Controlling Left Wing Radicals? Where?

[MannyIsGod]

Most know that I'm a democrat but it is time we JFK democrats took the party back from the left wing radicals. While I'm for civil liberties I'm also for protecting the people. But let's hear some better options as well.
Joe, I'm not doing this as anything personal, but...

This is the exact problem when people get repeat what they hear from one mouthpiece or another.

While it may sound great to say that the party needs to be taken from the left wing radicals, what exactly are you refering too? The Democratic Party is far from being controlled by any left wing radicals, and it is really hard to even suggest that left wing radicals have a decent amount of influence in the party.

What have Democrats done in a recent history that could be considered something that is supported by so called Left Wing radicals?

While it may be something that Rush Limbaugh loves to report and spout off on, there is no substance to support what he says.

In regards to civil liberties, the Democrats are not a group of people supporting them any more than Republicans are. Did you not see the margin of victory the Patriot Act recieved? The policies put into effect in places such as NYC with the subway searches recieve support from both sides of the aisle.

More telling, the last candidate for president the Democrats marched across the stage was extremely moderate and tried to apper more Republican every day of the campaign. There was not an ounce of Left Wing radicalism in John Kerry.

Also, the front runner at the moment for the next nomination - while it is a ways off - is another person who recently called for a move more to the right. Hillary Clinton is far from a Left Wing radical.

The truth is that today's Democrats are nothing more than Republicans with a different party symbol. There are supposed issues of contention, but for the most part these issues are either irrelevent in regards to the federal government, or seve as nothing more than hot button campaign issues that make for excellent talking points.

You see, thats the main problem with todays system. Politicians are always campaigning and trying to gain ground on the next election, and the issues that gain the most support are not nessecarily the issues that require the most attention. A culture that cares more about sensationalism doesn't care about the nuances of border security but does care how their elected officials feel about homosexuals.

So, while it is bad enough to sit here and have to listen to people paint a picture where we actually have a 2 party system, it is much worse to have to listen to people say that that either of the parties actually stands for what the other says it does.

Left Wing Radicals? Controlling the Democratic party? From where, the protests they hold in the designated zones miles from the conventions? Or perhaps through the phone calls they make to their elected officials and are ignored because they do not represent a corporate lobby? Or perhaps from aisle 4 at Whole Foods?

Give me a break.

[Duff McCartney]

While I'm for civil liberties I'm also for protecting the people.

I think when we are forced to give up our liberties and freedoms, then the terrorists have won.

There is no land of the free anymore...not that there ever was.

[JoeChalupa]

Good point Manny and I hear what you are saying.
What I mean is that democratic party needs to denounce Moveon.org, Michael Moore, and I don't believe Howard Dean is the way to go.
Nancy Pelosi needs to keep her pie hole shut and learn to lead.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the Democratic cannot be weak on national defense and I'm glad that not all democrats in congress automatically vote against republicans.

Do I agree with all parts of the patriot act. No, but there needs to be a compromise and that is a good thing.

I agree that in all actuallity republicans and democrats are not that much different once they stop their bickering but I think that Karl Rove and his entourage have done a great job of making "liberal" a unpatriotic and immoral thing to be.

I guess I feel that the democratic party has lost some its luster and I want to get it back. The last election was closer than I thought it would be and that was a good sign for me.

Hillary is not a left-wing nut job but that is who she is portrayed on Fox, CNN and the other news networks. If people actually took the time to read up on Hillary they'd be impressed but the bias against her will prevail.

I'm babbling.

[JoeChalupa]

I think when we are forced to give up our liberties and freedoms, then the terrorists have won.

There is no land of the free anymore...not that there ever was.

I concur.

[Nbadan]

The truth is that today's Democrats are nothing more than Republicans with a different party symbol. There are supposed issues of contention, but for the most part these issues are either irrelevent in regards to the federal government, or seve as nothing more than hot button campaign issues that make for excellent talking points.

I was with you up to this point Manny. I don't believe for an instant that had Gore been elected in 2000 that we would be in Iraq right now. Therefore, your comparison between Democrats and Republicans is kinda invalid. Gore would have invaded Afghanistan, of that I have little doubt if 911 had occurred under his administration, but I think Gore would have stayed there and finished the job - even if it meant going into Pakistan.

