds, they should have about an MLE's worth of salary to give if they want to stay under the tax. It's going to be hard for them to both address their clear weaknesses, replace Sef AND stay under the tax. I honestly don't think OKC will be able to pull it off, and if they prioritize the tax again, they'll probably end up wasting another one of Durant's years.

[Richie]

The Thunder absolutely could afford to have kept Harden if they were willing to amnesty Perkins. Durant/Russ/Harden/Ibaka will earn $62m next year. They'd comfortably be under the cap with the rest of their contracts next year (no Adams or Lamb too).

I don't think the tax is the reason, they were just top cheap to amnesty Perkins. Even so, they should have paid someone a load of picks to take him if it meant keeping Harden.

[Chinook]

I don't see how you think having only $13 Million to spend on nine to 11 players is fine. I don't see that as being feasible, especially if they want to supplement then with any vets. That doesn't even account for the fact that the max deals increase faster than the cap.

[Uriel]

Great read on Kevin Love's free agency and the Spurs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/68557/kevin-love-unlikely-suitor

[exstatic]

Great read on Kevin Love's free agency and the Spurs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/68557/kevin-love-unlikely-suitor

I doubt the Spurs would be interested. He quite literally plays no defense. It would be like re-booting the 2010 team all over. If we got 8-10 points behind, it would be over.

[Richie]

I don't see how you think having only $13 Million to spend on nine to 11 players is fine. I don't see that as being feasible, especially if they want to supplement then with any vets. That doesn't even account for the fact that the max deals increase faster than the cap.

They'd still have Collison, Jackson and PJIII signed through next year for a total of 5.5m and a first round pick this year around $1m. That'd give them 8 players and still keep them 6.5m below the tax, plenty for a few vet min contracts to fill out the roster.

Even if they get too close to the tax in sub sequent years (although Durant would only have 1 year left after next) they would have had 2 more years of Harden, likely a title or two and could still move Harden if they want.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't trade Splitter for Love. It's not that Love isn't the better player (by far). It's that Love would be no where near as effective without a player of Splitter's defensive talent next to him. A Parker/Green/Leonard/Love/Splitter SL is incredibly balanced on both sides of the ball. If the Spurs could add a suitable bench around Diaw, then they could make some noise for years to come.

[Richie]

Great read on Kevin Love's free agency and the Spurs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/68557/kevin-love-unlikely-suitor

I'd rather throw the kitchen sink at Marc Gasol than Love

[Chinook]

They'd still have Collison, Jackson and PJIII signed through next year for a total of 5.5m and a first round pick this year around $1m. That'd give them 8 players and still keep them 6.5m below the tax, plenty for a few vet min contracts to fill out the roster.

Even if they get too close to the tax in sub sequent years (although Durant would only have 1 year left after next) they would have had 2 more years of Harden, likely a title or two and could still move Harden if they want.

Perry Jones isn't really an asset right now. I don't think he'd be something they'd count on. They'd have to hope their vet-min players were the types who could play big roles and spot-start and not the ones like Fisher who's a glorified mascot. That's the problem. They'd have no way to add the MLE talent they need to fill out their roster. Miami supplemented their stars with six mid-level players (two with cap space, two with Bird rights and two with the mMLE). OKC wouldn't have the ability to add one.

[Chinook]

I really don't like Gasol as an FA target. The Spurs need to go in a different direction with their PF once Tim retires. The two-C system is antiquated and only works now due to Tiago's quickness, which is expected to decline as he ages. The Spurs won't be able to be the same team they are now when they lose 21. It's not going to even be close.

[jesterbobman]

I wouldn't trade Splitter for Love. It's not that Love isn't the better player (by far). It's that Love would be no where near as effective without a player of Splitter's defensive talent next to him. A Parker/Green/Leonard/Love/Splitter SL is incredibly balanced on both sides of the ball. If the Spurs could add a suitable bench around Diaw, then they could make some noise for years to come.

This is basically my thinking on Love. I also think it's easier to get him to sign and play with the lineup above than to trade for him with Splitter(and other assets: LJC, a couple first round picks) and say Baynes/Love/Kawhi/Green/TP with none of prospects or future firsts to give him more help. San Antonio clearly isn't the most attractive city for players, and staying for a slightly below title caliber team just doesn't seem worth it.

That lineup would be excellent. People complain about Kawhi not getting enough post ups, but if the double comes and the result is a reset or kicking out to Tim for a mid range shot, it's not a great result. If that turns out to Kick out to Love for a 3 the offence is devastating.

[Richie]

Perry Jones isn't really an asset right now. I don't think he'd be something they'd count on. They'd have to hope their vet-min players were the types who could play big roles and spot-start and not the ones like Fisher who's a glorified mascot. That's the problem. They'd have no way to add the MLE talent they need to fill out their roster. Miami supplemented their stars with six mid-level players (two with cap space, two with Bird rights and two with the mMLE). OKC wouldn't have the ability to add one.

They simply wouldn't need to if they had their big 4 w/ Collinson and Jackson. Maybe another big ala Baynes but they'd go small as often as possible. That roster filled with minimum players is a championship winner

[Richie]

This is basically my thinking on Love. I also think it's easier to get him to sign and play with the lineup above than to trade for him with Splitter(and other assets: LJC, a couple first round picks) and say Baynes/Love/Kawhi/Green/TP with none of prospects or future firsts to give him more help. San Antonio clearly isn't the most attractive city for players, and staying for a slightly below title caliber team just doesn't seem worth it.

That lineup would be excellent. People complain about Kawhi not getting enough post ups, but if the double comes and the result is a reset or kicking out to Tim for a mid range shot, it's not a great result. If that turns out to Kick out to Love for a 3 the offence is devastating.

I'd take Splitter/Gasol over Love/Baynes. Marc can hit the mid range like Timmy and if anything could be a better passer than Duncan so we wouldn't miss a beat offensively. He's a better defender too so while we'd obviously be losing a lot in the locker room and leadership, I don't think we lose much on the floor.

Splitter/Gasol/Kawhi could be the best defensive front court in the league and is by far the best 2 way front court IMO.

I also think Gasol is far more attainable.

[Chinook]

They simply wouldn't need to if they had their big 4 w/ Collinson and Jackson. Maybe another big ala Baynes but they'd go small as often as possible. That roster filled with minimum players is a championship winner

That roster got beat by the Heat in five games. They probably would have lost last year as well and may well have lost this year. Miami is a horrible match-up for OKC. Add to that that OKC would have a major weakness to post bigs (even bigger than they currently do) and I wouldn't say they'd be a lock at all.

While being strong on top is essential for being a contender, you also need a strong, reliable 5-8. Even if Collison and an undeveloped Jackson were good enough to be in there, they'd have no one else behind them. With the way Westbrook and Ibaka have been injured, I don't think they would be very strong at all.

Also, had OKC kept Harden and amnestied Perkins, they'd be over the tax THIS year unless they traded away Sef and replaced him with a min player or did away with Collins in the first place. We don't even have to hypothesize about future years.

[Richie]

That roster got beat by the Heat in five games. They probably would have lost last year as well and may well have lost this year. Miami is a horrible match-up for OKC. Add to that that OKC would have a major weakness to post bigs (even bigger than they currently do) and I wouldn't say they'd be a lock at all.

While being strong on top is essential for being a contender, you also need a strong, reliable 5-8. Even if Collison and an undeveloped Jackson were good enough to be in there, they'd have no one else behind them. With the way Westbrook and Ibaka have been injured, I don't think they would be very strong at all.

Also, had OKC kept Harden and amnestied Perkins, they'd be over the tax THIS year unless they traded away Sef and replaced him with a min player or did away with Collins in the first place. We don't even have to hypothesize about future years.

Ask them again they'd gladly dump self and perk for Harden. There's no way we beat that Thunder lineup.

Also its crazy to talk about Ibaka and Russ as injury problems. This is the first significant time Ibaka has ever missed and Westbrook suffered a freak injury after never missing a game going back to high school. By the same token, Lebron could tear an ACL and Miami wouldnt make the ECF. Injuries happen.

Sure they're a bad matchup for Miami, but they're getting worse and the Thunder were a young team only getting better. Maybe the wouldn't win a title, but they'd have a much better chance than they do now IMO.

[Chinook]

Ask them again they'd gladly dump self and perk for Harden. There's no way we beat that Thunder lineup.

Also its crazy to talk about Ibaka and Russ as injury problems. This is the first significant time Ibaka has ever missed and Westbrook suffered a freak injury after never missing a game going back to high school. By the same token, Lebron could tear an ACL and Miami wouldnt make the ECF. Injuries happen.

Sure they're a bad matchup for Miami, but they're getting worse and the Thunder were a young team only getting better. Maybe the wouldn't win a title, but they'd have a much better chance than they do now IMO.

Westbrook's and Ibaka's injuries aren't hypotheticals. They actually did happen, and the Thunder actually are struggling to deal with them. They would struggle even more if all they had were min players behind them. No team can handle a major injury to a star player, but contenders shouldn't completely fall apart because they lost their third-best player. OKC's margin of error is razor thin as it is, and it'd be microscopically thin had they gotten rid of all their mid-level contracts for another max.

A Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Ibaka core is no doubt scary. But it also has some major weaknesses. I think they'd be a big handful for the Spurs offensively, but there's no team in the league with the horses to contain that lineup like San Antonio. Defensively, though, they'd be a sieve. Perkins guarding Duncan changed the 2012 series. With only Collins on the team to guard Tim, I don't think it'd be pretty. Harden or Westbrook would have to guard Parker, and neither of them are the defenders 2012 Sef was. Even if they (probably Russ) could do it, that'd cut down on their offensive production. Even on offense, Westbrook/Durant/Harden would still fight for shots. KD would not have hit his MVP stride. There'd likely be no Action Jackson. They'd only have one strong screener instead of three.

A smart team like the 2014 Spurs, especially with a mature Medium Three, would have a very strong chance to beating that OKC. Talent-wise, the Thunder would be far superior. But I don't think they'd be able to manifest that unless they happened to get a better coach along the way and some big help with vet-min deals.

