The Official Meltdown Thread

[Hoops Czar]

Mid-tier guys need to be in big markets even more. Those little commercials Green, Neal and Splitter did make a lot more money in big markets, while a superstar like James would get all the national endorsements he could get anywhere. It's not like Duncan hasn't repeatedly turned down offers.

SA is big for low-tier players who haven't made a name for themselves or old players who want to win. Until Tim leaves and HEB opens up. Then whoever the biggest star in town is will get a decent endorsement, Superstar or midtier.

This is some stereotypical bullshit right here. The Spurs are one of the worst at recruiting players. Mid tier players will play anywhere. The problem is that the Spurs are so busy trying to fit square pegs into round holes, they miss out on some of the mid tier athletes. Mo william's stops were Utah and Portland. Are you saying the Spurs could not compete with the likes of those two? Hickson's last three stops were Cleveland, Portland and Denver. Same question posed. These athletes are looking at three things, money, length of contract/security and playing time. The Spurs aren't your prototypical organization. They don't shop domestic, the shop international. This lightning in a bottle approach to GM'ing might net you a diamond in the rough every once in a while, but let's get real, the majority are severely flawed and some aren't NBA material at all. This organization is being run like your local Ma and Pa store. They don't want to pay a little more for proven talent. They want to pay less and squeeze every ounce of talent out of that far less superior player (De Colo, Baynes, CoJo, Bonner). The problem with this is in most cases, you get what you pay for and you leave yourself with very few desirable assets. Gone are the days where you can nab a Parker late first round or Ginobili second round. I said it them and I'll say it now... RJ has single handedly ruined RC Buford even after being long gone. The NBA landscape is ever changing and with age catching up with two of three of its stars, the margin for error is shrinking. The Spurs FO doesn't want to make those tough changes like releasing De Colo or CoJo, or amnesty/trading Bonner. The fans deserve better than what this FO is willing to dish out.

[DPG21920]

Odd post considering the FO strategy has completely had the Spurs in the playoffs and close to a 5th title.

[Hoops Czar]

Odd post considering the FO strategy has completely had the Spurs in the playoffs and close to a 5th title.

What strategy? If that strategy was to rely on the big three to get them into the playoffs and win postseason games, yeah, mission accomplished. That would have been my strategy too and I'm not even employed by them.

[DPG21920]

The strategy was to try and be a playoff team so you could compete for a title. Mission accomplished.

[Hoops Czar]

The strategy was to try and be a playoff team so you could compete for a title. Mission accomplished.

It doesn't look like that strategy is paying off this year. The big three need help and the Spurs bring in Ayres and Belinelli. Offense over defense doesn't win championships.

[DPG21920]

Sure, but they are battling for the best record in the West. They will make the playoffs and they will have a shot at winning it all. They brought in Tiago Splitter, Boris Diaw and Kawhi Leonard. Those guys help.

[Chinook]

This is some stereotypical bullshit right here. The Spurs are one of the worst at recruiting players. Mid tier players will play anywhere. The problem is that the Spurs are so busy trying to fit square pegs into round holes, they miss out on some of the mid tier athletes. Mo william's stops were Utah and Portland. Are you saying the Spurs could not compete with the likes of those two? Hickson's last three stops were Cleveland, Portland and Denver. Same question posed. These athletes are looking at three things, money, length of contract/security and playing time. The Spurs aren't your prototypical organization. They don't shop domestic, the shop international. This lightning in a bottle approach to GM'ing might net you a diamond in the rough every once in a while, but let's get real, the majority are severely flawed and some aren't NBA material at all. This organization is being run like your local Ma and Pa store. They don't want to pay a little more for proven talent. They want to pay less and squeeze every ounce of talent out of that far less superior player (De Colo, Baynes, CoJo, Bonner). The problem with this is in most cases, you get what you pay for and you leave yourself with very few desirable assets. Gone are the days where you can nab a Parker late first round or Ginobili second round. I said it them and I'll say it now... RJ has single handedly ruined RC Buford even after being long gone. The NBA landscape is ever changing and with age catching up with two of three of its stars, the margin for error is shrinking. The Spurs FO doesn't want to make those tough changes like releasing De Colo or CoJo, or amnesty/trading Bonner. The fans deserve better than what this FO is willing to dish out.

