Kawhi is a top 5 SF in the league

[apalisoc_9]

Anyone who disagrees is a fucking dumbass or an espn Joke

[sook]

Parsons was better earlier this year, but I think its neck in neck with Leonard having the higher ceiling.

Lebron

Durant














George

Kiwi/Parsons

those are the only notable SFs I can think of tbh so yea top 5 SF isn't really saying something out of the ordinary. Its kind of like how Harden is the best SG, not just because of his talent...but because there aren't many good SGs out there..

[Xylus]

Lebron James
Paul George
Kevin Durant
Arron Afflalo - though he's more of a SG, I guess

Can't really think of any other SF's I'd rather have, so I guess he is Top 5.

[apalisoc_9]

Parsons :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

a rocket has to ruin this thread by mentioning their utter shit of players

[Phillip]

LBJ
George
Durant
Carmello

Parsons
Gay
Pierce
Joe Johnson
Gerald Green
Josh Smith



not even top 10

[Robz4000]

LBJ
George
Durant
Carmello

Parsons
Gay
Pierce
Joe Johnson
Gerald Green
Josh Smith



not even top 10

Rudy G:loly and Gerald Green? Son, there's trolling and then there's delusion...:lmao

[apalisoc_9]

LBJ
George
Durant
Carmello

Parsons
Gay
Pierce
Joe Johnson
Gerald Green
Josh Smith

:lmao



not even top 10

[thunderup]

That's great. You're really convincing us with a thread.

[Phillip]

That's great. You're really convincing us with a thread.
lol when did you get unbanned?

and why were you banned in the first place?

[Kawhi]

That's great. You're really convincing us with a thread.
Hey, hows it going?

[thunderup]

lol when did you get unbanned?

and why were you banned in the first place?
A week or so ago. My banning was due to Avante snitching and me pissing certain other people off.

[Katherine Robinson]

If Leonard is a top five in his position, the disparity between Lebron-Durant and the rest of the league is bigger than Duncan's anus after he's porked by his male secretary.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Parsons :lol

:lol

Leonard will be the future face of our franchise.

Parsons... not so much.

[sook]

:lol

Leonard will be the future face of our franchise.

Parsons... not so much.
Future as in best player? Probably not. And you would have a hard time making a case for Leanord being better than Parsons at the moment. Both are neck and neck, but I admit Leonard has a higher ceiling. Go ahead, try and convince me spurfans :lol

[skut_farkus]

Parsons > kiwi

[Gummi Clutch]

Parsons is being criminally underrated, I think Kawhi is better but probably by a hair. Apalisoc being stupid just like he was upstairs about Patty :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

LOL mentioning that scrub joe johnson and josh smith...

[Gummi Clutch]

LOL mentioning that scrub joe johnson and josh smith...
Johnson is pretty damn good tbh, Josh Smith though? :lol

[Kool Bob Love]

If Leonard is a top five in his position, the disparity between Lebron-Durant and the rest of the league is bigger than Duncan's anus after he's porked by his male secretary.

http://www.playerwives.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/tim-duncans-girlfriend-vanessa-macias-twitter2.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

Johnson is pretty damn good tbh, Josh Smith though? :lol

jj is a scrub man, gets paid max, h2h against top sgs of the league this clown shits the bed....

want to be franchise player by being paid max, leading teams to nowhere...

playing in the easts is misleading when he gets selected for ASG, in the west he be lucky to be coach selection pick

[Katherine Robinson]

http://www.playerwives.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/tim-duncans-girlfriend-vanessa-macias-twitter2.jpg

http://ed_wp-content_v2.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tim-duncan-suspect-elite-daily-7.png

[spurraider21]

http://ed_wp-content_v2.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tim-duncan-suspect-elite-daily-7.png
by this logic nobody in the nba is straight because i can find a similar photo

[Katherine Robinson]

by this logic nobody in the nba is straight because i can find a similar photo

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Tim-duncan.jpg

[Kool Bob Love]

Tim
http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2013/11/22/vanessa-macias_1.jpg

[spurraider21]

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Tim-duncan.jpg
http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/dwight_howard_funny022208104255.jpg

can you name a straight NBA player?

[Katherine Robinson]

http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/dwight_howard_funny022208104255.jpg

can you name a straight NBA player?

Context dictates you provide a photo out of game to reply to my last.

[spurraider21]

Context dictates you provide a photo out of game to reply to my last.
you can cut to any player celebrating after a win and make it look gay. be real

[Katherine Robinson]

you can cut to any player celebrating after a win and make it look gay. be real

I've yet to see such a loving candid moment since Thomas and Johnson exchanged pecks.

