Why is the U$ Media Ignoring the Ukrainian Neo-Nazi?

[Nbadan]

This troubling racist element of the “inspiring” Ukrainian uprising has been mostly airbrushed from the U.S. media’s narrative, but more honest sources of news have reported this disturbing reality.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

Neo-Nazi threat in new Ukraine: NEWSNIGHT

Crimea’s Case for Leaving Ukraine

Virtually everyone in Official Washington is condemning Russian “aggression” in Ukraine and demanding a belligerent U.S. response to Crimea’s desire to secede and join Russia, as a new Cold War hysteria grips U.S. pols and pundits



If you were living in Crimea, would you prefer to remain part of Ukraine with its coup-installed government – with neo-Nazis running four ministries including the Ministry of Defense – or would you want to become part of Russia, which has had ties to Crimea going back to Catherine the Great in the 1700s?

Granted, it’s not the greatest choice in the world, but it’s the practical one facing you. For all its faults, Russia has a functioning economy while Ukraine really doesn’t. Russia surely has its share of political and financial corruption but some of that has been brought under control.

A map showing Crimea (in beige) and its proximity to both the Ukrainian mainland and Russia.A map showing Crimea (in beige) and its proximity to both the Ukrainian mainland and Russia.

Not so in Ukraine where a moveable feast of some 10 “oligarchs” mostly runs the show in shifting alliances, buying up media outlets and politicians, while the vast majority of the population faces a bleak future, which now includes more European-demanded “austerity,” i.e. slashed pensions and further reductions in already sparse social services.

Even if the U.S.-backed plan for inserting Ukraine into the European Union prevails, Ukrainians would find themselves looking up the socio-economic ladder at the Greeks and other European nationals already living the nightmare of “austerity.”

Beyond that humiliation and misery, the continuing political dislocations across Ukraine would surely feed the further rise of right-wing extremists who espouse not only the goal of expelling ethnic Russians from Ukraine but Jews and other peoples considered not pure Ukrainian.

by Robert Parry
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/03/09-7

[Winehole23]

they aren't. it's out there. Ukrainian self-determination ain't all pretty.

[boutons_deux]

US media is following the US govt press releases, not reporting the news. US has a very long history of supporting, financing, propping up very nasty, murderous, undemocratic regimes when it suits US's interests, the foreign country's democracy or people. eg, Chile, Argentina, Philippines, etc, etc, etc

[FuzzyLumpkins]

the prevalence of the far right in the current conflict is well documented. the OP is baseless.

[TDMVPDPOY]

NEO NAZIS has got to be lamest bullshit, ur forefathers fought against nazism, only to see their offspring adopting it like some political push to get their agenda across

[angrydude]

It's well documented on the INTERNET.

But TV land and newspapers --and therefore the majority of casual viewers--live in the reality the US government tells them to.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's well documented on the INTERNET.

But TV land and newspapers --and therefore the majority of casual viewers--live in the reality the US government tells them to.

bullshit.

WP: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-ukraines-ultra-nationalists-present-a-need-for-us-caution/2014/03/10/2bdfd92a-a890-11e3-8d62-419db477a0e6_story.html

Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-ukraine-crisis-far-right-insight-idUSBREA2618B20140307

USAToday: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/01/ukraine-bandera/4279897/

NBC: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/29/22497751-are-far-right-militants-taking-over-ukraines-liberal-protest?lite

Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/oleksandr-feldman/ukraine-protests-nationalism-anti-semitism_b_4588507.html

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20824693

NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/opinion/ukraine-and-the-perils-of-division.html

I could go on but this notion that the media is trying to sweep the nationalists under the rug is stupid conspiracy nonsense.

[boutons_deux]

Ukraine: Will the Nazis and Jews Make Nice?

http://readersupportednews.org/images/stories/alphabet/rsn-H.jpgating Jews is nothing new in Ukraine. As far back as 1648-49, Cossacks and their allies in theChmielnicki Massacres (https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/ukraine.html#3) killed more than 100,000 Jews and destroyed some 300 Jewish communities. In 1920, as American, British, and French troops were intervening against the Soviet Revolution, Ukrainians waged a massive pogrom that killed some 60,000 Jews. Whether the country’s leader at the time, General Simon Petlura, quietly encouraged the attacks remains a matter of historical dispute. During World War II, Stepan Bandera and other home-grown quislings helped the Nazis (http://hnn.us/article/122778) slaughter hundreds of thousands of Russians, Poles, Czechs, Armenians, Gypsies, anti-Fascist Ukrainians, and Jews, including the thousands killed at a ravine near Kiev called Babi Yar (http://www.amazon.fr/Babi-English-translation-George-Reavey/dp/B0025B7O5Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1394291304&sr=8-2&keywords=Babi+Yar+poem).

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/22516-focus-ukraine-will-the-nazis-and-jews-make-nice

[Th'Pusher]

It's well documented on the INTERNET.

But TV land and newspapers --and therefore the majority of casual viewers--live in the reality the US government tells them to.

Personal Responsibility!

[pgardn]

The common thread in all these uprisings is they bring out the gamut of political views.

Of course the US has no neonazi nationalist element...

[angrydude]

bullshit.