Um... What? I was replying to DPG's post saying midtier guys don't worry about endorsements. They do, and local spots in big markets pay well. Stars will get tons of endorsements anywhere. MLE guys will get more ad money in big markets. Many players were recruited for such reasons.

Anyway, I don't know why you keep using the FO's mistakes when talking to me. I agree with you on that. They misplayed this off-season, even counting the built-in disadvantages they had. It's hard to say they are generally incompetent given their track record. But they definitely didn't make the most of their opportunity.

[Bruno]

Locating Spurs issue is as easy as it could be. Spurs are 1-10 against Rockets, Pacers, Clippers, Thunder, Heat and Blazers. In 9 of the 10 losses, they have allowed 109 points or more.

It's as clear as it could be: Spurs have a defensive issue against contenders.

Once the diagnosis is made, it's time to look for a possible cure. Players coming back from injuries and playing with more intensities might help but it's not sure it would be enough especially since some of these 9 losses where with Spurs at full strength. Aside of that, a trade seems like the only other possibility...

[Aremid]

This is some stereotypical bullshit right here. The Spurs are one of the worst at recruiting players. Mid tier players will play anywhere. The problem is that the Spurs are so busy trying to fit square pegs into round holes, they miss out on some of the mid tier athletes. Mo william's stops were Utah and Portland. Are you saying the Spurs could not compete with the likes of those two? Hickson's last three stops were Cleveland, Portland and Denver. Same question posed. These athletes are looking at three things, money, length of contract/security and playing time. The Spurs aren't your prototypical organization. They don't shop domestic, the shop international. This lightning in a bottle approach to GM'ing might net you a diamond in the rough every once in a while, but let's get real, the majority are severely flawed and some aren't NBA material at all. This organization is being run like your local Ma and Pa store. They don't want to pay a little more for proven talent. They want to pay less and squeeze every ounce of talent out of that far less superior player (De Colo, Baynes, CoJo, Bonner). The problem with this is in most cases, you get what you pay for and you leave yourself with very few desirable assets. Gone are the days where you can nab a Parker late first round or Ginobili second round. I said it them and I'll say it now... RJ has single handedly ruined RC Buford even after being long gone. The NBA landscape is ever changing and with age catching up with two of three of its stars, the margin for error is shrinking. The Spurs FO doesn't want to make those tough changes like releasing De Colo or CoJo, or amnesty/trading Bonner. The fans deserve better than what this FO is willing to dish out.


Thank you. This is what I've been trying to say. No one is asking the FO to win the Kobe lebron d12 sweepstakes . But you are shitting me if you'd rather pay less for a less talented player like a Jeff ayers than more money for a guy like mo Williams. . The FO deserves so much criticism in this regard

[cd021]

No it's not overrated. It's a running joke in the league that SA is a retirement system for old players. That's because they have a glass ceiling where even a true superstar would have to play 2nd fiddle to Tim Duncan. It's not Tim's fault, but it's how the system is designed. There's no way for a Carmelo or James like player to get their minutes and stats in SA, and there's absolutely no endorsement money in SA short of HEB.

I wasn't quite implying about Melo or Lebron James. I meant if (most any other player) was in the open market and the Spurs offered him a fair deal, would he simply pass up the deal to go to any other destination.

Would a player take the minimum to play in Chicago or the mini mid level to play in San Antonio.

[Raven]

is it acceptable to say the belinelli signing was bad now? benefactor and hater please say your opinion on the matter

[polandprzem]

Watching Pop during that game I was thinking that he might realized no matter what we do and how much we try we are never gonna surpass those athletic teams. They are better on D and better on O. All those years we had a sight on a championship but now it looks like championship is not for us.


I wonder how the Houston game will go.

