Over the last month, Kevin Love

[Spur|n|Austin]

is averaging more points/game than Kevin Durant, more boards than Dwight Howard & more 3’s than Kyle Korver..

[HarlemHeat37]

Beast, tbh, top 5 player in the league..

[Double-Up]

But...they still suck.

[Double-Up]

Beast, tbh, top 5 player in the league..

No, he isn't.

[HarlemHeat37]

No, he isn't.

3rd to like 10th in the league is a toss-up these days, Love has as good or better of an argument as any of those other niggas, tbh..

[spurraider21]

defense is 50% of the game. let me clarify it again. FIFTY percent. its like when they played Utah and he went off for 37 but Kanter, matched up directly against him, went 11-14 for 25 points.

[HarlemHeat37]

His on/off metrics are elite, his "lack of defense" doesn't seem to affect anything:lol..

His competition from 3-10: Dirk(can't defend at this age), Curry(poor defender), Harden(poor defender), Griffin(below average), Melo(no defense), Aldridge(average), Cousins(below average), Parker(poor defender)..

Only Howard, Duncan, Davis and George are notable defenders in this range, tbh..

[spurraider21]

it seems to affect the output of his counterparts on opposing teams. i'm not going to sit here with a straight face and tell you he isn't a great player or a net positive for his team, but i think he needs to make improvements to become a "top 5" guy

[DeadlyDynasty]

Sucks we have to wait a year and half to get him, tbh...but it's for the best.

[HarlemHeat37]

Not really, his individual opponents have average overall production against him this season, and Minnesota's defense is better when he's on the floor..

Love's defense isn't any worse than most stars in the NBA, tbh..

[Killakobe81]

good player. All -star. Bruin. But if he is your best player you aint winning a "chip".
heck, you cant even make playoffs ...
Needs to be a #2 but he will command #1 money ...

[spurraider21]

He's a center (has been playing center with Pek out) who gives up a FG% north of 64% within 5 feet, which is among the worst in the league and is a figure that is mostly seen by guards. for comparison's sake, Duncan gives up 56, Splitter, 54

Love is very boozer-esque defensively. with his elite offensive skill set, it would be nice to see him become a two way player. there are also numerous clips that have been posted where he blatantly refuses to even contest a shot and instead just boxes out the shooter so he can secure a rebound. he also bitches and moans about his teammates, etc. he'd be perfect on the lakers

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Love is a C?..what the fuck?..

That's some intense cherry-picking you just did, tbh..random stat + choosing a position in which he's only played 15% of his minutes this season, primarily due to Pekovic's absence..

Love's PF counterparts put up statistically average production against him, and Minnesota's defense is a net positive when he's on the floor..his overall on/off metrics have been among the best in the NBA the past few years, including this season, so his "lack of defense" clearly hasn't hurt his team..

I'm not arguing that he's a good defender, he obviously isn't, but his defense isn't any worse than most stars, which is proven by any defensive metric..

[Killakobe81]

He's a center (has been playing center with Pek out) who gives up a FG% north of 64% within 5 feet, which is among the worst in the league and is a figure that is mostly seen by guards. for comparison's sake, Duncan gives up 56, Splitter, 54

Love is very boozer-esque defensively. with his elite offensive skill set, it would be nice to see him become a two way player. there are also numerous clips that have been posted where he blatantly refuses to even contest a shot and instead just boxes out the shooter so he can secure a rebound. he also bitches and moans about his teammates, etc. he'd be perfect on the lakers

Shots fired, LOL
It's one of the things Rodman started to do in his Bulls days which is why I think the Bulls version of Dennis who was an even greater rebounder than the Pistons one is overrated and inferior to his Detroit days.

[JohnnyMax]

Empty Stats

[Killakobe81]

that being said ^ I would love, Love on the Lakers ... but just like with Dwight, Melo not at max money.
He is a elite rebounder.
A above average range shooter.
Decent post scorer
Solid mid range game
Best full court passer in the league maybe only Lebron is close ...

[Killakobe81]

I just dont belive in paying max money for non super-duper-stars in the new CBA.
I doubt you can win a title that way.

[HarlemHeat37]

Love's defensive metrics grade his career as a below average defender, so far..

Boozer's metrics grade him as one of the worst defensive bigs of this generation, tbh..

