Panthers GM: Cam proved to be franchise QB

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10293367/cam-newton-proved-carolina-panthers-franchise-quarterback-gm-says

:toast

[leemajors]

If you wanna pay him like one, good luck

[Spur-Addict]

On the books for 7 million next season, it can only go up from here tbh. What do you think is fair market value for Newton, NLS?

[benefactor]

Please sign Cum to an expensive, long term deal.

Please.

[spurraider21]

He's more than a viable starter, but if he gets anything near Cutler's contract (not that Cutler deserved it)... holy shit

[Clipper Nation]

Not sure why OP is so happy, his franchise basically announced that they're going to allow a gimmick QB to bend them over at the negotiating table :lol

[Chinook]

And he'll get $17M+ because ... well ... that's just the going rate for starting quarterbacks. And some here will still argue that QBs aren't massively over paid.

[JohnnyMax]

49ers defense basically sealed up the edges and forced him to stay in the pocket. He was mediocre.

[Creepn]

Hopefully they won't pay him too much. Isn't the reason why these teams have elite defenses is because they pay the quarterbacks a really reduced salary?

[The Gemini Method]

Like it was mentioned: Seal the edges and he can't get anything done. :lmao

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Like it was mentioned: Seal the edges and he can't get anything done. :lmao

he played good against SF for the most part. He stopped running in the second half, but it looked like "Sealing the edges" didn't work in the first half. not to mention each drive he drove down field. he led one of the best drives all year with 8 minutes going 40 yards.

newton is going to be good. takes time and experience

[J.T.]

I think NFL teams make a gigantic mistake each time they pay their QB out the ass. I don't care if that QB won the Super Bowl. It's obvious that you win the Super Bowl with a balanced roster, and tying up 25%-ish of your cap money in one player is borderline asinine. Tom Brady hasn't won the Super Bowl since 2005. Peyton Manning hasn't won the Super Bowl since 2007. They've lost the Super Bowls they have been to since. Aaron Rodgers, winner of the 2011 Super Bowl, hasn't made it back. Joe Flacco, winner of the most recent Super Bowl, did not qualify for the playoffs almost exclusively because his gigantic new deal held his team back. Having an elite QB definitely helps, but it's definitely not a recipe for sustained success. NFL parity may have gotten to the point where it's basically impossible to repeat as a Super Bowl winner due to QBs getting overpaid.

Newton definitely shouldn't get an elite QB pay day when his rookie deal is up. Neither should Luck or any of the other young guys, even if they win the Super Bowl before those deals are up. If any of the young QB crew (Newton, Luck, RG3, Wilson, Kap) rings, they'll probably get paid because that's now the NFL works now, but I don't think they should get these massive $90-$100 million deals just for one Super Bowl ring.

[leemajors]

I think NFL teams make a gigantic mistake each time they pay their QB out the ass. I don't care if that QB won the Super Bowl. It's obvious that you win the Super Bowl with a balanced roster, and tying up 25%-ish of your cap money in one player is borderline asinine. Tom Brady hasn't won the Super Bowl since 2005. Peyton Manning hasn't won the Super Bowl since 2007. They've lost the Super Bowls they have been to since. Aaron Rodgers, winner of the 2011 Super Bowl, hasn't made it back. Joe Flacco, winner of the most recent Super Bowl, did not qualify for the playoffs almost exclusively because his gigantic new deal held his team back. Having an elite QB definitely helps, but it's definitely not a recipe for sustained success. NFL parity may have gotten to the point where it's basically impossible to repeat as a Super Bowl winner due to QBs getting overpaid.

Newton definitely shouldn't get an elite QB pay day when his rookie deal is up. Neither should Luck or any of the other young guys, even if they win the Super Bowl before those deals are up. If any of the young QB crew (Newton, Luck, RG3, Wilson, Kap) rings, they'll probably get paid because that's now the NFL works now, but I don't think they should get these massive $90-$100 million deals just for one Super Bowl ring.

