My take on Patrick Mills

[ceds]

Hey all

First i'd like to sat im no nba scout by any means and I rarely post here but have been following the spurs from Australia since the mid 90 and would like to share my thoughts on Patrick Mills.

Years ago, watching Mills against CP3 and Dwill in the 2008 Olympics as a 19 year old it was clear he was a step faster then anybody on the court.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zfDNT4A8Y

Having witnessed TP's early development with the spurs i would tell anyone that listened that i hope the spurs drafted Mills because as a prospect he has the closest skill set to a young TP that i have seen to this day. A broken hand caused him to slip a little and a season ending injury the start of his rookie year ..its been a hard road for him to get to this point.

I believe the spurs have a 25 year old with TP like abilities with the opportunity to develop him over the years.

Thoughts?

[Texas_Ranger]

To me he's like Gary Neal without the clutchness and a little more energy on defense... I'd still take a backup PG that can acualy make plays before a shooter but right now he's the best the Spurs have.

[Boomersgold]

To me he's like Gary Neal without the clutchness and a little more energy on defense... I'd still take a backup PG that can acualy make plays before a shooter but right now he's the best the Spurs have.

Wait a second? Without the clutchness? Depends on how you define clutch, tbh. 18 points in the 4th against Bobcats, 16 points in the 4th vs Clippers, 15 points in the 4th against Blazers. If clutch were defined as having the ability to make shots in the 4th in a tight game, then Mills is as clutch as you can get.

[Prime Time]

To me he's like Gary Neal without the clutchness and a little more energy on defense... I'd still take a backup PG that can acualy make plays before a shooter but right now he's the best the Spurs have.
I'd say Patty's ceiling is much, much, MUCH higher than Gary's. Hell.. I'd say Patty Mills right now is better than Neal in his prime.

I feel both players are clutch but in different ways. Patty is clutch in the "I'll take over the fourth" way, Neal thrives off the last-second shot more.

[ceds]

The perimeter shooting came later....I'm guessing the he developed it and his quick release during year of Injury time in Portland.

I actually gave up on following him as i was enjoying the championship runs but i maintain that
a 19 year old Mills was a legit NBA prospect with the same rookie TP speed and moxy. What he did to CP3 and Dwill was similar to when a young Parker undressed Payton in the playoffs.
You cant teach speed and it looks like although a volume shooter he can get off (and make) a shot from anywhere.

If he stays with the spurs to develop on the TP plan he will be an all star

[SupremeGuy]

Didn't read OP but holy fuck, one bad game, and instantly ST thinks he should go play in Israel or some shit. Damn idiots, tbh. TP and Gino literally cost the team a fucking championship, and we fucking overpaid for Gino to pull a hammy every month. Pulling Miles Austin shit. :nope

[Spur Bank]

Didn't read OP but...
LOL, yeah, no kidding. Your post is complaining about the exact opposite of what people are saying in this thread. Wouldn't it have taken less time to read a little bit of the thread then it took to type out that weird response?

"I think it's terrible that people are bitching about the Spurs silver and black colors that's some Miles Austin shit whatever the fuk that means"

[Texas_Ranger]

Wait a second? Without the clutchness? Depends on how you define clutch, tbh. 18 points in the 4th against Bobcats, 16 points in the 4th vs Clippers, 15 points in the 4th against Blazers. If clutch were defined as having the ability to make shots in the 4th in a tight game, then Mills is as clutch as you can get.

Agree with that. He's a great scorer in the fourth when he's hot. I guess I was thinking more of making game-winners.

[Mikeanaro]

Patty is great, he needs to play and thats it, the problem with ST is that lots of guys are judging every player based on just one game so when he sucks he is an abomination and when he rocks he is the best ever but some guys here will tell you I COULD DO IT BETTER THAT GUY IS A SCRUB.
Patty was head to head against Lillard, last night was awful but even Lillard have that kind of performances our little aussie has lots of potential and energy he needs to play and keep getting better you wont get that by having him eating bench.
Pop is a weird one, we have Baynes and when his time has come to get some experience Errors appears without any credentials and steals the show how the hell that scrub gets the starter spot when he is clearly D-League bench material?
But then this is the genius coach who let Duncan with no ring without even having a chance to fight for it.

[weebo]

Mills needs to show more improvement on defense and a better ability to run an offense before we can start talking all-star here....

[wildbill2u]

MIlls has proved he can shoot--and he has the shooter's attitude. However, I've been impressed lately with his commitment to defense and his moving players around, giving them directions like a legitimate PG. He's worth keeping in the rotation for sure.

