The Lakers are in great shape in the final 4 right now

[Thebesteva]

Of course I'm speaking on competing with Utah, Orlando, and Milwaukee for that #1 pick. We are exactly where we want to be, the worst seed (Mil) usually doesn't end up with the first pick. We also lost 12 of the last 13 and are on pace to lose every game from here on out.

After we draft #1 (Wiggens or Parker whoever is better I dunno), we need to get Kevin Love whose hurtin for a Laker squirtin according to a few GM's, and eventually have Phil Jackson and Jeanie Buss run the operations and take over Fredo.

This franchise may be legit again by 2016-17, which is not so horrible considering the 180 they have gone through.

[Clipper Nation]

Nah, Fredo will still be in charge and Kirby will run your lottery pick offPERIOD

[Thebesteva]

Nah, Fredo will still be in charge and Kirby will run your lottery pick offPERIOD

I'm really shocked at Kobe's "business skills," he is one of few athletes in sports that has a BRAND name. It's going to be hard to convince these monkey's to buy shoes from a guy who missed the playoffs for the last 4 years of his career.

[AchillesHeel]

Lakers will get the best player out of this draft and he will rescue Kirbys last 2 seasons

[Thebesteva]

Lakers will get the best player out of this draft and he will rescue Kirbys last 2 seasons

:lol Quite possibly the best sig in a while but wtf is that in Ray Allen's mind?

[Reck]

:lol Quite possibly the best sig in a while but wtf is that in Ray Allen's mind?

At first I thought it was a bed since Ray is like a 100 years old but I just realized that's Jame's cock region. :lol

[Thebesteva]

At first I thought it was a bed since Ray is like a 100 years old but I just realized that's Jame's cock region. :lol


:lol oh snap. Fuck Gay Allen...biggest POS in the league next to Lebronze

[AchillesHeel]

:lol Quite possibly the best sig in a while but wtf is that in Ray Allen's mind?

Shadowflames answered the question but I think the funniest part about that pic is Chris Bosh & Dwyane Wade's face :lol

[Thebesteva]

Shadowflames answered the question but I think the funniest part about that pic is Chris Bosh & Dwyane Wade's face :lol

Bosh?

[Stalin]

nice sig, lol

[AchillesHeel]

Bosh?

on the right side

[DeadlyDynasty]

Some Lakerfan on here said the best strategy was to tank for a top pick. Can't recall exactly who it was, but that man is a genius.

[z0sa]

Kirby withstanding, of course ...

[Rogue]

Lakers should thank Buss's soul that they traded their 13' pick to Phoenix, not the 14' one. It's not like a matter of choice that they are tanking right now imho. they're "tanking" because they have no other choice. They tried to win games at the begging of the season but still had a hard time winning even half their games, and it became even harder for them with about half their payroll frozen in a 36yr old broken knee.

[Dex]

I thought the Lakers didn't tank? I thought they just won and bought championships?

[Splits]

^they don't tank!

they use ratios.

[jimbo]

There's so much talent in this draft, it's nearly impossibly for the Lakers to screw it up. Add in a splash free agent or two when Kobe's contract is off the books and you're contenders again.

Tbh, it actually should be easy to build a winning team using D'Antoni's system for the Lakers.

[DMC]

You could take every player from this draft and still not rescue the Lackers. The talent just isn't there.

[DMC]

There's so much talent in this draft, it's nearly impossibly for the Lakers to screw it up. Add in a splash free agent or two when Kobe's contract is off the books and you're contenders again.

Tbh, it actually should be easy to build a winning team using D'Antoni's system for the Lakers.

I hope that's sarcasm.

[jimbo]

I hope that's sarcasm.

1) I can't imagine you actually have the time to watch college basketball.

2) The Lakers are basically starting from scratch after 15-16 and Kobe's the only one signed during 15-16.

[Clipper Nation]

There's so much talent in this draft, it's nearly impossibly for the Lakers to screw it up.
"Challenge accepted"
- Fredo

:lol

[DMC]

1) I can't imagine you actually have the time to watch college basketball.

2) The Lakers are basically starting from scratch after 15-16 and Kobe's the only one signed during 15-16.

3) There's no Tim Duncan or Shaq in the draft. There are non All Star players in the league better than anyone in the draft.

[jimbo]

3) There's no Tim Duncan or Shaq in the draft. There are non All Star players in the league better than anyone in the draft.

How many games of college basketball do you watch per week? Don't lie.

[DMC]

How many games of college basketball do you watch per week? Don't lie.

I didn't watch HS ball but knew Lebron was a bad ass. I knew Tim and Shaq were badasses as well.

I know who Wiggins and Parker are. When is the last time a 1st overall pick made a shitty franchise into a competitive one? Davis is one of the best 1st overall picks in quite some time.

Come back in a few months and call me out if I'm wrong.

[Splits]

There's so much talent in this draft, it's nearly impossibly for the Lakers to screw it up. Add in a splash free agent or two when Kobe's contract is off the books and you're contenders again.

Tbh, it actually should be easy to build a winning team using D'Antoni's system for the Lakers.

No, no, no, and no. Horrible take. The new CBA made it nearly impossible for the Laker-types to continue buying rings unless star players agree to take pay cuts. When's the last time a 19yr old changed the face of a franchise and made a lottery team a contender?

[Suspect]

:lol worst team in Cali

[Killakobe81]

:lol worst team in Cali

Yep the worst. With win over Clips, Kings and Warriors ... and your Rockets too ...
If we can sneak in a win over Celts, Mavs and Spurs this will be a great season if we get a top 3 pick.

Man, has the bar been lowered ...:(

[Suspect]

yeah, lakers are better than those teams. you're right

[DPG21920]

:lmao how will they lose when Kobe returns though? Lakers don't tank and they didn't pay Kobe a ton of money to lose..

