Bill Simmons Trolling Lakers

[Sybok]

kers95
Franchise Player
http://forums.lakersground.net/images/ranks/star_rank6_4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/3pD09nq.gif

Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 12707
Location: A University in California



http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=5738309#5738309)Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject:








dirka dirka wrote:




T3R wrote:


Simmons: "Tim Duncan is the best player of his generation."




I do not agree with your opinion.




Simmons is ridiculous. He's accusing our team of not trying and tanking, yet he was praising Boston, of all teams, for playing hard and making games competitive. Dude's a complete bum. ESPN is garbage from top to bottom, other than Marc Stein.
_________________


Quote:


Bryant had come to rage against the idea that Howard's clownish disposition could overtake the locker room, the Lakers' culture, and had warned Howard that he would never, ever let it happen.





Last edited by Lakers95 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total





Back to top (http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=167835&postdays=0&postorder=asc******=125#top)


http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/lang_english/icon_profile.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=31646) http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/lang_english/icon_pm.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/privmsg.php?mode=post&u=31646) http://forums.lakersground.net/templates/uberSTYLE/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://forums.lakersground.net/posting.php?mode=quote&p=5738309)

[Sean Cagney]

Simmons being a Boston fan will forever hate LA, it goes with the territory.

[DAF86]

Simmons being a Boston fan will forever hate LA, it goes with the territory.

He's right though.

[RsxPiimp]

Bill Simmon's opinion :lmao

[DAF86]

Bill Simmon's opinion :lmao

Makes him several millions per year. I wish I had that kind of opinion.

[HI-FI]

TD's legend will continue to grow, not sure I can say the same about Bryant though.

[RsxPiimp]

Makes him several millions per year. I wish I had that kind of opinion.

Doesn't mean squat. Do you value his opinion?

[scanry]

Bill Simmon's opinion :lmao

Don't think many will dispute it tbh. He's accomplished more as a player tbh.

[DAF86]

Doesn't mean squat. Do you value his opinion?

More than yours, definitely.

[Sean Cagney]

He's right though.

True.........

[RsxPiimp]

More than yours, definitely.

:lol

Cool, so you do value the fact he ranked Kobe # 8 on the All time list?

Above Shaq and Olajuwon? :lol


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

[ezau]

:lol

Cool, so you do value the fact he ranked Kobe # 8 on the All time list?

Above Shaq and Olajuwon? :lol


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

Tim Duncan is at # 7.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Tim Duncan has a major impact on every area of the game. Tim is a top 3? two way player of alltime

So yeah no doubt he's the greatest after jordan

[ezau]

Why the fuck is Chimpman Wilt Chamberlain at # 6? Fucker played against 6'9 white boys in his prime.

[RsxPiimp]

Tim Duncan is at # 7.

That's not question this time though. He said he values Simmon's opinion. I just want to see how he values Simmon's opinion now that he has Kobe above Shaq.

:downspin:

[StrengthAndHonor]

:lol

Cool, so you do value the fact he ranked Kobe # 8 on the All time list?

Above Shaq and Olajuwon? :lol


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html


Piimp doing work.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Listening to him, Tirico, and Rose made me want to jam sharp objects into my ears.

[Cry Havoc]

Kobe is a lock.

For the 11th best player of all-time as things stand. James has already removed him from the top 10, tbh.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan (moves up to 5 with a ring this year)
7. Russell
8. James (moves up to 3 or 4 with a ring this year)
9. Big O
10. Hakeem

[StrengthAndHonor]

How can you not have Shaq in your Top 10 and put Big O in it?:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why the fuck is Chimpman Wilt Chamberlain at # 6? Fucker played against 6'9 white boys in his prime.

Bill Russell, Lew Alcindor, Walt Bellamy, Jerry Lucas, Nate Thurmond, or Wes Unseld? Sure he sometimes got matchups with 6'9" guys like Bob Pettit but look at the shit trotted out in todays NBA. Humphries, Stiemsma, Bonner and all other manner of utter trash has started at the 5 in the NBA. Big man talent is shit and has been for quite some time.

Before Chamberlain teamed with Greer, teams were constantly parading guards to double hard on him. Rebounding became beat the shit out of Wilt time. Mind you this isn't modern pussyball. Hacks, bumps, shoves and the like were tolerated. He wasn't given the Shaq treatment where he was allowed to bowl people over and slam it. Quite the contrary as he was treated much like Rasheed Wallace if even that well. He scored with finger rolls, hooks, and a turnaround jumper to compensate. He was the greatest rebounder in history by far despite that shit.

This notion that Chamberlain was playing with a stacked deck is not accurate.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

1 Wilt
2 MJ
3 Magic
4 Robertson
5 Jabbar
6 Duncan
7 James
8 Bird
9 O'Neal
10 Olajuwon

[AchillesHeel]

Kobe is a lock.

For the 11th best player of all-time as things stand. James has already removed him from the top 10, tbh.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan (moves up to 5 with a ring this year)
7. Russell
8. James (moves up to 3 or 4 with a ring this year)
9. Big O
10. Hakeem


You are so cute! Big O was a stat padder & a career loser, who was carried to his only title in a weak era by Kareem.

[irishock]

Kobe should be contending with Dirk in the top 13

[KaiRMD1]

Simmons is still a little butthurt about the fact that the Spurs got Duncan the year the Celtics were supposed to get him.

[Cry Havoc]

You are so cute! Big O was a stat padder & a career loser, who was carried to his only title in a weak era by Kareem.

Right you are. And since he's exactly like Kobe with better stats (and less of a bitch), Oscar gets the nod.

[Cry Havoc]

Bill Russell, Lew Alcindor, Walt Bellamy, Jerry Lucas, Nate Thurmond, or Wes Unseld? Sure he sometimes got matchups with 6'9" guys like Bob Pettit but look at the shit trotted out in todays NBA. Humphries, Stiemsma, Bonner and all other manner of utter trash has started at the 5 in the NBA. Big man talent is shit and has been for quite some time.

Before Chamberlain teamed with Greer, teams were constantly parading guards to double hard on him. Rebounding became beat the shit out of Wilt time. Mind you this isn't modern pussyball. Hacks, bumps, shoves and the like were tolerated. He wasn't given the Shaq treatment where he was allowed to bowl people over and slam it. Quite the contrary as he was treated much like Rasheed Wallace if even that well. He scored with finger rolls, hooks, and a turnaround jumper to compensate. He was the greatest rebounder in history by far despite that shit.

This notion that Chamberlain was playing with a stacked deck is not accurate.

Not that I disagree with much of your post here, but it's worth noting that Rodman has a higher rebound rate than wilt, and it's a decent margin, to boot.

[ezau]

Bill Russell, Lew Alcindor, Walt Bellamy, Jerry Lucas, Nate Thurmond, or Wes Unseld? Sure he sometimes got matchups with 6'9" guys like Bob Pettit but look at the shit trotted out in todays NBA. Humphries, Stiemsma, Bonner and all other manner of utter trash has started at the 5 in the NBA. Big man talent is shit and has been for quite some time.

Before Chamberlain teamed with Greer, teams were constantly parading guards to double hard on him. Rebounding became beat the shit out of Wilt time. Mind you this isn't modern pussyball. Hacks, bumps, shoves and the like were tolerated. He wasn't given the Shaq treatment where he was allowed to bowl people over and slam it. Quite the contrary as he was treated much like Rasheed Wallace if even that well. He scored with finger rolls, hooks, and a turnaround jumper to compensate. He was the greatest rebounder in history by far despite that shit.

This notion that Chamberlain was playing with a stacked deck is not accurate.

Good post, but, come on man, Bill Russell? Not to disrespect him, but he would get totally exposed in today's NBA. I'd put the likes of Duncan, Robinson, Shaq, Jabbar, and Olajuwon as far as big men are concerned ahead of Wilt.

[spurraider21]

:lol ppl calling Robertson a stat padder as if they watched him play

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Kobe
7. Shaq
8. West
9. Oscar
10. Duncan
11. Mikan
12. Wilt
13. Hakeem
14. Lebron
15. Pettit/Baylor/Dr J/Moses

tbh

[spurraider21]

:lmao hakeem 13

...among other things, namely your entire list

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lmao hakeem 13

...among other things, namely your entire list
Hakeem has no case over the guys I listed maybe except for Mikan because of the era.

[spurraider21]

what makes West better than hakeem, tbh :lol

or duncan for that matter. inb4 west's free throw %

[scanry]

:lol

Cool, so you do value the fact he ranked Kobe # 8 on the All time list?

Above Shaq and Olajuwon? :lol


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

Swap Magic with Russel and Big O with Shaq and that list looks pretty good tbh.

You cannot overlook Shaq's work ethic. That alone should go against his ranking.

[scanry]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Kobe
7. Shaq
8. West
9. Oscar
10. Duncan
11. Mikan
12. Wilt
13. Hakeem
14. Lebron
15. Pettit/Baylor/Dr J/Moses

tbh

DB i think it's safe to say that Timmy has surpassed the Piano Mamba tbh. Don't even get me started on Shaq.

[Deuce Bigalow]

9 NBA Finals
37.9 ppg in '69 Finals earning FMVP in a loss
10 All-NBA First teams
4 2nd place MVP finishes
8 top 5 MVP finishes
scoring title
assist title
most points in finals history
most 30-point games in finals history
most 30 ppg finals series
highest single playoff series scoring average
led playoffs in scoring 3 times
led playoffs in assists per game 3 times

[scanry]

:lol ppl calling Robertson a stat padder as if they watched him play

Son D Rob did stat pad his way to the scoring title.

He's like a rich man version of Dwight Howard. Ain't goin cut it as the first option and sub par low post game.

[Deuce Bigalow]

West's playoff stats: 29-6-6 (47/81)
Finals stats: 31-5-5 (46/83)

Dude was a playoff beast. There's a reason why he was called Mr. Clutch.

[spurraider21]

Son D Rob did stat pad his way to the scoring title.

He's like a rich man version of Dwight Howard. Ain't goin cut it as the first option and sub par low post game.
Robertson =/= David Robinson

[spurraider21]

West's playoff stats: 29-6-6 (47/81)
Finals stats: 31-5-5 (46/83)

Dude was a playoff beast. There's a reason why he was called Mr. Clutch.
why is west ahead of wilt?

[Deuce Bigalow]

why is west ahead of wilt?
I value the postseason the most and West was the better playoff performer and especially in the Finals. But Wilt was such a good regular season player making him probably the greatest if we ignore playoffs/finals.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Robertson =/= David Robinson
Nah

Big O playoffs stats before being past his prime in Milwaukee ('62-'67): 30-9-9 on 46/87

Game 7 '63 EDF vs Boston: 43-6-6 on 11/24, 21/22

EDIT: Thought you meant he was like D-Rob in the playoffs nvm

[spurraider21]

scanry responded to my oscar robertson post with stuff about david robinson, i was just pointing out we're talking about different people

[spurraider21]

i dont know how people pretend to be able to evaluate players they never watched... just using basketballreference would make people believe KG > Duncan

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not that I disagree with much of your post here, but it's worth noting that Rodman has a higher rebound rate than wilt, and it's a decent margin, to boot.

Rebounding rate didn't begin to be calculated until 70-71 so you only get TOSB Wilt who took a reduced role with the Lakers with those numbers. They do have rebounding totals though.

Rodman's greatest year was 1991 when he grabbed 1530 rebounds.

Chamberlain's was in 1961 where he grabbed 2149. He grabbed over 1900 rebounds 7 times and above 1530 rebounds, Rodman's best, 12 times.

The denominator on the efficiency stats is possessions and I don't think there were 40% more possessions in 1961.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are so cute! Big O was a stat padder & a career loser, who was carried to his only title in a weak era by Kareem.

As someone else pointed out, you never watched Robertson play. He was the first big guard and a tremendous rebounder. The Royals had some good years when they had Lucas and Robertson they just lost to the Celtics like everyone else did.

Milwaukee traded for Robertson because Jabbar was not getting it done. Just like he didn't get it done after Robertson left through the ABA talent poor era.

[Thread]

Bill is still mighty flat eared over '10. He had to sit there in Staples and take that. He was banking on a new front for his Celtics, a new domination of the old.

Uh, uh.