[spurraider21]

I've yet to see such a loving candid moment since Thomas and Johnson exchanged pecks.
name a straight NBA player, and not some obscure fuck who never plays

[Katherine Robinson]

name a straight NBA player, and not some obscure fuck who never plays

Zach Randolph

[spurraider21]

Zach Randolph
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/griff-dolph-grab1.jpg?w=295&h=231&crop=1

http://media.commercialappeal.com/media/img/photos/2013/05/16/0516_MASP_griz_thu16_t607.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RSvosCqCQZ4/S0S5gU8nAUI/AAAAAAAAEvE/yaBk-_T98lw/s640/zach%20randolph4.jpg

[Katherine Robinson]

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/griff-dolph-grab1.jpg?w=295&h=231&crop=1

http://media.commercialappeal.com/media/img/photos/2013/05/16/0516_MASP_griz_thu16_t607.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RSvosCqCQZ4/S0S5gU8nAUI/AAAAAAAAEvE/yaBk-_T98lw/s640/zach%20randolph4.jpg

Apples & oranges, nary an embrace and the first is in-game.

[spurraider21]

Apples & oranges, nary an embrace and the first is in-game.
allowing another man to cry on your shoulder, giving your coach a reach-around whilst pulling him closer from his jacket? please. he's a flamer. move on

[Venti Quattro]

Lebron James
Paul George
Kevin Durant


LBJ
George
Durant

How is Paul George higher over Durant?

[Katherine Robinson]

allowing another man to cry on your shoulder, giving your coach a reach-around whilst pulling him closer from his jacket? please. he's a flamer. move on

Tim Duncan was held like a man holds a woman.

Let us proceed...

[spurraider21]

Tim Duncan was held like a man holds a woman.

Let us proceed...
there are no straight NBA players.

Let us proceed...

[TDMVPDPOY]

all i know kawhi is top30 in the leagu

where else the same thing cant be said about that cripple who be earning 48.5 next 2 years to sit on a bench

[Prime Time]

Tim Duncan was held like a man holds a woman.

Let us proceed...
http://i.imgur.com/acOiT7W.jpg

[Mal]

http://i.imgur.com/acOiT7W.jpg

:lmao

[Xylus]

How is Paul George higher over Durant?

They aren't ordered.

[LkrFan]

Tim Duncan was held like a man holds a woman.

Let us proceed...
http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Tim-duncan-500x648.jpg

IDGAF if I'm at a funeral. Every time I see this picture, I'm LMFA:lol

This some gay PORNHUB shit right there!:rollin :lmao :rollin

[LkrFan]

If you look closely, it appears that the Admiral is trying to take his jersey off ever so slightly. Tammy, being the undercover, in the closet, faggot that he is, keeps playing hard to get. RuPaul said he's a lady in the streets but a freak in the bed. :lol

[Killakobe81]

Parsons is being criminally underrated, I think Kawhi is better but probably by a hair. Apalisoc being stupid just like he was upstairs about Patty :lol

I like Parsons but his numbers have to be adjusted for "inflation" ...
Despite his offense being a work in progress, KL would also put up numbers in that style

[Katherine Robinson]

there are no straight NBA players.

Let us proceed...

Tim Duncan being embraced in such a way is about as telling as Chris Bosh burying his face in a another man's behind. What did he whisper in Duncan's ear? His room number?

Christ.

[Leetonidas]

Since Melo has played mostly at PF does that disqualify him from this discussion? If so Leonard might be #4 imo I mean can you really say without a doubt anyone is better than him besides LeBron/Durant/George? Rudy Gay has been good for Sac but he was god awful in Toronto earlier in the season and who else is there? Batum? Deng? Parsons? Kawhi is easily above them at this point

[benefactor]

:lol Rudy Gay...dude is an empty stats cancer, tbh.

[The Gemini Method]

LeBron and Durant are the standard bearers as far as SF goes...then I would put Paul George on a rung or two below. Anything below those three are subject to personal opinion and stat bias. I'd say he is a very good player and could easily be top-5. Maybe when the TOSBs on the Spurs call it a day, he'll get his chance to move among the Kang, Durantator, and Paul George.

[~O~]

Confirmed...with stats.

Gerald Green, Josh Smith......Joe Johnson......Chandler Parsons.....the shame....

Rudy GAY?!!??! *sigh*.....

http://s20.postimg.org/6ef25v4vh/Capture.png

[spurraider21]

Tim Duncan being embraced in such a way is about as telling as Chris Bosh burying his face in a another man's behind. What did he whisper in Duncan's ear? His room number?