[xmas1997]

I wouldn't trade Splitter for Love. It's not that Love isn't the better player (by far). It's that Love would be no where near as effective without a player of Splitter's defensive talent next to him. A Parker/Green/Leonard/Love/Splitter SL is incredibly balanced on both sides of the ball. If the Spurs could add a suitable bench around Diaw, then they could make some noise for years to come.

How or what could the Spurs offer that they would take to get the team you mention above?
I think they would have to part with at least Green. TD and Manu are untradable, they will retire here.
That just leaves Baynes, Belli, Mills (would like to keep him), Daye, Bonner, Ayers, Joseph, a few European stashes, and their three 2014 draft picks.
I would like to see this happen.

[Chinook]

How or what could the Spurs offer that they would take to get the team you mention above?
I think they would have to part with at least Green. TD and Manu are untradable, they will retire here.
That just leaves Baynes, Belli, Mills (would like to keep him), Daye, Bonner, Ayers, Joseph, a few European stashes, and their three 2014 draft picks.
I would like to see this happen.

We're talking about the Spurs acquiring him in 2015 free agency. No need for a trade.

[ace3g]

David Pick @IAmDPick
(https://twitter.com/IAmDPick)Colorado alumnus and Israeli-League No. 1 scorer Carlon Brown (@CarlonAutentico (https://twitter.com/CarlonAutentico/)) is going to camp with the San Antonio Spurs.

<font color="#292D33"><span style="font-family: Arial">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7P2Sv3DTQw

[Chinook]

Seems like a fine candidate for a glue guy/13th man. Would prefer Denmon in that role, but still intrigued about Brown. I hope he plays in the summer league.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

What nine players do you really need if your big four is Durant, Harden, Ibaka, Westbrook?

13 mill is fine. Buy 3 2nd rounders, draft your late 1st. You've got 10 mill for 5. Take the best summer league standout and 4 cheap fisher-like vets.

But I actually love the harden deal. I don't know how everybody says okc isn't deep. Outside they're big 3... Jackson, Adams, Lamb, Jones, Roberson all have potential. Then Butler, Perkins, Fisher, Sefalosha, Collison are all Bonner+ level role players.

They're problem is Brooks and mental toughness.

[Chinook]

What nine players do you really need if your big four is Durant, Harden, Ibaka, Westbrook?

13 mill is fine. Buy 3 2nd rounders, draft your late 1st. You've got 10 mill for 5. Take the best summer league standout and 4 cheap fisher-like vets.

But I actually love the harden deal. I don't know how everybody says okc isn't deep. Outside they're big 3... Jackson, Adams, Lamb, Jones, Roberson all have potential. Then Butler, Perkins, Fisher, Sefalosha, Collison are all Bonner+ level role players.

They're problem is Brooks and mental toughness.

I dunno how you could make this post right after seeing that OKC couldn't beat the Spurs relying on just four guys. Also note that there would have been no Perkins or Adams to check Duncan.

[eDizzle20]

Top priorities for the Spurs this offseason...

1. Re-sign Diaw- he's a Swiss army knife, he does everything well
2. Sign Kawhi to an extension- face of the franchise going forward
3. Re-sign Patty- his scoring off the bench this season was huge
4. Draft another offensive facilitator- I personally like Bogdanovic or Clarkson
5. Draft or sign an actual SF to back up Kawhi- I like Inglis in the draft or signing Sefolosha

[DrunkTXLabrat]

The thunder didn't win and it's obvious they've got problems. And im with you in celebration about that. But I think you underestimate the beauty of what it is they've got right.

[JonNOKC]

Top priorities for the Spurs this offseason...

1. Re-sign Diaw- he's a Swiss army knife, he does everything well
2. Sign Kawhi to an extension- face of the franchise going forward
3. Re-sign Patty- his scoring off the bench this season was huge
4. Draft another offensive facilitator- I personally like Bogdanovic or Clarkson
5. Draft or sign an actual SF to back up Kawhi- I like Inglis in the draft or signing Sefolosha

I think Thabo could be a great fit in backup role. He battled injury, his shot was just broken this year, and I think the Thunder decision to not have any talks about extension/future role with team going into this season messed with his confidence. You gotta think Chip can help him with his shot (guy was 40%+ from 3 in 2012 and 2013), getting healthy and playing reduce minutes should allow him to return to being a pretty good defender (guy will be 31 next year - old but not washed up), and in the Spurs system shooters get the ball consistently in specific spots where they can be effective.

The best part is there is a good chance his price tag dropped considerably after this season/playoffs

[ace3g]

Sefolosha is friends with Parker

[CGD]

eDizzle20's list is spot on, though I'm not sure you do the Leonard extension now unless the team thinks they are locking in a bargain. Thabo would be a solid back up SF.

I think Deng is going to get lower offers than he thinks he's going to get in the open market. Wonder if full MLE would be enough for him?

[AFBlue]

eDizzle20's list is spot on, though I'm not sure you do the Leonard extension now unless the team thinks they are locking in a bargain. Thabo would be a solid back up SF.

I think Deng is going to get lower offers than he thinks he's going to get in the open market. Wonder if full MLE would be enough for him?

Lock up Kawhi now before he becomes a restricted free agent next year, forcing the Spurs to match a team that overpays. Probably not a bargain, but at least a fair market deal.

[Chinook]

Lock up Kawhi now before he becomes a restricted free agent next year, forcing the Spurs to match a team that overpays. Probably not a bargain, but at least a fair market deal.

But what's "fair" to you? A max deal isn't really all that much (although I think it would overpaying by a sizable margin), so it wouldn't really hurt to let him test the market. We've gone over this in other threads, but it could actually help the team to do so. Honestly, I think $11M-12M a year seems like a good deal for both sides. But if he has a really good Finals, there's no way he doesn't take the max.

[CGD]

Lock up Kawhi now before he becomes a restricted free agent next year, forcing the Spurs to match a team that overpays. Probably not a bargain, but at least a fair market deal.

im waiting to see what happens with Gordon Hayward of the Jazz. I get that Leonard is the better player, but whether a team overpays for Gordon this summer may heighten the spurs' desire to get a deal done early.

Like chinook, I agree that 11-12m sounds reasonable for both parties. Somewhere between Paul George's starting salary (13.7m) and Haywood's future deal (10m?) may be a good landing spot.

[Drom John]

I dunno how you could make this post right after seeing that OKC couldn't beat the Spurs relying on just four guys. Also note that there would have been no Perkins or Adams to check Duncan.

"Couldn't" does not equal "didn't." I saw a 4-0 regular season sweep, 2 playoff blowout wins, and an overtime loss. OKC very much "could" have won this year and then taken home court advantage in the finals. One year more experience for Adams, and one end of rotation shooter in the Austin Daye price range could be enough, particularly adding a even a slight Brooks adjustment on resting players. Just removing the negativity of Fisher might be enough. Yes, I have the Spurs winning their second in a row in 2015, but once again, the tenth best team in the West will be good and OKC will be better than that tenth team.

[Richie]

eDizzle20's list is spot on, though I'm not sure you do the Leonard extension now unless the team thinks they are locking in a bargain. Thabo would be a solid back up SF.

I think Deng is going to get lower offers than he thinks he's going to get in the open market. Wonder if full MLE would be enough for him?

Deng will be starting at a minimum 10m next year. There are plenty of teams with cap space whom he could help. I think he'd be a great fit on the Hawks for example.

[exstatic]

Deng will be starting at a minimum 10m next year. There are plenty of teams with cap space whom he could help. I think he'd be a great fit on the Hawks for example.

Nobody is going to pay a 30 YO injury prone SF who can't shoot $10M. Danny Ferry isn't that stupid.

[Mr. Body]

Any thoughts on Shaun Livingston?

He's likely too expensive and doesn't shoot the three, but I was impressed by him with the Nets this year. He and Miles Plumlee were the only two guys who seemed to play hard every minute they were in.

[CGD]

I like Shaun Livingston a lot, but some team is going to pay him well this summer. I love the fact that he's overcome such a terrible injury. Shows a lot of character in my book.

[playblair]

474907671767044097

[Chinook]

I like Ivan Johnson. He'd be a nice addition for a camp.

[exstatic]

Ivan Johnson is FUCKING NUTS. He's a serious basket case.

[ace3g]

Travis Peterson ‏@TPeterson42 (https://twitter.com/TPeterson42) 5h (https://twitter.com/TPeterson42/status/477914267778166784) First workout done with San Antonio!!! Resting and get ready for it again tomorrow!! #Spurs (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Spurs?src=hash)

[Biggems]

I would be ok with Sefolosha......he needs to regain confidence with his shot, Chip can help with that. He gives effort on the defensive end. And, as another poster previously stated, he has a rapport with Parker. Also, because of a poor postseason and some recent injuries, we could probably get him at a discounted rate..........

keeping Diaw and Mills are priority #1. Then signing Sefolosha would be #2.

If someone like Kyle Anderson is added in the draft, I really would like our roster for next season.

PG: Parker, Mills, Joseph
SG: Green, Manu, Belinelli,
SF: Leonard, Sefolosha, Daye
PF: Duncan, Diaw, Anderson
C: Splitter, Baynes, Bonner (or someone else)

[xmas1997]

Chip might go to Golden State.

[Mr Bones]

I think the #1 free agent target for the Spurs this summer should be Josh McRoberts. He's a 3 pt shooter, he plays defense, and he had the highest assist rate of any power forward in the NBA this season: 4.3 apg and 6.8 assists per 48 minutes. His assist to turnover ratio is an incredible 4.01-- again, the best among PFs by a large margin: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards

A second team consisting of McRoberts, Diaw, and Ginobili would be one of the best passing line-ups in the league. Paired with Duncan, he'd be an upgrade over Bonner as a stretch 4. And most importantly, he's affordable...

