Jimmy Graham bolting the Saints?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000317683/article/jimmy-graham-franchise-tag-would-be-unfortunate

"Franchise tag would be unfortunate"

[Clipper Nation]

Philbilly-to-Graham will make Brees-to-Graham look like nothing, tbh :downspin:

[MeloHype]

If he gets tagged, then he can't do anything about it

[Spur-Addict]

NFL has players locked up if they're willing to use the tag tbh.

[BRHornet45]

I'm all for Jimmy getting paid and paid very well, but the reality is the Saints offense was just as good without him in previous years. he is the best receiving tight end in the game, but his blocking is average at best. not to mention the fact that he completely disappeared in the playoffs this season ... however it's not completely fair to judge him based on that because he was a beast in the 2011-12 playoffs. I'm just hoping he can get a nice payday with a contract that is mostly front loaded in the first year and then declining salaries in the remaining years. The Saints need to focus on the offensive line more than anything else......... oh and a kicker too.

in the last 5-10 years no other team in the NFL has been better at finding great talent for cheap than the Saints. particularly with finding receivers that no one else wanted. now of course a good chunk of the credit goes to Drew Brees for making them look good, but Payton and Loomis have done an outstanding job of finding guys for cheap. most notably ....

Jimmy Graham - late 3rd round pick

Marques Colston - late 7th round pick

Lance Moore - undrafted

Pierre Thomas - undrafted

[Chinook]

^ Grief, stage one.

[BRHornet45]

^ Grief, stage one.

lol no son ... "Grief, stage one" is this .....



Joe Flacco
6 years, $120.6M
Guaranteed Signing Bonus - $29,000,000
Average Salary - $20,100,000


Stats

Games Started - 16

Passing Yards - 3,912 (11th)

Completion Percentage - 59% (27th)

Touchdowns - 19 (18th)

Interceptions - 22 (2nd)

QB Rating - 73.1 (32nd LMAO)

[Chinook]

You realize Flacco smack doesn't work on me, right? I've been right there with everyone else hating that contract. I've never been a Flacco shill.

Anyways, I've been through what you could go through with Graham with Boldin. I'm trying to help, buddy, not hate.

[BRHornet45]

You realize Flacco smack doesn't work on me, right? I've been right there with everyone else hating that contract. I've never been a Flacco shill.

Anyways, I've been through what you could go through with Graham with Boldin. I'm trying to help, buddy, not hate.

and claiming grief with Graham doesn't work with me.

regardless ... the thread title is absurd and completely misleading.

surprise surprise at who made it.

[Chinook]

^ Stage two, tbh.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/000617


1. Denial and Isolation

The first reaction to learning of terminal illness or death of a cherished loved one is to deny the reality of the situation. It is a normal reaction to rationalize overwhelming emotions. It is a defense mechanism that buffers the immediate shock. We block out the words and hide from the facts. This is a temporary response that carries us through the first wave of pain.

2. Anger

As the masking effects of denial and isolation begin to wear, reality and its pain re-emerge. We are not ready. The intense emotion is deflected from our vulnerable core, redirected and expressed instead as anger. The anger may be aimed at inanimate objects, complete strangers, friends or family. Anger may be directed at our dying or deceased loved one. Rationally, we know the person is not to be blamed. Emotionally, however, we may resent the person for causing us pain or for leaving us. We feel guilty for being angry, and this makes us more angry.

Remember, grieving is a personal process that has no time limit, nor one “right” way to do it.

The doctor who diagnosed the illness and was unable to cure the disease might become a convenient target. Health professionals deal with death and dying every day. That does not make them immune to the suffering of their patients or to those who grieve for them.

Do not hesitate to ask your doctor to give you extra time or to explain just once more the details of your loved one’s illness. Arrange a special appointment or ask that he telephone you at the end of his day. Ask for clear answers to your questions regarding medical diagnosis and treatment. Understand the options available to you. Take your time.

3. Bargaining

The normal reaction to feelings of helplessness and vulnerability is often a need to regain control–

If only we had sought medical attention sooner…
If only we got a second opinion from another doctor…
If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…
Secretly, we may make a deal with God or our higher power in an attempt to postpone the inevitable. This is a weaker line of defense to protect us from the painful reality.

