How does thunderfan feel about trying to win against a 31 vs 20 FT disadvantage?

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I'm loving this Rockets vs OKC game...

I saw several reckless drives by Durant that the refs have awarded free throws for in the past. The difference in this game? For whatever reason the refs are choosing not to award him those ticky tack free throws.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

There it is, another drive by Durant and another no call despite ticky tack contact.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Asik gets free throws but I'm half surprised they didn't award Harden free throws on the drive. That's another perfect example of ticky tack contact that refs have awarded free throws for Harden in the past.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

OKC shoots better from the field, better from 2, better from 3 and attempts more field goals and still loses the game. Welcome to how the spurs feel every time they play OKC.

[Horry Hipcheck]

They'll just chalk this one up to a modest night from KD and the lack of Westbrick.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Thunderfan is so oblivious to questionable free throw advantages in games. It's a joy to see them on the wrong end of the stick so they know what it feels like being jobbed of a game that they probably should've won.

James Harden had as many free throw attempts (20) as the entire OKC team combined (20).

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Although granted, you can never simply look at the total number of free throw attempts and determine that there was an unfair advantage. You have to just watch the game and do your best to classify each play.

If one team legitimately fouls another team such that the other team gets 40 FTA vs 20 FTA, then that's fine. The number is just a red flag - it's not an outright indication of foul play.

[Horry Hipcheck]

Thunderfan is so oblivious to questionable free throw advantages in games. It's a joy to see them on the wrong end of the stick so they know what it feels like being jobbed of a game that they probably should've won.

James Harden had as many free throw attempts (20) as the entire OKC team combined (20).

Probably doesn't bode well for a potential Semis matchup between the Spurs and Rockets.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Probably doesn't bode well for a potential Semis matchup between the Spurs and Rockets.

I was thinking the same thing... OKC vs Hou in the 2nd round would been the most ideal....

[Solid D]

Sometimes you eat the bear...

and sometimes the bear eats you.

[Horry Hipcheck]

I was thinking the same thing... OKC vs Hou in the 2nd round would been the most ideal....

My ideal standings were

1. Spurs
2. OKC
3. Rockets
4. Clips
5. Portland
6. GSW
7. Dallas
8. Memphis

Spurs have dispatched this iteration of the Grizz countless times with ease in the last 12 months, Dallas could give OKC fits in the first round. Let the Clips walk through Portland to face the Spurs, which is a better matchup for SA than Houston. Meanwhile OKC gets past Dallas to earn a dance with the Rockets, another tough out, before ultimately advancing to the WCF. Or, Houston straight up knocks them out.

But Houston lost the race for the 3 seed long ago.

[tmtcsc]

How about the Spurs just improve transition D and limit turnovers. We win against anyone. Fuck the standings.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

How about the Spurs just improve transition D and limit turnovers. We win against anyone. Fuck the standings.

Defense and foul calls are intimately related. The fact is that there is some form of contact pretty much 99% of the time in any given basketball possession. The question is what the refs set as the threshold beyond which contact is called as a foul. If the refs set that threshold to be arbitrarily low for one team and relatively higher for another team, no amount of "improved defense" is going to help.

Our defense on Durant looked awfully similar to the defense the Rockets played on him on several possessions. The only difference? Durant was awarded +6 or so FTA against us on 3 ticky tack foul calls while refs did not award Durant those 3 ticky tack fouls against Houston.

That's not to say that Durant still wasn't awarded ticky tack free throws on occasion against Houston. Jeff Van Gundy mentioned one of them..."There was awfully little contact on that play.."

[jARS mEsH sEt]

:lmao looks like thunderfan is at least somewhat aware of the issue:

From an OKC thunder forum -



so Rockets get alot of 3 point free throws and we cant get a call when Garcia is putting his hands all over Durant. Cool.




Yep. Rockets fans can't complain about the refs tonight. They've (mainly Harden) have gotten a lot more "bull****" calls than we have.