WP: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-ukraines-ultra-nationalists-present-a-need-for-us-caution/2014/03/10/2bdfd92a-a890-11e3-8d62-419db477a0e6_story.html

Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-ukraine-crisis-far-right-insight-idUSBREA2618B20140307

USAToday: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/01/ukraine-bandera/4279897/

NBC: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/29/22497751-are-far-right-militants-taking-over-ukraines-liberal-protest?lite

Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/oleksandr-feldman/ukraine-protests-nationalism-anti-semitism_b_4588507.html

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20824693

NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/opinion/ukraine-and-the-perils-of-division.html

I could go on but this notion that the media is trying to sweep the nationalists under the rug is stupid conspiracy nonsense.

That is fail. Calling them "ring wing extremists" or "nationalists" doesn't do it justice. Maybe they go as far to mention "neo-fascist" in the body of the article (which no one reads). The reuters one goes so far as apologizing for them stating "Svoboda is currently best described as a radical nationalist party, and not as fascist or neo-Nazi," he said. "It is now not overtly anti-Semitic."" Another one quotes one of the party leaders itself saying that "we aren't neo-nazis I swear"

Ever wonder why they were attacking the Lenin statues? It wasn't because Russia had attacked yet.

I'll let you decide.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2ez1m3k.jpg

http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer3/2013/11/11/4968115/vk_b.jpg


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/52af483beab8ea070b43dd72-1200-858/ap91999496228.jpg

[angrydude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-dHVZTtTxQ#t=17

What the hell is a white power flag (celtic cross), and a confederate flag doing in the Ukrainian parliment? Lots of southerners in ukraine I guess...

[Th'Pusher]

That is fail. Calling them "ring wing extremists" or "nationalists" doesn't do it justice. Maybe they go as far to mention "neo-fascist" in the body of the article (which no one reads). The reuters one goes so far as apologizing for them stating "Svoboda is currently best described as a radical nationalist party, and not as fascist or neo-Nazi," he said. "It is now not overtly anti-Semitic."" Another one quotes one of the party leaders itself saying that "we aren't neo-nazis I swear"

Ever wonder why they were attacking the Lenin statues? It wasn't because Russia had attacked yet.

I'll let you decide.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2ez1m3k.jpg

http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer3/2013/11/11/4968115/vk_b.jpg


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/52af483beab8ea070b43dd72-1200-858/ap91999496228.jpg
Although I think the crux of your argument is a false premise, At what point do you begin holding the individual responsible for ferreting out the news sources important to them and making their own decisions as opposed to being the angry dude that whines about the media?

[angrydude]

Here's a nice snippet from the daily beast.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/03/putin-s-crimea-propaganda-machine.html


Putin needed a story to spin, no matter how full of holes, and thus the neo-Nazi claims. But as it turns out, Crimea’s streets are not exactly paved with extremists—a fact that has proven troublesome for Russian state TV channels looking to find token far-right bogeymen.

in other words lets ignore the real neo-nazis in ukraine and instead call putin hitler.

[angrydude]

Although I think the crux of your argument is a false premise, At what point do you begin holding the individual responsible for ferreting out the news sources important to them and making their own decisions as opposed to being the angry dude that whines about the media?

I think the vast majority of people don't pay attention to anything but headlines and the news media knows it.

I think it'd be great if everyone could invest 20 hours + per week researching what's going on in the world but it's unrealistic.

I think the media is playing a very cynical game with the public by whitewashing important facts and then oversimplifying arguments to sway public opinion.

Public opinion has very far reaching consequences. It leads to war which causes death and destruction and ruins millions of lives to enrich the few at the top controlling it.

Yes its immoral what they're doing.

[Wild Cobra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-dHVZTtTxQ#t=17

What the hell is a white power flag (celtic cross), and a confederate flag doing in the Ukrainian parliment? Lots of southerners in ukraine I guess...
The Celtic cross does not mean white power.

However, these are the people who wanted the president ousted. The Euromaidens are the group of thugs, and these are the people Obama wants to support...

[angrydude]

The Celtic cross does not mean white power.

However, these are the people who wanted the president ousted. The Euromaidens are the group of thugs, and these are the people Obama wants to support...

Ok debatable. It does according to the SPLC but they're a bunch of liars. Not sure the Svoboda’s know that though.

[Th'Pusher]

I think the vast majority of people don't pay attention to anything but headlines and the news media knows it.

I think it'd be great if everyone could invest 20 hours + per week researching what's going on in the world but it's unrealistic.

I think the media is playing a very cynical game with the public by whitewashing important facts and then oversimplifying arguments to sway public opinion.

Public opinion has very far reaching consequences. It leads to war which causes death and destruction and ruins millions of lives to enrich the few at the top controlling it.

Yes its immoral what they're doing.
So it is your opinion that the individual holds no responsibility here even though you have concede there are outlets to get the information. This is 100% square on shoulders of the media. Is that what you're saying?

[angrydude]

So it is your opinion that the individual holds no responsibility here even though you have concede there are outlets to get the information. This is 100% square on shoulders of the media. Is that what you're saying?

Well, I'm glad you're unable to argue this honestly but I'll give it one more go.

What do you think responsibility means?

I also think it'd be great if nobody ever stole or murdered but it's also unrealistic. Does that mean I also think they have 0 responsibility for their actions? Do I now believe we shouldn't put thieves and murders in jail?

[angrydude]

My views are quite clear. You're just trying to put asinine words in my mouth.