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think the #1 free agent target for the Spurs this summer should be Josh McRoberts. He's a 3 pt shooter, he plays defense, and he had the highest assist rate of any power forward in the NBA this season: 4.3 apg and 6.8 assists per 48 minutes. His assist to turnover ratio is an incredible 4.01-- again, the best among PFs by a large margin: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards

A second team consisting of McRoberts, Diaw, and Ginobili would be one of the best passing line-ups in the league. Paired with Duncan, he'd be an upgrade over Bonner as a stretch 4. And most importantly, he's affordable...

McRoberts would be another great steal from the Bobcats... nee Hornets.

[ceperez]

I'd take Splitter/Gasol over Love/Baynes. Marc can hit the mid range like Timmy and if anything could be a better passer than Duncan so we wouldn't miss a beat offensively. He's a better defender too so while we'd obviously be losing a lot in the locker room and leadership, I don't think we lose much on the floor.

Splitter/Gasol/Kawhi could be the best defensive front court in the league and is by far the best 2 way front court IMO.

I also think Gasol is far more attainable.

Hope the championship convinces Gasol to go with the Spurs. Although my gut tells me he'll sign with Memphis.

[Uriel]

Pau Gasol has said that he'll consider 4 teams this summer—Spurs, Bulls, Grizzlies, and Lakers.

The Bulls would have to amnesty Boozer to have enough cap space to make a run at Gasol. And even then, they'd probably have to sign him at a discounted rate.

The Grizzlies' making a run at Pau Gasol is predicated on the contract situation of Zach Randolph. He would have to opt out of his current contract and test free agency. And even then, it's fairly certain that keeping him while be priority A1 for Memphis.

That leaves just the Lakers and the Spurs. The Lakers, who own his Bird Rights, of course have more money to throw at Gasol. But Gasol has said that, at this stage of his career, he's more interested in winning championships than earning money. And what better team to make a title run with than the reining NBA champion San Antonio Spurs?

It seems to me that Gasol could easily wind up on the Spurs this offseason. It's just a matter of whether the front office is interested in signing him.

[Mr. Body]

McRoberts would be a good pick. We need a skullcrushing type, a banger.

I can't see Gasol coming. It's like Karl Malone after '03 - because we won it all he went elsewhere, didn't want to look like a pathetic ringchaser.

[ceperez]

I don't think the spurs have the room to sign anyone for a decent sum of money.

If Gasol asks for 10m, then he'll be too expensive.

I think Spurs may be able to sign Vince Carter. Vince still looks like he has a little left in the tank.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I don't want Gasol. Spurs don't really need his post play and he'd be the worst defender on the team.

[Cry Havoc]

I don't want Gasol. Spurs don't really need his post play and he'd be the worst defender on the team.

Gasol is underrated on defense, and is great against the pick and roll. He would make us instantly a legitimate 10 deep with a true 2nd squad that could be a top 5 team in the East. That's pretty insane. Even if his minutes went down and he became more of a matchup big in the playoffs he could give us a lot of good minutes.

Spurs could also take a look at Spencer Hawes (doubtful) but I also like Lavoy Allen as a project big down the line. However, he probably doesn't fit in with our immediate contention picture.

[Chinook]

Gasol sucks defending the PnR.

[Chinook]

Pau needs to go to OKC. Gasol for Perkins/Jackson is one of the two fundamental trades that needs to happen this season along with Wade for Bledsoe.

[MaNu4Tres]

Gasol is underrated on defense, and is great against the pick and roll. He would make us instantly a legitimate 10 deep with a true 2nd squad that could be a top 5 team in the East. That's pretty insane. Even if his minutes went down and he became more of a matchup big in the playoffs he could give us a lot of good minutes.

Spurs could also take a look at Spencer Hawes (doubtful) but I also like Lavoy Allen as a project big down the line. However, he probably doesn't fit in with our immediate contention picture.


Spurs will probably be interested in Pau Gasol at a discount or Channing Frye. IMO

[Richie]

Pau needs to go to OKC. Gasol for Perkins/Jackson is one of the two fundamental trades that needs to happen this season along with Wade for Bledsoe.

I don't like either of those trades for the Thunder or Suns. After that showing in the Finals, Bledsoe has so much more value than Wade. I don't know why a young, up tempo team like the Suns would want a Dwyane Wade who can barely play 50 games a season.

As a Spurs fan I'd love to see OKC get Gasol, he's a sieve on defending the pick and roll, they'd lose their only legit 3rd perimieter option offensively and Perkins, for all his faults, is still a great post defender against Duncan.

[Richie]

I think the #1 free agent target for the Spurs this summer should be Josh McRoberts. He's a 3 pt shooter, he plays defense, and he had the highest assist rate of any power forward in the NBA this season: 4.3 apg and 6.8 assists per 48 minutes. His assist to turnover ratio is an incredible 4.01-- again, the best among PFs by a large margin: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards

A second team consisting of McRoberts, Diaw, and Ginobili would be one of the best passing line-ups in the league. Paired with Duncan, he'd be an upgrade over Bonner as a stretch 4. And most importantly, he's affordable...

McRoberts would be a great signing if we let Bonner go. My only worry is again preserving cap space for the summer of 2015, if the front office thinks we can get a top player from that free agent class (Bosh, Love, Gasol etc...) then we need to prioritise that.

I'd happily offer McRobers an $8m/2yr deal with the second year as a team option. Would give us flexibility for 2015 and he'd still get a good enough money to make it worth the likely scenario of only playing one year.

[Chinook]

I don't like either of those trades for the Thunder or Suns. After that showing in the Finals, Bledsoe has so much more value than Wade. I don't know why a young, up tempo team like the Suns would want a Dwyane Wade who can barely play 50 games a season.

As a Spurs fan I'd love to see OKC get Gasol, he's a sieve on defending the pick and roll, they'd lose their only legit 3rd perimieter option offensively and Perkins, for all his faults, is still a great post defender against Duncan.

They'd have Ibaka to clean up the defense. Gasol is essentially Perkins on D but is still a very talented offensive big. They'd lose their third perimeter scorer, but they'd gain a much better inside presence. They're going to have to replace Jackson by 2015 regardless, so they may as well do it in this draft and get something for him.

Bledsoe is really overrated. He's a small combo-guard with rudimentary PG skills. He's bound to disappoint whomever signs him, but he'd excel best in Miami where James plays the point and where Eric's energy and athleticism is needed.

Wade'd give Phoenix a declining star who knows what it takes to win a ring. That's incredibly important. Dwyane would also do well with that medical staff and those shooters. The Suns really shouldn't keep both Bledsoe and Dragic and may lose Eric anyway. If they can replace him with a proven winner, that'd be huge.

[Richie]

They'd have Ibaka to clean up the defense. Gasol is essentially Perkins on D but is still a very talented offensive big. They'd lose their third perimeter scorer, but they'd gain a much better inside presence. They're going to have to replace Jackson by 2015 regardless, so they may as well do it in this draft and get something for him.


They would definitely game some inside scoring, but it would cripple their defence. Whatever Pau gives on offence he would take away at least as much on the other end. There's no way the Thunder get past Memphis this year if they got rid of Jackson and Perkins for Gasol. You'd be putting way too much pressure on Ibaka and if you pull him away from the basket with a stretch 4 like we saw in our series it'd become a layup line or open 3's.



Bledsoe is really overrated. He's a small combo-guard with rudimentary PG skills. He's bound to disappoint whomever signs him, but he'd excel best in Miami where James plays the point and where Eric's energy and athleticism is needed.

Wade'd give Phoenix a declining star who knows what it takes to win a ring. That's incredibly important. Dwyane would also do well with that medical staff and those shooters. The Suns really shouldn't keep both Bledsoe and Dragic and may lose Eric anyway. If they can replace him with a proven winner, that'd be huge.

[/quote]

I agree Bledsoe is overrated, but he's better than Wade right now. Going forward Bledsoe will improve while Wade will continue to decline, not to mention the Suns aren't a talented enough team to give Wade the rest he needs (~30 games off) and still make the playoffs. Not much point in having a 'proven winner' in their ranks, especially paying him $40m over 2 years, if they finish outside the 8th seed.

The Suns won't lose Bledsoe, they'll match any offer he gets this summer which will almost certainly be overpaying him.

I agree Bledsoe would be great with Lebron, but it'd be highway robbery for the Heat to get a young, athletic 24 year old for a broken down, 32 year old Wade with bad knees.

[Andthentherewas21]

Richie and Chinook, both of you have been in favor of preserving capspace for 2015, just wondering what your thoughts are on the Spurs realistically attracting a top-tier free agent. Obviously there are a lot of unknowns between now and then, but I just don't see Love or Aldridge coming to SA. Aldridge is already apart of an up-and-coming team and there is little impetus to leave (other than being a big in POR) assuming they can continue improving and fine something resembling a bench, plus POR will be able to offer more money. As far as Love, chances are he gets traded to a destination of his choosing this year so why would he leave (and they will be able to offer more money). M. Gasol seems like an ok but not great fit for the personnel that will be left assuming Duncan and Manu retire. Bosh is intriguing but I still have my reservations about him. I guess my main points are:

1. In 2015 the Spurs could lose Pop, Duncan, and Manu. Don't you think that is likely to scare FA (potential loss of the system, spiritual leaders of the team gone, ect)
2. Parker will be a year older and he is already starting to get those lingering injuries that make players a bit slower, do you think it is likely to impact how FAs view the Spurs in terms of winning potential
3. Chris Bosh will be on the wrong side of 30 and M. Gasol will be close, making neither long-term partners for Kawhi and the Spurs young core. Do you think that is a consideration?

Personally I'm for bringing back the current team even if it impacts the 2015 FA prospects, both for sentimental reasons (minus Ayres, I love this team) and for more practical reasons (I'm more pessimistic in my evaluation of the Spurs potential to acquire FA in 2015). But I'd appreciate an opposing viewpoint

[xmas1997]

Wade should retire IMHO, the bad knees will never improve.

[lmbebo]

Wade should retire IMHO, the bad knees will never improve.