[DeadlyDynasty]

Dumbass niggas reversing themselves and hoping for Laker wins now:rollin

Eat shit, faggots...Randle, Parker, or Wiggins will be ours

[Killakobe81]

yeah, lakers are better than those teams. you're right

No we are not ... which makes those losses even more surprising. I think each of those teams has also came back and beat the Lakers by double digits.
I wasn't being sarcastic, if you could tell by my "bar lowered" comment. Just saying it's funny we have beat those teams which is simply a fact.

[jimbo]

I didn't watch HS ball but knew Lebron was a bad ass. I knew Tim and Shaq were badasses as well.

I know who Wiggins and Parker are. When is the last time a 1st overall pick made a shitty franchise into a competitive one? Davis is one of the best 1st overall picks in quite some time.

Come back in a few months and call me out if I'm wrong.

Let me boil this down, tell me if I've missed anything. You don't watch college basketball, but you already know that players in this draft aren't of the Lebron/Shaq/Duncan caliber because ... you haven't heard about them as much? Their highlights haven't impressed you as much? I'm honestly not sure what facts you're basing your opinion off of, if any. What you know is either what someone told you, or cherry picked for you to watch. (Like 99% of basketball fans anyways, myself included. If you're not getting paid for it, no one has the time to watch all these guys play enough to actually get a feel for them.)

and tbh

1) A few months isn't enough time to declare a pick (or a draft) a bust or a boom. You need years.

2) If you're just making this opinion based on intuition, what does this prove? That your intuition was right? It's like sitting at the blackjack table and standing on 16 when the dealer has a face card because you "feel" it's the right move. Intuition moves are the wrong play, period. (The analogy only holds true if you believe there's an element of luck involved in drafting players. I don't know if you believe that)

If your intuition really is that good, you should try your luck in Vegas or become a scout for an NBA team. If you can predict this well with limited information, imagine how good you'd be once you've actually seen the players play.


No, no, no, and no. Horrible take. The new CBA made it nearly impossible for the Laker-types to continue buying rings unless star players agree to take pay cuts. When's the last time a 19yr old changed the face of a franchise and made a lottery team a contender?

You don't have to do that. The Lakers have essentially done what Riles did with the Heat in managing to get every contract except Kobe's off their books, and then a year later Kobe's is gone. Whoever they draft will be on his rookie contract till what, 2017? So instead of having 3 max guys like the Heat, you can have the guy on his rookie contract at 6~ mil and another guy with a max and still have a ton of cap space to sign complimentary players. It's like what the Clippers did, but the Lakers have even more flexibility.

Not to mention that it should be an easy sell to recruit guys to help "rebuild LA." "Come be a lynchpin in the new era of the Lakers franchise." You know some guys would bite on that.

As for franchise changing players you've got Rose, Dwight, KD, and Anthony Davis in a few years. Griffin did to a degree, they weren't "contenders" (using this loosely) until they got CP3. But that's the same kind of scenario I'm talking about. One guy isn't gonna take you to the Finals by himself anyways.

Paul George is the centerpiece of a Pacers team that's made a good turnaround too. My main point is that the Lakers have a good chance at drafting a guy in the caliber of those above and have the cap space to put him in a good situation to succeed. They've just got to play their cards right.

[RsxPiimp]

We need a big man, plain and simple. There are plenty of players like Wiggins or Parker'. Legit 7-'0 feet tall with a knack for protecting the rim and great footwork don't grow on trees.

Embiid is that nigga!

http://s2.djyimg.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2013/12/Georgetown_Kansas_Bas_Cuth_NYOTK_AP-1024x835.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/M9GKmGE.jpg


http://youtu.be/z1lgI-8np7w

[RsxPiimp]

If we can get Embiid and that Alpha fuck Westbrook in the offseason, we're off to a great rebuilding start tbh.

[Koolaid_Man]

We need a big man, plain and simple. There are plenty of players like Wiggins or Parker'. Legit 7-'0 feet tall with a knack for protecting the rim and great footwork don't grow on trees.

Embiid is that nigga!

http://s2.djyimg.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2013/12/Georgetown_Kansas_Bas_Cuth_NYOTK_AP-1024x835.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/M9GKmGE.jpg


http://youtu.be/z1lgI-8np7w


he looks like a nice Specimen....I beleive the darker the skin the better the potential

[DMC]

Let me boil this down, tell me if I've missed anything. You don't watch college basketball, but you already know that players in this draft aren't of the Lebron/Shaq/Duncan caliber because ... you haven't heard about them as much? Their highlights haven't impressed you as much? I'm honestly not sure what facts you're basing your opinion off of, if any. What you know is either what someone told you, or cherry picked for you to watch. (Like 99% of basketball fans anyways, myself included. If you're not getting paid for it, no one has the time to watch all these guys play enough to actually get a feel for them.)

For all we know the 57th overall pick could be the caliber of Ginobili or better. I'd not bet on it though. If the Spurs landed either Wiggins or Parker, they'd be beasts. On a shitty franchise that's going to land them, they'll be stat gathering until trade time comes. LA doesn't develop talent. This we know.

What I believe (we cannot know the future) is that the Lakers are far enough in the hole that one fresh face from college isn't going to dig them out of it. Until Kobe retires, that's how it's going to be. I also know that established NBA players are better than rookies. There are very few exceptions to this. Where is Shabazz? How's Bennett doing? Would Kyrie Irving make the Lakers competitors? Would Anthony Davis make them competitors?

The Lakers' suffer from identity crisis; they don't have anything but Kobe as an identity and though they might play well without him if everyone is healthy, they must play with him if he's healthy. That's their ceiling. No rookie is going to fix that, the LA front office won't allow it unless Kobe went all David and Tim and passed the torch, but I don't see that happening.



and tbh

1) A few months isn't enough time to declare a pick (or a draft) a bust or a boom. You need years.