I don't give a crap that he was a big part of our run to the Finals in 2012. I absolutely can't stand James Harden and the way he plays basketball. Yes, I'm aware Durant gets his share of superstar/BS calls, but Harden is in his own league in that regard. I counted at least three times tonight on a fastbreak where all he did was put his head down, barreled into a Thunder player, made absolutely no attempt to even throw the ball at the basket, and got rewarded with a trip to the FT line. Also got a trip to the FT line because apparently Fisher wasn't allowed to just stand there when Harden shot a jumper.


Yeah, they got their token one win where Harden got gifted a ton of FTs and scored a lot of points. Sure, they didn't have HOward, but we didn't have Perkins who is actually useful against Howard, and obviously we didn't have Westbrook so it kind of evens out. The Rockets don't concern me if we meet them in the playoffs. Both of their wins against us the last two years came at home and Harden needed a 40ish point game...and tonight they got us in a perfect "letdown game" on the second night of a back-to-back. I actually thought we'd lose tonight but it was frustrating losing the way we did when it seemed like Harden was shooting FT's every 3 or 4 Houston possessions.

Burn motherfucker, burn.

[Horry Hipcheck]

How about the Spurs just improve transition D and limit turnovers. We win against anyone. Fuck the standings.

OKC is faster in transition than anyone on the Spurs roster. The trick to beating OKC is to eliminate transition entirely. The Spurs' defense works best when it's set, and in order to be set OKC needs to play the ball from out of bounds. The Thunder like to trap the point at the top of the key, where Parker traditionally likes to set up the offense, and force TOs there or right inside the 3. From there, the fast break has the minimum amount of distance to cover and the defense has the entire court to make up, limiting the amount of help that can be provided. We saw bits and pieces of the Spurs anticipating the fast break last night, it's why there was never anyone under the basket to collect a rebound - everyone was already moving downcourt to prepare for a Westbrick or KD blitz.

The Thunder offense doesn't rely on organized pieces moving to confuse a defense - KD, Westbrick, and Jackson are pull-up shooters and only need to be given space to fire. The Spurs offense, on the other hand, thrives on confusing defenses when not in transition. OKC tends to overwhelm the Spurs because 1) they never fucking miss, eliminating fast break opportunities, and 2) they cut off the extra pass by closing out on shooters quicker than most other teams OR by attacking the point before the play is even run. The fact that they can't seem to commit fouls against the Spurs certainly doesn't help.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I say we throw our game April 14 against the Rockets if it means the Rockets get the 3rd seed over the Clippers.

[Horry Hipcheck]

I say we throw our game April 14 against the Rockets if it means the Rockets get the 3rd seed over the Clippers.

The Spurs should throw it anyway, they'll likely have the 1 seed almost locked by then. The Clips won't cough up the 3 seed, but losing in Houston won't hurt other than giving another West rival a 4-0 season win against the Spurs.

[Budkin]

How about the Spurs just improve transition D and limit turnovers. We win against anyone. Fuck the standings.

tmtcsc with the goods, and of course the best avatar on ST :tu

[thunderup]

I'm not too mad. We'll be alright. Let it all out Spur fan. Live vicariously through other teams' victories over the Thunder. :lol

[TampaDude]

Fear the beard, bitches! OKC can feel their shot at that #1 seed slip slip slipping away...

[Horry Hipcheck]

I'm not too mad. We'll be alright. Let it all out Spur fan. Live vicariously through other teams' victories over the Thunder. :lol

I mean, it helps preserve the lead the Spurs have over OKC, I feel like that doesn't require any explanation.

[thunderup]

I mean, it helps preserve the lead the Spurs have over OKC, I feel like that doesn't require any explanation.
There is a forum wide jizz cloud amongst your kind tonight. It goes farther than seedings, it's gotten personal for yall.

[313]

I'm not too mad. We'll be alright. Let it all out Spur fan. Live vicariously through other teams' victories over the Thunder. :lol
OKC has won exactly zero NBA world championships.

We could be a lottery team this year and still, as a franchise be better off than the Methlahoma City Thunderefs.