4. Depression

Two types of depression are associated with mourning. The first one is a reaction to practical implications relating to the loss. Sadness and regret predominate this type of depression. We worry about the costs and burial. We worry that, in our grief, we have spent less time with others that depend on us. This phase may be eased by simple clarification and reassurance. We may need a bit of helpful cooperation and a few kind words. The second type of depression is more subtle and, in a sense, perhaps more private. It is our quiet preparation to separate and to bid our loved one farewell. Sometimes all we really need is a hug.

5. Acceptance

Reaching this stage of mourning is a gift not afforded to everyone. Death may be sudden and unexpected or we may never see beyond our anger or denial. It is not necessarily a mark of bravery to resist the inevitable and to deny ourselves the opportunity to make our peace. This phase is marked by withdrawal and calm. This is not a period of happiness and must be distinguished from depression.

Loved ones that are terminally ill or aging appear to go through a final period of withdrawal. This is by no means a suggestion that they are aware of their own impending death or such, only that physical decline may be sufficient to produce a similar response. Their behavior implies that it is natural to reach a stage at which social interaction is limited. The dignity and grace shown by our dying loved ones may well be their last gift to us.

Coping with loss is a ultimately a deeply personal and singular experience — nobody can help you go through it more easily or understand all the emotions that you’re going through. But others can be there for you and help comfort you through this process. The best thing you can do is to allow yourself to feel the grief as it comes over you. Resisting it only will prolong the natural process of healing.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

and claiming grief with Graham doesn't work with me.

regardless ... the thread title is absurd and completely misleading.

surprise surprise at who made it.

i'll change it

"Jimmy Graham is TRYING to bolt, but the Saints are tying him down, making him sink with their declining franchise"

[BRHornet45]

i'll change it

"Jimmy Graham is TRYING to bolt, but the Saints are tying him down, making him sink with their declining franchise"

wow

[BRHornet45]

^ Stage two, tbh.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/000617

yet nothing in that long ass copy and paste job that you took the precious time to Google and post has anything to do with anything posted in this thread.

I still can't believe Joe Flacco is making 20M a year. Ravens are truly fucked for the long haul.

[Clipper Nation]

i'll change it

"Jimmy Graham is TRYING to bolt, but the Saints are tying him down, making him sink with their declining franchise"
That "declining franchise" STILL won more playoff games this year than Cum :lmao

[Chinook]

yet nothing in that long ass copy and paste job that you took the precious time to Google and post has anything to do with anything posted in this thread.

I still can't believe Joe Flacco is making 20M a year. Ravens are truly fucked for the long haul.

He's been just as successful as Brees. If Drew's deal keeps the Saints from keeping their good players (notably Graham), I don't see how that's any better than what you're laughing at Baltimore about. Losing a season of Boldin sucked, but losing the rest of Graham's career could be devastating. The Ravens need to draft well on offense to make up for overpaying Flacco, but if the Saints are in bad cap shape while already paying their skill players peanuts, their future looks dark indeed.

[BRHornet45]

He's been just as successful as Brees. If Drew's deal keeps the Saints from keeping their good players (notably Graham), I don't see how that's any better than what you're laughing at Baltimore about. Losing a season of Boldin sucked, but losing the rest of Graham's career could be devastating. The Ravens need to draft well on offense to make up for overpaying Flacco, but if the Saints are in bad cap shape while already paying their skill players peanuts, their future looks dark indeed.

no he hasn't.

Flacco signed his stupid contract and led the Ravens to 8-8 this year and put up absolutely shameful and pathetic numbers.

Brees led the Saints to 11-5 this year and into the second round of the playoffs and put up 5,100 yards 39 TD's, 12 INT.

Brees is Hall of Fame, top 5 QB of all time ... Flacco is nothing more than a glorified, average at best NFL QB..... then again .... Baltimore fans are used to glorifying below average garbage QB's like Diffler and Flacco.


oh and about Graham ... you're truly showing your ignorance about his impact on the Saints with all of this "losing the rest of Graham's career would be devastating" talk. if anything ... the Saints are getting the very best of his career in his younger years. he's going to be locked in for at least another year or two and will be entering his 30's after that.

you fall into that "ESPN-fan" / top 10 plays" category. the Saints were the best offense in the NFL before Graham arrived. he's not the reason they are successful. he is a huge part of the team, but he is replaceable just like 90% of the other players. again ... I want him here and Loomis will get it done, I'm just hoping it's not a crazy contract. Drew;s contract won't hurt anything because it was largely front loaded in the first year and he is willing to restructure it on a yearly basis if needed.

