REAL PLUS MINUS: Duncan #8, Manu #9, Tiago #29, Parker #39

[Gino-Step]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

No Parker no problems. That boy is overrated. Manu at #9 in the entire league at age 36, and Duncan at age 37 being #8 just shows you how much coat riding Parker has done. By the time Parker is 36, he won't be in the league.

[spurraider21]

your boy kawhi leonard is below Draymond Green, DeMarre Carrol, Jae Crowder, and Mike Dunleavy :lmao

[Brazil]

the parker hater wave trolls are in constant flow each and every year, spontaneous generation after another... have to respect guys like lefty... they hate since 2003

these waves are plain awful

[Brazil]

your boy kawhi leonard is below Draymond Green, DeMarre Carrol, Jae Crowder, and Mike Dunleavy :lmao

not sure how is he going to spin dat one but if I had to bet I guess he will go with the Parker doesn't pass the ball to Leonard or search for leonard + / - when parker doesn't play...

[SpursFan86]

I have serious questions about any stat that has this list as the top 10 SFs:

1) LeBron
2) Iggy
3) Durant
4) DeMarre Carroll
5) Matt Barnes
6) Paul Pierce
7) Mike Dunleavy
8) Melo
9) Jae Crowder
10) Luol Deng

[MeloHype]

Kawhi is below Kobe :lmao

[Mel_13]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

No Parker no problems. That boy is overrated. Manu at #9 in the entire league at age 36, and Duncan at age 37 being #8 just shows you how much coat riding Parker has done. By the time Parker is 36, he won't be in the league.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKG-kbKeIo

[Halberto]

Matt Bonner at 49 while Kawhi is in the 80's...... already a busted stat

[cd021]

I have serious questions about any stat that has this list as the top 10 SFs:

1) LeBron
2) Iggy
3) Durant
4) DeMarre Carroll
5) Matt Barnes
6) Paul Pierce
7) Mike Dunleavy
8) Melo
9) Jae Crowder
10) Luol Deng

go home ESPN, you're drunk.

[101A]

Glossary
Glossery
Glossary


GP: Games Played
MPG: Minutes Per Game
ORPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team offensive performance, measured in points scored per 100 offensive possessions
DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents, coaches and additional factors
WAR: The estimated number of team wins attributable to each player, based on RPM




By what estimation?

[spurraider21]

offensive and defense rating have always been estimates, which is why i dont always care for those figures

[jag]

Kawhi #85

No Kawhi no problems. That boy is overrated. Manu at #9 in the entire league at age 36, and Duncan at age 37 being #8 just shows you how much coat riding Kawhi has done. By the time Kawhi is 30, he won't be in the league.

fify

[HarlemHeat37]

Pretty sure this is RAPM without the prior, right?..

Because when you include adjustments for prior seasons, which makes RAPM the most accurate +/- stat available IMO, Parker has been in the top 5 the past few seasons..

[SpursFan86]

Pretty sure this is RAPM without the prior, right?..

Because when you include adjustments for prior seasons, which makes RAPM the most accurate +/- stat available IMO, Parker has been in the top 5 the past few seasons..

IIRC, it's xRAPM but also uses box score stats and a few other factors like height and coaching.

BTW, Parker is always ranked really low by RAPM. In 2010 and 2011 he had a negative RAPM. In 2012 and 2013 he was positive, but still not in the top 25.

Duncan is the guy who RAPM loves. Since 2000, the lowest he's ever been is 6th in the league.

source: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

[Brazil]

Gino-Step (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42830)

:lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Kawhi is probably low because he doesn't score a ton and is usually guarding the best player on the other team.

[HarlemHeat37]

IIRC, it's xRAPM but also uses box score stats and a few other factors like height and coaching.

BTW, Parker is always ranked really low by RAPM. In 2010 and 2011 he had a negative RAPM. In 2012 and 2013 he was positive, but still not in the top 25.

Duncan is the guy who RAPM loves. Since 2000, the lowest he's ever been is 6th in the league.

source: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

Parker has been in the top 5 in prior-informed RAPM the past 2 seasons IIRC..

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2013-rapm-non-prior-informed-updated-march-30

[Johnny RIngo]

It should be noted that Parker's been pretty fucking awful this season. Shouldn't be surprising that he's coming out poorly in these stats. His numbers were impressive last year though(until he choked in the Finals)

[cd021]

the parker hater wave trolls are in constant flow each and every year, spontaneous generation after another... have to respect guys like lefty... they hate since 2003

these waves are plain awful

amazing how many groups there are on ST . Anti Manu, Anti Parker, Anti Splitter, Anti Green Anti Pop etc.

[Macca76]

the parker hater wave trolls are in constant flow each and every year, spontaneous generation after another... have to respect guys like lefty... they hate since 2003

these waves are plain awful

Brazil, is Gino-Step the new leader of the Parker haters ?