[midnightpulp]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Kobe
7. Shaq
8. West
9. Oscar
10. Duncan
11. Mikan
12. Wilt
13. Hakeem
14. Lebron
15. Pettit/Baylor/Dr J/Moses

tbh

Not surprised the worst all-time list I've ever seen comes from Deuce.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good post, but, come on man, Bill Russell? Not to disrespect him, but he would get totally exposed in today's NBA. I'd put the likes of Duncan, Robinson, Shaq, Jabbar, and Olajuwon as far as big men are concerned ahead of Wilt.

Exposed by Vucevic? Marc Gasol was All NBA first team. Dwight Howard? I don't buy that Bill Russell couldn't do just fine. I don't have him in my top 10 all time though.

I think you massively underrate Chamberlain.

You obviously discount all the scoring titles and rebounding titles. Career averages and career totals. I can give credence to Jabbar being the championships and scoring total but the rest is absurd.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I value the postseason the most and West was the better playoff performer and especially in the Finals. But Wilt was such a good regular season player making him probably the greatest if we ignore playoffs/finals.

Chamberlain averaged 35 points and 26 rebounds in the playoffs with Philadelphia. He won a championship there with the only team of the era to beat the Celtics.

How many did West win in that time period? None. It wasn't until proven champion Chamberlain was brought in that he was able to hoist the trophy.

[ambchang]

I value the postseason the most and West was the better playoff performer and especially in the Finals. But Wilt was such a good regular season player making him probably the greatest if we ignore playoffs/finals.

So why would Kobe be on the list? 25% shooting in Game 7 a mark of dominance for you?

[Killakobe81]

Much ado about nothing dude is a good writer has his biases no need to get upset over a shitty TV analyst ...

[scanry]

Robertson =/= David Robinson

My bad raid.

[scanry]

Much ado about nothing dude is a good writer has his biases no need to get upset over a shitty TV analyst ...

Exactly. Boston homer through and through but he's a great writer. My favorite writers were Jack Mccullam and David Halbestein.

We had this Spurs beat writer (I forgot his name) who used to write for the express news. Yahoo snatched him away and we haven't seen him since then.

[Cry Havoc]

Good post, but, come on man, Bill Russell? Not to disrespect him, but he would get totally exposed in today's NBA. I'd put the likes of Duncan, Robinson, Shaq, Jabbar, and Olajuwon as far as big men are concerned ahead of Wilt.

pivrE_mqmhs

Yeah, he's completely unathletic and couldn't handle today's bigs. lol

[ambchang]

People really have to see Wilt and Russell during their peak, it's a shame that there weren't more archived games from that era.

Sure, the average player in today's game is likely more athletic, or even more skilled, than players in those era, but the cream of the crop were plenty athletic back then and now.

Just look at it this way, Russell and Wilt battled it out, Wilt even held his own during the later part of his career against a young Kareem, and an old Kareem was all-star level all the way to the late 80s, in the age of Ewing and Olajuwon, and Olajuwon battled a young Shaq and often had an upper hand.

Going by that chain of logic, Russell and Wilt would still be effective in today's game. They will probably not average 50 ppg and 25rpg because the game has slowed down, with more sophisticated offensive and defensive schemes, but Russell will still be a 15rpg/3 or 4 block/ 4 or 5 assist guy. He'd be like a Joakim Noah + prime Wallace on steroids kind of guy, someone who you can anchor your entire defense around while directing traffic on offense. Wilt will probably still be a 30/15/3 guy (Shaq level), or at least a 25/12/3 guy. That is of course, factoring in today's training and fitness regimen.

Of course, pure speculation, but from what I saw, their games will still be effective, if not dominant, in today's NBA.

[DPG21920]

Bill is still mighty flat eared over '10. He had to sit there in Staples and take that. He was banking on a new front for his Celtics, a new domination of the old.

Uh, uh.

How on Earth can you of all people say that when all that matters is ring count. By that logic, that's just the Celtics Titles > Lakers Titles talking.

[Killakobe81]

How on Earth can you of all people say that when all that matters is ring count. By that logic, that's just the Celtics Titles > Lakers Titles talking.

It is Celts>Lakers tough to argue otherwise.
But during my lifetime and (most of Bill's) Lakers have won more titles.
Sure I claim all 16 but the ones I did not "See" hold less value. Lakers have been >Celts in his lifetime and that must suck ...

[DPG21920]

That's bending the narrative to fit your reality. Thread has made it abundantly clear that total ring count is what matters. When comparing Celtics to Lakers and who's salty, the only thing boiled down is

Celtics>Lakers.

[313]

Why the fuck is Chimpman Wilt Chamberlain at # 6? Fucker played against 6'9 white boys in his prime.

With how small the league was, he played guys like Bill Russell all the time. He was playing HOF big men almost every night.

Lol @ repeating what you've read in YouTube comments

[DD]

Wow, even DPG is sacrificing workplace productivity to reach for low hanging fruit. That means somebody's investments/savings are just twisting in the wind right now:(

[Sybok]

That's bending the narrative to fit your reality. Thread has made it abundantly clear that total ring count is what matters. When comparing Celtics to Lakers and who's salty, the only thing boiled down is

Celtics>Lakers.

This is true, but the Lakers were right there.... they had it and gave it back. Then to add insult to injury, 9 or 10 of those Celtic titles belong to the Lakers, but the Lakers were feeling generous.

[AaronY]

:lol ppl calling Robertson a stat padder as if they watched him play
ya. lotsa 17 year old 1960s B-Ball experts around here

[DAF86]

:lol

Cool, so you do value the fact he ranked Kobe # 8 on the All time list?

Above Shaq and Olajuwon? :lol


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

I said I value his opinion more than yours, I didn't say I value his opinion very high, tbh.

[scanry]

That's bending the narrative to fit your reality. Thread has made it abundantly clear that total ring count is what matters. When comparing Celtics to Lakers and who's salty, the only thing boiled down is

Celtics>Lakers.

Why would he be butthurt when Boston has 6 more titles than LA? The parrot has been getting his own stickh pushed in by CN lately.

[scanry]

Wow, even DPG is sacrificing workplace productivity to reach for low hanging fruit. That means somebody's investments/savings are just twisting in the wind right now:(

I think Dale has kind of touched a nerve for DPG to go for the kill. Dale is down and i don't know if he'll last another week considering Capri's & Luva's absence.

[scanry]

This is true, but the Lakers were right there.... they had it and gave it back. Then to add insult to injury, 9 or 10 of those Celtic titles belong to the Lakers, but the Lakers were feeling generous.

Surely you're not DMC right?

[Clipper Nation]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Kobe
7. Shaq
8. West
9. Oscar
10. Duncan
11. Mikan
12. Wilt
13. Hakeem
14. Lebron
15. Pettit/Baylor/Dr J/Moses

tbh
:lmao Tired Old Quitbag ranked over Shaq, West, Oscar, Duncan, Mikan, Wilt, Hakeem, LeBron, Pettit, Baylor, Dr. J and Moses

[Thread]

How on Earth can you of all people say that when all that matters is ring count. By that logic, that's just the Celtics Titles > Lakers Titles talking.

Weird, isn't it? You need to talk to Bill, not me.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Chamberlain averaged 35 points and 26 rebounds in the playoffs with Philadelphia. He won a championship there with the only team of the era to beat the Celtics.

How many did West win in that time period? None. It wasn't until proven champion Chamberlain was brought in that he was able to hoist the trophy.
Chamberlain WILTED come playoff time. Every year his scoring went down in the playoffs, literally every year. 50 ppg season? Averaged only 35 in the playoffs. His teams didn't win a ring until he wasn't the guy taking the most shots on the team.

West may not have won but he at least played well. And that you for bringing up Wilt joining the Lakers.

1969 NBA Finals
West - 37.9 ppg
wilt - 11.7 ppg (20.5 ppg in the regular season) a -8.8 ppg drop which is the 2nd largest ppg drop off from regular season to finals ppg to Lebron's -8.9 in 2011.

Wilt's coach when given the info that Wilt could return late in Game 7 - "We don't need him" lol

Give me West if I'm looking to win championships, not choke them away.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So why would Kobe be on the list? 25% shooting in Game 7 a mark of dominance for you?
Since you want to cherrypick...Kobe's mark of dominance came during the 01 WCF to the tune of 33.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.5 apg, 0.8 bpg, 51.4%fg, 35.7%3p, 57.1%ts which his team swept and gave the opposition the largest average series loss margin in conference finals history.

[baseline bum]

There's a reason why he was called Mr. Clutch.

For winning a lone title in a weak era?

[baseline bum]

Fucking Mikan at 11 is count to potato stupid when he was basically Kurt Rambis.

[ambchang]

Since you want to cherrypick...Kobe's mark of dominance came during the 01 WCF to the tune of 33.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.5 apg, 0.8 bpg, 51.4%fg, 35.7%3p, 57.1%ts which his team swept and gave the opposition the largest average series loss margin in conference finals history.

LOL, his best series (one btw, not like West where he performed well throughout his entire playoff career) came as a 2nd banana while being guarded by a team with the entire defense focused on Shaq. To give an example of how much the Spurs were focusing on Shaq:

Derek Fisher averaged 17.5 ppg on 61.4% FG shooting when he was averaging 11.5ppg that season, and only had a 13.3 ppg career high.

BTW, since you love to quote West's Finals stats, care to quote Kobe's?

[Killakobe81]

Wow, even DPG is sacrificing workplace productivity to reach for low hanging fruit. That means somebody's investments/savings are just twisting in the wind right now:(

DD with the goods

[Deuce Bigalow]

LOL, his best series (one btw, not like West where he performed well throughout his entire playoff career) came as a 2nd banana while being guarded by a team with the entire defense focused on Shaq. To give an example of how much the Spurs were focusing on Shaq:

Derek Fisher averaged 17.5 ppg on 61.4% FG shooting when he was averaging 11.5ppg that season, and only had a 13.3 ppg career high.

BTW, since you love to quote West's Finals stats, care to quote Kobe's?
Kobe's best series was probably the 2010 WCF: 34-7-8 on 52/43/88

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

How can you not have Shaq in your Top 10 and put Big O in it?:lol

srs? he averaged a triple double for like 5 years

[Deuce Bigalow]

Fucking Mikan at 11 is count to potato stupid when he was basically Kurt Rambis.
5 titles. There were no MVPs or FMVPs in his prime though unless he would have 5 FMVPs and at least multiple MVPs, and he was a 2x scoring champ.

[baseline bum]

5 titles. There were no MVPs or FMVPs in his prime though unless he would have 5 FMVPs and at least multiple MVPs, and he was a 2x scoring champ.

You should put Kurt Rambis 10 or 12.

