Texans will drop Football according to Mel Kiper

[FkLA]

If so fuck Jerry and the Cowboys and lets go Texans. I will buy a Football #2 jersey and give away my Antonio Ramiro Romo jersey if this ends up being the case tbh.

:flag:


*draft

[FkLA]

http://www.dennisburnside.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Manziel1.jpg

[Holden_Caulfield]

:lmao please make it happen

[Riddler]

Mel Kiper knows nothing. He said Jamarcus Russel was going to be like Elway :lol

[J.T.]

I know the No.1 picks don't get as much money as they used to but the last thing Manziel needs is guaranteed millions. That'll torpedo his career almost overnight. He'll be on the Ryan Leaf Fast Track To Nowhere.

[benefactor]

lol Kiper

[spurraider21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rLOEvYULfY

[Holden_Caulfield]

i feel bad for the texans, reports are coming out that its either bortles or manziel :rollin

[spurraider21]

Bortles is fine, relative to the QB class coming out.

[Riddler]

Having Keenum AND Manziel on the same roster is redundant. You need a pocket passer.

[Clipper Nation]

Fat Aggy kicker and inbred Aggy quarterback - what could go wrong? :lol

[jimbo]

Never gonna happen. The Texans don't draft like that and Bill o Brien doesn't want a QB like that.

I've sworn to be a fan of his though, so I really don't want him to go to the Texans or Browns.

[benefactor]

Bortles is closest to what fits O'Brien. I want Bridgewater but Bortles would be no surprise. Again...we will know much more after the combine.

[Riddler]

Bortles will be the equivalent to Gabbert.

[Raven]

i'm starting to think they'll draft Clowney or the top tackle.

[Holden_Caulfield]

i'm starting to think they'll draft Clowney or the top tackle.
if i was the texans i take clowney or greg robinson

[td4mvp2k]

:lmao please make it happen

[FkLA]

Football is the best QB in this class. Easily.

[Riddler]

Football is the best QB in this class. Easily.
Nope.

[MeloHype]

Every qb in this class is gonna be ass

[FkLA]

Nope.

Cause of his size? That's the only negative shit people have on him. His arm is extremely underrated.

[spurraider21]

Cause of his size? That's the only negative shit people have on him. His arm is extremely underrated.
Probably because his success is dependent on his feet

[Riddler]

Cause of his size? That's the only negative shit people have on him. His arm is extremely underrated.
What happens to small, running QBs in the NFL? Do they last?

[benefactor]

Every qb in this class is gonna be ass
I fear this will be the case as well. As good as Bridgewater is I worry he has game manager written all over him.

[td4mvp2k]

Talk bout tshirt fan... OP :lol

[Riddler]

I fear this will be the case as well. As good as Bridgewater is I worry he has game manager written all over him.
If he can read defenses and pick up blitzes, (better than Keenum), then he'll be more than a game manager.

[FkLA]

Probably because his success is dependent on his feet

False. His arm is a very underrated weapon as well.


What happens to small, running QBs in the NFL? Do they last?

Even if this is what happens with Football I'd still take a couple of years of greatness over 10 years of average play. Especially for a team like the Texans who have a small window left before an overhaul.

There's no Luck in this class. Bortles/Bridgewater aren't franchise QBs tbh.


Talk bout tshirt fan... OP :lol

Have never bandwagoned in any sport and I'm a Cubs fan but the Cowboys are that miserable and Football is that awesome. It is what it is tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I know the No.1 picks don't get as much money as they used to but the last thing Manziel needs is guaranteed millions. That'll torpedo his career almost overnight. He'll be on the Ryan Leaf Fast Track To Nowhere.
Manziel already is guaranteed millions in oil money.

I honestly don't see any issue with his work ethic or his character. His teammates have always stuck up for him with the media and obviously like playing with him. The biggest issues with Manziel are his height and his habit of scrambling too early. All the QBs in this draft are dogs with flees, he has the least amount of flees imo.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Football is the best QB in this class. Easily.

:cry but teh autograph scandal :cry

[Riddler]

False. His arm is a very underrated weapon as well.



Even if this is what happens with Football I'd still take a couple of years of greatness over 10 years of average play. Especially for a team like the Texans who have a small window left before an overhaul.

There's no Luck in this class. Bortles/Bridgewater aren't franchise QBs tbh.



Have never bandwagoned in any sport and I'm a Cubs fan but the Cowboys are that miserable and Football is that awesome. It is what it is tbh.
You don't take the number one pick just to get a couple of years out of them. Also, their window has been shut already until a complete overhaul.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Eh no team's window is ever shut in the NFL. They're always 1-2 good draft classes and a new QB away from contention.

[Riddler]

Eh no team's window is ever shut in the NFL. They're always 1-2 good draft classes and a new QB away from contention.
True, I'm just speaking in terms of the Foster and Andre era.

[FkLA]

:cry but teh autograph scandal :cry

:cry hes also smaller than Teddy and Bortles :cry

As if that automatically makes both better options. :lol


You don't take the number one pick just to get a couple of years out of them. Also, their window has been shut already until a complete overhaul.

But instead you take a David Carr because he has the right measurables and he gets you a bunch of years of mediocrity ?