He's got $40 million reasons not too.

[xmas1997]

He's got $40 million reasons not too.

You have a strong point there!
:lol

[Richie]

Richie and Chinook, both of you have been in favor of preserving capspace for 2015, just wondering what your thoughts are on the Spurs realistically attracting a top-tier free agent. Obviously there are a lot of unknowns between now and then, but I just don't see Love or Aldridge coming to SA. Aldridge is already apart of an up-and-coming team and there is little impetus to leave (other than being a big in POR) assuming they can continue improving and fine something resembling a bench, plus POR will be able to offer more money. As far as Love, chances are he gets traded to a destination of his choosing this year so why would he leave (and they will be able to offer more money). M. Gasol seems like an ok but not great fit for the personnel that will be left assuming Duncan and Manu retire. Bosh is intriguing but I still have my reservations about him. I guess my main points are:

1. In 2015 the Spurs could lose Pop, Duncan, and Manu. Don't you think that is likely to scare FA (potential loss of the system, spiritual leaders of the team gone, ect)
2. Parker will be a year older and he is already starting to get those lingering injuries that make players a bit slower, do you think it is likely to impact how FAs view the Spurs in terms of winning potential
3. Chris Bosh will be on the wrong side of 30 and M. Gasol will be close, making neither long-term partners for Kawhi and the Spurs young core. Do you think that is a consideration?

Personally I'm for bringing back the current team even if it impacts the 2015 FA prospects, both for sentimental reasons (minus Ayres, I love this team) and for more practical reasons (I'm more pessimistic in my evaluation of the Spurs potential to acquire FA in 2015). But I'd appreciate an opposing viewpoint

When it comes to possible free agents, I agree with your evaluation of Aldridge. Before they drafted Lillard I thought he'd be a lock to leave Portland, now I don't see why he would leave. I also agree with you about Love, I think he will force a trade somewhere that he would like to resign, perhaps Boston or Houston.

Bosh is an interesting one because I think it all comes down to Lebron. I doubt Bosh wants to lead a Miami team in to the lottery if Lebron leaves, so it's all up in the air. The more I look at his production, the more I like him though. He's not the defender Gasol is but he's not a complete liability like Love, and he can hit the 3.

I'm highest on Gasol and I think he's most achievable. I expect another 2nd round exit for Memphis next year and think Gasol is most likely to hit free agency having taken Memphis as far as he can. He'd also be the cheapest as I think he could be had for around $15m if we're a legit contender. He's almost exactly the same player that Duncan is right now, an excellent passer and he hits the mid range and defends better than Timmy. He doesn't have the same post game but he can score down low if he has to. A perfect fit IMO.

As for you're three points, I'll give my opinion. Firstly this is all assuming Duncan and Manu retire, if they don't and want to play for more than the minimum we don't have cap room for any of the bigs I mentioned. As long as Pop stays I think we're still a desirable destination.

Parker is aging but if we expect him to break down we might as well trade him for picks as soon as Duncan retires. He's become an elite mid range shooter and has shot 36% from 3 over the past two years. He's only just turned 32 a few weeks ago and as long as Pop is here I expect him to spend the rest of his career under 30mpg. Put simply, I'm not worried about Parker as long as Pop is here.

As for Gasols age, he came in to the league at 23 and is only 30 next summer. He doesn't have the miles on his body compared to others at his age so I'm not worried about that. To put it in to perspective, Gasol has played 16,000 career minutes including playoffs in the NBA. Duncan at the same age had played 30,000 and Lebron has played 40,000.

I also want to bring back the same team, I'm just hoping we can get Mills/Diaw back for a combined $8m. We can have their contracts go down for the 2015 summer and back up the next year, maximising their money and minimising our cap hit. This would mean not signing someone with the MLE this year, or if we do making sure it's only for one year.

My salary wishes might be a bit optimistic, but if we can get Mills/Boris for a combined $8m this year, Green back for $4m and Parker/Leonard combined for $25m in 2015, we'd be left with around $20m to sign a free agents after taking Splitter's $8.5m in to account and a $65m cap. If we could get Gasol for $15m that gives us $5m wiggle room to pay some players more or if the cap is lower. We'd also be bringing back the whole team to defend next year.

Edit: Again, sorry this got really long.

[xmas1997]

I agree about Marc, especially over his brother Pau.

[Chinook]

Richie and Chinook, both of you have been in favor of preserving capspace for 2015, just wondering what your thoughts are on the Spurs realistically attracting a top-tier free agent. Obviously there are a lot of unknowns between now and then, but I just don't see Love or Aldridge coming to SA. Aldridge is already apart of an up-and-coming team and there is little impetus to leave (other than being a big in POR) assuming they can continue improving and fine something resembling a bench, plus POR will be able to offer more money. As far as Love, chances are he gets traded to a destination of his choosing this year so why would he leave (and they will be able to offer more money). M. Gasol seems like an ok but not great fit for the personnel that will be left assuming Duncan and Manu retire. Bosh is intriguing but I still have my reservations about him. I guess my main points are:

1. In 2015 the Spurs could lose Pop, Duncan, and Manu. Don't you think that is likely to scare FA (potential loss of the system, spiritual leaders of the team gone, ect)
2. Parker will be a year older and he is already starting to get those lingering injuries that make players a bit slower, do you think it is likely to impact how FAs view the Spurs in terms of winning potential
3. Chris Bosh will be on the wrong side of 30 and M. Gasol will be close, making neither long-term partners for Kawhi and the Spurs young core. Do you think that is a consideration?

Personally I'm for bringing back the current team even if it impacts the 2015 FA prospects, both for sentimental reasons (minus Ayres, I love this team) and for more practical reasons (I'm more pessimistic in my evaluation of the Spurs potential to acquire FA in 2015). But I'd appreciate an opposing viewpoint

It's important for you to understand that we are talking about the Spurs using cap space in 2015 under the assumption that Duncan and Ginobili retire but the rest of the starters, Diaw and perhaps Mills (about whom half the debate is focused). The Spurs in such a scenario would not be looking for a young star to grow with Leonard but rather a player at his peak to make the team competitive during the final years of Parker's and Diaw's careers and during Green's and Splitter's relative primes. That's why LA and Bosh are targets over younger players.

I won't go through all my justifications for the potential free agents in great detail, since I have been doing so for a year now in various threads. I'll just summarize here:

Aldridge is not young enough to endure the growing pains of Portland. He's getting ready to sign his last big deal in 2015. If the Blazers are outclassed again in the playoffs, I think LA would play the market, and under such a scenario, the Spurs would have a very strong chance to land him. If Aldridge doesn't extend this season, I think he has a great chance to changing teams.

I agree about Love, but you never know. I wouldn't bank on him (and don't even really want him), but if he wanted to come over, I wouldn't turn him away.

Bosh will be the same age as Splitter, three years younger than Parker and Diaw and two years older than Green. He fits in age-wise. Based on pure basketball ability, he's probably the best the Spurs could hope for, and like Aldridge, if he's on the market in 2015, I think he'd consider the Spurs strongly.

Signing Marc Gasol would be a mistake for the Spurs so long as they plan to pair him with Splitter. I don't believe people really understand how the Spurs' offense works and why starting two centers would wreck Kawhi's development and lower the team's upside.

As to your points: 1: The Spurs may keep Pop, and if that's the case, I think they would be favorites to land any big-time free agent. If Leonard keeps developing, the Spurs supporting cast would easily be the best in the league. 2: This is a primary reason why Gasol would be a poor target. The Spurs will not be able to run their current offense for much longer, and they need a four who can carry an offense. FAs did just see that the Spurs can win with Tony being marginalized, though, so I don't think Parker getting older would hurt SA's prospects too much. 3: Answered at the top. The Spurs won't get a player in free agency who will be around for a decade like Leonard will hopefully be. This is about 2015-2019. 2020-2025 will have to take care of itself later.

I wish the Spurs would have traded for their next power-forward some time in the last two years. They had the contracts to do so with Jack's, Bonner's and De Colo's expirings. Had they acquired even an Ilyasova or Thad Young player, I'd feel better about letting 2015's cap space vanish. But I have no faith that the Spurs can put together a contending team after Duncan retires if they don't have enough cap space in 2015 to acquire an impact player at the four.

[4down]

I like Fredette if they are priced out of keeping Patty Mills

[Chinook]

They would definitely game some inside scoring, but it would cripple their defence. Whatever Pau gives on offence he would take away at least as much on the other end. There's no way the Thunder get past Memphis this year if they got rid of Jackson and Perkins for Gasol. You'd be putting way too much pressure on Ibaka and if you pull him away from the basket with a stretch 4 like we saw in our series it'd become a layup line or open 3's.

No. Gasol is pretty much Duncan on defense. Fine shot-blocker and post defender, but horrible at the PnR. Ibaka would only play well as PnR defending big, but he'd also be available to help out on Pau getting beat. Sure, a team can counter with a stretch-four, but I don't think you realize how much better offensively Gasol is than any big the Thunder have. He is still the type of player who can force doubles. Against the Spurs, he'd draw Duncan and would probably go toe-to-toe with Tim, all while giving OKC better passing, spacing and shot-blocking than Perkins is currently providing.

Of course OKC has to replace Jackson, but they have to do that no matter what. That's what they have their MLE/$7.5 Million TE for.


I agree Bledsoe is overrated, but he's better than Wade right now. Going forward Bledsoe will improve while Wade will continue to decline, not to mention the Suns aren't a talented enough team to give Wade the rest he needs (~30 games off) and still make the playoffs. Not much point in having a 'proven winner' in their ranks, especially paying him $40m over 2 years, if they finish outside the 8th seed.

The Suns won't lose Bledsoe, they'll match any offer he gets this summer which will almost certainly be overpaying him.

I agree Bledsoe would be great with Lebron, but it'd be highway robbery for the Heat to get a young, athletic 24 year old for a broken down, 32 year old Wade with bad knees.