[Deuce Bigalow]

For winning a lone title in a weak era?
Highest Finals series PPG

Michael Jordan, 1993 Finals - 41.0
Rick Barry, 1967 Finals - 40.8
Elgin Baylor, 1962 Finals - 40.6
Shaquille O'Neal, 2000 Finals - 38.0
Jerry West, 1969 Finals - 37.9
Shaquille O'Neal, 2002 Finals - 36.3
Michael Jordan, 1992 Finals - 35.8
Allen Iverson, 2001 Finals - 35.6
Dwyane Wade, 2006 Finals - 34.7
Jerry West, 1966 Finals - 33.9
Elgin Baylor, 1963 Finals - 33.8
Jerry West, 1965 Finals - 33.8
Michael Jordan, 1998 Finals - 33.5
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980 Finals - 33.4
Shaquille O'Neal, 2001 Finals - 33.0
Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995 Finals - 32.8
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1974 Finals - 32.6
Kobe Bryant, 2009 Finals - 32.4
Michael Jordan, 1997 Finals - 32.3
George Mikan, 1950 Finals - 32.2
Jerry West, 1968 Finals - 31.3
Jerry West, 1970 Finals - 31.3
Michael Jordan, 1991 Finals - 31.2
Jerry West, 1962 Finals - 31.1
Kevin Durant, 2012 Finals - 30.6
Julius Erving, 1977 Finals - 30.3
Bob Pettit, 1957 Finals - 30.130 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 109
Kobe Bryant -- 88
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 75
Jerry West -- 74
Lebron James -- 61
Elgin Baylor -- 60
Shaquille O'Neal -- 55
Karl Malone -- 54
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 53
Rick Barry -- 48
Dirk Nowitzki -- 45
Larry Bird -- 43
Wilt Chamberlain -- 42
Allen Iverson -- 36
Tim Duncan -- 36
Bob Pettit -- 33
George Gervin -- 32
Dwyane Wade -- 32
John Havlicek -- 30
Reggie Miller -- 29
Charles Barkley - 28
Rick Barry -- 27
George Gervin -- 26
Oscar Robertson -- 23
40 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Lebron James -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5
50 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1
30 point games (Finals)

Jerry West -- 31
Michael Jordan -- 23
Elgin Baylor -- 19
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 16
Shaquille O'Neal -- 16
Bob Pettit -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Rick Barry -- 8
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 8
John Havlicek -- 8
Sam Jones -- 8
George Mikan -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
Larry Bird -- 5
Julius Erving -- 5
James Worthy -- 5
Tom Heinsohn -- 5
Cliff Hagan -- 5
Lebron James -- 5
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 4
Clyde Drexler -- 4
Tim Duncan -- 4
40 point games (Finals)

Jerry West -- 10
Michael Jordan -- 6
Shaquille O'Neal -- 5
Elgin Baylor -- 5
Rick Barry -- 3
George Mikan -- 2
Dwyane Wade -- 2
Bob Pettit -- 2
John Havlicek -- 2
Allen Iverson -- 1
Wilt Chamberlain -- 1
Isiah Thomas -- 1
Magic Johnson -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Russell Westbrook -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 1
Cliff Hagan -- 1
James Worthy -- 1
Julius Erving -- 1
50 point games (Finals)

Elgin Baylor -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
Michael Jordan -- 1
Jerry West -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Career Playoff PPG

1. Michael Jordan* 33.45
2. Allen Iverson 29.73
3. Jerry West* 29.13
4. Kevin Durant 28.63
5. LeBron James 28.05
6. Elgin Baylor* 27.04
7. George Gervin* 26.98
8. Dirk Nowitzki 25.95
9. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.90
10. Carmelo Anthony 25.65
11. Kobe Bryant 25.64
12. Bob Pettit* 25.45
13. Dominique Wilkins* 25.41
14. Rick Barry* 24.77
15. Karl Malone* 24.67
Career Finals PPG (Min. 10 games)

1. Rick Barry - 36.3
2. Michael Jordan - 33.6
3. Jerry West - 30.5
4. Shaquille O'Neal - 28.8
5. Bob Pettit - 28.4
6. Hakeem Olajuwon - 28.0
7. Elgin Baylor - 26.4
8. Dwyane Wade - 25.7
9. Julius Erving - 25.5
10. Kobe Bryant - 25.3
11. Joe Fulks - 24.7
12. Clyde Drexler - 24.5
13. Dirk Nowitzki - 24.4
14. George Mikan - 23.9
15. Moses Malone - 23.6

[Deuce Bigalow]

You should put Kurt Rambis 10 or 12.
Was Rambis the greatest player of his era?

[Clipper Nation]

Highest Finals series PPG
30 point games (Playoffs)

40 point games (Playoffs)

50 point games (Playoffs)

30 point games (Finals)

40 point games (Finals)

50 point games (Finals)

Career Playoff PPG

Career Finals PPG (Min. 10 games)
If that was LeBron or Duncan with all those playoff stats but only one ring, you and the rest of the Kirbytards would be shitting on them :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

If that was LeBron or Duncan with all those playoff stats but only one ring, you and the rest of the Kirbytards would be shitting on them :lol
I'm defending him here though because he actually played dominant in losses unlike Bran in '07 or '11.

[Michael Jordan.]

Hakeem has no case over the guys I listed maybe except for Mikan because of the era.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kUXK6azldF0/UE5YveZFI7I/AAAAAAAACy8/xBXs1gccHFA/s1600/crazy-laughter.jpg

[baseline bum]

Was Rambis the greatest player of his era?

How many scoring titles and championships do you think Zydrunas Ilgauskas would have won in Mikan's era?

[MeloHype]

446705175357440001

[Floyd Pacquiao]

I'm defending him here though because he actually played dominant in losses unlike Bran in '07 or '11.
What about kobe in his playoff losses in 98, 99, 03, 04, 06, 08, 11, 12? didn't he go out like a scrub in a few of tho's?

[Deuce Bigalow]

What about kobe in his playoff losses in 98, 99, 03, 04, 06, 08, 11, 12? didn't he go out like a scrub in a few of tho's?
Yeah but he has 5 rings though.

[Michael Jordan.]

I'm defending him here though because he actually played dominant in losses unlike Bran in '07 or '11.

No, Kobe's stats in elimination games and in the finals are flat out embarrassing.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Yeah but he has 5 rings though.
Steve Kerr too

[Deuce Bigalow]

Steve Kerr too
Ok?

[Raven]

Kobe is a lock.

For the 11th best player of all-time as things stand. James has already removed him from the top 10, tbh.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan (moves up to 5 with a ring this year)
7. Russell
8. James (moves up to 3 or 4 with a ring this year)
9. Big O
10. Hakeem

solid list.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Chamberlain WILTED come playoff time. Every year his scoring went down in the playoffs, literally every year. 50 ppg season? Averaged only 35 in the playoffs. His teams didn't win a ring until he wasn't the guy taking the most shots on the team.

West may not have won but he at least played well. And that you for bringing up Wilt joining the Lakers.

1969 NBA Finals
West - 37.9 ppg
wilt - 11.7 ppg (20.5 ppg in the regular season) a -8.8 ppg drop which is the 2nd largest ppg drop off from regular season to finals ppg to Lebron's -8.9 in 2011.

Wilt's coach when given the info that Wilt could return late in Game 7 - "We don't need him" lol

Give me West if I'm looking to win championships, not choke them away.

This is stupid. Chamberlain led the 76ers in scoring in 67 for his first title. Lakers lost to the Celtics in 69 and Chamberlain was hurt

k8Ckph1tMNU

You're sotrting stats and cherrypicking how cute. West played like shit in the playoffs for the 71 championship and anyone who watched that year knows it was Chamberlains work against Alcindor in the WCF that was the lynchpin.

Chamberlain gets hurt and West once again shows his beta. West was shooting 45% and volume scoring doesn't get it done. 'Wilt's coach' Van Der Berk got canned. It is what it is.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is stupid. Chamberlain led the 76ers in scoring in 67. Lakers lost to the Celtics in 69 and Chamberlain was hurt

k8Ckph1tMNU

You're sotrting stats and cherrypicking how cute.

Chamberlain gets hurt and West once again shows his beta. West was shooting 45% and volume scoring doesn't get it done. 'Wilt's coach' Van Der Berk got canned. It is what it is.
Not in the playoffs, he was the third leading scorer.

West shot 49.0%FG and 83.9%FT for the series which is as efficient as you can get. And he averaged 37.9 ppg and 7.4 apg lmao what more can he do.

Wilt shot 37.5% from the line. He was not that efficient as you think. His playoff career TS% is a measly 52.4% because he only shot 46.5% from the line.

BTW the Lakers went on a 8-0 run right after Wilt left. West finished with 42/13/12 on 14-29 fg, 14-18 ft.

[DD]

:lolFuzzy getting bodied

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not in the playoffs, he was the third leading scorer.

West shot 49.0%FG and 83.9%FT for the series which is as efficient as you can get. And he averaged 37.9 ppg and 7.4 apg lmao what more can he do.

Wilt shot 37.5% from the line. He was not that efficient as you think. His playoff career TS% is a measly 52.4% because he only shot 46.5% from the line.

BTW the Lakers went on a 8-0 run right after Wilt left. West finished with 42/13/12 on 14-29 fg, 14-18 ft.

Chamberlain was an awful FT shooter bravo for your insight. . . :rolleyes In other news West was a mediocre rebounder and man defender.

BTW the Lakers lost after Wilt hurt his knee. VDB got fired but by all means grandstand on 6 possessions. Wilt was the greatest defensive presence in NBA history.

Further, you fixation on finals is unfounded. West made it to the finals and lost to the Celtics a lot. I am not a fan of the term but crowing about stats in losing efforts is the epitome of stat padding. 42/13/12 doesn't mean quite so much when you are losing over 60% of the time.

Baylor was there for the majority of his career. West never had to carry a team nor did he suffer the constant double and triple teams. They still couldn't win. It was Chamberlain and Greer that finally beat those Celtics teams over 5 games in 1967.

One thing that strikes me is your ignorance tot he evolution of Chamberlain's game. Early on in his career he would plow into the face of those double and triple teams. He shot a poor percentage around 50% but dominated the offensive boards and went to the stripe 15+ times a game.

He was getting to 7 games with the Celtics but they lost like 3 years in a row. He grew frustrated and evolved his game. By 1967, his apg was up to 8. 8 assists for a C is unbelievable, he stepped it up to 9 apg those playoffs. He shot 68% from the field. Truly masterful.

Keep on fellating the white boy and his losing efforts.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lolFuzzy getting bodied

I am sure if you ask him nicely he will say yes. You don't need to go through all of this. It's embarrassing.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For people to come up with their own objective thoughts on Chamberlain's game I present:

2eNdapKU494

It's a montage of 335 baskets made by Chamberlain. They are divided into dunks, left block, right block etc. You can see the gambit of post moves Wilt had. Keep in mind that it's Jabbar, Russell, Unseld, Reed, Lucas, etc that are getting help on those double and triple teams. It was not the sea of 6'8'" whitey.

Compare that to what you see from guys like Dwert, Gasol, or Duncan.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Chamberlain was an awful FT shooter bravo for your insight. . . :rolleyes In other news West was a mediocre rebounder and man defender.

BTW the Lakers lost after Wilt hurt his knee. VDB got fired but by all means grandstand on 6 possessions. Wilt was the greatest defensive presence in NBA history.

Further, you fixation on finals is unfounded. West made it to the finals and lost to the Celtics a lot. I am not a fan of the term but crowing about stats in losing efforts is the epitome of stat padding. 42/13/12 doesn't mean quite so much when you are losing over 60% of the time.

Baylor was there for the majority of his career. West never had to carry a team nor did he suffer the constant double and triple teams. They still couldn't win. It was Chamberlain and Greer that finally beat those Celtics teams over 5 games in 1967.

One thing that strikes me is your ignorance tot he evolution of Chamberlain's game. Early on in his career he would plow into the face of those double and triple teams. He shot a poor percentage around 50% but dominated the offensive boards and went to the stripe 15+ times a game.

He was getting to 7 games with the Celtics but they lost like 3 years in a row. He grew frustrated and evolved his game. By 1967, his apg was up to 8. 8 assists for a C is unbelievable, he stepped it up to 9 apg those playoffs. He shot 68% from the field. Truly masterful.

Keep on fellating the white boy and his losing efforts.
West was regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders ever so I dont know where you got the poor man defender thing.

How is it statpadding if its a)the NBA Finals b)vs the best team of the entire decade Boston c)Games where close d)Series went to 7 games meaning his team won 3 games, and West played in a 7th game in the Finals 3 times.

Wilt's stats would dip down come playoff time and he was capable of doing more, I mean he was averaging something like 40 ppg in the regular season. Actually 39.9 ppg to be exact in his scoring prime up until '66, but what did he average in the playoffs during this time? 32.3 ppg, a -7.6 ppg drop.

I want the player that was known as "Mr Clutch" in the playoffs please.

[StrengthAndHonor]

No, Kobe's stats in the finals are flat out embarrassing.
And Lebron fared better?:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

West was regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders ever so I dont know where you got the poor man defender thing.

How is it statpadding if its a)the NBA Finals b)vs the best team of the entire decade Boston c)Games where close d)Series went to 7 games meaning his team won 3 games, and West played in a 7th game in the Finals 3 times.

Wilt's stats would dip down come playoff time and he was capable of doing more, I mean he was averaging something like 40 ppg in the regular season. Actually 39.9 ppg to be exact in his scoring prime up until '66, but what did he average in the playoffs during this time? 32.3 ppg, a -7.6 ppg drop.

I want the player that was known as "Mr Clutch" in the playoffs please.

West was a heady ball player that understood what teams were trying to do so he was good at help and deflections. Tremendous jump shooter. I said man defender intentionally as he was not very athletic and could be abused.