[spurraider21]

False. His arm is a very underrated weapon as well.
i never disputed his arm strength. vick has a monster arm as well. however, like i said, his success is dependent on his feet

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Eh, I agree Manziel should focus more on being a good pocket passer, but no QB over the last two years has been able to kick Alabama's D in the teeth with his arm the way Manziel has, twice. Meanwhile Bridgewater was playing against a bunch of HS teams.

[spurraider21]

yeah, I think Manziel is the only one with a chance to be a franchise changing QB, but its hard to trust somebody that runs as often as he does. he does have a good arm and isn't necessarily a bad passer. I think guys like Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater can become solid starting caliber players that won't necessarily be liabilities for their teams, but their ceilings are lower. For the record, I like Bortles better than any of those, but for such a big dude, you don't really see the elite arm strength you'd expect.

[Ghazi]

Texans have a talented roster... they are not far from contention at all. They're better than their 2-14 record.

[Holden_Caulfield]

False. His arm is a very underrated weapon as well.

:lmao youre overrating his arm, he has an avg arm at best and his velocity is even worse. maybe its his footwork but damn a lot of his passes wobble.

[FkLA]

i never disputed his arm strength. vick has a monster arm as well. however, like i said, his success is dependent on his feet

I guess if you mean he has to continue to run it in order to be more than just average in the NFL, then yeah Id agree. But obviously you dont take Football to be your pocket passer.

BTW people are acting like Vick never enjoyed success or stayed healthy, 2004-2006 he was solid. If Football can be that early on and continue to make progressions as a passer Id gladly take that if Im a Texans fan tbh.


:lmao youre overrating his arm, he has an avg arm at best and his velocity is even worse. maybe its his footwork but damn a lot of his passes wobble.

His arm is fine. Its not elite but its good enough to were hes more than capable of hurting you through the air.

[FkLA]

Also it wont be as fast but still curious to see Football's 40 time at the combine and how it compares with Vicks tbh.

[Holden_Caulfield]

His arm is fine. Its not elite but its good enough to were hes more than capable of hurting you through the air.
It would be fine if he was a pocket passer and could read a defense but thats not the case yet, hes pretty young and he improved his passing from last year but his instinct to run away and even from clean pockets will get him in trouble in the pros.

As for his 40 time i think he'll run in the 4.6 range and i think Carr will have a better 40 than him. He will kill the 3 cone drill and shuttle run for sure.

[spurraider21]

3 cone and shuttle run are far more important for scrambling imo. all about quick movements, direction changes, and stop-start. i'll try to find the article (might have been right off of rotoworld), but i read about how Carr through an inordinate amount of short passes which inflated his completion%

[Holden_Caulfield]

3 cone and shuttle run are far more important for scrambling imo. all about quick movements, direction changes, and stop-start. i'll try to find the article (might have been right off of rotoworld), but i read about how Carr through an inordinate amount of short passes which inflated his completion%
yeah that was pretty obvious since he throws like 10 bubble screens per game to compensate for their shitty oline play and running game :lol and the offense is predicated through quick release and presnap reads. He has like 200+ more passes than all the other qb prospects, and he was still sacked the least, but thats because of the quick strike offense.

[Holden_Caulfield]

also thats why his YPA is so embarrassing :lol

[spurraider21]

yeah, if i said i've watched all these guys games i'd be lying through my teeth :lol

i'm not an NCAAF junkie by any stretch. i have gone back and watched a lot of these qb's games (via throw-by-throw videos) since i'm assuming the raiders will be drafting one. you get a much different feel when you watch the actual game though.

[td4mvp2k]

Have never bandwagoned in any sport and I'm a Cubs fan but the Cowboys are that miserable and Football is that awesome. It is what it is tbh.:lol ya cuz da cubs arent miserable... Good 1 tshirt :tu

[FkLA]

It would be fine if he was a pocket passer and could read a defense but thats not the case yet, hes pretty young and he improved his passing from last year but his instinct to run away and even from clean pockets will get him in trouble in the pros.

Think what you want about him off the field but the dude is not dumb on the field. He isnt the type that panics and takes off instinctively like that. His ability to run is a positive not a negative. He has to make strides in the passing game no doubt but hes 21 and has made strides already.


As for his 40 time i think he'll run in the 4.6 range and i think Carr will have a better 40 than him. He will kill the 3 cone drill and shuttle run for sure.

Wut? Id be willing to bet money on both.

Isnt this Carr supposed to be less athletic than his older brother? No way in hell he records a faster 40 than Football tbh.


:lol ya cuz da cubs arent miserable... Good 1 tshirt :tu

Lovable though, the Cowboys are just embarrasing. And no youre the t-shirt Im a bandwagoner/Football fan tbh.

[td4mvp2k]

Lovable though, the Cowboys are just embarrasing. And no youre the t-shirt Im a bandwagoner/Football fan tbh.:lol only thing embarrasing is u tbh... Real fan talk :tu

[FkLA]

Now that I think about it the Cowboys have brought me less joy than the Cubs since I've been a fan. I'm not even that attached to them tbh.