[Chinook]

So you think the Steelers route of kicking the can down the road is the smart strategy? You're seriously bragging about that? Of course he's willing to restructure. Every player is willing to get their base salary turned into a bonus. I'm sure Flacco will be willing to restructure as well. It's great for the players, but it's a tool used extensively only by desperate teams trying to pry open a shrinking window.

Anyways, I didn't say Flacco is as good as Brees. He's not in the same ball park. I said he's been just as successful, and that's true. Same number of rings and a higher winning percentage. As much as I wish the Ravens had made a play for Brees over McNair in 2006, I wouldn't trade the Ravens' last six years for the Saints'.

And Brees had as many playoff wins the year he signed his big deal as Flacco had this year. I don't see why you're bragging about what he did in year two when the Ravens are likely to make the playoffs next year as well. Also, Baltimore is $12 Million under the cap with just Monroe and Pitta to sign and could have more by extending Suggs and releasing some dead weight. The Saints are $12 Million OVER while not paying their skill players anything and needing to reup their best play-maker.

For your ad homemin part, no, I'm not an "ESPN fan" who only has a superficial knowledge of the game. I don't really care about the Saints, and I don't pretend to. So I could indeed be overrating Graham. But I seem to understand the cap and CBA a lot better than you do. I'm also not nearly as big of a homer as you are. I can admit my team is going to be hurt due to giving on player a sixth of the cap without lashing out at other posters.

[Chinook]

And Brees' deal is heavily BACKloaded, not frontloaded. They gave him a huge signing bonus and crazy escalators. The only saving grace of it is that he's easily cuttable after next season. However, if he restructures like you want him to, he'll be uncuttable until his final season, at which time he'd be taking up $31Million in cap space. They'll probably have to extend him so they can restructure him in 2015 as well.

The team is in cap hell with Drew only taking up $17 Million. They'll be in even worse shape when he takes up nearly twice that much.

[Spur-Addict]

Chinook regulating as usual :lol

[BRHornet45]

And Brees' deal is heavily BACKloaded, not frontloaded.


did you ever bother reading the facts?



"with a five-year, $100-million deal and $60 million in guaranteed money. The front-loaded contract paid Brees $40 million in 2012"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/photos/1303/ten-highest-paid-nfl-players/3/#ixzz2rXbpqPmH



"The deal is quite front loaded--Drew is set to earn 40 million of the total 100 million in 2012 alone and 55 million out of the guaranteed 60 million before 2014."

http://www.hammerandrails.com/2012/7/13/3157794/breaking-news-drew-brees-signs-historic-new-contract-with-new-orleans



"He has already gotten the Saints to raise their offer from a back-loaded deal worth around $18 million per year last summer, to a more front-loaded deal worth around $18.75 million per year in the spring, to the latest undisclosed offer that was made last month."

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/07/drew_brees_deal_with_new_orlea.html

[Chinook]

with a five-year, $100-million deal and $60 million in guaranteed money. The front-loaded contract paid Brees $40 million in 2012

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/photos/1303/ten-highest-paid-nfl-players/3/#ixzz2rXbpqPmH

Lol, that is how you get confused. The contract is frontloaded in the sense Brees gets a ton of money up front. But cap-wise, the deal is backloaded, because the biggest cap hits come at the end. Almost all contracts are frontloaded in the way you mean (like Flacco's). Players don't sign deals in which they don't get their money up front.

http://mobile.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/drew-brees/

This is cap 101. And you call me an ESPN fan...

[BRHornet45]

Lol, that is how you get confused. The contract is frontloaded in the sense Brees gets a ton of money up front. But cap-wise, the deal is backloaded, because the biggest cap hits come at the end. Almost all contracts are frontloaded in the way you mean (like Flacco's). Players don't sign deals in which they don't get their money up front.

http://mobile.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/drew-brees/

This is cap 101. And you call me an ESPN fan...

son that's how NFL contracts work. any big contract nowadays is usually going to effect the cap space more so later on in the deal.

you said the contract was back loaded and it's not. now I suppose you're going to try and spin it and say ... "well what I really meant was that it is front loaded in the cap sense!".

[Chinook]

son that's how NFL contracts work. any big contract nowadays is usually going to effect the cap space more so later on in the deal.

you said the contract was back loaded and it's not. now I suppose you're going to try and spin it and say ... "well what I really meant was that it is front loaded in the cap sense!".

