UR list Top10 Players of All-Time

[TDMVPDPOY]

I wanna know who the players you guys considered to be the best 10 players to ever play the game.

Well heres my list:
1.wilt
2.kareem
3.jordan
4.hakeem
5.magic
6.bird
7.oscar
8.russell
9.duncan
10.shaq

Duncan can be anywhere between 6-9 when its all said and done.
I rank shaq that low because if he classified himself MDE, playin in the duncan era where no legit center poses a threat to him, he only has 3 rings. Comparing that to duncan, duncan has the same amount of rings he has and could add more.

[mavsfan1000]

Jordan is the greatest of all time.

[spursfor]

Jordan is the greatest of all time.
Why?
Yes he was talented, Yes he was dominant, Yes he won championships, but you can say that about half the players in the top 10. Great list TD!

[mavsfan1000]

Jordan should at least be second. Kareem is great but not that great. I don't see either Wilt or Kareem dominate with the rules these days in the nba. It is hard to compare the old to the new but Jordan did it all.

[IcemanCometh]

worst fucking list of all time

[TDMVPDPOY]

Jordan should at least be second. Kareem is great but not that great. I don't see either Wilt or Kareem dominate with the rules these days in the nba. It is hard to compare the old to the new but Jordan did it all.

The old guys are dominant even if the game back in those days were more high possession games, and their stats inflated due to that, but wilt dominated. Didnt he avg 50ppg for 1 season, no one even avg above 40ppg i think in his dayz. What he has over jordan is that he shagged 20000 women.:D

Kareem would be dominant today if he was playin, who can stop the skyhook?

[AFE7FATMAN]

worst fucking list of all time
Nope Not the worst, but it has plenty of holes.

Hakeem Olajuwon is not even close to top 10.

Duncan and shaq might make it some day. Shaq, I doubt it.

Since I took 3 off
Here is 3 replacements, but most of you have never seen them play.


Bob Cousy
Hal Greer
Jerry West
if you don't like these, here is three
more I rank way before the 3 I took off.
Elgin Baylor
Julius Erving
Bob Pettit

[Sense]

Why?
Yes he was talented, Yes he was dominant, Yes he won championships, but you can say that about half the players in the top 10. Great list TD!


....

Jordan did everything by himself...
He made his players what they were... kinda like duncan and Shaq..

[UTSARoadrunnerBBFan]

Without regards to number ranking....
Michael Jordan
Oscar Robertson
Bob Cousy
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
George Mikan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Jerry West
Pete Maravich

[1Parker1]

I wanna know who the players you guys considered to be the best 10 players to ever play the game.

Well heres my list:
1.wilt
2.kareem
3.jordan
4.hakeem
5.magic
6.bird
7.oscar
8.russell
9.duncan
10.shaq

Duncan can be anywhere between 6-9 when its all said and done.
I rank shaq that low because if he classified himself MDE, playin in the duncan era where no legit center poses a threat to him, he only has 3 rings. Comparing that to duncan, duncan has the same amount of rings he has and could add more.


I stopped reading after you put Jordan at.............#3????????? :rolleyes


Why?
Yes he was talented, Yes he was dominant, Yes he won championships, but you can say that about half the players in the top 10.

Obviously the players who would be considered to be the "Greatest of All Time" would be dominant and have championship experience---that's what puts them on the list in the first place.

However, MJ, isn't just your average dominating 6 time champion, MVP player. His game and what he brought to it, goes beyond that. He can score 50 some points easily. In his prime, he could easily lead his team to a 50+ win season. He made the Chicago Bulls and Scottie Pippen and PJ whot hey are today. But, aside from all that, he had the best ALL-Around game of any player on that list. People say he hogged the ball? He silenced his critics by leading the league in assists. People say he couldn't win a championship? He won 6 in a row! People said all he was is a shooter? He silenced his critics by making All-Defensive First team.