[Leetonidas]

Didn't read OP but holy fuck, one bad game, and instantly ST thinks he should go play in Israel or some shit. Damn idiots, tbh. TP and Gino literally cost the team a fucking championship, and we fucking overpaid for Gino to pull a hammy every month. Pulling Miles Austin shit. :nope

You should probably read the OP/thread next time, dafuq are you talking about :lol

[spurraider21]

Patty is a very good backup point guard. He's a spark plug who had some unusually hot games, but cooled down

[Sean Cagney]

I would not say he can be a TP as his ceiling is not that high IMO, but he can be a very good spark off the bench when you need scoring and yes he can develop further and become a player in this league. Eventually you are going to have to pay him though.

[SupremeGuy]

You should probably read the OP/thread next time, dafuq are you talking about :lollol I'm a funny drunk

[UZER]

lol I'm a funny drunk

"You idiot! You've captured the stunt doubles!"

or

koolaidmanfamilyguy.gif

[phxspurfan]

He's an all star caliber player...a hybrid between Isiah Thomas and Steve Nash

[Baam]

:lmao Someone pinch me, several "All star" mentions in a Mills thread I must be dreaming...

Midgets SGs don't become All stars... He's Nate Robinson without the freak atheticism and lucky enough to play in a system where he doesn't have to dribble or pass much... Playing with a 6"6 and 6"8 points in Manu and Diaw...

Lucky for Australians they may have a 6"6 PG soon in Exum so they can form a good backcourt...

[RD2191]

:lmao Someone pinch me, several "All star" mentions in a Mills thread I must be dreaming...

Midgets SGs don't become All stars... He's Nate Robinson without the freak atheticism and lucky enough to play in a system where he doesn't have to dribble or pass much... Playing with a 6"6 and 6"8 points in Manu and Diaw...

Lucky for Australians they may have a 6"6 PG soon in Exum so they can form a good backcourt...

[Spurs9]

Didn't read OP but holy fuck, one bad game, and instantly ST thinks he should go play in Israel or some shit. Damn idiots, tbh. TP and Gino literally cost the team a fucking championship, and we fucking overpaid for Gino to pull a hammy every month. Pulling Miles Austin shit. :nope
:lol

[HI-FI]

Didn't read OP but holy fuck, one bad game, and instantly ST thinks he should go play in Israel or some shit. Damn idiots, tbh. TP and Gino literally cost the team a fucking championship, and we fucking overpaid for Gino to pull a hammy every month. Pulling Miles Austin shit. :nope
:lol

i had Miles on my fantasy team so I agree, tired of the hammy shit.

[ceds]

Is anyone going to dispute the notion that Mills is currently one of if not the fastest players in the league at this moment??

All this talk about Mills being SG is simply untrue. He is a scoring point guard and can get into the paint whenever he wants. The paint finishing will come just like it did with TP over his first 3 years in the L as long as the spurs commit to developing him the same way they did with Parker.

As i said in my OP - Find me another NBA draft prospect that had the same skill set as a 19 year old Parker.
Mills is the closest you will ever find and i was saying this years ago.

After all he's been through the last few years to finally get a chance to play shows he he has the same tough mental makeup (as shown this past off season) that pop looks for. This is his first real shot and pop has already recognized that he is a guy that needs a green light and to play his own style like Manu because more often then not it will benefit the team.

At 25 its not too late for him to blossom as this is his first real opportunity to develop...the P&R and paint scoring will come in the next couple of seasons...the outside shooting is whats the surprise and only makes him that much more deadly.


The spurs get the international guys who are the clear cut star player on their respective international teams.( TP, Manu, Mills). They know they belong and are not impressed by playing in the NBA.

I wanted to post this when we first signed him but tbh i thought he'd never get a decent crack until the TD era was over. Like i said im no scout but i know ball and i know elite offensive skills when i see them and Mills has two with the perfect prototype to follow.

All those laughing at all star caliber....wait and see

[Baam]

He can faster than Usain Bolt, you only go as fast as the ball... The limiting factor is not his speed it's his handles...

[Boomersgold]

Is anyone going to dispute the notion that Mills is currently one of if not the fastest players in the league at this moment??

All this talk about Mills being SG is simply untrue. He is a scoring point guard and can get into the paint whenever he wants. The paint finishing will come just like it did with TP over his first 3 years in the L as long as the spurs commit to developing him the same way they did with Parker.

