Small Claims - Do I have a case?

[Spurminator]

At the risk of sounding like a cheapskate or a whiner... Here's my story.

I ride the Dallas Transit rail (DART) to work every morning. I have done so for 2+ years, buying monthly passes through work. Last July, I did not buy a monthly pass because I was out for more than a week, so I decided it would be better to simply buy daily passes.

Last week, I purchased a pass for August. Seeing as it was the end of the month, I did not purchase a daily pass those days. At 6:00, on Friday (July 29) my ticket was checked. I produced my August pass, but she asked to see a July pass. I told her that I did not have a July pass, but that I had just purchased my August pass a couple of days prior. I explained to her why I did not purchase a July pass, and even showed my June pass to back up my claim that I buy passes every month.

Nonetheless, I was issued a ticket. The frustrating thing about it all is that I rarely see tickets issued. Typically, people are asked to get off at the next stop and purchase a one-way ticket. Or they are simply given a warning. Unfortunately, neither of these options was offered to me.

I asked her, as well as her superior on the phone today, if there was any sort of standard for whether an officer issues a Warning or a Citation. Basically it comes down to the whim of the officer (not surprisingly). Her supervisor seemed sympathetic, but told me he could not reverse the citation. (Whether it's "can't" or "won't," I'm not sure.)

So my option is to settle it within the next 30 days, or take it to court. I don't really feel I have a case if I take it to court, since I really didn't (technically) have a fare. The court fee (of course) is higher than the cost of paying the fine.

I'm pretty fed up with the DART. My car has been broken in to twice in the last 8 months, and now I'm having to pay for fare evasion. And they don't return phone calls or emails. So this isn't so much me trying to save a hundred bucks... It's more of a "last straw" that has me really enfuriated.

Besides using this space to vent... I was wondering if anyone has ever actually fought a traffic ticket or anything like this, and whether or not this is a hopeless cause. A possible loophole might be that the officer checked "No Fare" instead of "Invalid Fare" on the ticket, but I don't know if that would fly.

[ObiwanGinobili]

A possible loophole might be that the officer checked "No Fare" instead of "Invalid Fare" on the ticket, but I don't know if that would fly.

that to me seems like your only chance of gettign this dismissed.... and even that too me seems like a long shot.
If it was me I'd just pay it.

sucks tho.

[timvp]

Sounds like you are screwed. Sorry man, but like Obiwan said, it sounds like you should just pay it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm not too familiar with that transit system, but it sounds to me that they have more of a case than you. If it was in fact July 29, and you in fact did not have a July pass then you in fact did not have fare. I would think that was clear. Again, I might be mistaken, I'm just assesing through the facts you've stated.

[SWC Bonfire]

You did not have a valid fare for the day in question. You got busted & have no case.

I'm not saying that she shouldn't have cut you some slack. But you have no case.

[Flea]

I agree with everyone else. It the luck of the draw, sometimes it works for you sometimes against. Yes, a nicer person would have probably let it slide but she has every right not too. Sorry, it does suck but you don't have a case.

[timvp]

If you want to fight it just for the principle of the matter, you might have a chance depending on how cool the judge is. If I were you, I'd bring in proof of all your past passes and whatever daily ones you had for July and say when you bought the pass, you thought it was good for a month starting that day. If you bring in like a year's worth of passes, plus a pass that was bought for August before you got this ticket ... you might have a chance. To top it off you can then show the "no fare" and "invalid fare" mistake.

Chances are slim, but if you show you are a loyal DART customer and illustrate it as an honest mistake, you could get pity from the judge.

[Spurminator]

Yeah, I only have two - June and August... I didn't keep my daily passes.

Do the officers usually show up in court? If they don't, is the case dismissed?

(I'm probably going to pay it, but I'm entertaining a Fight-the-System Fantasy right now...)

[MannyIsGod]

What is the court situation like? Is the ticket like a regular citation where you go before judge? It could depend on the leniency of the judge or the prosecutor. They might cut you a break on the charges.

[Spurminator]

Don't really know, I've never had one before.

[MannyIsGod]

If you want to fight it just for the principle of the matter, you might have a chance depending on how cool the judge is. If I were you, I'd bring in proof of all your past passes and whatever daily ones you had for July and say when you bought the pass, you thought it was good for a month starting that day. If you bring in like a year's worth of passes, plus a pass that was bought for August before you got this ticket ... you might have a chance. To top it off you can then show the "no fare" and "invalid fare" mistake.