[Brazil]

is it acceptable to say the belinelli signing was bad now? benefactor (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13284) and hater (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=7609) please say your opinion on the matter

Why beli signing would be bad ? It's a solid signing... Not sure what's your point

[ChumpDumper]

Chump denied fwiw, but SA210 was stealth banned afterwards while Kori Ellis' most recent visitor was Chump :lol.False.

[TheGoldStandard]

Beli signing is not a bad deal, it's okay if it's coming off the bench but man should not be starting, kills the defense.

We lack the personnel to really run the motion offense perfectly, we try to mold players to do the job. I'm not sure what system I'd run but if we had a wing like Kyle Korver I'd say sure, or if we have a 4 or 5 who could step out and hit a 3 and play defense then Flex/Motion makes sense.

Maybe if nobody comes calling Lionel Hollins try to get him as an assistant to help shore up defense. I wonder what PJ is doing?

[Raven]

Beli signing is not a bad deal, it's okay if it's coming off the bench but man should not be starting, kills the defense.

We lack the personnel to really run the motion offense perfectly, we try to mold players to do the job. I'm not sure what system I'd run but if we had a wing like Kyle Korver I'd say sure, or if we have a 4 or 5 who could step out and hit a 3 and play defense then Flex/Motion makes sense.

Maybe if nobody comes calling Lionel Hollins try to get him as an assistant to help shore up defense. I wonder what PJ is doing?

so the bench doesn't need to defend in the play offs? if i remember the comments about the signing were:
-obvious defensive upgrade compared to neal
-very high bball iq
-has big balls
-can be our playmaker, he can create his own shot
-he improved so much defensively with thibs

i think it's becoming obvious that:

-he's a defensive downgrade to neal, which is saying something
-:lol this one was retarded from the start
-yeah, that's why when he's needed he shits the bed
-memphis game should have closed the discussion about this, and honestly he's not been creating shit, he only gets what is given to him off the screen, which is fine in theory
-yeah, no he did not, not by any means. his D is an absolute joke and he's making our perimeter D a bottom 3 in the league

[ChumpDumper]

Did Marco knock you up?

[TheGoldStandard]

so the bench doesn't need to defend in the play offs? if i remember the comments about the signing were:
-obvious defensive upgrade compared to neal
-very high bball iq
-has big balls
-can be our playmaker, he can create his own shot
-he improved so much defensively with thibs

i think it's becoming obvious that:

-he's a defensive downgrade to neal, which is saying something
-:lol this one was retarded from the start
-yeah, that's why when he's needed he shits the bed
-memphis game should have closed the discussion about this, and honestly he's not been creating shit, he only gets what is given to him off the screen, which is fine in theory
-yeah, no he did not, not by any means. his D is an absolute joke and he's making our perimeter D a bottom 3 in the league

Marco is actually having his best defensive year considering his DRtg and is having a monster year in ORtg, he passes the ball better than Neal and can dribble the ball better. Has better percentages for 2 point FG's and 3 point FG's. He plays a position on the Spurs that is stacked so his asset is to hit shots with the 2nd unit which I hope he goes back to with Manu. They have a great tempo with the personnel out there. He's only meant to spell players as everyone's minutes will go up in the playoffs so he'll rotate between the 2 and the 3 but still don't expect him to play more than 20 minutes a game.

[Chewbacca]

Chump denied fwiw, but SA210 was stealth banned afterwards while Kori Ellis' most recent visitor was Chump :lol. So you can draw your own conclusions on dat one. I have a feeling Chewie is about to get stealth banned as well. :depressed



:tu



:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah sa210 is so banned he just posted.

[timtonymanu]

Why beli signing would be bad ? It's a solid signing... Not sure what's your point

It's part of her shtick to hate on Belinelli even when he's been decent this season.

I absolutely hate Belinelli on the defensive end and I really hope he isn't starting when Danny comes back. The Spurs can afford to handle Danny Green's offensive struggles, but not Marco's defensive struggles. However, Marco has been a solid addition anyway. I think he's far from being one of the problems on our team.

[Sean Cagney]

Locating Spurs issue is as easy as it could be. Spurs are 1-10 against Rockets, Pacers, Clippers, Thunder, Heat and Blazers. In 9 of the 10 losses, they have allowed 109 points or more.