:tu

[Chinook]

I think NFL teams make a gigantic mistake each time they pay their QB out the ass. I don't care if that QB won the Super Bowl. It's obvious that you win the Super Bowl with a balanced roster, and tying up 25%-ish of your cap money in one player is borderline asinine. Tom Brady hasn't won the Super Bowl since 2005. Peyton Manning hasn't won the Super Bowl since 2007. They've lost the Super Bowls they have been to since. Aaron Rodgers, winner of the 2011 Super Bowl, hasn't made it back. Joe Flacco, winner of the most recent Super Bowl, did not qualify for the playoffs almost exclusively because his gigantic new deal held his team back. Having an elite QB definitely helps, but it's definitely not a recipe for sustained success. NFL parity may have gotten to the point where it's basically impossible to repeat as a Super Bowl winner due to QBs getting overpaid.

Newton definitely shouldn't get an elite QB pay day when his rookie deal is up. Neither should Luck or any of the other young guys, even if they win the Super Bowl before those deals are up. If any of the young QB crew (Newton, Luck, RG3, Wilson, Kap) rings, they'll probably get paid because that's now the NFL works now, but I don't think they should get these massive $90-$100 million deals just for one Super Bowl ring.

I agree in general for sure. But you missed the mark on Flacco. His new deal didn't prevent anything this season. He only counted for $8.6 Million against the cap. The Ravens had other financial issues this season. But yeah, starting in 2016, Flacco's contract will be a problem.

To me, it's not so much the money itself as it is the mentality that quarterbacks deserve to make it based solely on their position. It's one thing for elite players to get huge deals. Hayensworth, Williams, Megatron and AD have all gotten $100 Million deals. But their positions still don't usually garner half that, even for great players. But any QB thst sees the end of his rookie deal now gets $17M+.

[spurraider21]

having an elite QB definitely helps, but it's definitely not a recipe for sustained success.
Do me a favor and list me nfl teams that have had sustained success (5+ years) in the modern day

having an elite qb is paramount to sustained success, though I agree they they are being overvalued relative to the cap

[Chinook]

Do me a favor and list me nfl teams that have had sustained success (5+ years) in the modern day

having an elite qb is paramount to sustained success, though I agree they they are being overvalued relative to the cap

The Ravens, Steelers and Bengals (playoffs four of last five seasons) beg to differ. But let me guess, Flacco and Ben are elite.

[spurraider21]

Id argue Ben not Flacco. Also the patriots and colts have by in large been competing for over a decade. Same goes with the saints. Elite qb's there

[Chinook]

Id argue Ben not Flacco. Also the patriots and colts have by in large been competing for over a decade. Same goes with the saints. Elite qb's there

So what? No one said elite QBs don't help teams. But those are examples of it being unnecessary. Hell, even the Vikings make the playoffs more often than not nowadays.

[Holden_Caulfield]

hes gonna get overpaid which will get kaep overpaid then russy, then we can sign their defensive studs :toast

[jimbo]

And he'll get $17M+ because ... well ... that's just the going rate for starting quarterbacks. And some here will still argue that QBs aren't massively over paid.

Ridiculous. I wonder if it's a viable draft strategy to start just dumping QBs after a couple years and put that money to better use elsewhere. Not pure shit QBs like Gabbert, Ponder, Freeman--but just average ones like Cam. No point in paying a mediocre QB that much money. Only keep em if you get an actually elite one. But that's probably too risky for an NFL franchise.

[Chinook]

Ridiculous. I wonder if it's a viable draft strategy to start just dumping QBs after a couple years and put that money to better use elsewhere. Not pure shit QBs like Gabbert, Ponder, Freeman--but just average ones like Cam. No point in paying a mediocre QB that much money. Only keep em if you get an actually elite one. But that's probably too risky for an NFL franchise.

Yeah, it would take a team like the 9ers trading Kaep this off:season and making it back to the Superbowl with a new QB. Until someone stands up to these players and wins, there is no way these salaries are going back down. Owners need to shut the hell up, too. They keep ruining their front office's bargaining position.