I don't buy the comparison, blind hate IMO..

[HarlemHeat37]

that being said ^ I would love, Love on the Lakers ... but just like with Dwight, Melo not at max money.
He is a elite rebounder.
A above average range shooter.
Decent post scorer
Solid mid range game
Best full court passer in the league maybe only Lebron is close ...

There are only 2 stars in today's league that can carry a team to a title, tbh..Lebron and Durant..

Love needs to be in a 1a/1b situation, but that isn't any different than any other star in the league outside of Lebron and Durant, tbh..

Houston can win because they have 2 top 10 players, so do the Clippers..neither of those teams could win if Harden or Paul were in a clear "Best player vs. 2nd best" situation, but they can win now because they're in a "1a-1b" situation with Howard and Griffin(Blake has looked like the best player on the Clipps, all season)..

[Clipper Nation]

Empty Stats

[spurraider21]

I have no hate for Kevin Love. i'm generally predisposed to liking UCLA players outside of Westbrook (and thats mostly because of the team he plays for). i have already called love an elite talent offensively. the spurs saw it firsthand this year.

but Boozer has always had an elite defensive rating on the bulls :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't use defensive rating, it's a terrible stat, tbh..

[spurraider21]

i'm well aware that a 90 second video isn't indicative of how a guy plays at all times, but this video should not exist for a "top 5 player in the league"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NwjMP7ydU

[spurraider21]

^a couple of those were solid shots on good defense, to be fair. but most were just laughable effort

[HarlemHeat37]

Ok, so who are your 3/4/5 in the league?..

[spurraider21]

you yourself have said Anthony Davis is the best big in the league (or at least has been this year), as have I, so I'd have him above Kevin Love. I'd also take Paul George and C3P0 over Love. Not sure if those guys are by 3, 4, 5 specifically, but those are the first 3 that come to mind that I already have above Love

[Killakobe81]

There are only 2 stars in today's league that can carry a team to a title, tbh..Lebron and Durant..

Love needs to be in a 1a/1b situation, but that isn't any different than any other star in the league outside of Lebron and Durant, tbh..

Houston can win because they have 2 top 10 players, so do the Clippers..neither of those teams could win if Harden or Paul were in a clear "Best player vs. 2nd best" situation, but they can win now because they're in a "1a-1b" situation with Howard and Griffin(Blake has looked like the best player on the Clipps, all season)..

Should of stopped at the bolded. With Blake's emergence I have become more bullish on them as a darkhorse threat. I thought they were a Western favorite but early on they looked iffy. Paul got hurt and Blake stepped up two levels. Paul is not 100% So I think they are dtill iffy but I think with doc and those two they may have the best chance outside of OKC and SA of making the Finals and making the Heat work for their 3 peat.

Houston would get crushed by the Heat. Not only do the rox lack anyone (i love Parsons but what mismatch) to do anything except annoy Lebron, I dont even think their best player can stop/match Wade at 85%. And my guess is Wade would take that matchup personally. Howard would beast in stretches, but there is no way in hell they Beat Miami, Indy would be a much better matchup but I doubt they can get past MIA.

[Sportstudi]

I don't use defensive rating, it's a terrible stat, tbh..

What do you prefer then? Defensive win shares if we talk about stats and metrics?

[Killakobe81]

Defensive stats are horsehit tbh ...
As someone else pointed out Boozer has solid ones and his own coaches knows he sucks on defense.

[Sportstudi]

Defensive stats are horsehit tbh ...
As someone else pointed out Boozer has solid ones and his own coaches knows he sucks on defense.

True. Boozer couldn't defend a granny in a wheelchair tbh.

[Spur-Addict]

:rollin Kevin Love

[Mori Chu]

Bookmark this, bump it, quote it. Kevin Love is going to play on the Suns, sons. And he's going to be really damn good. The Kevin Love haters are hilarious. Calling him a loser who doesn't play D. Well, his D isn't perfect, but he gets a s*!t load of rebounds; I'll take it. And his offense is insane and has grown only more versatile. Saying he can't win? Fine, he can't single-handedly carry a horrible Wolves team/organization to the playoffs. But KG couldn't either, and once he got the hell out of that hole, he got a ring. Love is going to bring the Suns their first LOB trophy. Mark it, book it. Suns have the assets to get him and the cachet/org to make him stay. He won't go to a sinking ship like the Lakers tank hell hole.