He might be better than Wade (might be, since I think Dwyane's career would have an Indian summer if he were to go to Phoenix), but he's not Wade. He has no rings or championship experience. If the Suns are serious about becoming contenders, they need to start bringing in the right players to get them there. That may not be the only move they'll need to make the playoffs. They have the assets to bring in another strong player to help bolster their hopes. But it's silly to just hope for internal growth to be enough to get you over the hump. I can't think of a recent champion that didn't have season vets with loads of deep playoff experience guiding them. Maybe 2004 Detroit?

The Suns have the cap space to bring Wade in another not feel it. It would make much more sense to me for them to pay Wade $41 Million over two years than for them to play Bledsoe $60 Million over four.

As far as their depth goes, they were able to endure Bledsoe's injury (he missed 39 games total last year) by sliding Gerald Green into the two-guard spot. They finished a game outside the eighth seed last year, and I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do better with a more-experienced supporting cast.

[4down]

Sorry, double post. Looking hopeful that Patty stays...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It seems people have really started to underestimate Pau Gasol's game due to his last couple of years in LA. IMO he'll be a major coup for whoever gets him and will rejuvenate his career. If the Thunder get him they become instant favorites. He's the closest skill-wise to Tim Duncan in the league nowadays and his game does not rely on athleticism, he'll age well and give his new team a great player.

[Richie]

Of course OKC has to replace Jackson, but they have to do that no matter what. That's what they have their MLE/$7.5 Million TE for.

OKC don't have to replace Jackson at all. He'll command less than $10m in restricted free agency and with Perkins contract coming off the books and the luxury tax heading towards $80m they'll comfortably be able to afford him.

For Gasol to OKC, sure they get inside scoring but there would be no issue putting Duncan or Splitter on him with Diaw guarding Ibaka as Serge is just a jumpshooter. Pau would get blown by on the pick and roll every time and Diaw/Bonner gets open 3's all game long. If Pau is on the stretch 4, he's way too slow to close out on shooters.

Here's a video showing how poor Gasol is in pick and roll defence, and how easily we scored even when he had an elite shot blocker behind him in Howard. Also it's not like it's some regular season game, this is the kind of defence he's showing in the playoffs when he was 2 years younger than today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q2hlhP0Vso

[Richie]

The Thunder also have $70m committed for next year, they might not even be able to offer the full MLE without going in to the luxury tax.

Edit: Did a quick calculation based on numbers from cbafaq, if the cap is $62m then the luxury tax level will be $74.1m which means the Thunder will only have $4.2m to spend this summer before entering the tax, and that's excluding any draft picks they bring in.

Not an exact calculation because there are some other factors, but it's a rough figure

[Chinook]

OKC don't have to replace Jackson at all. He'll command less than $10m in restricted free agency and with Perkins contract coming off the books and the luxury tax heading towards $80m they'll comfortably be able to afford him.

For Gasol to OKC, sure they get inside scoring but there would be no issue putting Duncan or Splitter on him with Diaw guarding Ibaka as Serge is just a jumpshooter. Pau would get blown by on the pick and roll every time and Diaw/Bonner gets open 3's all game long. If Pau is on the stretch 4, he's way too slow to close out on shooters.

Here's a video showing how poor Gasol is in pick and roll defence, and how easily we scored even when he had an elite shot blocker behind him in Howard. Also it's not like it's some regular season game, this is the kind of defence he's showing in the playoffs when he was 2 years younger than today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q2hlhP0Vso

*Insert explanations about Gasol going into a shell the last two years here *

Duncan was even worse in the Dallas series this year. Hell, Perkins is almost that bad, and he's still in his 20s. OKC also has better perimeter defenders than that Lakers team did, and with Ibaka, they'd be fine. That's especially true with Duncan slowing down on his PnP game.

OKC can't pay three perimeter players $46 Million combined in 2015. They sure can't pay $26 Million on PGs. And don't even bring up starting Jackson. That'd be a terrible long-term move.

[Chinook]

The Thunder also have $70m committed for next year, they might not even be able to offer the full MLE without going in to the luxury tax.

Edit: Did a quick calculation based on numbers from cbafaq, if the cap is $62m then the luxury tax level will be $74.1m which means the Thunder will only have $4.2m to spend this summer before entering the tax, and that's excluding any draft picks they bring in.

Not an exact calculation because there are some other factors, but it's a rough figure

I've long been of the belief that OKC will have to go into the tax soon if they're serious about winning a title. That said, trading Perkins and Jackson for Gasol on a deal averaging perhaps $10M/year would save them money next season and allow them to use the full MLE without going into the tax.

Also, Sham says the Thunder are closer to $67 Million. The $70 Million must include picks, and those may be traded or stashed.

[Richie]

OKC can't pay three perimeter players $46 Million combined in 2015. They sure can't pay $26 Million on PGs. And don't even bring up starting Jackson. That'd be a terrible long-term move.

Jackson and Westbrook are perfectly capable of playing together as they have shown. Also I used $10m as a generous figure, there's no way he's getting paid that. Anything between $5m-$7m would be a good deal for both him and OKC, I don't see anyone paying him more in restricted free agency.

[Chinook]

Jackson and Westbrook are perfectly capable of playing together as they have shown. Also I used $10m as a generous figure, there's no way he's getting paid that. Anything between $5m-$7m would be a good deal for both him and OKC, I don't see anyone paying him more in restricted free agency.

Jackson and Westbrook playing together isn't a problem in a vacuum. But a Jackson/Westbrook/Durant combo would not work long term. No defenders and too many people needing the ball in their hands. OKC's offense needs better role-players, not another star.

And I think Jackson will get at least $8 Million like Teague got. That's too much to pay a back up.

[Richie]

I've long been of the belief that OKC will have to go into the tax soon if they're serious about winning a title. That said, trading Perkins and Jackson for Gasol on a deal averaging perhaps $10M/year would save them money next season and allow them to use the full MLE without going into the tax.

Also, Sham says the Thunder are closer to $67 Million. The $70 Million must include picks, and those may be traded or stashed.

Sham says they are at $68.8m which I think is not including Thabeets unguaranteed contract, which Bball Reference (this site I was looking at) seems to have included.

Honestly I hope you're right, if the Thunder give away a Spurs killer in Jackson and their only good post defender in Perkins for Gasol I'll be ecstatic. The Spurs would demolish that team.

[kobyz]

What about Donta Smith? A formar Atlanta hawks draft pick, 31 years old, consider one of the best player in Europe, a point forword, good all around skills, player in the mold of Boris Diew, not as good shooting, better athletic ability at this point... If Diew not coming back, does Spurs looking at him as replacment?

[exstatic]

I've long been of the belief that OKC will have to go into the tax soon if they're serious about winning a title. That said, trading Perkins and Jackson for Gasol on a deal averaging perhaps $10M/year would save them money next season and allow them to use the full MLE without going into the tax.

Also, Sham says the Thunder are closer to $67 Million. The $70 Million must include picks, and those may be traded or stashed.

If they were serious about winning a title, Harden would still be there. I can tell you one thing they are serious about: not paying the tax.

[Mel_13]

Observer source: Hornets forward Josh McRoberts has opted out of his contract and will be an unrestricted free agent in July.
https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/479314557840531456

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Observer source: Hornets forward Josh McRoberts has opted out of his contract and will be an unrestricted free agent in July.
https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/479314557840531456

Yes. A shooter, a passer, a decent defender. It'll give the Spurs another option for a stretch four to give Diaw some rest.

[bluebellmaniac]

Observer source: Hornets forward Josh McRoberts has opted out of his contract and will be an unrestricted free agent in July.
https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/479314557840531456

Bobcats?

[Andthentherewas21]

Bobcats?

They officially changed back to the Hornets a couple of weeks ago.

[Chinook]

I like McRoberts. Not only has he become pretty skilled, but he is also a good athlete (he was a great one only a few years ago).

The Spurs don't need a messiah, but regardless, Josh for the MLE would be a blessing.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Josh for the MLE would be overpaying.

[Baam]

Josh for the MLE would be overpaying.

As long as he could contribute it'd be fine, much better than splitting the MLE between Beli and Ayres and getting two useless players as a result...

[yavozerb]

As long as he could contribute it'd be fine, much better than splitting the MLE between Beli and Ayres and getting two useless players as a result...

Your right, Beli was useless...:rolleyes

[Baam]

Your right, Beli was useless...:rolleyes

Well to be fair he was quite useful to the Heat and to Dallas.

Did you forget that Dallas game where he was -30 in like 15 minutes :wakeup...

[Mr Bones]

Josh McRoberts quietly did some things very well this year in Charlotte. He was #1 in assists per 48 minutes amongst all power forwards: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards
Boris Diaw was #3 in this category.

McRoberts was also #1 in assist to turnover ratio amongst power forwards, by a large margain. Again, Diaw was #3 in the league.

McRoberts is essentially a younger, taller, more athletic version of Diaw. Both are great passers, neither are especially good rebounders. Their blocks and steals numbers are similar. Diaw had a better 3pt%, but also played for a better team and probably had better looks over the course of the season.

I think the mid-level exception for him would be a fair deal for the Spurs.

[4down]

Josh McRoberts quietly did some things very well this year in Charlotte. He was #1 in assists per 48 minutes amongst all power forwards: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards
Boris Diaw was #3 in this category.

McRoberts was also #1 in assist to turnover ratio amongst power forwards, by a large margain. Again, Diaw was #3 in the league.

McRoberts is essentially a younger, taller, more athletic version of Diaw. Both are great passers, neither are especially good rebounders. Their blocks and steals numbers are similar. Diaw had a better 3pt%, but also played for a better team and probably had better looks over the course of the season.

I think the mid-level exception for him would be a fair deal for the Spurs.

Just a guess but i think he will command more than mle

[T Park]

Well to be fair he was quite useful to the Heat and to Dallas.

Did you forget that Dallas game where he was -30 in like 15 minutes :wakeup...

did you forget the playoff games against Portland and game 3 vs Miami? fucking morons

[T Park]

I like Fredette if they are priced out of keeping Patty Mills

Ugh. Fredette sucks.