As i said in my OP - Find me another NBA draft prospect that had the same skill set as a 19 year old Parker.
Mills is the closest you will ever find and i was saying this years ago.

After all he's been through the last few years to finally get a chance to play shows he he has the same tough mental makeup (as shown this past off season) that pop looks for. This is his first real shot and pop has already recognized that he is a guy that needs a green light and to play his own style like Manu because more often then not it will benefit the team.


I completely disagree with Patty having the same skill set as a young Parker. Parker's always been a paint scorer, he didn't develop his mid range game until a few years into his NBA career. Mills, on the other hand, struggled to get in the lane in his first 3 years of the NBA, and prefers using his mid-range and three point game to score points.

[ceds]

Boomersgold.

im talking about as a Draft Prospect not whats happening now...to me Mills is basically a rookie.

Yes while mills has become a great shooter during that off time off. My point is that as a 19 year old he was a distinct disadvantage to what Parker was with SA. Not only due to the injuries Mills had but also the circumstances since we had no choice but to fast track TP because of AD. I would have loved to see Mills in that situation.

For those that have watched from the beginning TP in his rookie year couldn't finish well at all.
His elite skill was his speed and ability to get into the paint whenever he chose but he usually passed it out. The second year came the tear drop and then he was around a 17pt scorer the following couple? years. He didn't truly master finishing in the pain until 5 or 6 seasons in...to his credit he also got a mid range game and reconstructed shot during that time also.

Look...Parker imo finishes in the paint better then iverson. Patty getting there is asking allot
The one thing all these guys had is that they were the fastest players in the game and were fearless.
The paint scoring will come...and he IS a scoring point guard, not a SG....3 years in a spurs system and Mills is one of the best points in the league.

[Em-City]

These australian homers are getting ridiculous

[ceds]

what are you talking about...he can get where ever he wants on the court and only needs a second to get a shot off.
Its his finishing that needs to come..

Its a long way off...only these past few games he's getting double screens outside the 3 and the odd p&r.
It shows that we are staring to trust him...this is a few years away but assume he can finish in the paint at a 45% clip.
Its enough to justify the 3 or 4 around the world screens TP gets on the regular

[ceds]

Mills being a 22 & 6 pg within 3 years if he plays 35 mpg is a ridiculous notion?

[RD2191]

These australian homers are getting ridiculous

[Em-City]

Mills being a 22 & 6 pg within 3 years if he plays 35 mpg is a ridiculous notion?

yes, and on top of that. Mills playing 35 mins a game is a ridiculous notion. get your shit together.

[DMC]

Patty Mills doesn't have any hidden talent. He cannot attack the rim off the dribble and doesn't have anything close to TP's finishing ability. He's a jump shooter pure and simple. Outside of his scoring ability and his energy, he's nothing at all like a young TP (except his bench time). However he's also nothing like Gary Neal.

Patty can score the ball, that much we know. Running the point requires more though and even though he is scoring, he's not generating points through ball distribution. If he plays the point for 30 minutes, he's getting one or two assists. That's not PG play. He's got other options.

The Spurs don't need to live and die by his shooting percentage, so unless he can get others involved, he'll never be a viable alternative to a real PG. As much as Tony goes hero ball, he still gets his assists and he attacks the rim relentlessly when he's healthy. We don't need another shoot first PG. Maybe if the Spurs get Patty involved on some of the pick and roll plays with someone other than Baynes or Errors, he'd have assists, but his assist numbers right now aren't flattering for a PG.

[DMC]

Mills being a 22 & 6 pg within 3 years if he plays 35 mpg is a ridiculous notion?

If he was averaging 7 or 8 assists per game then sure. Right now, no. Unless he wants to play 2 guard, which he's too small to play at the defensive end, then he cannot take Tony's minutes except when Tony is injured.

[ceds]

These boards were saying the same thing years ago...

Laughing about Manu being a Euro Kobe
AK47 being a legit player
Tinsley > Parker

So much is about circumstance and opportunity.
Jeremy Lin doesn't even have an elite NBA skills and look what he did when given the shot.

Mills shooting isn't what impresses me the most. Its his end to end speed and fearlessness

All that's stopping him right now is his p&r play...speed cant be taught, handles and change of pace can.

I know that im against the majority of the board here but ive have been watching Mills since a 16 year old. I'm basing this prediction purely on his physical talent speed and the fact that this season is his "true" rookie year and opportunity to showcase.