Chances are slim, but if you show you are a loyal DART customer and illustrate it as an honest mistake, you could get pity from the judge.
Dude, I'd fight it. In exactly the way LJ says above. I hate the way people just roll over and take whatever is handed to them in this manner as illustrated by this thread.

Fight it. Yes, if she doesn't show up (the officer) it will more than likely get dismissed.

How did you pay for the daily passes? Did you use cash or another form of payment where there might be a record (debit/credit card).

[MannyIsGod]

I've fought traffic tickets and won, and I know several people who have.

[SWC Bonfire]

I can tell Manny wasn't lying when he said he worked for an insurance company. :lol

[Spurminator]

:lol I knew I could count on you Manny.

The daily passes were cash, and I kept them in my pocket so I always threw them away at the end of the day.

[tlongII]

Basically you're hosed. However, if this is treated like a traffic ticket you might get the amount of the fine reduced if you go to court.

[Useruser666]

I hope we can get the same transit system here SA.

[Spurminator]

I hope we can get the same transit system here SA.


The transit system itself is great. The DART Police are horrible though. What I failed to mention is that this was the first time all month I had been checked for a ticket. You would think the trains would have been swarming with cops last month...

[timvp]

Ah ha. You got had by a cop trying to fill their end of the month quota. That explains a lot of it.

:smokin

[Spurminator]

I asked her supervisor if that was it and he said quotas were illegal, so they didn't practice them.

Still find that hard to believe, but what're ya gonna do?

[Marcus Bryant]

You employed some common sense, took a small gamble, and then got stung. You should fight it. If the judge is a hardass, fuck whitebread Dallas.

[timvp]

I asked her supervisor if that was it and he said quotas were illegal, so they didn't practice them.

Still find that hard to believe, but what're ya gonna do?

Having official quotas are "illegal". But believe me, a cop would get re-assigned if they were put on that duty and didn't live up to a certain number of issued tickets per month.

[Spurminator]

Maybe that's a case then. Perhaps I would be offered leniency on suspicion of quotas.

[Marcus Bryant]

Speaking of the DART in Big D.... I was in Dallas back in April. Drove around downtown in a rental car. Apparently I ended up driving in a pedestrian area around one of the train depots or whatever. Got stopped by a DART cop. Got a warning, but then the bastard gave me like 4 different sets of directions to get where I wanted to go. It was as if he was trying to get me into making another mistake. After I left I saw him following me from like a block back. Anyways, I feel your pain.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think that if he just wants to get his money back then maybe he should fight the fine, but if your intention is to prove that they were wrong, then no, you've got no case at all. My suggestion is pay the fine, since you've already stated that the littigation fee is more than the actual fine, that would be the most sensible thing to do.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol I knew I could count on you Manny.

The daily passes were cash, and I kept them in my pocket so I always threw them away at the end of the day.
I hate the way municipalities treat these violations as an extra source of income. It really pisses me off, because they don't want to stop the "crime", they want to profit from it.

[Duff McCartney]

I fought the law and the law won.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

A possible loophole might be that the officer checked "No Fare" instead of "Invalid Fare" on the ticket, but I don't know if that would fly.

Do they have a different cost for students/senior citizens/children? Because if they do, that is probably why the officer checked the "No Fare" instead of "Invalid Fare".

I would think that an Invalid Fare would be attempting to use some type of discounted fare for which you don't qualify. You have paid "A" fare, just not "THE" fare you were supposed to pay, therefore it is an "invalid fare".

If this is the case, then the officer was correct in issuing you a "No Fare" ticket because, technically, you didn't pay any type of fare for that day.

If there are "other fares" available then this is not your loophole. At this point, the only thing that will save you is a sympathetic judge and even that is a gamble if you can't produce the type of evidence timvp suggested.

Basically because of cost and time involved, you're better off paying. Even a victory in Fantasy Court might not be forthcoming.

[Kori Ellis]

Dude, I'd fight it. In exactly the way LJ says above. I hate the way people just roll over and take whatever is handed to them in this manner as illustrated by this thread.


I hate the way municipalities treat these violations as an extra source of income. It really pisses me off, because they don't want to stop the "crime", they want to profit from it.

How is paying a fine when you break a law considered "rolling over"? Spurminator did something wrong and intentionally broke the rules. He knew that his pass wasn't good on that day; he was just trying to coast. I don't see that he has any grounds to fight it in this case.