No. The cap is literally the only sense that matters. That's what determines how a team is hamstrung. Meaning thats why you're trying to criticize Baltimore. All big contracts are frontloaded in terms of cash. Flacco's, Ryan's Brees', Rogers'. Players don't sign big deal without upfront cash. It would have been news if his deal were actually front-loaded in cap. That's extremely rare, as is having a deal that's backloaded in cash.

You got caught not knowing anything about the cap and now you're trying to deflect by using semantics. The truth is the Saints are in cap hell in the early years of Brees' deal and will have to keep scrambling to just stay under the line. In two years when Flacco's cap number actually balloons, the Ravens will be in the position the Saints are in now.

[BRHornet45]

No. The cap is literally the only sense that matters. That's what determines how a team is hamstrung. Meaning thats why you're trying to criticize Baltimore. All big contracts are frontloaded in terms of cash. Flacco's, Ryan's Brees', Rogers'. Players don't sign big deal without upfront cash. It would have been news if his deal were actually front-loaded in cap. That's extremely rare, as is having a deal that's backloaded in cash.

You got caught not knowing anything about the cap and now you're trying to deflect by using semantics. The truth is the Saints are in cap hell in the early years of Brees' deal and will have to keep scrambling to just stay under the line. In two years when Flacco's cap number actually balloons, the Ravens will be in the position the Saints are in now.

no. no. no. you don't know everything little one. stop acting as if you do.

anyone with a brain can look at Brees contract (just like any other top QB) and realize that cap space is going to be a bitch down the road. that's the price teams have to pay in today's QB driven NFL.... and Brees is worth every dime of it.

I laughed at Baltimore for signing an average QB at best in Joe Flacco to a contract like that because they are going to be stuck with an under achieving QB who will struggle to complete 60% of his passes, struggle to throw for 4,000 yards, and struggle to throw more touchdowns than interceptions. at least with the likes of Brees and Rodgers you're getting greatness for the money.

like I said before ... the Saints have been the best team in the NFL at finding talent for cheap. they will be fine and if needed Brees will restructure his contract. dude made $11M last year from his endorsements. he got most of his contract money in the first couple of years and will be willing to do what it takes to help. that alone is a huge plus when you consider that in today's world most athletes have a high sense of entitlement and wouldn't even consider restructuring their contract.

[Pelicans78]

He's been just as successful as Brees. If Drew's deal keeps the Saints from keeping their good players (notably Graham), I don't see how that's any better than what you're laughing at Baltimore about. Losing a season of Boldin sucked, but losing the rest of Graham's career could be devastating. The Ravens need to draft well on offense to make up for overpaying Flacco, but if the Saints are in bad cap shape while already paying their skill players peanuts, their future looks dark indeed.

They have alot of really good young players on offense and defense. You're trying to be misleading as usual.

[BRHornet45]

They have alot of really good young players on offense and defense. You're trying to be misleading as usual.

he's trying to prove to everyone that he knows everything with his defense attorney-like spin tactics. I like Chinhook, I really do ... but he needs to calm down.

[Chinook]

no. no. no. you don't know everything little one. stop acting as if you do.

anyone with a brain can look at Brees contract (just like any other top QB) and realize that cap space is going to be a bitch down the road. that's the price teams have to pay in today's QB driven NFL.... and Brees is worth every dime of it.

I laughed at Baltimore for signing an average QB at best in Joe Flacco to a contract like that because they are going to be stuck with an under achieving QB who will struggle to complete 60% of his passes, struggle to throw for 4,000 yards, and struggle to throw more touchdowns than interceptions. at least with the likes of Brees and Rodgers you're getting greatness for the money.

like I said before ... the Saints have been the best team in the NFL at finding talent for cheap. they will be fine and if needed Brees will restructure his contract. dude made $11M last year from his endorsements. he got most of his contract money in the first couple of years and will be willing to do what it takes to help. alone is a huge plus when you consider that in today's world most athlete have a high sense of entitlement and wouldn't even consider restructuring their contract.

So you don't realize what restructuring is either? It's not a pay cut. It's an agreement to turn salary into a bonus and spread the proration across the remaining years of the contract. Of course Brees wants to do that. He gets a big check in the off-season instead of having 17 moderate checks. There's nothing heroic about taking even more upfront money.

And no. Not every QB deal balloons down the road. Brady and Manning have flat contracts. It's just these new $20 Million QBs that have the awful cap hits. If Brees really wanted to help the team out, he'd have taken a small bonus and more guaranteed salary to keep smaller cap hits down the road.