[td4mvp2k]

I can tell tbh... :lol

[Holden_Caulfield]

Think what you want about him off the field but the dude is not dumb on the field. He isnt the type that panics and takes off instinctively like that. His ability to run is a positive not a negative. He has to make strides in the passing game no doubt but hes 21 and has made strides already.



Wut? Id be willing to bet money on both.
Isnt this Carr supposed to be less athletic than his older brother? No way in hell he records a faster 40 than Football tbh.

lol the fuck you talking about, his off field issues doesnt concern me. Dude he runs from a clean pocket like 4 times per game, if that isnt panicky idk what is :lol

Derek is way more athletic than his brother, way more committed to the game and has a much stronger arm. He reportedly ran a 4.56 40 in 2012, so im guessing he will run in the low 4.6s. Manziel is agile and has quick lateral movement but I'm not sure about his straightline speed. Both will run in the 4.6 range but i think Carr will post the better time.

[FkLA]

lol the fuck you talking about, his off field issues doesnt concern me. Dude he runs from a clean pocket like 4 times per game, if that isnt panicky idk what is :lol

Meh Ive never thought that was an issue with him. He's a composed dude, hes not the typical panicky scrambler. Theres plenty of times he stays in the pocket all day too tbh.


Derek is way more athletic than his brother, way more committed to the game and has a much stronger arm. He reportedly ran a 4.56 40 in 2012, so im guessing he will run in the low 4.6s. Manziel is agile and has quick lateral movement but I'm not sure about his straightline speed. Both will run in the 4.6 range but i think Carr will post the better time.

David ran a 4.67 at the combine tbh.

I'll bet you $50 Derek runs a slower time than David, $50 Football runs a faster time than both and another $50 that Football runs atleast a low 4.5.

[Holden_Caulfield]

David ran a 4.67 at the combine tbh.

I'll bet you $50 Derek runs a slower time than David, $50 Football runs a faster time than both and another $50 that Football runs atleast a low 4.5.
i'll make a sig bet, best of 3 wins, tbh.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Anybody else see a little Romo in his game? Dude is gonna be fckn solid, imo.

[Holden_Caulfield]

Anybody else see a little Romo in his game? Dude is gonna be fckn solid, imo.
yeah hes gonna break his back if hes gonna keep monkeyballing especially in the pros :lol

[Raven]

3 cone and shuttle run are far more important for scrambling imo. all about quick movements, direction changes, and stop-start. i'll try to find the article (might have been right off of rotoworld), but i read about how Carr through an inordinate amount of short passes which inflated his completion%

yeah i've seen the article too, i thought it was extremely retarded and perfectly showed why roto people fuck up every year with their qb scouting.. considering 20yd as a barrier for long throws is fucking retarded. Also, why would Carr throw in the 20yd range if he can consistently check down and do the alex smith for 7 td? They also said nothing about the 35yd barrier, which to me shows much more. Whatever.

[FkLA]

i'll make a sig bet, best of 3 wins, tbh.

I wanted the easy money but thatll work too tbh.

[benefactor]

Unless Manziel really sells himself in the interview process, I just don't see McNair signing off on it...no matter how he looks at the combine. He values character more than anything else. He's not the type of owner that would spend the number one pick on a guy that could provide potential off the field distractions.

[Holden_Caulfield]

I wanted the easy money but thatll work too tbh.
i dont make money bets on the interwebs :lol

[AaronY]

Manziel already is guaranteed millions in oil money.

I honestly don't see any issue with his work ethic or his character. His teammates have always stuck up for him with the media and obviously like playing with him. The biggest issues with Manziel are his height and his habit of scrambling too early. All the QBs in this draft are dogs with flees, he has the least amount of flees imo.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flea
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flee (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flea)

[DeadlyDynasty]

They just hired Romeo Crennel as DC. Word is the Browns are trying to trade up to get JFF

[Holden_Caulfield]

They just hired Romeo Crennel as DC. Word is the Browns are trying to trade up to get JFF
:lmao on both

meanwhile Carr looks good at the senior bowl practice :cry

[MeloHype]

http://i.imgur.com/Ezw4KRn.jpg
http://www.draftjohnnymanziel.com

[FkLA]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SNbf4ImD-ig&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSNbf4ImD-ig

[Trill Clinton]

manzeil is the best qb in this class and every team to pass on him in the draft will be fools to do so. he better go number 1.

i don't know why you dweebs are trying to ignore the new age quarterback. me, avante and creepn told ya'll 2 years ago the nfl was changing and the qb position is leading the charge. the days of the old school pocket passer are long gone. other than peyton, brees and brady, what other qb fits thats mold and is doing anything relevant? those 3 are in a class of their own, past their prime and one of a kind players, but i digress.

manziel has everything but size, but we've had plenty undersized qb's in the league before. i think people are overreacting his off field "issues". he has surrounded himself with other athletes and celebs who have their shit together...he is just enjoying being a young man and living in the moment. wouldn't you? he's charismatic(no homo), smart and fun to watch. he's a natural leader. most importantly, he's a texas quaterback. how many qb's from texas are doing their thang in the nfl right now???!!!