West went to the Finals 9 times and lost 8 times. He went 20-33. That is 36%. He managed to win 3 games twice and that was it outside of beating the Knicks 4-1. It was not close. He never beat the Celtics as did the 76ers. Now you are just making shit up to go with the stat padding.

[spurraider21]

:lol www.basketballreference.com experts

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol www.basketballreference.com experts

I used to watch a ton of vintage NBA in summer camps when I was a kid. I would get dropped off early and it was always playing in the auditorium. My father was a big Knicks fan around that time as my uncles were Lakers fans. I get my takes from there and use reference when I want specifics.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For people to come up with their own objective thoughts on Chamberlain's game I present:

2eNdapKU494

It's a montage of 335 baskets made by Chamberlain. They are divided into dunks, left block, right block etc. You can see the gambit of post moves Wilt had. Keep in mind that it's Jabbar, Russell, Unseld, Reed, Lucas, etc that are getting help on those double and triple teams. It was not the sea of 6'8'" whitey.

Compare that to what you see from guys like Dwert, Gasol, or Duncan.


:lol www.basketballreference.com experts

The montage. Its every made basket from a sample of games. Footage in the early 60s is especially sparse but it gives yo a great idea as to his game. The rebounding portion is particularly impressive.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1962, 69, 70 finals went to 7 games so I didnt make anything up, that's 3 series, and his best one came in the closest one he came winning to in '69 where some statpadder ending up dropping the 5th highest finals series ppg of alltime.

[ambchang]

Kobe's best series was probably the 2010 WCF: 34-7-8 on 52/43/88

Yeah. He seems to do much better with a dominant big drawing all the defensive attention.

[AaronY]

Highest Finals series PPG
30 point games (Playoffs)

40 point games (Playoffs)

50 point games (Playoffs)

30 point games (Finals)

40 point games (Finals)

50 point games (Finals)

Career Playoff PPG

Career Finals PPG (Min. 10 games)
And tied with Antoine Walker for titles with one

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yeah. He seems to do much better with a dominant big drawing all the defensive attention.
That big was so dominant that series that some 6-6 guard grabbed the same amount of rebounds...

[Deuce Bigalow]

And tied with Antoine Walker for titles with one
So title count is all that matters? These spurfans...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Deuce doesn't understand that stat padding is getting big stats and still losing. Jerry West is perhaps the greatest stat padder of all time under that definition. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing. 9 finals. Lost 2 out of three games and only a single title.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So title count is all that matters? These spurfans...

Your the one saying that you value playoffs most. He lost 2/3 of his finals games. That is terrible.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

L2U4JSrpO78

Around the 4:20 mark Jerry West says that Chamberlain was the team leader and the one everyone looked up to. Even West himself knew who the man was.

[ezau]

With how small the league was, he played guys like Bill Russell all the time. He was playing HOF big men almost every night.

Lol @ repeating what you've read in YouTube comments

lol putting Bill Russell in a pedestal. You mustn't have watched Olajuwon or Shaq in their prime:lol

[ezau]

Exposed by Vucevic? Marc Gasol was All NBA first team. Dwight Howard? I don't buy that Bill Russell couldn't do just fine. I don't have him in my top 10 all time though.

I think you massively underrate Chamberlain.

You obviously discount all the scoring titles and rebounding titles. Career averages and career totals. I can give credence to Jabbar being the championships and scoring total but the rest is absurd.

Let's get real here. Wilt dominated when only Europe and America knew how to play basketball. Put a prime Shaq, Olajuwon, or Duncan on Wilt and let's see if he's going to put up the same numbers.

[ezau]

People really have to see Wilt and Russell during their peak, it's a shame that there weren't more archived games from that era.

Sure, the average player in today's game is likely more athletic, or even more skilled, than players in those era, but the cream of the crop were plenty athletic back then and now.

Just look at it this way, Russell and Wilt battled it out, Wilt even held his own during the later part of his career against a young Kareem, and an old Kareem was all-star level all the way to the late 80s, in the age of Ewing and Olajuwon, and Olajuwon battled a young Shaq and often had an upper hand.

Going by that chain of logic, Russell and Wilt would still be effective in today's game. They will probably not average 50 ppg and 25rpg because the game has slowed down, with more sophisticated offensive and defensive schemes, but Russell will still be a 15rpg/3 or 4 block/ 4 or 5 assist guy. He'd be like a Joakim Noah + prime Wallace on steroids kind of guy, someone who you can anchor your entire defense around while directing traffic on offense. Wilt will probably still be a 30/15/3 guy (Shaq level), or at least a 25/12/3 guy. That is of course, factoring in today's training and fitness regimen.

Of course, pure speculation, but from what I saw, their games will still be effective, if not dominant, in today's NBA.

People here are massively overrating Russell. He dominated when the league was small and when players still had to maintain day jobs just to make ends meet. Russell would be solid in today's NBA but he wouldn't be as successful. It's more difficult to be successful in today's NBA because of the sheer competition both in and out of the US.

[ezau]

Since you want to cherrypick...Kobe's mark of dominance came during the 01 WCF to the tune of 33.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.5 apg, 0.8 bpg, 51.4%fg, 35.7%3p, 57.1%ts which his team swept and gave the opposition the largest average series loss margin in conference finals history.

The Spurs had to get Bruce Bowen just to contain a prime Kobe. Looking back, I would pick Kobe over Russell and Wilt if I'm going to build a team in the 60s. It's a no-brainer, tbh.

[ezau]

For people to come up with their own objective thoughts on Chamberlain's game I present:

2eNdapKU494

It's a montage of 335 baskets made by Chamberlain. They are divided into dunks, left block, right block etc. You can see the gambit of post moves Wilt had. Keep in mind that it's Jabbar, Russell, Unseld, Reed, Lucas, etc that are getting help on those double and triple teams. It was not the sea of 6'8'" whitey.

Compare that to what you see from guys like Dwert, Gasol, or Duncan.

From this video alone, Wilt's 'post' game consisted of jumping over everyone and dunking the ball. Wilt's footwork is so atrocious to say the least.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let's get real here. Wilt dominated when only Europe and America knew how to play basketball. Put a prime Shaq, Olajuwon, or Duncan on Wilt and let's see if he's going to put up the same numbers.

I think you need to get real about the quality of big men in the NBA. There has never been more than a handful of quality 7 footers at any one time. Sure Olajuwon had to play Robinson but there was also Ostertagg and a whole bunch of guys undersized for the position. Shaq beat up on guys like Chris Dudley and Shawn Bradley.

1967 Wilt would be the MVP of the current NBA. 2001 Shaq 2005 Duncan 1995 Olajuwon would have all been pushed around. Olajuwon and Duncan would have used quickness to get their shot off but both would not have been able to keep Chamberlain from getting down low and they would not have been able to stop his shots. They would have needed double team help like Jabbar, Unseld, Bellamy, etc.

Shaq would have struggled because Chamberlain was almost as big, much quicker and stronger. O'Neal's game was about pushing smaller players around. Lower the shoulder and ram. That shit wouldn't work against Chamberlain. O'Neal did not have exceptionally good footwork or ballhandling. He didn't have a jumpshot. If you are stronger than Shaq then you win. Watch that youtube I posted and look for the footage against Unseld. He ragdolls him several times. Shaq would have been destroyed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

From this video alone, Wilt's 'post' game consisted of jumping over everyone and dunking the ball. Wilt's footwork is so atrocious to say the least.

They showed the dunks first. As I said they divided it into sections and you didn't get to the second section. Keep watching.

[The Third Man]

I think Bill's doing ok. Stack up your life and his sometime.

[ambchang]

That big was so dominant that series that some 6-6 guard grabbed the same amount of rebounds...

Yeah. And some 6-6 guard couldn't do anything in the two playoffs he didn't have a domjnant big.

[ezau]

I think you need to get real about the quality of big men in the NBA. There has never been more than a handful of quality 7 footers at any one time. Sure Olajuwon had to play Robinson but there was also Ostertagg and a whole bunch of guys undersized for the position. Shaq beat up on guys like Chris Dudley and Shawn Bradley.

1967 Wilt would be the MVP of the current NBA. 2001 Shaq 2005 Duncan 1995 Olajuwon would have all been pushed around. Olajuwon and Duncan would have used quickness to get their shot off but both would not have been able to keep Chamberlain from getting down low and they would not have been able to stop his shots. They would have needed double team help like Jabbar, Unseld, Bellamy, etc.

Shaq would have struggled because Chamberlain was almost as big, much quicker and stronger. O'Neal's game was about pushing smaller players around. Lower the shoulder and ram. That shit wouldn't work against Chamberlain. O'Neal did not have exceptionally good footwork or ballhandling. He didn't have a jumpshot. If you are stronger than Shaq then you win. Watch that youtube I posted and look for the footage against Unseld. He ragdolls him several times. Shaq would have been destroyed.

Dude, I like your posts. They're well-written and crafted. But I had to laugh when you said that 2001 Shaq, 2005 Duncan, and 1995 Olajuwon would have been dominated by Wilt. Unseld was 6'7 on a good day. Russell, on the other hand, was 6'9, 230 lb. yet Wilt couldn't figure out a way to beat him. Shaq's size and athleticism for a 300-lb. man is unparalleled while Olajuwon and Duncan's quickness, intelligence, and skill level would've been too much for Wilt.

[Sybok]

It's short sighted to think players from 40 years ago could compete in today's NBA. They don't have the benefit of skills coaches and they didn't have themselves to look back on and improve upon. Their competition was weak compared to today's game. Sure it was rougher, but the difference between Wilt and most of his opponents, and Shaq and most of his, was heavily in Wilt's favor. Shaq would have destroyed the NBA.

College teams today would beat most NBA teams of that era.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dude, I like your posts. They're well-written and crafted. But I had to laugh when you said that 2001 Shaq, 2005 Duncan, and 1995 Olajuwon would have been dominated by Wilt. Unseld was 6'7 on a good day. Russell, on the other hand, was 6'9, 230 lb. yet Wilt couldn't figure out a way to beat him. Shaq's size and athleticism for a 300-lb. man is unparalleled while Olajuwon and Duncan's quickness, intelligence, and skill level would've been too much for Wilt.

That you say that Shaq's athleticism at that size is unparralleled but that doesn't make it true.

Chamberlain was 1" taller and 3" longer than O'Neal. O'Neal outweighed him by 30 pounds but had a lot more body fat. Chamberlain could jump higher. O'Neal only jumped 36" when he was drafted. Chamberlain could jump at least a foot more than that.

O'Neal is not a good side to side athlete. It's why he was awful playing the pnr even in his prime.

[ezau]

That you say that Shaq's athleticism at that size is unparralleled but that doesn't make it true.

Chamberlain was 1" taller and 3" longer than O'Neal. O'Neal outweighed him by 30 pounds but had a lot more body fat. Chamberlain could jump higher. O'Neal only jumped 36" when he was drafted. Chamberlain could jump at least a foot more than that.

O'Neal is not a good side to side athlete. It's why he was awful playing the pnr even in his prime.

Shaq had skills that no man of his size/weight had ever had. Wilt will most likely limit Shaq because he's a big man himself for stretches, but prime Shaq was too big, too strong, and too skilled for anyone to handle singlehandedly. You should know that because the prime Shaq repeatedly dominated the Duncan/DRob combo in the early 2000s.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That you say that Shaq's athleticism at that size is unparralleled but that doesn't make it true.

Chamberlain was 1" taller and 3" longer than O'Neal. O'Neal outweighed him by 30 pounds but had a lot more body fat. Chamberlain could jump higher. O'Neal only jumped 36" when he was drafted. Chamberlain could jump at least a foot more than that.

O'Neal is not a good side to side athlete. It's why he was awful playing the pnr even in his prime.
No

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Shaq had skills that no man of his size/weight had ever had. Wilt will most likely limit Shaq because he's a big man himself for stretches, but prime Shaq was too big, too strong, and too skilled for anyone to handle singlehandedly. You should know that because the prime Shaq repeatedly dominated the Duncan/DRob combo in the early 2000s.

What skills?

I know you are not talking about ball handling, pnr defense, or jump shooting. He had a hook shot with either hand and no one could keep him out of position down low. Robinson and Duncan were outweighed by 60 pounds so that strategy worked.

