Bundy ranch situation in Nevada

[InRareForm]

http://rt.com/usa/bundy-ranch-nevada-tensions-940/

[boutons_deux]

Oath Keepers! :lol

gun fellators! :lol

patriots! :lol

water the tree! :lol

We illiterate highschoolers KNOW "our" Constitution they way WE want to know it! :lol

[boutons_deux]

Meanwhile, next door in AZ, another Oath Keeper hero sheriff is bitching about being victimized :lol

Sheriff Joe Arpaio sniffs: ‘No one seems to care’ about anti-Italian racism against me

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/11/sheriff-joe-arpaio-sniffs-no-one-seems-to-care-about-anti-italian-racism-against-me/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[TeyshaBlue]

So 200 warrior cops is ok because you dont like rural folks. Got it.

[boutons_deux]

So 200 warrior cops is ok because you dont like rural folks. Got it.

the cops have official authority, the redneck gun fellators got none beyond what their paranoid imaginations anoint them with. If the shootin starts, your redneck buddies gonna die.

[SnakeBoy]

So 200 warrior cops is ok because you dont like rural folks. Got it.

Well cows did steal some federal grass.

[TeyshaBlue]

There's about a hundred ways to resolve this without armed (wtf?) BLM agents accelerating a standoff.
But it's ok if they're killed because that gives you more graves upon which to dance. Got it.

[boutons_deux]

There's about a hundred ways to resolve this without armed (wtf?) BLM agents accelerating a standoff.
But it's ok if they're killed because that gives you more graves upon which to dance. Got it.

25 years the govt has been trying to resolve it. the rancher won't pay.

You Lie

But it does seem like the only way to shut these redneck patiort gun fellators up is to call their dickless bluffing.

[TeyshaBlue]

Grazing is worth killing ranchers over. Got it. :facepalm

Of course, now the police are holy, unblemished warriors doing the progressive's work.

smh

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219383&page=2&p=7011586&viewfull=1#post7011586
A whole page of bouton's unhinged rants/cut and paste orgy.

But this time its ok because rural.

[TSA]

It is all starting to make sense now....


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's desert plant


Reuters) - U.S. Senator Harry Reid recognized nine years ago that connections between his official duties and the lobbying activities of his relatives could lead to ethical questions.

In 2003, the Nevada Democrat publicly banned relatives from lobbying him or his staff after newspaper reports showed that Nevada industries and institutions routinely turned to Reid's sons or son-in-law for representation.

Now, questions surrounding family ties are flaring again in Nevada around the Senate majority leader. He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.

Reid has been one of the project's most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada. His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.

Craig Holman, a lobbyist for the non-partisan advocacy group Public Citizen, said the senator is dealing with "an iffy ethical landscape" because of the family connections and should recuse himself from the project. "Is this just happening because ... it benefits the Reid family, or did Harry Reid actually believe in this?" Holman said.

The senator has supported numerous clean energy projects in Nevada. Rory Reid cites energy as one of his specialty areas at the law firm.

The two Reids deny discussing the ENN project.

"I have never discussed the project with my father or his staff," said Rory Reid. Kristen Orthman, a spokeswoman for the senator, said he had not discussed the project with his son.

The Langfang, China-based ENN Energy Group hopes to build what would be the largest solar energy complex in America. The site chosen with Rory Reid's guidance is in tiny Laughlin, Nevada, a gambling town of 7,300 along the Colorado River, 90 miles south of Las Vegas.

County officials have said that they were so thrilled to recruit a company to the area, with the prospect of thousands of new local jobs, that they were eager to negotiate.

ENN is headed by Chinese energy tycoon Wang Yusuo, who made a fortune estimated by Forbes at $2.2 billion distributing natural gas in China. Wang escorted Reid and a delegation of nine other U.S. senators on a tour of the company's clean energy operations in Langfang, and Reid featured Wang as a speaker at his 4th annual National Clean Energy Summit in Las Vegas last year.

NEVADA'S LARGEST LAW FIRM

To advance the Nevada project, ENN retained the state's largest and most prestigious law firm - Lionel Sawyer & Collins, where Rory Reid works. It is headed by Richard Bryan, a former Nevada attorney general, governor and member of the U.S. Senate.

Rory Reid faced a one-year cooling off period from lobbying the Clark County commission after leaving his post in January 2011, and Bryan took the lead on ENN's negotiations with the county.

Since the one-year ban expired, Rory Reid has been ENN's primary representative before the county, according to Steve Sisolak, the board's vice chairman.

Rory Reid acknowledged representing ENN at both the county and state levels since January. He declined to discuss the project otherwise.

Two months after Harry Reid's China trip, Lionel Sawyer registered ENN Mohave Energy LLC as an American subsidiary of the Chinese company. The firm negotiated with the county to buy the land rather than lease it, as the county's staff had recommended.

In December, Clark County commissioners voted unanimously to sell up to 9,000 acres of public land to the subsidiary at pennies on the dollar.

The deal spurred local controversy. Separate appraisals valued the land at $29.6 million and $38.6 million. The commission agreed to sell it to ENN for $4.5 million.

The county did build in certain conditions before the project could begin, including milestones for jobs creation and investment. ENN also must assure the county that it has a power company willing to commit to buying energy from the solar farm. But in the eight months since the commissioners approved the deal, no utility has signed a power purchase agreement.

However, Harry Reid stepped up again.

The Democrat recently used an online discussion related to his annual energy summit for an as-yet unsuccessful effort to pressure Nevada's largest power company, NV Energy, to sign up as ENN's first customer.

In the July 30 discussion, Reid said the project "would start tomorrow if NV Energy would purchase the power." The utility controls "95 percent of all of the electricity that is produced in Nevada and they should go along with this." Reid's online comments were first reported by the Las Vegas Review Journal.

The power company responded by saying it had exceeded its minimum renewable energy requirements both last year and this year, though it would consider buying power from ENN in the future. A spokesman for NV Energy declined to discuss the matter further.

Bryan, the head of the law firm, did not return repeated phone calls and emails.

An official with ENN in Langfang did not respond to emails.

In 2007, after a controversy over the number of lawmaker relatives engaged in lobbying, Congress passed the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, sharply restricting the lobbying activities of close relatives of members of Congress.

The law only applies to registered lobbyists and Rory Reid is not registered as a federal lobbyist in Washington or a state lobbyist in Nevada, according to records in both jurisdictions.

[TSA]

http://toprightnews.com/?p=2422

Website FreeRepublic Exposes BLM “document dump” that suggests attempted cover-up of Sen. Reid/Chinese gov’t takeover of ranch for solar farm.

The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.


Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states.



Another BLM report entitled Regional Mitigation Strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone (BLM Technical Note 444) reveals that Bundy’s land in question is within the “Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone and surrounding area” which is part of a broad U.S. Department of Energy program for “Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States” on land “managed” by BLM.

“In 2012, the BLM and the U.S. Department of Energy published the Final Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement (PEIS) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States,” the report reads. “The Final Solar Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement assessed the impact of utility-scale solar energy development on public lands in the six southwestern states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah.”

“The Approved Resource Management Plan Amendments/Record of Decision (ROD) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States implemented a comprehensive solar energy program for public lands in those states and incorporated land use allocations and programmatic and SEZ-specific design features into land use plans in the six-state study area.”

Back in 2012, the New American reported that Harry Reid’s son, Rory Reid, was the chief representative for a Chinese energy firm planning to build a $5-billion solar plant on public land in Laughlin, Nevada.

And journalist Marcus Stern with Reuters also reported that Sen. Reid was heavily involved in the deal as well.

“[Reid] and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert,” he wrote. “Reid has been one of the project’s most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada.”

“His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.”

Although these reports are in plain view, the mainstream media has so far ignored this link.

The BLM’s official reason for encircling the Bundy family with sniper teams and helicopters was to protect the endangered desert tortoise, which the agency has previously been killing in mass due to “budget constraints.”

“A tortoise isn’t the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher; they want his land,” journalist Dana Loesch wrote. “The tortoise wasn’t of concern when [U.S. Senator] Harry Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore.”

“Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests,” she added. “BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”

“If only Clive Bundy were a big Reid donor.”

[boutons_deux]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219383&page=2&p=7011586&viewfull=1#post7011586
A whole page of bouton's unhinged rants/cut and paste orgy.

But this time its ok because rural.

is law enforcement ABUSING their power on Bundy? shooting to kill first?

the redneck gun fellators out there to defend Bundy have no business in that inflammatory situation. Their TAUNTING law enforcement to start shooting.

[TeyshaBlue]

Agreed...the malitias need to GTFO followed immediately by the BLM snipers.

[SnakeBoy]

Here ya go boutons...Enjoy!