Once again, you show only superficial knowledge of the game, which would be fine if you understood that and stayed in your place. But instead you tried to bring me into deep water and drowned yourself. I never said the Saints were a bad team or that they were going to suck. I said they are in cap hell and will have a hard time keeping their best players. Then you try to team-smack me, which is hilarious because the Ravens are in much better financial shape than the Saints even though I hate Flacco's deal. Finally you flaunt your ignorance of the cap and prorations, exposing yourself as the very thing you accused me of being.

I don't know everything about football. I don't even know a lot. But damn, you're sitting around with an NFL dunce cap right now.

[Pelicans78]

Graham's an interesting case. Two years ago he almost single-handedly beat the 49ers in the playoffs and had a great 1st half of the season this year before getting slowed down in big games against the Patriots and Seahawks. He was bothered with an injury most of the 2nd half of the year. He's not going anywhere right now and they will franchise him this offseason, but they're probably going to have issues with keeping their RT Zach Strief who was arguably their best o-lineman this year. They're gonna release alot of guys like Vilma, Will Smith, and Harper who aren't difference makers. Question will be guys like Jabari Greer and Pierre Thomas who's one of my favorite Saints ever, but looks to be not as explosive in the backfield as Ingram or Robinson. Another question mark is Sproles. After his knee injury against the Jets, he wasn't nearly as effective. Is he worth his contract? I don't know because I would rather see this team be more balanced now instead of trying to heavily rely on the pass when the o-line isn't as good as years past.

Either way, the title is just as bad as when people said both Brees and Payton were leaving.

And as far as the declining franchise stuff, the Saints are just as young as the Panthers if not younger with an elite QB. The Panthers showed how legit they were getting embarassed at home in their first playoff game.

[Chinook]

They have alot of really good young players on offense and defense. You're trying to be misleading as usual.

Who does, the Saints? I guess. Doesn't mean their financial future is very bright. I never disputed that from BR. But if they're in cap hell WHILE having cheap young talent, that's actually a bad thing. Where is the financial relief going yo come from?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

And as far as the declining franchise stuff, the Saints are just as young as the Panthers if not younger with an elite QB. The Panthers showed how legit they were getting embarassed at home in their first playoff game.

80% of our team had never been in a playoff game before. We won the division, it can only go up from here.

I may have been exaggerating with the "decline" comment, but BR won't quit talking shit - so it is what it is.

[Pelicans78]

The Saints are always in cap hell every season. Its not anything new. Ever since Brees and Payton arrived, they've rarely been flexible with the cap. Brees was already making 10+ million when he first signed with the Saints. And they do what they always do. Draft good young players throughout the draft, get rid of veterans who aren't capable anymore and keep winning game. Their future is actually pretty bright considering the number of young talented players they have on both sides of the ball. They've never had great skilled players around Brees with the exception of Graham and Sproles two years ago and always had a premier offense. They do need to get a new center and resign Strief at RT as well as get another WR to help out even though its not a dire need. Defensively they need a CB and a LB, but that's pretty much it. They have studs on the D-Line and with Vaccaro at safety.

[Chinook]

Saints fans, I'm not trying to attack you. I'm not saying your team sucks. The Steelers managed to be a dominant team for years while in cap hell. But even you guys have to be concerned that the team is having a hard time giving ou ONE big contract to a skills player. Almost every team can still afford one.

[Pelicans78]

Who does, the Saints? I guess. Doesn't mean their financial future is very bright. I never disputed that from BR. But if they're in cap hell WHILE having cheap young talent, that's actually a bad thing. Where is the financial relief going yo come from?

They have alot of veterans who aren't contributing like Vilma, Will Smith, and Harper making alot of money and are prime to get cut in the offseason, especially the guys on the Super Bowl team who aren't contributing like once before. This is the same story every season.

[Pelicans78]

Saints fans, I'm not trying to attack you. I'm not saying your team sucks. The Steelers managed to be a dominant team for years while in cap hell. But even you guys have to be concerned that the team is having a hard time giving ou ONE big contract to a skills player. Almost every team can still afford one.

This isn't anything new. They've dealt with this the past few seasons. Graham will be signed long-term eventually.

[Pelicans78]

80% of our team had never been in a playoff game before. We won the division, it can only go up from here.

I may have been exaggerating with the "decline" comment, but BR won't quit talking shit - so it is what it is.

And the Saints have a number of young guys as well across the board. This team will only get better next year when the release non-contributing veterans and build around their young defense.