[hater]

amazing how many groups there are on ST . Anti Manu, Anti Parker, Anti Splitter, Anti Green Anti Pop etc.

And yet only one of those players changed sides midseries last year and cost us a championship

[Macca76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKG-kbKeIo

:lol

[ElNono]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

No Parker no problems. That boy is overrated. Manu at #9 in the entire league at age 36, and Duncan at age 37 being #8 just shows you how much coat riding Parker has done. By the time Parker is 36, he won't be in the league.

http://pikof.com/di/E358/its-time-to-stop-posting.jpg

[Brazil]

Brazil, is Gino-Step the new leader of the Parker haters ?

He is not a leader, he is too shitty for that. To be a good leader you have to have some of the following: credibility because you hatin' for a long time (see lefty) or entertaining at least (see tmvpdpoty) or annoying (see kool bob love) or smart (see...yet to be found)... I'm not sure gino step will able to lead anybody with shitty stat list that put Leonard below Mike Dunleavy when all spurs fans are in love with Leonard.

but he is the last "I shit on Parker" troll so there is that tbh

POs are close I fully expect new sleeping trolls to wake up while the old army will do their thing

[Phenomanul]

IIRC, it's xRAPM but also uses box score stats and a few other factors like height and coaching.

BTW, Parker is always ranked really low by RAPM. In 2010 and 2011 he had a negative RAPM. In 2012 and 2013 he was positive, but still not in the top 25.

Duncan is the guy who RAPM loves. Since 2000, the lowest he's ever been is 6th in the league.

source: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

David Robinson led the league every year from 1990 - 1999 (except the year he only played 6 games). :wow #ForeverUnderrated


1990-1991 6.3/200 (Ranked 1st)
1991-1992 8.9/200 (Ranked 1st)
1992-1993 7.9/200 (Ranked 1st)
1993-1994 9.3/200 (Ranked 1st)
1994-1995 9.0/200 (Ranked 1st)
1995-1996 9.0/200 (Ranked 1st)
1996-1997 2.8/200 (Ranked 24th) (only played 6 games)
1997-1998 6.9/200 (Ranked 1st)
1998-1999 8.9/200 (Ranked 1st)
1999-2000 6.1/200 (Ranked 3rd)
2000-2001 8.0/200 (Ranked 3rd)
2001-2002 6.8/200 (Ranked 4th)
2002-2003 6.3/200 (Ranked 7th)

[Macca76]

He is not a leader, he is too shitty for that. To be a good leader you have to have some of the following: credibility because you hatin' for a long time (see lefty) or entertaining at least (see tmvpdpoty) or annoying (see kool bob love) or smart (see...yet to be found)... I'm not sure gino step will able to lead anybody with shitty stat list that put Leonard below Mike Dunleavy when all spurs fans are in love with Leonard.

but he is the last "I shit on Parker" troll so there is that tbh

POs are close I fully expect new sleeping trolls to wake up while the old army will do their thing


They are funny for a while but then Ignore list is their destiny :lol

Thanks anyway for your answer, i know you keep tracks of the trolls !

[Brazil]

They are funny for a while but then Ignore list is their destiny :lol

Thanks anyway for your answer, i know you keep tracks of the trolls !

I don't keep track of the trolls (that's Xmas1997 schtick not mine... without it he would loose his purpose here) but I'm old enough here to know a bit of ST way of doing business

[Splits]

Any stat which has Ricky Rubio in the top 25 is bullshit. He's the worst starter in the league.

[Mikeanaro]

This list sucks MVPatty at #48 enough for me.

[cd021]

And yet only one of those players changed sides midseries last year and cost us a championship


And 2 missed FTs by 2 different players and being out of position on a rebound didn't factor into that?

[gilmor]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

No Parker no problems. That boy is overrated. Manu at #9 in the entire league at age 36, and Duncan at age 37 being #8 just shows you how much coat riding Parker has done. By the time Parker is 36, he won't be in the league.

U know if we win the championship.. Parker is going to be the MVP..

[cd021]

Any stat which has Ricky Rubio in the top 25 is bullshit. He's the worst starter in the league.



Its Perkins and its not even close.-17 net rating, 30% turnover percentage, P.E.R of 6.

Rubio can't shoot but still post high assist numbers even though teams play him for the pass. His assist to turnover ration is insane (career 3:1) gets a ton of steals as well 2.4 (in just 31 mpg)

[ElNono]

He is not a leader, he is too shitty for that. To be a good leader you have to have some of the following: credibility because you hatin' for a long time (see lefty) or entertaining at least (see tmvpdpoty) or annoying (see kool bob love) or smart (see...yet to be found)... I'm not sure gino step will able to lead anybody with shitty stat list that put Leonard below Mike Dunleavy when all spurs fans are in love with Leonard.

but he is the last "I shit on Parker" troll so there is that tbh

POs are close I fully expect new sleeping trolls to wake up while the old army will do their thing

tbh, you're one of the last french posters around... (RIP Bruno :cry). In that sense, the Parker hating has had a modicum of success alienating french posters...