Christ.
there are no straight NBA playersPERIOD.

Let us proceed...

[Katherine Robinson]

there are no straight NBA playersPERIOD.

Let us proceed...

Could you imagine? Duncan would let anybody post him up in that situation.

Christ.

[Phillip]

How is Paul George higher over Durant?

it wasn't really in any order when i listed it. i just threw names out. there is no question Durant >>>>>>>> George

[Phillip]

LMAO using PER to say he is a top 5 SF.

Its really easy to look efficient and good when the majority of defensive attention is first going to Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, then to deadly shooters like Green and Mills. Leonard SHOULD be producing efficiently. There is almost no pressure on him at any point. It's not like he is ever asked to go out there and lead the offense and be the main guy. He is basically playing cleanup for everyone. He is extremely well rounded and a decently polished player, but gets massively overrated. If he were put in the same position as guys like Gay, Johnson, or Pierce, where he is counted on to generate the offense, and the majority of defensive attention is focused on him, his efficiency would almost certainly drop heavily.

If he was being used as the #1 option and still had this high of a PER, then he would certainly have a case. But being that he is far down the line in terms of where opposing teams focus their defense, trying to compare his efficiency stats to other guys who receive the majority of defensive attention is absolutely retarded.

[spurraider21]

Could you imagine? Duncan would let anybody post him up in that situation.

Christ.
Facts are facts. I mean I have photographic evidence that even zbo is a butt pirate

[spurraider21]

LMAO using PER to say he is a top 5 SF.

Its really easy to look efficient and good when the majority of defensive attention is first going to Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, then to deadly shooters like Green and Mills. Leonard SHOULD be producing efficiently. There is almost no pressure on him at any point. It's not like he is ever asked to go out there and lead the offense and be the main guy. He is basically playing cleanup for everyone. He is extremely well rounded and a decently polished player, but gets massively overrated. If he were put in the same position as guys like Gay, Johnson, or Pierce, where he is counted on to generate the offense, and the majority of defensive attention is focused on him, his efficiency would almost certainly drop heavily.

If he was being used as the #1 option and still had this high of a PER, then he would certainly have a case. But being that he is far down the line in terms of where opposing teams focus their defense, trying to compare his efficiency stats to other guys who receive the majority of defensive attention is absolutely retarded.
Double edged sword. A guy that low on the totem pole as you claim wouldn't have enough productivity to warrant a high PER, efficiency aside

[Katherine Robinson]

Facts are facts. I mean I have photographic evidence that even zbo is a butt pirate

He grabbed Duncan from behind and around the waist, 21. He nuzzled his face in Duncan's neck and whispered "Does Amy know?". Duncan was speechless, but comforted. He has always preferred the touch of a man.

Let us proceed...

[Phillip]

Double edged sword. A guy that low on the totem pole as you claim wouldn't have enough productivity to warrant a high PER, efficiency aside

So you honestly think the majority of opposing defenses are more worried and gameplan more heavily for Leonard, than they gameplan for Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and the deadly 3pt shooting?

[spurraider21]

He grabbed Duncan from behind and around the waist, 21. He nuzzled his face in Duncan's waist and whispered "Does Amy know?". Duncan was speechless, but comforted. He has always preferred the touch of a man.

Let us proceed...
Oh were at the phase of the argument where you just make shit up? Ok

[Katherine Robinson]

Oh were at the phase of the argument where you just make shit up? Ok

Face it, 21, two men don't embrace like that without romantic feelings. He's being held like a man holds his pregnant wife while Amy is stuck with her mariglade and a wetback lover. Your Duncan loves the touch of men and you're running from the fact like a true spursfan.

Look at ya.

[KL2]

People bring up Leonard's teammates and the system as if they're helping him lol, the only guy I see making an effort of actually getting him the ball is Duncan and a few bench guys, or even setting screens for him on a consistent basis. He gets 0 help from Pop out there, he's found a way to succeed in a system that he doesn't fit in, a coach that refuses to call plays for him, and teammates that refuse to pass him the ball. This guy is a great player period.


Defensively he can guard practically any player, we've seen him on Gasol, Griffin, Nowitzki, Paul, George, LBJ, etc.

[Michael Jordan.]

I like Parsons but his numbers have to be adjusted for "inflation" ...
Despite his offense being a work in progress, KL would also put up numbers in that style
What style?

[Spurcase]

Tim Duncan being embraced in such a way is about as telling as Chris Bosh burying his face in a another man's behind. What did he whisper in Duncan's ear? His room number?


Christ.