[Chinook]

I guess. But Brees has had modest cap hits until now. We're talking $30 Million for his 2016 number. That's a whole new level of cap hell. The only way of getting around that is to extend him. Flacco's agent is bragging because the Ravens face that same situation in the fourth year of Joe's deal. But eventually something has to give. Building around that much salary for one position is not sustainable.

[Pelicans78]

I guess. But Brees has had modest cap hits until now. We're talking $30 Million for his 2016 number. That's a whole new level of cap hell. The only way of getting around that is to extend him. Flacco's agent is bragging because the Ravens face that same situation in the fourth year of Joe's deal. But eventually something has to give. Building around that much salary for one position is not sustainable.

I agree that his contract will really be a killer in the future if not restructured since the good young players they have on rookie contracts will expire. Plus, the Saints offense wasn't nearly as good this season as in years past.

[BRHornet45]

So you don't realize what restructuring is either? It's not a pay cut. It's an agreement to turn salary into a bonus and spread the proration across the remaining years of the contract.

again you're making accusations with nothing to stand on. when did I ever once say that restructuring a contract means taking a pay cut? please show me where I said or even hinted that.

oh that's right ... you just pulled it out of your ass. lol at you just making shit up accusing me of thinking that restructuring means the Brees is going to say "hey guys! I'll take $5M less this year!!!" ..... restructuring temporarily fixes the "problem" and helps for the time being. the bottom line is that most teams who have star players with contracts like that are going to have issues to deal with. it's how their management and the willingness of the player to restructure the deal is what can makes the difference .... as I said here ....


"anyone with a brain can look at Brees contract (just like any other top QB) and realize that cap space is going to be a bitch down the road. that's the price teams have to pay in today's QB driven NFL"

if I made one mistake in the line above it was the "(just like any other top QB)" line. I should have been more specific and left out Manning and Brady ... as I noticed you brought up ....


And no. Not every QB deal balloons down the road. Brady and Manning have flat contracts. It's just these new $20 Million QBs that have the awful cap hits. If Brees really wanted to help thr team out, he'd have taken a small bonus and more guaranteed salary to keeo smaller cap hitd down the road.

as expected you brought them both up as your saving grace, but you conveniently failed to also mention the fact that both of them have have one BIG thing in common that QB's like Brees, Rodgers, etc. do not .... they both have already received their huge paydays in the past. Brees and Rodgers had not so who can blame them for wanting to get paid? Manning is 37 years old and at the end of his career and Tom Brady has a wife that makes $40M+ every year.

[Chinook]

I agree that his contract will really be a killer in the future if not restructured since the good young players they have on rookie contracts will expire. Plus, the Saints offense wasn't nearly as good this season as in years past.

Even restructures only go so far. Eventually, the cap number is gigantic, and it's all bonus proration which means it can't be spread out any longer. That's why I hope the Ravens release Flacco in 2016 or 2017 instead of restructuring. I don't want to see the team go down the Steelers road for a slightly above-average player.

[BRHornet45]

I guess. But Brees has had modest cap hits until now. We're talking $30 Million for his 2016 number. That's a whole new level of cap hell. The only way of getting around that is to extend him. Flacco's agent is bragging because the Ravens face that same situation in the fourth year of Joe's deal. But eventually something has to give. Building around that much salary for one position is not sustainable.

there is no doubting that both 2015 and 2016 will be a headache with the cap space, but that's still a couple years away. Loomis has been excellent and moving the money around to make things work in the past. I am confident in his ability to do so down the road as well.

we're talking about keeping Jimmy Graham here ... if the Saints can keep him for another year or two I would be happy. he doesn't make or break the team. as much as I would love to keep him long term, I'm not entirely sure that he will be worth the money down the road. if the Saints can continue to produce young talent, have Brees make them stars, and get the best out of them for their first 3-4 years in the NFL while they're being paid on their rookie contracts ... I would much rather take that route than signing Graham to a huge contract.

Brees is where the big money is supposed to go. just like Rodgers is where the big money is supposed to go for the Packers. they'll make it work.

[Chinook]

again you're making accusations with nothing to stand on. when did I ever once say that restructuring a contract means taking a pay cut? please show me where I said or even hinted that.

oh that's right ... you just pulled it out of your ass. lol at you just making shit up accusing me of thinking that restructuring means the Brees is going to say "hey guys! I'll take $5M less this year!!!" ..... restructuring temporarily fixes the "problem" and helps for the time being. the bottom line is that most teams who have star players with contracts like that is going to have issues to deal with. it's how their management and the willingness of the player to restructure the deal is what can makes the difference .... as I said here ....