It's as clear as it could be: Spurs have a defensive issue against contenders.

Once the diagnosis is made, it's time to look for a possible cure. Players coming back from injuries and playing with more intensities might help but it's not sure it would be enough especially since some of these 9 losses where with Spurs at full strength. Aside of that, a trade seems like the only other possibility...
Yeah and this is about IT, period end of story....

[Raven]

It's part of her shtick to hate on Belinelli even when he's been decent this season.

I absolutely hate Belinelli on the defensive end and I really hope he isn't starting when Danny comes back. The Spurs can afford to handle Danny Green's offensive struggles, but not Marco's defensive struggles. However, Marco has been a solid addition anyway. I think he's far from being one of the problems on our team.

so our problem is that our best perimeter defenders are out and the one who replaces them isn't the problem? how is that possible tbh.. Also, our perimeter D sucked very bad even when they were healthy, and that's because we had either belinelli, patty or manu in. So how is he not the problem?

[timtonymanu]

so our problem is that our best perimeter defenders are out and the one who replaces them isn't the problem? how is that possible tbh.. Also, our perimeter D sucked very bad even when they were healthy, and that's because we had either belinelli, patty or manu in. So how is he not the problem?

I do think a lot of our defensive struggles have to do with Marco, but I don't think it means the team should trade him or that I think he was a bad signing. I'm sure you feel what I don't about him. He brings enough value on offense that I can live with it. That's why I don't think he's a problem on our team. He's essentially a better version of Gary Neal. I'll take that. I will be pissed though if he's still a starter when Green is healthy.

[Raven]

I do think a lot of our defensive struggles have to do with Marco, but I don't think it means the team should trade him or that I think he was a bad signing. I'm sure you feel what I don't about him. He brings enough value on offense that I can live with it. That's why I don't think he's a problem on our team. He's essentially a better version of Gary Neal. I'll take that. I will be pissed though if he's still a starter when Green is healthy.

it was a bad signing especially because it did not solve any of the problems, it just gave more depth in a position where we were already too stacked. we should have signed either a defensive stopper or a two way player veteran or young i don't care. We choosed the easy way and it came down to hunt us.

[timtonymanu]

it was a bad signing especially because it did not solve any of the problems, it just gave more depth in a position where we were already too stacked. we should have signed either a defensive stopper or a two way player veteran or young i don't care. We choosed the easy way and it came down to hunt us.

I think the front office made Marco a priority because of Manu. It wasn't a sure thing Manu was going to recover from the Finals and since Danny Green isn't a reliable scorer or a playmaker, bringing in Marco solved that. So I think Marco solved something.

I do think though that an SF should have been the bigger priority, but I think the front office tried getting one with Kirilenko but were played dirty.

[Brazil]

Is raven really complaining about beli signing? :lmao

give me one player available who would have helped more than beli for 7M 2 years :lmao

dear god people likes bitching for the sake of it

[Raven]

Is raven really complaining about beli signing? :lmao

give me one player available who would have helped more than beli for 7M 2 years :lmao

dear god people likes bitching for the sake of it

belinelli doesn't help, he hurts. Having a player less would have helped more.

[Raven]

I think the front office made Marco a priority because of Manu. It wasn't a sure thing Manu was going to recover from the Finals and since Danny Green isn't a reliable scorer or a playmaker, bringing in Marco solved that. So I think Marco solved something.

I do think though that an SF should have been the bigger priority, but I think the front office tried getting one with Kirilenko but were played dirty.

that is not solving, it's defering. And i don't care about the reasoning, if they thought Manu was done, then why did they resign him in the first place. The facts are that our perimeter D is our problem and another fact is that belinelli is our worst perimeter defender.

