5 team trade going down

[kolko]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/12285950.htm


The Heat on Tuesday was also finalizing the details on a five-team trade that would send Antoine Walker, Jason Williams, James Posey and Andre Emmett to Miami. The Heat would send Eddie Jones to Memphis, Rasual Butler to New Orleans and Qyntel Woods to Boston.

The Celtics would also receive Curtis Borchardt, the rights to the Heat's 2004 second-round pick Albert Miralles and two more future second-round picks. Utah would receive Greg Ostertag, and the Hornets, who are under the salary cap, would also get former lottery pick Kirk Snyder. Boston also would receive two second-round picks.

All parties were attempting to finalize the trade through the NBA on Tuesday night.

The deal includes Walker, 28, signing a six-year contract worth $52 million. The Heat would ideally like to use Walker off the bench, similar to the role Heat assistant coach Bob McAdoo played with the Lakers in the 1980s.

The Heat's preferred starting lineup would include Williams, Dwyane Wade, Udonis Haslem and O'Neal, with the small forward spot still to be decided. Posey played only 50 games last season because of injuries to both feet, and his health may be a concern to the Heat.

[timvp]

:wtf

Where are the Kings involved? Doesn't make sense.

[ace3g]

why couldnt the spurs got involved in this trade and get Rasual Butler

[kolko]

:wtf

Where are the Kings involved? Doesn't make sense.

Why?

[timvp]

Ostertag is on the Kings.

[Kori Ellis]

They obviously left out some pieces. I'm assuming that this is combining the new 3 team trade (Miami-Mem-Bos) with the Sac-Mem-Utah trade that was previously reported that was sending out Bobby Jackson, etc.

[kolko]

Ostertag is on the Kings.

He was traded to Memphis earlier today.

http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/release-050802-wells_traded.html

[spurschick]

Ostertag is on the Kings.

Didn't he get traded to Memphis, and then to Utah?

[timvp]

He was traded to Memphis earlier today.

http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/release-050802-wells_traded.html

I hadn't seen that trade go thru. That's different than the trade reported earlier.

Now let me think about it to see if it works :)

[picnroll]

So how did Borchardt get in the deal?

I want to see a 30 team trade.

[Banks91]

yo , miami is about to get seriously scary, at least on paper. Shaq plays shaq, wade is kobe, jwill is a better payton, and Walker is a slightly better malone. On paper those 4 look better then the Fab 4 of 2004.

[Kori Ellis]

I wonder if this trade is happening or the 3 team trade with Miami-Mem-Bost -- that one reportedly involved some different players from Memphis - including Earl Watson.

[Banks91]

if this goes down, miami has officially become eastern conference favourites. dont mean they will actually end up winnin anything ,but i kno this has to put some fear into
the hearts of detroit fans.

[Pistons < Spurs]

if this goes down, miami has officially become eastern conference favourites. dont mean they will actually end up winnin anything ,but i kno this has to put some fear into
the hearts of detroit fans.

Gonna be a tough year for sure. Miami, Jersey, Indy and the Cavs are all making a serious commitment to win NOW.

[timvp]

if this goes down, miami has officially become eastern conference favourites. dont mean they will actually end up winnin anything ,but i kno this has to put some fear into
the hearts of detroit fans.

:lol

Miami will be far less dangerous. AWalker might be the worst player in the league. To think he will suddenly not be a ballhog is putting too much stock in his character. He always has been a ballhog and always will be.

JWill is decent, but probably not any better than Damon Jones. JWill all but quit last year in the playoffs. And the year before that, Parker owned him like few players ever get owned.

Posey is the only wildcard, but his foot injury is supposedly career threatening. Jerry West loves him and wouldn't give him away if he didn't think there was something wrong.

Rasual Butler was a good role player. Qyntel Woods has a lot of potential (and is a player the Spurs have long wanted), despite his off the court troubles.

[Spurminator]

So with the most reliable post scorer in the NBA on the team, the Miami Heat have now added two of the most wreckless 3-point-heavers in the NBA. Less touches for Shaq and Wade = Miami worse off.

I expect in-fighting by January.

[Banks91]

umm, about walker, i guess u didnt catch his one year stint in dallas huh. He can play
normal, trust me. Plus he is playin with shaq, u dont think Shaq will keep his ass in line.

[Banks91]

plus actually having a chance to win a championship , that always does wonders for players that like to act up. Like GIG said, ur not gonna see a wild jwill, u can bet on that.

[picnroll]

I want to see the Shaq gorilla walk and the Toine shimmy together. That will be more ass wiggling than PT's on a Friday night.