"anyone with a brain can look at Brees contract (just like any other top QB) and realize that cap space is going to be a bitch down the road. that's the price teams have to pay in today's QB driven NFL"

if I made one mistake in the line above it was the "(just like any other top QB)" line. I should have been more specific and left out Manning and Brady ... as I noticed you brought up ....



as expected you brought them both up as your saving grace, but you conveniently failed to also mention the fact that both of them have have one BIG thing in common that QB's like Brees, Rodgers, etc. do not .... they have both have already received their huge paydays in the past. Brees and Rodgers had not so who can blame them for wanting to get paid? Manning is 37 years old and at the end of his career and Tom Brady has a wife that makes $40M+ every year.

Look, BR. I'm gonna go ahead an apologize if I misunderstood you. If you did already know everything I said and just had a differing opinion on it, I apologize. As I was saying to 78, it's not that I'm trying to say that there's no way the Saints can recover or that I take pleasure in that. And I'm certainly not saying Brees and Flacco have equal value.

But I find your nonchalance about restructuring Brees' cap hit repeatedly distrubing because I think it's a losig strategy in the long run. If the Saints have to restructure Brees already, they'll be forced to keep doing it. It's a slippery slope. Baltimore still has two years before Flacco's cap hit gets up that high, so I'd say the Ravens are in a better position than the Saints are even though New Orleans is likely to get a much better return from their QB.

But yeah, not being able to pay Graham would be concerning even if losing him wouldn't be.

[BRHornet45]

Look, BR. I'm gonna go ahead an apologize if I misunderstood you. If you did already know everything I said and just had a differing opinion on it, I apologize. As I was saying to 78, it's not that I'm trying to say that there's no way the Saints can recover or that I take pleasure in that. And I'm certainly not saying Brees and Flacco have equal value.

But I find your nonchalance about restructuring Brees' cap hit repeatedly distrubing because I think it's a losig strategy in the long run. If the Saints have to restructure Brees already, they'll be forced to keep doing it. It's a slippery slope. Baltimore still has two years before Flacco's cap hit gets up that high, so I'd say the Ravens are in a better position than the Saints are even though New Orleans is likely to get a much better return from their QB.

But yeah, not being able to pay Graham would be concerning even if losing him wouldn't be.

no beef. sorry if I wasn't as specific about it, but I certainly know the difference between taking a pay cut and restructuring.

regardless there is nothing any fan can do but bitch and moan about contracts like that. Brees is worth every dime, but the cap space down the road is going to be a bitch. again however I am confident in their ability to make it work. Graham is a big time player, but if we have to let him go a year or two down the road then I think it would be the right move considering the Saints would have had him on the team during his youngest years before entering his 30's (a lot of people don't realize that he's 27 years old, not 24 years old like Gronk) and that's why I'm not 100% on signing him long term. I don't see Graham's numbers continuing to increase in the next few years. teams are starting to figure him out and although he is still a beast MOST of the time, when his receiving game gets shut down we are stuck with an average at best blocking tight end.

they need to focus on improving the offensive line, continue to develop the young receivers who will be dirt cheap for the next few years (Stills, Toon, etc.), and draft wisely.

[spurraider21]

So you think the Steelers route of kicking the can down the road is the smart strategy? You're seriously bragging about that? Of course he's willing to restructure. Every player is willing to get their base salary turned into a bonus. I'm sure Flacco will be willing to restructure as well. It's great for the players, but it's a tool used extensively only by desperate teams trying to pry open a shrinking window.
true as can be. this is how you know Al Davis was retarded post-2000. he was restructuring deal after deal when we were ripping off 4-12 seasons (consecutive 8-8 years somewhere in there, but still)

[Clipper Nation]

80% of our team had never been in a playoff game before. We won the division, it can only go up from here.