[Raven]

It seems people have really started to underestimate Pau Gasol's game due to his last couple of years in LA. IMO he'll be a major coup for whoever gets him and will rejuvenate his career. If the Thunder get him they become instant favorites. He's the closest skill-wise to Tim Duncan in the league nowadays and his game does not rely on athleticism, he'll age well and give his new team a great player.

okc can't sign him.

[Raven]

Yes. A shooter, a passer, a decent defender. It'll give the Spurs another option for a stretch four to give Diaw some rest.

he's been making threes all year, but trust me on that, mcbob is not a stretch 4. He is one my favourites though.

[Raven]

Josh McRoberts quietly did some things very well this year in Charlotte. He was #1 in assists per 48 minutes amongst all power forwards: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards
Boris Diaw was #3 in this category.

McRoberts was also #1 in assist to turnover ratio amongst power forwards, by a large margain. Again, Diaw was #3 in the league.

McRoberts is essentially a younger, taller, more athletic version of Diaw. Both are great passers, neither are especially good rebounders. Their blocks and steals numbers are similar. Diaw had a better 3pt%, but also played for a better team and probably had better looks over the course of the season.

I think the mid-level exception for him would be a fair deal for the Spurs.

nah i don't agree, he is very athletic and a great per minute rebounder, he is getting less rebs in charlotte because he is playing like a stretch 4 which he is not.

[Raven]

did you forget the playoff games against Portland and game 3 vs Miami? fucking morons

:lol was a net cancer in both

[4down]

Ugh. Fredette sucks.

Ha. The good thing is it seems they are likely to keep Mills which is far and away the best scenario apart from some pipe dream hypothetical. But Fredette could work as a reclamation project.he needs the ball a little too much but given the right environment he can provide value. He can still shoot and having space and a system would help. His drawback would be poor defense and below average foot speed. He's like Patty and Gary Neal in that he's a willing shooter and like Neal but not Patty in terms of defense.

[xmas1997]

I think Patty will only get better tbqh.
I am leaning on the Spurs signing Frye in free agency and that is it besides signing Diaw and Mills.

[Richie]

Josh for the MLE would be overpaying.

He's good value if it's the full MLE for only one year to preserve cap room for 2015. I wouldn't pay him $15m/3yr but for $5m/1yr he'd be great

[exstatic]

He's good value if it's the full MLE for only one year to preserve cap room for 2015. I wouldn't pay him $15m/3yr but for $5m/1yr he'd be great

I think the MLE has to be for more than one year.

[xmas1997]

I think the MLE has to be for more than one year.

It can be used for players UP TO 4 years for teams who are not paying the tax, and UP TO 3 years for those paying the tax.

[Chinook]

I think the MLE has to be for more than one year.


I don't believe so. S&Ts do. What's true regardless is that the subsequent years don't have to be guaranteed. So the Spurs could give McRoberts a deal that would only clog the cap for one year. Provided he's willing, of course.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't believe so. S&Ts do. What's true regardless is that the subsequent years don't have to be guaranteed. So the Spurs could give McRoberts a deal that would only clog the cap for one year. Provided he's willing, of course.

I'm not too sure what people really see in McRoberts.Sure he can stretch the floor to a degree and has some toughness about him, but his shot selection and BBIQ on both ends is pretty terrible. Not a fan.

[exstatic]

I don't believe so. S&Ts do. What's true regardless is that the subsequent years don't have to be guaranteed. So the Spurs could give McRoberts a deal that would only clog the cap for one year. Provided he's willing, of course.

Ah, thanks.

[Chinook]

I'm not too sure what people really see in McRoberts.Sure he can stretch the floor to a degree and has some toughness about him, but his shot selection and BBIQ on both ends is pretty terrible. Not a fan.

He has a great year passing the ball. He's mobile, athletic amd can now shoot. If he buys in to the system, he'd be tje best fit out there.

[MaNu4Tres]

He has a great year passing the ball. He's mobile, athletic amd can now shoot. If he buys in to the system, he'd be tje best fit out there.



Meh, he can shoot, but his shot selection ( or lack thereof) negates his true accuracy (too many ill-advised/contested long 2's for my liking).

Would rather go the internal improvement route and go w/ Baynes for 1/3rd; 1/4th of McRoberts' market value. And I'm not a huge fan of that scenario.

Hawes or Frye are better fits, but will cost 1-2 mil more per.

[Chinook]

Meh, he can shoot, but his shot selection ( or lack thereof) negates his true accuracy (too many ill-advised/contested long 2's for my liking).

Would rather go the internal improvement route and go w/ Baynes for 1/3rd; 1/4th of McRoberts' market value. And I'm not a huge fan of that scenario.

Hawes or Frye are better fits, but will cost 1-2 mil more per.

Neither Hawes nor Fyre fit better than McRoberts would. They are stretch-fives, which the Spurs do not need. They also are not as adept at passing the ball (although I seem to recall that Channing can do it at an acceptable level). They lack Josh's athleticism and mobility, which sort of negates their ability to play next to Duncan. The main thing they have is that they are more proven in their current roles. McRoberts just started being a stretch-four this year, and there are still some growing pains. But Josh's potential there is tremendous.

Baynes is a center, which means he and McRoberts aren't fighting for the same minutes. If Aron holds on, it will be as the third center just like he was this year. If Pop starts Splitter/Duncan again, then of course the third center gets fourth-big minutes. But If Pop does the right thing and trends away from that combo, then Baynes will get the few minutes Tim and Tiago don't eat. In any event, getting a second reliable power-forward is pretty key, as Bonner's ability to play the position more than situationally is in question. Also, Baynes will probably make about half of what McRoberts will make. I think Aron earned a bigger raise (percentage-wise) than Josh did.

Shot selection is mostly the result of the system teams run. Josh had to shoot a lot in the Miami series, since he was often left open and his team needed the points. In the Spurs' system, he'd get fewer shots, by they'd be better looks. Provided he continues to work on his form (with Chip if he lands in SA), then McRoberts could end up being a strong shooter.

[Baam]

While McRoberts would be a great fit, if they draft Jokic I don't see the point tbh... Spend the MLE on a wing that can play with Manu without creating complete chaos on defense (basically not Beli :rolleyes)... Or on a PG/combo guard if Mills walks...

[xmas1997]

In any case the Spurs need to keep Chip.

[Baam]

In any case the Spurs need to keep Chip.

I believe Kerr was the main threat to recruit him and they signed Gentry as the first assistant so I think it's pretty much a given he's staying...

[Richie]

Meh, he can shoot, but his shot selection ( or lack thereof) negates his true accuracy (too many ill-advised/contested long 2's for my liking).

Would rather go the internal improvement route and go w/ Baynes for 1/3rd; 1/4th of McRoberts' market value. And I'm not a huge fan of that scenario.

Hawes or Frye are better fits, but will cost 1-2 mil more per.

Hawes or Frye are better players but would want multi year deals. $5m is overpaying for McRoberts, but he could possibly get $7m/2yr elsewhere so we'd need to pay him more to compensate for taking less years.

As for Chinooks post, there's simply no difference between a stretch 4 and a stretch 5. Both just a big man who can shoot the 3.

[Chinook]

Hawes or Frye are better players but would want multi year deals. $5m is overpaying for McRoberts, but he could possibly get $7m/2yr elsewhere so we'd need to pay him more to compensate for taking less years.

As for Chinooks post, there's simply no difference between a stretch 4 and a stretch 5. Both just a big man who can shoot the 3.

Lol. Of course there's a difference. Stretch-fours play PF, and stretch-fives play C. Literally, the only thing they have in common is that they shoot threes.

[Seventyniner]

Lol. Of course there's a difference. Stretch-fours play PF, and stretch-fives play C. Literally, the only thing they have in common is that they shoot threes.

The difference is on defense, right? I would expect a stretch 5 to have some semblance of rim protection or post defense, while I would expect a stretch 4 to be more comfortable defending PnRs and stepping out to contest midrange jumpers. On offense, positional designations are less meaningful.

[Chinook]

The difference is on defense, right? I would expect a stretch 5 to have some semblance of rim protection or post defense, while I would expect a stretch 4 to be more comfortable defending PnRs and stepping out to contest midrange jumpers. On offense, positional designations are less meaningful.

Yes, it's most important on defense. But it still matters on offense. Could McRoberts start next to Millsap or Thad Young? Size matters when it comes to setting screens and rebounding, both of which stretch-fives should be expected to do over their PF counterparts.

[Richie]

Lol. Of course there's a difference. Stretch-fours play PF, and stretch-fives play C. Literally, the only thing they have in common is that they shoot threes.

Complete semantics between the power forward and center position. A center with a jumpshot is just a tall power forward. Same way a power forward who can't shoot a jump shot is an undersized center.

What makes Blair a center and Bosh a power forward? Maybe there used to be a difference when every team has a big bruising 7 footer but the game has changed, the positions are interchangeable. No difference at all between a stretch 4 or stretch 5.

[Chinook]

Complete semantics between the power forward and center position. A center with a jumpshot is just a tall power forward. Same way a power forward who can't shoot a jump shot is an undersized center.

What makes Blair a center and Bosh a power forward? Maybe there used to be a difference when every team has a big bruising 7 footer but the game has changed, the positions are interchangeable. No difference at all between a stretch 4 or stretch 5.

You have it backwards. PF and C USED TO BE interchangeable back when Duncan and Garnett came into the league. Now, they're divergent.

[jesterbobman]

There are people who can play both big positions(Horford), guys who are fairly clearly 4's(Millsap) and clear 5's(Drummond). Most teams are going towards the slightly undersized shooter at PF where they can, as the shooting value more than makes up for the defensive loss when there is a good defensive centre on the court.

There are cases where players are centres in size and (lack of) mobility, who are stretch 5's(Hawes, Antic types) and short guys that can't shoot who are undersized centres(Blair, probably Stokes in the draft). That makes position a bit tricky, as there is some fluidity between positions, but overall they are splitting out.