[ShoogarBear]

Did you tell her you were the Spurminator?

[scott]

I'd try to get off with probation or something - but I don't see you getting off on this one.

You could try a "I bought a weekly/monthly/whatever pass, and thought I had it in my bag... but I lost it. Look... I have a June and August... and I had a July, I just lost it" and they may give you a reduced fine.

Of course, you'd be lying in court...

[Chris]

If you go to court to fight the case and the ticket issuing officer doesn't show up then its dismissed. Represent yourself with no lawyer and the court costs will pale in comparison to the fine. 90% of the time the officer WILL NOT show up. It's a way around the system which I am all for.

[MannyIsGod]

How is paying a fine when you break a law considered "rolling over"? Spurminator did something wrong and intentionally broke the rules. He knew that his pass wasn't good on that day; he was just trying to coast. I don't see that he has any grounds to fight it in this case.
Laws have a reason for their implimentation and violation of the laws may not be related to the origional reason for the law being in place. Also, the penalties for the breaking of such laws are rarely designed to punish or deter the law breaker but rather to gain the maximum benefit for the law enforcement body/municipality.

For example, while speed laws are in place for our safety, many small municipalities implement and enforce the these laws with no regards to safety but rather as a means of generating revenue. That amounts to a form of taxation. If there was a genuine intent to protect citzens safety, an effective method of actually deturring the breaking of the law would be put into place. But rather, cities and other governing bodies model their laws to grain the maximum financial benefit. That is an entirely different agenda than the intent of laws should be. Laws should not be enacted by governing bodies in profit making schemes.

The laws are what they are and while Spurminator violated the law, he was obviously not trying to screw the transit authority out of fares. He purchases fares on a regular basis and if he bought a daily passes 15 days out of the month he paid an amount equal to the monthly pass. All of those items are something that a judge should take into consideration before deciding whether or not he should have to pay the entire fine.

But, the transit authority is obviously not interested in a "fair" fine/punishment because they have a policy that makes challenging a ticket a more expensive option, encouraging the ticketed person to simply accept their blanket fine.

That policy, combined with the way muncipalties use these offense as a secondary form of taxation is why I believe paying those fines without fighting back is just rolling over.

[MannyIsGod]

If you go to court to fight the case and the ticket issuing officer doesn't show up then its dismissed. Represent yourself with no lawyer and the court costs will pale in comparison to the fine. 90% of the time the officer WILL NOT show up. It's a way around the system which I am all for.
I dont know how it is in other places, but I know thats not the case here in San Antonio. Officers get paid overtime for their court apperences and that is usually a damn good incentive for them to show up.

[Kori Ellis]

The laws are what they are and while Spurminator violated the law, he was obviously not trying to screw the transit authority out of fares

Yes he was. He didn't pay for the day that he was trying to travel. That's the bottomline. It doesn't matter what he paid for prior or since. He didn't pay to travel that day.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes he was. He didn't pay for the day that he was trying to travel. That's the bottomline. It doesn't matter what he paid for prior or since. He didn't pay to travel that day.
I disagree. If he wasn't trying to pay his share, he woudln't purchase the pass each month. He'd try to screw the transit authority. He bought daily passes, and had probably paid the price of a monthly pass for the month.

Either way, if he goes to court I think the judge will take that into consideration and lower his fine. But then again, he could be a hard ass and hand down the maximum fee.

[Kori Ellis]

I disagree. If he wasn't trying to pay his share, he woudln't purchase the pass each month. He'd try to screw the transit authority. He bought daily passes, and had probably paid the price of a monthly pass for the month.

Either way, if he goes to court I think the judge will take that into consideration and lower his fine. But then again, he could be a hard ass and hand down the maximum fee.

Why are you posting? You are supposed to be at Trinity.

[Spurminator]

As silly as it may sound (and it does in hindsight) I actually didn't think I was cheating the system at the time. Since the August passes were available, I really thought this was an acceptable form of fare for the remainder of July... If I'd had any doubts I probably would have contacted DART or bought daily passes the rest of the week. But quite frankly, it never occurred to me that it would be an issue.

Not that I'm banking on that as a defense, that's my own fault for not thinking.

I'm going to go ahead and pay it... My anger has subsided a bit and I've weighed the cost of the ticket vs. the stress of wondering how challenging it would turn out, and I'd rather just not think about it anymore.

[Kori Ellis]

How much is the ticket (if you don't mind saying)?

[Spurminator]

$75 (in the next 30 days).