[JoeTait75]

manzeil is the best qb in this class and every team to pass on him in the draft will be fools to do so. he better go number 1.

i don't know why you dweebs are trying to ignore the new age quarterback. me, avante and creepn told ya'll 2 years ago the nfl was changing and the qb position is leading the charge. the days of the old school pocket passer are long gone. other than peyton, brees and brady, what other qb fits thats mold and is doing anything relevant? those 3 are in a class of their own, past their prime and one of a kind players, but i digress.

manziel has everything but size, but we've had plenty undersized qb's in the league before. i think people are overreacting his off field "issues". he has surrounded himself with other athletes and celebs who have their shit together...he is just enjoying being a young man and living in the moment. wouldn't you? he's charismatic(no homo), smart and fun to watch. he's a natural leader. most importantly, he's a texas quaterback. how many qb's from texas are doing their thang in the nfl right now???!!!

Regardless of where he gets picked he'll be a Cleveland Brown when the smoke clears. Book it. And he's exactly what this franchise needs.

[FkLA]

^God I hope not. Cleveland is a miserable sports city, I don't wanna be a Browns fan tbh.

[spurraider21]

at this point i'm warming up to the raiders drafting johnny if he falls. the others are so damn underwhelming

[djohn2oo8]

manzeil is the best qb in this class and every team to pass on him in the draft will be fools to do so. he better go number 1.

i don't know why you dweebs are trying to ignore the new age quarterback. me, avante and creepn told ya'll 2 years ago the nfl was changing and the qb position is leading the charge. the days of the old school pocket passer are long gone. other than peyton, brees and brady, what other qb fits thats mold and is doing anything relevant? those 3 are in a class of their own, past their prime and one of a kind players, but i digress.

manziel has everything but size, but we've had plenty undersized qb's in the league before. i think people are overreacting his off field "issues". he has surrounded himself with other athletes and celebs who have their shit together...he is just enjoying being a young man and living in the moment. wouldn't you? he's charismatic(no homo), smart and fun to watch. he's a natural leader. most importantly, he's a texas quaterback. how many qb's from texas are doing their thang in the nfl right now???!!!

No. Small, run first QBs do not last in the NFL. (health wise)

[FkLA]

No. Small, run first QBs do not last in the NFL. (health wise)

And scrubs like David Carr or Schaub with prototypical size do?

[djohn2oo8]

And scrubs like David Carr or Schaub with prototypical size do?
If they get hurt, it's not because they ran around increasing the likelihood that they get hurt.

[FkLA]

If they get hurt, it's not because they ran around increasing the likelihood that they get hurt.

And that makes them better QBs? :lol

I'll take a prime Vick over those two scrubs any day tbh.

[djohn2oo8]

And that makes them better QBs? :lol

I'll take a prime Vick over those two scrubs any day tbh.
Where did I say it made them a better QB? I said small, run first QBs don't last. RGKnee as my main example.

[benefactor]

The Browns will take Manziel at 4. The only other player that isn't Bridgewater that Houston is going to take is Clowney.

[FkLA]

Where did I say it made them a better QB? I said small, run first QBs don't last. RGKnee as my main example.

Who do you think they should draft ?

[FkLA]

The Browns will take Manziel at 4. The only other player that isn't Bridgewater that Houston is going to take is Clowney.

Would be such a stupid move. Aside from the fact that Teddy isn't anything special they'd also be missing a golden opportunity to make a good sized dent on the control the Cowboys have on the Texas market.

[BRHornet45]

Mel Kiper knows nothing. He said Jamarcus Russel was going to be like Elway :lol

I have never seen a player more overrated than JaMarcus Russell. as much as I hate to say that as an LSU fan it's the truth and I always knew it. even when he played at LSU I was in the very small minority who couldn't stand him. all people wanted to do was talk about "he's so strong! he can kneel down on the 50 yard line and throw the ball into the end zone! so amazing!" .... but no one wanted to talk about what a complete idiot he was on and off the field. JaMarcus Russell single handily kept LSU from winning the national championship in 2006 (his third and final year as starter) in the game against Florida when he threw 3 horrible interceptions.

LSU won the national title in 2003 with an average, but smart Matt Mauck as their QB (the year before JaMarcus Russell)

LSU won the national title in 2007 with an above average and smart Matt Flynn as their QB (the first year AFTER JaMarcus Russell)

LSU should have won the national title in 2011 with an average, but smart Jarrett Lee as their QB (but Jordan Jefferson aka JaMarcus Russell Jr. and Les Miles had a special relationship going on)


point being .... don't buy into media hype and propaganda. the Oakland Raiders were fools for drafting that clown.

[benefactor]

McNair isn't Jerry. He doesn't care about drafting players that are marketable. His team is in a huge market and makes plenty of money just like it is.

If you pressed me for an opinion, I don't know that any of these QB's are going to be worth a damn at the next level. Bridgewater is the most intelligent and the most pro ready system-wise, but feels like he might wind up a game manager. Bortles has a big arm but is raw. Manziel is a gamer but it's hard to know what he will be as a pocket passer as he panics and looks to scramble at the first sign of pressure and he has benefited from having a beast WR in Evans...much like Stafford has with Megatron.

[shyne]

Hopefully Cleveland is dumb enough to trade up to get#1 giving the texans #4 and #29 I believe. That's my wish at least.
#4 Clowney/ Carr/ teddy
#29 best lb availble
#31 maybe a corner like verrett or dennard.