[Nbadan]

I've often wanted to start a thread called, "What if Sean Hannity is right and Michael Moore, Al Frankin, Moveon.org, George Soro and Ted Kennedy really are plotting to control the world?"

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative11.jpg

[whottt]

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/mmoore2.jpg

What, was Castro already booked up?

[MannyIsGod]

Good point Manny and I hear what you are saying.
What I mean is that democratic party needs to denounce Moveon.org, Michael Moore, and I don't believe Howard Dean is the way to go.
Nancy Pelosi needs to keep her pie hole shut and learn to lead.

Denounce Moveon.org? What the hell? WHY? Is George Bush going to come out and denounce the evangelicals? Why do you feel the need for the Democrats to move farther to the right when they are already much like the Republicans? I don't understand your line of thinking here at all.

Do you know what MoveOn.org is Joe?

Moore is a dumbass, but no more so than the idiots Republicans have working for them. And Moore doesn't run the party, he is simply a private citizen. Let me know when he runs for office.



I guess what I'm trying to say is the Democratic cannot be weak on national defense and I'm glad that not all democrats in congress automatically vote against republicans.

How are they weak on national defense? If you want to be honest about it, BOTH parties are weak on national defense. Where is the border defense we need? Have they provided it?



Do I agree with all parts of the patriot act. No, but there needs to be a compromise and that is a good thing.

You may feel you need to compromise with your civil liberties, but that is absolute bullshit.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin



I agree that in all actuallity republicans and democrats are not that much different once they stop their bickering but I think that Karl Rove and his entourage have done a great job of making "liberal" a unpatriotic and immoral thing to be.

I guess I feel that the democratic party has lost some its luster and I want to get it back. The last election was closer than I thought it would be and that was a good sign for me.

Hillary is not a left-wing nut job but that is who she is portrayed on Fox, CNN and the other news networks. If people actually took the time to read up on Hillary they'd be impressed but the bias against her will prevail.

I'm babbling.
I hate Hillary Clinton, and I've taken enough time to read up on her. I'm sorry Joe, I just feel in your quest to be the moderate you simply repeat what the talking heads say on the radio - you simply repeat half of what rush says and half of what air america says.

[MannyIsGod]

I was with you up to this point Manny. I don't believe for an instant that had Gore been elected in 2000 that we would be in Iraq right now. Therefore, your comparison between Democrats and Republicans is kinda invalid. Gore would have invaded Afghanistan, of that I have little doubt if 911 had occurred under his administration, but I think Gore would have stayed there and finished the job - even if it meant going into Pakistan.
I don't know what Gore would have done, and neither do you. And even the contention you bring up - albeit only a possible one - is only one contention. I give Al Gore different stances on the environment, abortion, and possibly gay marriage, but after that it because the same fucking thing. And 2 of those issues are not Federal issues (gay marriage, abortion).

Would Gore have supported CAFTA? Yes.
Would Gore have supported the Patriot Act? Yes

There's no real way to know how Al Gore would have reacted to 9/11, but you can tell how the rest of the democrats in office acted. Just like the Republicans did.

Or have you forgotten that the Iraqi War Resolution was co-sponsered by last years Vice President Candidate?

[Nbadan]

I don't know what Gore would have done, and neither do you. And even the contention you bring up - albeit only a possible one - is only one contention. I give Al Gore different stances on the environment, abortion, and possibly gay marriage, but after that it because the same fucking thing. And 2 of those issues are not Federal issues (gay marriage, abortion).

You forgot the health care legislation that favors pharmaceuticals, the bankruptcy bill that was written by the industry it was supposed to help regulate and the Bush tax-cut which has produced record deficits and very few real jobs. Once again, I don't think we would have seen a tax cut under Gore, at least, not any cut that didn't start with the word Estate. Of course this is all speculation. I don't know for sure what Gore would have done, but I do know that Gore/Liebermann wouldn't have sounded the drums of war so eagerly in Iraq without the structuring of intelligence against Saddam by the Neocons.

[The Ressurrected One]

I was with you up to this point Manny. I don't believe for an instant that had Gore been elected in 2000 that we would be in Iraq right now.
You're right. We'd be looking a smoking hole that used to be a major American city, somewhere. And, we'd be in several countries...including Iraq.