Like I said, not really a money issue. (Although it's not like I wipe my ass with $75 checks every day either.)

[MannyIsGod]

Why are you posting? You are supposed to be at Trinity.
:lol

That was at 10:24. I'm 2 minutes away from Trinity.

[MannyIsGod]

I have to admit, $75 vs losing a day of work and having to pay a fine as well probably means I would just pay the fine as well. That is not really an excessive fine by any means.

[TDMVPDPOY]

You could write a letter, and if they are considerate they will let you off, but in this case just take them too court. Its always the ppl who get pushed around by these ppl. Same here in australia we got public transport inpectors who issue fines to fare invaders without valid tickets, if you have money but no coins to buy a ticket they will fine you, even if you bought the wrong class of ticket when ur money short, they will still fine you. One time my bro n his friends beated up 4 inspectors and ran away to be found by cops in the next suburb hahaha, next thing you know it they were in the courts fightin a compensation case, and guess who won, WE WON. Those ppl just push ppl around, we got a really good lawyer to represent us, and he wanted to make the case state news but we said its ok we only wanna win the case cose we had a legitimate case against their claims.

Anyway just my 2cents.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I really don't see what everyone is complaining about! The rules are simple, if you don't have a ticket that covers the day in question the inspector has every right to fine you. It doesn't matter if you bought a ticket every day for the past 20 years, you don't buy a ticket today, YOU CAN'T USE THE TRAIN TODAY! Why is it so hard to understand? Just because you're a regular customer does not mean you get free ride days.

Furthermore, it wasn't a mistake, Spurminator bought an August ticket thinking that by doing so, he wouldn't have to pay the ticket for the 29 of July. That is against the rules. Tickets bought for August only apply for AUGUST! Now, I'm not saying the guy shouldn't have cut you some slack, maybe he should have, but to claim the agent did anything wrong is preposterous. Spurminator has absolutely no legal claim whatsoever.

[Marcus Bryant]

I really don't see what everyone is complaining about! The rules are simple, if you don't have a ticket that covers the day in question the inspector has every right to fine you. It doesn't matter if you bought a ticket every day for the past 20 years, you don't buy a ticket today, YOU CAN'T USE THE TRAIN TODAY! Why is it so hard to understand? Just because you're a regular customer does not mean you get free ride days.

Furthermore, it wasn't a mistake, Spurminator bought an August ticket thinking that by doing so, he wouldn't have to pay the ticket for the 29 of July. That is against the rules. Tickets bought for August only apply for AUGUST! Now, I'm not saying the guy shouldn't have cut you some slack, maybe he should have, but to claim the agent did anything wrong is preposterous. Spurminator has absolutely no legal claim whatsoever.


Inspector Javert is in the house.

You're right, it doesn't matter legally if he had a pass for every other day until eternity. Yet, he was a regular user of the service. Now if this was a private enterprise and not a public one I am sure the law of common sense would have prevailed and he could have purchased a one day pass and have been done with it.

To me it's like a driver with a spotless driving record who is hit with a speeding ticket by an asshole cop when they were simply trying to pass another car.

Anyways, the next time you get penalized by someone following the absolute letter of the law, don't complain about it. It's amazing how many perfect individuals read this forum.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Inspector Javert is in the house.

You're right, it doesn't matter legally if he had a pass for every other day until eternity. Yet, he was a regular user of the service. Now if this was a private enterprise and not a public one I am sure the law of common sense would have prevailed and he could have purchased a one day pass and have been done with it.

To me it's like a driver with a spotless driving record who is hit with a speeding ticket by an asshole cop when they were simply trying to pass another car.

Anyways, the next time you get penalized by someone following the absolute letter of the law, don't complain about it. It's amazing how many perfect individuals read this forum.
Look smartass, I didn't criticise him alright. I simply don't see how anyone can think he has a case from the legal point of view. You want to argue that the inspector was an ass because he didn't cut him some slack, be my guest, but he did nothing wrong, he was just enforcing the rules, a bit harshy maybe, but completely within the rules.

[MannyIsGod]

Look smartass, I didn't criticise him alright. I simply don't see how anyone can think he has a case from the legal point of view. You want to argue that the inspector was an ass because he didn't cut him some slack, be my guest, but he did nothing wrong, he was just enforcing the rules, a bit harshy maybe, but completely within the rules.
I can see easily how he has a case from a very legal point of view. Not every situation is created equal, and there are things in place in our legal system to account for that.