Now you'll respond that you're doing no such thing. You're just asking questions.

Seriously arguing with people like you is boring

[pgardn]

The Celtic cross does not mean white power.

However, these are the people who wanted the president ousted. The Euromaidens are the group of thugs, and these are the people Obama wants to support...


Thats blatantly false. There is a wide range of political groups in Kiev that wanted the president out, just like the president before him. They both were individually corrupt.

What the Russians clearly want is chaos in Kiev so that they can easily move forward in Crimea. And then if political infighting in Kiev continues, they can rightly claim there is no one to bargain with for any later control the Russians might wish to exert.

[angrydude]

Human nature is what it is.

I guess roofers who don't want to spend all their time looking up the news are "irresponsible people."

Or maybe the people whose job it is to look at and report the news could have more responsibility to present it honestly. So yes the lions share of responsibility falls on the media.

[pgardn]

Human nature is what it is.

I guess roofers who don't want to spend all their time looking up the news are "irresponsible people."

Or maybe the people whose job it is to look at and report the news could have more responsibility to present it honestly. So yes the lions share of responsibility falls on the media.

So what gain is there for press outlets to get things wrong? Press outlets that are not State run.

[Wild Cobra]

Thats blatantly false. There is a wide range of political groups in Kiev that wanted the president out, just like the president before him. They both were individually corrupt.

What the Russians clearly want is chaos in Kiev so that they can easily move forward in Crimea. And then if political infighting in Kiev continues, they can rightly claim there is no one to bargain with for any later control the Russians might wish to exert.
1) I don't believe your assessment. The EU killed the deal, and then the president accepted Russia's offer.

2) The current government with the ousting of the president is not valid. We should not be helping them, out until they restore their constitutionally elected president.

3) Yes, most the people of power over there are corrupt. That's why Crimea wants to secede.

[Th'Pusher]

Well, I'm glad you're unable to argue this honestly but I'll give it one more go.

What do you think responsibility means?

I also think it'd be great if nobody ever stole or murdered but it's also unrealistic. Does that mean I also think they have 0 responsibility for their actions? Do I now believe we shouldn't put thieves and murders in jail?

Responsibility, in this instance means, being a discerning consumer of new media. It doesn't mean you have to read everything, but identify solid news outlets and stick to them.

I could just as easily say it's unrealistic to ever eliminate poverty, and effectively refute the austerity measures your team has become so fond of in an effort to promote "personal responsibility".

[pgardn]

1) I don't believe your assessment. The EU killed the deal, and then the president accepted Russia's offer.

2) The current government with the ousting of the president is not valid. We should not be helping them, out until they restore their constitutionally elected president.

3) Yes, most the people of power over there are corrupt. That's why Crimea wants to secede.

The Crimea wants to secede because Kiev is corrupt?
So they want to be a part of the corrupt a Russian system where there are basically no real elections. Gotcha.

You need to do research on Kiev if you don't believe there are competing factions. That's why the elections are so important.

[Wild Cobra]

The Crimea wants to secede because Kiev is corrupt?
So they want to be a part of the corrupt a Russian system where there are basically no real elections. Gotcha.

You need to do research on Kiev if you don't believe there are competing factions. That's why the elections are so important.
Well, for some reason, it's more appealing than staying with the Ukraine.

That should say something...

[pgardn]

Well, for some reason, it's more appealing than staying with the Ukraine.

That should say something...

Heck yes it's more appealing when Russian solders are standing in the streets with weapons.

[Wild Cobra]

Heck yes it's more appealing when Russian solders are standing in the streets with weapons.
Crimea wanted to get out from under the Ukraine thumb before that.

[pgardn]

Crimea wanted to get out from under the Ukraine thumb before that.

Some did because they are ethnic Russians. Some...
And when Russia claimed ethnic Russians were under attack, which was blatantly false by credible accounts, heck yes they get scared. The men in the street with guns marching through often get the cheers because they are in control.

As French towns alternatively got taken over by the allies and Germans in WWII they alternated flags and cheers.

[TSA]

WC what are your thoughts on the ballot of the upcoming Crimean vote?

[Wild Cobra]

WC what are your thoughts on the ballot of the upcoming Crimean vote?
I think they will choose Russia.

[pgardn]

I think they will choose Russia.

Of course they will, there are Russian troops everywhere.

You think the Russians will ask for UN monitors to make sure they are free and fair. I mean they would not allow any monitoring during the invasion when ethnic Russians were under grave threat and were dying in the streets...

Naivety runs deep...

[TSA]

I think they will choose Russia.
Have you read the actual ballot?

* Ballot paper offers no choice for staying with status quo

* Both options lead to Crimea passing under Russian control

[TSA]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/12/crimea-vote-join-russia-ballot-no-option_n_4947557.html

KIEV, March 11 (Reuters) - Sunday's vote in Ukraine's Crimea is being officially billed as a chance for the peninsula's peoples to decide fairly and freely their future - but in fact there is no room on the ballot paper for voting "Nyet" to control by Russia.

The Crimean voter will have the right to choose only one of two options in the March 16 referendum which the region's pro-Russian leadership, protected by Russian forces, announced earlier this month.

According to a format of the ballot paper, published on the parliament's website, the first question will ask: "Are you in favour of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?"

The second asks: "Are you in favour of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?"