Yes, there are players out there like Duncan, Shaq, etc. who are dominant and have rings to prove it. But how can you discount a guy who changed the face of basketball, who managed to lead his team to 6 straight NBA Championships and 6 Finals MVPs, and a man who still has to be considered the #1 clutch player in basketball?

Now, I may agree with the names on your list, but #1? Has to be MJ without a doubt.

[theMUHMEshow]

I wanna know who the players you guys considered to be the best 10 players to ever play the game.

Well heres my list:
1.wilt
2.kareem
3.jordan
4.hakeem
5.magic
6.bird
7.oscar
8.russell
9.duncan
10.shaq



Well...You are an IDIOT! Kareem over Jordan...Are you kidding me? I am assuming you are just trying to get a rise out of people here...Honestly...if you think Kareem is better...You are a total moron, and I honestly mean that, your basketball knowledge is limited to the stats on NBA.com that you (I assume) just glanced at and was like "wow Kareem, he played for a long time and scored a lot, he is better then MJ" honestly, I feel dumber after taking time to actually call you out on this topic and I cannot believe that you would actually waste our time by writing garbage like that on this quality message board!


1- MJ
2- Magic
3- Wilt
4- Bird
5- Russell
6- Oscar Robertson
7- Julius Erving
8- Hakeem
9- Shaq
10- KG

[1Parker1]

Well...You are an IDIOT! Kareem over Jordan...Are you kidding me? I am assuming you are just trying to get a rise out of people here...Honestly...if you think Kareem is better...You are a total moron, and I honestly mean that, your basketball knowledge is limited to the stats on NBA.com that you (I assume) just glanced at and was like "wow Kareem, he played for a long time and scored a lot, he is better then MJ" honestly, I feel dumber after taking time to actually call you out on this topic and I cannot believe that you would actually waste our time by writing garbage like that on this quality message board!


1- MJ
2- Magic
3- Wilt
4- Bird
5- Russell
6- Oscar Robertson
7- Julius Erving
8- Hakeem
9- Shaq
10- KG


:lol KG over Duncan? How many MVP's does KG have? How many times has he carried his team to the top? Statwise--he's comparable to TD. However, he has yet to prove that he can take his team to the top, ala Tim Duncan.

[samikeyp]

so because he doesn't agree with you...he is an idiot?

its an opinion....its not right or wrong...you have yours others have theirs...doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. I could say the same about your list with KG over TD seeing as TD has 2 reg. season MVP's, three finals MVP's and three rings but I won't because I don't have the right to insult you because you feel a certain way. I may disagree but I support the right of you to voice your opinion.

[samikeyp]

My Top 10

1- Russell
2- MJ
3- Wilt
4- Magic
5- Kareem
6- Bird
7- Hakeem
8- Duncan
9- Shaq
10- Dr. J

[1Parker1]

so because he doesn't agree with you...he is an idiot?

its an opinion....its not right or wrong...you have yours others have theirs...doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. I could say the same about your list with KG over TD seeing as TD has 2 reg. season MVP's, three finals MVP's and three rings but I won't because I don't have the right to insult you because you feel a certain way. I may disagree but I support the right of you to voice your opinion.


That's funny, because I don't recall calling anyone an idiot in my post.

[1Parker1]

That's funny, because I don't recall calling anyone an idiot in my post.


:oops You were talking to the other guy......my bad!

[samikeyp]

its ok 1P..as long as you know it wasn't toward you. :)

[1Parker1]

its ok 1P..as long as you know it wasn't toward you. :)

awww. Thanks, you idiot :)

[samikeyp]

:lol

[mavsfan1000]

Jordan is greater than Kareem and Duncan is greater than KG. Those things I know and Bill Russell as #1? How can you compare these players to the greatness of Jordan. Especially in the early 90's.

