Stand your ground law

[baseline bum]

Should reporter Michael Scotto have pulled out his gun and shot Repug congressman Michael Grimm when he collared him and threatened to throw him off that balcony on live TV? If you were on Scotto's jury would you convict?

[boutons_deux]

Should reporter Michael Scotto have pulled out his gun and shot Repug congressman Michael Grimm when he collared him and threatened to throw him off that balcony on live TV? If you were on Scotto's jury would you convict?

Of course. Scotto could say he "felt threatened, WAS threatened with death", several witnesses and youtube video :lol, and shoot the asshole. The only good Repug politician is a dead Repug politician.

[Blake]

Should reporter Michael Scotto have pulled out his gun and shot Repug congressman Michael Grimm when he collared him and threatened to throw him off that balcony on live TV? If you were on Scotto's jury would you convict?

The guy is an ass, but it was just words. I don't think you should get stand your ground protection over just words.

In Texas, Scotto could press terroristic threat charges and have him arrested. I'd convict Grimm of that for sure.

[baseline bum]

The guy is an ass, but it was just words. I don't think you should get stand your ground protection over just words.

In Texas, Scotto could press terroristic threat charges and have him arrested. I'd convict Grimm of that for sure.

Even though dude is right up in his face, grabbing his collar and threatening to throw him off? Are you supposed to only fear for your life on the way down after you're thrown?

[boutons_deux]

The guy is an ass, but it was just words. I don't think you should get stand your ground protection over just words.

In Texas, Scotto could press terroristic threat charges and have him arrested. I'd convict Grimm of that for sure.

words? If some raging asshole right next to you threatens you with death, then SYG's "I FELT threatened so I shot and killed" certainly is a SYG application.

[TSA]

He could have just unholstered his gun and watched Grimm shit his pants.

[scott]

I'm sure if not for the Capitol being a gun-free zone, this whole thing would have never happened.

[Blake]

Even though dude is right up in his face, grabbing his collar and threatening to throw him off? Are you supposed to only fear for your life on the way down after you're thrown?

he said "if you do this again, I'll throw you off the roof", right?

I dunno, I'd prefer our society not to allow thin skinned people to start firing away over heat of the moment verbal threats.

[Blake]

That said, I only saw one video on it. Was there something more physical to the threat than that?

[TSA]

That said, I only saw one video on it. Was there something more physical to the threat than that?

Not from what I saw. I only saw one video as well and I didn't see anything physical about it.

[ElNono]

No Skittles... nothing to be scared of, tbh

[baseline bum]

So you niggas would convict?

[DMC]

The guy is an ass, but it was just words. I don't think you should get stand your ground protection over just words.

In Texas, Scotto could press terroristic threat charges and have him arrested. I'd convict Grimm of that for sure.

So if I walked into LAX and said "I have a bomb" no one should feel threatened because it's just words.

[Blake]

So if I walked into LAX and said "I have a bomb" no one should feel threatened because it's just words.

hm.

I don't think I'd convict shooter there because the dude made it clear he has a weapon of deadly force that he is going to use.

[Blake]

What's the cut off for you guys?

The threat for Scotto is still there. Do you think he still has the right to go to his house and kill Grimm?

Or is it too late because he already accepted the apology?

[DMC]

hm.

I don't think I'd convict shooter there because the dude made it clear he has a weapon of deadly force that he is going to use.

So if he's made clear he's going to throw you off the roof and he's bigger than you.... you only die once either way.

No I wouldn't pull a gun on the dude for threatening me, but depending on his proximity to me, time is of the essence and you don't have a lot of recovery time to change your mind. It would be a fluid situation and could come off different on two different iterations of the same event.

[DMC]

What's the cut off for you guys?

The threat for Scotto is still there. Do you think he still has the right to go to his house and kill Grimm?

Or is it too late because he already accepted the apology?

Do you understand the term "stand your ground"?

[Blake]

So if he's made clear he's going to throw you off the roof and he's bigger than you.... you only die once either way.

No I wouldn't pull a gun on the dude for threatening me, but depending on his proximity to me, time is of the essence and you don't have a lot of recovery time to change your mind. It would be a fluid situation and could come off different on two different iterations of the same event.

I agree with that. But in this situation, it was a conditional threat, saying "if you ever do it again, I'll toss you off the balcony?"