Aside from your obvious hate for Tim Duncan, are you really trying to convince anyone that David Robinson is gay? Seriously? I think you must have hit your head harder than you realize. It is one thing to hate a team and its players, but it is another thing to sink so low as you do. You would cheerfully ruin someone's reputation without a qualm,wouldn't you? Grow up for heaven's sale.

[spurraider21]

Face it, 21, two men don't embrace like that without romantic feelings. He's being held like a man holds his pregnant wife while Amy is stuck with her mariglade and a wetback lover. Your Duncan loves the touch of men and you're running from the fact like a true spursfan.

Look at ya.
nope. i have been saying that every NBA player is gay. not hiding from any facts

[spurraider21]

So you honestly think the majority of opposing defenses are more worried and gameplan more heavily for Leonard, than they gameplan for Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and the deadly 3pt shooting?
where did i say that? i think you missed the entire point of my post. read it again.

[Katherine Robinson]

nope. i have been saying that every NBA player is gay. not hiding from any facts

I hope Rob wore a glove that night, 21, Ribbed for Dunc's pleasure. Lord knows he deserved it for saving the franchise.

[spurraider21]

I hope Rob wore a glove that night, 21, Ribbed for Dunc's pleasure. Lord knows he deserved it for saving the franchise.
considering the entire NBA is gay, i'm sure they know how to treat each other

[~O~]

You can't beat stats. In any system, every player's statistics change. It doesn't matter. Kawhi Leonard is posting the numbers so it speaks for itself. The diluting and sampling size of his player ratings is more than fair.

[Killakobe81]

What style?

Free wheeling, wild transition. Jacking 3's. Harden iso's and pnr.
Spurs play uptempo but focus on corners 3's, great ball/player movement.

In other words schoolyard ball led by a shitty coach. A greenlight.

[Michael Jordan.]

Free wheeling, wild transition. Jacking 3's. Harden iso's and pnr.
Spurs play uptempo but focus on corners 3's, great ball/player movement.

In other words schoolyard ball led by a shitty coach. A greenlight.
Makes no sense. If you play within a system, and can't create for yourself outside it, that would lead to inflated stats. If they had a system, his stats might go up.

[Venti Quattro]

They aren't ordered.


it wasn't really in any order when i listed it. i just threw names out. there is no question Durant >>>>>>>> George

Oh okay, sorry for that. Mea culpa

[Phillip]

where did i say that? i think you missed the entire point of my post. read it again.

From what I read, you appeared to say that if he is that low in the order of defensive attention, that he would not be capable of producing enough to warrant the high PER that he has. Thus my question.

If that is not what you meant, then perhaps you should have worded it differently because you did a miserable job of clarifying your point.

Either way, my question still stands, regardless of your point. Do you honestly think that teams in general are game-planning defensively for him, ahead of any of those other things I listed?

[spurraider21]

From what I read, you appeared to say that if he is that low in the order of defensive attention, that he would not be capable of producing enough to warrant the high PER that he has. Thus my question.

If that is not what you meant, then perhaps you should have worded it differently because you did a miserable job of clarifying your point.

Either way, my question still stands, regardless of your point. Do you honestly think that teams in general are game-planning defensively for him, ahead of any of those other things I listed?
It's easy to have higher efficiency when you are lower on the totem pole like Kawhi is. However PER takes into account both efficiency as production. Volume matters as well. And not just wen it comes to points which seems to be your central argument

[sook]

Philip has a point, and spurfans do vastly overrate Kiwi. Don't get me wrong--he is a good player, but Pop's system makes nobodies into rotational players, so it's only logical to assume that it would do the same for Kiwi.

[Phillip]

It's easy to have higher efficiency when you are lower on the totem pole like Kawhi is. However PER takes into account both efficiency as production. Volume matters as well. And not just wen it comes to points which seems to be your central argument

No one said he doesn't have good numbers or decent volume. Did I ever say that at all? All I implied is that since so much defensive attention is first given to Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, then to the 3pt shooting, that KL gets lots of very open and easy looks. He does a great job of converting the open opportunities he gets, and certainly deserves credit for that. But I don't see him consistently upholding that type of efficiency or those PER ratings if more defensive attention gets directed to him. Spurfans definitely overrated him massively, which is nothing we don't expect, considering how basically every season over the past 10 years, there is some role player that half the fanbase is 100% certain will be a future all-star in the league (often due to Pop knowing how to maximize talent better than anyone as sook referenced), whether its Devin Brown, Fabricio Oberto, Beno Udrih, Roger Mason, George Hill, DeJuan Blair, James Anderson, or Kawhi Leonard. :rolleyes

Leonard is a very solid role player. Very solid. But nothing more than that. He isn't a star.

