Heat, Celtic, Grizz trade

[tempest186]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/36867/20050802/three_team_blockbuster_williams_and_walker_going_t o_miami/


Three-Team Blockbuster Nearing Completion

2nd August, 2005 - 6:03 pm
RealGM - The Miami Heat , Memphis Grizzlies and Boston Celtics have reached a tentative agreement on a three-team trade according to an NBA source close to the negotiations who spoke with DraftExpress.com’s Jonathan Givony.

The Miami Heat will receive Antoine Walker via a sign-and-trade from Boston, as well as Jason Williams and James Posey from the Grizzlies.

The Grizzlies will receive Eddie Jones from Miami and Marcus Banks from Boston.

The Celtics will receive Earl Watson via a sign-and-trade from Memphis, as well as Dorrell Wright or Miami’s trade exception.

Watson’s inclusion in the trade is a new twist to the deal, satisfying their need for a starting point guard. He will reportedly receive the mid level exception.

Report written by RealGM's Christopher Reina.

[mookie2001]

seems like miami is making off like bandits

[ShoogarBear]

Antoine Walker AND Jason Williams on the same team?

Now THAT's entertainment!

[Kori Ellis]

Wow, Watson being in the deal is big difference. I wonder if it will actually go down like that.

[timvp]

Antoine Walker will never be a team player. I say let him go to Miami and ruin that team.

[ShoogarBear]

If there's anyone who might get Walker to listen up and settle down, it'd be Shaq.

If Toine plays under control, he's a very versatile piece, and would make Miami very dangerous.

[Solid D]

Miami = New Jack City

[mookie2001]

i think antoine played really good for the mavs
he was inshape and racking up pts, rbs and assts
and hes younger than duncan
plus posey can ball and jwill can be a very capable backup

[Sense]

i think antoine played really good for the mavs
he was inshape and racking up pts, rbs and assts
and hes younger than duncan
plus posey can ball and jwill can be a very capable backup


:lmao

[mookie2001]

he did not play well for dallas?
hes not younger than duncan?
posey sucks?
and jwills a shitty backup?

[FromWayDowntown]

he did not play well for dallas?

Dallas went backwards while Walker was there, from WCF in 2003 to 1st Round exit in 2004.


hes not younger than duncan?

Walker is younger by 109 days. He was born on 8/12/76; Tim was born on 4/25/76. Besides, Walker has been in the NBA for one more season than Tim has and has played in 100+ more games than Tim has.


and jwills a shitty backup?

I wouldn't want JWill as a starter unless I had very, very few options. I don't like him as a backup because he's way to worried about finding his own shot and, when things aren't going well for him, he'll jack up ridiculous shots to try to get going. He doesn't play the type of sound, smart basketball that championship teams need, IMO. I don't think he's going to be a very good backup.

[benjirh]

I think they will let Jones walk and will use Williams as their starter.

[ShoogarBear]

I think they will let Jones walk and will use Williams as their starter.

Maybe. I'm not sure that J-Will would be an upgrade in that situation, though.

[benjirh]

The deal wouldn't be horrible for anyone. Memphis does get a big contract, but getting rid of Williams and getting Banks is pretty decent. Boston upgrades their pg. And Miami is now more solid as long as everyone can keep their heads together.

[benjirh]

Maybe. I'm not sure that J-Will would be an upgrade in that situation, though.

I don't think he will be, but I just see Cleveland or someone else paying him decent money. And if they do this trade, I don't see Jones wanting to be there.

[mookie2001]

except mia gets 3 good players and boston gets 1, mem gets zero

[190 Octane]

jwills a shitty backup?

Thing is, this deal would send Eddie Jones to Memphis. The plan is to move DWade over to the 2 and start Jason Williams. It's not that Jason Williams is a shitty back-up, but he's definitely not a very good starter. The thing I find particularly interesting is assuming the Heat don't deal Damon Jones, they'll have a better PG coming off the bench then they'll have starting.

[picnroll]

Reportedly Antoine was the one player in college TD couldn't stomach. That says a lot about Walker. Damon and Eddie Jones were the Heats best long range shooters. Hopefully Cleveland or someone else lands Damon from Miami. Let Williams and Antoine jack up the threes to space the floor.

[SpursFanDan]

Why do teams always think that they need all of these all-stars? Its only gonna hurt them, too many head cases.

[mookie2001]

i think it would be a big mistake to take the ball out of wades hands
but fuck the heat, go for it

[190 Octane]

except mia gets 3 good players and boston gets 1, mem gets zero

I'll put the Miami gets three good players argument on hold for the simple fact all three are talented, but in the case of Antoine Walker and Jason Williams, neither has proven to have a winning attitude. Any team that gets Walker is itching to deal him by season's end.

But Memphis gets no good players? So you're saying Eddie Jones and his 13 ppg, 5 rpg, and 3 apg were no good?