Cliven Bundy: right-wing extremist domestic terrorist lawbreaker
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/10/1291105/-Cliven-Bundy-right-wing-extremist-domestic-terrorist-lawbreaker#


All of this is a reminder that the only good Bundy out there is Married... With Children's Al Bundy and that Cliven Bundy is NOT a "hero," but a traitor who's actively harming America who should be in jail!!

[TeyshaBlue]

The fucking BLM initial armed response practically guaranteed a cluster-fuck.
Welp...they delivered.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://toprightnews.com/?p=2422

Website FreeRepublic Exposes BLM “document dump” that suggests attempted cover-up of Sen. Reid/Chinese gov’t takeover of ranch for solar farm.

The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.


Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states.



Another BLM report entitled Regional Mitigation Strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone (BLM Technical Note 444) reveals that Bundy’s land in question is within the “Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone and surrounding area” which is part of a broad U.S. Department of Energy program for “Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States” on land “managed” by BLM.

“In 2012, the BLM and the U.S. Department of Energy published the Final Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement (PEIS) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States,” the report reads. “The Final Solar Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement assessed the impact of utility-scale solar energy development on public lands in the six southwestern states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah.”

“The Approved Resource Management Plan Amendments/Record of Decision (ROD) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States implemented a comprehensive solar energy program for public lands in those states and incorporated land use allocations and programmatic and SEZ-specific design features into land use plans in the six-state study area.”

Back in 2012, the New American reported that Harry Reid’s son, Rory Reid, was the chief representative for a Chinese energy firm planning to build a $5-billion solar plant on public land in Laughlin, Nevada.

And journalist Marcus Stern with Reuters also reported that Sen. Reid was heavily involved in the deal as well.

“[Reid] and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert,” he wrote. “Reid has been one of the project’s most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada.”

“His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.”

Although these reports are in plain view, the mainstream media has so far ignored this link.

The BLM’s official reason for encircling the Bundy family with sniper teams and helicopters was to protect the endangered desert tortoise, which the agency has previously been killing in mass due to “budget constraints.”

“A tortoise isn’t the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher; they want his land,” journalist Dana Loesch wrote. “The tortoise wasn’t of concern when [U.S. Senator] Harry Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore.”

“Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests,” she added. “BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”

“If only Clive Bundy were a big Reid donor.”

Mother fuckin crickets.

[TSA]

Mother fuckin crickets.

Boutons is cross-checking this report at alternet as we speak.

[TSA]

:cry it's for the tortoise :cry

[ElNono]

I don't get it... the story in the OP says the dude owes like $1m in fees, while he doesn't seem to recognize the federal government authority to collect those fees...

How's that not a recipe for disaster?

[TSA]

THE BUNDY DAUGHTER SPEAKS OUT ON GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AGAINST HER FAMILY! (Nevada Rancher)
America's Freedom Fighters ^ | Apr 9, 2014 | Clark Kent

Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2014 12:32:07 PM by xzins

By SHIREE BUNDY COX:
I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight.
Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it is in a nut shell.
My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972.
These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.
These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights.
Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.
My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve.
Instead they began using these money’s against the ranchers.
They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with their own grazing fees.
When they offered to buy my dad out for a penance he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job.
He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.
So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.
In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business.
Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the endangered species card.
You’ve already heard about the desert tortoise.
Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years.
Now they’re desperate.
It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff.
Everything they’re doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.
Now you may be saying,” how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you.
They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again.
Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.
Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him.
Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed.
Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it.
They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them.
All with our tax money.
They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars.
See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”

[baseline bum]

Pretty fucked up if they owned the land already.

[Rogue]

Somebody needs to hang Harry Reid already the little weasel bastard.

[baseline bum]

Somebody needs to hang Harry Reid already the little weasel bastard.

Back with the pedo sig, eh? Don't you chinks get executed for that shit?

[ElNono]

I don't like dirty Harry anymore than anybody else, but you don't stop paying what you owe because you feel you're not getting your money's worth.

Under that rationale, pretty much everybody not named boutons would stop paying their federal taxes.

How long he owned the land is irrelevant. If he owes, then it's only a matter of time until a court issues an order and they come to collect.

What this guy needs aren't cowboys, but a solid attorney to try to minimize the damage.

[TSA]

I don't like dirty Harry anymore than anybody else, but you don't stop paying what you owe because you feel you're not getting your money's worth.

Under that rationale, pretty much everybody not named boutons would stop paying their federal taxes.

How long he owned the land is irrelevant. If he owes, then it's only a matter of time until a court issues an order and they come to collect.

What this guy needs aren't cowboys, but a solid attorney to try to minimize the damage.

So gov pointing sniper rifles at his family was the correct reaction to this?

[TSA]

I don't like dirty Harry anymore than anybody else, but you don't stop paying what you owe because you feel you're not getting your money's worth.

Under that rationale, pretty much everybody not named boutons would stop paying their federal taxes.

How long he owned the land is irrelevant. If he owes, then it's only a matter of time until a court issues an order and they come to collect.

What this guy needs aren't cowboys, but a solid attorney to try to minimize the damage.

I also believe he offered to pay the back fines but the refused to accept. This isn't about fines, this isn't about a tortoise.

[ElNono]

So gov pointing sniper rifles at his family was the correct reaction to this?

The solution to this was for this guy to either pay the fee or show up in court when summoned. He apparently did not do either.

People get full-blown SWAT teams in their front doors these days from the local police. Now, you could agree or disagree that's ok or not, but I don't think I would describe it as new or surprising.

This is obviously a guy that's on a defiant stance with the federal government, so I'm not surprised the police went well prepared.

[ElNono]

I also believe he offered to pay the back fines but the refused to accept. This isn't about fines, this isn't about a tortoise.

I haven't seen much of any details about the actual legal aspects of this case. Perhaps we need to read up a bit more on how a court issued an order for this...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't get it... the story in the OP says the dude owes like $1m in fees, while he doesn't seem to recognize the federal government authority to collect those fees...

How's that not a recipe for disaster?

That's my take and he is in contempt of multiple federal court orders. This is not some guy getting jobbed ID for transcanda. He was using federal lands without a lease and refuses to recognize the authority of the federal government.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I also believe he offered to pay the back fines but the refused to accept. This isn't about fines, this isn't about a tortoise.

He said paying fines was not a problem. He just said he would not deal with the federal government and only Nevada.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

“This is a lot bigger deal than just my cows,” Bundy told FoxNews.com. “It’s a statement for freedom and liberty and the Constitution.”

The fight involves a 600,000-acre area under BLM control called Gold Butte, near the Utah border. The vast and rugged land is the habitat of the protected desert tortoise, and ranchers whose cattloe graze there must pay fees. Bundy, a descendant of Mormons who settled in Bunkerville more than 140 years ago, claims an inherent right to graze the area and casts the conflict as a states' rights issue. He said he doesn't recognize federal authority on land that he insists belongs to Nevada.

BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon said agents on Saturday and Sunday rounded up 134 of an estimated 900 trespassing cattle in a vast 1,200-square-mile area of rangeland northeast of Las Vegas and the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Cannon said the roundup was a last resort and blamed Cliven Bundy for "inflammatory statements," including vows to fight and characterizations of the cow removal as a range war.

"Mr. Bundy has been in trespass on public lands for more than 20 years," Cannon said, adding that he owes the federal government some $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees.

The bureau last week announced the area would be closed through May 12 while contractors conduct the roundup using helicopters, vehicles and temporary pens. Cannon said the agency paid the contractors $966,000.

Bundy's son, Dave Bundy, 37, was arrested Sunday for refusing to disperse as the roundup began, but freed the next day.

Federal officials tried to round up Bundy's livestock two years ago, but he refused to budge.

Since then, he has lost two federal court rulings — and a judge last October prohibited him from physically interfering with any seizure or roundup operation.

Federal officials said BLM enforcement agents were dispatched in response to statements Bundy made that the agency perceived as threats.

“When threats are made that could jeopardize the safety of the American people, the contractors and our personnel; we have the responsibility to provide law enforcement to account for their safety,” National Park Service spokeswoman Christie Vanover told reporters Sunday.

The trouble started when Bundy stopped paying grazing fees in 1993. He said he didn't have to because his Mormon ancestors worked the land since the 1880s, giving him rights to the land.

“We own this land,” he said, not the feds. He said he is willing to pay grazing fees but only to Clark County, not BLM.

“Years ago, I used to have 52 neighboring ranchers,” he said. “I’m the last man standing. How come? Because BLM regulated these people off the land and out of business.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/nevada-officials-blast-feds-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/

I picked Fox as the source for credibility for the right wing locals here. Rancher is fucked and has no leg to stand on.

[TSA]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/nevada-officials-blast-feds-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/

I picked Fox as the source for credibility for the right wing locals here. Rancher is fucked and has no leg to stand on.

Why no comment on Reid?

[DarrinS]

Fence?