Therefore, your comparison between Democrats and Republicans is kinda invalid. Gore would have invaded Afghanistan, of that I have little doubt if 911 had occurred under his administration, but I think Gore would have stayed there and finished the job - even if it meant going into Pakistan.
Yep, Pakistan too...

[JoeChalupa]

Denounce Moveon.org? What the hell? WHY? Is George Bush going to come out and denounce the evangelicals? Why do you feel the need for the Democrats to move farther to the right when they are already much like the Republicans? I don't understand your line of thinking here at all.
Where does it say that republicans and democrats need be different on every issue? Just like you said they are alike than most think.
Moveon.org is an extreme left organization, but that is just my opinion and I'm sure you have yours. Because you don't understand my line of thinking doesn't make it wrong, and no, you didn't say it was.


Do you know what MoveOn.org is Joe?

In my opinion is is an extreme left organization who although I may share their beliefs go about things in the wrong way. But again, that is just me.




Moore is a dumbass, but no more so than the idiots Republicans have working for them. And Moore doesn't run the party, he is simply a private citizen. Let me know when he runs for office.

The point is that Michael Moore hurt the party more than it helped and having him sit by Ted Kennedy was ridiculous. Of course he doesn't run the party but you don't parade his ass around either. But again, that is just me.



How are they weak on national defense? If you want to be honest about it, BOTH parties are weak on national defense. Where is the border defense we need? Have they provided it?

What I mean is that we must get back to JFK thinking...

"The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God. 2
We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans—born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage—and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this Nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world. 3
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. 4
This much we pledge—and more."

We must be willing to defend our nation and the notion that many believe that a democratic president will not defend our country must be changed. And to me, that is how I fell many think these days.




You may feel you need to compromise with your civil liberties, but that is absolute bullshit.

Againk, I'm all for civil liberties but damn, a simple search, in my opinion, is not giving away a crucial liberty. But again that is just me. And if you think it is bullshit, well, again that is just your opinion.


Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin

A quote I know very well and it does make me think.



I hate Hillary Clinton, and I've taken enough time to read up on her. I'm sorry Joe, I just feel in your quest to be the moderate you simply repeat what the talking heads say on the radio - you simply repeat half of what rush says and half of what air america says.

Well whatever it is if I'm repeating it it is still the way I think. To me it is the Chalupa Doctrine and I'm stickin' to it.

There are many of us JFK democrats out there and together we will make a difference just wait and see. So what if some say we are going right if right is the right way to go! DAmn right we need to defend our country but we will do when it is necessary not when it is convenient or without knowing the facts first.
Protecting our borders with more stringent inspections at our ports and giving them the funds they need. If we can spend billions on Iraq's security we sure as hell can come up with billions to strengthen our borders.
The war on terrorism must continue but we must take it to where they are like in Afghanistan and capture Bin hiden since I'm almost certain we know where he is and if it pisses off Pakistan than so be it.
My thinking is clear even if is not to others.
God knows I have no idea what runs through Dubya's head but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a plan.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

[MannyIsGod]

What exactly makes MoveOn.org a radical left organization?

[Nbadan]

What exactly makes MoveOn.org a radical left organization?

They're against Bush!

The classic example is always the ad contest that Moveon.org hosted that featured, before it was removed by the site, a ad comparing W to HItler.

:rolleyes

[Duff McCartney]

Againk, I'm all for civil liberties but damn, a simple search, in my opinion, is not giving away a crucial liberty. But again that is just me. And if you think it is bullshit, well, again that is just your opinion

All those simple searches can easily turn into something bigger. That's the way these things are....you give anybody an inch, especially stupid ass politicians, then they instantly believe they can take a yard and you won't be any wiser.

The safety of this country is bullshit. A couple terrorist acts on the country do not outweigh the sacrifice that people have made throughout the history of this country.

I don't care what anybody says, because once the fat cats in charge take it upon themselves to pass laws that shred and rip the constitution a little bit, then the terrorists have acheived their goal.

In a matter of 4 years terrorists were able to change the thing that's been the foundation of this country for 230 years.

I think the movie V for Vendetta says it best...