[Spurminator]

Walker sucked in Dallas. It was a slight improvement over his last Boston years, but he still sucked. The guy is incapable of being a role player. He doesn't have enough talent to be a go-to player on a Championship team, and he doesn't have the brains to be a supporting player on any team.

[timvp]

umm, about walker, i guess u didnt catch his one year stint in dallas huh. He can play
normal, trust me. Plus he is playin with shaq, u dont think Shaq will keep his ass in line.

The one year in Dallas where the Mavs got a lot worse and Walker shot 26% from three-point range but still jacked up over 300 threes?

Yeah, I remember.

[timvp]

plus actually having a chance to win a championship , that always does wonders for players that like to act up. Like GIG said, ur not gonna see a wild jwill, u can bet on that.

JWill hasn't been wild for a couple years now. He's now an annual league leader in assists/turnover ratio. That's not the problem. The problem is he's a poor defender, a streaky shooter and not very mentally tough.

[picnroll]

JWill also makes bad decisons at critical times. That has not changed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

i kno this has to put some fear into
the hearts of detroit fans.

I doubt they're afraid of two guys taking shots away from Wade and Shaq. Hell, probably cheering it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Like DJONES was good defensively? Posey, Shaq, and Wade can all D up.

Damon Jones wasn't the best defender ever, but still better than JWill. And let's not even talk about three point shooting.

Face it, you're wrong.

[exstatic]

This is just Riles attempt to make SVG feel better by stocking the roster with players that he would NEVER coach. :lol

[goliath]

Really dont see why Miami is making such drastic changes to its roster.

This team was one Wade injury from getting to the Finals. Even then they still came a couple of possessions away.

[goliath]

Maybe Marriotti was right on PTI today.

He said Jwill is a coach killer and Riley is bringing him over so he can fire Stan later on in the year

[texbumTHElife]

Looks like the Heat are trying to mimic the Spurs to me.

A flashy quick athletic streaky PG (Parker/JWill)
An atheltic attacking SG (Manu/Wade)
A long defensive 3 (Bowen/Posey)
An outside shooting 3/4/5 (Horry/Walker)
A dominate post scorer. (Duncan/Shaq)

[CaptainLate]

So with the most reliable post scorer in the NBA on the team, the Miami Heat have now added two of the most wreckless 3-point-heavers in the NBA. Less touches for Shaq and Wade = Miami worse off.

I expect in-fighting by January.

But with Shaq hurt...

[yavozerb]

Let those Eastern teams battle it out for once!! Whoever has come out of the west the past couple of years has never had an easy series to get to the championship. I welcome this shift cause it will make it easier for the spurs!!

[Horry For 3!]

Thats a huge deal if it goes down.

[Supergirl]

yo , miami is about to get seriously scary, at least on paper. Shaq plays shaq, wade is kobe, jwill is a better payton, and Walker is a slightly better malone. On paper those 4 look better then the Fab 4 of 2004.


No way is ANtoine Walker a "slightly better Malone" ...dude barely plays defense and doesn't like to play in the paint, which is why he jacks up so many bad 3's.

No way is JWill better than Payton. Even an aging Payton is better than the erratic, inconsistant, but talented JWill.

This is not the fab 4 or the Lakers (who still couldn't win a title) and it's not even any better than the starting 5 of the Pistons or the Suns.

[Supergirl]

Really dont see why Miami is making such drastic changes to its roster.

This team was one Wade injury from getting to the Finals. Even then they still came a couple of possessions away.


Well said.

[Banks91]

ur in denial if u believe jwill isnt better then payton, his reputation has u thinkin he is better then he really is. And as far as walker and malone, cmon on now, malone didnt have a low post game with shaq in the game, so he was almost useless other then defense, and his defense alone doesnt make him better then walker.

[Nikos]

The thing that pisses me off is Posey. If he is healthy and plays like he did in 0304, Miami is going to probably better than the Spurs if they find their chemistry and stay healthy.

If Posey does not pan out, this trade isn't really an upgrade for the Heat.

[adidas11]

I'm not too sure if Miami should have gone through with this trade. They established such an identity for themselves last year, and were a Shaq thigh bruise and a Wade rib cage injury from going to and perhaps winning the NBA Finals.

Losing Eddie Jones might hurt them more than they think. Jones was HUGE for Miami last season on the defensive end, always drawing the opposing teams best perimeter wing player and helping to shut them down (Rip Hamilton, for example)

We will have to wait and see how this one pans out in the long run.

[picnroll]

As a side note wtf is West doing with the Grizz? Is he trying to line them up for a shot at Oden in '07?

[Pistons < Spurs]

MIAMI -- In the largest trade in NBA history, Antoine Walker was dealt from Boston to Miami on Tuesday night in a transaction involving five teams and 13 players.