[Rogue]

Somebody needs to hang Harry Reid already the little weasel bastard.
I don't even know who the hell Harry Reid is tbh, never heard of that damn name.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why no comment on Reid?

Am I supposed to get up in arms because he is using a chinese manufacturer? I posted a Fox News article. Write them if it bothers you they don't mention him.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/nevada-officials-blast-feds-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/

I picked Fox as the source for credibility for the right wing locals here. Rancher is fucked and has no leg to stand on.

I still think an armed response is ill advised. Potentially killing people over fucking cow grazing is, at best, bat-shit crazy. The rancher is not hitting on all cylinders. If a party needs to act responsibly in this situation, the BLM needs to take the lead and de-escalate. Now.

[baseline bum]

I still think an armed response is ill advised. Potentially killing people over fucking cow grazing is, at best, bat-shit crazy. The rancher is not hitting on all cylinders. If a party needs to act responsibly in this situation, the BLM needs to take the lead and de-escalate. Now.

What should their response be?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I still think an armed response is ill advised. Potentially killing people over fucking cow grazing is, at best, bat-shit crazy. The rancher is not hitting on all cylinders. If a party needs to act responsibly in this situation, the BLM needs to take the lead and de-escalate. Now.

If the guy is saying things that indicate that he is willing to use armed force then what other response is there? They went out there twice and the rancher physically intervened despite a court order. The federal judge should hold him in contempt and criminalize his disregard for rule of law.

[TeyshaBlue]

What should their response be?

I'd lean on the Governor to intervene. As stated upstrean, the rancher at least recognizes the state's authority.

[TSA]

Am I supposed to get up in arms because he is using a chinese manufacturer? I posted a Fox News article. Write them if it bothers you they don't mention him.

I wasn't talking about the Fox News article you posted.

[TSA]

If the guy is saying things that indicate that he is willing to use armed force then what other response is there? They went out there twice and the rancher physically intervened despite a court order. The federal judge should hold him in contempt and criminalize his disregard for rule of law.

There has still been no proof of him making any threats other than gov saying so correct?

[TeyshaBlue]

If the guy is saying things that indicate that he is willing to use armed force then what other response is there? They went out there twice and the rancher physically intervened despite a court order. The federal judge should hold him in contempt and criminalize his disregard for rule of law.

Ultimately, that's how this will play out. A cost/benefit analysis of armed conflict should tell anyone with a room temperature IQ to keep looking for a solution. Again, it's fucking grazing....not Iraq.

[baseline bum]

I'd lean on the Governor to intervene. As stated upstrean, the rancher at least recognizes the state's authority.

Why would the state do anything? They're not getting the cattle.

[baseline bum]

Ultimately, that's how this will play out. A cost/benefit analysis of armed conflict should tell anyone with a room temperature IQ to keep looking for a solution. Again, it's fucking grazing....not Iraq.

If it's not his land and he owes $1 million, what kind of precedent does that set if the BLM lets themselves get bullied by this guy?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There has still been no proof of him making any threats other than gov saying so correct?

Thanks Alex. Is the guy denying he made threats or you just utilizing wishful thinking?

[TeyshaBlue]

Why would the state do anything? They're not getting the cattle.

Obstensibly, to keep the body count at zero.

[TeyshaBlue]

If it's not his land and he owes $1 million, what kind of precedent does that set if the BLM lets themselves get bullied by this guy?

The armed response precedent seems to be lost on you. That's the precedent you should be examining.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ultimately, that's how this will play out. A cost/benefit analysis of armed conflict should tell anyone with a room temperature IQ to keep looking for a solution. Again, it's fucking grazing....not Iraq.

He is the one provoking the response. The BML is following a court order and he is physically intervening and threatening agents. He outright says the feds do not have authority. It is what it is.

[TSA]

Thanks Alex. Is the guy denying he made threats or you just utilizing wishful thinking?

Link to threats requiring snipers please.

[baseline bum]

The armed response precedent seems to be lost on you. That's the precedent you should be examining.

If the sheriff gets an order to evict people from homes they lose the sheriff comes armed. Why would they not come armed?

[TeyshaBlue]

He is the one provoking the response. The BML is following a court order and he is physically intervening and threatening agents. He outright says the feds do not have authority. It is what it is.

I completely agree with your analysis. It does not warrant a headshot.
Get the Governor involved. Defuse the situation first?

[TSA]

He is the one provoking the response. The BML is following a court order and he is physically intervening and threatening agents. He outright says the feds do not have authority. It is what it is.

Do you believe this is all about protecting a fucking tortoise?

[TeyshaBlue]

If the sheriff gets an order to evict people from homes they lose the sheriff comes armed. Why would they not come armed?

Does the sheriff come with a couple hundred deputies and snipers?

That's s apples vs parachute pants.

[TeyshaBlue]

I completely agree with your analysis. It does not warrant a headshot.
Get the Governor involved. Defuse the situation first?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231354&page=2&p=7239321&viewfull=1#post7239321

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I wasn't talking about the Fox News article you posted.

I will just say you need to look at where the ENN project is being built outside Laughlin south of Lake Mead. Now look where Bunkersville is relative to Lake Mead.

I also would point that the issue with Bunker being told to vacate his cattle off federal land started back in 1993.

Maybe he exerted some influence and he certainly is guilty of nepotism overall but in this case I think your dumb ass needs to stop reading infowars and their proxies.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Do you believe this is all about protecting a fucking tortoise?

I think there are multiple federal court orders and that is what it is about. I think this has to do with some country bumpkin thinking he can just ignore federal court as part of a much larger sovereign citizen movement.

[baseline bum]

Does the sheriff come with a couple hundred deputies and snipers?

That's s apples vs parachute pants.

I still don't get your solution. They're supposed to seize property against a hostile family unarmed? Or the BLM should cede the rights to the cattle to the state or county since those are the only governments he'd turn them over to? I wish I could tell SAPD I only recognize Federal Authority.

[TSA]

Infowars alright :rolleyes


It is all starting to make sense now....


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's desert plant


Reuters) - U.S. Senator Harry Reid recognized nine years ago that connections between his official duties and the lobbying activities of his relatives could lead to ethical questions.

In 2003, the Nevada Democrat publicly banned relatives from lobbying him or his staff after newspaper reports showed that Nevada industries and institutions routinely turned to Reid's sons or son-in-law for representation.

Now, questions surrounding family ties are flaring again in Nevada around the Senate majority leader. He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.

Reid has been one of the project's most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada. His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.

Craig Holman, a lobbyist for the non-partisan advocacy group Public Citizen, said the senator is dealing with "an iffy ethical landscape" because of the family connections and should recuse himself from the project. "Is this just happening because ... it benefits the Reid family, or did Harry Reid actually believe in this?" Holman said.

The senator has supported numerous clean energy projects in Nevada. Rory Reid cites energy as one of his specialty areas at the law firm.

The two Reids deny discussing the ENN project.

"I have never discussed the project with my father or his staff," said Rory Reid. Kristen Orthman, a spokeswoman for the senator, said he had not discussed the project with his son.

The Langfang, China-based ENN Energy Group hopes to build what would be the largest solar energy complex in America. The site chosen with Rory Reid's guidance is in tiny Laughlin, Nevada, a gambling town of 7,300 along the Colorado River, 90 miles south of Las Vegas.

County officials have said that they were so thrilled to recruit a company to the area, with the prospect of thousands of new local jobs, that they were eager to negotiate.

ENN is headed by Chinese energy tycoon Wang Yusuo, who made a fortune estimated by Forbes at $2.2 billion distributing natural gas in China. Wang escorted Reid and a delegation of nine other U.S. senators on a tour of the company's clean energy operations in Langfang, and Reid featured Wang as a speaker at his 4th annual National Clean Energy Summit in Las Vegas last year.

NEVADA'S LARGEST LAW FIRM

To advance the Nevada project, ENN retained the state's largest and most prestigious law firm - Lionel Sawyer & Collins, where Rory Reid works. It is headed by Richard Bryan, a former Nevada attorney general, governor and member of the U.S. Senate.

Rory Reid faced a one-year cooling off period from lobbying the Clark County commission after leaving his post in January 2011, and Bryan took the lead on ENN's negotiations with the county.

Since the one-year ban expired, Rory Reid has been ENN's primary representative before the county, according to Steve Sisolak, the board's vice chairman.

Rory Reid acknowledged representing ENN at both the county and state levels since January. He declined to discuss the project otherwise.

Two months after Harry Reid's China trip, Lionel Sawyer registered ENN Mohave Energy LLC as an American subsidiary of the Chinese company. The firm negotiated with the county to buy the land rather than lease it, as the county's staff had recommended.

In December, Clark County commissioners voted unanimously to sell up to 9,000 acres of public land to the subsidiary at pennies on the dollar.