"People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people."

Once people in this country start to fear the government that takes away their civil liberties no matter how small, then this country is no better than Iraq when Saddam was in power.

[Nbadan]

http://www.therationalradical.com/images03/wallofballsfinal.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Joe, you've made a suggestion about a group now back it up.

[JoeChalupa]

Joe, you've made a suggestion about a group now back it up.

I am backing it up. To me, Moveon.org is a left-wing organization. That is how I see it. Period. I can't back up what you don't see.
To you their message may not be extreme but to me it is.

Again, it is the way I see it and apparently it is not the way you see it. Oh, I was young once and felt like you and Duff do and still do in many ways but the reality of the world in which we live must not be denied.

JFK rocks!!!

[MannyIsGod]

Joe, I understand how you see it, what I'm asking is WHY.

It's obvious MoveOn.org is an organization on the left, but you didn't say left wing, you said RADICAL left wing.

What exactly do you know about MoveOn.org and their actions?

[SWC Bonfire]

If you don't think that MoveOn.org is a somewhat radical organization, you're on crack. If you don't think that the NRA is a somewhat radical organization, you're on crack.

Manny, you don't have to question everything. Some things are self-evident.

[MannyIsGod]

If it is so obvious, then it must be easy to point out a detailed reasoning of WHY.

And for the record, the NRA is not a radical organization either. I don't know what you people have in the water you're drinking, but it is borderline halucinagenic

[JoeChalupa]

Well, I'll give an example of what I mean.
Take for example Massachusetts Congressman Marty Meehan latest voting record.

Two weeks ago he voted to support the dismantling of funding for NASA, the agency born from JFK's vision for the future. This is not a JFK democrat.
While this was a "protest" vote I think he could have a chosen a better way of protesting.

Last week he also voted against renewing the Patriot Act. It was approved.

He also voted against a constitutional amendment protecting the US flag from
desecration. It was approved.

He also voted against the parental notification act for minors crossing state lines with an adult to seek an abortion. It was approved.

He also voted against funding for US troops fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. It was approved.

He also voted against a proclamation supporting our troops valor on teh 1st anniversary of the fall of Saddam. It was also approved.

To me this is a clear sign of catering to the far left wing of the democratic party.

While Meehan and others say they follow their convictions in their votes. I don't think the represent what JFK was all about.

That is the best way I can descibe how I feel about the democratic party right now but I will respond more later.


And Moveon.org has just made some statements that to me are "far left" rhetoric.

But more on that later.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, I'll give an example of what I mean.
Take for example Massachusetts Congressman Marty Meehan latest voting record.

Two weeks ago he voted to support the dismantling of funding for NASA, the agency born from JFK's vision for the future. This is not a JFK democrat.
While this was a "protest" vote I think he could have a chosen a better way of protesting.

Last week he also voted against renewing the Patriot Act. It was approved.

He also voted against a constitutional amendment protecting the US flag from
desecration. It was approved.

He also voted against the parental notification act for minors crossing state lines with an adult to seek an abortion. It was approved.

He also voted against funding for US troops fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. It was approved.

He also voted against a proclamation supporting our troops valor on teh 1st anniversary of the fall of Saddam. It was also approved.

To me this is a clear sign of catering to the far left wing of the democratic party.

While Meehan and others say they follow their convictions in their votes. I don't think the represent what JFK was all about.

That is the best way I can descibe how I feel about the democratic party right now but I will respond more later.


And Moveon.org has just made some statements that to me are "far left" rhetoric.

But more on that later.

Joe, you're a nice person. I've lost a lot of respect for you political opinion, however.

[mookie2001]

Last week he also voted against renewing the Patriot Act. It was approved.


???????
goddam
i would shake this mans hand

[MannyIsGod]

And I don't mean that in a condescending manner. I really don't. You simply dont have a great deal of facts to back up your opinions. You have yet to provide ONE reason why MoveOn.org is a radical organization and you back up your opinion of the Democratic party on the basis of one individual.

[JoeChalupa]

And I don't mean that in a condescending manner. I really don't. You simply dont have a great deal of facts to back up your opinions. You have yet to provide ONE reason why MoveOn.org is a radical organization and you back up your opinion of the Democratic party on the basis of one individual.