[Supreme Allah]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Abdul-Jabbar
4. The Big O
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. Duncan
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Shaq

[samikeyp]

None of us "know" which player is the best of all time. We have opinions and theories but nothing concrete. These "best of all time" lists are all subjective because no two people have the same criteria. Without estabilshed agreed on criteria there can be no fact and with no fact....its all opinion and if its all opinion no one is right or wrong. Best player I ever saw play was MJ with Magic a close second.

[Dre_7]

Jordan is greater than Kareem and Duncan is greater than KG. Those things I know and Bill Russell as #1? How can you compare these players to the greatness of Jordan. Especially in the early 90's.

Russell has 11 rings!!!

[mavsfan1000]

Jordan never had a good center though. That is remarkable in itself.

[Dre_7]

Jordan never had a good center though. That is remarkable in itself.

Cartwright was pretty good.

Yes MJ is the greastest, but Russell has to be RIGHT up there.

[TDfan2007]

1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Michael Jordan
3. Bill Russel
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Oscar Robertson
8. Tim Duncan
9. Bob Cousy
10. Hakeem

The top 2 are interchangable. Duncan and hakeem get the nod over Shaq because they were more versatile while having as much (in Duncan's case more) hardware as Shaq.

[Sense]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Abdul-Jabbar
4. The Big O
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. Duncan
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Shaq

This could probably be my list...

[Mixability]

I stopped reading after you put Jordan at.............#3????????? :rolleyes



Obviously the players who would be considered to be the "Greatest of All Time" would be dominant and have championship experience---that's what puts them on the list in the first place.

However, MJ, isn't just your average dominating 6 time champion, MVP player. His game and what he brought to it, goes beyond that. He can score 50 some points easily. In his prime, he could easily lead his team to a 50+ win season. He made the Chicago Bulls and Scottie Pippen and PJ whot hey are today. But, aside from all that, he had the best ALL-Around game of any player on that list. People say he hogged the ball? He silenced his critics by leading the league in assists. People say he couldn't win a championship? He won 6 in a row! People said all he was is a shooter? He silenced his critics by making All-Defensive First team.

Yes, there are players out there like Duncan, Shaq, etc. who are dominant and have rings to prove it. But how can you discount a guy who changed the face of basketball, who managed to lead his team to 6 straight NBA Championships and 6 Finals MVPs, and a man who still has to be considered the #1 clutch player in basketball?

Now, I may agree with the names on your list, but #1? Has to be MJ without a doubt.

6 straight championships? You don't remember the 2 year gap between the Bulls 3-peats? It was 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998. I'm not trying to knock MJ down the top 10, but I'm just wanting you to get your facts straight before you go on and on about winning 6 straight rings and 6 straight finals MVP's.

[samikeyp]

Obviously the players who would be considered to be the "Greatest of All Time" would be dominant and have championship experience---that's what puts them on the list in the first place.

However, MJ, isn't just your average dominating 6 time champion, MVP player. His game and what he brought to it, goes beyond that. He can score 50 some points easily. In his prime, he could easily lead his team to a 50+ win season. He made the Chicago Bulls and Scottie Pippen and PJ whot hey are today. But, aside from all that, he had the best ALL-Around game of any player on that list. People say he hogged the ball? He silenced his critics by leading the league in assists. People say he couldn't win a championship? He won 6 in a row! People said all he was is a shooter? He silenced his critics by making All-Defensive First team.

Yes, there are players out there like Duncan, Shaq, etc. who are dominant and have rings to prove it. But how can you discount a guy who changed the face of basketball, who managed to lead his team to 6 straight NBA Championships and 6 Finals MVPs, and a man who still has to be considered the #1 clutch player in basketball?