Chamberlain was of the same size as Shaq. He could press and lift more. He could jump higher. And lets be frank, Shaq was a mediocre defender with no midrange game.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No

Yes.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shaquille-O-neal-3796/

yDMCh5HrcG0

[ezau]

What skills?

I know you are not talking about ball handling, pnr defense, or jump shooting. He had a hook shot with either hand and no one could keep him out of position down low. Robinson and Duncan were outweighed by 60 pounds so that strategy worked.

Chamberlain was of the same size as Shaq. He could press and lift more. He could jump higher. And lets be frank, Shaq was a mediocre defender with no midrange game.

If Wilt couldn't even handle a reed-thin Kareem, what makes you think he could stop Shaq? The Big Diesel also delivered when it counts, which is something Wilt almost always failed to do. Wilt had a grand total of two rings, which is ridiculous considering the talent of bigs and the level of all-around play that time.

[Cry Havoc]

No

"In his early years Chamberlain was not interested in basketball, because he thought it was "a game for sissies".[11] Instead, he was an avid track and field athlete: as a youth, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 yards in 49.0 seconds and the 880 yards in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet."

"Chamberlain, who reportedly had a 50-inch vertical leap,[142] was physically capable of converting foul shots via a slam dunk without a running start (beginning his movement at the top of the key)."

Jumping 6 feet 6 inches is impressive no matter who you are. To do that as a youth is just crazy, especially back in those days. The world record at the time was just over 7 feet. Running a half mile in under two minutes is absolutely RIDICULOUS, regardless of the level of athlete you are. Consider that that's under a 4 minute mile pace. For a big man. Just what!? :lol

[ambchang]

People here are massively overrating Russell. He dominated when the league was small and when players still had to maintain day jobs just to make ends meet. Russell would be solid in today's NBA but he wouldn't be as successful. It's more difficult to be successful in today's NBA because of the sheer competition both in and out of the US.

If you were to use a time machine to teleport Russell into today's nba, then he'd probably struggle because of the advancements in coaching, strategy, training and medicine. But you can't judge a player by that because they were measured against their peers. Much like you can't say newton would be a dumbass in today's economy because he doesn't know how to use spreadsheets or Columbus can't navigate because he can't use a gps.

However, if Russell was born 40 years later, with all the changes and ground work that has taken place, he would still be a top nba player because of his vision, athletic ability aNd basketball iq.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shaquille-O-neal-3796/

yDMCh5HrcG0
His head never was at rim level. Wilt was 7'2", a 48" vert is 4 feet so the top of his head could reach 11'2"....lol. His entire head would be above the rim all the time with that vertical. You cant really believe this can you? Great I'm arguing with another crazy Wilt historian.

[Deuce Bigalow]

"In his early years Chamberlain was not interested in basketball, because he thought it was "a game for sissies".[11] Instead, he was an avid track and field athlete: as a youth, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 yards in 49.0 seconds and the 880 yards in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet."

"Chamberlain, who reportedly had a 50-inch vertical leap,[142] was physically capable of converting foul shots via a slam dunk without a running start (beginning his movement at the top of the key)."

Jumping 6 feet 6 inches is impressive no matter who you are. To do that as a youth is just crazy, especially back in those days. The world record at the time was just over 7 feet. Running a half mile in under two minutes is absolutely RIDICULOUS, regardless of the level of athlete you are. Consider that that's under a 4 minute mile pace. For a big man. Just what!? :lol
He also crushed a mountain lion with his bare hands and threw it away, picked up 100 pound dumbells like we pick up our telephones, broke a players toes because the force his dunk was so strong, slept with 20000 women, benched 500 pounds, ect. Right...

[DAF86]

If it were so easy to score 50 a game back then some other dude would have done it. Chamberlain is definitely a top 10 player of all-time, probably top 5, maybe even top 3.

[Cry Havoc]

His head never was at rim level. Wilt was 7'2", a 48" vert is 4 feet so the top of his head could reach 11'2"....lol. His entire head would be above the rim all the time with that vertical. You cant really believe this can you? Great I'm arguing with another crazy Wilt historian.

He's got a documented 6 foot 6 inch high jump in college with videos to prove it. Unless you think that a high jump champion doesn't mean anything on a basketball court?

[Killakobe81]

Dont get the need to belittle Wilt. Not choosing sides but he clearly was one of the two best players of his era ... and extremely dominant. Did not win enough but he won.
I dont rank him with MJ, Kareem, Duncan Kobe cuz I never saw him play.
Same for "O", Bill Russ, Elgin, West ...

I lol at dudes who never saw Magic or or Mj play as rookies trying to validate or invalidate Wilt.

Simmons for example did a nice job in his BOB ... cuz he sought out Wilt's peers. But even then his Celtic bias was evident, I saw all the trash he talked bout wilt prior to the book so no way was he objective. Wilt was a star for his two biggest rivals (Sixers/Lakers)

Stats cant do Wilt justice cuz he played with and against a bunch of slow unathletic guys (most of the black players wernt young VC or Lebron either) so the stat heads cant just hold to their numbers.

[angrydude]

All I know is that after the 90s they changed the rules so people could score more.

As in the players skills were such shit that they couldn't score the same as the players who came before them without gifting them millions of free throws with lame touch fouls.

[Sybok]

If you were to use a time machine to teleport Russell into today's nba, then he'd probably struggle because of the advancements in coaching, strategy, training and medicine. But you can't judge a player by that because they were measured against their peers. Much like you can't say newton would be a dumbass in today's economy because he doesn't know how to use spreadsheets or Columbus can't navigate because he can't use a gps.

However, if Russell was born 40 years later, with all the changes and ground work that has taken place, he would still be a top nba player because of his vision, athletic ability aNd basketball iq.

You absolutely can judge a player by that if you're comparing to people other than their peers. That's what we're doing here.

[Arcadian]

Simmons has a lot of awful takes, but at least he understands the bottom line: TD is the best player of his generation.

[midnightpulp]

:lol at dumbshit Deuce citing West's PPG like it's evidence of anything.

Scoring was highly inflated in that era. West averaged 31 FGA and 14FTA in one playoff run (Elgin Baylor went down in early in the playoffs, so West had an increased load). During the regular season, that Lakers team had a pace factor of 113 (113 possessions per game). Most NBA teams these days average around 90.

I don't think Deuce will ever get the concept of pace. PPG is one of the most misleading stats in basketball.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lol at dumbshit Deuce citing West's PPG like it's evidence of anything.

Scoring was highly inflated in that era. West averaged 31 FGA and 14FTA in one playoff run (Elgin Baylor went down in early in the playoffs, so West had an increased load). During the regular season, that Lakers team had a pace factor of 113 (113 possessions per game). Most NBA teams these days average around 90.

I don't think Deuce will ever get the concept of pace. PPG is one of the most misleading stats in basketball.
League average FGA in '69 and '70 two of West's peak years were 99, throughout the '80s the average was 87-90. West averaged over 30 ppg in both postseasons and finals those years including his highest finals series.

[midnightpulp]

League average FGA in '69 and '70 two of West's peak years were 99, throughout the '80s the average was 87-90. West averaged over 30 ppg in both postseasons and finals those years including his highest finals series.

Yes. And the fact West's era was considerably faster than the run 'n gun 80's proves my point. He would not average 30 ppg in today's game. He wouldn't get the shot attempts/possessions.

And 99 FGA is crazy fast. The league average today is 83.

Also pace =/= FGA. Pace is number of possessions (today's league average is 94). West was on teams that went into the 120s.

This is why I've always told you how arbitrary per game stats are. But you continue to use them, even though they're antiquated.

[ambchang]

You absolutely can judge a player by that if you're comparing to people other than their peers. That's what we're doing here.

Then you're saying newton is not one of the most brilliant scientist of all time.

Players build on what was done before them, and this logic would mean that ll timers will always be discounted and not given the credit they deserve for what they have done for the game.

[Sybok]

Then you're saying newton is not one of the most brilliant scientist of all time.

Players build on what was done before them, and this logic would mean that ll timers will always be discounted and not given the credit they deserve for what they have done for the game.

The laws of physics haven't changed. The competition and the game itself have changed. The Newton analogy is a poor one, because what he did cannot be quantified on a "competition" scale. Someone would have done it regardless, but he did it and at an early age. He was other worldly brilliant. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were just tall and somewhat athletic. There have been many tall and athletic guys to come along since, but not many before. I'd put Larry Bird above both of them. There are a couple people I'd put in the same realm as Newton, but then I don't know every scientist out there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes. And the fact West's era was considerably faster than the run 'n gun 80's proves my point. He would not average 30 ppg in today's game. He wouldn't get the shot attempts/possessions.

And 99 FGA is crazy fast. The league average today is 83.

Also pace =/= FGA. Pace is number of possessions (today's league average is 94). West was on teams that went into the 120s.

This is why I've always told you how arbitrary per game stats are. But you continue to use them, even though they're antiquated.
West was an efficient guard though. He has 30 ppg seasons with 22-23 FGA like Kobe did.

[ambchang]

The laws of physics haven't changed. The competition and the game itself have changed. The Newton analogy is a poor one, because what he did cannot be quantified on a "competition" scale. Someone would have done it regardless, but he did it and at an early age. He was other worldly brilliant. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were just tall and somewhat athletic. There have been many tall and athletic guys to come along since, but not many before. I'd put Larry Bird above both of them. There are a couple people I'd put in the same realm as Newton, but then I don't know every scientist out there.

The laws of science has not changed either, so I wouldn't understand how the Newton analogy wouldn't apply. The issue is that new players learned from the old players, and as the game evolved, players adapted and changed their play to adapt to the new game.

Using the Newton analogy again, there are geniuses in any age and era, Newton was that genius back in his era. The same applies to basketball players, there have always been people who were built to play basketball, even before the game was invented. Bill Russell and Chamberlain happened to be those basketball players who dominated the league at the beginning of the sport. Russell and Chamberlain weren't just tall and somewhat athletic. Russell was extremely high in basketball IQ, and brought elements to the game that weren't there before. His defense and outlet pass built a dynasty in which he was unquestionably the integral part. The Celtics based their fast break offense on his rebounding and outlet capabilities.

Wilt was simply dominant, in ways that the league has not seen since. I will take his athletic prowess with a grain of salt as well, but watching him play (just look up videos if you will), he was clearly on the same plane of athleticism as the elite athlete in today's game. His high jump, sprint and long jump records were all official, so there really is not much room to argue those. The league changed the rules for free throw shooting because they can't have Wilt get a running start and dunk the ball. How many 7' 300lb guys can dunk from the FT line?

Saying Larry Bird is more athletic than those is just asinine. I hope you meant from a ranking standpoint on this one, and I would agree with that.

[spurraider21]

good to see amb, dmc, and pump contributing in good basketball talk. :tu

[Sybok]

The laws of science has not changed either, so I wouldn't understand how the Newton analogy wouldn't apply. The issue is that new players learned from the old players, and as the game evolved, players adapted and changed their play to adapt to the new game.

Modern day scientists know more about science in general than Issac Newton knew. The argument isn't whether or not modern day ball players know more about the game. The argument is whether or not old timers, in their primes, would be as dominant in the league as they were in their day. Neither Wilt nor Bill would be even close, and I don't know that either of them would even be top 10 players today. That's not because they didn't understand the game of basketball, but that they just weren't nearly as impressive relative to today's crop as they were when it was just a small league. It has nothing to do with learning from each other. Kobe took Mike's moves, but Kobe isn't considered better than Mike. There were players from that era that were really good, but the Wilt/Russell thing is just about league imbalance, especially Wilt's stats.

You see some D-league guys score 30 a game. Those D-league teams would beat most of the NBA teams of Russell's era, maybe all of them, yet the D-league guy cannot average 7 a game in the NBA.


Using the Newton analogy again, there are geniuses in any age and era, Newton was that genius back in his era. The same applies to basketball players, there have always been people who were built to play basketball, even before the game was invented. Bill Russell and Chamberlain happened to be those basketball players who dominated the league at the beginning of the sport. Russell and Chamberlain weren't just tall and somewhat athletic. Russell was extremely high in basketball IQ, and brought elements to the game that weren't there before. His defense and outlet pass built a dynasty in which he was unquestionably the integral part. The Celtics based their fast break offense on his rebounding and outlet capabilities.