Manny, I'm sure you are a nice person too but you sometimes have a hard time understanding someone' who doesn't think like you do...and I don't mean that in a condescending manner either.

When Moveon.org used an ad that compared Bush to Hitler, that to me is "far-left" rhetoric and that example ALONE is enough for me. If it isn't for you than that is your opinion.

But I'm not going to lose any respect for your opinions because you are entitled to and should make your own opinions based on what you believe, not on what others do.

To say you've lost a lot of respect for my political opinions does not bother me in slightest for then I would be upset based on "ONE" persons view.

And I used Congressman Meehan as an "EXAMPLE", never did I say I was basing my opinion of the Democratic party on the basis of one individual for he is not the only congressman or senator who I believe votes this way.

But I still respect your opinion even if it is not necessarily based on what I wrote but on what you read.

[JoeChalupa]

Perhaps I'm just guilty of thinking outside the box.

[Duff McCartney]

Joe if you're trying to go back to the days of JFK Democrats then I'm sorry but you're just a senile old man. No offense. Those days are long gone.

They'll never be like that because the world isn't the same as it was then. That's like me asking you to wear a shirt you used to wear when you were 17 and expecting it to fit.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, I'm sure you are a nice person too but you sometimes have a hard time understanding someone' who doesn't think like you do...and I don't mean that in a condescending manner either.

When Moveon.org used an ad that compared Bush to Hitler, that to me is "far-left" rhetoric and that example ALONE is enough for me. If it isn't for you than that is your opinion.

But I'm not going to lose any respect for your opinions because you are entitled to and should make your own opinions based on what you believe, not on what others do.

To say you've lost a lot of respect for my political opinions does not bother me in slightest for then I would be upset based on "ONE" persons view.

And I used Congressman Meehan as an "EXAMPLE", never did I say I was basing my opinion of the Democratic party on the basis of one individual for he is not the only congressman or senator who I believe votes this way.

But I still respect your opinion even if it is not necessarily based on what I wrote but on what you read.
Joe, I'm sorry, but I simply feel your base your opinions not on firsthand information, but the second hand rhetoric of talking heads. It took you several posts to give a reason why MoveOn.org was a radical organization and the only thing you have is that they supported an ad which compred Bush to Hitler.

I'm not sure if you have seen the ad, but I have a strong feeling you have not. Therefore, you are more than likely basing your opinion on the subject off of what you have heard in places like talk radio.

Your talk of wanting the to revive the party of JFK sounds all great and dandy and might give the warm fuzzies if there was actually substance to the desire other than a few choice quotes.

I'm no fan of the Democratic Party, and I have no need to defend them. I am, however, quite tired of not only rhetoric, but regurgitated rhetoric. It is bad enough to have to listen to so called voices of America spew their garbage without having people parrot them.

There is nothing radical about MoveOn.org or the Democratic Party.

[JoeChalupa]

Joe if you're trying to go back to the days of JFK Democrats then I'm sorry but you're just a senile old man. No offense. Those days are long gone.

They'll never be like that because the world isn't the same as it was then. That's like me asking you to wear a shirt you used to wear when you were 17 and expecting it to fit.

With an attitude like that I can see why you think that way.

Senile old man? I don't think so and I could easily say you are a "young man who is talking from inexperience".
Sorry, no offense but those days are NOT long gone. What has happened is that the party has parted from the old JFK.
There was a time not too long ago when the democrats were the tax cutters and the republicans were the deficit hawks and it can be again.

NOT thinking outside the box has hurt both parties, in my opinion.

I'm not a straight democratic party ticket voter and never will be..well unless all the democratic candadates are clearly better than the other choices.

The image of the democratic party must change. When Kerry stated during his campaign that he "would defend this country will all his will", I think many Americans had bought into the "liberal democrats are weak on defense" rhetoric so cleverly managed by the conservative republican party.

It can be done!!!

[Duff McCartney]

The image of the democratic party must change.

I agree with that, but expecting it to change back to the way it was before is ludacris. There is no way that will happen ever. The image of the party will change, it has to, just like it changed from the "JFK" democrats to what you have now, it will change to something else.

But like I said, it's crazy to want it to change back to what it was before. It will never happen, no matter the attitude, the world is changing too much for that to happen.