[weeks]

I'm not convinced good handles can be taught. With patty, I think he's reached his potential and is now over achieving a bit

[Ice009]

These boards were saying the same thing years ago...

Laughing about Manu being a Euro Kobe
AK47 being a legit player
Tinsley > Parker

So much is about circumstance and opportunity.
Jeremy Lin doesn't even have an elite NBA skills and look what he did when given the shot.

Mills shooting isn't what impresses me the most. Its his end to end speed and fearlessness

All that's stopping him right now is his p&r play...speed cant be taught, handles and change of pace can.

I know that im against the majority of the board here but ive have been watching Mills since a 16 year old. I'm basing this prediction purely on his physical talent speed and the fact that this season is his "true" rookie year and opportunity to showcase.

It's pretty hard to teach someone elite ball handling at the NBA level. I don't think you realize this. How many players are in the NBA that would be better if they improve their handles? Shitloads. How many of them have actually done it? Not many. Pretty much anyone that is a good ball handler, already was one before they came to the NBA. I think it's something you need to learn at an earlier age for it to become second nature. He's always had the speed, but he's never had the handles to use it fully on the NBA level.

[ceds]

Anyone remember a young Beno trying to get past half court?
Its not even handles because Mills can break a press and intense pressure with little trouble... Its more p&r play but anyway..

Perfect example of a recent NBA player developing handles esp on the p&r

Paul George in one season improved his handles a mile
We were all hoping for Kawai and it will no doubt get better over the next couple season - same with Mills
Ross from the Raptors is in the same boat

[Ice009]

Anyone remember a young Beno trying to get past half court?
Its not even handles because Mills can break a press and intense pressure with little trouble... Its more p&r play but anyway..

Perfect example of a recent NBA player developing handles esp on the p&r

Paul George in one season improved his handles a mile
We were all hoping for Kawai and it will no doubt get better over the next couple season - same with Mills
Ross from the Raptors is in the same boat

You have a couple of good examples, but if you read what I said, I said there is WAY more players who haven't been able to do it.

Patrick's speed is incredible, but his ball handling is nowhere near Tony Parker's, which really hurts his game IMO. Tony Parker could get to the rack at a will when he was much younger than Patrick, but he couldn't finish from the get go, well, not like he can now, so I guess TP did improve his finishing ability greatly. I hardly ever see Patrick even attempt to get to the rim as he either pulls up for a jumper or gets in trouble with his ball handling well before then. Even if he does improve his ball handling, we might then find out that he is a crap finisher. lol. We don't even know what his finishing ability is like, because he never gets to the rim.

Anyway, I'm not saying Patrick can't do it. I'm just saying that it's not a given that he will get anywhere near Parker's level with his ball handling or finishing ability. He could do it, but I don't think it's as easy as you're making it out to be. It's going to have to be a lot of hard work on Patrick's part.

[ceds]

I can agree with that although i think its much easier for a lighting pg then a 6'8 SF to improve p&r play.
i was saying before i rate TP a better paint finisher then even Iverson. So for Mills to get on that HOF finishing level isnt something i'd wager on.

What i dont agree with is the idea that Patty cant get to the rim whenever he wants and that he is a SG in the pg body. Just like you said a rookie TP (with a green light to attack ) could get to the rack at will. Mills is cut from the same cloth, watch any of his Int play against pro players as a kid as a teenager and you will see the comparison.

Im speaking from strictly a prospect perspective because for me injuries in st mary's and his rookie season + weight gain delayed his progress. He was buried on that deep Por team. Theres an old article stating they still kept him after the 18 months off solely due to the speed and ability he showed to get into the rim a step ahead of everyone.
This is his real rookie year and he is starting to get the trust from pop to occasionally run some offense .

The recent Portland game was the first time he had regular picks to get to the rim and while i dont have the stats on me he hit his fair share of floaters and scoop shots.

Devin Harris had that same type of speed and although he had a very short shelf life his handles were on par if not worse then current Mills. I honestly cant think of another prospect with the same skill set.


Anyway im just glad to have the discussion...you guys think im crazy here but dont be suprised when he's starting for another team putting up 22 and 6-7 in 2 or 3 years time just like a TP. Just hope its with the spurs because i know he will get the right development there

[MI21]

Mills being a 22 & 6 pg within 3 years if he plays 35 mpg is a ridiculous notion?

Am Australian, have followed Patty for some time and yes, that is a ridiculous notion.

[ceds]

MI21

Give me your ceiling on Mills stats as a starter playing 35 mins in his prime (3 years from now)

Its clear he can average 20 in this league with minutes right now.