[HarlemHeat37]

Pop's system hurts Leonard's game more than it helps it, tbh, see: Richard Jefferson..

Pop's system is extremely overrated:lol..

[Michael Jordan.]

CROFL shitting on Pop's system.

[HarlemHeat37]

His system is the best in the league, it's still really overrated, considering the players rarely receive credit for their contributions..

Pop is the only coach in the league that receives credit for winning short handed games, despite other coaches doing it frequently..

[Phillip]

His system is the best in the league, it's still really overrated, considering the players rarely receive credit for their contributions..


lol wut?

Tony Parker was somehow getting consideration for the MVP award the last few years, with plenty of media idiots even considering him the favorite at times, even though he isn't the MVP of his own team. It's still Duncan, always has been.

The players get more credit than you suggest.

[HarlemHeat37]

Tony Parker is the most overrated player in the league, as I've been saying for the past 2 years..with that being said, Parker is still an elite PG that the Spurs couldn't win big games without, despite "Pop's system"..

The rest of the team, including Duncan, doesn't receive nearly enough credit, up until Leonard's recent hype(which has made him overrated, as of late)..

The Spurs aren't the most talented team at the #1 position, but from 2 to 10, they're one of the most talented teams in the league..Pop's system didn't look special when he was playing Finley, Bogans and Mason at the wings..it didn't look special when he chose to bench Splitter in favor of Bonner and Blair..

He's not some magician, like the majority of non-Spurs fans seem to believe..

[Michael Jordan.]

Diaw looks good again. That's really all that needs to be said.

[HarlemHeat37]

Sure, it has nothing to do with losing a lot of weight, playing with his close friends and coming off one of the most crushing defeats in NBA history(which he himself has admitted to playing a factor in motivating him)..

[HarlemHeat37]

Meanwhile, Gary Neal looks just as good in Charlotte's poor offense, and Richard Jefferson is having a resurgence playing for one of the worst coaches in the league:lol..

[spurraider21]

Spurfan has been begging for Kawhi to be more actively involved in the offense for a while, as pops system doesn't really allow him to do much outside of transition. He's starting to get more aggressive with his chances. But pops system isn't catering to Kawhi at all

[Brazil]

Diaw looks good again. That's really all that needs to be said.

Not a good argument tbh

Boris is motivated when he plays for a serious team. I'm pretty sure he would play great basketball too with the heat, okc, clippers etc... Dude is talented as fuck, he can adapt to any team, his issue is motivational.

[Brazil]

It's maybe cliche but still right to play a great system you need great players. Spurs squad is loaded with talents, pop deserves a lot of credit sure but saying his system could transform a noodle into a starting nba player is dumb

[Michael Jordan.]

:lol why do people keep saying the Spurs are loaded with talent?

[Venti Quattro]

Pop's system doesn't have a lot of talent when deconstructed to the individual level. However when you bring them together with Pop as the guy in charge, it's a collection of guys who know how to listen well to someone who has an idea of what he's doing

[spurraider21]

:lol why do people keep saying the Spurs are loaded with talent?
wut

[Venti Quattro]

wut

They're not loaded with talent. It's Tim, Tony, Manu and a band of role players who know their role and play to it very well

[spurraider21]

They're not loaded with talent. It's Tim, Tony, Manu and a band of role players who know their role and play to it very well
if you define "talent" strictly as all-star caliber players, fine. i think contender rotation players would be considered talent.

[Venti Quattro]

if you define "talent" strictly as all-star caliber players, fine. i think contender rotation players would be considered talent.

Kawhi wouldn't be the first-choice in other contending teams. Ditto with Danny Green who was a Ray Allen three pointer away from a FMVP. A lot of the Spurs role players would ride the end of the bench in other teams. Ayres would be in the D-League by now if he wasn't with SA. But the fact that Pop gave these guys a chance and they are paying him off by listening is already incredible.

[Gummi Clutch]

Kawhi wouldn't be the first-choice in other contending teams. Ditto with Danny Green who was a Ray Allen three pointer away from a FMVP. A lot of the Spurs role players would ride the end of the bench in other teams. Ayres would be in the D-League by now if he wasn't with SA. But the fact that Pop gave these guys a chance and they are paying him off by listening is already incredible.
I like this guy's takes.