At first glance, the second option seems to offer the prospects of the peninsula remaining within Ukraine.




But the 1992 national blueprint - which was adopted soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then quickly abolished by the young post-Soviet Ukrainian state - is far from doing that.

This foresees giving Crimea all the qualities of an independent entity within Ukraine - but with the broad right to determine its own path and choose relations with whom it wants - including Russia.

With the pro-Russian assembly already saying it wants to return Crimea to Russia, this second option only offers a slightly longer route to shifting the peninsula back under Russian control, analysts say.

The option of asking people if they wish to stick with the status quo - in which Crimea enjoys autonomy but remains part of Ukraine - is not on offer.

Any mark in one of the boxes is regarded as a "Da" vote. Ballot papers will be regarded as spoiled if a voter fills in both boxes or indeed does not fill in either.

Those who stay away will also not influence the outcome, since the result will simply be based on the option preferred by a majority of those voting.

NO OPTION

"Even if it (the referendum) were legitimate, the two choices presented to Crimean voters offer them no option for leaving Russian control," wrote Keir Giles of the London-based Chatham House.

"The restoration of this (1992) constitution would be a step towards notional independence under Russian control ... Those citizens who were content with Crimea remaining part of Ukraine on the same basis as it has been for the last 20 years do not have a voice in this referendum. There is no third option available."

The Black Sea territory, which was under Russian rule for centuries and gifted to Ukraine by then-Kremlin leader Nikita Khrushchev in 1954 when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, has an ethnic Russian majority population which appears to ensure the vote will be valid on Sunday.

The vote will take place against the backdrop of a pro-Russia billboard campaign showing two maps and visions of Crimea - one covered in a Russian flag, the other with a giant black swastika emblazoned across it.

In Sevastopol, a Soviet World War Two "hero city" where part of the Russian Black Sea fleet is based, another placard urges people to vote to stop fascism, suggesting the vote was a way of stopping Ukraine's far-right radicals coming to power.

Election officials sought to project the impression of Crimea's peoples - who include the indigenous Tatars as well as Ukrainians - being offered a real choice. The ballot paper on the web site was in Ukrainian and Tatar as well as Russian.

Valery Medvedev, the Russian-born chairman of Sevastopol's electoral commission, used a news conference to announce how he would vote.

"We're living through historic times. Sevastopol would love to fulfil its dream of joining Russia. I want to be part of Russia and I'm not embarrassed to say that," he told reporters.

Medvedev said the vote would be fair, however. People only had to answer one question in the referendum, he added, before correcting himself to say there were in fact two questions. "Either to be with Russia or to be with Ukraine," he said.

[Wild Cobra]

Have you read the actual ballot?

* Ballot paper offers no choice for staying with status quo

* Both options lead to Crimea passing under Russian control

Last I saw, it was a choice between staying under Ukrainian control, or accepting to move to Russian control. Do you have a copy of it?

[Wild Cobra]

OK, it appears the choice is between joining Russia, or being an independent country.

[TSA]

OK, it appears the choice is between joining Russia, or being an independent country.

It appears they can be under Russian control, or be under Russian control.

[Wild Cobra]

It appears they can be under Russian control, or be under Russian control.
Bullshit.

The 1992 constitution has them as a completely autonomous republic of the Ukraine.

[TSA]

Bullshit.

The 1992 constitution has them as a completely autonomous republic of the Ukraine.

So they'd be an independent country under Russian control.

[Wild Cobra]

So they'd be an independent country under Russian control.
That's a funny comprehension you have. The Ukraine had it's independence from the Soviet Union in 1990.

[TSA]

Either way the vote goes they're under Russian control, why is that so hard for you to comprehend.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That is fail. Calling them "ring wing extremists" or "nationalists" doesn't do it justice. Maybe they go as far to mention "neo-fascist" in the body of the article (which no one reads). The reuters one goes so far as apologizing for them stating "Svoboda is currently best described as a radical nationalist party, and not as fascist or neo-Nazi," he said. "It is now not overtly anti-Semitic."" Another one quotes one of the party leaders itself saying that "we aren't neo-nazis I swear"

Ever wonder why they were attacking the Lenin statues? It wasn't because Russia had attacked yet.

I'll let you decide.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2ez1m3k.jpg

http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer3/2013/11/11/4968115/vk_b.jpg


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/52af483beab8ea070b43dd72-1200-858/ap91999496228.jpg

So did the pics come directly from your 'media will lie to you so listen to us' source complete with a description on how to think?

I googled "Ukraine far right nationalist" and listed every major outlet I saw on the first page. "Ukraine nazi" brought up a bunch of your beforeitsnews type conspiracy nonsense telling me that the first google was not real. If you want to be led around by the nose by that cottage industry then have at it.

[Th'Pusher]

So did the pics come directly from your 'media will lie to you so listen to us' source complete with a description on how to think?

I googled "Ukraine far right nationalist" and listed every major outlet I saw on the first page. "Ukraine nazi" brought up a bunch of your beforeitsnews type conspiracy nonsense telling me that the first google was not real. If you want to be led around by the nose by that cottage industry then have at it.

That's exactly what he wants. He wants the mainstream media to confirm his bias.

[Wild Cobra]

Either way the vote goes they're under Russian control, why is that so hard for you to comprehend.
Why is it so hard for you to understand?