Its not ridiculous at all

[Ice009]

MI21

Give me your ceiling on Mills stats as a starter playing 35 mins in his prime (3 years from now)

Its clear he can average 20 in this league with minutes right now.

Its not ridiculous at all

I don't think you're taking into account that NBA defenses can take players out when they are geared towards shutting someone down. Unless you're a superstar level player, defenses can really take you out of your game when they focus in on you. I don't think anyone has yet to make Patrick a priority to shut down.

[ceds]

Ice you are one of tyhe few ppl who's takes i read on this board and i can see where your coming from

Jermery Lin and that seattle player (flip murray maybe?) are the two most recent examples of pg's that broke out with an extended hot streak and then came back to reality once defenses adjusted.

This year we have two - reggie Jackson and P Mills. The difference between these guys and the former is they have above average athleticsm and in Mills case Top 5 speed and lat quickness. ...while i think defenses will adjust and stats will drop its then up the player to develop counters.

This is a prediction ok.

ive seen plenty of fucked up takes on this board with little to no substance on this board from the "vets" so go easy.

[Mikeanaro]

Ice you are one of tyhe few ppl who's takes i read on this board and i can see where your coming from

Jermery Lin and that seattle player (flip murray maybe?) are the two most recent examples of pg's that broke out with an extended hot streak and then came back to reality once defenses adjusted.

This year we have two - reggie Jackson and P Mills. The difference between these guys and the former is they have above average athleticsm and in Mills case Top 5 speed and lat quickness. ...while i think defenses will adjust and stats will drop its then up the player to develop counters.

This is a prediction ok.

ive seen plenty of fucked up takes on this board with little to no substance on this board from the "vets" so go easy.
Agree, some ¨vets¨ are afraid Patty improves to the point TP will be replaced... If new players are improving is good for our team, I don´t care if Beli improves to the point Manu plays 2 minutes per game, or if the next year Spurs acquire a supertalented PF who makes Tim play 15 minutes.
So if the Millster fucks one game he never was that good but if Parker plays the whole season like shit hey...anybody can have a bad night right?
¨He was helping little children from Congo and got a little nervous and thats why he is not playing great so leave Tony alone... besides that Mills was lucky he is short and he will never make it¨(vet take)

[TJastal]

MI21

Give me your ceiling on Mills stats as a starter playing 35 mins in his prime (3 years from now)

Its clear he can average 20 in this league with minutes right now.

Its not ridiculous at all

Mills is regularily pouring in 20 point games in 20-25 minutes. I guess some posters here need to retake basic math.

:lol

[spurraider21]

Patty is an upgrade to Gary Neal in our second unit. The reason being that Neal would play "point guard" even though it was Manu that was truly orchestrating the 2nd unit. Neal was basically a 2-gaurd on offense who was defending PG's on defense, and he was an atrocious defender. Mills would be best in a similar offensive role to Neal (with Manu and now Marco helping making things happen), and he is much more adept at defending point guards than Neal was.

He's also better at attacking the basket than Neal was

[superjames1992]

He's an all star caliber player...a hybrid between Isiah Thomas and Steve Nash
:lol

[Skoobz]

These australian homers are getting ridiculous

Easy up!

We Aussies are proud about how well Pattys done, but we're not all blowing him.

[Boomersgold]

Am Australian, have followed Patty for some time and yes, that is a ridiculous notion.
Don't see how it's a ridiculous notion at all. In fact, if Patty played 35 mpg on a bad team, 22 ppg would be a bit low. I'd expect averages of 24 and 5 on a bad team like the Bucks this season, and 20 and 5 as the starting point guard of championship contending team like the Spurs.

[FkLA]

Being as fast (or close to) as Parker and living in the paint like Parker are two completely different things. Handles, footwork, athleticism, absorbing contact, finishing--all things Parker clearly does better than Patty.

[Boomersgold]

Being as fast (or close to) as Parker and living in the paint like Parker are two completely different things. Handles, footwork, athleticism, absorbing contact, finishing--all things Parker clearly does better than Patty.
But shooting is something that Patty does much better than Parker. I don't see any point in comparing the two players. They're different players who have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't expect Mills to ever be as good as Parker at finishing at the rim, and I don't see Parker improving his three point shooting to the point where he'll be a consistent threat at the three point line (like Patty is). It is what it is.

...And Mills is much quicker than Parker was/is.