You make excellent points 1P, but if that is the criteria used, wouldn't Bill Russell be a logical choice as well? He dominated is era much as, if not more than Jordan. His teams won the title 11 of 13 years, including 8 in a row. (A feat that could have been repeated, IMO, if Jordan doesn't play baseball) They both won 5 MVP's, IMO Russell had more competition. The only reason Russell only has one any all-defensive team nod is because the award didn't start until 1969, and the DPOY and Finals MVP's were invented after Russell retired. He made the Celtics the franchise they became. He could also score 50 at anytime and could get 30 boards if needed. In his 13 season, his team won 50 or more 10 times to MJ's 8 times out of 15 seasons. I am in no way dogging you 1P or MJ...the dude was incredible but I think a lot of it nowadays is we are all spoiled by watching MJ. Most of us on this board are too young to have seen Bill Russell play. He could score at will, jump out of the gym and re-invented the center position from one of plodding, slow guys to someone who could run a break. I am not saying you are wrong to think MJ was #1....like I said in an earlier post, no one has the right to do that...I just think that it is not as clear cut a decision. Just my .02.

[Sportcamper]

I think TDMVPDPOY's list is excellent...Wilt & Russell would dominate today just as they did decades ago...

One issue I have....Shaq at 7’ 1” & 350 lbs is just in a class of his own...There are NBA Centers...Then there is Shaquille...I don’t see anyone with such brute strength, quickness & fast hands on the horizon...

[theMUHMEshow]

I know the majority of you LOVE TD, but however...I would just LOVE TO HEAR any of you agrue the fact that if their situations were switched (KG on SA and TD in Minny) that TD would still have the rings to back his stats up! I mean come on! Minnesota has been full of joke NBA players dating back to when they shipped Billups! LOOK AT THEIR ROSTER COMPARED TO SAN ANTONIO!

Come on...Duncan is GREAT...One of the greatest PF of all times...but fuck guys...are you watching the same NBA that I am? Was I the only one that watched the NBA finals in person and on TV? TD gets bailed out by his teamates over and over again! Manu, Parker and Horry were JUST AS VALUABLE as TD was this year in the finals...and go back to the other finals?

I get a kick out of people that say TD is better than KG...just like Brady is better than Peyton. SAN ANTONIO WITH TD is better then KG and the PATROITS with Brady is better then Peyton Manning!

Take the last 5-6 years...Compare their numbers...gimme a break.

[samikeyp]

so because we disagree with you...we are not as knowledgable as you?

[samikeyp]

Career stats for both.

KG- 20.2ppg, 11.1rpg, 4.5apg, 1.4spg, 1.7blk

TD- 22.5, 12.2, 3.1, .78, 2.5


Just because someone disagrees with you about something doesn't make them less knowledgable. Its all opinion. You are not wrong by saying KG is better and I am not wrong saying TD is better, its all opinion. I don't see the need to be insulting.


and in answer to your question.....I have been watching the NBA since the early 80's.

[Sportcamper]

I think Mikey needs 2 or 3 large silver chains if he is going to pull off his new "bling bling balla from the hood" image....

http://www.mailbling.com/mikerep.jpg

And I forget...How many rings does Garnett have...Maybe a forum NBA historian knows? :smokin

[samikeyp]

at least 2 or 3! :lol

Yea Camper...I guess regular season MVP's, Finals MVP's and rings don't matter.

[a-puppy]

The few retards who are claiming that Kareem wasn't "that" great should note that he won 6 MVPs (one more than Jordan) and 6 titles. Not only that, but he was the greatest NCAA player ever and lead UCLA to gaudy success record and titlewise. He was a winner on every level -- all time leading scorer, #3 in rebs, #2 in blocks.

^ Try to downplay that and you oughtta be shot execution style...and I got me a .45 and an itchy trigger finger. Let me know where you stand.

[a-puppy]

Without regards to number ranking....
Michael Jordan
Oscar Robertson
Bob Cousy
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
George Mikan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Jerry West
Pete Maravich

This is dumb too, because for fucking CERTAIN, Magic Johnson is not the 11th best player in league history or less. The guy took 2 MVP awards away from Jordan for fuck's sake.