[Mikeanaro]

Lol! Thunderkids are going apeshit destroying their winebagos (homes) while their single moms are trying to find a new dad.

[spurs10]

OKC has won exactly zero NBA world championships.

We could be a lottery team this year and still, as a franchise be better off than the Methlahoma City Thunderefs. Truth...:toast

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I'm not too mad. We'll be alright. Let it all out Spur fan. Live vicariously through other teams' victories over the Thunder. :lol

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227890

[TampaDude]

OKC has won exactly zero NBA world championships.

We could be a lottery team this year and still, as a franchise be better off than the Methlahoma City Thunderefs.

:lol

[Horry Hipcheck]

There is a forum wide jizz cloud amongst your kind tonight. It goes farther than seedings, it's gotten personal for yall.

Don't put words in my mouth; all I've said tonight was that a loss in Houston by OKC would give the Spurs a chance to restore the 4 game lead they had before last night with 5 games left. You can light fires all you want, but you'll get more fodder out of robdiaz than you will me.

[RD2191]

Thunderup you're a faggot. Fuck off now.

[RD2191]

Don't put words in my mouth; all I've said tonight was that a loss in Houston by OKC would give the Spurs a chance to restore the 4 game lead they had before last night with 5 games left. You can light fires all you want, but you'll get more fodder out of robdiaz than you will me.

:wakeup

[Horry Hipcheck]

:wakeup

I didn't say it wasn't amusing fodder.

[Kawhi]

Mitchell in meltdown mode

[RD2191]

I didn't say it wasn't amusing fodder.
:wakeup

[Mikeanaro]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lul0az6vLs1r5t60po1_500.jpg

[Horry Hipcheck]

:wakeup

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uzDpepv-Gaw/Uy8eLiiP9xI/AAAAAAABTHA/0tNZU3p9ZrM/s800/chandler+parsons+ashley+sky+Buffalo+billboard.jpg

[Arc]

My ideal standings were

1. Spurs
2. OKC
3. Rockets
4. Clips
5. Portland
6. GSW
7. Dallas
8. Memphis

Spurs have dispatched this iteration of the Grizz countless times with ease in the last 12 months, Dallas could give OKC fits in the first round. Let the Clips walk through Portland to face the Spurs, which is a better matchup for SA than Houston. Meanwhile OKC gets past Dallas to earn a dance with the Rockets, another tough out, before ultimately advancing to the WCF. Or, Houston straight up knocks them out.

But Houston lost the race for the 3 seed long ago.

portland is probably going to fall to #6, making it GS vs houston in the first round.. the winner of that series will be a toss up. houston won the regular season series 2-1, but the two games GS lost iguodala was out..

if GS plays houston in the first round and beats them.. and OKC loses to clippers.. we'll have a tough road to the finals, but not the toughest.. and it's against teams we match up very well against.

[TheGoldStandard]

It's like taking that first sip of a cold soda when you're really thirsty... the burn just tastes so good.

[RD2191]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uzDpepv-Gaw/Uy8eLiiP9xI/AAAAAAABTHA/0tNZU3p9ZrM/s800/chandler+parsons+ashley+sky+Buffalo+billboard.jpg
:lol

[exstatic]

OKC is faster in transition than anyone on the Spurs roster. The trick to beating OKC is to eliminate transition entirely. The Spurs' defense works best when it's set, and in order to be set OKC needs to play the ball from out of bounds. The Thunder like to trap the point at the top of the key, where Parker traditionally likes to set up the offense, and force TOs there or right inside the 3. From there, the fast break has the minimum amount of distance to cover and the defense has the entire court to make up, limiting the amount of help that can be provided. We saw bits and pieces of the Spurs anticipating the fast break last night, it's why there was never anyone under the basket to collect a rebound - everyone was already moving downcourt to prepare for a Westbrick or KD blitz.

The Thunder offense doesn't rely on organized pieces moving to confuse a defense - KD, Westbrick, and Jackson are pull-up shooters and only need to be given space to fire. The Spurs offense, on the other hand, thrives on confusing defenses when not in transition. OKC tends to overwhelm the Spurs because 1) they never fucking miss, eliminating fast break opportunities, and 2) they cut off the extra pass by closing out on shooters quicker than most other teams OR by attacking the point before the play is even run. The fact that they can't seem to commit fouls against the Spurs certainly doesn't help.