Which is why I say established players are better, maybe not in the long run but we aren't talking 5 years down the road. That's past the contract period anyhow.


2) If you're just making this opinion based on intuition, what does this prove? That your intuition was right? It's like sitting at the blackjack table and standing on 16 when the dealer has a face card because you "feel" it's the right move. Intuition moves are the wrong play, period. (The analogy only holds true if you believe there's an element of luck involved in drafting players. I don't know if you believe that)

If your intuition really is that good, you should try your luck in Vegas or become a scout for an NBA team. If you can predict this well with limited information, imagine how good you'd be once you've actually seen the players play.


I can look at the building where the blackjack table resides and decide that the house wins most of the time. I'd not sit down. Common sense dictates that players who have established games already in the NBA are more valuable than unknown "potential" players unless you get a monster.

James Harden was drafted after Thabeet. Now you tell me that people didn't think Thabeet would be better for a team than Harden would be. Now you have Harden as the face of the franchise in Houston, and he could do more to turn the Lakers around than Howard did (not saying much tbh) but even then Kobe would have to sign off on it. I don't need to know the hole card to know Kobe isn't going to sign off on it.

[Koolaid_Man]

Let me boil this down, tell me if I've missed anything. You don't watch college basketball, but you already know that players in this draft aren't of the Lebron/Shaq/Duncan caliber because ... you haven't heard about them as much? Their highlights haven't impressed you as much? I'm honestly not sure what facts you're basing your opinion off of, if any. What you know is either what someone told you, or cherry picked for you to watch. (Like 99% of basketball fans anyways, myself included. If you're not getting paid for it, no one has the time to watch all these guys play enough to actually get a feel for them.)

and tbh

1) A few months isn't enough time to declare a pick (or a draft) a bust or a boom. You need years.

2) If you're just making this opinion based on intuition, what does this prove? That your intuition was right? It's like sitting at the blackjack table and standing on 16 when the dealer has a face card because you "feel" it's the right move. Intuition moves are the wrong play, period. (The analogy only holds true if you believe there's an element of luck involved in drafting players. I don't know if you believe that)

If your intuition really is that good, you should try your luck in Vegas or become a scout for an NBA team. If you can predict this well with limited information, imagine how good you'd be once you've actually seen the players play.



You don't have to do that. The Lakers have essentially done what Riles did with the Heat in managing to get every contract except Kobe's off their books, and then a year later Kobe's is gone. Whoever they draft will be on his rookie contract till what, 2017? So instead of having 3 max guys like the Heat, you can have the guy on his rookie contract at 6~ mil and another guy with a max and still have a ton of cap space to sign complimentary players. It's like what the Clippers did, but the Lakers have even more flexibility.

Not to mention that it should be an easy sell to recruit guys to help "rebuild LA." "Come be a lynchpin in the new era of the Lakers franchise." You know some guys would bite on that.

As for franchise changing players you've got Rose, Dwight, KD, and Anthony Davis in a few years. Griffin did to a degree, they weren't "contenders" (using this loosely) until they got CP3. But that's the same kind of scenario I'm talking about. One guy isn't gonna take you to the Finals by himself anyways.

Paul George is the centerpiece of a Pacers team that's made a good turnaround too. My main point is that the Lakers have a good chance at drafting a guy in the caliber of those above and have the cap space to put him in a good situation to succeed. They've just got to play their cards right.

:lol dam you cleaned DMC's ass out with a spoon...now feed it to him

[RsxPiimp]

he looks like a nice Specimen....I beleive the darker the skin the better the potential

We need to continue this tradition of making every team jealous of the Lakers Kool, we on hiatus now, but no doubt we'll be back :toast

[RsxPiimp]

Let me boil this down, tell me if I've missed anything. You don't watch college basketball, but you already know that players in this draft aren't of the Lebron/Shaq/Duncan caliber because ... you haven't heard about them as much? Their highlights haven't impressed you as much? I'm honestly not sure what facts you're basing your opinion off of, if any. What you know is either what someone told you, or cherry picked for you to watch. (Like 99% of basketball fans anyways, myself included. If you're not getting paid for it, no one has the time to watch all these guys play enough to actually get a feel for them.)

and tbh

1) A few months isn't enough time to declare a pick (or a draft) a bust or a boom. You need years.

2) If you're just making this opinion based on intuition, what does this prove? That your intuition was right? It's like sitting at the blackjack table and standing on 16 when the dealer has a face card because you "feel" it's the right move. Intuition moves are the wrong play, period. (The analogy only holds true if you believe there's an element of luck involved in drafting players. I don't know if you believe that)

If your intuition really is that good, you should try your luck in Vegas or become a scout for an NBA team. If you can predict this well with limited information, imagine how good you'd be once you've actually seen the players play.



You don't have to do that. The Lakers have essentially done what Riles did with the Heat in managing to get every contract except Kobe's off their books, and then a year later Kobe's is gone. Whoever they draft will be on his rookie contract till what, 2017? So instead of having 3 max guys like the Heat, you can have the guy on his rookie contract at 6~ mil and another guy with a max and still have a ton of cap space to sign complimentary players. It's like what the Clippers did, but the Lakers have even more flexibility.

Not to mention that it should be an easy sell to recruit guys to help "rebuild LA." "Come be a lynchpin in the new era of the Lakers franchise." You know some guys would bite on that.

As for franchise changing players you've got Rose, Dwight, KD, and Anthony Davis in a few years. Griffin did to a degree, they weren't "contenders" (using this loosely) until they got CP3. But that's the same kind of scenario I'm talking about. One guy isn't gonna take you to the Finals by himself anyways.