[JoeChalupa]

I agree with that, but expecting it to change back to the way it was before is ludacris. There is no way that will happen ever. The image of the party will change, it has to, just like it changed from the "JFK" democrats to what you have now, it will change to something else.

But like I said, it's crazy to want it to change back to what it was before. It will never happen, no matter the attitude, the world is changing too much for that to happen.

Ludacris? Why bring rap music into this? Well, I think you are wrong. What I mean is the way the party needs to go and a JFK philosophy is not as far fetched as you may think.
Many thought that as you do about the Berlin Wall.

[2centsworth]

joe you're realizing that this country needs a viable 3rd party. Republicans are out of control and there is no viable alternative.

[Bandit2981]

Times change though, Joe...Especially since 9-11, the whole political climate has changed. Would JFK still be a "JFK democrat" if 9-11 happened while he was in office? A person's policies and philosophy has to change along with the world and its events as they unfold...things that worked years ago might be considered off the wall these days.

[cecil collins]

Perhaps I'm just guilty of thinking outside the box.

I don't think you do think outside the box. You don't even seem to have your own opinions. All you talk about is how you feel and JFK. Tell me, what was so great about JFK? Also, your reason for why moveon.org is radical was an aforementioned ad in this thread. I think you saw the mention of the ad, then used that to backup your statement...not exactly outside the box. I happen to like Howard Dean, because, as far as Democrats go, he thinks outside the box. I'm gonna go ahead and think outside the box and say, that I would favor some radicalism in the Democrat party. Speaking OTB, I'm gonna say that NASA has been taken over by the republicans, and at this time funding should be cut. Just because Kennedy supported it doesn't mean you automatically should, if you are thinking outside the box. Everyone thinks outside the box, and I doubt you'll find someone who admits to repeating everything they here on the radio. Maybe you should stop using Kennedy as a crutch and think about things...like flag burning.

Is flag burning now illegal? I didn't hear anything about it, and if so that is bullshit. Also, I think you bought into the "Democrats are weak on defense" claim as well, as that was among your first comments on this thread(of course JFK was mentioned as well.)

[JoeChalupa]

I don't think you do think outside the box. You don't even seem to have your own opinions. All you talk about is how you feel and JFK. Tell me, what was so great about JFK? Also, your reason for why moveon.org is radical was an aforementioned ad in this thread. I think you saw the mention of the ad, then used that to backup your statement...not exactly outside the box. I happen to like Howard Dean, because, as far as Democrats go, he thinks outside the box. I'm gonna go ahead and think outside the box and say, that I would favor some radicalism in the Democrat party. Speaking OTB, I'm gonna say that NASA has been taken over by the republicans, and at this time funding should be cut. Just because Kennedy supported it doesn't mean you automatically should, if you are thinking outside the box. Everyone thinks outside the box, and I doubt you'll find someone who admits to repeating everything they here on the radio. Maybe you should stop using Kennedy as a crutch and think about things...like flag burning.

Is flag burning now illegal? I didn't hear anything about it, and if so that is bullshit. Also, I think you bought into the "Democrats are weak on defense" claim as well, as that was among your first comments on this thread(of course JFK was mentioned as well.)

The opinions I express are my own but I agree with some of JFK's vision and views. Howard Dean is not the way to go and he alienates too many democrats. I support NASA and space exploration for the benefits it can bring mankind and deserves the funding it needs. That is MY opinion.
Who the hell is using JFK as a crutch? I'm using him as an example of where I feel the democratic party should be but not as a crutch. I'm not sure where that came from.

NO I haven't bought into the "democrats are weak on defense" BS, that was my whole point. Democrats ARE NOT WEAK on defense. Damn it get it right!

I don't always think "democrats" are always right and the only way to go. That to me is thinking outside the box.
There are many in here who will not question Bush's policies and always spin them to make him look good.