[TSA]

Why is it so hard for you to understand?
I understand it quite well, you are the one who seems to be lost concerning the situation.

[Wild Cobra]

I understand it quite well, you are the one who seems to be lost concerning the situation.

Believe as you wish.

[Wild Cobra]

After a referendum on 20 January 1991, Crimea regained its status as an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic.[1] (Since this was months before the Declaration of Independence of Ukraine of 24 August 1991 (by December 1991 internationally recognized[2]) Crimea was at the time part of the Ukrainian SSR which was one of the constituent republics of the Soviet Union.[1][3]) In February 1992 the Crimean parliament transformed Crimea into "Republic of Crimea" and the Ukrainian government offered them more self-government.[1] On 5 May 1992 parliament declared Crimea independent[1] (which was yet to be approved by a referendum to be held 2 August 1992[4]) and passed the first Crimean constitution the same day.[4] On 6 May 1992 the same parliament inserted a new sentence into this constitution that declared that Crimea was part of Ukraine.[4] On 13 May 1992 the Verkhovna Rada (the Ukrainian parliament) annulled Crimea's independence declaration and gave its Crimean counterpart one week to do the same.[4] In June 1992 the parties reached a compromise and Crimea was given the status of "Autonomous Republic".[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Crimea

[TSA]

After a referendum on 20 January 1991, Crimea regained its status as an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic.[1] (Since this was months before the Declaration of Independence of Ukraine of 24 August 1991 (by December 1991 internationally recognized[2]) Crimea was at the time part of the Ukrainian SSR which was one of the constituent republics of the Soviet Union.[1][3]) In February 1992 the Crimean parliament transformed Crimea into "Republic of Crimea" and the Ukrainian government offered them more self-government.[1] On 5 May 1992 parliament declared Crimea independent[1] (which was yet to be approved by a referendum to be held 2 August 1992[4]) and passed the first Crimean constitution the same day.[4] On 6 May 1992 the same parliament inserted a new sentence into this constitution that declared that Crimea was part of Ukraine.[4] On 13 May 1992 the Verkhovna Rada (the Ukrainian parliament) annulled Crimea's independence declaration and gave its Crimean counterpart one week to do the same.[4] In June 1992 the parties reached a compromise and Crimea was given the status of "Autonomous Republic".[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Crimea

Once again


But the 1992 national blueprint - which was adopted soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then quickly abolished by the young post-Soviet Ukrainian state - is far from doing that.

This foresees giving Crimea all the qualities of an independent entity within Ukraine - but with the broad right to determine its own path and choose relations with whom it wants - including Russia.

With the pro-Russian assembly already saying it wants to return Crimea to Russia, this second option only offers a slightly longer route to shifting the peninsula back under Russian control, analysts say.

The option of asking people if they wish to stick with the status quo - in which Crimea enjoys autonomy but remains part of Ukraine - is not on offer.


"Even if it (the referendum) were legitimate, the two choices presented to Crimean voters offer them no option for leaving Russian control," wrote Keir Giles of the London-based Chatham House.

"The restoration of this (1992) constitution would be a step towards notional independence under Russian control ... Those citizens who were content with Crimea remaining part of Ukraine on the same basis as it has been for the last 20 years do not have a voice in this referendum. There is no third option available."

Care to explain how you think there is an option for them to not be under Russian control?

[Wild Cobra]

The '92 constitution was under the Ukraine, with autonomy.

Do you have a link to the exact ballot wording?

[TSA]

The '92 constitution was under the Ukraine, with autonomy.

Do you have a link to the exact ballot wording?


http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg.html)

[TeyshaBlue]

:lol

[Wild Cobra]

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg.html)
Oh nice. A graphic.

I was going to run it thru a translater program.

You did that purposely because I'm right. Didn't you.

Bye Fuzzy.

[Wild Cobra]

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg.html)

Just how stupid are you Fuzzy? That is not the ballot.

БЮЛ Л Е Т Е Н Ь
для голосования на общекрымском референдуме 16 марта 2014 года
БЮЛ Е Т Е Н Ь
для голосування на загальнокримському референдумі 16 березня 2014 року
2014 сенеси март 16-да умумкъырым референдумында рей берильмеси ичюн
БЮЛЛЕТЕНЬ
Отметьте любым знаком в квадрате тот вариант ответа, за который Вы голосуете:
Позначте будь-яким знаком у квадраті той варіант відповіді, за який Ви голосуєте:
Насыл бир вариант ичюн рей бергенинъизни ишаретнен бельгиленъиз:
1) Вы за воссоединение Крыма с Россией на правах
субъекта Российской Федерации?
1) Ви за возз'єднання Криму з Росією на правах
суб'єкта Російської Федерації?
1) Русие Федерациону субъекти акъларында Къырым
Русиеге къошулмасына разысынъыз?
2) Вы за восстановление действия Конституции
Республики Крым 1992 года и за статус Крыма как части
Украины?
2) Ви за відновлення дії Конституції Республіки
Крим 1992 року і за статус Криму як частини України?
2) Сиз Къырым Джумхуриетининъ 1992 сенеси ичюн
Анаясасы амельге кечирильмеси ве Къырым Украина
къысмы оларакъ статусы ичюн?
Бюллетень, в котором оставлены неотмеченными или отмечены оба варианта ответа,
считается недействительным.
Бюлетень, в якому залишено непозначеними або позначено обидва варіанти відповіді,
вважається недійсним.
Къайд этильмеген я да эки вариант къайд этильгени заманда бюллетень керчек
сайылмаз.
Бюллетень изготавливается размером 210 х 150 мм на бумаге белого цвета.