The deal spurred local controversy. Separate appraisals valued the land at $29.6 million and $38.6 million. The commission agreed to sell it to ENN for $4.5 million.

The county did build in certain conditions before the project could begin, including milestones for jobs creation and investment. ENN also must assure the county that it has a power company willing to commit to buying energy from the solar farm. But in the eight months since the commissioners approved the deal, no utility has signed a power purchase agreement.

However, Harry Reid stepped up again.

The Democrat recently used an online discussion related to his annual energy summit for an as-yet unsuccessful effort to pressure Nevada's largest power company, NV Energy, to sign up as ENN's first customer.

In the July 30 discussion, Reid said the project "would start tomorrow if NV Energy would purchase the power." The utility controls "95 percent of all of the electricity that is produced in Nevada and they should go along with this." Reid's online comments were first reported by the Las Vegas Review Journal.

The power company responded by saying it had exceeded its minimum renewable energy requirements both last year and this year, though it would consider buying power from ENN in the future. A spokesman for NV Energy declined to discuss the matter further.

Bryan, the head of the law firm, did not return repeated phone calls and emails.

An official with ENN in Langfang did not respond to emails.

In 2007, after a controversy over the number of lawmaker relatives engaged in lobbying, Congress passed the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, sharply restricting the lobbying activities of close relatives of members of Congress.

The law only applies to registered lobbyists and Rory Reid is not registered as a federal lobbyist in Washington or a state lobbyist in Nevada, according to records in both jurisdictions.

[TeyshaBlue]

I still don't get your solution.inThey're supposed to seize property against a hostile family unarmed? Or the BLM should cede the rights to the cattle to the state or county since those are the only governments he'd turn them over to? I wish I could tell SAPD I only recognize Federal Authority.

BLM doesnt have to cede jack shit. Just let the state step in and intervene before the inevitable headshot.

[TeyshaBlue]

This is not your run of the mill seizure scenario no matter how hard you try to make it seem as mundane as an eviction.

[TeyshaBlue]

If BLM guns this guy down, nobody wins.

[pgardn]

We really have no idea of what the Feds have tried during the 20 year warning. One Fed may have shown up numerous times asking politely for the Bundy family to remove the cattle. Again and again. Maybe the Feds have been threatened by the Bundys before to leave or the Feds would be thrown off...

This is what strikes me as nuts:

"I would pay my grazing fees to the proper government, which I would say is Clark County, Nevada,"


?Feds with lots of guns seems excessive unless the threat of violence from the people who believe they are their own government was thought to be a real concern. These nutty militias joined in, not good.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Infowars alright :rolleyes

So please point me to the part that links Bunkersville land seizure and the project they talk about in the article. Want to know who first started the link between the two? I will help:

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/


Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch

As I said before you need to quit getting your takes from infowars and their proxies. Your critical thinking skills are weak as hell.

Again

1) Where is Laughlin?

2) Where is Bunkersville?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Link to threats requiring snipers please.

It's a tactical response. You threaten feds and you are asking for a shit storm. Nice dissemble though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If BLM guns this guy down, nobody wins.

I get what you are saying especially in light of how standdowns like this has gone in the past.

The issue is that the federal agency is not going to capitulate to the state. They are going to assert the authority which the antagonizer repeatedly denies. The sovereign citizen movement cannot be allowed to deny the authority of the federal government. It's not a precedent they can allow if they do not want others to try the same thing.

[TSA]

We really have no idea of what the Feds have tried during the 20 year warning. One Fed may have shown up numerous times asking politely for the Bundy family to remove the cattle. Again and again. Maybe the Feds have been threatened by the Bundys before to leave or the Feds would be thrown off...

This is what strikes me as nuts:

"I would pay my grazing fees to the proper government, which I would say is Clark County, Nevada,"


?Feds with lots of guns seems excessive unless the threat of violence from the people who believe they are their own government was thought to be a real concern. These nutty militias joined in, not good.



www.blm.gov/ nv/ st/ en/ fo/ lvfo/ blm_programs/ more/ trespass_cattle/ history_of_trepass.print.html
Retrieved from Google cache


U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIORBUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT
Nevada

Northeast Clark County Cattle Trespass


History of Cattle Trespass

In 1993, some of the terms of Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit for the Bunkerville allotment were modified to protect the desert tortoise. Mr. Bundy did not accept the offered grazing permit and subsequently stopped paying grazing fees. The BLM then cancelled Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit but Mr. Bundy continued to graze his cattle in the Bunkerville Allotment. A portion of the Bunkerville Allotment is National Park Service (NPS) lands which BLM managed by agreement with NPS.

In 1997, in accordance with the Desert Tortoise Recovery Plan and the Biological Opinion released by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, active grazing permits in tortoise habitat were purchased by Clark County under the Clark County Multi-Species Habitat Conservation Program. Mr. Bundy rejected a tentative proposal to compensate him for any stockwater rights or range improvements he might have in his former allotment.

In 1998, the United States filed a civil complaint against Mr. Bundy for his continued trespass grazing in the Bunkerville Allotment. The U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada issued an order permanently enjoining Mr. Bundy from grazing cattle on the Bunkerville allotment, ordered him to remove all trespass cattle and set a penalty of $200 per day per animal remaining on the federal range.

In 1999, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the District Court’s permanent injunction. When Mr. Bundy failed to remove his livestock as directed by the District Court, the United States filed a motion to enforce the permanent injunction and the District Court ordered Mr. Bundy to pay $1,377 as willful repeated trespass damages and adjusted fines to be consistent with regulatory rates of $45.90 per day for each day Mr. Bundy’s cattle remained on the allotment based on a herd size of 51 cows BLM had documented as still remaining on the federal range.

In 1999, the Las Vegas Field Office Resource Management Plan designated the Bunkerville allotment as “Closed to Grazing” to protect desert tortoise habitat.

In 2008, BLM issued a decision to cancel Mr. Bundy’s range improvement authorizations (one range improvement permit and ten cooperative agreements). Mr. Bundy submitted a letter objecting to the action which BLM forwarded to the Interior Board of Land Appeals (IBLA) as an appeal. The IBLA issued a decision affirming the BLM’s cancellation decision on December 22, 2008.

In March 2011, BLM counted 903 cattle from a helicopter spread out over approximately 90 miles in northeast Clark County within the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 564 cattle that were in locations that could be accessed by ground teams, 43 percent had no identifying marks, 41 percent had either brands or earmarks registered to Cliven Bundy and 16 percent could not be viewed from all sides to determine ownership information.

In 2011, BLM [has] issued Mr. Bundy a Trespass Notice and Order to Cease and Desist; a Trespass Decision and Order to Remove; and a Notice of Intent to Impound. None of these communications resulted in Mr. Bundy’s voluntary removal of the trespass cattle from the public lands.

In August 2011, cattle were counted by helicopter in the Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 729 cattle counted, only 278 cattle were in locations that could be accessed by the ground teams.

In February 2012, approximately 600 cattle were spotted by helicopter including Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Approximately 50 cattle were counted in Lake Mead National Recreation Area and 550 were counted on BLM managed public lands.

In April 2012, 750 cattle were identified by helicopter on the federal lands. An impoundment operation scheduled to take place in April 2012 was cancelled a day before operations were set to begin.

In May 2012, the United States filed a Complaint seeking declaratory and injunctive relief for Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing within the Gold Butte area outside the Bunkerville Allotment, including within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.
In April 2013, the United States filed a Motion to Enforce the 1998 Permanent Injunction against Cliven Bundy for the Bunkerville Allotment.

In May 2013, 795 cattle were counted by helicopter on the federal lands.

On July 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Lloyd George permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing and ordered Cliven Bundy to remove his trespass cattle from public land outside the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, stating that the United States is authorized to seize and impound any cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days.

On October 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Larry Hicks reiterated that Cliven Bundy is permanently enjoined from grazing the Bunkerville Allotment and has no legal right to graze the federal lands, directed him to remove his trespass cattle from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, authorized the United States to impound his cattle if he fails to remove them within 45 days or continues to trespass at a future date and directed Mr. Bundy not to physically interfere with an impoundment action.

In December 2013, BLM counted 568 cattle by helicopter that remain on the federal lands that are subject to the permanent injunctions.

[TSA]

So please point me to the part that links Bunkersville land seizure and the project they talk about in the article. Want to know who first started the link between the two? I will help:

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/



As I said before you need to quit getting your takes from infowars and their proxies. Your critical thinking skills are weak as hell.

Again

1) Where is Laughlin?

2) Where is Bunkersville?

This was not started on infowars. You would have figured that out on your own had you read your own infowars article. :lmao

[TSA]

It's a tactical response. You threaten feds and you are asking for a shit storm. Nice dissemble though.

Did he threaten the Feds like Koresh abused children?