Paul George is the centerpiece of a Pacers team that's made a good turnaround too. My main point is that the Lakers have a good chance at drafting a guy in the caliber of those above and have the cap space to put him in a good situation to succeed. They've just got to play their cards right.

Damn jimbo going ham on DMC :lol

[DMC]

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[RsxPiimp]

:lmao I honestly thought at one point you actually knew me DMC, But simply googling RSXPiimp is not gonna cut it son. Try again. :lol

That Clipperfan is probably StrengthAndHonor :lmao

[Koolaid_Man]

We need to continue this tradition of making every team jealous of the Lakers Kool, we on hiatus now, but no doubt we'll be back :toast

We're in the drivers seat as far as I'm concerned. Listen when you compare Kobe to Duncan ask yourself...of the two who's the last one to win a title? Which team is positioned for signing a big time free agent in the summer (Melo) and getting a top 3 pick in the draft? Meanwhile the Spurs are doing what they've always done looking good in the regular season...they lucked up and got back last year due to all the injuries in the Western conference but 6 proves they had no business what-so-ever being there in the first place...they're history now...we're poised to win another title in the next two yrs...

[Koolaid_Man]

:lmao I honestly thought at one point you actually knew me DMC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20665), But simply googling RSXPiimp is not gonna cut it son. Try again. :lol

That Clipperfan is probably StrengthAndHonor (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42778) :lmao

He's trying to focus on you because Jimbo owned him...he and DPG trying to figure out how to Spin Jimbo's comments :lmao

[StrengthAndHonor]

:lmao I honestly thought at one point you actually knew me DMC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20665), But simply googling RSXPiimp is not gonna cut it son. Try again. :lol

That Clipperfan is probably StrengthAndHonor (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42778) :lmao

No. I don't go out decked out in Clippers gear, matter of fact no one does, except Keith Closs. :lol

[DMC]

:lmao I honestly thought at one point you actually knew me DMC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20665), But simply googling RSXPiimp is not gonna cut it son. Try again. :lol

That Clipperfan is probably StrengthAndHonor (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42778) :lmao

So many people use that handle these days.

[Suspect]

No we are not ... which makes those losses even more surprising. I think each of those teams has also came back and beat the Lakers by double digits.
I wasn't being sarcastic, if you could tell by my "bar lowered" comment. Just saying it's funny we have beat those teams which is simply a fact.
Miami lost to the wizards. Shit happens tbh

[DPG21920]

Every year, educated fans call out before it happens, despite watching less film/games of prospects than scouts, players that won't be very good. Every year, teams that get paid to draft fail miserably at it. In fact, most do. It's because it is very difficult to evaluate a 19 year old: their drive, intangibles & game.

Not only that, its incredibly rare that you get that de facto 1 player like Duncan/Shaq/Lebron...There aren't even that many 1b guys. Lakers are completely terrible. Kobe isn't even a 1b any more and probably a very questionable 2. Not only that, there does not appear to be that true 1 guy in the draft.

From a fan perspective (and I admit this is completely anecdotal) if you understand basketball, watching a guy play 5-6 times in addition to other research usually gives you a decent perspective. Not a GM's perspective who are talking to coaches, going to practices & watching literally every game a player has played in, but a solid perspective to make educated guesses.

The reality is it's just hard, even for pro's but I have no doubt many people who at least do what I said from a fan perspective and understand basketball can peg a player reasonably well. The difference is we look at it solely from a basketball perspective. FO's look at all factors including marketing potential...They also look at it from an "upside" perspective more than we do and have a lot more pressure which often times pigeon holes them into making decisions they don't like.

When you start comparing players to Duncan, Durant & Lebron, the expectation is that they pretty much turn a franchise that is bad into at least a fringe contender. When you watch Wiggins, you have to imagine what Lebron would have done at the same age if placed in the exact same situation. I guarantee you that Kansas wouldn't be ranked 18th in the country and that Lebron would be far ahead of Wiggins.

The point is - outside of landing a Lebron, no one is coming into to LA that is turning them into a contender even if Kobe can be a viable #2 on a title team. There aren't Lebron level FA's nor Lebron level draft picks. Doesn't mean LA can't be a playoff team if things go well, but any significant jump in LA's talent will be 2+ years down the road.

[DPG21920]

LA still has built in advantages, but the luster has worn off some. It's not like it used to be. With Kobe's deal, the best they can do is sign one more Max FA next year. That would make it Kobe/Max FA/Draft pick and a bunch of weaker players.

Regardless, LA is doing the right thing intentional or not. They are setting themselves up for the best draft pick possible. Their moves before this (Kobe contract, letting Dwight walk...) have hurt and it's the moves after (which FA's, which draft pick(s)) that will dictate how things actually turn out obviously.

[whitemamba]

LA still has built in advantages, but the luster has worn off some. It's not like it used to be. With Kobe's deal, the best they can do is sign one more Max FA next year. That would make it Kobe/Max FA/Draft pick and a bunch of weaker players.

Regardless, LA is doing the right thing intentional or not. They are setting themselves up for the best draft pick possible. Their moves before this (Kobe contract, letting Dwight walk...) have hurt and it's the moves after (which FA's, which draft pick(s)) that will dictate how things actually turn out obviously.

This is true, buss really kicked the franchise in the nuts with that extension, at this point all we can do is try to sign 1 more star, and work the draft, but unless a miracle happens, we are not contending anytime soon.

[DMC]

This is true, buss really kicked the franchise in the nuts with that extension, at this point all we can do is try to sign 1 more star, and work the draft, but unless a miracle happens, we are not contending anytime soon.

I agree with DPG, but I don't think Buss had an option tbh. Kobe makes a shit ton of money for that team. They had to hold on to him. He might have signed for less but maybe not. Securing him as the face of their organization for two more years probably makes them more money than they spend on him. I think they decided they weren't going to win when Howard walked.