Key 2:

1) Do you support the reunification of the Crimea with Russia on rights
subject of the Russian Federation?

2) Do you support the restoration of the Constitution
Republic of Crimea in 1992 and as part of the status of Crimea
Ukraine?

[Wild Cobra]

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/BicHwbNIQAAv49q_zpsf953177a.jpg.html)

Just how ignorant are you to think that is the ballot wording?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol TSA going balls deep

[angrydude]

If you want to be led around by the U.S. gov. Nothing can help you.

I'm sure when the truth is declassified in 20 years you'll claim that you knew it all along

[pgardn]

If you want to be led around by the U.S. gov. Nothing can help you.

I'm sure when the truth is declassified in 20 years you'll claim that you knew it all along

I would like the truth right now.
What is it based on your research and knowledge of trusted news outlets?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

WC thinks that I am TSA?

ffs, how stupid can one man be?

[TSA]

WC thinks that I am TSA?

ffs, how stupid can one man be?

[TSA]

Just how stupid are you Fuzzy? That is not the ballot.

БЮЛ Л Е Т Е Н Ь
для голосования на общекрымском референдуме 16 марта 2014 года
БЮЛ Е Т Е Н Ь
для голосування на загальнокримському референдумі 16 березня 2014 року
2014 сенеси март 16-да умумкъырым референдумында рей берильмеси ичюн
БЮЛЛЕТЕНЬ
Отметьте любым знаком в квадрате тот вариант ответа, за который Вы голосуете:
Позначте будь-яким знаком у квадраті той варіант відповіді, за який Ви голосуєте:
Насыл бир вариант ичюн рей бергенинъизни ишаретнен бельгиленъиз:
1) Вы за воссоединение Крыма с Россией на правах
субъекта Российской Федерации?
1) Ви за возз'єднання Криму з Росією на правах
суб'єкта Російської Федерації?
1) Русие Федерациону субъекти акъларында Къырым
Русиеге къошулмасына разысынъыз?
2) Вы за восстановление действия Конституции
Республики Крым 1992 года и за статус Крыма как части
Украины?
2) Ви за відновлення дії Конституції Республіки
Крим 1992 року і за статус Криму як частини України?
2) Сиз Къырым Джумхуриетининъ 1992 сенеси ичюн
Анаясасы амельге кечирильмеси ве Къырым Украина
къысмы оларакъ статусы ичюн?
Бюллетень, в котором оставлены неотмеченными или отмечены оба варианта ответа,
считается недействительным.
Бюлетень, в якому залишено непозначеними або позначено обидва варіанти відповіді,
вважається недійсним.
Къайд этильмеген я да эки вариант къайд этильгени заманда бюллетень керчек
сайылмаз.
Бюллетень изготавливается размером 210 х 150 мм на бумаге белого цвета.

Key 2:

1) Do you support the reunification of the Crimea with Russia on rights
subject of the Russian Federation?

2) Do you support the restoration of the Constitution
Republic of Crimea in 1992 and as part of the status of Crimea
Ukraine?

What is this?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

WC thinks that I am TSA?

ffs, how stupid can one man be?

get your tongue out my ass. i'm disgusted.

[TSA]

Just how stupid are you Fuzzy? That is not the ballot.

БЮЛ Л Е Т Е Н Ь
для голосования на общекрымском референдуме 16 марта 2014 года
БЮЛ Е Т Е Н Ь
для голосування на загальнокримському референдумі 16 березня 2014 року
2014 сенеси март 16-да умумкъырым референдумында рей берильмеси ичюн
БЮЛЛЕТЕНЬ
Отметьте любым знаком в квадрате тот вариант ответа, за который Вы голосуете:
Позначте будь-яким знаком у квадраті той варіант відповіді, за який Ви голосуєте:
Насыл бир вариант ичюн рей бергенинъизни ишаретнен бельгиленъиз:
1) Вы за воссоединение Крыма с Россией на правах
субъекта Российской Федерации?
1) Ви за возз'єднання Криму з Росією на правах
суб'єкта Російської Федерації?
1) Русие Федерациону субъекти акъларында Къырым
Русиеге къошулмасына разысынъыз?
2) Вы за восстановление действия Конституции
Республики Крым 1992 года и за статус Крыма как части
Украины?
2) Ви за відновлення дії Конституції Республіки
Крим 1992 року і за статус Криму як частини України?
2) Сиз Къырым Джумхуриетининъ 1992 сенеси ичюн
Анаясасы амельге кечирильмеси ве Къырым Украина
къысмы оларакъ статусы ичюн?
Бюллетень, в котором оставлены неотмеченными или отмечены оба варианта ответа,
считается недействительным.
Бюлетень, в якому залишено непозначеними або позначено обидва варіанти відповіді,
вважається недійсним.
Къайд этильмеген я да эки вариант къайд этильгени заманда бюллетень керчек
сайылмаз.
Бюллетень изготавливается размером 210 х 150 мм на бумаге белого цвета.