The question for the Spurs is that, if the spurs sign a 4th big, who does that guy defend? If Splitter is on the bench in the 20 minutes high quality backup/occassional starter, he can guard either, but he's probably more challenged by backup PFs that backup C's, so a PF makes sense to me. With that PF, you want shooting, passing, and being mobile enough to adequately defend mobile types like Millsap.

[Chinook]

There are people who can play both big positions(Horford), guys who are fairly clearly 4's(Millsap) and clear 5's(Drummond). Most teams are going towards the slightly undersized shooter at PF where they can, as the shooting value more than makes up for the defensive loss when there is a good defensive centre on the court.

There are cases where players are centres in size and (lack of) mobility, who are stretch 5's(Hawes, Antic types) and short guys that can't shoot who are undersized centres(Blair, probably Stokes in the draft). That makes position a bit tricky, as there is some fluidity between positions, but overall they are splitting out.

The question for the Spurs is that, if the spurs sign a 4th big, who does that guy defend? If Splitter is on the bench in the 20 minutes high quality backup/occassional starter, he can guard either, but he's probably more challenged by backup PFs that backup C's, so a PF makes sense to me. With that PF, you want shooting, passing, and being mobile enough to adequately defend mobile types like Millsap.

Yes, that's a fine interpretation of the ideas I'm trying to put forth. The Spurs big rotation has a hole for a power-forward who can stretch the floor and move well enough on defense to start next to Duncan or in the very least come off the bench with Splitter while not hurting the Spurs' spacing. While stretch-fives like Hawes may well be able to space the floor at a similar or better level than McRoberts, their lack of mobility makes them poor fits next to Duncan and an unnecessarily burdensome fit next to Splitter.

I personally think that, should the team want to move on from the Duncan/Splitter starting duo, it should find a new starter at PF rather than putting Diaw there and bring the new PF off the bench. I think Boris fits better as a backup. A guy like McRoberts can space the floor, finish and pass well enough to fit right into the rotation. He also has a good deal of upside left and would be among the youngest bigs on the roster.

[Baam]

The big question is what to do with Splitter... Is it really okay to have him come off the bench (his value would go down, that's why RJeff always started)...

Or do you try to trade him for a starting 4.

Or do you try to trade him for post Duncanobili pieces.

[Mel_13]

The big question is what to do with Splitter... Is it really okay to have him come off the bench

Yes. Next question.

[Chinook]

Yes. Next question.

:lol

[Baam]

Yes. Next question.

You would have said the same thing for RJeff and they didn't do it...

It becomes a lot harder to bench a player once he makes double figures because you're depreciating an asset...

I think it's gonna make for a very interesting conversation between Pop and RC. I believe that putting Kawhi in the best position to succeed is gonna be one of the top priorities so I don't see Splitter starting most games next season and after that it's anyone's guess...

I think if you're in RC's shoes, it's extremely tempting to go after what could be the post Duncan defensive anchor in Capela... Or the post Ginobili 6th man in Kyle Anderson... But then Pop on the other side of the table gonna want guarantees they can be as good or better next year... Bottom line is I don't believe Splitter is needed but that's just me... It's hilarious to me that the 2012 loss resulted in the Splitter era when he was way worse than Diaw as the starting 4 against that Thunder team... Basically the 2012 loss resulted in the downgrade of a team that was coming off a 20 wins streak... It's still unbelievable to me... And then we see that team again in the WCF and in the Finals and it absolutely crushed the 2 best teams in the league... While the shitty spacing created by Splitter almost resulted in a first round exit...

[Mel_13]

You would have said the same thing for RJeff and they didn't do it...

Not comparable situations at all. Next question.

[Chinook]

Mel, with no regard for human life!

I get what you're saying, Baam . I really do. If the Spurs come out of the post-season believing Splitter and Duncan can no longer start together (which is pretty much what I would like them to think if that leads to them getting the necessary upgrade at PF), then it does make Splitter's salary less worth it. But remember than the Spurs have Duncan at a discount so that they can pay Splitter a lot of money to be his backup. They won't crack $20 Million in 2014-2015, which is about as much as Tim could have commanded had he wanted to play hard-ball with the FO. Even in the worst-case scenario, Tiago at $9M/year for 20mpg is worth it because it allows the Spurs to have a fresh Tim at 28 mpg (with nights off) for only $10M/year.

The Spurs don't have to make financial trades because the Big Three gave up money to allow the team to pay whatever they needed to to keep the Medium Three in town. If they can use the MLE to add a 10th player to the core rotation, great. But if not, they are going to stick with what took them to a title. Duncan/Splitter/Diaw is still the best big rotation in the league.

[Baam]

Yeah deep down I know they're gonna take the conservative route. Any team would after a title.

[Mel_13]

But remember than the Spurs have Duncan at a discount so that they can pay Splitter a lot of money to be his backup. They won't crack $20 Million in 2014-2015, which is about as much as Tim could have commanded had he wanted to play hard-ball with the FO. Even in the worst-case scenario, Tiago at $9M/year for 20mpg is worth it because it allows the Spurs to have a fresh Tim at 28 mpg (with nights off) for only $10M/year.

The Spurs don't have to make financial trades because the Big Three gave up money to allow the team to pay whatever they needed to to keep the Medium Three in town. If they can use the MLE to add a 10th player to the core rotation, great. But if not, they are going to stick with what took them to a title. Duncan/Splitter/Diaw is still the best big rotation in the league.

All good points. I've gone on elsewhere about Tiago's value as a Duncan career extender and I think it's clear that Pop and RC have a very high regard for Splitter. A regard that was proven when they instantly were willing to pay his market price in 2012.

In addition to your points, consider that the relative impact of Splitter's salary on the payroll shrinks with every passing year. Last season he was paid 10M out of a 58M cap. Next year it's 9.25M out of 63M. By the final year it will be 8.25M out of 68-70M. When you consider that he projects to be the starting center for the final year or two, his contract isn't any sort of hindrance to roster construction.

[Chinook]

All good points. I've gone on elsewhere about Tiago's value as a Duncan career extender and I think it's clear that Pop and RC have a very high regard for Splitter. A regard that was proven when they instantly were willing to pay his market price in 2012.

In addition to your points, consider that the relative impact of Splitter's salary on the payroll shrinks with every passing year. Last season he was paid 10M out of a 58M cap. Next year it's 9.25M out of 63M. By the final year it will be 8.25M out of 68-70M. When you consider that he projects to be the starting center for the final year or two, his contract isn't any sort of hindrance to roster construction.

Yeah, shrinking contracts are great if you can negotiate them. They're easier to move, and they're more likely to keep up with a player's decreasing value. Even if Leonard gets a full-max deal, the Spurs should have money to build around him.

[Mel_13]

Clippers guard Darren Collison and forwards Glen Davis and Danny Granger will opt out of the final years of their respective contracts and become free agents this summer, according to sources.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/11114474/los-angeles-clippers-darren-collison-glen-davis-danny-granger-test-free-agency

[DesignatedT]

Clippers guard Darren Collison and forwards Glen Davis and Danny Granger will opt out of the final years of their respective contracts and become free agents this summer, according to sources.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/11114474/los-angeles-clippers-darren-collison-glen-davis-danny-granger-test-free-agency


Mel, What are your thoughts on Patty and the likelihood he stays in SA? What's your guess on the type of contract it would take to keep him here?

[Mel_13]

Mel, What are your thoughts on Patty and the likelihood he stays in SA? What's your guess on the type of contract it would take to keep him here?

I think 3yrs/12-15M will get it done. The bigger question is whether the Spurs will be willing to pay that much for a backup PG if that's what it takes to keep him.

[Chinook]

Danny Granger cost himself so much damned money this past season. I can't imagine he doesn't sign for near the minimum now. Maybe Dallas would pay a couple million to try to catch lightening in a bottle.

[mystargtr34]

Not sure i any value in McRoberts, Hawes etc.

[kobyz]

First, no need for McRoberts if Boris is staying... Second, i don't really like McRoberts, he is too erratic and play out of control especially on defense...

[DrunkTXLabrat]

y'all hit the nail on the head about Splitter on the bench. Timmy could play 2 more years, or he could retire any minute now. Splitter, starting or not, will get value minutes.

[pgardn]

From what I have seen of McRoberts he is not going to step right in because he has a hell of a lot to learn. I too like his mobility but he is very erratic on D. Fouls in really stupid situations because he has enough ability to get to the right spot instead of already being in the right spot.

If he can be taught quickly, I'm in.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Yahoo Sources: Chicago's pursuing a trade for Orlando's Arron Afflalo, who is very available. yhoo.it/1p2OJyi (http://t.co/dt3njiv1yS)

[Chinook]

That's a queer idea. He makes too much and would cost assets they may need for Melo/Love.

[Prime Time]

Bulls going for any source of offense they can find. They are at a major stand still at this point.

[Mr. Body]

Bulls going for any source of offense they can find. They are at a major stand still at this point.

I can't understand how an NBA team struggles to find offense. Guys who can score are a dime a dozen.

Like the Pacers. How hard is it to find a point guard?

[Ocotillo]

How hard is it to find a point guard?

The Spurs spent most of David Robinson's career hunting for a point guard. They had Strickland early but briefly. After that, the best one was Avery Johnson and while he fit in, he was mediocre compared to the rest of the league. Hell Vinnie Del Negro was the starting point guard for a while.

Once we lucked out and got Tony Parker, a lot of effort has been spent trying to find a good back up point guard.

They're out there, they just aren't always easy to get.

[Chinook]

I can't understand how an NBA team struggles to find offense. Guys who can score are a dime a dozen.

Like the Pacers. How hard is it to find a point guard?

Well, the Spurs still only have one actual PG who isn't Cory Joseph. Miami can't seem to find one, either.