[Koolaid_Man]

Every year, educated fans call out before it happens, despite watching less film/games of prospects than scouts, players that won't be very good. Every year, teams that get paid to draft fail miserably at it. In fact, most do. It's because it is very difficult to evaluate a 19 year old: their drive, intangibles & game.

Not only that, its incredibly rare that you get that de facto 1 player like Duncan/Shaq/Lebron...There aren't even that many 1b guys. Lakers are completely terrible. Kobe isn't even a 1b any more and probably a very questionable 2. Not only that, there does not appear to be that true 1 guy in the draft. - Since you're so incredibly small in stature I can see how Shaq's and Lebron's girth would amaze you...but fact is: Kobe 2 Shaq 1 or Kobe 5 Duncan 4 or Kobe 5 Lebronze 2....of all the players listed 2 have Bronze medals and Shaq has 0 medals...:lol

From a fan perspective (and I admit this is completely anecdotal) if you understand basketball, watching a guy play 5-6 times in addition to other research usually gives you a decent perspective. Not a GM's perspective who are talking to coaches, going to practices & watching literally every game a player has played in, but a solid perspective to make educated guesses.

The reality is it's just hard, even for pro's but I have no doubt many people who at least do what I said from a fan perspective and understand basketball can peg a player reasonably well. The difference is we look at it solely from a basketball perspective. FO's look at all factors including marketing potential...They also look at it from an "upside" perspective more than we do and have a lot more pressure which often times pigeon holes them into making decisions they don't like.

When you start comparing players to Duncan, Durant & Lebron, the expectation is that they pretty much turn a franchise that is bad into at least a fringe contender. When you watch Wiggins, you have to imagine what Lebron would have done at the same age if placed in the exact same situation. I guarantee you that Kansas wouldn't be ranked 18th in the country and that Lebron would be far ahead of Wiggins.

The point is - outside of landing a Lebron, no one is coming into to LA that is turning them into a contender even if Kobe can be a viable #2 on a title team. There aren't Lebron level FA's nor Lebron level draft picks. Doesn't mean LA can't be a playoff team if things go well, but any significant jump in LA's talent will be 2+ years down the road. So what's Lebron level...dude just now won his first title after 10 yrs in plus one is from a locked out season :lmao no one needs a juiced up high schooler like Lebronze they need a great player with potential and that's just what we're gonna pick little man :lol


See Kool's comments in red

[Koolaid_Man]

I agree with DPG, but I don't think Buss had an option tbh. Kobe makes a shit ton of money for that team. They had to hold on to him. He might have signed for less but maybe not. Securing him as the face of their organization for two more years probably makes them more money than they spend on him. I think they decided they weren't going to win when Howard walked.


of course you do...you got totally owned by Jimbo

[Koolaid_Man]

This is true, buss really kicked the franchise in the nuts with that extension, at this point all we can do is try to sign 1 more star, and work the draft, but unless a miracle happens, we are not contending anytime soon.

In Buss I trust

[spurraider21]

the Lakers aren't in a spot where they just need to add pieces. they need to assemble an entire roster. that is not going to be a 1-2 year fix

[DPG21920]

Exactly. Not only that, they are in a tight spot financially due to the CBA and their current contracts. Let's say the Lakers draft a guy who is as good as advertised. They still need to build a team within the next two years that is finals caliber. They have some money, but depending on who they sign, it could dry up fast.

If they sign a max player, it will be very, very difficult to contend. It would take Kobe being a healthy, 1b. It will take that max player being a good fit with Kobe and being a 1a. It will take their draft pick playing like a ROY/legit star in the first 2 years and it would take LA landing some league min/small contract guys that just really fit a play well. You can see how that will be tough for many reasons:

1) Kobe's health and abilities
2) What star FA's are available that not only can be 1a's in the right situation, but reasonably fit next to Kobe?
3) Draft picks playing like stars on title contenders in their first two years is tough
4) Small contract guys coming up Aces (which LA has done decently well as of late) is tough

The other scenario is the same, but instead of a max guy, you sign a couple more depth guys in that 6-10M range to increase your depth and fit. To me, that is likely the easiest and best strategy but very tough. A lot depends on where Kobe is at physically and the impact he can have on games for a team making a run to a title.

[RD2191]

the Lakers aren't in a spot where they just need to add pieces. they need to assemble an entire roster. that is not going to be a 1-2 year fix

Tbh

[spurraider21]

yep. some people in the thread act like having cap space and being in the lottery is a surefire route to contending shortly, yet there are plenty of teams that are stuck in shitty situations despite constantly finding themselves in those positions. the lakers only hope is to land a good draft pick now, bide time, and sign love/westbrook and pray that they are able to build a contender around that core. considering they have so few picks after this year, there isn't much else they can do

[Koolaid_Man]

personally I love seeing Spur fan meltdown and shit bricks over the Lakers potential...they are all scrambling trying to find reasons why Kobe can't get to 6 when their dick-in-the-booty leader can't get off 4 :lol

[StrengthAndHonor]

yep. some people in the thread act like having cap space and being in the lottery is a surefire route to contending shortly, yet there are plenty of teams that are stuck in shitty situations despite constantly finding themselves in those positions. the lakers only hope is to land a good draft pick now, bide time, and sign love/westbrook and pray that they are able to build a contender around that core. considering they have so few picks after this year, there isn't much else they can do
This is the most realistic approach, and if they don't land Westbrook or Love, the rebuilding process is extended.

[ElNono]

When was the last time the Lakeshow built through the draft, tbh?