[bobbyjoe]

I know the majority of you LOVE TD, but however...I would just LOVE TO HEAR any of you agrue the fact that if their situations were switched (KG on SA and TD in Minny) that TD would still have the rings to back his stats up! I mean come on! Minnesota has been full of joke NBA players dating back to when they shipped Billups! LOOK AT THEIR ROSTER COMPARED TO SAN ANTONIO!

Come on...Duncan is GREAT...One of the greatest PF of all times...but fuck guys...are you watching the same NBA that I am? Was I the only one that watched the NBA finals in person and on TV? TD gets bailed out by his teamates over and over again! Manu, Parker and Horry were JUST AS VALUABLE as TD was this year in the finals...and go back to the other finals?

I get a kick out of people that say TD is better than KG...just like Brady is better than Peyton. SAN ANTONIO WITH TD is better then KG and the PATROITS with Brady is better then Peyton Manning!

Take the last 5-6 years...Compare their numbers...gimme a break.

I agree with your take except that the person you should have mentioned is Hakeem (or O'Neal). Putting Duncan over hakeem or shaq is just homerism, as you said Horry really saved Duncan's A$$ from a ewing-esque or malone-esque choke job in Game 5 this year. 1 of 7 at the FT line in the 4th Q and
a missed layup at the buzzer to win.

Hakeem in particular is just better at both ends of the court than Duncan. Hakeem may be the 2nd or 3rd best defensive big man in league history and DUncan probably doesn't crack the top 25-30 all-time defensively. Plus hakeem scored more, shot a better % from FG and FT, and did it against better competition in a better era of bball. Not even a comparison between the 2. Hakeem was also much better in the clutch. The only edge Duncan has on him is as a passer and it's not a real significant one. I won't touch the Shaq debate again, but I feel Shaq overall is better at this point in time at least.

Now on to KG, LOL. Duncan is much better than KG. The Spurs don't have 3 titles with KG instead of TD. You need post scoring in the playoffs, a back to the basket game. KG just aint got it. Very overrated player IMO.

KG: TD :: DRob: Hakeem.

[Sportcamper]

1- Wilt Chamberlain
2- Bob Cousy
3- Earvin "Magic" Johnson
4- Larry Bird
5- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6- Bill Russell
7- Jerry West
8- Oscar Robertson
9- Julius Erving
10- Michael Jordan

[samikeyp]

Putting Duncan over hakeem or shaq is just homerism

Why is a Spurs fan putting Duncan ahead of someone "homerism" but someone putting Shaq ahead of someone not homerism? Does this mean that people should not vote for players on their favorite teams for anything? Does that mean that as a Spurs fan, when I thought TD was the MVP of the league, and he was voted as such...I was being a homer? By that logic, you are being a homer by saying Shaq should be ahead of Duncan. Those three years when LA was winning titles and people were saying they were #1...it was true. By your logic all those lakers fans were just being homers when in fact LA was #1. Detroit was the best team in 03-04 but by your logic the Pistons fans who said they were #1 were homers when in fact....Detroit was #1. Believe it or not, it is possible to think someone on your favorite team is good without being a homer

[samikeyp]

The few retards who are claiming that Kareem wasn't "that" great should note that he won 6 MVPs (one more than Jordan) and 6 titles. Not only that, but he was the greatest NCAA player ever and lead UCLA to gaudy success record and titlewise. He was a winner on every level -- all time leading scorer, #3 in rebs, #2 in blocks.

didn't need the insults...but good point. by Bobbyjoe's logic....a-puppy is a Lakers homer...when in fact, he is a Spurs fan.