It's tougher for me to give the ok to shoot him over that than if he said "I'm throwing you off this balcony (now)"

[Blake]

Do you understand the term "stand your ground"?

Yeah, I failed there pretty horribly.

But I'd still like to know where the cut off is. What if he said "I'm gonna break your knee caps"

[boutons_deux]

Yeah, I failed there pretty horribly.

But I'd still like to know where the cut off is. What if he said "I'm gonna break your knee caps"

kill-the-n!gg@s SYG defense appears to be wide open, completely subjective, one on has to believe to be threatened (aka faith-based killing).

And if you shoot dead black or brown, OBVIOUSLY to any red-state jury, you were being threatened.

[elbamba]

Should reporter Michael Scotto have pulled out his gun and shot Repug congressman Michael Grimm when he collared him and threatened to throw him off that balcony on live TV? If you were on Scotto's jury would you convict?

I suppose if Grimm broke his nose and started smashing Scotto's head in the pavement, he would have been justified in defending himself. If I was on the jury I would have to know what the state statute says as well as review all the evidence before I could make a conviction.

[Das Texan]

Should reporter Michael Scotto have pulled out his gun and shot Repug congressman Michael Grimm when he collared him and threatened to throw him off that balcony on live TV? If you were on Scotto's jury would you convict?


If this was in Florida, then yes he should have and he probably gets off.

[boutons_deux]

Grimm is Catholic, was a Marine, was an FBI agent, now corrupt Repug politician. quadrifecta of assholiness

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Mike_Grimm.jpg/220px-Mike_Grimm.jpg

[DMC]

Yeah, I failed there pretty horribly.

But I'd still like to know where the cut off is. What if he said "I'm gonna break your knee caps"

You're being unclear about just what cutoff you're referring to. Do you mean the legal one or the moral one?

[DMC]

kill-the-n!gg@s SYG defense appears to be wide open, completely subjective, one on has to believe to be threatened (aka faith-based killing).

And if you shoot dead black or brown, OBVIOUSLY to any red-state jury, you were being threatened.

You're like this forum clown that everyone just talks around. Nothing you say means a fucking thing in the realm of the rational.

[boutons_deux]

You're like this forum clown that everyone just talks around. Nothing you say means a fucking thing in the realm of the rational.

:lol

[Blake]

You're being unclear about just what cutoff you're referring to. Do you mean the legal one or the moral one?

per op, I'm asking from the perspective of being members of a jury where prosecution is trying Scotto for manslaughter or murder

So opinions on both cutoffs would be cool

[DMC]

per op, I'm asking from the perspective of being members of a jury that is trying Scotto for manslaughter or murder

Well it would have to go through a grand jury first to see if there was reason for a trial. If they found there was, you'd have to consider their findings. I think, if on camera the guy leans in and makes that threat, there is not imminent threat to life, just a verbal threat. If they were close to the edge of a balcony, dangerously close, then things would change. I don't think verbal threats can be answered with deadly force even under SYG.

It would not be a defense to prosecution to use SYG in that instance, because the defendant could not have escaped if cornered. It would then become a use of deadly force situation.

[Blake]

Well it would have to go through a grand jury first to see if there was reason for a trial. If they found there was, you'd have to consider their findings. I think, if on camera the guy leans in and makes that threat, there is not imminent threat to life, just a verbal threat. If they were close to the edge of a balcony, dangerously close, then things would change. I don't think verbal threats can be answered with deadly force even under SYG.

I think that's basically what I said to begin with, just in a lot less detail.

But I think if he flat out said "I'm going to shoot you right now" on camera, and it shows him reaching, even if turns out Grimm had no gun, I'd still want to acquit Scotto.

I also think that if there is a death by shooting, the grand jury would almost always send it to trial.

[DMC]

I think that's basically what I said to begin with, just in a lot less detail.

But I think if he flat out said "I'm going to shoot you right now" on camera, and it shows him reaching, even if turns out Grimm had no gun, I'd still want to acquit Scotto.

I also think that if there is a death by shooting, the grand jury would almost always send it to trial.

Yeah, the threat of immediate bodily harm by shooting when you're reaching into a concealed area is much more imminent than saying you're going to throw someone off a balcony when you're not even close to one at the moment. Had he grabbed the guy, that's different.

Grand juries don't always send death by shooting to trial.