Why has no team won 4 consecutive championships since Russell did it? Why only the Lakers and Celtics for 10 years? Is it because there was no parity in the league? Of course. Had there been parity, we'd not be talking about Russell and Chamberlain. When a player can rise to the top and stay there for a long time in a somewhat balanced league, that says a lot more about that player than having one team win 9 titles in 11.

When one guy gets 50 rebounds in a game, that's not because he's the best rebounder the world has ever seen even today. It's because he's 3 feet taller than anyone else. 50 rebounds... 100 points... really? And you think that doesn't illustrate how imbalanced that era was?


Wilt was simply dominant, in ways that the league has not seen since. I will take his athletic prowess with a grain of salt as well, but watching him play (just look up videos if you will), he was clearly on the same plane of athleticism as the elite athlete in today's game. His high jump, sprint and long jump records were all official, so there really is not much room to argue those. The league changed the rules for free throw shooting because they can't have Wilt get a running start and dunk the ball. How many 7' 300lb guys can dunk from the FT line?

What elite athlete today has scored 100 points in a game, or grabbed 50 rebounds? Without those gawdy stats, we don't even talk about Wilt.


Saying Larry Bird is more athletic than those is just asinine. I hope you meant from a ranking standpoint on this one, and I would agree with that.
I didn't say Larry was more athletic. I said I'd take him over either of them. Hasheem Thabeet in the 60's would have been a dominant force in the NBA.

[midnightpulp]

West was an efficient guard though. He has 30 ppg seasons with 22-23 FGA like Kobe did.

He was efficient, but I don't see a 6'2" shooting guard getting 20+ shot attempts today. And if he did, he'd be inefficient, much like Allen Iverson.

That's why no one ranks West above Kobe, even though West bests him in every per game stat. In addition to beating Kobe in nearly every stat category, West was also a much better Finals performer. The only argument Kobe has over him is ring count.

If you're going to rank West above Hakeem, Duncan, etc, based on the logic you presented, then you should also rank him above Kobe.

[HI-FI]

Wilt had such elite, once in a lifetime monkeyballer genes. Plus he barebacked so many chicks, that DNA has to be spread somewhere out there.

[LkrFan]

Don't think many will dispute it tbh. He's accomplished more as a player tbh.
How so?

[scanry]

How so?

2 time league MVP.
3 time Finals MVP.
Was the league's best player by his 2nd season.
Took it to a Shaq-Kobe duo and beat em twice.
Was the alpha since he stepped foot on the court for the city of San Antonio.

The only post MJ era player who's accomplished more than Duncan is Lebron.

And above all, he's by far the best team player who hasn't once demanded a trade, criticized the front office/coaching staff or threatened to quit if the team's alpha is not shipped out.

[LkrFan]

2 time league MVP.
3 time Finals MVP.
Was the league's best player by his 2nd season.
Took it to a Shaq-Kobe duo and beat em twice.
Was the alpha since he stepped foot on the court for the city of San Antonio.

The only post MJ era player who's accomplished more than Duncan is Lebron.

And above all, he's by far the best team player who hasn't once demanded a trade, criticized the front office/coaching staff or threatened to quit if the team's alpha is not shipped out.
SMH

League MVP is a media award. Who cares?
League's best player by 2nd season? Only on SpursTalk
What's his head to head playoff record vs. Kobe?
LeBron has more rangs than Duncan? That's what matters.
Duncan tried to flee for Orlando to play with Grant Hill and T-Mac. Daisy Robinson persuaded him to stay.

[Katherine Robinson]

SMH

League MVP is a media award. Who cares?
League's best player by 2nd season? Only on SpursTalk
What's his head to head playoff record vs. Kobe?
LeBron has more rangs than Duncan? That's what matters.
Duncan tried to flee for Orlando to play with Grant Hill and T-Mac. Daisy Robinson persuaded him to stay.

Threatened to out him as a fudge packer, maybe.

[LkrFan]

Threatened to out him as a fudge packer, maybe.
:lol

[midnightpulp]

SMH

League MVP is a media award. Who cares?
League's best player by 2nd season? Only on SpursTalk
What's his head to head playoff record vs. Kobe?
LeBron has more rangs than Duncan? That's what matters.
Duncan tried to flee for Orlando to play with Grant Hill and T-Mac. Daisy Robinson persuaded him to stay.

He wasn't?

Shaq wasn't better in '99.

http://oi62.tinypic.com/5fg2n7.jpg

[scanry]

SMH

League MVP is a media award. Who cares? The only time people though he was overlooked was in 2005-06, but Chris Paul could say the same in 2007-08. Duncan has carried the Spurs through out. Two legit MVP's and should've had 3.
League's best player by 2nd season? Only on SpursTalk. Care to point out who the league's best player in 1999 was? That's right, a 21 year old steamrolling through the playoffs.
What's his head to head playoff record vs. Kobe? A lot closer than you think. He would've swept the piano dude had he not been hurt last year.
LeBron has more rangs than Duncan? That's what matters. Unlike the beta, Duncan was the alpha through and through in those 4 championships.
Duncan tried to flee for Orlando to play with Grant Hill and T-Mac. Daisy Robinson persuaded him to stay. Atleast he didn't threaten the front office to trade Robinson.

[scanry]

He wasn't?

Shaq wasn't better in '99.

http://oi62.tinypic.com/5fg2n7.jpg

He was so finesse that year especially against the Lakers and the Knicks. His ankle surgery the next year took away his athleticism tbh.

[midnightpulp]

SMH

League MVP is a media award. Who cares?
League's best player by 2nd season? Only on SpursTalk
What's his head to head playoff record vs. Kobe?
LeBron has more rangs than Duncan? That's what matters.
Duncan tried to flee for Orlando to play with Grant Hill and T-Mac. Daisy Robinson persuaded him to stay.

Who cares?

Duncan's matchup was Shaq (and later Gasol) and he typically outplayed Shaq.

[scanry]

Who cares?

Duncan's matchup was Shaq (and later Gasol) and he typically outplayed Shaq.

Kobe holds a 18 - 16 head to head record to be exact.

[LkrFan]

He wasn't?

Shaq wasn't better in '99.

http://oi62.tinypic.com/5fg2n7.jpg
'99*

[LkrFan]

Kobe holds a 18 - 16 head to head record to be exact.
Don't forget 5 > 4

[LkrFan]

Who cares?

Duncan's matchup was Shaq (and later Gasol) and he typically outplayed Shaq.
I do. Kobe is also 1-0 vs. Duncan after Shaq. :downspin:

[Deuce Bigalow]

2 time league MVP.
3 time Finals MVP.
Was the league's best player by his 2nd season.
Took it to a Shaq-Kobe duo and beat em twice.
Was the alpha since he stepped foot on the court for the city of San Antonio.

The only post MJ era player who's accomplished more than Duncan is Lebron.

And above all, he's by far the best team player who hasn't once demanded a trade, criticized the front office/coaching staff or threatened to quit if the team's alpha is not shipped out.
Kobe's 05-06 and 06-07 where he didn't win MVP > than Duncan's MVP seasons

05-06:
35-5-5 on 45/35/85 (56TS)
8th highest ppg season ever, highest since 87-88
6 50-point games
27 40-point games
40 ppg month

06-07:
32-6-5 on 46/34/87 (58TS)
37 ppg post allstar break
10 50-point games (most in a single season since Wilt)
18 40-point games
40 ppg month
4 straight 50-point game streak

Don't care if he didn't win MVP, he had better seasons than Duncan's 01-02 and 02-03 seasons.

FMVPs?

Kobe's 01 postseason where he didn't win FMVP:
29-7-6 on 47/32/82 (56TS) (15-1 record, the best playoff record EVER)
Vs. Western Conference: 32-7-6 on 49FG/58TS (TEAM WENT 11-0)
Finals: 25-8-6
WCF: 33-7-7
WCSF: 35-9-4
1st Rd: 25-4-8

Also...5>4

Next

[midnightpulp]

'99*

:lol Asterisk smack.

How about '02 (a series the Lakers won. I also remember Shaq being butthurt about Duncan getting the MVP, so he was going to "prove" he was the true MVP. He didn't).

http://oi60.tinypic.com/20s93js.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Inb4 Bbbbut ppg doesnt matter

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe holds a 18 - 16 head to head record to be exact.
No one cares about games that you won in a lost series

4-2

And Kobe killed SA in the 4th quarters. Don't believe me? See my 4th quarter stats thread. Don't act like Kobe doesn't have a clear edge.

[LkrFan]

Kobe's 05-06 and 06-07 where he didn't win MVP > than Duncan's MVP seasons

05-06:
35-5-5 on 45/35/85 (56TS)
8th highest ppg season ever, highest since 87-88
6 50-point games
27 40-point games
40 ppg month

06-07:
32-6-5 on 46/34/87 (58TS)
37 ppg post allstar break
10 50-point games (most in a single season since Wilt)
18 40-point games
40 ppg month
4 straight 50-point game streak

Don't care if he didn't win MVP, he had better seasons than Duncan's 01-02 and 02-03 seasons.

FMVPs?

Kobe's 01 postseason where he didn't win FMVP:
29-7-6 on 47/32/82 (56TS) (15-1 record, the best playoff record EVER)
Vs. Western Conference: 32-7-6 on 49FG/58TS (TEAM WENT 11-0)
Finals: 25-8-6
WCF: 33-7-7
WCSF: 35-9-4
1st Rd: 25-4-8

Also...5>4

NextDropping a wet deuce on these farmers. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Kobe's 05-06 and 06-07 where he didn't win MVP > than Duncan's MVP seasons

05-06:
35-5-5 on 45/35/85 (56TS)
8th highest ppg season ever, highest since 87-88
6 50-point games
27 40-point games
40 ppg month

06-07:
32-6-5 on 46/34/87 (58TS)
37 ppg post allstar break
10 50-point games (most in a single season since Wilt)
18 40-point games
40 ppg month
4 straight 50-point game streak

Don't care if he didn't win MVP, he had better seasons than Duncan's 01-02 and 02-03 seasons.

FMVPs?

Kobe's 01 postseason where he didn't win FMVP:
29-7-6 on 47/32/82 (56TS) (15-1 record, the best playoff record EVER)
Vs. Western Conference: 32-7-6 on 49FG/58TS (TEAM WENT 11-0)
Finals: 25-8-6
WCF: 33-7-7
WCSF: 35-9-4
1st Rd: 25-4-8

Also...5>4

Next

:lol Kobe's 07 season wasn't even better than Duncan's 07 season. They both had 26.1 PER. As for '06, tell me what both players did in the playoffs? Duncan's PER was 30 that run. Kobe choked to the Suns.

Quit using per game stats and giving more weight to PPG. They're beyond antiquated.

[scanry]

Kobe's 05-06 and 06-07 where he didn't win MVP > than Duncan's MVP seasons

05-06:
35-5-5 on 45/35/85 (56TS)
8th highest ppg season ever, highest since 87-88
6 50-point games
27 40-point games
40 ppg month

06-07:
32-6-5 on 46/34/87 (58TS)
37 ppg post allstar break
10 50-point games (most in a single season since Wilt)
18 40-point games
40 ppg month
4 straight 50-point game streak

Don't care if he didn't win MVP, he had better seasons than Duncan's 01-02 and 02-03 seasons.

FMVPs?

Kobe's 01 postseason where he didn't win FMVP:
29-7-6 on 47/32/82 (56TS) (15-1 record, the best playoff record EVER)
Vs. Western Conference: 32-7-6 on 49FG/58TS (TEAM WENT 11-0)
Finals: 25-8-6
WCF: 33-7-7
WCSF: 35-9-4
1st Rd: 25-4-8

Also...5>4

Next

http://s0.uploads.im/PKcaI.jpg

TMac tbh.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lol Kobe's 07 season wasn't even better than Duncan's 07 season. They both had 26.1 PER. As for '06, tell me what both players did in the playoffs? Duncan's PER was 30 that run. Kobe choked to the Suns.

Quit using per game stats and giving more weight to PPG. They're beyond antiquated.
liIYL7YcePI

[midnightpulp]

Inb4 Bbbbut ppg doesnt matter

It really doesn't. Not as much as you think. You focus on it because that's all Kobe is really known for.