[venitian navigator]

Like other people said, Belinelli is a sort of Neal upgraded, at least in the regular season, and less paid for a period of time of two years.
The hope (and the only questionable point in saying he could be a better player than Neal) is that, in play offs, he will be as clutch as Neal has been on offense and better than Neal on defense (but Beli in Chicago has shown that is play offs performances are usually not that bad).
As a role, Neal has been useful in the past, sometimes crucial...so it's obvious he was a sort of fit for our team that needed to be replaced.
As of now, Beli has shown he's better than Neal on offense (all star three points shooter, can cut a lot better, can shoot coming off the screens) and on defense (also if his defense is bad...but no way Neal's defense was better).
Frankly, there was nothing better on the market...and let's face it : the bad record agaist elite teams don't come because of the 2nd unit...

[Raven]

Is raven really complaining about beli signing? :lmao

give me one player available who would have helped more than beli for 7M 2 years :lmao

dear god people likes bitching for the sake of it

Helped doing what? Explain to me what does he help to do.

[Brazil]

Helped doing what? Explain to me what does he help to do.

Like being the 3 pts best shooter in the league ? :lol

7 M dude...

[Hoops Czar]

Like other people said, Belinelli is a sort of Neal upgraded, at least in the regular season, and less paid for a period of time of two years.
The hope (and the only questionable point in saying he could be a better player than Neal) is that, in play offs, he will be as clutch as Neal has been on offense and better than Neal on defense (but Beli in Chicago has shown that is play offs performances are usually not that bad).
As a role, Neal has been useful in the past, sometimes crucial...so it's obvious he was a sort of fit for our team that needed to be replaced.
As of now, Beli has shown he's better than Neal on offense (all star three points shooter, can cut a lot better, can shoot coming off the screens) and on defense (also if his defense is bad...but no way Neal's defense was better).
Frankly, there was nothing better on the market...and let's face it : the bad record agaist elite teams don't come because of the 2nd unit...

Yes, Belinelli is better than Neal with plantar faciitis but he's not an upgrade over Neal and Kirilenko. Signing Ayres and Belinelli with MLE money was a flat out joke. Resigning Neal and signing Kirilenko to the MLE would have given them a spark off the bench and a backup SF who can defend. Instead, they got a trash PF that can't shoot or defend and a shooting guard/SF/but sometimes a PG who gets torched on defense on a nightly basis. For every point Belinelli scores on offense, he gives up twice as many on defense. Unfortunately for the Spurs, Belinelli plays a much bigger role than Neal did so every mistake he makes gets magnified x2.

[Raven]

Like being the 3 pts best shooter in the league ? :lol

7 M dude...

:lol garbage time statistics.. and it's not going to last anyway, he's not as good as he has been from 3pt range, he just had a stretch of like 20 games when defenders didn't pay attention to him.

[Brazil]

:lol garbage time statistics.. and it's not going to last anyway, he's not as good as he has been from 3pt range, he just had a stretch of like 20 games when defenders didn't pay attention to him.

garbage time ? defenders didn't pay attention to him ? :lol

btw I'm waiting for your FA at 7M 2 years available that would be better than him

[venitian navigator]

Kirilenko was not coming here...he was contacted and he was our first choice, but he was not coming here.
So the Neal + ak 47 idea never had the chance to come true.
Its obvious that ak 47 took something "more" from the Nets in some sort of way than the three millions...

That said, I don't understand, looking at the present season, how is possible to still compare Neal to Beli.
Neal is not playing well in Milwaukee. Beli is playing more than decently for us.
It's been a winning switchc, at least at the moment. No possible doubt about that...

And speaking of Ayres, for what he's paid he's playing decently and improving by the day...(at least he's not missing dunks anymore)...in a complicate system and with an expanded role.
Once he'll got accostumed on the defensive rules of our team, imho he'll be able to give us a solid contribution.

Like said before, at the moment our losses with the top teams are explained by the lack of production of our first unit.
My hope is that they're just coasting till the play offs, considering that in regular season a win with a scrub team is equal to a win with a top team...

[ChumpDumper]

lol Kirilenko.

spurfan has more alternate realities than comic books.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

We honestly just need to have Green starting. The Bel experiment has gone wrong when he starts. Ginobili and Belinelli off the bench with Diaw was so effective at the beginning of the year. I understand that our starters were having offensive troubles at the beginning of the year (which is why they put a playmaker in there), but it's not the case anymore. I'd rather Ginobili start than Bel.