[bobbyjoe]

Why is a Spurs fan putting Duncan ahead of someone "homerism" but someone putting Shaq ahead of someone not homerism? Does this mean that people should not vote for players on their favorite teams for anything? Does that mean that as a Spurs fan, when I thought TD was the MVP of the league, and he was voted as such...I was being a homer? By that logic, you are being a homer by saying Shaq should be ahead of Duncan. Those three years when LA was winning titles and people were saying they were #1...it was true. By your logic all those lakers fans were just being homers when in fact LA was #1. Detroit was the best team in 03-04 but by your logic the Pistons fans who said they were #1 were homers when in fact....Detroit was #1. Believe it or not, it is possible to think someone on your favorite team is good without being a homer

The vast majority of fans outside of SA would put Duncan behind Shaq and Hakeem. Robert HOrry, who played with all 3, puts Duncan behind Shaq and Hakeem. If you look at the stats of the 3, you'd see that Duncan's are third best of the group, particularly playoff statistics. He's just not as dominant as the other 2 in their primes and it's pretty obvious unless you are blinded with Spurs homerism.

Saying MJ was better than Duncan doesn't make you a Bulls homer but saying Duncan is better than MJ is spurs homerism because it's not close enough to be debatable. This is really not rocket science, despite your convoluted, flawed post.

[samikeyp]

Saying MJ was better than Duncan doesn't make you a Bulls homer but saying Duncan is better than MJ is spurs homerism because it's not close enough to be debatable.

who said that Duncan is better than MJ? Nobody here said that. I never said that and I don't agree with it.

My point is this...someone can believe something without being blinded by homerism. I am not saying homerism doesn't exist but I am saying that not every fan is guided by it. My post was not convoluted or flawed...it just didn't agree with yours and that's cool...I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree. I have no problem with people disagreeing with anyone....I just think its uncool to insult someone just because they disagree with you.

[samikeyp]

The fun part about lists like this is that there is no clear cut one correct list. There are too many variables to accurately determine who is the best ever. You have to take into account the eras they played in, the postions they played, etc. Is it fair to compare a guard to a center or forward? The guys who played from the 80's on had the benefit of more exposure of what they did, improvements in training technology, better travel (chartered planes) , nutrional supplements etc. but that doesn't mean they are less worthy. While I don't agree with people now who ignore the players of years ago....I also think its wrong for the people who watched Russell, Wilt etc. to discount the players now as "having it too easy" Both generations of players worked their asses off to get where they are.


Got a question for Laker fan.....I once heard the argument that Magic Johnson was the best player ever because he was felt Magic was the only player that could have been a legit all star at all five positions. (In 1980 he played center in the finals and played well) For that reason....I had Magic ahead of Michael until I saw that last Utah series. What do you, as Laker fans, feel about that angle?

[theMUHMEshow]

Now on to KG, LOL. Duncan is much better than KG. The Spurs don't have 3 titles with KG instead of TD. You need post scoring in the playoffs, a back to the basket game. KG just aint got it. Very overrated player IMO.

KG: TD :: DRob: Hakeem.

I.E. Everyone of the Bulls Titles...the Pistons 88-90, 2004 lol

[theMUHMEshow]

Career stats for both.

KG- 20.2ppg, 11.1rpg, 4.5apg, 1.4spg, 1.7blk

TD- 22.5, 12.2, 3.1, .78, 2.5


Just because someone disagrees with you about something doesn't make them less knowledgable. Its all opinion. You are not wrong by saying KG is better and I am not wrong saying TD is better, its all opinion. I don't see the need to be insulting.


and in answer to your question.....I have been watching the NBA since the early 80's.


Well then I THINK you are an IDIOT for saying you have been watching the NBA since the early 80's and you make a post like that!!

FIRST OFF - TD played 4 years at WAKE...WINNING NOTHING I MIGHT ADD...Then came into the NBA and landed at the doorsteps of a GREAT team that had sandbagged their season because David Robinson went out early in the year. So they LUCKLY GOT THAT PICK...and everyone knows they were a playoff team without Duncan there anyways!! CANNOT ARGUE THAT.

SECONDLY - KG came into the NBA STRAIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, PLAYING TONS OF MINUTES. So...if you want to compare two hall of famers careers we will see their total numbers after their careers are over with...OR you can take what KG DID FROM 18-22 AS WHAT TD did 18-22 at WAKE FOREST.