I may have been exaggerating with the "decline" comment, but BR won't quit talking shit - so it is what it is.
The Saints are young too and still won more playoff games than Cum this year :lol

[BRHornet45]

The Saints are young too and still won more playoff games than Cum this year :lol

the Panthers were a guaranteed one and done in the playoffs. there was absolutely noway in hell they would beat the 49ers, Seahawks, Saints, Eagles, or Packers in the post season. the Panthers were not built for the playoffs. that outstanding defense can only take them so far as we all saw. I know they say "defense wins championships", but when you have a gimmick QB all that shit goes out the window.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

the Panthers were a guaranteed one and done in the playoffs. there was absolutely noway in hell they would beat the 49ers, Seahawks, Saints, Eagles, or Packers in the post season. the Panthers were not built for the playoffs. that outstanding defense can only take them so far as we all saw. I know they say "defense wins championships", but when you have a gimmick QB all that shit goes out the window.

lol theres no difference between carolina and seattle/san fran other than experience. you will see when similar results occur next year while brees is having a declining year tbh

[Clipper Nation]

lol theres no difference between carolina and seattle/san fran other than experience.
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Chinook]

The Panthers are in a weird position because their money is tied up in weird places. They haven't paid Cam or the defense yet. They're not like Seattle and SanFran who have a couple of seasons to get the last out of their prime defensive players before they have to give bad money to their QBs. Carolina is in cap jail with most of their best players yet to be paid. It's going to be tricky for them to both keep their team together beyond next season and add the necessary pieces to be a legitimate contender.

And that's assuming Cam takes the next step with only moderate upgrades to his receiving corps.

[Pelicans78]

lol theres no difference between carolina and seattle/san fran other than experience. you will see when similar results occur next year while brees is having a declining year tbh

Not true at all. San Fran has more skilled players across the board and the Seahawks have a much better secondary than the Panthers. Those two teams are clearly ahead of Carolina right now and it's not about experience. The Panthers need to improve their skilled positions outside of TE and their secondary has no playmakers. All they have is their front 7 and Cam running around making plays. But the two other teams have a bit more right now even though it will change once Wilson and Kaep get out of their rookie deals.

[Pelicans78]

The Panthers are in a weird position because their money is tied up in weird places. They haven't paid Cam or the defense yet. They're not like Seattle and SanFran who have a couple of seasons to get the last out of their prime defensive players before they have to give bad money to their QBs. Carolina is in cap jail with most of their best players yet to be paid. It's going to be tricky for them to both keep their team together beyond next season and add the necessary pieces to be a legitimate contender.

And that's assuming Cam takes the next step with only moderate upgrades to his receiving corps.

Its not happening for them unless Cam improves substantially as a passer. This team is primed to miss the playoffs next season if Cam doesn't improve the offense.

[BRHornet45]

The Panthers are in a weird position because their money is tied up in weird places. They haven't paid Cam or the defense yet.

if their ownership and management is smart then they will unload Cam and move on. that is if their main concern is to win a championship. now if their main concern is to receive undeserved media hype by supporting the agenda, then by all means continue with the Cam Newton experiment.

if they give Newton the typical "20M+ per year" contract that seems to be the norm nowadays then it could go down as the worst contract in NFL history surpassing JaMarcus Russell's contract with the Raiders. it would kill the Panthers franchise for at least the next 5 years.

[Chinook]

The problem is that I don't see how the Panthers manage to not give Cam big money after the owner popped off and said Cam proved to be a franchise quarterback. That's like when the Ravens' owner went to the press and said Flacco deserved to be the highest paid player ever and that his deal wouldn't hurt the team financially. How the hell is the front office supposed to negotiate after that?

It's one thing for Brees to get $20 Million. But Flacco getting that much has destroyed the middle-class contract for all quarterbacks.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

if their ownership and management is smart then they will unload Cam and move on. that is if their main concern is to win a championship. now if their main concern is to receive undeserved media hype by supporting the agenda, then by all means continue with the Cam Newton experiment.

if they give Newton the typical "20M+ per year" contract that seems to be the norm nowadays then it could go down as the worst contract in NFL history surpassing JaMarcus Russell's contract with the Raiders. it would kill the Panthers franchise for at least the next 5 years.

dumb post is dumb

because jamarcus won what exactly while in the NFL? and please tell me more about how hard-working russell was in the offseason :lol..

[BRHornet45]

dumb post is dumb

because jamarcus won what exactly while in the NFL? and please tell me more about how hard-working russell was in the offseason :lol..

okay fine ... then it could be the SECOND worst contract in NFL history.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

okay fine ... then it could be the SECOND worst contract in NFL history.

haha...

cam has been improving every year. if we take the right steps and get a couple more threats.. such as nicks from FA and maybe evans from the draft... we will dump lafell and have a legitimate chance to run for a SB next year.. not to mention the year after when we get to dump stewart's contract we will be set for the future.

hate it or love it you're gonna have to deal with cam/panthers being legit for at least the next 3-4 years. our D can be good even without greg hardy.. but i suspect he will take a pay cut.