They also play the corners tightly, leaving a BIG ass hole right in the middle of their defense. It's still hard to attack the rim, because Ibaka is QUICK to react, but you can make the defense rotate by flashing to the open space and making a pass, and if you can rotate them once, you make another pass to do it twice. You get your open shots. I half think that's why Pop didn't play Ginobili. He didn't want to tip their hand before a possible WCFs rematch, and Manu is GOING to find and exploit that hole. Boris can do it too, if he's playing the 3.

[Horry Hipcheck]

portland is probably going to fall to #6, making it GS vs houston in the first round.. the winner of that series will be a toss up. houston won the regular season series 2-1, but the two games GS lost iguodala was out..

if GS plays houston in the first round and beats them.. and OKC loses to clippers.. we'll have a tough road to the finals, but not the toughest.. and it's against teams we match up very well against.

I'm not convinced the Clips can take out OKC. It'd be a competitive series, but OKC almost feels like a lock for the WCF. IMO.

[r0drig0lac]

:wakeup

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[Horry Hipcheck]

They also play the corners tightly, leaving a BIG ass hole right in the middle of their defense. It's still hard to attack the rim, because Ibaka is QUICK to react, but you can make the defense rotate by flashing to the open space and making a pass, and if you can rotate them once, you make another pass to do it twice. You get your open shots. I half think that's why Pop didn't play Ginobili. He didn't want to tip their hand before a possible WCFs rematch, and Manu is GOING to find and exploit that hole. Boris can do it too, if he's playing the 3.

I too think that Pop wanted to avoid showing the Thunder how he'd attempt to handle their system this close to the POs. It's not "the reason" OKC beat the Spurs last night, but it fits within Pop's mentality and still allowed him to give the bench ample minutes against a full strength Thunder team.

[Arc]

I'm not convinced the Clips can take out OKC. It'd be a competitive series, but OKC almost feels like a lock for the WCF. IMO.

the clippers lead the series 2-1 right now, with one more game to go. main reasons why the clippers match up so well with the thunder, is because the clippers get just as many free throws if not more, and they have guys that are even more athletic. it'll be a fun series to watch, that's for sure.

[tmtcsc]

OKC is faster in transition than anyone on the Spurs roster. The trick to beating OKC is to eliminate transition entirely.


Correct - Limiting turnovers is most important. OKC is great at capitalizing on them because of the reasons you listed. Too fast for us to deal with. So, take care of the ball, make crisp passes and don't get too cute or sloppy when dribbling.



OKC tends to overwhelm the Spurs because 1) they never fucking miss, eliminating fast break opportunities, and 2) they cut off the extra pass by closing out on shooters quicker than most other teams OR by attacking the point before the play is even run. The fact that they can't seem to commit fouls against the Spurs certainly doesn't help.

Having Manu 2014 on the floor will help. i can see him bringing up the ball during the playoffs to save TP the trouble of contending with the traps. Also, SPURS & Co. need to eliminate Ibaka's ability to block shots by giving more ball fakes or attacking at better angles to draw fouls.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

List of NBA teams ranked by free throw attempts per field goal attempts. Guess who's last.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/fta-per-fga

[jARS mEsH sEt]

1

Houston (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/houston-rockets)
0.387
0.412
0.345
0.411
0.364
0.310



2
LA Clippers (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/los-angeles-clippers)
0.351
0.361
0.319
0.371
0.332
0.288


3
Sacramento (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/sacramento-kings)
0.332
0.312
0.314
0.341
0.323
0.271


4
Minnesota (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/minnesota-timberwolves)
0.315
0.219
0.198
0.321
0.309
0.305