The Heat also acquired point guard Jason Williams and small forward James Posey from Memphis, while the Grizzlies received guard Eddie Jones from the Heat. The New Orleans Hornets and Utah Jazz were also involved in the deal.

The trade was larger than a 12-player, four-team deal in 2000 involving Patrick Ewing that had been the biggest in league history.

Miami also received Andre Emmett from Memphis and the draft rights to Roberto Duenas from the Hornets; Utah received Greg Ostertag from Memphis; Boston picked up Curtis Borchardt from Utah and a package -- Qyntel Woods, the draft rights to Albert Miralles, two second-round draft picks and cash -- from Miami; New Orleans acquired Rasual Butler from Miami and Kirk Snyder from Utah; and the Grizzlies received guard Raul Lopez from the Jazz.

[TwoHandJam]

I'm with timvp on this one. It's really subtraction by addition in adding Walker and Williams to the Heat. Those two each disrupt teams in their own way and will really hurt overall chemistry, especially Walker stealing touches with his horrible fg% for a forward. Posey is the lone bright spot but I'd venture to say that even if he returns to health, he alone won't be enough to overcome the problems the other two will bring.

[Mr. Body]

It all depends on the 'Shaq Effect.' How much does he improve players put around him? It's already been demonstrated he makes (with a good coach) good role players out of decent talent. But what of a couple of the most erratic players in the league?

1. Look at J-Will's and Walker's shooting percentages. They define horrible. Not just horrible shooters, their shot selections are horrible. Maybe good coaching can affect this; Walker certainly has never had a coach tell him to holster his pistols.

2. Defense. Haslem is nice, Shaq blocks some shots, and Zo will if he stays. Otherwise they'll have problems stopping people. Again, good coaching goes a long way. Posey's health is a factor.

3. Outside shooting. I'm not clear on whether they're loosing Damon Jones. I guess nobody really knows at this point. He was a good bench player last year forced to start (and may think of himself as a starter). If he's gone, what kind of perimeter threat do they have? Wade isn't a three point shooter yet. As for Walker and Williams... I refer you to point #1... look at their shooting stats. The word execrable comes to mind... or excrement...

OVERALL: I like the trade. Miami needed to make some changes. Surprising to say, since they came close to making the Finals. But trading one decent talent for three decent talents is a good boost. I'll bet Antoine Walker has one of the worst +/- stats in the league for someone of his 'stature,' but coaching and a dominate presence like Shaq's can change a lot of things.

Miami fans are crowing this may be the best line up ever. Not hardly. Intriguing, though. I fully expect it to implode.

[Brutalis]

Miami just got snubbed.

Betrayed EJ in the process.

[baseline bum]

I'm with timvp. Antoine Walker is by far the worst player in this game. A player who sucks and knows he sucks usually makes up for it a bit by being a great hustle guy, putting extra effort into his D, commiting hard fouls, putting his body on the line and drawing charges, etc. Walker is just a guy who thinks he's a superstar, and he's proof that any NBA player can put up numbers if he gets a lot of touches.

He's got to be the most inefficient offensive player I've ever seen, and his defense is even worse. Never should Antoine Walker ever be compared to Karl Malone. Malone had his weaknesses, but he was always an asset to his team in the first 47 minutes of a game.

Antoine Walker destroyed a Dallas team that looked like a sure-fire title contender for years to come. Does anyone remember how good that 2003 Mavericks team was? 60-22... they were the best offensive team I've seen in the last 10 years or so. They were devastating on the break, and very good in the halfcourt too. They never turned the ball over. This team dropped like 92 in a half of a freaking playoff game. That team really looked like it was going to develop into something special. They posted 2 come from behind victories in SBC Center from like 18 down in the conference finals. Tell me that's not a team going places. All of a sudden the next season they're a very average 52-30, they don't care care of the ball so well anymore, and Cuban's convinced Dallas' run is over and rebuilds for the future.

There is just nothing I like about Antoine Walker's game. He has range... big deal. You don't want your PF shooting threes unless his name is Robert Horry and he has 6 rings, with every single one of them due in no small part to his clutch shooting, and a couple of amazing performances in the most pressure packed of situations.

Antoine Walker's shot selection is a lot like Larry Bird's. The only thing is Bird is the greatest shooter this game has ever seen. When he put up a bad shot it still usually went in. Antoine Walker can't even hit the open threes every one of his opponents dares him to jack up every single night.

As bad a shooter and as much of a ballhog as he is, his heart is even worse. Did you see the way that gimp just got dominated by Kenyon Martin in 2003 in the second round? It was like seeing Tyson-Spinks on the hardwood 4 times. Not Shaq... not Duncan... not KG.... freaking Kenyon Martin bent him over and rode him home.