[jkid12456]

But shooting is something that Patty does much better than Parker. I don't know see any point in comparing the two players. They're different players who have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't expect Mills to ever be as good as Parker at finishing at the rim, and I don't see Parker improving his three point shooting to the point where he'll be a consistent threat at the three point line (like Patty is). It is what it is.

...And Mills is much quicker than Parker was/is.

[benfti]

Am Australian, have followed Patty for some time and yes, that is a ridiculous notion.

indeed, the points average is far to low.

[benfti]

TP gets to the rack far more than Patty does in the same ratio that Patty is a better range shooter than TP.

Point being they are different players.

would Patty with post moves be better than Duncan? a question equally worth investigating.

[Baam]

TP gets to the rack far more than Patty does in the same ratio that Patty is a better range shooter than TP.

Point being they are different players.

would Patty with post moves be better than Duncan? a question equally worth investigating.


Actually TP has great post moves for a PG, post game is equally important as passing imo to determine the BBiQ of a player...

Look at the great SGs : Kobe, Manu, Harden, Stephenson and the likes are way better point guards than Patty...

Anyway there's a step between scrubs backup PG and All-Star, it's called starting PG, something Mills may never be...

[Baam]

But shooting is something that Patty does much better than Parker. I don't know see any point in comparing the two players. They're different players who have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't expect Mills to ever be as good as Parker at finishing at the rim, and I don't see Parker improving his three point shooting to the point where he'll be a consistent threat at the three point line (like Patty is). It is what it is.

...And Mills is much quicker than Parker was/is.

Not with the ball.

[Ice009]

Not sure that Mills has ever been faster than a young Parker with the ball. I only count speed with the ball. Don't care how fast you are without it, that metric doesn't matter much in the NBA or most basketball leagues.

Edit : I meant on offense when referring to PGs and comparing speed.

[Mikeanaro]

Not sure that Mills has ever been faster than a young Parker with the ball. I only count speed with the ball. Don't care how fast you are without it, that metric doesn't matter much in the NBA or most basketball leagues.
Of course it matters if you are running like a madman to block a guy from behind or to protect your zone you must be quick, defense is always a physical thing... even to switch your position to receive the ball you should count speed without the ball, Patty is faster than Tony even the young version.

[Ice009]

Of course it matters if you are running like a madman to block a guy from behind or to protect your zone you must be quick, defense is always a physical thing... even to switch your position to receive the ball you should count speed without the ball, Patty is faster than Tony even the young version.

I was talking on offense, didn't say anything about speed on the defensive end. Also, we're having a discussion about speedy players (PGs in particular) and when I think of speed on the NBA court, I think of a PG with the ball in his hands. You could run a 10 flat in the 100m, but you could still not be considered quick on the court. We're strictly talking PGs here, and I simply don't measure their speed or care about how fast they are without the ball in their hands. IMO, Tony is faster with the ball in his hands, maybe not now, but I think he was - partially due to his superior handles.

[Boomersgold]

I was talking on offense, didn't say anything about speed on the defensive end. Also, we're having a discussion about speedy players (PGs in particular) and when I think of speed on the NBA court, I think of a PG with the ball in his hands. You could run a 10 flat in the 100m, but you could still not be considered quick on the court. We're strictly talking PGs here, and I simply don't measure their speed or care about how fast they are without the ball in their hands. IMO, Tony is faster with the ball in his hands, maybe not now, but I think he was - partially due to his superior handles.

What about off-the-ball movement? Running off of screens to get open for the shot? Cuts to the basket for layups? Leading the fast break? Like I said earlier, Mills doesn't play like TP. Whilst Tony likes to get in the lane by himself for the deuce, Mills will often utilize his speed to get open for jumpers (off the ball movement). Point is, speed can be used in a multitude of ways. You don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court.

Plus, I don't think it's his ball handling that limits his 'speed', or how fast he dribbles the ball. Imo, it's got more to do with Pop wanting the game to be slowed down and played in his system.

EDIT: Found a clip of Mills at his fastest. He outruns everyone on team USA for an easy coast-to-coast layup (See 1min 27sec). I don't remember seeing TP this fast in his rookie year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zfDNT4A8Y#t=01m27s

[Ice009]

What about off-the-ball movement? Running off of screens to get open for the shot? Cuts to the basket for layups? Leading the fast break? Like I said earlier, Mills doesn't play like TP. Whilst Tony likes to get in the lane by himself for the deuce, Mills will often utilize his speed to get open for jumpers (off the ball movement). Point is, speed can be used in a multitude of ways. You don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court.