[spurraider21]

Kawhi wouldn't be the first-choice in other contending teams. Ditto with Danny Green who was a Ray Allen three pointer away from a FMVP. A lot of the Spurs role players would ride the end of the bench in other teams. Ayres would be in the D-League by now if he wasn't with SA. But the fact that Pop gave these guys a chance and they are paying him off by listening is already incredible.
i never said Kawhi would be the first choice lol, or Green for that matter. that was never my criteria for being considered talent. Duncan/Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Green/Splitter/Diaw are all very good players, and Patty/Marco are good sparks. Guys like Ayres, Bonner, Joseph, Daye, Baynes won't be big rotation players in the playoffs

[Venti Quattro]

i never said Kawhi would be the first choice lol, or Green for that matter. that was never my criteria for being considered talent.

Our standard or baseline of "talent" in this convo is All-Star pull. You already mentioned one. Another is if the guy will start or finish the game for another contender coach aside from Pop.

[spurraider21]

Our standard or baseline of "talent" in this convo is All-Star pull. You already mentioned one. Another is if the guy will start or finish the game for another contender coach aside from Pop.
like i said, i didnt have my baseline for talent as "all star" otherwise there are only 30 talented players in the nba, which is just not the case. if other teams are too stupid to not use an elite 3 and D player like Green, that speaks of their coaching staff, not Green's talent.

[KL2]

Kawhi wouldn't be the first-choice in other contending teams. Ditto with Danny Green who was a Ray Allen three pointer away from a FMVP. A lot of the Spurs role players would ride the end of the bench in other teams. Ayres would be in the D-League by now if he wasn't with SA. But the fact that Pop gave these guys a chance and they are paying him off by listening is already incredible.

Ayres sucks, clearly you know nothing about the Spurs :lol

[Michael Jordan.]

Parsons > kiwi
Yeah, Kawhi is a better defender though. And Parsons was a 2nd rounder.

[spurraider21]

And Parsons was a 2nd rounder.
nice tidbit but irrelevant to the question at hand

[Michael Jordan.]

nice tidbit but irrelevant to the question at hand
I already responded to the question at hand with my first sentence.

[Brazil]

:lol since when talents mean all stars ? Spurs squad is yes loaded with talented players outside the big 4, green, tiago, Boris, patty, Marco are talented players who fit well, listen to their coach and smart enough to play the system. Pop famous system needs high iq players.

[Killakobe81]

Pop's system hurts Leonard's game more than it helps it, tbh, see: Richard Jefferson..

Pop's system is extremely overrated:lol..

Wait ... wHAT?!

[Killakobe81]

Tony Parker is the most overrated player in the league, as I've been saying for the past 2 years..with that being said, Parker is still an elite PG that the Spurs couldn't win big games without, despite "Pop's system"..

The rest of the team, including Duncan, doesn't receive nearly enough credit, up until Leonard's recent hype(which has made him overrated, as of late)..

The Spurs aren't the most talented team at the #1 position, but from 2 to 10, they're one of the most talented teams in the league..Pop's system didn't look special when he was playing Finley, Bogans and Mason at the wings..it didn't look special when he chose to bench Splitter in favor of Bonner and Blair..

He's not some magician, like the majority of non-Spurs fans seem to believe..

Wait, what? No magician but a great fucking coach.
And some Spur fans criticize him unfairly yet others praise him so I dont think he is overrated on Spurstalk.
Media loves him unabashedly.

[HarlemHeat37]

He isn't overrated at all on ST..every fanbase unfairly criticizes their coach, tbh..

He's easily overrated in the media and by other fans, though..people act like Pop doesn't have talented players, and that he magically transforms them into NBA-caliber players:lol..

And my point about Leonard is that he's treated like a spot-up shooter in Pop's system, despite being able to offer much more, as we have seen the past few weeks(with increased touches, finally)..Richard Jefferson was also relegated to a spot-up shooter, as well..

[HI-FI]

Wait, what? No magician but a great fucking coach.
And some Spur fans criticize him unfairly yet others praise him so I dont think he is overrated on Spurstalk.
Media loves him unabashedly.
Media likes him because he's unique and successful. Spursfan has a lot of love/hate or daddy issues with Pop, but he's definitely a great coach and a big part of Spurs' lore.
I also wonder if the media showcasing him or his soundbytes comes from the top, ie Silver. I remember Silver saying he thought the Spurs' weren't appreciated enough by the media for what they've accomplished. Some truth to that.

[timtonymanu]

They're not loaded with talent. It's Tim, Tony, Manu and a band of role players who know their role and play to it very well

I agree with you that Leonard isn't a first-option at the moment and is a little overrated by Spurs fans, but I think he's more than just a "role player". He's already better than Manu at this point and if he can raise his level of play even more next season, he won't be far off from Tim and Tony.

[Killakobe81]

He isn't overrated at all on ST..every fanbase unfairly criticizes their coach, tbh..

