Monroe: Spurs to see taxing calls

[timvp]

Spurs to see taxing calls
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA080205.1D.spurs.d8debd2.html
Mike Monroe
San Antonio Express-News

The Spurs today will welcome veteran sharpshooter Robert Horry back into the fold and put out the welcome mat for newcomer Fabricio Oberto, but all other moves the club makes before training camp figure to be weighed heavily against a burgeoning player payroll.

Horry, the 14-year veteran whose 3-point shooting in the playoffs has helped him earn six NBA championship rings, and Oberto, a 6-foot-10 center-forward and a teammate of Spurs All-Star Manu Ginobili on Argentina's 2004 Olympic gold medal-winning team, are expected to sign contracts with the Spurs shortly after the signing period officially begins at 11 a.m. CDT.

However, for the first time since the 2001-02 season, when the NBA instituted a luxury tax on player payroll, the Spurs will have to watch every dollar they commit to their future roster to avoid exceeding the recently announced luxury-tax threshold of $61.7 million.

With Tony Parker's contract extension, negotiated in September, bumping his salary by nearly $7 million from last season, the Spurs are committed to paying eight players almost $53 million next season: Tim Duncan, $15.85 million; Parker, $8.4 million; Ginobili, $7.43 million; Rasho Nesterovic, $6.7 million; Nazr Mohammed, $5.5 million; Brent Barry, $4.7 million; Bruce Bowen $3.4 million; and Beno Udrih, $905,000.

Horry and Oberto are believed to have agreed to contracts worth between $2 million and $3 million apiece. Those two deals will bump the team's 2005-06 payroll over $57million, with at least three roster spots to fill for next season.

The new collective bargaining agreement, ratified Friday and distributed to teams for examination over the weekend, requires all teams to carry at least 13 players.

Among candidates to fill those remaining roster spots are Devin Brown, the Spurs' homegrown reserve whose late-season back injury has clouded his future; Sacramento Kings restricted free agent Maurice Evans, like Brown a 6-5 swing man; and Indiana Pacers 6-8 restricted free-agent forward James Jones.

Spurs coaches also were impressed by two players at the recently concluded Rocky Mountain Revue summer league in Salt Lake City: 6-5 forward Melvin Sanders and 6-10 forward Britton Johnson.

Teams with player payrolls that exceed the luxury tax threshold will have to pay into a redistribution fund, dollar for dollar, for the amounts that exceed $61.7 million.

Spurs ownership, led by chairman and chief executive officer Peter Holt, typically has given executive vice-president of basketball operations Gregg Popovich and general manager R. C Buford wide latitude in making whatever moves they deemed necessary to maintain a championship-caliber roster, but this will be the club's first real brush with the luxury tax.

Most apt to be affected by this fiscal reality is Brown, who played last season for $695,000 and looked to be in line for a substantial increase either from the Spurs or another team. A herniated disc put Brown on the injured list late in the season and limited his time in the playoffs, cooling interest in the open market, according to several league personnel experts.

The Spurs may want to wait to see the interest Brown attracts on the market before making a decision about returning him to the roster. They can match any offer he receives from another team.

It may be Aug. 15 before the Spurs make any further free-agent moves. That is the deadline for teams to exercise a one-time "amnesty" clause in the new collective bargaining agreement that allows each team to waive one player. The clause will offer relief to teams paying the luxury tax, and the effect could be to put a few attractive players on the open market.

Dallas is expected to cut guard-forward Michael Finley unless the Mavericks can trade the veteran for players with expiring contracts before Aug. 15. Since the Mavericks would continue to be obligated to pay Finley the $51 million he is owed for the final three years of his contract — his deal calls for him to receive almost $16 million this season — he could afford to sign with another team for much less.

Thus, a number of teams are lining up to make an offer to him, and the Spurs likely will be one of them.

[timvp]

Bad news: Sounds like Holt isn't going to let them go much over the luxury threshold, as I suspected. That is going to be the Spurs' "hard cap" it figures. That means that re-signing Devin and using the rest of the MLE isn't a done deal.

Good news: Horry's contract isn't as much as we guess it would be. The Spurs should be free to spend at least $2M. That should be enough to get Devin or a replacement.