That, IMO is the biggest difference between Dr Buss and Fredo. Dr Buss spent for the right now, and spent wisely. He knew where his bread was buttered. He understood that building through the draft is a long, draw-out process with no guarantees. When a player crossed the franchise or got out of line, no matter how important (see: Shaq, even Kirby), he immediately put them on a position to get back in line or GTFO... like this:



After all the anger and angst and fury of the immediate post-Shaq era had inspired Kobe Bryant to make a trade demand, Jerry Buss finally called his superstar guard to the owner's home in the Los Angeles hills on an autumn evening in 2007.

The Los Angeles Lakers had found a trade for Bryant, but Buss warned him that it wasn't to one of his selected destinations.

"Detroit," Buss said.

The Lakers had agreed to a deal to send Bryant to the Pistons and needed Bryant's approval to waive his no-trade clause. The package included a combination of Detroit's core players and draft picks, sources say. Buss and Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak needed an answer soon, because they refused to let the issue linger into training camp.

Looking back, Bryant isn't sure it would've mattered whether it was Detroit or Chicago, Dallas or New York. In that moment, in Buss' house in the hills, it washed over Bryant how much staying a Laker for life meant to him, how no matter how dire the state of the franchise seemed, that Buss had a history of restoring the Lakers to championship contention.

"It hit me that I didn't really want to walk out on Dr. Buss," Bryant told Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe-bryant-passed-on-trade-after-this-lesson-from-jerry-buss--it-s-good-to-be-a-laker-for-life-002209469.html


Then again, Dr Buss was the GOAT owner, IMO...

[apalisoc_9]

Embid is Thabeet 2.0

[StrengthAndHonor]

Embid is Thabeet 2.0
Have you seen Thabeet in College? Hasheem never had a post game. Embiid is fluid for a big man. He's miles ahead of Thabeet. But people need to taper their expectations of him. He's not Shaq, not Dwight (defensively) but he can be Anthony Davis good. Keep in mind, Embiid is quickly learning how to do the right things , he's only been playing since 20011 and hasn't developed a ton of bad habits unlike most big men in college.

[jimbo]

For all we know the 57th overall pick could be the caliber of Ginobili or better. I'd not bet on it though. If the Spurs landed either Wiggins or Parker, they'd be beasts. On a shitty franchise that's going to land them, they'll be stat gathering until trade time comes. LA doesn't develop talent. This we know.

What I believe (we cannot know the future) is that the Lakers are far enough in the hole that one fresh face from college isn't going to dig them out of it. Until Kobe retires, that's how it's going to be. I also know that established NBA players are better than rookies. There are very few exceptions to this. Where is Shabazz? How's Bennett doing? Would Kyrie Irving make the Lakers competitors? Would Anthony Davis make them competitors?

The Lakers' suffer from identity crisis; they don't have anything but Kobe as an identity and though they might play well without him if everyone is healthy, they must play with him if he's healthy. That's their ceiling. No rookie is going to fix that, the LA front office won't allow it unless Kobe went all David and Tim and passed the torch, but I don't see that happening.


Which is why I say established players are better, maybe not in the long run but we aren't talking 5 years down the road. That's past the contract period anyhow.

I can look at the building where the blackjack table resides and decide that the house wins most of the time. I'd not sit down. Common sense dictates that players who have established games already in the NBA are more valuable than unknown "potential" players unless you get a monster.

James Harden was drafted after Thabeet. Now you tell me that people didn't think Thabeet would be better for a team than Harden would be. Now you have Harden as the face of the franchise in Houston, and he could do more to turn the Lakers around than Howard did (not saying much tbh) but even then Kobe would have to sign off on it. I don't need to know the hole card to know Kobe isn't going to sign off on it.

I don't think there's anything inherent about LA that results in players not getting developed. I think that's just on Phil Jackson and his staff. M'DA can develop players, he's earned a lot of guys a lot of money. Even though the Suns drafted like dogshit, he got good production out of the young core they had and later on the players the Suns traded for. He knows how to get the most out of guys who are young and athletic. I wouldn't even worry about that.

You think the Lakers are in the hole, I think they're finally decimated enough to actually build a foundation.

I can't argue that a rookie is going to be the one to singlehandedly take the Lakers to the promised land. Not even 18-19 year old Lebron could do that. I'm saying the Lakers have the cap space to put whatever rookie they have in the position to succeed early in his career. Unlike most teams, they can literally build the roster around this guy. Give him all the touches he needs to grow as a player. (Ex: Leonard vs George's development) Three years is what you've got to work with on a rookie contract. Two of those will be with the crippling Kobe contract. But that still sets them up to get a max free agent in any of the next three years, before their rookie gets paid. So year three is when they should aim to be contenders again.

Right now they have no identity. They literally have a collection of bad to average players playing on 1-2 year contracts. But starting over gives them the chance to either take on the identity of M'DA teams or look at what their rookie does well and try to put players around him to emphasize that. But like you said their identity in the past has just been "Kobe." He's got the potential to ruin the rebuild if he forces the Lakers to sign bad contracts to put around him to try to get in "win now" mode. There just aren't enough worthwhile players in this year's FA class to screw up your cap flexibility over. You've got to think Kobe knows that the Lakers were never going to be serious contenders with how old he is and with his awful contract, but he might be enough of an egomaniac to think otherwise. If they sign a max guy this summer, I think that's when they've officially fucked themselves.

I don't think you can just walk away from the table if you've got hopes of winning big. You'll never be Warren Buffett if all of your investment money is in a mutual fund. I mean, I can't think of any low risk big reward situations in the NBA. Cuban tried to burn it to the ground to build a new core, and was left with ashes. That might happen to the Lakers too, but they've still got to take the shot.

As far as missing on the rookie they draft, I just think there's a just a great chance of that happening. I mean it could. Embiid could stop plateau at where he's at. Parker could turn out to be a significantly worse Melo. Wiggins has always been a project player. Randle's offensive game might not translate to the NBA. Exum could end up being a one trick pony. Smart might not have the athleticism for the NBA.