[Brazil]

tbh, you're one of the last french posters around... (RIP Bruno :cry). In that sense, the Parker hating has had a modicum of success alienating french posters...

:lol

yes I guess my fellow country men surrendered to the TP hating

[Kidd K]

You must be joking. Without Parker to hold the line against the BEST UNIT THE OTHER TEAM HAS TO OFFER and wearing them down all night, guys like Manu would have a shitty +/-. Especially if they actually had to face the same units all night.

Duncan being #8 is no surprise but Parker helps with that too. Tiago is probably coattailing it though.

[will_spurs]

tbh, you're one of the last french posters around... (RIP Bruno :cry). In that sense, the Parker hating has had a modicum of success alienating french posters...

I've mostly been lurking (if that), waiting for the playoffs to start. The animosity is just tiring. BTW I didn't know Bruno had quit too?

[ChumpDumper]

I've mostly been lurking (if that), waiting for the playoffs to start. The animosity is just tiring. BTW I didn't know Bruno had quit too?Nah, everyone just makes shit up when someone doesn't post for a couple of days.

[jhfenton]

amazing how many groups there are on ST . Anti Manu, Anti Parker, Anti Splitter, Anti Green Anti Pop etc.

This is what I've never understood. I'm a fan of every Spur on the current team. Off the top of my head, Richard Jefferson was the only recent Spur I had a real dislike for. Why does there have to be a contest between Spurs?

[Brazil]

Nah, everyone just makes shit up when someone doesn't post for a couple of days.

R.I.P Bruno tbh

:depressed

[wildchild]

This is what I've never understood. I'm a fan of every Spur on the current team. Off the top of my head, Richard Jefferson was the only recent Spur I had a real dislike for. Why does there have to be a contest between Spurs?


amazing how many groups there are on ST . Anti Manu, Anti Parker, Anti Splitter, Anti Green Anti Pop etc.

Like a country torn by internal conflicts...Haters, homers and "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" typical groups.

No one can be surprised. Opposite extremes hate, "it's true in sports and it's true everywhere in life" Sad but true.

[SpurPadre]

your boy kawhi leonard is below Draymond Green, DeMarre Carrol, Jae Crowder, and Mike Dunleavy :lmao

So are we Kawhi hating now?

[SpurPadre]

This is what I've never understood. I'm a fan of every Spur on the current team. Off the top of my head, Richard Jefferson was the only recent Spur I had a real dislike for. Why does there have to be a contest between Spurs?

THIS. Except I hate Bonner with a passion and am merely annoyed by Ayres' presence. Other than that, I find it silly when fellow Spurs fans rag on each other for liking a particular Spur to show that their preferred Spur makes them "useless" in their opinion. Spurs are the Spurs to borrow a phrase from Lebron.

[xmas1997]

amazing how many groups there are on ST . Anti Manu, Anti Parker, Anti Splitter, Anti Green Anti Pop etc.



I totally agree with you.



I don't keep track of the trolls (that's Xmas1997 schtick not mine... without it he would loose his purpose here) but I'm old enough here to know a bit of ST way of doing business

Your ignorance, when it comes to misunderstanding motives or schticks, is absolutely atrocious, and that is a complement due to it's absurdity.
I don't have time to keep track of trolls, rather I bash them where and when I find them.
Get it right or continue to look foolish.


Quote Originally Posted by will_spurs
I've mostly been lurking (if that), waiting for the playoffs to start. The animosity is just tiring. BTW I didn't know Bruno had quit too?


R.I.P Bruno tbh:depressed

When did this happen, when did Bruno quit?
If this is true then it is a further indication of the downward spiral this site is going toward IMHO.
He was the last decent mod we had here.

[spurraider21]

So are we Kawhi hating now?
Don't be so damn sensitive. I was pointing out how ridiculously awful these rankings are that OP is using to downgrade the impact of Parker. My Kawhi fanhood is very well documented

[jhfenton]

THIS. Except I hate Bonner with a passion and am merely annoyed by Ayres' presence. Other than that, I find it silly when fellow Spurs fans rag on each other for liking a particular Spur to show that their preferred Spur makes them "useless" in their opinion. Spurs are the Spurs to borrow a phrase from Lebron.
I don't even hate Bonner. I hate it when he's over-used. He's a useful 5th big. He's a terrible 3rd big. And as a person, he seems like a great guy. Ayres is current my least favorite Spur. I'm disappointed in how little he's improved over the season.