[LkrFan]

:lol Asterisk smack.

How about '02 (a series the Lakers won. I also remember Shaq being butthurt about Duncan getting the MVP, so he was going to "prove" he was the true MVP. He didn't).

http://oi60.tinypic.com/20s93js.jpgEver see Shaq do this...

J3NvhxKicJY

...with a TOSB small forward guarding him? Pathetic son. :lol

[Clipper Nation]

It really doesn't. Not as much as you think. You focus on it because that's all Kobe is really known for.
False - Kirby is also known for chucking, bricking, snitching, raping, quitting, coattail-riding, jerking off after she left, and filming Tapes :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hl_HbwnjHLI

[midnightpulp]

Kobe isn't even a particularly good defender. Phil Jackson said as much in his book (not that I really take anything he has to say seriously) and the stats don't back up his "doberman defender" reputation.

http://asubstituteforwar.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/defrapm1011.jpg?w=700

http://asubstituteforwar.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/

We also know he's beyond overrated as a clutch shot maker as the stats have shown.

They only thing Kobe is really known for is his scoring (on a a lot of shots). He's a rich man's T-mac who's always had the benefit of playing alongside a dominant big/frontline in his championship years.

[LkrFan]

:lol Kobe's 07 season wasn't even better than Duncan's 07 season. They both had 26.1 PER. As for '06, tell me what both players did in the playoffs? Duncan's PER was 30 that run. Kobe choked to the Suns.

Quit using per game stats and giving more weight to PPG. They're beyond antiquated.
You lost credibility here with that Chimpy Hollinger crap. -10 points.

[LkrFan]

False - Kirby is also known for chucking, bricking, snitching, raping, quitting, coattail-riding, jerking off after she left, and filming Tapes :lol
Sup Spur Nation?

[midnightpulp]

You lost credibility here with that Chimpy Hollinger crap. -10 points.

No front office uses traditional per game stats anymore. Evolve.

[scanry]

No one cares about games that you won in a lost series

4-2

And Kobe killed SA in the 4th quarters. Don't believe me? See my 4th quarter stats thread. Don't act like Kobe doesn't have a clear edge.

on what?

Duncan has allowed and complimented players for the betterment of the team. The only thing Kobe had in his mind was to be beat MJ. How did that work out btw (despite having a prime Shaq for a good 8 years). Do i even need to throw Shaq's numbers during that period at your face?

http://s0.uploads.im/Jwd5h.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

Sup Spur Nation?
Another embarrassing loss for "your" Pacers, Alonso? They'll all be teasing you in front of the Home Depot on Monday for that one :lol

[LkrFan]

It really doesn't. Not as much as you think. You focus on it because that's all Kobe is really known for.
What is Duncan really known for tbh?

[LkrFan]

Another embarrassing loss for "your" Pacers, Alonso? They'll all be teasing you in front of the Home Depot on Monday for that one :lol:lmao

They're looking ahead for Wednesday's Showdown with the chumps.

[scanry]

No front office uses traditional per game stats anymore. Evolve.

You seriously didn't say that considering his border crossing genes? :lol

[Clipper Nation]

What is Duncan really known for tbh?
Being the greatest player of his era (the 2000's) and the greatest power forward of all time.... meanwhile, I already listed what Kirby's known for :lol

[LkrFan]

No front office uses traditional per game stats anymore. Evolve.
Maybe, but PER is a weak argument. Never cared for it even in Kobe's prime.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hl_HbwnjHLI
Its pathetic how spurfan is trying to rewrite history :lol

Kevin Durant on Kobe's scoring prime:


So giving what you’ve gone through with your scoring this year, what impressed you about what Kobe did back in his prime?


“What I did is not a fraction of what he did. What guys are doing now is nothing compared to what he did. Me, Carmelo, LeBron, Paul George, what we’ve done out there in this league is nothing compared to what Kobe did. A lot of people forget. We live in a world of what have you done for me lately. We don’t remember the day before sometimes. Think back five, six seven years ago with what he was doing, it’s unheard of.”

[midnightpulp]

No front office uses traditional per game stats anymore. Evolve.

More on this point.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/02/15/the-new-nba-comstats-advanced-stats-all-start-with-pace-and-efficiency/

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/4356/how-advanced-stats-changed-chris-boshs-game

[LkrFan]

Being the greatest player of his era (the 2000's) and the greatest power forward of all time.... meanwhile, I already listed what Kirby's known for :lol
How is he the greatest in the 2000's when he's down 5 > 3?

[Clipper Nation]

I bet Kupcake and Chazz use per-game stats still, that's why the Lakers suck so bad now :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

“When you look back at this era there’s going to be a lot of players that you can pick from. You can talk about their greatness. This is a good era for basketball, and it would be led by Kobe Bryant – who was the greatest player in our era.”

-Dwyane Wade

[Clipper Nation]

How is he the greatest in the 2000's when he's down 5 > 3?
-40000 points for trying to compare 5 role player rings to 3 alpha rings.... SMH :lol

[MeloHype]

“When you look back at this era there’s going to be a lot of players that you can pick from. You can talk about their greatness. This is a good era for basketball, and it would be led by Kobe Bryant – who was the greatest player in our era.”
-Dwyane Wade"Kobe sucks"-kid in my math class

[LkrFan]

You seriously didn't say that considering his border crossing genes? :lol
How come Duncan failed (4 times) to repeat as champion?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe’s footwork in the post is obviously legendary.


"Oh yeah. The athleticism, the balance in the air, the lefty shots. He made a 3 on us one year in the corner. The shot clock was winding down, and he had to spin around and just shoot it lefty. To me, he's the no. 1 player over the 15 years I've been in this league."

-Dirk Nowitzki

[Clipper Nation]

“When you look back at this era there’s going to be a lot of players that you can pick from. You can talk about their greatness. This is a good era for basketball, and it would be led by Kobe Bryant – who was the greatest player in our era.”
-Dwyane Wade
Players' evaluations of other players mean jackshit, as evidenced by all the former players who have flamed out as GM's (i.e. Isiah, Jordan, Otis Smith, etc.)....

[midnightpulp]

What is Duncan really known for tbh?

All time great defender (Kobe is not an all-time great defender). One of the best passing big men in history. One of the best rebounders.

He also shoots a better percentage on GW shots than Kobe :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe over Duncan
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history

http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/basketball/top-10-nba-players-of-all-time.html

http://www.interbasket.net/news/6831/2010/06/jordan-magic-bird-in-top-5-nba-players-all-time-kobe-bryant-8/

http://www.sportscity.com/whos-the-best-of-all-time-the-top-10-players-in-nba-history/2013/04/05/

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2013/12/top-ten-greatest-nba-players?page=5

http://m.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

http://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-best-nba-players-of-all-time/

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2013/03/top-50-nba-players-of-all-time/#45

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/404920-the-nbas-top-50-players-of-all-time

http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/07/ranking-top-100-players-in-nba-history.html?m=1

http://www.celticslife.com/2013/01/ranking-top-ten-players-in-nba-history.html?m=1

http://waldersworldofsports.com/2011/11/11/walder-top-10-greatest-players-in-nba-history/


Duncan over Kobe
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

http://www.basesandbaskets.com/2012/12/greatest-nba-players-of-all-time.html?m=1

[scanry]

Another embarrassing loss for "your" Pacers, Alonso? They'll all be teasing you in front of the Home Depot on Monday for that one :lol

:lol

[LkrFan]

Duncan is the player of the 2000's


“When you look back at this era there’s going to be a lot of players that you can pick from. You can talk about their greatness. This is a good era for basketball, and it would be led by Kobe Bryant – who was the greatest player in our era.”

-Dwyane Wade

But but but PER!

:lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

I specifically like this one:

Before the 2010 NBA finals began, Interbasket asked 54 sportswriters, analysts, and basketball experts from around the country to name the top 5 NBA players of all-time. Not a completely surprising list, but there are some interesting results

The list of voters include Fran Blinebury, Woody Paige, Stephen A. Smith, Kevin Cowherd, Dave D’Alessandro, among others. Here are the results of our survey:

1. Michael Jordan 50 of 54 (92.6%)
2. Magic Johnson 44 of 54 (81.5%)
3. Wilt Chamberlain 37 of 54 (68.5%)
4. Larry Bird 35 of 54 (64.8%)
5. Bill Russell 30 of 54 (55.6%)
6. Oscar Robertson 24 of 54 (44.4%)
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 22 of 54 (40.7%)
8. Kobe Bryant 10 of 54 (40.7%)

Others Receiving Votes: Kobe Bryant (10), Elgin Baylor (4), Julius Erving (3), Jerry West (3), Tim Duncan (2), Lebron James (2), Shaquille O’Neal (2), Karl Malone (1), Hakeem Olajuwon (1).

http://www.interbasket.net/news/6831/2010/06/jordan-magic-bird-in-top-5-nba-players-all-time-kobe-bryant-8/

Since you guys like media awards like MVP, here are the same kind of people voting on the alltime greatest players :lol

:hat

[RD2191]

Kobe Bryant is the most overrated basketball player of all time. A quitter and dick rider to NBA titles. He played for a big market which means he always got more exposure than Timmy. No one with any credible basketball knowledge would pick Kobe over Duncan. Not to mention Tim always did more work than Kobe. Shooting, blocking, rebounding, and playing great defense. Kobe is an inefficient chucker. Stats don't lie. Kobe is nowhere near top 10. His defense is/was overrated. The dude is all hype.

[LkrFan]

All time great defender (Kobe is not an all-time great defender). One of the best passing big men in history. One of the best rebounders.

He also shoots a better percentage on GW shots than Kobe :lol
Man you streeeeeeeetching the truth here. But you gotta do what you gotta do. :lol

[RD2191]

I specifically like this one:

Before the 2010 NBA finals began, Interbasket asked 54 sportswriters, analysts, and basketball experts from around the country to name the top 5 NBA players of all-time. Not a completely surprising list, but there are some interesting results.

The list of voters include Fran Blinebury, Woody Paige, Stephen A. Smith, Kevin Cowherd, Dave D’Alessandro, among others. Here are the results of our survey:


1. Michael Jordan 50 of 54 (92.6%)
2. Magic Johnson 44 of 54 (81.5%)
3. Wilt Chamberlain 37 of 54 (68.5%)
4. Larry Bird 35 of 54 (64.8%)
5. Bill Russell 30 of 54 (55.6%)
6. Oscar Robertson 24 of 54 (44.4%)
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 22 of 54 (40.7%)
8. Kobe Bryant 10 of 54 (40.7%)


Others Receiving Votes: Kobe Bryant (10), Elgin Baylor (4), Julius Erving (3), Jerry West (3), Tim Duncan (2), Lebron James (2), Shaquille O’Neal (2), Karl Malone (1), Hakeem Olajuwon (1).

http://www.interbasket.net/news/6831/2010/06/jordan-magic-bird-in-top-5-nba-players-all-time-kobe-bryant-8/

Since you guys like media awards like MVP, here are the same kind of people voting on the alltime greatest players :lol
ROFL STEPHEN A SMITH, FUCK YO LIST CLOWN

[midnightpulp]

Not surprised that the 2 best players since Jordan shoot the same clutch percentage.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/15ydd14.jpg

[midnightpulp]

I specifically like this one:

Before the 2010 NBA finals began, Interbasket asked 54 sportswriters, analysts, and basketball experts from around the country to name the top 5 NBA players of all-time. Not a completely surprising list, but there are some interesting results

The list of voters include Fran Blinebury, Woody Paige, Stephen A. Smith, Kevin Cowherd, Dave D’Alessandro, among others. Here are the results of our survey:

1. Michael Jordan 50 of 54 (92.6%)
2. Magic Johnson 44 of 54 (81.5%)
3. Wilt Chamberlain 37 of 54 (68.5%)
4. Larry Bird 35 of 54 (64.8%)
5. Bill Russell 30 of 54 (55.6%)
6. Oscar Robertson 24 of 54 (44.4%)
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 22 of 54 (40.7%)
8. Kobe Bryant 10 of 54 (40.7%)

Others Receiving Votes: Kobe Bryant (10), Elgin Baylor (4), Julius Erving (3), Jerry West (3), Tim Duncan (2), Lebron James (2), Shaquille O’Neal (2), Karl Malone (1), Hakeem Olajuwon (1).

http://www.interbasket.net/news/6831/2010/06/jordan-magic-bird-in-top-5-nba-players-all-time-kobe-bryant-8/

Since you guys like media awards like MVP, here are the same kind of people voting on the alltime greatest players :lol

:hat

:lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe Bryant is the most overrated basketball player of all time. A quitter and dick rider to NBA titles. He played for a big market which means he always got more exposure than Timmy. No one with any credible basketball knowledge would pick Kobe over Duncan. Not to mention Tim always did more work than Kobe. Shooting, blocking, rebounding, and playing great defense. Kobe is an inefficient chucker. Stats don't lie. Kobe is nowhere near top 10. His defense is/was overrated. The dude is all hype.
^ Diaz with the rare truthbombs....