There might not be a transcendent player in this draft if Embiid\Wiggins\Exum don't develop, but with how deep it goes-- the Lakers are bound to get a pretty good player out of one of these guys. Having a legit second option on your team for 5-6 mil doesn't sound so bad if they can haul in a max player like Love.

[jimbo]

Embid is Thabeet 2.0

Embiid is nothing like Thabeet other than he's African. Embiid has good footwork and has shown flashes of doing some amazing posts out of double teams and in the post. He's not a dominant scorer, but if his passing gets more consistent, there's a guy you can run an offense through.

[DMC]

I don't think there's anything inherent about LA that results in players not getting developed. I think that's just on Phil Jackson and his staff. M'DA can develop players, he's earned a lot of guys a lot of money. Even though the Suns drafted like dogshit, he got good production out of the young core they had and later on the players the Suns traded for. He knows how to get the most out of guys who are young and athletic. I wouldn't even worry about that.

You think the Lakers are in the hole, I think they're finally decimated enough to actually build a foundation.

I can't argue that a rookie is going to be the one to singlehandedly take the Lakers to the promised land. Not even 18-19 year old Lebron could do that. I'm saying the Lakers have the cap space to put whatever rookie they have in the position to succeed early in his career. Unlike most teams, they can literally build the roster around this guy. Give him all the touches he needs to grow as a player. (Ex: Leonard vs George's development) Three years is what you've got to work with on a rookie contract. Two of those will be with the crippling Kobe contract. But that still sets them up to get a max free agent in any of the next three years, before their rookie gets paid. So year three is when they should aim to be contenders again.

Right now they have no identity. They literally have a collection of bad to average players playing on 1-2 year contracts. But starting over gives them the chance to either take on the identity of M'DA teams or look at what their rookie does well and try to put players around him to emphasize that. But like you said their identity in the past has just been "Kobe." He's got the potential to ruin the rebuild if he forces the Lakers to sign bad contracts to put around him to try to get in "win now" mode. There just aren't enough worthwhile players in this year's FA class to screw up your cap flexibility over. You've got to think Kobe knows that the Lakers were never going to be serious contenders with how old he is and with his awful contract, but he might be enough of an egomaniac to think otherwise. If they sign a max guy this summer, I think that's when they've officially fucked themselves.

I don't think you can just walk away from the table if you've got hopes of winning big. You'll never be Warren Buffett if all of your investment money is in a mutual fund. I mean, I can't think of any low risk big reward situations in the NBA. Cuban tried to burn it to the ground to build a new core, and was left with ashes. That might happen to the Lakers too, but they've still got to take the shot.

As far as missing on the rookie they draft, I just think there's a just a great chance of that happening. I mean it could. Embiid could stop plateau at where he's at. Parker could turn out to be a significantly worse Melo. Wiggins has always been a project player. Randle's offensive game might not translate to the NBA. Exum could end up being a one trick pony. Smart might not have the athleticism for the NBA.

There might not be a transcendent player in this draft if Embiid\Wiggins\Exum don't develop, but with how deep it goes-- the Lakers are bound to get a pretty good player out of one of these guys. Having a legit second option on your team for 5-6 mil doesn't sound so bad if they can haul in a max player like Love.

Good take.

No it's not bad to get a high draft pick, ever. It doesn't make them contenders though. 3 years from now, for all we know, Lebron could be in LA. Kobe's 2 year deal doesn't start until November and goes through spring 2016. I don't know if they can waive Kobe before that, not sure how that would work or how his contract is written, but they won't even be playing decent ball for 2 years. If anyone thinks they can get lottery a couple of times by 2016, that's a lot of shitty basketball for LA fans to endure to try to build a winner.

Mike D isn't the catalyst for developing players. That would fall on the organization somewhat by deciding to go that route. Kobe would no doubt have to sign off on it and that means giving new guys the reins but I don't see it happening with Kobe. I could be wrong, but Kobe will have to be ushered off the court in order to retire him. He'll get a couple DNP CD's along the way before he gets Iverson pissed and demands something or just Spree's himself out of it. Then again, he could retire gracefully, he's got a lot of future earnings to think about.

If the Lakers make a hard decision they are going to tank, that's one thing, but that middle of the road attitude about it coupled with the uncertainty of Kobe's attitude once he returns could put them near the bubble, and that's a disaster.

[DPG21920]

Jimbo, that is what people are saying. Kool is saying LA will contend next year. LA doesn't have much cap space for the next years(depending on how you view it - to some, having the ability to add a max player is a ton of cap space, but it's relative to the team you already have).

Like you said, their moves before and the possibility they sign a max guy this off season could really dampen your strategy and seems quite likely. Kobe's contract signal where his mindset is. I am 99% sure they will sign a guy like Melo to a max deal to pair with Kobe even though it results in no real shot at winning now. LA is always about "winning it all", not just making the playoffs. The fact is there are just not that many guys that can win titles without having to have the most stacked teams around them.

Also, it's pretty damn rare to think of a 2nd option on a championship team that will just make 5/6M.

[jimbo]

Good take.

No it's not bad to get a high draft pick, ever. It doesn't make them contenders though. 3 years from now, for all we know, Lebron could be in LA. Kobe's 2 year deal doesn't start until November and goes through spring 2016. I don't know if they can waive Kobe before that, not sure how that would work or how his contract is written, but they won't even be playing decent ball for 2 years. If anyone thinks they can get lottery a couple of times by 2016, that's a lot of shitty basketball for LA fans to endure to try to build a winner.

Mike D isn't the catalyst for developing players. That would fall on the organization somewhat by deciding to go that route. Kobe would no doubt have to sign off on it and that means giving new guys the reins but I don't see it happening with Kobe. I could be wrong, but Kobe will have to be ushered off the court in order to retire him. He'll get a couple DNP CD's along the way before he gets Iverson pissed and demands something or just Spree's himself out of it. Then again, he could retire gracefully, he's got a lot of future earnings to think about.