[ElNono]

I've mostly been lurking (if that), waiting for the playoffs to start. The animosity is just tiring. BTW I didn't know Bruno had quit too?

didn't know you were french, monami :toast

[Brazil]

Your ignorance, when it comes to misunderstanding motives or schticks, is absolutely atrocious, and that is a complement due to it's absurdity.
I don't have time to keep track of trolls, rather I bash them where and when I find them.
Get it right or continue to look foolish.

and this is a complement due to it's absurdity ? yeah English is my third language but I'm pretty sure that doesn't make any sense... speaking of foolish :lol

You don't have time yet you follow trolls 80% of your time on this site just for calling them out, you look for them dude it's ok tho... speaking of being dishonest :lol

you are an imbecile






When did this happen, when did Bruno quit?
If this is true then it is a further indication of the downward spiral this site is going toward IMHO.
He was the last decent mod we had here.

that's your second schtick right there the downward spiral :lmao

:cry I want to be mod to clean up all the bad trolls of this site :cry

[Brazil]

didn't know you were french, monami :toast

will is the co-founder of the CoT tbh

but as his english is almost flawless and he has no flag it's kinda hard to figure out

I'm happy is back I was feeling alone now that Bruno is gone... rip tbh :depressed

[Sean Cagney]

offensive and defense rating have always been estimates, which is why i dont always care for those figures

Yep, plus minus is the most meaningless stat to me and has been for quite a while. I agree with you fully.
Don't be so damn sensitive. I was pointing out how ridiculously awful these rankings are that OP is using to downgrade the impact of Parker. My Kawhi fanhood is very well documented

Always Manu fans in here hating on Parker which shows me they are not real fans and will be gone when Manu is gone from the team! Quite a few just his country fans or just fans of him alot of times. Who as a Spurs fan can hate Parker so much? Nobody.

[Drom John]

Since this is an RPM thread:

Hmm, by WAR, Ayres is the 35th best center in the NBA, 33rd by RPM, not bad in a 30 team league. Hmm, negative ORPM, but relative to what? Only 11 centers are positive ORPM. Small ball is better plus minus? Offensively Ayres ranks just behind Dwight Howard and just ahead of Timofey Mozgov. That's three guys with bad hands. Eye test passed. What really matters is that Ayres at 35th best center > Blair at 58th (and Belinelli at 38th best shooting guard [83rd DRPM] > Neal at 83rd [91st out of 91 DRPM]).

Hmm, by WAR, Bonner is the 31st best power forward cumulatively even with little playing time in the NBA, 14th by RPM.

Does it pass the eye test? Maybe for Ayres when you realize how poor NBA centers are offensively, yes for Bonner (fabulous spacing, and as a defender, keeps in front of his man and blocks out well). Maybe Ayres and Bonner are the current Ollies.

I'm not sure what Ayres offers other than hustle (and bad hands) but Ayres' WS/48 is also adequate for a backup center.

That said, WS and RPM are quite away apart on Leonard. My eye prefers WS. I've seen a lot of Josh Smith before this year and DeMarre Carroll this year, and I'm amazed that Leonard is behind both in DRPM.

[xmas1997]

and this is a complement due to it's absurdity ? yeah English is my third language but I'm pretty sure that doesn't make any sense... speaking of foolish :lol

You don't have time yet you follow trolls 80% of your time on this site just for calling them out, you look for them dude it's ok tho... speaking of being dishonest :lol

you are an imbecile







that's your second schtick right there the downward spiral :lmao

:cry I want to be mod to clean up all the bad trolls of this site :cry

You might be credible if you had any inkling of what you were saying.
As it is, it is just more foolish drivel and baseless accusations.
How does it feel knowing that next to you Blake is an absolute genius? Or did you not know?
That is no complement either btw.
:lol

[xmas1997]

Yep, plus minus is the most meaningless stat to me and has been for quite a while. I agree with you fully.

Always Manu fans in here hating on Parker which shows me they are not real fans and will be gone when Manu is gone from the team! Quite a few just his country fans or just fans of him alot of times. Who as a Spurs fan can hate Parker so much? Nobody.

And vice versa.

[Brazil]

You might be credible if you had any inkling of what you were saying.
As it is, it is just more foolish drivel and baseless accusations.
How does it feel knowing that next to you Blake is an absolute genius? Or did you not know?
That is no complement either btw.
:lol

:lmao tough guy

moron

[colargol]

The Spurs are the nba team which had the most french players and ST is, i guess, the forum which has the most french posters.
There is a reason....Spur's fans are, as the french people, always ready to shit on their leaders :lol

[hater]

No Parker no problems. That boy is overrated.


Spurs 90 Minnesota 110

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[will_spurs]

didn't know you were french, monami :toast

Yeah I somehow managed to fly under the radar and didn't get flagged :)