Key 2:

1) Do you support the reunification of the Crimea with Russia on rights
subject of the Russian Federation?

2) Do you support the restoration of the Constitution
Republic of Crimea in 1992 and as part of the status of Crimea
Ukraine?

No shit you stupid fuck. Just how stupid are you Wild Cobra? I already posted the ballot questions in post #35, you were just too stupid to figure that out as you just reposted the exact same 2 questions that were in the article I linked. And if you read just below the two ballot questions in the article it will explain to you AGAIN how both options lead to Russian control, you stupid fuck.

[TSA]

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/50000-protest-crimea-action-in-moscow


Around 50,000 people rallied in central Moscow today in protest at Russia's intervention in Ukraine, a day before the Crimean peninsula votes on switching to Kremlin rule.

Waving both Ukrainian and Russian flags and shouting slogans heard during the anti-government protests in Kiev, the demonstrators urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to pull troops back from a Cold War-style confrontation.

Marchers carried placards reading "Putin, get out of Ukraine" and others comparing Russia's move on Crimea with the Nazi annexation of the Sudetenland as Europe rushed headlong into World War II.


Many of the protesters adopted the chants and slogans of Ukraine's popular uprising that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych last month.

[boutons_deux]

Russian Troops 'Invade' Gas Facility On Ukraine Mainland

http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-troops-invade-gas-facility-on-ukraine-mainland-2014-3?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+I nsider%29

[Wild Cobra]

WC thinks that I am TSA?

ffs, how stupid can one man be?
Did you mean to post this under your Fuzzy ID?

[Wild Cobra]

No shit you stupid fuck. Just how stupid are you Wild Cobra? I already posted the ballot questions in post #35, you were just too stupid to figure that out as you just reposted the exact same 2 questions that were in the article I linked. And if you read just below the two ballot questions in the article it will explain to you AGAIN how both options lead to Russian control, you stupid fuck.

The graphic you posted is not the ballot question, which you posted in response to me asking for it. You stupid fuck.

[TSA]

The graphic you posted is not the ballot question, which you posted in response to me asking for it. You stupid fuck.

Once again, no shit. I posted the ballot questions before you asked for them, post #35, you were just too stupid to see that, like always.

[Wild Cobra]

Once again, no shit. I posted the ballot questions before you asked for them, post #35, you were just too stupid to see that, like always.
I asked for proof. What you listed was not proof. I ended up having to find it myself.

Why is it so hard for you to follow logical sequences of events?

[TSA]

I asked for proof. What you listed was not proof. I ended up having to find it myself.

Why is it so hard for you to follow logical sequences of events?

Are the ballot questions I posted not identical to what you posted, and which ones were posted first?

[TSA]

Are the ballot questions I posted not identical to what you posted, and which ones were posted first?

Having trouble following a logical sequence of events dipshit?

[Nbadan]

Back on topic...Time for a truth-bomb...

Turning Ukrainian Fascists into "Freedom Fighters":Why US Journalists Have Blood on Their Hands
March 19, 2014
Turning Ukrainian Fascists into "Freedom Fighters"
Why US Journalists Have Blood on Their Hands

by ERIC SOMMER


Hey U.S. mass media journalists: A large number of you writing in outlets like CNN, Fox News, New York Times, and Washington Post have blood on your hands. It may initially sound exaggeration, but you are complicit in mass murder. In the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals at the end of WW II, the prosecution powerfully argued that those journalists who use propaganda to prepare the public to accept war crimes are themselves also guilty of those crimes.

As the Nuremberg prosecutor stated: “The use made by the Nazi conspirators of psychological warfare is well known. Before each major aggression, with some few exceptions based on expediency, they initiated a press campaign calculated to weaken their victims and to prepare the German people psychologically for the attack….In the propaganda system of the Hitler State it was the daily press and the radio that were the most important weapons.¡±”

During the run-up to the Iraq war – an unprovoked war of aggression - many of you endlessly repeated, without proper critique or doubt, the false Bush Administrations claims that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and that this somehow justified military invasion.

By helping to manufacture the consent of the public for that war, and by helping to intimidate opponents of the war, you were complict in sending thousands of young American men and women abroad to kill and be killed; thousands of them died, tens or hundreds of thousands were injured or mentally traumatized, not to mention up to a million Iraquis who died as a result of the war.....


....Now many of you working for the corporate mass media are at it again – demonizing Russia and Putin, preparing the public to accept the necessity to ‘punish the devil’. Your propaganda is concealing the fact that two neo-Nazis parties, Svoboda and Right Sector, have gained control of the military and security apparatus of the Ukraine – they are now ministers of those departments – through a violent seizure of power from a democratically elected government; you are glossing over the fact that Russia has a standing military base and treaty rights for Russian soldiers to be present in the Crimea; and you are mindlessly presenting the U.S. administrations argument that Russias willingness to help protect Crimeans from fascist forces is somehow ‘aggression’, though they have fired no shots, and that American sanctions or even military action may be ‘required’ to ‘protect Ukraine’.

The reality on the ground has been shamelessly distorted by a large number of media journalists, helping to prepare public opinion for threats, sanctions, or even military action against Russia. The New York Times has opined that ”Putin¡¯s claim of an immediate threat to Ukrainian Russians is empty.¡± The Guardian newspaper in Britain dismissed as false the statements by Russian officials that Russian-speaking Ukranians and other minorities are threatened by fascist forces. Hundreds of articles in other mass media have echoed sentiments of this type, giving the impression that Russian concerns are nothing but a smoke-screen for a land-grab.