[Raven]

Regardless of where he gets picked he'll be a Cleveland Brown when the smoke clears. Book it. And he's exactly what this franchise needs.

i think that would be the worst possible combination.. even worse than at buffalo.

[Raven]

at this point i'm warming up to the raiders drafting johnny if he falls. the others are so damn underwhelming

that would be so fun tbh, you would never hear the end of it from me tbh :lol

[JoeTait75]

i think that would be the worst possible combination.. even worse than at buffalo.

Eh. He would have one of the best receivers in football to throw to plus a very good tight end, a Pro Bowl left tackle (Joe Thomas is overrated imo but still a very good player) and if Brian Hoyer proves to be a competent place-holder (which he very well might be) he wouldn't have to get thrown in the fire right away. I get that the Browns look like a complete mess from the outside but there is talent here to work with. Actually, I don't even think talent is the biggest issue with this team right now.

[Raven]

Eh. He would have one of the best receivers in football to throw to plus a very good tight end, a Pro Bowl left tackle (Joe Thomas is overrated imo but still a very good player) and if Brian Hoyer proves to be a competent place-holder (which he very well might be) he wouldn't have to get thrown in the fire right away. I get that the Browns look like a complete mess from the outside but there is talent here to work with. Actually, I don't even think talent is the biggest issue with this team right now.

you mean he would have a great wr to underthrow, a good te to avoid and pro bowl left tackle to misuse by scarmbling when not planned.

[BUMP]

i don't know why you dweebs are trying to ignore the new age quarterback. me, avante and creepn told ya'll 2 years ago the nfl was changing and the qb position is leading the charge. the days of the old school pocket passer are long gone. other than peyton, brees and brady, what other qb fits thats mold and is doing anything relevant?

When was the last time the super bowl was won by somebody other than an old school pocket passer? tbh

also let's not ignore the fact that Kaepernick, Newton, and Muhammad have elite defenses

[djohn2oo8]

Who do you think they should draft ?
IF they stay at number 1, Bridgewater would be the QB I'd want. I also won't be mad if they take Clowney, but there is no point in taking Manziel with Keenum already on the roster, then you'd have 2 undersized Quarterbacks who's games are almost identical, except Keenum scrambles to make a throw down the field, Manziel scrambles to run downfield. Clowney just doesn't seem that intelligent though.

[FkLA]

you mean he would have a great wr to underthrow, a good te to avoid and pro bowl left tackle to misuse by scarmbling when not planned.

Doesn't sound like you watched him play much tbh. :lol

[djohn2oo8]

When was the last time the super bowl was won by somebody other than an old school pocket passer? tbh

also let's not ignore the fact that Kaepernick, Newton, and Muhammad have elite defenses
This. Steve Young was something of a monkeyballer but much more of a pocket passer obviously. That's about it though.

[FkLA]

IF they stay at number 1, Bridgewater would be the QB I'd want. I also won't be mad if they take Clowney, but there is no point in taking Manziel with Keenum already on the roster, then you'd have 2 undersized Quarterbacks who's games are almost identical, except Keenum scrambles to make a throw down the field, Manziel scrambles to run downfield.

And you think Bridgewater is some type of franchise QB? He'll be a scrub just like the other scrub pocket passers the Texans have had. If there was an Andrew Luck in this class than no doubt you take him over Football but there isn't one. Taking a player based on size and style is beyond stupid when the smaller, unorthodox guy is far more talented.

[FkLA]

legendary pocket passer >> legendary monkeyballer
legendary monkeyballer >> scrub pocket passer

[djohn2oo8]

And you think Bridgewater is some type of franchise QB? He'll be a scrub just like the other scrub pocket passers the Texans have had. If there was an Andrew Luck in this class than no doubt you take him over Football but there isn't one. Taking a player based on size and style is beyond stupid when the smaller, unorthodox guy is far more talented.
Taking Bridgewater #1 is the safest out of the QB picks at that spot. Taking Manziel number one is likely to get alot of people fired, and you don't take undersized run first QBs number one. I never said Bridgewater would be a franchise QB because it doesn't look like there is one, but I'd like to see what O'Brien can do with him.

[BUMP]

This. Steve Young was something of a monkeyballer but much more of a pocket passer obviously. That's about it though.

Same with Rodgers/McNabb, fast enough to respect the scramble ability but ALWAYS looking to throw first. And also, Trill, let's not pretend that the NFC championship game didn't set the QB position back a few decades. And it's common knowledge to everybody except for No Lyfe that Cam would be nothing without that defense.

Monkeyballing QB's without elite defenses are too busy finishing last in their division (Pryor), getting injured (Vick), or both (RG3)

[FkLA]

04-06 Vick before he decided to start a dog fighting empire >> most pocket passers

[djohn2oo8]

04-06 Vick before he decided to start a dog fighting empire >> most pocket passers
Did he even make a Super Bowl?

[Blizzardwizard]

Bridgewater and Bortles just seem underwhelming. I think Manziel may be highest risk but definitely highest reward/upside.