[jimbo]

Tbh, I wonder what Flacco's salary would have been if he hadn't played so well during the Superbowl run. They wanted to pay him 15 per and he wanted 1 mil more guaranteed over the 6 years? Not sure exactly.

It would have been interesting to see what the other offers for him would have been. Not comparing Flacco to Alex Smith, but I wonder what the Chiefs will throw at him too. Matt Schaub money?

[spurraider21]

I wonder how much these guys would get paid on the open market. ALL these balloon contracts come when their team resigns them

[Chinook]

Tbh, I wonder what Flacco's salary would have been if he hadn't played so well during the Superbowl run. They wanted to pay him 15 per and he wanted 1 mil more guaranteed over the 6 years? Not sure exactly.

It would have been interesting to see what the other offers for him would have been. Not comparing Flacco to Alex Smith, but I wonder what the Chiefs will throw at him too. Matt Schaub money?

Believe it was $17M a year when they tried to re-sign him the prior off-season. But yeah, supposedly the hangup WAS over one million over the total deal. It was a good thing the deal fell through, because iy motivated Flacco.

Smith may get Cutler money. He has as good of a resume, if you ask me.

[Chinook]

I wonder how much these guys would get paid on the open market. ALL these balloon contracts come when their team resigns them

Some would get even bigger deals. But those like Cutler and Stafford would get less.

[jimbo]

Smith may get Cutler money. He has as good of a resume, if you ask me.

:lol

Schaub had a decent resume too. Led the league in passing yards one year. Cutler shouldn't have got the deal he did. Alex Smith has a decent resume, but man you can't pay him that much. I'd rather pick up Josh McCown for pennies and improve my team elsewhere.

You've got to think they already do it, but I wonder to what degree do NFL teams use moneyball techniques to choose what players they pick up. It doesn't seem like they do it all too much.

[Chinook]

It's hard ti moneyball in football. Some players really don't collect stats, and those who do have stats that are correlated to others stats. In baseball, players' performances can be separated by individual. Too many moving pieces in the NFL.

That doesn't mean some of the philosophy can't cross over, though.

[jimbo]

“As a practical tool, Moneyball does not work in the NFL because there are very few undervalued players and no middle class because of our salary cap,” Polian told Tim O'Shei of Buffalo Business First in January. “There is no middle class in football because the minimum salaries are so high, and because of the salary cap, a player will reach a point where you can’t keep him. They go. They’re going to get big money elsewhere.”

:lol He might be thinking about moneyball too literally. In the NFL it could apply to finding what players and positions are overvalued rather than under. Ex: You don't need to pay big $$$ or use a first day draft pick to get a serviceable RB. Does paying the extra money for a star RB's production outweigh the benefits gained from spending that money on upgrading the line + getting a worse RB?


But apparently the Bears do use it to a degree


Emery has consulted extensively with several services, and as he said on New Year's Day, it's going to be a major part of the equation as long as he's got a desk in the league.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/combine-more-teams-using-moneyball-tape-still-tells-162758386--nfl.html

[jimbo]

It's hard ti moneyball in football. Some players really don't collect stats, and those who do have stats that are correlated to others stats. In baseball, players' performances can be separated by individual. Too many moving pieces in the NFL.

That doesn't mean some of the philosophy can't cross over, though.

Yeah, I didn't mean moneyball exactly as it was used in the MLB or even the NBA-- but rather the idea of the "true" value of a player. With the salary cap in the NFL, value optimization should play a much larger role than it does in any other sport imo.

[Chinook]

Yeah, I didn't mean moneyball exactly as it was used in the MLB or even the NBA-- but rather the idea of the "true" value of a player. With the salary cap in the NFL, value optimization should play a much larger role than it does in any other sport imo.

Sure. I posted a few days ago that the new rule changes are actually devaluing individual QB becuase it's easier to play the position well.

[J.T.]

I'm just saying...I'd rather my team had the 2000 Ravens defense than the 2013 Broncos offense.

[01Snake]

Hey N0 LyF3 ScRuB....I got something for you last weekend while in Charlotte. See you Sunday. :lol

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/432x577q90/826/c1nq.jpg