He's easily overrated in the media and by other fans, though..people act like Pop doesn't have talented players, and that he magically transforms them into NBA-caliber players:lol..

And my point about Leonard is that he's treated like a spot-up shooter in Pop's system, despite being able to offer much more, as we have seen the past few weeks(with increased touches, finally)..Richard Jefferson was also relegated to a spot-up shooter, as well..

Some great points ...even Phil was criticized. Maybe he is limiting KL to a degree but just like Phil with young Kobe or Dean smith with young Mj it could pay-off down the road.
Good thing is doesn't appear KL has the ego of either guy ...
Also sounds like you agree that in the Rox system (or lack there of) KL could do more ...

[spurraider21]

Kawhi's efficiency would drop on another team but his production would increase. I doubt the PER would fall off much or at all

[Venti Quattro]

I agree with you that Leonard isn't a first-option at the moment and is a little overrated by Spurs fans, but I think he's more than just a "role player". He's already better than Manu at this point and if he can raise his level of play even more next season, he won't be far off from Tim and Tony.

Kawhi's star potential is there. He should just get those goddamn awful braids off and shave his head

[Killakobe81]

I agree with you that Leonard isn't a first-option at the moment and is a little overrated by Spurs fans, but I think he's more than just a "role player". He's already better than Manu at this point and if he can raise his level of play even more next season, he won't be far off from Tim and Tony.

Spurs are very talented. Duncan and a healthy Parker are the only sure fire #1 or #2 on whatever team they are on ...But Tiago Mills, Diaw, Manu and Belli are better than every team's 6-10 ...
Not only cuz they are disciplined and flows Pop's system but because they have talent. Except tiago (who is Ok for a big man) all those guys can pass, shoot and create for their team-mates off the ball and player movement Pop's system dictates.

Spurs are like Europes top team led by 3 HOF'ers ... (Big 3)

Pop deserves credit for reviving Diaw, unleashing Patty Mills, and molding Green in to a third world country Bowen and for signing off on the Hill for KL.

[sook]

Seconded on those braids, reminds me too much of Stephen Jackson, AI, Spree...has there ever been a likeable player in the league with cornrows?

[Killakobe81]

Doubt KL can be a superstar. I see fringe all-star to solid all-star potential.

[Raven]

Doubt KL can be a superstar. I see fringe all-star to solid all-star potential.
Kobe was voted to the all star so leonard is already above that. Well, so is every player in the league at this point..

[timtonymanu]

Spurs are very talented. Duncan and a healthy Parker are the only sure fire #1 or #2 on whatever team they are on ...But Tiago Mills, Diaw, Manu and Belli are better than every team's 6-10 ...
Not only cuz they are disciplined and flows Pop's system but because they have talent. Except tiago (who is Ok for a big man) all those guys can pass, shoot and create for their team-mates off the ball and player movement Pop's system dictates.

Spurs are like Europes top team led by 3 HOF'ers ... (Big 3)

Pop deserves credit for reviving Diaw, unleashing Patty Mills, and molding Green in to a third world country Bowen and for signing off on the Hill for KL.

Yeah the Spurs easily have talent. Pop's system is good but like Harlem said, I do think Pop gets too much credit. Joseph/Bonner/Errors/Baynes still don't look like NBA caliber players even though they are in Pop's "system." Danny Green would be the only good argument about how Pop can turn garbage players into NBA players, even though I think Green has shown he's more than one-dimensional as an NBA player.

[Michael Jordan.]

Yeah the Spurs easily have talent. Pop's system is good but like Harlem said, I do think Pop gets too much credit. Joseph/Bonner/Errors/Baynes still don't look like NBA caliber players even though they are in Pop's "system." Danny Green would be the only good argument about how Pop can turn garbage players into NBA players, even though I think Green has shown he's more than one-dimensional as an NBA player.
Good coaches win with what they have.

[HarlemHeat37]

Pop has never won a title without a top 3 player:lol..he's no different than any other great coach..

[Michael Jordan.]

Yeah the Spurs easily have talent. Pop's system is good but like Harlem said, I do think Pop gets too much credit. Joseph/Bonner/Errors/Baynes still don't look like NBA caliber players even though they are in Pop's "system." Danny Green would be the only good argument about how Pop can turn garbage players into NBA players, even though I think Green has shown he's more than one-dimensional as an NBA player.
Also, if he continues winning with those players, it's still his system.

[Michael Jordan.]

Pop has never won a title without a top 3 player:lol..he's no different than any other great coach..

You really resorting to that?

[ElNono]

Pop is a coach that knows how to maximize talent. That's the biggest trait of all great coaches. Outside the actual core, they put subpar talent on a system and make it work. It's why players like Sasha Vujacic or Shannon Brown even had a career in the NBA.