[Clipper Nation]

LSU won the national title in 2003 with an average, but smart Matt Mauck as their QB (the year before JaMarcus Russell)

LSU won the national title in 2007 with an above average and smart Matt Flynn as their QB (the first year AFTER JaMarcus Russell)

LSU should have won the national title in 2011 with an average, but smart Jarrett Lee as their QB (but Jordan Jefferson aka JaMarcus Russell Jr. and Les Miles had a special relationship going on)

Son, Les is making the same mistake again by going with Anthony Jennings instead of Philbilly Jr. :lol

[FkLA]

Did he even make a Super Bowl?

NFC championship. Still had a bigger impact on his team than what most pocket passers did.

[Raven]

legendary pocket passer >> legendary monkeyballer
legendary monkeyballer >> scrub pocket passer

i don't remember a legendary monkeyballer tbh

[Raven]

Bridgewater and Bortles just seem underwhelming. I think Manziel may be highest risk but definitely highest reward/upside.

manziel obviously has the lowest reward of them all, he's pretty much the dj blair of football.. even if he prooves to be a smart player, even if he shows composure in the pocket, even if he starts making throws downfield, he still won't be able to see over Dliners.

[FkLA]

manziel obviously has the lowest reward of them all, he's pretty much the dj blair of football.. even if he prooves to be a smart player, even if he shows composure in the pocket, even if he starts making throws downfield, he still won't be able to see over Dliners.

Drew Brees must have some superhuman ability to see through dlinemen tbh. Flutie too. Vick? God knows how they ever completed a pass.

[Raven]

Drew Brees must have some superhuman ability to see through dlinemen tbh. Flutie too. Vick? God knows how they ever completed a pass.

brees is the only one you can use as an argument tbh. he also is as different from JM as it gets and you know it. You have no size, no deep ball (35+ yd), no composure in the pocket and yet you want him in the first round.. that just makes no sense to me, it also makes no sense to say he is the best qb in the draft, it's not like he plays against the other qbs, he plays against the rest of the league. If you think the qb class is shitty, then don't draft any in the first round. I understand drafting in the first round Carr, Teddy or Bortles but i can't understand how can you justify Manziel. And that doesn't mean any of those three is better than him.

[FkLA]

brees is the only one you can use as an argument tbh. he also is as different from JM as it gets and you know it. You have no size, no deep ball (35+ yd), no composure in the pocket and yet you want him in the first round..

Have you seen him play? Who told you he can't throw past 35 yds? :lol

And yeah Brees is a different player but your post basically read 'even if he fixed his flaws and became more like Brees he wouldn't be able to see past the dline'.


that just makes no sense to me, it also makes no sense to say he is the best qb in the draft, it's not like he plays against the other qbs, he plays against the rest of the league. If you think the qb class is shitty, then don't draft any in the first round. I understand drafting in the first round Carr, Teddy or Bortles but i can't understand how can you justify Manziel. And that doesn't mean any of those three is better than him.

Huh ?

[Raven]

Have you seen him play? Who told you he can't throw past 35 yds? :lol

And yeah Brees is a different player but your post basically read 'even if he fixed his flaws and became more like Brees he wouldn't be able to see past the dline'.



Huh ?
you can argue that if you want tbh, i can't tell you in an absolute way that he can't, but you can also tell that monkeyballers are the future of the league and i still couldn't say you are wrong even if it's obviously wrong.
well on those three you can argue about things, on manziel you can't because his size issues and scrambling ways are undeniable. You can argue about things like teddy is going to be a game manager or bortles has a good arm, these things really are up for debate and if someone thinks they are the deal then it's fine to draft them in the first round, but with JM there is much less to discuss about, what is obvious it's obvious.

[FkLA]

you can argue that if you want tbh, i can't tell you in an absolute way that he can't, but you can also tell that monkeyballers are the future of the league and i still couldn't say you are wrong even if it's obviously wrong.

It is not arguable at all. Football's arm isn't elite but it also isn't Tebow/Vince-esque.

How much did you see of him at A&M ?


well on those three you can argue about things, on manziel you can't because his size issues and scrambling ways are undeniable. You can argue about things like teddy is going to be a game manager or bortles has a good arm, these things really are up for debate and if someone thinks they are the deal then it's fine to draft them in the first round, but with JM there is much less to discuss about, what is obvious it's obvious.

You also can't argue about the level of competition Bortles and Bridgewater faced. Meanwhile Johnny was slicing up SEC defenses (through the air and ground) on a weekly basis. Johnny was more dominant against better competition, that is undeniable.

[Raven]

It is not arguable at all. Football's arm isn't elite but it also isn't Tebow/Vince-esque.

How much did you see of him at A&M ?



You also can't argue about the level of competition Bortles and Bridgewater faced. Meanwhile Johnny was slicing up SEC defenses (through the air and ground) on a weekly basis. Johnny was more dominant against better competition, that is undeniable.

i saw 5 games, the team somehow had great streams all year so i happened to come across his games pretty often. And you don't need to be tebow to not have an nfl arm, there are a lot of nfl starters who suck at throwing, that's not really hard to find. I'm trying to see a point as to why would a gm draft a qb with a bad arm and bad size in the first round. even if you happen to misjude all his other issues, i can't find out how can someone avoid those. Then again i was prepared to bet on no qb in the first round last year, and somehow buffalo drafted a monkeyballer who can't throw (but at least has some arm strength), so i'm not saying that won't happen anymore.