[JUUOT]

so, if i undertsand correctly, they will recruit one more player for wing, brown, evans or jones

and then fill the roster with young prospect like sanders...or veteran

nothing about a trade, if they follow the hard line for luxury tax they maight also follow the hard line in trade meaning they wont trade any center until they exactly know what they really have. i think they will start the season with the three nazr oberto and rasho.

PS: it took me 3H to get back on track with every news after this long week end gone canoe-camping...

[Ocotillo]

Don't be suprised if some of the summer camp fodder ends up on the roster. One thing you can say about them is they are come cheap.

[travis2]

hey LJ...this is a Mike Monroe article...

[BigDiggyD]

Bad news: Sounds like Holt isn't going to let them go much over the luxury threshold, as I suspected. That is going to be the Spurs' "hard cap" it figures. That means that re-signing Devin and using the rest of the MLE isn't a done deal.

Good news: Horry's contract isn't as much as we guess it would be. The Spurs should be free to spend at least $2M. That should be enough to get Devin or a replacement.
Looks like I was pretty close with my guess http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=411963&postcount=19

It doesn't come right out and say in the article that they can't go over but it does hint at it. I have us at close to 58M with 61.7M being the luxury cap so that leaves 3.7M potentially to play with. Not to mention more should come out soon about the minimum salary exemptions. Seems to me that if being under the luxury tax threshold were the true ceiling then there is plenty of money left to do some tweaking.

[spurster]

1. Article doesn't mention anything about trading Rasho (or Nazr).

2. I would guess the Spurs would add another PG and another bigman, but no names are mentioned.

[Supergirl]

Devin Brown could get more than $2 mil from other teams...the question is, does he want to stay in SA enough to take less? If not, we should cut him loose and pick up someone who does.

[50 cent]

Bad news: Sounds like Holt isn't going to let them go much over the luxury threshold, as I suspected. That is going to be the Spurs' "hard cap" it figures. That means that re-signing Devin and using the rest of the MLE isn't a done deal.


Where are getting this? I know Spurs fans think Holt is cheap and won't go over the luxury tax. However, this situation is without precedent - the Spurs have never had a Championship caliber roster and been so close to the luxury tax threshold. So, we really don't have a clue if Peter would or wouldn't be willing to go over the threshold by a few million. Sure, his past would seem to indicate that he doesn't want to pay a tax, but I think he is willing to spend a few extra million here and there if the situation is appropriate to give this organization the opportunity at a dynasty. The fact is, the Spurs have never been in this situation before and so what has happened in the past means nothing right now as we have many key pieces in place like never before.

[ChumpDumper]

It looks like the Spurs could use the rest of the MLE and re-sign Brown to a similar deal without netting a tax payment. I would imagine moving Rasho will be a constant theme like it was with Malik, however.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

I can follow 50 cents point but based on what we've seen from Holt, I would tend to agree with timvp. I don't see the Spurs taking on too much payroll for the future so I think if we trade Rasho, we'd trade him to a team with cap space so we can get a trade exception that we can let expire or to use on an irresistable player that comes on the market next year.

If the Spurs don't get something done with Rasho in the next two weeks, does anyone see Rasho being released as an amnesty player on Aug 15th? When the Spurs wade into luxury tax territory, we'll be playing him something like the equivalent of $12-$14 million a year for him once you figure the tax into the equation.

[Marcus Bryant]

So the Spurs would have to pay a tax on the amount of their payroll that exceeds $61.7 mil but they would be eligible to receive a share of the leaguewide redistribution? Cry me a fucking river. Think that any other ownership group in the National Basketball Association would have a problem paying a little extra for what the Spurs have assembled? !@$# it.

This is why I tire of you who sprout wood when Holt Cat saves a little money.

[boutons]

"Rasho being released as an amnesty player"

why would the Spurs dump a Big with nothing in return, to save a couple $M in luxury tax?

The luxury tax is not based on Rasho's (or anybody's) entire salary, but on the total team salary.

"playing him something like the equivalent of $12-$14 million a year"

huh?

[Mark in Austin]

The SPurs have done aa effective job of depressing the value of both Devin and Glenn as they can without damaging relationships. So far, nobody has really stepped up and shown serious interest in either player. Offer Big Dog 1.5M; Devin 1.5M; and use the other 700K to sign Sanders or Johnson from summerleague. Or sign a vet or two if they are willing to creep slightly into lux tax mode - with would be ameliorated somewhat since the league picks up a good chunk of the vet min salary.