[Sportstudi]

Bookmark this, bump it, quote it. Kevin Love is going to play on the Suns, sons. And he's going to be really damn good. The Kevin Love haters are hilarious. Calling him a loser who doesn't play D. Well, his D isn't perfect, but he gets a s*!t load of rebounds; I'll take it. And his offense is insane and has grown only more versatile. Saying he can't win? Fine, he can't single-handedly carry a horrible Wolves team/organization to the playoffs. But KG couldn't either, and once he got the hell out of that hole, he got a ring. Love is going to bring the Suns their first LOB trophy. Mark it, book it. Suns have the assets to get him and the cachet/org to make him stay. He won't go to a sinking ship like the Lakers tank hell hole.

Getting rebounds doesn't mean you're a good defender. Barkley was a monster on the boards, yet by his own admission he was a shitty defender.

[Spur-Addict]

LOL Comparing Love to KG.

[unforeseen]

is averaging more points/game than Kevin Durant, more boards than Dwight Howard & more 3’s than Kyle Korver..

But how many more wins?

[CitizenDwayne]

Still confused as to how people still find ways to write Love off. He's just that damn good; not a great defender, sure, but he's a top 3 scorer in the league and his rebounding numbers are just freakish.

[spurraider21]

for the record, i give him all the credit is he is due, i called him an incredible/elite offensive talent. i'm just not going to turn a blind eye to his defense, which to me is a big part of being a truly elite player. its also why i'm not a big fan of Melo

[HarlemHeat37]

What do you prefer then? Defensive win shares if we talk about stats and metrics?

Not really a fan of Win Shares either, tbh..

I use RAPM, Synergy numbers and +/- numbers for that player in his team's 3 to 5-man units..

[HarlemHeat37]

I have soured a little on George and Davis, tbh..

Davis's offensive impact is not great, although I give him the benefit of the doubt, since he plays with poor teammates and arguably the worst coach in the NBA..

George's offense is erratic, but ya, I'd agree he's probably better than Love..

[Clipper Nation]

Blake has averaged 30 and 10 for the past month on a winning team, while missing key players all month long, and yet people still hype up Love's losing stats :lol

[Phillip]

Still don't see him creating much offense for himself.

Karl Malone with a 3 point shot IMO.

[DMC]

is averaging more points/game than Kevin Durant, more boards than Dwight Howard & more 3’s than Kyle Korver..

And more wins than Kobe Bryant.

[jimbo]

What do you prefer then? Defensive win shares if we talk about stats and metrics?

Defensive win shares are essentially defensive rating. Or rather they have a really high correlation because DWS uses rating in it's calculation.

If you read up on how defensive rating is calculated, it's pretty much garbage. It's best use is letting you know who the best defenders (or rather "possession stoppers") are on the best team defensive teams. If you stuck Love on the Spurs in place of Boris, I could guarantee you he'd be putting up a ridiculous defensive rating in addition to taking away defensive rating from Duncan. He'd gobble up too many defensive rebounds which count as a "possession stop" in defensive rating.

Just for comparison's sake, last I checked Bogut had one of the best defensive ratings in the league. It's a little more complicated, but he puts up roughly 10.3 "possession stops" a game. (Counting his defensive rebounds, blocks and steals.) Kevin Love puts up 11.2. (10 of those being defensive rebounds) You throw Love on Golden State and his defensive rating would skyrocket.

Tbh, unless you count synergy's stats...there aren't any really good defensive metrics to use. Defense in the NBA is mostly motivation with superstars anyways. Melo got blasted all the time in Denver, but it was really that he didn't care to play defense--not that he couldn't. It's the same with Love. If a guy is an elite defender, you'll know. If he's a superstar on a contender with support and he's STILL not playing defense, he's just a bad defender. If you're on a contender and you've got help...no other amount of motivation is gonna get you to play D.

[Rogue]

Kevin is a good player who lacks the leadership to carry a team imho, just like MVPau in memphis who couldn't even win a single game in the playoffs. Kevin won't win a playoff game either until he joins the Lakers to play as the #2 to Kobe who is god, tbh.

[spurraider21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKto9xsrNQo

[lefty]

Love is a stat padder who has 0 impact