Plus, I don't think it's his ball handling that limits his 'speed', or how fast he dribbles the ball. Imo, it's got more to do with Pop wanting the game to be slowed down and played in his system.

EDIT: Found a clip of Mills at his fastest. He outruns every one on team USA for an easy coast-to-coast layup (See 1min 27sec). I don't remember seeing TP this fast in his rookie year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zfDNT4A8Y#t=01m27s

PGs are supposed to have the ball in THEIR hands for a lot of the time. Again, that is why I look at their speed with the ball in their hands. Sure, their off the ball speed can help too, but a PG is supposed to have the ball in their hands. I want my PG to be able to create for others, and if they are covered then create for himself. I want him breaking down defenses and getting to the rim where he can either pass it off, score for himself or even draw the foul. Mills can't do any of that, not that I have seen anyway. The fact that you're talking about off the ball movement, you're basically saying that he's a SG and not a PG, which is what most people here on Spurstalk are telling you guys.

No, you don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court, but if you're a PG and you're a crap dribbler, then I don't think you could be as effective with the speed you've been given.

I watched the clip and he blew past Deron Williams from the looks of it. Deron isn't known for his speed.

[Boomersgold]

PGs are supposed to have the ball in THEIR hands for a lot of the time. Again, that is why I look at their speed with the ball in their hands. Sure, their off the ball speed can help too, but a PG is supposed to have the ball in their hands. I want my PG to be able to create for others, and if they are covered then create for himself. I want him breaking down defenses and getting to the rim where he can either pass it off, score for himself or even draw the foul. Mills can't do any of that, not that I have seen anyway. The fact that you're talking about off the ball movement, you're basically saying that he's a SG and not a PG, which is what most people here on Spurstalk are telling you guys.

No, you don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court, but if you're a PG and you're a crap dribbler, then I don't think you could be as effective with the speed you've been given.

I watched the clip and he blew past Deron Williams from the looks of it. Deron isn't known for his speed.

Yep, not disagreeing that Mills is a score-first point guard. Guess that's why the Spurs have Manu and Bellineli as the playmakers. Mills is still young though, so there's plenty of time to learn.

[Cry Havoc]

A couple of points.

1) I don't understand the people ripping Jeremy Lin in this thread. You guys are saying he "came back To Earth" ? Really? He went from being one of the last guys in the LEAGUE off the bench, literally worse than Nando or Beno, to starting for the Knicks, to signing and seeing starts and big minutes for one of the best teams in the league this year. That is not coming back to Earth, he drastically increased his value and a lot of teams would love to have him on their squad now. No one thought he was going to be an NBA first team player even when he was lighting up for the Knicks.

2) Mills is not TP. However that doesn't mean he can't be a significant contributor to this team. It's a little strange that so many people are critical of him because he doesn't have Tony's handles or finishing ability. Well, no shit, Parker is a perennial all-star candidate and former serious MVP vote-getter. You aren't going to get that off the bench, even Manu as good as he was never made the top 3 in MVP talks. Pop himself said that Patty has worked his ass off and gotten a lot better in the off season, so that's a pretty telling indicator of where the Spurs think he is as a player. We all know how difficult it is to earn minutes on this team, so the fact that Mills has consistently been doing that is a BIG deal. Pop doesn't give consistent minutes to guys who were 14th in the rotation unless something changed, or the player dyed his hair a certain shade of crimson.

3) I'd also like to address the idea that Mills needs to be a ball dominating point guard to succeed in our system. That's kind of interesting, considering a LONG standing critique of Parker on this forum is that he hangs on to the ball too much. Now all of a sudden that's being listed as a virtue? Bizarre. The Spurs run a very different offense from most teams, especially off the bench. Mills doesn't need to have the ball for 17 seconds of every possession to be an asset and a scoring threat. The big question is can he get the ball across half court against lock down playoff defenses and still be a 6-10 ppg guy there with occasional bursts of 15+. If he can, he'll be the best backup we've had at the 1 in YEARS, regardless of anything else. It's not like the other guys we've had coming in for Tony have ever been adequate defensively, so before anyone goes there, just tell me how many have shown real game other than Mills in the past 8+ years in San Antonio in this role. I'm betting it's less than 3 if you discount TJ.