[TSA]

Fuzzy since you linked infowars I'm going to have to one up you.

http://teapartyradical.squarespace.com/daily/2014/4/11/2014-another-ruby-ridge-waco-tyranny-in-action-bundy-ranch-f.html/

I live in SW Utah. I grew up on a ranch less than 100 miles from the Bundy's ranch. My father knows Cliven Bundy. I know Cliven's son Ryan. This is not a hoax, it is an action of force by the BLM.


The BLM was going to sell the cattle at one of the smallest cattle markets in Utah. No cattle markets in Nevada would take the cattle without a properly signed brand inspection (which the BLM cannot obtain without Cliven Bundy's signature). The BLM paid the owner of the Utah cattle market $300,000 to do the sale ('R' Livestock Connection in Monroe, Utah, owned by one Scott G. Robbins, according to the Utah Business Entity Search). Utah Governor Herbert stepped in and forbid them from bringing the cattle into Utah without the legally required health and brand inspections (which again, require Bundy's signature) and that no feral cattle are allowed to be imported at all (per Utah statute). Because Bundy claims ownership over maybe 350-500 head of branded cattle, the other 500-700 estimated head of cattle would all be considered feral. BLM officially backed off, but we suspect they are still secretly shipping them through Utah without any permission to do so, to "private" buyers in Colorado. The contract cowboys that the BLM hired to do the roundup are from Sampson Livestock in Meadow, Utah (traitors one and all).


From what I understand, Cliven Bundy owns both the Water Rights and Grazing Rights to all of the land where his cattle run. If Bundy failed to use them, the Grazing Rights would revert to the BLM and would be retired, while the Water Rights would revert to the State of Nevada, likely to be sold to the highest bidder (which would probably be a bidding war between mineral companies that are behind this action with the BLM and the City of Las Vegas which is thirsty for water and has had multiple attempts to buy water--through eminent domain from Utah farmers and ranchers--from Utah, which were all blocked by the Utah Legislature and Utah Governor Herbert). Chances are, the BLM has already filed a claim on the water rights so that they can sell to the highest bidder (instead of the state) and are trying to get the cattle off to show that Bundy cannot use the water beneficially (much like what the US Forest Service and BLM both tried to do to Wayne Hage).


Now, for Cliven Bundy, he's not fighting this for his cattle or his own livelihood. He recognizes that he will probably die before this fight is over. He has said multiple times that he is fighting this to wake people up about the tyranny of the Federal Government and also to help wake up the western states about getting the rights to their own land back from the federal government, which has repeatedly shut down ranchers and closed off land. (MO = 1st, get all the ranchers, farmers, Native Americans, and foresters that use the land for positive, sustainable production off of the land; 2nd, grab up all the resources; 3rd, close off the lands to public access including camping, hiking, horseback riding, hunting, fishing, boating, shooting, etc; 4th, sell off the resources to the highest bidder regardless of what that will do to the land, the local environment, or the economy; 5th, collect royalties on the resources in perpetuity; 6th, reduce and eliminate all SLS and PILT payments to the states, impoverishing them beyond belief.)

[TSA]

The BLM tried buying Bundy out and he didn't want to sell. So next they changed the rules to make it harder and harder for him to graze his cattle so that he would forfeit the grazing rights he had already paid for. When he tried to continue to pay the state and county, they refused to take his money. The BLM isn't interested in turtles. They just want the land (including land he DOES own) for their own purposes.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

BLM is following a court order. You just showed where he has been ordered off by federal court first in 1998 which was upheld on appeal.

Environmentalists from the local universities are the ones that got the protection order. Go tin foil that shit.

Bunker can make whatever claim he wants but prior to 1993, he had a leasing agreement to manage the land with the park service. It's per se admission on his part that he did not own the land. How else could he agree to such a thing?

He just didn't want to pay so he did not. A federal court ordered and an appeals court upheld a decision that he was to remove his cows from federal land. Your blogger who supposedly knows them doesn't 'understand' shit. The Bunker family had agreements with the park service and when the business relationship ended because they could not agree to terms he just wanted to keep on anyway.

Sorry but that is not how life works. At no point in the past 100+ years did his family own that land and his family has had legal agreements that indicate he understands that. A management contract is what it is.

He's a squatter and this is very much so like an eviction. He needs to get his shit off of land not his own and quit threatening people. He has other land out there. It's not like they are stealing his home. It's not his land.

[ElNono]

The BLM tried buying Bundy out and he didn't want to sell. So next they changed the rules to make it harder and harder for him to graze his cattle so that he would forfeit the grazing rights he had already paid for. When he tried to continue to pay the state and county, they refused to take his money. The BLM isn't interested in turtles. They just want the land (including land he DOES own) for their own purposes.

That's what courts are for. If he didn't like it, then he should've sued, gone to court and fight the "battle" where it needs to be fought.

You don't need to be a genius to realize this was going to escalate when he has multiple verdicts against him, and on top of that he's not been paying what he owes to who he owes (the federal government).

The actual shocking news here is that it took the government 20 years to act on this.

[ElNono]

I'd lean on the Governor to intervene. As stated upstrean, the rancher at least recognizes the state's authority.

The governor won't touch this. They're not owed the money and it's bad politics for them. Plus there's a few federal court orders in place, the state has dubious, if any, standing to get in the way.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The BLM tried buying Bundy out and he didn't want to sell. So next they changed the rules to make it harder and harder for him to graze his cattle so that he would forfeit the grazing rights he had already paid for. When he tried to continue to pay the state and county, they refused to take his money. The BLM isn't interested in turtles. They just want the land (including land he DOES own) for their own purposes.

No they wanted him to start having to pay to help fund the park service because of an environmental order on the lands that he was using. There is a clear cause and effect. Local scientists get protection for a species and fees go up. He stops paying.

You are speaking to intent. I know you have created this scenario in your head where Reid is pulling strings in Washington so he can get this land for his sons solar project but that is stupid. His son bought the land out by Laughlin.

There are several scientists from local universities who are still pressing the claim for the environmental protection order first enforced in 1993. Bunker was not the target here. Most of the state is federal land and anyone in the region has to pay. He decided he did not want to pay. Fuck him.

[angrydude]

No they wanted him to start having to pay to help fund the park service because of an environmental order on the lands that he was using. There is a clear cause and effect. Local scientists get protection for a species and fees go up. He stops paying.

You are speaking to intent. I know you have created this scenario in your head where Reid is pulling strings in Washington so he can get this land for his sons solar project but that is stupid. His son bought the land out by Laughlin.

There are several scientists from local universities who are still pressing the claim for the environmental protection order first enforced in 1993. Bunker was not the target here. Most of the state is federal land and anyone in the region has to pay. He decided he did not want to pay. Fuck him.

They've already spent wayyyyyyyyy more money trying to get him to comply then they would by him actually paying the fine. It's not about money for the park. It sure as hell isn't about protecting a damn turtle.

[angrydude]

If it's not his land and he owes $1 million, what kind of precedent does that set if the BLM lets themselves get bullied by this guy?

It's their own damn fault. No one would know this guy was bullying them if they didn't send snipers out there in the first place.

[TSA]

No they wanted him to start having to pay to help fund the park service because of an environmental order on the lands that he was using. There is a clear cause and effect. Local scientists get protection for a species and fees go up. He stops paying.

You are speaking to intent. I know you have created this scenario in your head where Reid is pulling strings in Washington so he can get this land for his sons solar project but that is stupid. His son bought the land out by Laughlin.

There are several scientists from local universities who are still pressing the claim for the environmental protection order first enforced in 1993. Bunker was not the target here. Most of the state is federal land and anyone in the region has to pay. He decided he did not want to pay. Fuck him.

You're convinced this is basically over a tortoise.

[pgardn]

www.blm.gov/ (http://www.blm.gov/) nv/ st/ en/ fo/ lvfo/ blm_programs/ more/ trespass_cattle/ history_of_trepass.print.html
Retrieved from Google cache


U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIORBUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT
Nevada

Northeast Clark County Cattle Trespass


History of Cattle Trespass

In 1993, some of the terms of Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit for the Bunkerville allotment were modified to protect the desert tortoise. Mr. Bundy did not accept the offered grazing permit and subsequently stopped paying grazing fees. The BLM then cancelled Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit but Mr. Bundy continued to graze his cattle in the Bunkerville Allotment. A portion of the Bunkerville Allotment is National Park Service (NPS) lands which BLM managed by agreement with NPS.

In 1997, in accordance with the Desert Tortoise Recovery Plan and the Biological Opinion released by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, active grazing permits in tortoise habitat were purchased by Clark County under the Clark County Multi-Species Habitat Conservation Program. Mr. Bundy rejected a tentative proposal to compensate him for any stockwater rights or range improvements he might have in his former allotment.