[clubalien]

if salries go up higher then the salary cap and luxry cap go up, unless we dump someone holt is going to have to pay the tax

[clubalien]

since we are under cap we can keep rasho no need to trade
and then next year nazrs contract is overr so we just part ways

[timvp]

Where are getting this?

Holt invented the luxury tax. He demanded it to help "the little guys" be able to compete with the bigger markerts. On principal alone, I don't see Holt going over the threshold. It would go against everything he's worked for in the labor negotiations.

We'll see, but I'm almost certain.

[50 cent]

So the Spurs would have to pay a tax on the amount of their payroll that exceeds $61.7 mil but they would be eligible to receive a share of the leaguewide redistribution? Cry me a fucking river. Think that any other ownership group in the National Basketball Association would have a problem paying a little extra for what the Spurs have assembled?

And how do you know the Spurs ownership won't pay a little more? You guys act like Holt is going to cut somebody or demand a trade if the Spurs go $4.50 over the luxury tax threshold. As long as the Spurs only go over by a couple of million, I don't think Holt and Co. would have much of a problem with it to have this roster.

The cutting Rasho BS is just idiotic. If Holt is such a tightwad, do you really think he is going to cut a big man and hand him $30M for doing absolutely nothing. Hell no. Get a clue folks.

I know Holt isn't about to go Cuban on us and start spending freely, but I truly believe that he has no problem going a couple of million over the threshold to have a Championship roster. You also have to remember that in the previous CBA, if you were over the threshold, you got NO refund. Now, the tax pot gets divided between all teams, so therefore, if you only paid a couple into the tax fund, you could still get more out of it in the long run thanks to Dallas, Portland, and New Yorks of the NBA.

:smokin :smokin :smokin

[Notorious H.O.P.]

"Rasho being released as an amnesty player"

why would the Spurs dump a Big with nothing in return, to save a couple $M in luxury tax?

Try to think further than the upcoming season. I guarantee you the Spurs are. Rasho's value is probably the lowest it's ever been. Even a center starved team like Atlanta is looking elsewhere and it may have something to do with doubts on whether he is worth his contract or not, and that doesn't even address the number of years left on it. He also has confidence issues and if all the ego stroking and kid gloves the Spurs have been using hasn't helped, what do people think might happen if he's traded to a cellar dwelling team? This may make it difficult to move him even if he has a reasonable price tag for a big. The Spurs might see it from a standpoint that the amnesty clause is the only way to be sure to get rid of his contract and avoid the luxury tax penalties associated with it.

I'm not advocating getting rid of him. Personally I'd like to see if Nazr and Oberto could help push him closer to the 18/8 Rasho that took over for Tim a couple of seasons ago. And I'd rather not get rid of a center if we don't know how Oberto will work out and what type of contract Nazr will be looking for.


The luxury tax is not based on Rasho's (or anybody's) entire salary, but on the total team salary.

"playing him something like the equivalent of $12-$14 million a year"

huh?

Thank you Captain Obvious. Yes, the luxury tax is based on team payroll, not an individual player but you have to look at that pesky thing called "the future" again. The Spurs might only be on the hook for a couple of million in lux tax this year if they keep him but by next year, with all the player raises taken into account and a possible new contract for Nazr and possible use of the MLE next year, the Spurs will move further into lux tax territory and every dollar you're spending on a player that isn't particularly earning their keep is a dollar doubled. And with Rasho making $6-7 million then, that is when you'll come up with $12-$14 million. Its a contract the Spurs probably don't want, especially if he slides further down the rotation so yes, if they have the option to get rid of his contract and avoid the penalties, then that is an option they may look at. You pay him $6 million not to play or you pay him $12 million to sit on the bench. You'd like to trade him if you can but otherwise, what do you do? The Spurs may look into this. Money saved on Rasho is money they can spend someplace else. Again, I like Rasho and want to see him as a Spur but the Spurs may be forced to make a business decision.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Try to think further than the upcoming season.

Try to think with some common sense. Teams have inquired about Rasho. The Spurs aren't going to let the guy walk (let alone pay him 30 million to do so) just for shits and giggles.

He had a point in that you also can't treat Rasho's contract in and of itself. All this "paying Rasho 14 million" bullshit is just that - bullshit. Good attempt at throwing Rasho under the bus.