In reality, six ministers in the unelected Ukranian government are from the two fascist parties, Svoboda and Right Sector, whose anti-semetic and racist leaders are on record as admiring and wanting to emulate fascists of the past. Tyahnybok, the leader of the larger of the two fascist parties, has called for the destruction of the ¡°Russkie-Yid mafia that controls Ukraine’. In 2010 he praised John Demjarijuk, convicted as a participant in the murder of 30,000 people in Nazi concentration camps, as a hero. His assistant has founded a think-tank called ‘the Josepht Goebbels Political Research Center, named after Nazi Germany’s head propagandist. Within the past year the world Jewish Congress has warned about the danger from this party.

Back in the day you – using the power of the press – also uncritically backed the U.S. governments massive supply of weapons, training, and money to Ben Laden and the other Jihad ‘freedom fighters’ in Afganistan. The blowback from that venture was 911, and the spread of Ben Ladens U.S.backed Al Cada terrorists all over the world.

The first signs of trouble from support for the ‘Ukranian freedom fighters’ have already appeared. Some members of the unelected ‘Ukranian government’ in Kiev. are calling for it to arm itself with nuclear weapons if the U.S. doesn’t force Crimea to remain part of the Ukraine. This development would place weapons of unimaginable power for mass destruction in the hands of the two fascist parties which now control the military and security ministries of the self-appointed government.

The blowback from support – including your support – for the first fascist government to be installed in Europe since the end of World War II is unfortunately coming.
More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/

[Nbadan]

Is what we are fighting for in Ukraine?


Results of the "Ultra" in Maidan: Key Issues and Nuclear Weapons
By George Eliason , OpEdNews

Freedom of Expression


Today in Ukraine all social media are data-mined. The profiles are geo-located and normal people expressing their opinions are persecuted . They found this young man and took him out into the dark.

"You little F#cker! You tell the Ukrainian People you are sorry for all the sh@t you wrote on the internet!"

"I'm sorry for everything I wrote on the internet to all Ukrainian people ."

"Do you want another beating?"

"No."

"Are you going to write anymore sh@t?"

"No."

"Do you have anything to do with ultra coalminers?"

"No."

This is the new EU standard of freedom of speech in Ukraine. Freedom of speech and press are guaranteed by two men who are becoming familiar faces, Svoboda MP Igor Miroshnynchenko and party ideologist Andrey Ilyenko.

The only freedom of speech MP Igor is intent on guaranteeing is that you agree with the Ultra Nationalist line. The crime committed by the government-owned TV station was showing Vladimir Putin's speech about Crimea in its entirety. Today MP Igor is as unrepentant as the day he beat up, broke the collar bone of, and threatened Aleksandr Panteleymonov. Aleksandr was accused of being a Moskal. The Ministry of Justice is headed by Svoboda. Four days later, no charges have been filed.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/2/Results-of-the-Ultra-in-by-George-Eliason-Anti-semitic_Anti-semitism_Crimea_Fascism-140324-700.html

Right Sector free to bully and harass people and businesses with impunity....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbyjW-Cuwcg

Are you interested in the truth enough to read?

The second link is about Progressive Students at a University in Kiev who have formed an "armored" "defense group" because they know that Svoboda will try and shut them down! How bad will it have to get before we start paying attention?

http://www.thenation.com/article/178662/far-right-groups-infiltrate-kievs-institutions-student-movement-pushes-back
(link leads to the nation magazine)

[pgardn]

Or how about ignoring guys like this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/25/notorious-leader-of-ukraines-protests-dragged-out-of-car-shot-dead/?tid=hp_mm&hpid=z3

These types of conflicts are going to bring out all kinds of groups. Why are we ignoring the communist element that does not side with Russia? Why are we ignoring the cross dressers ?

[Nbadan]

This isn't the KKK.....right sector are active militants...

Right Sector coordinator Muzychko killed in Ukraine's Rivne
Source: Interfax-Ukraine


Oleksandr Muzychko, also known as Sashko Bily, the coordinator of the Right Sector ultra-nationalistic group in western Ukraine, was killed in the city of Rivne last night, parliamentarian Oleksandr Doniy said on his Facebook page.

"I have just been told that Sashko Bily (Oleksandr Muzychko) was killed. Two vehicles cut up his car, after which he was dragged out of his car and forced into one of these vehicles. He was then thrown out of the vehicle handcuffed behind his back and with two gunshot wounds to his heart," Doniy said.

On March 7, the Russian Investigative Committee opened a criminal inquiry against Muzychko, who was suspected of involvement in acts of banditry targeting Russian federal forces in Chechnya in the 1990s.

Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin told Interfax that Muzychko was accused of "killing at least 20 soldiers of federal forces held in captivity."

Read more: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/right-sector-coordinator-muzychko-killed-in-ukraines-rivne-340741.html

[pgardn]

This isn't the KKK.....right sector are active militants...

Right Sector coordinator Muzychko killed in Ukraine's Rivne
Source: Interfax-Ukraine


Read more: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/right-sector-coordinator-muzychko-killed-in-ukraines-rivne-340741.html


So these are the types that are running Kiev?
Really?