In 1998, the United States filed a civil complaint against Mr. Bundy for his continued trespass grazing in the Bunkerville Allotment. The U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada issued an order permanently enjoining Mr. Bundy from grazing cattle on the Bunkerville allotment, ordered him to remove all trespass cattle and set a penalty of $200 per day per animal remaining on the federal range.

In 1999, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the District Court’s permanent injunction. When Mr. Bundy failed to remove his livestock as directed by the District Court, the United States filed a motion to enforce the permanent injunction and the District Court ordered Mr. Bundy to pay $1,377 as willful repeated trespass damages and adjusted fines to be consistent with regulatory rates of $45.90 per day for each day Mr. Bundy’s cattle remained on the allotment based on a herd size of 51 cows BLM had documented as still remaining on the federal range.

In 1999, the Las Vegas Field Office Resource Management Plan designated the Bunkerville allotment as “Closed to Grazing” to protect desert tortoise habitat.

In 2008, BLM issued a decision to cancel Mr. Bundy’s range improvement authorizations (one range improvement permit and ten cooperative agreements). Mr. Bundy submitted a letter objecting to the action which BLM forwarded to the Interior Board of Land Appeals (IBLA) as an appeal. The IBLA issued a decision affirming the BLM’s cancellation decision on December 22, 2008.

In March 2011, BLM counted 903 cattle from a helicopter spread out over approximately 90 miles in northeast Clark County within the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 564 cattle that were in locations that could be accessed by ground teams, 43 percent had no identifying marks, 41 percent had either brands or earmarks registered to Cliven Bundy and 16 percent could not be viewed from all sides to determine ownership information.

In 2011, BLM [has] issued Mr. Bundy a Trespass Notice and Order to Cease and Desist; a Trespass Decision and Order to Remove; and a Notice of Intent to Impound. None of these communications resulted in Mr. Bundy’s voluntary removal of the trespass cattle from the public lands.

In August 2011, cattle were counted by helicopter in the Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 729 cattle counted, only 278 cattle were in locations that could be accessed by the ground teams.

In February 2012, approximately 600 cattle were spotted by helicopter including Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Approximately 50 cattle were counted in Lake Mead National Recreation Area and 550 were counted on BLM managed public lands.

In April 2012, 750 cattle were identified by helicopter on the federal lands. An impoundment operation scheduled to take place in April 2012 was cancelled a day before operations were set to begin.

In May 2012, the United States filed a Complaint seeking declaratory and injunctive relief for Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing within the Gold Butte area outside the Bunkerville Allotment, including within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.
In April 2013, the United States filed a Motion to Enforce the 1998 Permanent Injunction against Cliven Bundy for the Bunkerville Allotment.

In May 2013, 795 cattle were counted by helicopter on the federal lands.

On July 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Lloyd George permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing and ordered Cliven Bundy to remove his trespass cattle from public land outside the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, stating that the United States is authorized to seize and impound any cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days.

On October 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Larry Hicks reiterated that Cliven Bundy is permanently enjoined from grazing the Bunkerville Allotment and has no legal right to graze the federal lands, directed him to remove his trespass cattle from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, authorized the United States to impound his cattle if he fails to remove them within 45 days or continues to trespass at a future date and directed Mr. Bundy not to physically interfere with an impoundment action.

In December 2013, BLM counted 568 cattle by helicopter that remain on the federal lands that are subject to the permanent injunctions.

These are all the legal papers filed.
Do you think anyone actually talked to him?
Or they just sent him papers and then showed up with guns?
They had no inkling of any possible physical threat and just showed up with an army?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're convinced this is basically over a tortoise.

I don't think that it is about a tortoise but rather the tort around the tortoise. Again you are ignoring the institution of federal court in and of itself and the influence it exerts on executive agencies. There are people in government driving this but its not your favorite partisan stupidity.

It is the two guys writing the court orders directing the BLM to get the asshole off of federal lands.


On July 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Lloyd George permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing and ordered Cliven Bundy to remove his trespass cattle from public land outside the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, stating that the United States is authorized to seize and impound any cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days.

On October 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Larry Hicks reiterated that Cliven Bundy is permanently enjoined from grazing the Bunkerville Allotment and has no legal right to graze the federal lands, directed him to remove his trespass cattle from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, authorized the United States to impound his cattle if he fails to remove them within 45 days or continues to trespass at a future date and directed Mr. Bundy not to physically interfere with an impoundment action.

You have a timeline and you go decades flaunting the authority of federal court and I can think of a few judges that would get up in arms about that. We have two right here.

If you think that you can arm yourself and try and squat on federal land you are going to have problems. You tell not one but two federal judges that they have no authority in the matter and good luck with that.

He needs to move his cows. the only reason why he wants over there is because of the proximity to the reservoir and he is ranching in the desert like a dumbass. they did not build the hoover dam so he could ranch in the desert. really, fuck that guy.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Las Vegas Sun had the guy who ran the lake mead recreation give his side of the story.


I have been following the news on the proposed roundup of Cliven Bundy’s cattle that are grazing illegally on federal lands in Gold Butte managed on behalf of the public by the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service.

I am familiar with the situation, as I served as superintendent of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area for the National Park Service from 1987 to 2000. In 1993, we reduced the number of cows that could be grazed on the Bunkerville allotment to 150 because of the emergency listing of the desert tortoise as an endangered species.

Because Bundy refused to remove his cattle to meet the 150 level and ignored repeated requests to do so, his permit was canceled in 1994 and the allotment was closed to grazing.

As the news coverage has reported, Bundy continues to graze his cattle and has refused to pay the BLM a grazing fee. The figure he owes the government exceeds $300,000. The estimate of cattle being grazed illegally since 1994 on the old Bunkerville allotment have ranged from 550 to more than 900.

It is unfathomable to me that 20 years after the Bunkerville allotment was canceled in 1994, we are still wrestling with getting his cattle off the range. And there were issues of overgrazing that allotment before 1994. It is my opinion that the BLM and the Park Service have done everything possible administratively to try to resolve the issue amicably. In addition, there are two federal court rulings upholding the agencies’ position, and the most recent ruling demanded Bundy not physically interfere with any seizure or impoundment operation.

Bundy is a bully who has used his threat of a range war and to do “whatever it takes” to stop the government from impounding his cattle to scare public officials.

The implications are that he would resort to a gunbattle. And who wants to see another Waco? I was one of those public officials who were told to back off at one point because of concern for violence.

What Bundy is doing is a criminal act, and he should be accountable for his actions rather than be held up as a hero fighting the federal government.

Most of the grazing permit holders on public land are good stewards and law-abiding citizens, and Bundy is doing them a disservice with his actions. He is a perfect example of someone who publicly states that he abhors the federal government but who relies on it for his welfare.

He is grazing free on the public’s land to the detriment of the environment and the honest taxpayers who support his welfare lifestyle.

What if other people decide that they are also going to do whatever they want on federal land regardless of the law and stake claims to that right? A civil society has to have some rules and laws or we would have total chaos.

Bundy has no guaranteed rights on federal land. He only has rights to what he owns privately, yet when you hear him talk, he considers that he has some intergenerational rights to use more than 158,000 acres as he sees fit. And this is some of the most beautiful and important public land in America. What a deal. Wouldn’t any of us like to have such rights?

I am hopeful that the BLM and the Park Service stand strong and conduct the roundup as needed and not be bullied by someone who seems inclined to continue to break the law and brag about it as “the last cowboy standing.” What a warped self-perception and view of his contribution to humanity.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/06/rancher-land-dispute-bully-not-hero/

Thus the snipers.

[Th'Pusher]

Fuzzy regulating with facts and logic.

:lol @ teapotty TSA trying to maintain a semblance of credibility with some actual facts while interspersing right wing propaganda because he just can't help himself.

Like poison interlaced with the meat. :lol

[boutons_deux]

Sean Hannity inflames brewing ‘range war’ between feds, militia over NV cattle roundup

Sean Hannity promoted a stubborn Nevada rancher as a right-wing martyr Wednesday night on his Fox News program.

A writer for the conservative Tea Party Tribune (http://www.teapartytribune.com/2014/04/08/ruby-ridge-style-standoff-brewing-armed-feds-prepare-for-showdown-with-nevada-cattle-rancher/) portrayed the situation in rather stark terms.

“Now just to make clear how the federal government feels about we the people :lol :lol :lol , remember that this same federal government pays for the killing of human beings in the womb – we call it abortion – and this same federal government is willing to kill an adult human being Cliven Bundy over a desert tortoise which in reality may or may not even be endangered,” wrote contributor Jake Baker.

“This is public land, and it’s not being used, in my mind, and I’m not a rancher, (but) I would think the federal government might be thankful because you’re cutting the lawn for free, and they’re charging huge amounts of money, right, to let your cattle graze there with these fees,” Hannity said.