5
Brooklyn (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/brooklyn-nets)
0.314
0.286
0.431
0.332
0.298
0.300


6
Denver (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/denver-nuggets)
0.310
0.333
0.272
0.302
0.318
0.310


7
Toronto (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/toronto-raptors)
0.304
0.349
0.520
0.320
0.288
0.274


8
Miami (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/miami-heat)
0.301
0.263
0.182
0.301
0.302
0.299


9
Okla City (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/oklahoma-city-thunder)
0.300
0.330
0.284
0.307
0.291
0.332


10
Charlotte (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/charlotte-bobcats)
0.297
0.327
0.443
0.295
0.299
0.310


11
Phoenix (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/phoenix-suns)
0.296
0.327
0.423
0.306
0.285
0.234


12
Indiana (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/indiana-pacers)
0.291
0.283
0.304
0.294
0.288
0.310


13
Detroit (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/detroit-pistons)
0.289
0.295
0.301
0.295
0.284
0.282


14
New Orleans (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/new-orleans-pelicans)
0.288
0.382
0.608
0.294
0.282
0.248


15
Chicago (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/chicago-bulls)
0.288
0.272
0.192
0.271
0.305
0.263


16
Portland (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/portland-trail-blazers)
0.270
0.244
0.212
0.260
0.279
0.250


17
Utah (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/utah-jazz)
0.269
0.276
0.176
0.283
0.255
0.281


18
Cleveland (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/cleveland-cavaliers)
0.269
0.253
0.308
0.273
0.264
0.265


19
Atlanta (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/atlanta-hawks)
0.268
0.356
0.361
0.288
0.249
0.250


20
LA Lakers (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/los-angeles-lakers)
0.264
0.244
0.208
0.259
0.269
0.340


21
Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/philadelphia-76ers)
0.264
0.258
0.313
0.272
0.255
0.200


22
Milwaukee (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/milwaukee-bucks)
0.263
0.246
0.123
0.261
0.265
0.237


23
Dallas (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/dallas-mavericks)
0.259
0.286
0.244
0.290
0.227
0.242


24
Golden State (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/golden-state-warriors)
0.253
0.149
0.118
0.243
0.264
0.255


25
Orlando (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/orlando-magic)
0.253
0.294
0.253
0.259
0.246
0.197


26
Boston (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/boston-celtics)
0.251
0.249
0.370
0.245
0.256
0.266


27
Washington (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/washington-wizards)
0.250
0.257
0.292
0.261
0.239
0.261


28
Memphis (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/memphis-grizzlies)
0.245
0.175
0.063
0.255
0.236
0.276


29
New York (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/new-york-knicks)
0.244
0.282
0.286
0.266
0.223
0.254


30
San Antonio (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/san-antonio-spurs)
0.243



The first (left) column is 2013-2014.

[Mikeanaro]

That shows how good our team is but we need more calls something decent not a refwhore team of course.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

That shows how good our team is but we need more calls something decent not a refwhore team of course.

I'd be happy with simply getting our expectation value for calls.

Going by those numbers, our expectation value for free throw attempts against OKC would've been .23*(88) = 20 free throw attempts
OKC's expectation value for free throw attempts would've been 23.

[look_at_g_shred]

That loss last night is moot in regards to the standings. Spurstalk, you may now take your seat.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

^ I don't think anyone here is worried about losing the number 1 seed. That wasn't really the concern about last night's loss.

[look_at_g_shred]

^ I don't think anyone here is worried about losing the number 1 seed. That wasn't really the concern about last night's loss.
With the exception of jARS mEsH sEt, your cliff is waiting.

[TVI]

I'm not too mad. We'll be alright. Let it all out Spur fan. Live vicariously through other teams' victories over the Thunder. :lol
Nah, it's just recognition of a kind of kismet. Live by the ref, die by the ref.

[TampaDude]

Nah, it's just recognition of a kind of kismet. Live by the ref, die by the ref.

Oh, look...Joe Crawford reffed the OKC-Houston game last night... :lol

[Captivus]

OKC has won exactly zero NBA world championships.

We could be a lottery team this year and still, as a franchise be better off than the Methlahoma City Thunderefs.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdeblpXt751ryb0hd.gif