[FkLA]

i saw 5 games, the team somehow had great streams all year so i happened to come across his games pretty often. And you don't need to be tebow to not have an nfl arm, there are a lot of nfl starters who suck at throwing, that's not really hard to find. I'm trying to see a point as to why would a gm draft a qb with a bad arm and bad size in the first round. even if you happen to misjude all his other issues, i can't find out how can someone avoid those. Then again i was prepared to bet on no qb in the first round last year, and somehow buffalo drafted a monkeyballer who can't throw (but at least has some arm strength), so i'm not saying that won't happen anymore.

His arm strength isn't an issue. You're way off base there. The consensus is that he has a good arm tbh.

[BUMP]

:lol

Raven is always all over the place in his arguments

[Raven]

His arm strength isn't an issue. You're way off base there. The consensus is that he has a good arm tbh.

"good" arm strength is not good enough at the next level.

[FkLA]

"good" arm strength is not good enough at the next level.

Not good enough for what ?

[spurraider21]

if Manziel can be as good as Russell Wilson he's more than worth the pick tbh

[djohn2oo8]

"good" arm strength is not good enough at the next level.
Actually, accuracy matters more than Arm strength.

[Raven]

Not good enough for what ?

for being an nfl franchise qb, which is what i expect to have in a qb drafted in the first round.

[Raven]

Actually, accuracy matters more than Arm strength.

fair point, but i didn't deny that.

[JoeTait75]

"good" arm strength is not good enough at the next level.

Arm strength is hardly a be-all, end-all. Derek Anderson and Brandon Weeden have cannons for arms and you see how much good it's done them. And nothing I've seen from JFF indicates that he has a Colt McCoy-esque noodle arm or anything like that. "Good" arm strength is good enough if you're accurate and make good decisions.

[Raven]

Arm strength is hardly a be-all, end-all. Derek Anderson and Brandon Weeden have cannons for arms and you see how much good it's done them. And nothing I've seen from JFF indicates that he has a Colt McCoy-esque noodle arm or anything like that. "Good" arm strength is good enough if you're accurate and make good decisions.

where did i say it's a be all? Weeden's problem is that his release is slow as fuck.. I wouldn't say Manziel is much better in that... manziel will be a huge bust, that's all i'm saying. You're free to call me out if i'm wrong in four years or so.

[FkLA]

You're entitled to your opinion but your reasoning (weak arm, slow release) for why hell be a bust is what makes no sense tbh.

[Chinook]

Eh. He would have one of the best receivers in football to throw to plus a very good tight end, a Pro Bowl left tackle (Joe Thomas is overrated imo but still a very good player) and if Brian Hoyer proves to be a competent place-holder (which he very well might be) he wouldn't have to get thrown in the fire right away. I get that the Browns look like a complete mess from the outside but there is talent here to work with. Actually, I don't even think talent is the biggest issue with this team right now.

Not even close to the biggest issue. They are about two years behind the Bengals on the talent curve a good coach and another solid draft, and they SHOULD be a playoff team. If it weren't for the Cleveland stink (no offense), they'd be a great ready-made destination for a free-agent QB like Denver and Minnesota were. Unfortunately, I don't think there will be another Manning or Farve on the market in 2015. Maybe Kaep is the best they could do.

[JoeTait75]

where did i say it's a be all? Weeden's problem is that his release is slow as fuck.. I wouldn't say Manziel is much better in that... manziel will be a huge bust, that's all i'm saying. You're free to call me out if i'm wrong in four years or so.

I have my own concerns about JFF. I think he could be a turnover machine for at least his first few years in the league. He may have that Namath/Favre mentality where he'll try and make a play when the play isn't necessarily there. But I believe he has NFL skills and of all the QBs that will be at the top of the draft he just seems like the most dynamic playmaker. The other guys- Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr- they just don't really stand out to me.

[JoeTait75]

Not even close to the biggest issue. They are about two years behind the Bengals on the talent curve a good coach and another solid draft, and they SHOULD be a playoff team. If it weren't for the Cleveland stink (no offense), they'd be a great ready-made destination for a free-agent QB like Denver and Minnesota were. Unfortunately, I don't think there will be another Manning or Farve on the market in 2015. Maybe Kaep is the best they could do.

A lot of it is cultural. They've lost so much for so long that it's become ingrained. And there has never been an urgency about winning- it's always been about two or three years down the road. There's a mentality here that it's okay to lose because the team is always building for some time in the future. It's never been about winning now. It's always about "development" or "learning the system" or "progress" or whatever. It's a losing mentality that permeates the roster, the front office, ownership, even the fans. I think this team has enough talent to be competitive- not great, but competitive- right now. But the mentality has to change.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I have my own concerns about JFF. I think he could be a turnover machine for at least his first few years in the league. He may have that Namath/Favre mentality where he'll try and make a play when the play isn't necessarily there. But I believe he has NFL skills and of all the QBs that will be at the top of the draft he just seems like the most dynamic playmaker. The other guys- Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr- they just don't really stand out to me.

Do you think there's any chance they keep Alex Mack? He's gonna get PAID by one of the many teams with huge cap room if Cleveland doesn't franchise him.