[cecil collins]

You get defensive, but you don't explain your defense. In the first post on this thread Manny qouted you to say, "Most know that I'm a democrat but it is time we JFK democrats took the party back from the left wing radicals. While I'm for civil liberties I'm also for protecting the people. But let's hear some better options as well." I took that to mean that you think the Democrat party is weak on defense, because it was controlled by left wing radicals. Maybe you screwed up and didn't mean it that way, and if so, tell me how I didn't "get it right." I am not a Democrat, but I hate Republicans, and could never vote for one. My choice is almost always Democrat for lack of an alternative. I like the Green party, but that was not on the presidential ballot, and thus I was forced to vote for Kerry. Also, you keep saying "JFK democrats" and I don't know what you think that means. You just seem to support anything having to do with Kennedy.

[Ocotillo]

Howard Dean is not a left wing radical.

Howard Dean is an economic conservative (he believes in balanced budgets)

Howard Dean is anti-Iraq war (if that makes you a left wing radical, sign me up)

Howard Dean says inflammatory things (he is chairman of the Democratic party and part of his job is to motivate Democrats and tick off Republicans)

Most of what people believe about Howard Dean is what the right wing noise machine frames Howard Dean as.

I'd rather have Howard Dean popping off about something that upsets Sean Hannity or Joe Scarborough than the milk toast type of response that John Kerry had when the swift boat goons came out smearing.

[MannyIsGod]

Exactly. Fucking, EXACTLY.

Left Wing Radicals my ass.

[cecil collins]

I never said he was a left wing radical. I said he thinks outside the box(partially as a rip on Joe C.) I just think, as far as the Democratic primary, he would have been my favorite one to be forced into voting for. How could the media find his scream so funny/odd? It was just a rally cry. I swear this country is full of assholes.

[jochhejaam]

Howard Dean says inflammatory things (he is chairman of the Democratic party and part of his job is to motivate Democrats and tick off Republicans)



Howard Dean : Republicans are “pretty much a white, Christian party.”


I wonder how many "White Christian Democrats" Dean alienated with this asinine declaration!

Dean's job is to "tick off Republicans?" I thought maybe his job would be to find "real solutions to real problems"!


Chalupa's right, the Dems have lost their luster.

[cecil collins]

That's what I like to hear. Maybe a couple of jackasses were "ticked off," but who cares. Politicians do too much schmoozing. Is it so wrong to be a human. Evidently so, because he is percieved as a nutcase. Democrats are for republicans.

[Trainwreck2100]

Obviously there is something wrong with the Party when they had 11% vote for Bush this last election. Mostly because of "morality"

[gtownspur]

What exactly makes MoveOn.org a radical left organization?
what makes MoveOn.org a radical left organization is their vitrol for bush and their extremist view on the president. John kerry might not like bush or his policies.. but he wouldnt compare bush to hitler. Moveon.org did

[JoeChalupa]

what makes MoveOn.org a radical left organization is their vitrol for bush and their extremist view on the president. John kerry might not like bush or his policies.. but he wouldnt compare bush to hitler. Moveon.org did

Exactly. Fucking, EXACTLY.

Left Wing Radicals my ass is right!!

And sorry if I wasn't the one to come up with that response but thanks for posting it. And again, if you don't think MoveOn.org is far left than that is your right but it doesn't make mine wrong.

And I DO think Howard Dean is too far left but that is just me.
To each his own.

[gtownspur]

Howard dean is the chair of the party. Trust me. they are the radicals allong with moveon.org.

[JoeChalupa]

Howard dean is the chair of the party. Trust me. they are the radicals allong with moveon.org.

I concur.

[gtownspur]

Howard Dean is slow to judge Osama but quick to hang Delay!!

i mean if you cant see the overt left wing radicalism then you are wrong in every sense. Sorry if you hate labels. But Manny does seem to have a sort of love hate relationship towards the liberal tag. he is liberal, and he's probably ashamed to admit it.

i find nothing wrong with being liberal. Its the way some people back liberal ideology and defend it as well as articulate it that turns many people off as well as myself. and believe me.. if the party doesnt proclaim the middle it will die a slow painful death.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

You guys supply constant humor. Joe didn't even know why he considered MoveOn.org a radical organization until someone posted a reason for him, he focuses on individuals of the Democratic Party in order to say they are radical, and ignores the reality of how the votes Democrats in Congress have made recently have played out.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, next time you decide to use a word to descirbe an organization you may want to know the context it is used in. Radical organizations do not run ads on TV. Instead, they blow up the TV.