[The_Game]

the heat just became the favourites to win the title

[Gummi]

IF TRUE, then the Miami Heat got alot more depth then last season. Eddie Jones, if true, is gone. JWill isn't going to accept comming off the bench. The Heat know that they've lost out in the Damon Jones race IMO so they went out and got a capable starting PG. I'm no fan of JWill but he's a solid PG.

Posey is a player that I've liked for a couple of years. He's been my ideal replacement for Bowen. I'm not sure he's going to like his playing time though in Miami. With Wade and Walker taking most of the swing positions minutes. Not much left for Posey.

[ambchang]

he did not play well for dallas?
hes not younger than duncan?
posey sucks?
and jwills a shitty backup?
Well, it really depends how you look at it.
He averaged career lows in almost every category in Dallas (along with the minutes of course). He shot .428 from the field (which is actually good from him) .269 from 3, .554 on FTs, not exactly well. And as a PF, close to 1/3 of his FGs were 3pters. Not saying he sucked, but he wasn't playing that well either.
His age was about 4 months younger than Duncan, but I am not sure how this factors into the conversation. Luke Walton is even younger, doesn't mean anything.
Posey was a very effective SF, unfortunately, he was hurt most of last year. Hopefully, he will bounce back this year.
As for Jwill, his game is extremely erratic. I am not sure how he will play as a backup, and I don't pretend I have seen him enough as a backup to make that judgement.
However, given Shaq preference to get the ball every single time down low, I am not sure how he would react to the quick triggers of Walker and Williams.

[mookie2001]

well sometimes awalker is one of those guys who gets called old one day and it just sticks, even when hes not old at all

[mavsfan1000]

Antoine Walker is on the perfect team. Dallas had to play without a center when Walker was in Dallas and the chemistry didn't work but with Shaq at center should make it easier for Walker and he can play his natural position. Great acquisition.

[Mr. Body]

Walker is younger by 109 days. He was born on 8/12/76; Tim was born on 4/25/76. Besides, Walker has been in the NBA for one more season than Tim has and has played in 100+ more games than Tim has.


This is really surprising. How come Walker seems so washed up if he's not even 30?

[sickdsm]

Posey is the real key of this trade IMO.

At the very least williams and Walker off the bench are an improvement to their bench last year.

[Spurologist]

Pat Riley wants to coach the heat. He is trying to find a reason to give van gundy the boot. In comes J-will and Toine to the rescue.

[Medvedenko]

Interesting trade...although more teams involved.....oh and f the heat.

[picnroll]

Looks like Celtics are going to waive Qyntel Woods.

link (http://celtics.bostonherald.com/celtics/view.bg?articleid=96387)

[Nash to Amare]

The heat are going to own the spurs next year.

[smeagol]

The heat are going to own the spurs next year.
Thanks for backing that statement up :rolleyes

[Nash to Amare]

The Heat have everything in no weaknesses. Bowen can't guard Wade because Wade is too quick for anyone. I don't see anyone beating the Heat next year.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

The Heat have everything in no weaknesses. Bowen can't guard Wade because Wade is too quick for anyone. I don't see anyone beating the Heat next year.

I see Jason Williams and Antoine Walker beating the Heat next year. Williams, while I think he's an upgrade as a PG from Damon Jones, is far from perfect. Posey is great if he's healthy but there's some serious questions as to how healthy his feet will ever be. And Walker? That guy has been nothing but trouble wherever he's gone.

As far as guarding Wade goes, you might be right that he's too quick for anyone to cover, but he's not going to carry that team all the way to a championship.

[alamo50]

You knew Shaq was gonna order Jones out the door.
Now I wonder how Williams and Shaq will be functioning on court?
I don't have the slightest idea?

[Nash to Amare]

The inside out game of the heat should make it easy for Walker and J. Williams to adjust there. Shaq makes everyone better and Posey should be fine for next year. I never heard anything about his injuries being career threatening but if normal should do a good job containing Ginobili.

[picnroll]

Walker likes to have the ball and dribble. Williams likes to have the ball and dribble. Wade likes to have the ball and dribble. Going to need more balls.

[Nash to Amare]

That might be true but having Shaq will make it easier for anyone to take the ball off the dribble. Shaq will be tripled all the time in the paint that will open the floor for everyone. Kobe is not the same without Shaq.

[picnroll]

Good defensive teams like Spurs, Pistons, Rockets play Shaq man up. A Suns' fan wouldn't know that of course.

[Nash to Amare]

I like to see San Antonio do that. Shaq and Wade are going to go off while Walker and Williams will still get theirs off the dribble. Double threat.

[picnroll]

I like to see San Antonio do that.
Watch some tape of the Spurs playing Shaq for the last 5 or 6 years then.

[Nash to Amare]

Walker and J. Williams are more than just role players. If you don't help out on them a little than they will score to. The Heat are the lakers 2 years ago with Malone and Payton. The Heat have too many threats for the spurs to shut them down.