[TheGoldStandard]

We honestly just need to have Green starting. The Bel experiment has gone wrong when he starts. Ginobili and Belinelli off the bench with Diaw was so effective at the beginning of the year. I understand that our starters were having offensive troubles at the beginning of the year (which is why they put a playmaker in there), but it's not the case anymore. I'd rather Ginobili start than Bel.

Problem is still there, but green should be in the starting lineup.

[ChumpDumper]

The Splitter/Duncan starting lineup doesn't work anymore. That's the big deal.

[DPG21920]

I, after seeing a season long sample size that resulted in a finals berth, am not ready to say TnT doesn't work anymore. It's been rough to start this year, but I don't think it's done.

[r0drig0lac]

Problem is still there, but green should be in the starting lineup.
this

[T Park]

The Splitter/Duncan starting lineup doesn't work anymore. That's the big deal.

Respectfully disagree. The defensive numbers prove otherwise.

[ChumpDumper]

Respectfully disagree. The defensive numbers prove otherwise.The offensive numbers are pretty dreadful. I'm not saying ditch it all together, just don't spot the other team so many points from the tip.

[dbestpro]

Lol,as soon as Green is back in the line up, blowing layups, and losing the ball off the dribble, Spurs fan will be crying for Beli to be back in the line up. Green gets a pass while not playing more than he does when he plays. That tells you all you need to know.

[Baam]

The team has a 0.1% chance of getting past the second round of the PO, might as well blow it up and get picks for the two strongest drafts in years...

[TheGoldStandard]

The team has a 0.1% chance of getting past the second round of the PO, might as well blow it up and get picks for the two strongest drafts in years...

Time to take off the Spurs goggles and really explore what we can do with our core 3 guys realistically in the next season or so with the offense/defense and players we have.. I agree about picks though, I don't think we have enough assets to land anyone through trades or to pick up a free agent with our cap space so we will have to draft and play them in the weakest spots we have.

The hard part is just managing the cap space that we have because we carry bloated contracts.

[Raven]

garbage time ? defenders didn't pay attention to him ? :lol

btw I'm waiting for your FA at 7M 2 years available that would be better than him

1-7 from 3 yesterday... you see the pattern? and our second rounder would have been better.

[Raven]

bump

[Brazil]

1-7 from 3 yesterday... you see the pattern? and our second rounder would have been better.

again what FA at 7M 2 years would have been better than Beli ?

[Raven]

again what FA at 7M 2 years would have been better than Beli ?

again, any.

[Johnny RIngo]

again, any.

The Belli signing wasn't bad. He's been useful, at least. Bigger problem was not picking up a backup SF or a half-decent rotation big. Between Ayres, Baynes, DeColo, Joseph, there's a lot of dead weight on the team.

[Brazil]

again, any.

:lol

ok so you have no clue whatsoever but still bitch about a very good signing

[Raven]

:lol

ok so you have no clue whatsoever but still bitch about a very good signing

what is it that you don't understand about ANY? Any meaning absolutely any nba player would have been better than this cancer. How bad does he need to play before you're convinced, you say it, put up some numbers, i'll wait, don't worry.

[monkeypunk]

Anyone bitching about Beli should blame Pop. Beli was killing it on the second unit but once Pop swapped him for DG on the starting lineup, his production took a dive.

Put Beli back on the bench and his numbers should come back, especially paired with Diaw.

[Brazil]

what is it that you don't understand about ANY? Any meaning absolutely any nba player would have been better than this cancer.

ridiculous post

no need to go further

[monkeypunk]

ridiculous post

no need to go further

+1

[DPG21920]

The only thing I'm ready to meltdown on is Manu. I am very alarmed that just like last year, he started off strong, suffered an injury to his hamstring then had his season largely derailed. It's still early, but the with that hammy injury again he's played noticeably worse and his shot is completely broken as of late.

:depressed

[Brazil]

:depressed

you are worst than Amused DPG really.... :depressed