Look, the last time we saw posturing by the Spurs management like this, it was followed by a Malik Rose trade back in February.

I think much more likely is the same thing (a trade) is coming again. Gotta soften up the locals with the financial woes before sending out one of their favorite sons.

[ChumpDumper]

Money saved on Rasho is money they can spend someplace else.But if Rasho is waived and the Spurs spend up to the tax threshold again, it's like they're spending $7-9 million a year in taxes. Do you really think Holt and Co. see that as desirable? That makes little sense if you think a deal could eventually be worked out for Rasho in the next year or so.

I think they'll keep Rasho and keep shopping him. If no deals come by next summer, say goodbye to Nazr. It's not like we were a lottery team when Rasho played.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

BTW, Bank of America (a team owner) could raise their interest rates 0.0001% and come up with the money the Spurs would be over the tax.

Non-issue.

[spurster]

But if Rasho is waived and the Spurs spend up to the tax threshold again, it's like they're spending $7-9 million a year in taxes. Do you really think Holt and Co. see that as desirable? That makes little sense if you think a deal could eventually be worked out for Rasho in the next year or so.

I think they'll keep Rasho and keep shopping him. If no deals come by next summer, say goodbye to Nazr. It's not like we were a lottery team when Rasho played.
Shopping Rasho doesn't really save any money. It just replaces his salary with someone else's salary. Also, any extension for Nazr will eat up a big part of the savings.

I think saying goodbye to Nazr is still the main plan. You save the most money if you let contracts end without a trade.

Personally, trading Nazr for a mythical tall SF would be my favorite plan, but the Spurs miserliness is what I would bet on.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Try to think with some common sense. Teams have inquired about Rasho. The Spurs aren't going to let the guy walk (let alone pay him 30 million to do so) just for shits and giggles.

He had a point in that you also can't treat Rasho's contract in and of itself. All this "paying Rasho 14 million" bullshit is just that - bullshit. Good attempt at throwing Rasho under the bus.

All I wrote is a detailed explaination of a theoretically possibility so it could be discussed. That is what we do here. I just fleshed it out a little more as opposed to a single line stating "Should the Spurs release Rasho?". And I've already stated my position that I would like to Spurs to keep Rasho so I'm not throwing him under a bus. But the fact is that it's the contract that is at issue, not the man. If, in general, it's a contract you don't want and you have the ability shed the lux tax penalty, maybe you do it. And if it's the contract you don't want, that is the contract management perceives that puts them that much over the lux tax threshold. It doesn't matter who owns the contract. That's why Cuban sees Finley's contract at 3 yrs $102 million instead of 3 yrs $51 million and he may play $51 million and release him. I'd rather keep Rasho and if we don't then I'd rather trade him at get something in return. I've just opened the possiblity of Rasho as an amnesty candidate for discussion.


But if Rasho is waived and the Spurs spend up to the tax threshold again, it's like they're spending $7-9 million a year in taxes. Do you really think Holt and Co. see that as desirable? That makes little sense if you think a deal could eventually be worked out for Rasho in the next year or so.

If they see it as a better return for their money it's a possibility. It's money they can use toward signing Nazr or grabbing someone else that becomes available that better fits their plans. And I do think a deal for Rasho can be worked out, especially if he can come in this season and show glimpses of the Rasho of two years ago. But if he doesn't and gets pushed to the third 5 off the bench, trading him isn't exactly a slam dunk.


I think they'll keep Rasho and keep shopping him. If no deals come by next summer, say goodbye to Nazr. It's not like we were a lottery team when Rasho played.

This is what I believe also. I think they are better off holding Rasho until we see how Oberto works out and what type of contract Nazr is looking at. Hell, if Rasho sacks up a bit he may return to the starting role. He has better hands than Nazr and is a better positional defender (Nazr should improve in this aspect with a full training camp though). Pay a couple of million in lux tax this year and check the possibilities next. Rasho's contract is one year reduced and more agreeable to other teams and if Nazr walks then we still have a good player at the 5.

[ChumpDumper]

Shopping Rasho doesn't really save any money.If you get a shorter contract in return it does.
If they see it as a better return for their money it's a possibility. It's money they can use toward signing Nazr or grabbing someone else that becomes available that better fits their plans.But they still have to pay Rasho, so paying that on top of a Nazr salary is pretty much just like paying the luxury tax, only there is no hope of trading it away ever.