Lastly, anyone who thinks going out and scoring 30+ against bad NBA teams is easy, something that any bench player can do... Keep in mind that the WORST NBA players are better than almost ANY college player, even the lotto picks. Nando would make any college team in the country his bitch. Most of the highly touted can't miss players bust out, especially if you take away the top 3 picks in any draft. The worst NBA team is full of guys who are more athletic than 99.99% of people you will ever meet. Doing what Patty has done could be a short term hot streak but it isn't less impressive just because he went off against sub 500. Again show me a backup aside from Manu (who's obviously a special case) who has even been CLOSE to that in San Antonio before you rip Mills down. At worst, he's got potential, and that's a damn sight more than I can say about the backup point position in a LOOOOONG time. Unless you guys want to go back to the days of Manu running point when Parker sits?

[Mel_13]

A couple of points.

1) I don't understand the people ripping Jeremy Lin in this thread. You guys are saying he "came back To Earth" ? Really? He went from being one of the last guys in the LEAGUE off the bench, literally worse than Nando or Beno, to starting for the Knicks, to signing and seeing starts and big minutes for one of the best teams in the league this year. That is not coming back to Earth, he drastically increased his value and a lot of teams would love to have him on their squad now. No one thought he was going to be an NBA first team player even when he was lighting up for the Knicks.

2) Mills is not TP. However that doesn't mean he can't be a significant contributor to this team. It's a little strange that so many people are critical of him because he doesn't have Tony's handles or finishing ability. Well, no shit, Parker is a perennial all-star candidate and former serious MVP vote-getter. You aren't going to get that off the bench, even Manu as good as he was never made the top 3 in MVP talks. Pop himself said that Patty has worked his ass off and gotten a lot better in the off season, so that's a pretty telling indicator of where the Spurs think he is as a player. We all know how difficult it is to earn minutes on this team, so the fact that Mills has consistently been doing that is a BIG deal. Pop doesn't give consistent minutes to guys who were 14th in the rotation unless something changed, or the player dyed his hair a certain shade of crimson.

3) I'd also like to address the idea that Mills needs to be a ball dominating point guard to succeed in our system. That's kind of interesting, considering a LONG standing critique of Parker on this forum is that he hangs on to the ball too much. Now all of a sudden that's being listed as a virtue? Bizarre. The Spurs run a very different offense from most teams, especially off the bench. Mills doesn't need to have the ball for 17 seconds of every possession to be an asset and a scoring threat. The big question is can he get the ball across half court against lock down playoff defenses and still be a 6-10 ppg guy there with occasional bursts of 15+. If he can, he'll be the best backup we've had at the 1 in YEARS, regardless of anything else. It's not like the other guys we've had coming in for Tony have ever been adequate defensively, so before anyone goes there, just tell me how many have shown real game other than Mills in the past 8+ years in San Antonio in this role. I'm betting it's less than 3 if you discount TJ.

Lastly, anyone who thinks going out and scoring 30+ against bad NBA teams is easy, something that any bench player can do... Keep in mind that the WORST NBA players are better than almost ANY college player, even the lotto picks. Nando would make any college team in the country his bitch. Most of the highly touted can't miss players bust out, especially if you take away the top 3 picks in any draft. The worst NBA team is full of guys who are more athletic than 99.99% of people you will ever meet. Doing what Patty has done could be a short term hot streak but it isn't less impressive just because he went off against sub 500. Again show me a backup aside from Manu (who's obviously a special case) who has even been CLOSE to that in San Antonio before you rip Mills down. At worst, he's got potential, and that's a damn sight more than I can say about the backup point position in a LOOOOONG time. Unless you guys want to go back to the days of Manu running point when Parker sits?

:clap

[benfti]

:clap:toast

[spurraider21]

are we seriously arguing patty vs parker :lol

[ceds]

That was a young Jazz WCF version of DWill with good NBA speed, not the fat player he is now for Brooklyn.
He also did the same to CP3 and forced team USA to abandon a press as a 19 year old.

baseline to baseline speed. and yes (with the ball) Mills is at the top of the league.

How can you not see any similarity in Mills game as a 19 yr old prospect that you do in TP?

[Mel_13]

How can you not see any similarity in Mills game as a 19 yr old prospect that you do in TP?

Why does it bother you so much that others don't share your view?

[hater]

How can you not see any similarity in Mills game as a 19 yr old prospect that you do in TP?

totally different players. TP couldn't hit a shot to save his life, Fatty is dead eye open shooter and his entire game revolves around that

[superjames1992]

LOL at comparing Patty and TP. There really aren't any similarities.

[ceds]

It doesn't. Im not trying to make a Patty Vs TP thread

What im saying that is that they both shared the same physical talent as 19 year old draft prospects.