[benjirh]

I think 3yrs/12-15M will get it done. The bigger question is whether the Spurs will be willing to pay that much for a backup PG if that's what it takes to keep him.
I would actually pay that if I was the Spurs. For the reasons we are already talking about. PGs don't just pop up all the time and while Mills is not a true PG, he is a lot better than Neal was in that role. Plus, Mills showed his work ethic this past summer and there is no reason he won't continue striving to improve. With Tony needing the rest time, I like the value we get with Mills. I think he is much more important than Neal and has value on both sides of the ball.


Danny Granger cost himself so much damned money this past season. I can't imagine he doesn't sign for near the minimum now. Maybe Dallas would pay a couple million to try to catch lightening in a bottle.
I first read this as Danny GREEN and I could not figure out for the life of me what you were talking about. Glad I read it again before I went off.


Well, the Spurs still only have one actual PG who isn't Cory Joseph. Miami can't seem to find one, either.
I have been wondering, if we do feel confident that we can re-sign Mills, could Joseph be moved? I don't want to change just for the sake of change, but could he be a part of bringing in another valuable asset at the 3 or 5, or could he help us move up in the draft? Just some thoughts.

[Mel_13]

I would actually pay that if I was the Spurs. For the reasons we are already talking about. PGs don't just pop up all the time and while Mills is not a true PG, he is a lot better than Neal was in that role. Plus, Mills showed his work ethic this past summer and there is no reason he won't continue striving to improve. With Tony needing the rest time, I like the value we get with Mills. I think he is much more important than Neal and has value on both sides of the ball.

I absolutely agree with your evaluation of Patty's performance, work ethic, and role with the current squad. How much they're willing to pay him could provide some very good insight into how much they value the ability to create significant cap space in the summer of 2015.

Right now, Tiago's salary is the only significant number on 2015-2016 payroll. So the Spurs are positioned to make a significant free agent acquisition if we assume that Duncan and Ginobili retire after next season. That payroll can quickly fill up as decisions are made on Diaw, Mills, and possible extensions for Parker and Leonard. If all those deals are done this summer and all come in at the higher end of expected salaries, and they use the full MLE this summer and they plan on keeping Green, then the ability to create sufficient cap space next summer could quickly evaporate. It's entirely possible, and entirely consistent with team payroll management history, that they do just that. By the end of this summer, the 2015 cap space could be all but gone and the opportunity for significant cap space rolled forward to the summer of 2017. In that scenario, they can easily pay to keep Patty.

[ace3g]

Sam Amick @sam_amick
(https://twitter.com/sam_amick)Addendum No. 2 on Houston (a day after No. 1):Agent Aaron Goodwin says Francisco Garcia still intends to pass up $1.3 ml option for '14-15

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Suns' Channing Frye has 'til Monday to decide to play next season at $6.8 mil w/PHX or opt out. Source: "99 percent" he chooses free agency

[TD 21]

Right now, Tiago's salary is the only significant number on 2015-2016 payroll. So the Spurs are positioned to make a significant free agent acquisition if we assume that Duncan and Ginobili retire after next season. That payroll can quickly fill up as decisions are made on Diaw, Mills, and possible extensions for Parker and Leonard. If all those deals are done this summer and all come in at the higher end of expected salaries, and they use the full MLE this summer and they plan on keeping Green, then the ability to create sufficient cap space next summer could quickly evaporate. It's entirely possible, and entirely consistent with team payroll management history, that they do just that. By the end of this summer, the 2015 cap space could be all but gone and the opportunity for significant cap space rolled forward to the summer of 2017. In that scenario, they can easily pay to keep Patty.

This is probably the most likely scenario. It doesn't make sense to break this team up when Duncan and Ginobili retire or because of the unlikelihood of a max player signing with them . . . and by the off chance one indicated they wanted to, it shouldn't be overly difficult to make it work.

As long as they sign Millsap or someone of that ilk, a top eight of Splitter, Millsap, Leonard, Green, Parker, Belinelli, Diaw and Mills, it still the makings of a good team. Not a legit contender, but a second tier one. It may not sound all that appealing, but short of a full on re-build where they get lucky in the lottery, the odds of building anything more is unlikely. So they might as well ride out the primes of Parker, Splitter and Diaw, before resorting to that.

[BackHome]

I think that Duncan will play two more years so for me trying to get number 6 is priority over saving cap space. Still be smart with the cap but as far as the draft I would not be surprised if we trade a player to move up and get someone we like.

Either way we keep this team and just add Bertrans and I think that if healthy we can do some major damage in playoffs.

[Ditty]

Preferred back up small forwards:

1.Al-Farouq Aminu
2.Marvin Williams
3.Shawn Marion
4.Vince Carter
5.Mike Miller
6.Wesley Johnson
7.CJ Miles
8.Xavier Henry

[Mel_13]

Sacramento Kings small forward Rudy Gay has decided against becoming a free agent and will instead exercise the player option for the 2014-15 season worth $19.3 million, two people with knowledge of the situation confirmed to USA TODAY Sports.

http://www.news10.net/story/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/2014/06/22/rudy-gay-opts-in-with-kings/11243081/

[exstatic]

Sacramento Kings small forward Rudy Gay has decided against becoming a free agent and will instead exercise the player option for the 2014-15 season worth $19.3 million, two people with knowledge of the situation confirmed to USA TODAY Sports.

http://www.news10.net/story/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/2014/06/22/rudy-gay-opts-in-with-kings/11243081/

Smart move. He's still young enough for this not to matter in getting a new long term deal next year, and he needs to consolidate and continue his improvements from last year.

[Mel_13]

Smart move. He's still young enough for this not to matter in getting a new long term deal next year, and he needs to consolidate and continue his improvements from last year.

True. Plus, if LeBron opts in for this season, there will more teams with max cap space next summer.

[Raven]

I'm not too sure what people really see in McRoberts.Sure he can stretch the floor to a degree and has some toughness about him, but his shot selection and BBIQ on both ends is pretty terrible. Not a fan.

i've got to say i never noticed a problem in his shot selection tbh, i've always considered the bad offense of charlotte to be exclusively kemba's shittiness fault. perhaps i've misjudged..

[Raven]

Preferred back up small forwards:

1.Al-Farouq Aminu
2.Marvin Williams
3.Shawn Marion
4.Vince Carter
5.Mike Miller
6.Wesley Johnson
7.CJ Miles
8.Xavier Henry

damn, that's one awful bunch..

[ceperez]

damn, that's one awful bunch..

Vince Carter ... Mike Miller both likely to take the minimum.

[Mr. Body]

Sacramento Kings small forward Rudy Gay has decided against becoming a free agent and will instead exercise the player option for the 2014-15 season worth $19.3 million, two people with knowledge of the situation confirmed to USA TODAY Sports.

http://www.news10.net/story/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/2014/06/22/rudy-gay-opts-in-with-kings/11243081/

LOL. Why in the world would he think he could make that kind of money on the market again?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Preferred back up small forwards:

1.Al-Farouq Aminu
2.Marvin Williams
3.Shawn Marion
4.Vince Carter
5.Mike Miller
6.Wesley Johnson
7.CJ Miles
8.Xavier Henry

Aminu and Johnson are my favs. I call Johnson the Kawhi killa. He had a pretty nasty block on Kawhi, early in the season. And he hit that game winner in the at&t, while he was a sun. He's good against the spurs.

I don't know as much about Aminu outside of his 2k game. But everytime i've seen him, he's athletic and hustles. And he looks like he has a good wingspan. I'm always on the lookout for him in fantasy league, when Davis gets hurt.

[Mr. Body]

I would be pretty surprised to see a younger SF sign with the Spurs in order to back up Leonard. I think the actual choices on that list are Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and Mike Miller.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

I'd love to see AK-47 on the Spurs (if he opts out, that is). I think he'd be a perfect fit. Experience of leadership in the international game is, like, soooo us.

[ceperez]

I'd love to see AK-47 on the Spurs (if he opts out, that is). I think he'd be a perfect fit. Experience of leadership in the international game is, like, soooo us.

I wanted AK-47 to sign last year. But after seeing how he did with the Nets, I'm not sure if he has anything left to contribute.

Vince Carter on the other hand, he was the 2nd best player against the Spurs. He's got a good relationship with Danny Green and he's quite respected by the other Spurs. If he wants a ring, then he's signing with the Spurs.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000504277916/ee320e7bd562985848cd2206e2a44e7b_bigger.jpeg David AldridgeVerified account ‏@daldridgetnt (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt)

Andrei Kirilenko opts in with Brooklyn for next season at $3.3M, per source. Second year of two-year deal worth $6.5M.

[ace3g]

Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN
(https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN)Mo Williams has informed Portland that he will become a free agent, agent Mark Bartelstein told ESPN.

[Darkwaters]

Aminu and Johnson are my favs. I call Johnson the Kawhi killa. He had a pretty nasty block on Kawhi, early in the season. And he hit that game winner in the at&t, while he was a sun. He's good against the spurs.

I don't know as much about Aminu outside of his 2k game. But everytime i've seen him, he's athletic and hustles. And he looks like he has a good wingspan. I'm always on the lookout for him in fantasy league, when Davis gets hurt.

Everytime you've seen him....in 2k?

[ace3g]

Denver Nuggets @denvernuggets
(https://twitter.com/denvernuggets)BREAKING: Darrell Arthur & Nate Robinson exercise their 2014-15 contract options. #BackInBlue (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BackInBlue) on.nba.com/V5so60 (http://t.co/Aulb0ZqpgC) pic.twitter.com/ItTtqE9nXB (http://t.co/ItTtqE9nXB)

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Everytime you've seen him....in 2k?

no. i saw him playing in an early season game against the spurs. the season before last. i remember him standing out. i have half a mind to dig out the 2013 aminu think tank thread.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Yahoo Sources: Phoenix forward Channing Frye has opt-ed out of his contract, become unrestricted free agent. yhoo.it/1qtqEOs (http://t.co/B9APGmuJ1b)

[DesignatedT]

If the Spurs add a backup SF to the roster it's going to be a guy who doesn't mind racking up some DNP-CD's throughout the year. Francisco Garcia is still a decent option. He's played some really good defense in the past and he can hit the three.