[picnroll]

Looking at year after this rough calculation to me is that the increases to Duncan, Nesterovic, Ginobili, Bowen, Barry, Parker and Udrih are going to add about $5 million to the total salary. That's not adding in retaining Mohammed at whatever he might cost above the $5.5 he's getting now. Seems unless the luxury ceiling goes up substanitally or they can dump Rasho for an ending contract or don't sign Nazr they'll be in luxury tax territory in '06 - '07 for sure.

[spvrs]

BTW, Bank of America (a team owner) could raise their interest rates 0.0001% and come up with the money the Spurs would be over the tax.

Non-issue.
WTF do you know about anything? you can rest assured that no one is going to change their business just so Spurs can pay the lux. tax.

your posts get more full of shit by the day. Last I heard you thought Deng for Rasho 'sounded good'.

Hopefully we can get rid of Rasho for a 1 year bad contract or better yet to someone under the salary cap (giving away picks or prospects as sweetener). Otherwise pressure is going up and we may have to get rid of a current player who actually contributes...

[Notorious H.O.P.]

BTW, Bank of America (a team owner) could raise their interest rates 0.0001% and come up with the money the Spurs would be over the tax.

Non-issue.

Yes, Bank of America could do this, SBC could charge an extra cent a minute for calls to Argentina, Slovenia, the Virgin Islands, France and Australia, and USAA could add a $1 Spurs Luxury Tax surcharge to all policies renewed this year. Will they do this? Does this make it a non-issue? The answer to both is no.

Every member of the Spurs ownership group has invested in the team and I'm sure they want to maximize what they can get. Yes they all came aboard to save the team from relocating but that doesn't mean they aren't interested in the business side of the equation. As the Spurs get further into lux tax territory, their bottom line is going to trend further from black to red. No one is complaining now because the Spurs have been prudent in their spending but as profits are reduced or if they happen to get into the red in the future, they aren't going to be happy if it ever reaches the point where they have to conduct a cash call.

[50 cent]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: There is a 0% chance that the Spurs release Rasho via the Amnesty Clause so you can stop discussing it. If they do, I will never post here again - and unlike TPark, I mean it.

[CaptainLate]

Devin Brown could get more than $2 mil from other teams...the question is, does he want to stay in SA enough to take less? If not, we should cut him loose and pick up someone who does.

Yeah...if they believe his health is okay; and that's a big IF.

[CaptainLate]

Where are getting this? I know Spurs fans think Holt is cheap and won't go over the luxury tax. However, this situation is without precedent...The fact is, the Spurs have never been in this situation before and so what has happened in the past means nothing right now as we have many key pieces in place like never before.

We need another Duncan type on the team -- in case Duncan goes down. Therefore, we need Holt and the rest to sell the team to someone (or some group) with the same management "hands-off" policy but with some $$. That will get us a second Duncan and assure us of becoming a dynasty with the Triplets (Duncan-Manu-TP). And keep Bruce the Noose.

[50 cent]

We need another Duncan type on the team -- in case Duncan goes down. Therefore, we need Holt and the rest to sell the team to someone (or some group) with the same management "hands-off" policy but with some $$. That will get us a second Duncan and assure us of becoming a dynasty with the Triplets (Duncan-Manu-TP). And keep Bruce the Noose.
Oh yeah, since there are so many "Duncan-types" floating around the league. If only it were that easy. Maybe we should just clone Tim and keep the clone locked up in case Tim #1 ever goes down with an injury.

:drunk :drunk :drunk :smokin :smokin :smokin

[Marcus Bryant]

So Holt Cat et al are being cheap. Great.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

As the Spurs get further into lux tax territory, their bottom line is going to trend further from black to red. No one is complaining now because the Spurs have been prudent in their spending but as profits are reduced or if they happen to get into the red in the future, they aren't going to be happy if it ever reaches the point where they have to conduct a cash call.

Black to red? Since they moved to the SBC Center the Spurs ownership group has been netting about 20 mil a year. Hell, with the profit they made from the first two years in SBC they could cover going 4 million over the lux tax for every year for the rest of the Duncan era and still come out ahead.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs fans should be happy. Holt Cat et al are going to save money by making bad basketball decisions.