“When you graze your cattle there, you keep the price of meat down for the American consumer,” Hannity said.

“The United States courts (have) ordered that the government can seize my cattle, but what they have done is they’ve seized Nevada statehood, Nevada law, Clark County public land, access to their land, and they’ve seized access to all the other rights of Clark County people that like to go hunting and fishing, they’ve closed all those things down, and we’re here to protest that action,” the rancher said. “We’re after freedom; we’re after some liberty.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/10/sean-hannity-inflames-brewing-range-war-between-feds-militia-over-nv-cattle-roundup/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

“We’re after freedom; we’re after some liberty.” :lol iow, "I'm after FREE cattle feed and bigger profits."

[Wild Cobra]

It is all starting to make sense now....


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

Absolutely. The guys family has the property for what? 200 years, then the government takes it away, little by little...

[baseline bum]

The governor won't touch this. They're not owed the money and it's bad politics for them. Plus there's a few federal court orders in place, the state has dubious, if any, standing to get in the way.

Yeah, makes no sense for the state to get involved period. Not Nevada's land, not their cattle, not their responsibility, and no way the Feds should cower to this dumbass.

[TSA]

Fuzzy regulating with facts and logic.

:lol @ teapotty TSA trying to maintain a semblance of credibility with some actual facts while interspersing right wing propaganda because he just can't help himself.

Like poison interlaced with the meat. :lol

Pusher with the docking in Fuzzy goods.

[Th'Pusher]

Pusher with the docking in Fuzzy goods.

:cry logically dismantled :cry

[TSA]

Yeah, makes no sense for the state to get involved period. Not Nevada's land, not their cattle, not their responsibility, and no way the Feds should cower to this dumbass.

Sheriff able to broker a deal. BLM pulling out. It's over. Militias will now think they've won something and will feel empowered. Won't be long before bloodshed over another stupid issue.

[TeyshaBlue]

Well, this is terrible news for boutons....no dead ranchers.

[baseline bum]

Sheriff able to broker a deal. BLM pulling out. It's over. Militias will now think they've won something and will feel empowered. Won't be long before bloodshed over another stupid issue.

Link? Didn't see anything.

[ElNono]

Link? Didn't see anything.

However, today the BLM said it would not enforce a court order to remove the cattle and was pulling out of the area.

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," BLM Director Neil Kornze said.

"We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner," he said.

The roundup began April 5, following lengthy court proceedings dating back to 1993, federal officials said. Federal officers began impounding the first lot of cows last weekend, and Bundy responded by inviting supporters onto his land to protest the action.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610

[baseline bum]

Well, this is terrible news for boutons....no dead ranchers.

Yeah, that would have been great, to have another group of anti-government lunatics pull a second Oklahoma City in response. boutons would have loved that for all the thinkprogress linkdumping he could do here.

[TeyshaBlue]

He's gonna do it anyway :lol

[baseline bum]

However, today the BLM said it would not enforce a court order to remove the cattle and was pulling out of the area.

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," BLM Director Neil Kornze said.

"We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner," he said.

The roundup began April 5, following lengthy court proceedings dating back to 1993, federal officials said. Federal officers began impounding the first lot of cows last weekend, and Bundy responded by inviting supporters onto his land to protest the action.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610

The Neville Chamberlain route. Now no one has to obey laws for grazing on federal land.

[ElNono]

The Neville Chamberlain route. Now no one has to obey laws for grazing on federal land.

They'll be back... probably take them another 20 years...

[Th'Pusher]

The rabble thoroughly roused.

[angrydude]

From what I can gather one of the the main beef (pun intended) the guy has is they just want him off the land no matter what and he doesn't want to leave.

Originally the grazing fees were intended to fund improvements to the area (like fences) so the ranchers accepted them and paid them. Then they started using the fees to buy out the ranchers and get them off the land. He is the last hold-out.

Only when he stopped cooperating they went to the endangered tortoise card to get him kicked off the land. Then they got courts to go along with it and etc etc.

From his point of view it's basically a federal land grab which he sees as illegal since the fix was in from day 1. They just used whatever means they could to get their pre-planned objective achieved.

[TeyshaBlue]

The rabble thoroughly roused.

Snipers will do that.

[TSA]

The rabble thoroughly roused.

Do you not think the ties between Reid, his son, and Kornze are the least bit concerning?

[TeyshaBlue]

Not in relation to this.

[Th'Pusher]

From what I can gather one of the the main beef (pun intended) the guy has is they just want him off the land no matter what and he doesn't want to leave.

Originally the grazing fees were intended to fund improvements to the area (like fences) so the ranchers accepted them and paid them. Then they started using the fees to buy out the ranchers and get them off the land. He is the last hold-out.

Only when he stopped cooperating they went to the endangered tortoise card to get him kicked off the land. Then they got courts to go along with it and etc etc.

From his point of view it's basically a federal land grab which he sees as illegal since the fix was in from day 1. They just used whatever means they could to get their pre-planned objective achieved.

What does the fed want to do with the land?

[Th'Pusher]

Do you not think the ties between Reid, his son, and Kornze are the least bit concerning?
No, but I'm not that familiar with the situation. What should I be concerned with?

[ElNono]

From what I can gather one of the the main beef (pun intended) the guy has is they just want him off the land no matter what and he doesn't want to leave.

Originally the grazing fees were intended to fund improvements to the area (like fences) so the ranchers accepted them and paid them. Then they started using the fees to buy out the ranchers and get them off the land. He is the last hold-out.

Only when he stopped cooperating they went to the endangered tortoise card to get him kicked off the land. Then they got courts to go along with it and etc etc.

From his point of view it's basically a federal land grab which he sees as illegal since the fix was in from day 1. They just used whatever means they could to get their pre-planned objective achieved.

I think the main beef is that he and his family doesn't think the federal government has authority over him. Sooner or later they'll find out how wrong they are.

[angrydude]

What does the fed want to do with the land?

No idea. Maybe that solar plant maybe something else. Maybe nothing.

The big picture is its part of a plan to stop all the small time ranching. It's appears to have been going on for a while . Like I said, he's the last holdout in the area. I have no idea what they used the other land for.

Oh, the government also seems have personally exterminated a whole bunch of those tortoises themselves.

[angrydude]

I think the main beef is that he and his family doesn't think the federal government has authority over him. Sooner or later they'll find out how wrong they are.

As a practical matter you're probably right.

My guess is he has a heart attack any day now.

"Land of the free"

[TSA]

No, but I'm not that familiar with the situation. What should I be concerned with?

Never took you for one to support crony capitalism.

[ChumpDumper]

From what I can gather one of the the main beef (pun intended) the guy has is they just want him off the land no matter what and he doesn't want to leave.

Originally the grazing fees were intended to fund improvements to the area (like fences) so the ranchers accepted them and paid them. Then they started using the fees to buy out the ranchers and get them off the land. He is the last hold-out.

Only when he stopped cooperating they went to the endangered tortoise card to get him kicked off the land. Then they got courts to go along with it and etc etc.

From his point of view it's basically a federal land grab which he sees as illegal since the fix was in from day 1. They just used whatever means they could to get their pre-planned objective achieved.How is the federal government grabbing land that already belongs to the federal government?

[ElNono]

As a practical matter you're probably right.

My guess is he has a heart attack any day now.

"Land of the free"

His kids don't sound much different, tbh... I understand that cowboy stories are sexy and nostalgic but this isn't the far west anymore... these days this kind of stuff get settled in a court of law.

If you think otherwise, then don't be surprised when SWAT/Sniper team shows up.

[Rogue]

Statist shills getting blown the FUCK out ITT

[TSA]

Let's see here....we've got the Senate majority leader's former senior advisor as the director of the BLM, all the while the Senate majority leader's son is representing a firm trying to build a 5 billion dollar solar farm in Nevada desert and he needs land. Wonder how they'll work that one out.

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/map-owns_the_west_zps103833cf.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/map-owns_the_west_zps103833cf.jpg.html)

Must be nice to be able to enact new regulations and force citizens out whenever you need land.

[angrydude]

How is the federal government grabbing land that already belongs to the federal government?

By getting his cattle off of it so it can be used for other purposes.

Legally they can't just say, go away. They have to make it legal so the nose breathers can blame the rancher for squatting in a place his family has worked for over 100 years.

[ChumpDumper]

Let's see here....we've got the Senate majority leader's former senior advisor as the director of the BLM, all the while the Senate majority leader's son is representing a firm trying to build a 5 billion dollar solar farm in Nevada desert and he needs land. Wonder how they'll work that one out.

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/map-owns_the_west_zps103833cf.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/map-owns_the_west_zps103833cf.jpg.html)

Must be nice to be able to enact new regulations and force citizens out whenever you need land.Is the Chinese plant to be located on the Bundyville plot?

Yes or no.