If the Lakers make a hard decision they are going to tank, that's one thing, but that middle of the road attitude about it coupled with the uncertainty of Kobe's attitude once he returns could put them near the bubble, and that's a disaster.

They don't even have their pick in 2015. Next year is a completely wasted year for LA, other than watching their rookie develop. They're gonna be tempted to try to win because they don't have a draft pick--but the free agent class in 2015 is just a whole lot better towards building a team than the 2014 one is.

http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2014.htm

Look through that list and tell me if you see anyone the Lakers can realistically get who would be a good foundation for a championship winning team. No one there is worth the max with Kobe's contract still on the books.

For complimentary pieces, they could hope Bledsoe is cheap. Try to lowball Okafor? Hope Sefolosha's slump ends when he gets in LA? Who knows. It's still hard to find decent role players in this list.

Kobe's attitude is what's gonna make or break the Lakers in the end anyways. 2014 should be really interesting for them tbh. We'll see if Mitch has the balls to put Kobe in his place. (Seeing as he bent them over for 50 mil, I guess that isn't likely after all) They've got a shot if he does imo.


Jimbo, that is what people are saying. Kool is saying LA will contend next year. LA doesn't have much cap space for the next years(depending on how you view it - to some, having the ability to add a max player is a ton of cap space, but it's relative to the team you already have).

Like you said, their moves before and the possibility they sign a max guy this off season could really dampen your strategy and seems quite likely. Kobe's contract signal where his mindset is. I am 99% sure they will sign a guy like Melo to a max deal to pair with Kobe even though it results in no real shot at winning now. LA is always about "winning it all", not just making the playoffs. The fact is there are just not that many guys that can win titles without having to have the most stacked teams around them.

Also, it's pretty damn rare to think of a 2nd option on a championship team that will just make 5/6M.

They won't contend next year, no matter what they do. A Melo/Kobe combo on the Lakers would be completely horrible. If they somehow got Bosh, he could probably turn them into a playoff team--but not a contender. I just can't imagine 2014 Kobe being a second option on a championship team though. Not unless he had a miracle run, but he's got enough bad karma to where that'll never happen.

And think about it this way. Paul George is the first option on a contender. He's making 3.2 mil this year. (15.8 next year) Same thing with Rose. He made 5.5 during his MVP season. Durant made 4.8 when he was a 30ppg scorer and people realized that the Thunder were legit. That's why the Lakers have such little room for error if they want to be contenders. They really NEED for their rookie to be good because that's the only way they can get a quality scoring option for peanuts.

If the Lakers are smart, they'll gear up everything for that 3rd year.

[DMC]

I cannot see someone like Lebron joining them to win rings because it's not a good situation there for that, and the Lakers have 16 rings already, Lebron's wouldn't make any waves in the annals of history.

Bledsoe might go though, they need a good PG. That's the name that stuck out to me, and though Dirk or Tim could go, neither will for any money LA wants to spend on these guys (Tim won't leave SA in my opinion but you never know).

No, like I said, no one in the draft can make this team competitive next season and likely not even the season after that. It would take a resurgent Bryant and a real sleeper in the draft to even get these guys to the playoffs without some help from the league, which brings me to my next point: The league will find a way to bail them out of their own fuck up. It will happen. Some under the table deal will be struck and some player(s) will suddenly be in LA and they will appear, on paper, to be contenders. Let's not write Nash off just yet though... a healthy Nash, Pau and Kobe could quite possibly make a run to the playoffs.

[spurraider21]

For anything to work, Kobe is going to have to be at LEAST in 2012-13 form (if he's going to be taking up that much of the cap), while realizing he cannot be the alpha on the team. The odds of either of those, let alone both, is pretty damn slim.

[CitizenDwayne]

Embiid is averaging 10 pts. 10. Not sure how that will translate into a dominant NBA career.

[Killakobe81]

Embiid is averaging 10 pts. 10. Not sure how that will translate into a dominant NBA career.

Wiggins not averaging as lot either yet her gets Lebron comparisons ...gotta watch guys play. Ppg means little.

[CitizenDwayne]

Wiggins not averaging as lot either yet her gets Lebron comparisons ...gotta watch guys play. Ppg means little.

Admittedly, I haven't seen much. But, in what areas, if any, is he superior to Randle?

[Killakobe81]

Admittedly, I haven't seen much. But, in what areas, if any, is he superior to Randle?

Don't even say that. Just saying all the Jayhawks are gonna have low PPG ...much like the Arizona kids like GOrdon and Johnson.
Cant penalize them for being on a high caliber team.
Early on Parker & Randle looked like the best players.
Now Wiggins, Exum and Embiid are my favorite players.
I will be watching the conference and NCAA tourneys very closely.

[RsxPiimp]

It's also worth noting that Embiid is only averaging 5.8 FGA. He makes 67% of his shots with limited shots. For comparison Wiggins is shooting 11.5 FGA per game.Part of Bill Self's offense is dictated by what the post players do, if you watch Embiid play, you'll realize how far advance he is in passing from the post for a big.



In reality though, Embiid like I said before is not going to be the better player in their rookie year assuming both players declares to enter the draft. Embiid will probably not even make 3rd Team All-American this year, statistically he's just not the best player in the nation. But when it comes to pro potential, Embiid is the best NBA prospect in college basketball. He has a tremendously high ceiling.I saw Embiid again last Monday where he scored 16 points, grab 9 rebounds and block 5 shots. His impact is undeniable.



Wiggins is much more equipped to flourish in the game immediately. He'll probably win ROY depending on where he lands but in 3-5 years, Embiid I believe will be the better player.