You always need the core of star/solid players. Pop knows that well, but we're in a league where your 1st and 2nd option will eventually get shut down, and you're going to need contributions from your other guys. That's when great coaches shine.

[chief keef]

LB
Durant
Melo
George
Deng

Then you've got Kiwi fighting with some other niggas like Parsons and Gay for the next spot.

[ElNono]

^ Deng has fallen off a cliff... he was already awful in Chicago earlier in the season. Solid list otherwise.

[chief keef]

naw deng was still solid for us early on, the 2 way game was great.

did him dirty trading him to the worst state in the union. now he has nothing to play for

[GuerillaBlack]

:lol

Leonard will be the future face of our franchise.

Parsons... not so much.

Why does spursfan believe this? Kawhi isn't carrying a team anywhere. He isn't a number one.

[spurraider21]

LBJ
George
Durant
Carmello

Parsons
Gay
Pierce
Joe Johnson
Gerald Green
Josh Smith



not even top 10
:lmao



Parsons > kiwi


Yeah, Kawhi is a better defender though. And Parsons was a 2nd rounder.
:lol so 3 months ago it was Parsons > Kawhi, but now that he left Houston, you describe him as a player who is a worse defender than James Harden and can't create his own shot. :rollin

[Leetonidas]

If we're not putting LBJ and Melo in the PF category (iirc they have been playing most of their minutes there, no?) then Kawhi is still top 5 imo but without them he's the 3rd best behind KD/George.

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Carmelo
4. George
5. Leonard

[spurraider21]

I still like George at 3 over Melo, though it will be interesting to see how PG performs this year. Lance is gone, West will probably decline, and we really can't expect much out of Hibbert anymore. If he has a down year, I'll eat my crow on that one. Maybe I just really dislike Melo

[Leetonidas]

I think George will surpass Anthony next season or tie him most likely. I don't really like fatass Melo but he is a beast, no denying it. Too bad that team in NY is a fucking disaster

[spurraider21]

:lol at melo forcing a trade there midseason instead of waiting for free agency. they sent most of their core over in that trade

[FkLA]

:lmao

:lol so 3 months ago it was Parsons > Kawhi, but now that he left Houston, you describe him as a player who is a worse defender than James Harden and can't create his own shot. :rollin

lol dumbjohn has got to be the biggest faggot on this site tbh

[100%duncan]

:lol

[AaronY]

ROFL @ Gerald Green being better than him

[Jenks]

:lol so 3 months ago it was Parsons > Kawhi, but now that he left Houston, you describe him as a player who is a worse defender than James Harden and can't create his own shot. :rollin

Solid bump :tu

[apalisoc_9]

Parsons was better earlier this year, but I think its neck in neck with Leonard having the higher ceiling.

Lebron

Durant














George

Kiwi/Parsons

those are the only notable SFs I can think of tbh so yea top 5 SF isn't really saying something out of the ordinary. Its kind of like how Harden is the best SG, not just because of his talent...but because there aren't many good SGs out there..


Lebron James
Paul George
Kevin Durant
Arron Afflalo - though he's more of a SG, I guess

Can't really think of any other SF's I'd rather have, so I guess he is Top 5.


LBJ
George
Durant
Carmello

Parsons
Gay
Pierce
Joe Johnson
Gerald Green
Josh Smith



not even top 10


Parsons > kiwi


LB
Durant
Melo
George
Deng

Then you've got Kiwi fighting with some other niggas like Parsons and Gay for the next spot.


Why does spursfan believe this? Kawhi isn't carrying a team anywhere. He isn't a number one.


Solid bump :tu


:lol

[DAF86]

LBJ
George
Durant
Carmello

Parsons
Gay
Pierce
Joe Johnson
Gerald Green
Josh Smith



not even top 10

lol dumb faggot

[DAF86]

So many bump material posts in here that I won't even do it.

[spurraider21]

:lol parsons

[spursistan]

:lol parsons
:lmao

[spursistan]

Wonder if it is the leg injury, but seems to me like Paul George has stagnated a bit..

[HarlemHeat37]

Nobody that isn't a homer could have predicted Kawhi's rise to a top 3 player, but some of the names in this thread are outrageous, tbh:lol

Chandler Parsons has never been anything more than a slightly above average player..if he was Black, you would never hear his name..

Btw, the transformation of Rockets fan has been fascinating..they used to be the biggest homers of any fanbase on ST, constantly overrating their own players and believing their team would be much better than they actually are..the past 2 years, they have become extremely pessimistic and anti-Rockets..