KG's numbers are amazing considering he came right out of High School to a franchise that HAD JUST STARTED...he didnt get to land with one of the best big men of all times in a situation that was already established as a winning one. Say what you want...Their opportunities have not even been close in this league, from coaches to players to the front office.

Duncan got a god send going to SA...His fuckups get overshadowed way too much...

[samikeyp]

I just posted numbers from NBA.com...didn't make them up.

so I am an idiot for not agreeing with you. Fair enough. Just because you say something doesn't mean its true or vice versa. There are others, who are not Spurs fans, who would agree with me and have. You have a right to your opinion and I respect that, even if I disagree. Neither of us are really wrong here. We are stating our opinions....opinions are not fact and cannot be right or wrong.

I am not dissing KG in any way...the dude is an incredible talent and will be a hall of famer.....Say what you want but it doesn't change anything....IMO, he is a better athlete but Duncan is the better basketball player.

[UTSARoadrunnerBBFan]

This is dumb too, because for fucking CERTAIN, Magic Johnson is not the 11th best player in league history or less. The guy took 2 MVP awards away from Jordan for fuck's sake.

Chill out. I was just giving my list. I have not made one derogatory remark about anyone else's opinion on this topic. Sorry I won't post here anymore. Good bye!

[HeatChamps]

Shaq is the greatest of all time. He is unstoppable.

[2pac]

Putting Duncan over hakeem or shaq is just homerism
If Hakeem was so great, how come his teams failed to reach 50 wins 11 times in his career (not counting Toronto) and he even failed to make the playoffs in 92, while playing 70 games.

Between 88-99, the Rockets were kicked out of the first round 6 times. They missed the playoffs once, and they were swept out of the second round once.

Does a top 10 all-time player allow his team to not make the playoffs in his prime? Does he allow his team to not make the playoffs or be knocked out of the playoffs in the first round 7 times? Would he fail to reach 50 wins 11 times?

[slayermin]

My Top Ten Players of All-Time
1.) Magic
2.) Kareem
3.) Jordan
4.) Wilt
5.) Bird
6.) Duncan
7.) Olajuwon
8.) Oscar Robertson
9.) Admiral
10.) Shaq

Russell was overrated. He would still be a great rebounder and shot blocker in todays game but he couldn't score. You would have to put the perfect nucleus around him to win which Red Auerbach did.

Jordan would be number one except that he won all of his championships after Magic and Bird made their runs. No one else, during the 90's, was on his level.

I included the Admiral and Shaq in my top ten because you can't teach size. Big men should be ranked higher, imo.

I think the guys on my list all played balanced games on both ends of the court with the exception of Magic. His defense was never that great but he was versatile. He guarded every position at some point in his career which is why I pick Magic as the greatest ever. His versatility on both ends of the court made him the perfect compliment to any team. Basically, you could throw him into any situation and he would win.

[baseline bum]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Tim Duncan
8. Bill Russell
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Jerry West

Michael gets the nod at #1 because he's the toughest MF I've ever seen in the game. His athleticism is unparalled in NBA history. He was one of the greatest defenders I've ever seen. He was the most unguardable player I've ever seen. He's also the hungriest player I've ever seen. I'm still amazing at the way he attacked the basket vs the Bad-Boy Pistons, knowing he was getting clothes-lined every time he went in the air.

Magic is far and away the most versitale player I've ever seen, so he's a close #2. He's the only player in NBA History who could be All-NBA First Team at every position on the floor. Magic had it all. He could score in the post. He was the greatest ever at leading a break. He extended Kareem's career. He developed excellent range later into his career. He was the all-time assist leader in NBA History when he retired at age 32.