[dbreiden83080]

I would not have made this trade if i was the Heat, Posey is a good pickup but Walker is not better than Jones. I know he is younger but with Shaq turning 34 next year this is a win now team anyway. Jones is a better defender and is not that far off ofensively from walker either. Jones is also a better team player, this was really evident when Walker was in Dallas he was surrounded by other star players and sucked he is not a great team guy never has been.

[mavsfan1000]

Posey is very close to Jones when he is healthy. Look at his first year in with the Grizzlies and compare it to Eddie Jones. This team could win it all.

[Dex]

I think everything that needed to be said, the intelligent posters around here have already covered.

So hooray for Miami. They now have the anti-rabbit's-foot of the NBA. Let them have fun with their bad luck charm. :spin

[Mr. Body]

Piling on... Antoine Walker has a truly horrendous free throw percentage. Like 55% or so for a few years now.

[TheTruth]

And Damon Jones' ugly a$$ is now free to fade into bolivia.

[T Park]

were a Shaq thigh bruise and a Wade rib cage injury from going to and perhaps winning the NBA Finals.



Right, the Heat would beat the Spurs.

Sure.......

Spurs wouldve beaten Miami in 5.

People underestimate how freakin good Detroit WAS.

[TheTruth]

Right, the Heat would beat the Spurs.

Sure.......

Spurs wouldve beaten Miami in 5.

People underestimate how freakin good Detroit WAS.
And yet the heat took them 7 with their two stars hurtin. I don't think the heat would have beaten the Spurs either, but it would have been a good series if Wade and Snack were healthy.

[Mr. Body]

Miami ultimately comes down to Shaq and Wade. How good is Wade gonna be with another year? How much worse will Shaq be with another year? It's like converging parabola.

The question is if Walker and Williams will get in the way. I'm less concerned about Williams - he'll be fine - but how destructive to team play will Antoine Walker be?

[dbreiden83080]

I know he is talented but there are reasons why this guy has been traded this much. Other than being a bad defender what are some of the other reasons he has been dealt so much?

[Dre_7]

And Damon Jones' ugly a$$ is now free to fade into bolivia.

No, its "fade into bolivian!!"

[Mavs<Spurs]

Interesting. JWill will speed up their offense, but in the past had problems with turnovers and his outside shot. Walker has talent, but like the other posters said, he is a ball hog whose shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. That is not to mention all the off the court goodies (ie attitude problems) that he brings. He has the ability to post up. However, in general he plays smaller than he is. What happens to team chemistry?
I am not sure that I would have made any major moves this offseason given that if Shaq and Wade were healthy Miami would have beaten Detroit and would have been a tough out in the Finals.
This could go either way. They added talent which has up to this point never been realized.
Also, Damon and Eddie Jones did not have great series against Detroit. Neither one is that great at creating their own shot. Certainly, Walker can do that. Jason Williams can help them get easy transition buckets.
They could possibly get much better if Walker stops jacking up shots and acting like the black hole and chills on his attitude and if JWill takes care of the ball and can hit an outside shot every once in a while. If not, this will turn out to be a mistake.
Wait and See on whether they will regret this one. :fro

[spursfor]

Wow 13 players and all the Jazz could get out of it was Greg Ostertag who IMO is the NBA equvilent to a fart joke. Honestly why is he still in the league?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Did the Heat really want Walker or was he just part of the shuffle of swapping 13 players around five teams? I can understand why they would want JWill (upgrade at PG if they can keep his 3's to a minimum) and Posey (just as good as Jones when healthy and he's younger), but Walker really throws me for a loop. He's one of those players who the teams that pick him up have high hopes for and then can wait to get rid of his ass when the season ends. I could see this trade taking the Heat straight to the top or right out the window.

[1Parker1]

I don't understand why so many people think JWill is such an improvement over Damon Jones. Jones was actually pretty great for the Heat last year. In the games I watched, he usually shot a high percentage of 3's, had limited turnovers, and managed to bring the ball up court. Sure he didn't get the flashy assists, but a lot of times, D Wade brought the ball up the court also. JWill may be a little faster than Jones, but overall, he is not much of an improvement.

Eddie Jones...that was their 3rd leading scorer and best perimeter defender. Why would they trade him away for Walker...who will be a bench player and Posy...who is coming off a serious foot injury? That's a big risk to take. Plus, once again, they are trading away their second best 3 point shooter on the team.

Heat's bench may have just gotten better, but I think they ended up downgrading their starting lineup.

[greywheel]

No, its "fade into bolivian!!"

Actually it's oblivion,
I wasn't gonna correct him, but since you started it. :angel