[LkrFan]

Not surprised that the 2 best players since Jordan shoot the same clutch percentage.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/15ydd14.jpg
5 > 4* > 2*

[Deuce Bigalow]

ROFL STEPHEN A SMITH, FUCK YO LIST CLOWN
THOSE PEOPLE VOTE FOR THE MVP, CLOWN.

IF THAT LIST DOESN'T MATTER THEN MODERN DAY MVP AWARDS DONT MATTER.

[ezau]

Kobe was a great player. Too bad his career is over while TD continues to play and improve his legacy.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lmao
Laughs at those names

then...

Duncan is better because of one more MVP award that those same guys vote for

:lmao

[scanry]

5 > 4* > 2*

http://i.imgur.com/4Z9C9hP.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

:lol If Kirby had more than 1* MVP, all his dick-lickers on here would be extolling the award's virtues instead of writing it off as a "media award," and they know it....

[scanry]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Jackson-Shaq-Kobe-Stern.jpg

[LkrFan]

Career apg

Jim 3.1
Kobe 4.7

So much for krone being a chucker. He scores and assists better than Jim

[scanry]

Laughs at those names

then...

Duncan is better because of one more MVP award that those same guys vote for

:lmao

You conveniently forget the finals MVP. :lol

[RD2191]

THOSE PEOPLE VOTE FOR THE MVP, CLOWN.

IF THAT LIST DOESN'T MATTER THEN MODERN DAY MVP AWARDS DONT MATTER.
So how the fuck are they gonna vote Kobe as a top 10 player of all time when they only voted the dude as an MVP once?

[Clipper Nation]

Career apg

Jim 3.1
Kobe 4.7

So much for krone being a chucker. He scores and assists better than Jim
Duncan is a big, Kirby is a guard.... pretty pathetic for it to be that close :lol

[scanry]

:lol If Kirby had more than 1* MVP, all his dick-lickers on here would be extolling the award's virtues instead of writing it off as a "media award," and they know it....

Shamelessly foodstamping his ring count with Daddy's hard work.

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/4920970629_7fb8758dbc-jpg.jpe

And what does daddy get in return: Snitching to the Police and threatening the front office for his ouster. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Laughs at those names

then...

Duncan is better because of one more MVP award that those same guys vote for

:lmao

But I don't make that argument. The regular season is largely meaningless to me in that regard (of course you have to win regular season games to get into the playoffs, but there's too many games against bad teams).

I don't care who or what is the source of the argument, as long as it's backed up by logic and facts (something you don't do, either). That's why your quote spam is useless.

[Clipper Nation]

Fun fact: Blake Griffin (a power forward) averages only about one fewer assist for his career than Kirby (a guard) :lol

:downspin: that shit, LkrFan!

[LkrFan]

Kobe was a great player. Too bad his career is over while TD continues to play and improve his legacy.
How does this factor into improving his legacy?


J3NvhxKicJY

;)

[scanry]

:lol If Kirby had more than 1* MVP, all his dick-lickers on here would be extolling the award's virtues instead of writing it off as a "media award," and they know it....

That was Chris Paul's tbh. :lol

[LkrFan]

Fun fact: Blake Griffin (a power forward) averages only about one fewer assist for his career than Kirby (a guard) :lol

:downspin: that shit, LkrFan (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18824)!
Moving goal posts? -15 points.

[Clipper Nation]

That was Chris Paul's tbh. :lol
:lol Hence the asterisk.... Kirby stole that trophy, just like how he stole the Larry O'Brien from Daddy and gave it to Detroit in aught-four....

[Deuce Bigalow]

So how the fuck are they gonna vote Kobe as a top 10 player of all time when they only voted the dude as an MVP once?
MVPs are team team based awards nowadays since the media started voting on it. When's the last time someone won it with a team record under 50 wins since the '80s? And how many times has that been done since then?

[LkrFan]

Duncan is a big, Kirby is a guard.... pretty pathetic for it to be that close :lol
Nuh uh. Kobe's a chucker. Chucker's don't pass.

His career apg even factors in his rookie year when Del Harris wouldn't play him. Yet he still trumps Jim. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Career apg

Jim 3.1
Kobe 4.7

So much for krone being a chucker. He scores and assists better than Jim

Like CN said, Duncan is a big and Kobe is a guard. Asking a big to average more assists than a guard is like asking a guard to average more boards than a big.

Besides, apg doesn't equal passing ability. Bird was a much better passer than John Stockton, even thought Stockton racked up the assists.

[Clipper Nation]

Nuh uh. Kobe's a chucker. Chucker's don't pass.

His career apg even factors in his rookie year when Del Harris wouldn't play him. Yet he still trumps Jim. :lol
:lol He is a chucker, end of story.... someone who scores lots of points on low percentages is the definition of a chucker....

[Deuce Bigalow]

But I don't make that argument. The regular season is largely meaningless to me in that regard (of course you have to win regular season games to get into the playoffs, but there's too many games against bad teams).

I don't care who or what is the source of the argument, as long as it's backed up by logic and facts (something you don't do, either). That's why your quote spam is useless.
Did I not back up my claims with stats on the 05-06/06-07 seasons and 01 playoffs?

Go back and tell me.

[midnightpulp]

Nuh uh. Kobe's a chucker. Chucker's don't pass.

His career apg even factors in his rookie year when Del Harris wouldn't play him. Yet he still trumps Jim. :lol

He doesn't pass. Allen Iverson was the most selfish player I've ever seen and still average about 6 dimes just because he was so ball dominant, like Kobe.

Kobe isn't a bad passer when he wants to be, but he's nowhere near the top as far as passing wings go. Duncan is a top 5 passing big of all-time (Russell, Walton, KG, Webber, Duncan). Kobe wouldn't crack the top 10 of passing wings.

[LkrFan]

That was Chris Paul's tbh. :lol
Kobe's team went to the Finals det year. CP0's was a first round casualty. Per his career ceiling, including last year's 56 win campaign. -5 points. Try again son.

[midnightpulp]

Did I not back up my claims with stats on the 05-06/06-07 seasons and 01 playoffs?

Go back and tell me.

You're only capable of using per game stats (mostly PPG) and TS% (a highly flawed stat).

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe isn't a bad passer when he wants to be
Even when he tries to pass, it's non-impactful, tbh.... his "Kobe Johnson" phase last year was just blatant statpadding to prove a point :lol

[midnightpulp]

You're only capable of using per game stats (mostly PPG) and TS% (a highly flawed stat).

And you never take into consideration defense.

[Sybok]

And you never take into consideration defense.
Neither does Kobe though.

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe's team went to the Finals det year. CP0's was a first round casualty. Per his career ceiling, including last year's 56 win campaign. -5 points. Try again son.
MVP is a regular-season award and CP3 had the better seasonPERIOD.... by your logic, MVPau deserved MVP that year for leading the Lakers to the title as the alpha :lol

[ezau]

How does this factor into improving his legacy?


J3NvhxKicJY

;)

I'd take that than seeing Duncan get injured via Achilles or broken knee cap, tbh. Seriously though, Kobe's done. We can all just talk about how good he was because he ain't coming back.

[LkrFan]

Like CN said, Duncan is a big and Kobe is a guard. Asking a big to average more assists than a guard is like asking a guard to average more boards than a big.

Besides, apg doesn't equal passing ability. Bird was a much better passer than John Stockton, even thought Stockton racked up the assists.
Bird was a good passer, but he wasn't better than Stockton. C'mon man.

[LkrFan]

MVP is a regular-season award and CP3 had the better seasonPERIOD.... by your logic, MVPau deserved MVP that year for leading the Lakers to the title as the alpha :lol
How so?

[LkrFan]

I'd take that than seeing Duncan get injured via Achilles or broken knee cap, tbh. Seriously though, Kobe's done. We can all just talk about how good he was because he ain't coming back.
That's denial stage of 6 talk.

[midnightpulp]

Bird was a good passer, but he wasn't better than Stockton. C'mon man.

Yes he was. If Bird was somehow a PG, he'd average more assists than Stockton any day of the week, especially if he ran the PnR with Malone 60 times a game.

[Clipper Nation]

How so?

CP3's fellow starters were MoPete, Peja, West, and a raw Tyson Chandler, yet they won 56 games (despite Media predicting they'd miss the playoffs) and had a top 5 offense.... 57% TS, 21 PPG, and he averaged 11.6 assists to a ridiculous 2.5 turnovers - even averaging 4 rebounds per game as a point guard....

Kirby won because of his name, the name on the front of his jersey, and pity only.... KG was more deserving that year too :lol

[ezau]

That's denial stage of 6 talk.

It sucks to be a Kobe fan these days. Deep down, you know Kobe's done. It would take a miracle for him to get back to 80% of what he was before injury. If Kobe got injured at 25, he could come back as good as he was, but dude is already pushing 36. Great career and player, but I see him retiring very soon.

[Clipper Nation]

CP3's fellow starters were MoPete, Peja, West, and a raw Tyson Chandler, yet they won 56 games (despite Media predicting they'd miss the playoffs) and had a top 5 offense.... 57% TS, 21 PPG, and he averaged 11.6 assists to a ridiculous 2.5 turnovers - even averaging 4 rebounds per game as a point guard....

Kirby won because of his name, the name on the front of his jersey, and pity only.... KG was more deserving that year too :lol
:lol Damn, no response to these truthbombs from LkrFan.... maybe I should have written them in Spanish so he could understand them...

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lol Hence the asterisk.... Kirby stole that trophy, just like how he stole the Larry O'Brien from Daddy and gave it to Detroit in aught-four....
“Somebody told me the other day Kobe’s never won MVP …. it made me wanna throw mine away! That’s how much respect I have for the guy!”

-Larry Bird

[Clipper Nation]

“Somebody told me the other day Kobe’s never won MVP …. it made me wanna throw mine away! That’s how much respect I have for the guy!”

-Larry Bird

"This kid is going to fit the bill for us. We feel he can handle it. I think Kwame is going to be fine."

- Michael Jordan, 2001 Draft

[Cry Havoc]

Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were just tall and somewhat athletic.

Perhaps the biggest understatement in the history of Spurstalk.

[Deuce Bigalow]

"This kid is going to fit the bill for us. We feel he can handle it. I think Kwame is going to be fine."

- Michael Jordan, 2001 Draft
“I think Kobe is the best player in our league and I think he’s been the best player for a long time, not to take anything away from anybody else. You know, somebody told me the other day that [Kobe] hasn’t won an MVP trophy, and it sort of made me feel like I want to go throw mine away, so that’s how much respect I have for the guy.”

[Cry Havoc]

Deuce, after getting eviscerated by Midnight in the stats department, turns to player quotes as examples of his basketball knowledge. :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

3× NBA champion (1981, 1984, 1986)
2× NBA Finals MVP (1984, 1986)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1984–1986)
12× NBA All-Star (1980–1988, 1990–1992)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1982)
9× All-NBA First Team (1980–1988)
All-NBA Second Team (1990)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1982–1984)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1980)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1980)
3× Three-point Shootout champion (1986–1988)
2× 50–40–90 club (1987-1988)
AP Athlete of the Year (1986)
No. 33 retired by Boston Celtics
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
College national player of the year (1979)
2× MVC Player of the Year (1978–1979)
2× Consensus first team All-American (1978–1979)
NBA All-Star Game head coach (1998)
NBA Coach of the Year (1998)
NBA Executive of the Year (2012)