Bird at 3 is a no-brainer to me. He's probably the hardest worker I've ever seen. To see a guy with that talent and with those horrile back problems giving his body ever night was amazing. He dove for loose balls like he was scrub#12 at the end of the bench, fighting for a 10-day contract. He's the best shooter I've ever seen. He's the second best passer I've seen. Anytime the Celtics were down 2 with 5 second left you knew Bird was just going to run down the court and throw up a three, and he hit it most of the time. Him missing the three at the buzzer in game 4 of the 87 Finals was shocking, because we just expected him to hit every one of those based on what he had done his whole career.

Kareem gets #4 because he's a proven winner everywhere he's ever played, and he kept himself in such amazing shape that he won Finals MVP at 38. That's something I don't think we'll ever see equaled. His skyhook is the most beautiful shot I've ever seen. He may be one of the biggest jerks to ever play the game, and his teammates hated him, but he never did anything but his best to help the team win on the court - a true professional unlike guys like Kobe.

Wilt gets the #5 ranking IMO because he was supposedly a very selfish player, concerned most with personal glory and numbers. Still, he made the 1967 Sixers and the 72 Lakers, 2 of the top 5 teams in NBA History. In all the tape I've ever seen of him it's apparent his size was an even bigger advantage then than Shaq's is now. You can't deny the numbers though.

Shaq gets the nod at 6. His 2000 season may be the most perfect season a bigman has ever played. 28.7 points per game on 57.2% shooting. 12.7 boards. 3.7 assists. 2.76 blocks. MVP. 67 wins. NBA Championship. Finals MVP. He followed it up with the same level of performance in the 2001 Playoffs, leading the Lakers to the most dominant postseason in NBA History, humiliating every single team he faced. Injuries slowed his game from 2002 on, but he still always delivered huge in the postseason. He was the only Laker who even showed up in the 2004 Finals. As much talk as there is about his weight and the shape he's in, he's always been loved by his teammates. That tells me a lot about what kind of team guy he is.

Duncan's a close 7. He's never had the kind of season Shaq did in 2000 (although his 2002 season was spectacular under any metric), but he's one of the most consistent players in NBA history. His hands are the best I've seen on a big. He leads a break better than any bigman not named Magic. He's excellent guarding the pick and roll. He's an amazing passer (see the 2002-03 season when the Spurs would get so many easy points from basket cuts by Stephen Jackson, with perfect passes delivered through traffic from Duncan). He anchors one of the greatest defenses in NBA history. His footwork is only bettered by Olajuwon. His game 6 performance in the 2003 Finals is unheard of in playoff history. 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, 8 blocks, and he held his man to 3-23 shooting. I've never seen anything like that.

Russell's #8 because he's the best defensive player I've ever seen. I don't think there's a player in the game who's even close to the slot-blocker he'd be right now if he was in his prime. The 11 titles speak loudly too, but the Olowokandi-eque shooting percentage show he had a pretty weak offensive game. If you ever watch game tape of this guy it's pretty hard to aorgue there's ever been a better shotblocker. I've never seen anyone else with such anticipation, length, and quick feet so as to tip blocks to himself.

Oscar Robertson gets dropped to #9 because he seems to always be described as a Kobe Bryant type in the way he interacted with his teammates. Still, he won a title and his numbers have to make him top 10.

West amazes me every time I see tape of him. He may be a really sour guy, but there's not many other players in NBA history that I'd ever choose to take the last shot of a game over him.

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Olajuwon just strikes me as a little too selfish to be in the top 10. He couldn't get along at all with Sam Cassell, and forced the Rockets' hands into trading him. Watching him and Barkley fight each other for shots in the post was brutal, as was the way he pulled a Ewing-esque demand that the offense be run through him still, and he still be paid $16 million per by the Rockets in 2001 when he was done. He seemed to never get along with his guards, and he had a lot of seasons where the team just wasn't good. In fact, most of the seasons he played his team wasn't a real title contender. You can't really say that about guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, or Duncan.

[Sportcamper]

This is a great photo...At one time during Wilt Chamberlain's career in the 1960's, promoters toyed with the idea of a boxing match with heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/nba/1999/chamberlain/wilt7.jpg