[Nash to Amare]

It's not like the Heat are weak on defensive either. Posey is a defensive stopper and can score to.

[picnroll]

If I were a Suns fan I'd figure I have no chance against the Heat too.

[Nash to Amare]

Don't try to change the argument. Heat>Spurs now with their additions which is 3 good players for 1 which is blockbuster like.

[ambchang]

Walker and J. Williams are more than just role players. If you don't help out on them a little than they will score to. The Heat are the lakers 2 years ago with Malone and Payton. The Heat have too many threats for the spurs to shut them down.

And that Lakers team won what?
The spurs are quite different than they were a year ago. They have a much more varied offense to go with their stifling defense.
As for the Heat, I believe what they wanted to do is have 3 pt shooters, so teams cannot double on Shaq and leave them open, while also opening up the lanes for Dwayne Wade. Problem is, neither Williams nor Walker are particularly good 3pt shooters. They make quite a few, but that's because they shoot a lot, not because of their marksmenship. Posey on the other hand, is a good defender and a good shooter, but he is hardly an upgrade over Eddie Jones.
Wait and see how this works, I just can't see how 3 players who need to dominate the ball can satisfy an inside player who has a history of complaining about touches.
BTW, Kobe didn't get significantly worse after Shaq left, he got hurt.
03-04: 24.0 ppg on 43.8FG%/5.5rpg/5.1apg/1.72spg
04-05: 27.6ppg on 43.3FG%/5.9rpg/6apg/1.3spg
and please don't bring thatmiss the playoffs thing, the Lakers were w/o Shaq, Malone, Payton and Phil Jackson, while having to work in a new system in which the coach quit during the middle of the season.

[picnroll]

If you say so.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Heat>Spurs


LOL!!! That reminds me alot of myself when I first joined here............ :spin

...and we all know how that turned out......lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Well if the idea is going to be "They'll get tons of open looks when teams double and triple Shaq," then they are just going to lose to the Pistons again, or if they get past the Pistons, they'll lose to the Spurs. Shaq is starting to break down, whether the Heat fans want to admit it or not. As a result fewer and fewer teams are going to be throwing double and triple teams and he's going to be on the floor less and less. And even with wide open looks I don't know how good you think Williams and Walker are at shooting the rock. The last few years teams have figured out that you can back off them and practically dare them to shoot and most of the time they can't and won't make you pay for it.

The only way this combination of guys won't hurt the team is if SVG or Riles can somehow get White Chocolate to not shoot so damn much and move towards being a pure point guard, more in the tradition of Jason Kidd, because there's no shortage of guys now who are going to want the ball...alot.

[1Parker1]

LOL!!! That reminds me alot of myself when I first joined here............ :spin

...and we all know how that turned out......lol


:lol

[CaptainLate]

And even with wide open looks I don't know how good you think Williams and Walker are at shooting the rock. The last few years teams have figured out that you can back off them and practically dare them to shoot and most of the time they can't and won't make you pay for it.

Re: Walker, Riley said this: "Antoine Walker is one of the very best multi-faceted, versatile players in this game. ... He is able to handle the ball, pass it, make plays, shoot 3's and rebound the ball. There isn't anyone in this league better at doing that.''

Well, Mr. Riley, you're right, Walker can definitely shoot 3's. But what good does that do if you don't make them?

[ChumpDumper]

It'll be interesting to see how the minutes will be split between Haslem and Walker.

[CaptainLate]

The heat are going to own the spurs next year.

Opinions are like...

[CaptainLate]

That might be true but having Shaq will make it easier for anyone to take the ball off the dribble. Shaq will be tripled all the time in the paint that will open the floor for everyone. Kobe is not the same without Shaq.

Steve Kerr wrote: Miami's window of opportunity will only last as long as Shaq's body holds up. Whether that's one year or five years, nobody knows.

Steve's right. This deal was made because the Heat window for a title is closing. I figure only two years w/Shaq's age. But I predicted earlier in the week that Shaq won't play 60 games next year. In fact, I'll revise that prediction and say he won't ever play 60 games in a whole season again. His body is broken (the idiot didn't take care of it because "I got mine and I've got other interests now) and it's going to get worse with each passing year. He also won't finish in the top two (probably 3) for league MVP ever again.

[CaptainLate]

And that Lakers team won what?
The spurs are quite different than they were a year ago. They have a much more varied offense to go with their stifling defense.

And let's not forget our new shooting coach (thanks George Karl, hehehe) which will improve our FT % and Tony's form.

[Nash to Amare]

LOL!!! That reminds me alot of myself when I first joined here............ :spin

...and we all know how that turned out......lol
Except your team was lucky to get in the finals due to injury plagued heat team that is clearly better when healthy. Miami will beat Detroit in 5 next year if healthy. Heat in 7 vs. the spurs.

[Nash to Amare]

what's funny about that? Detroit doesn't have LB anymore and Miami just got alot better.