It would be great to see Cleveland draft Kadeem Carey in the 2nd or 3rd to replace T-Rich and be successful with him. Maybe I'm just being a homer, but I think Kadeem has a few special years in him. He'll have the same short shelf life running backs have today, but I can't remember a RB who hits holes as quickly as he does and with as much explosion. He won't have the problem young RBs have where he bounces around in the backfield all day, he's a natural downhill runner.

[Pelicans78]

Do you think there's any chance they keep Alex Mack? He's gonna get PAID by one of the many teams with huge cap room if Cleveland doesn't franchise him.

It would be great to see Cleveland draft Kadeem Carey in the 2nd or 3rd to replace T-Rich and be successful with him. Maybe I'm just being a homer, but I think Kadeem has a few special years in him. He'll have the same short shelf life running backs have today, but I can't remember a RB who hits holes as quickly as he does and with as much explosion. He won't have the problem young RBs have where he bounces around in the backfield all day, he's a natural downhill runner.

I totally agree about Carey. He is fantastic and will be a perennial Pro Bowler if healthy and playing with a competent organization.

[JoeTait75]

Do you think there's any chance they keep Alex Mack? He's gonna get PAID by one of the many teams with huge cap room if Cleveland doesn't franchise him.

No, I think he's gone. I don't think the regime wants to give a center big money and I don't think he wants to be here anyway. My guess is they'll franchise T.J. Ward and let Mack walk.

As far as running backs go, naturally everyone around here wants them to take Carlos Hyde. What I like about the current regime, though, is that they don't cater to the fans. If they like Kadeem Carey better than Hyde they'll take him. I haven't seen Arizona play enough to give an educated opinion.

[FkLA]

Carey is the truth tbh.

[Chinook]

A lot of it is cultural. They've lost so much for so long that it's become ingrained. And there has never been an urgency about winning- it's always been about two or three years down the road. There's a mentality here that it's okay to lose because the team is always building for some time in the future. It's never been about winning now. It's always about "development" or "learning the system" or "progress" or whatever. It's a losing mentality that permeates the roster, the front office, ownership, even the fans. I think this team has enough talent to be competitive- not great, but competitive- right now. But the mentality has to change.

That's why a legit vet QB would be so good. They bring hope and credibility. Sure Manziel brings hope, but he's still very likely to bust. I guess that's a risk they have to take.

[spurraider21]

i hope the raiders sign mack and resign veldheer. Stefen Wisniewski had a good rookie season at left guard. he's been solid at center, but the problem is since he shifted over, left guard became a massive hole. with Mack at center, Wiz can slide back and we could have a pretty beastly left side of the line

[Raven]

A lot of it is cultural. They've lost so much for so long that it's become ingrained. And there has never been an urgency about winning- it's always been about two or three years down the road. There's a mentality here that it's okay to lose because the team is always building for some time in the future. It's never been about winning now. It's always about "development" or "learning the system" or "progress" or whatever. It's a losing mentality that permeates the roster, the front office, ownership, even the fans. I think this team has enough talent to be competitive- not great, but competitive- right now. But the mentality has to change.

i agree with that and that's why i consider this the worst spot for JM. He'd try to force his way to a win by "cheating", which would lead to even more TOs.

[djohn2oo8]

I'd rather us trade back and rob the Browns of draft picks this year and a first next year.

[benefactor]

Good read on why Manziel is a bad fit for Houston.


Some might contend that it is unfair to say most of Manziel’s success came outside of the structure of Kevin Sumlin’s offense. In his two year career, Manziel’s two worst statistical games were both against LSU. Last year, I noticed while watching film of Barkevious Mingo that LSU employed a "mush rush" against Manziel, meaning that the line all held their respective points of attack and made Manziel pass from within the pocket.

This season LSU employed the same defensive strategy. In two games against LSU, Manziel was 45 of 97 (46%) for 500 total yards. 250 yards per game doesn’t sound terrible until you dive deeper and realize that’s 5.2 yards per attempt. The most damning statistic is his 1/5 TD to INT ratio. Manziel simply couldn’t exploit LSU’s secondary despite facing little pressure, which was by design.

http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/1/29/5358694/petitions-and-billboards-aside-why-johnny-manziel-is-not-an-option

[Clipper Nation]

Inbred is just another gimmick quarterback who can't make plays from the pocket, tbh.... :lol Aggy

[djohn2oo8]

Honestly, how many people would know who Clowney is if it weren't for that one hit?

[Clipper Nation]

Honestly, how many people would know who Clowney is if it weren't for that one hit?

He's also well known for quitting and mailing it in his last year after talking shit at media day about how everyone was scared of him :lol

[djohn2oo8]

Really fucking tired of this Manziel hype.

[Lincoln]

Didn't kiper say he would quit if clausen failed in the nfl? Lemme see if I can find a quote

[djohn2oo8]

^:lol He was soooo pissed when Clausen kept dropping in the draft.

[benefactor]

Didn't kiper say he would quit if clausen failed in the nfl? Lemme see if I can find a quote
:lol:lol

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/19/mcshay-kiper-draw-their-final-battle-lines-on-jimmy-clausen/