By getting his cattle off of it so it can be used for other purposes.So they aren't grabbing any land and not using it for any other purpose.

Thanks.

[angrydude]

Is the Chinese plant to be located on the Bundyville plot?

Yes or no.

So they aren't grabbing any land and not using it for any other purpose.

Thanks.

Hello Mr. literal.

[TSA]

How is the federal government grabbing land that already belongs to the federal government?

Question would be was the land acquired by the government previously done legitimately, or were the other ranchers forced out by not being able to afford the costly new regulations.

[ElNono]

Must be nice to be able to enact new regulations and force citizens out whenever you need land.

Eminent domain is part of the Constitution, and predates it from Common Law. The government always had the power, they just had to make up the excuse.

[angrydude]

Legally they can't just say, go away. They have to make it legal so the mouth breathers can blame the rancher for squatting in a place his family has worked for over 100 years.

[ChumpDumper]

Hello Mr. literal.Hello, Mr. Innuendo.


Question would be was the land acquired by the government previously done legitimately, or were the other ranchers forced out by not being able to afford the costly new regulations.They were absolutely done legitimately. you posted the entire legal history. dude should have been off the land 20 years ago -- long before this Reid bullshit you are trying to push.

I ask again -- is the Chinese plaint going to be located on the Bundyville plot.

Yes or no.

[ChumpDumper]

Legally they can't just say, go away. They have to make it legal so the mouth breathers can blame the rancher for squatting in a place his family has worked for over 100 years.So there is no way you could consider this legitimate because it insults your political sensibilities.

[ElNono]

Legally they can't just say, go away. They have to make it legal so the mouth breathers can blame the rancher for squatting in a place his family has worked for over 100 years.

No, legally they can certainly tell him to go away. They just have to compensate him for whatever they think it's "just"... unfortunately all those missed payments will be part of the discount.

[angrydude]

I believe he stopped paying the fees when they told him he could only graze 150 cattle there. I'm sure in 10 years they would have reduced it to 50.

Soon they'd just outlaw it altogether.

But the courts go along with it so its "legal" and how dare he complain! How dare he not want to fund the instrument of his own destruction!!!!

[ChumpDumper]

I believe he stopped paying the fees when they told him he could only graze 150 cattle there. I'm sure in 10 years they would have reduced it to 50.

Soon they'd just outlaw it altogether.

But the courts go along with it so its "legal" and how dare he complain! How dare he not want to fund the instrument of his own destruction!!!!So due to your political beliefs, there is no way the federal government can ever have a legitimate reason for changing the way its land is used.

[angrydude]

No, legally they can certainly tell him to go away. They just have to compensate him for whatever they think it's "just"... unfortunately all those missed payments will be part of the discount.

But they didn't use emminent domain.

Legally the man is clearly in the wrong (though he argues differently and no court would buy it.) The point is the laws are unjust and are being applied vindictively to this guy. Hence why its a fight over "freedom"

[ChumpDumper]

But they didn't use imminent domain.

Legally the man is clearly in the wrong. The point is the laws are unjust and are being applied vindictively to this guy. Hence why its a fight over "freedom"Sorry, people who don't pay rent get evicted.

[TSA]

They were absolutely done legitimately. you posted the entire legal history. dude should have been off the land 20 years ago -- long before this Reid bullshit you are trying to push.

You believe the intitial fees for a tortoise that may or may not have been endangered are legitimate?


I ask again -- is the Chinese plaint going to be located on the Bundyville plot.

Yes or no.

I'll let you know when Harry Reid replies to my email. Could take a while.

You can't keep ignoring that the positions the three of these men hold is a serious conflict of interest.

Let's play the yes or no game you so love to partake in.

Is the possibility for crony capitalism EXTREMELY high when you have Reid, Reid, and Kornze in the mix?

Yes or no?

[angrydude]

Sorry, people who don't pay rent get evicted.

So if the government decided to fine you if anyone in your house was over 4 feet tall you'd be cool with that?

[ElNono]

I believe he stopped paying the fees when they told him he could only graze 150 cattle there. I'm sure in 10 years they would have reduced it to 50.

Soon they'd just outlaw it altogether.

But the courts go along with it so its "legal" and how dare he complain! How dare he not want to fund the instrument of his own destruction!!!!

According to the letter posted here from his daughter, he stopped paying the fees when he felt the fees weren't being used to help the ranchers.

That's akin to any of us to stop paying our taxes when we feel like the government isn't doing it's job. It's a recipe for disaster.

The courts don't pass laws, legislatures do. Courts issue orders based on those laws. If he had this basic understanding, he would realize that he should've spent that money in political support or a damn good attorney.

Might be too late now though.

[TSA]

Sorry, people who don't pay rent get evicted.

And had he paid them they'd have added new regulations on top of new regulations to eventually get him to this point anyways. Stop being naive, you know they would have found a succulent that needed protecting.

[ChumpDumper]

You believe the intitial fees for a tortoise that may or may not have been endangered are legitimate? Wiat, now you are questioning the tortoise designation?

I'll take a federal judge's word over yours, counselor.



I'll let you know when Harry Reid replies to my email. Could take a while.So you just made up the connection.

OK. Wouldn't be the first time.


You can't keep ignoring that the positions the three of these men hold is a serious conflict of interest.

Let's play the yes or no game you so love to partake in.

Is the possibility for crony capitalism EXTREMELY high when you have Reid, Reid, and Kornze in the mix?

I suspect cronyism in every level of government.

But thanks for admitting it has nothing to do with Bundyville.

[TSA]

According to the letter posted here from his daughter, he stopped paying the fees when he felt the fees weren't being used to help the ranchers.

That's akin to any of us to stop paying our taxes when we feel like the government isn't doing it's job. It's a recipe for disaster.

The courts don't pass laws, legislatures do. Courts issue orders based on those laws. If he had this basic understanding, he would realize that he should've spent that money in political support or a damn good attorney.

Might be too late now though.


I'm not one to post youtubes but the BLM doesn't operate like any other.

tAwALTdrMZ8

[ChumpDumper]

And had he paid them they'd have added new regulations on top of new regulations to eventually get him to this point anyways. Stop being naive, you know they would have found a succulent that needed protecting.It's the landowner's right.

Why can't a landowner determine how the land is used?

You can't squat in your apartment after your lease is up just because you want to live there for free.

[ElNono]

But they didn't use emminent domain.

Legally the man is clearly in the wrong (though he argues differently and no court would buy it.) The point is the laws are unjust and are being applied vindictively to this guy. Hence why its a fight over "freedom"

The laws are whatever was voted. What's "just" or not is debatable.

We all agree or disagree about a certain law all the time, but one thing we certainly do know is that if you don't follow it, then there's going to be repercussions. That's not up for debate and never changed. That kind of "freedom" to disregard law is imaginary, and outside of perhaps the prohibition, always been pretty consistent. I think we all understand that's part of living in a civilized society.

[ElNono]

I'm not one to post youtubes but the BLM doesn't operate like any other.

The BLM sought a court order and got it. This guy needed to go there or another court and overturn it. That's how society works these days.

This isn't even a FISA court where civilians have little to no recourse. He probably thought that because nothing was done in 20 years, nothing would happen. Wrong idea.

[angrydude]

The laws are whatever was voted. What's "just" or not is debatable.

We all agree or disagree about a certain law all the time, but one thing we certainly do know is that if you don't follow it, then there's going to be repercussions. That's not up for debate and never changed. That kind of "freedom" to disregard law is imaginary, and outside of perhaps the prohibition, always been pretty consistent. I think we all understand that's part of living in a civilized society.

What you're saying is you can't support someone who refuses to obey what they consider to be an unjust law.

Obviously consequences will follow. But today's law isn't something set in stone delivered from God on high.

People do what they think they must to protect themselves.

It also depends if you think we live in civilized society instead of one where the criminals run everything.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not one to post youtubes but the BLM doesn't operate like any other.

tAwALTdrMZ8Dumb rant.

The federal government owns the land in question. Bundy doesn't have a right to squat on it for 20 years.

[ChumpDumper]

What you're saying is you can't support someone who refuses to obey what they consider to be an unjust law.

Obviously consequences will follow. But today's law isn't something set in stone delivered from God from on high.

People do what they think they must to protect themselves.

It also depends if you think we live in civilized society instead of one where the criminals run everything.He should move his cattle off the federal land he's been squatting on for 20 years.

[angrydude]

He should move his cattle off the federal land he's been squatting on for 20 years.

Your level of insight and thought into this is amazing.

You probably hated Les Miserables.

[TSA]

So you just made up the connection.

OK. Wouldn't be the first time.

Make the connection for yourself.

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/drylake_zps5b97040f.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/drylake_zps5b97040f.jpg.html)

Bundy's land in question fall within the Dry Lake solar energy zone.

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,”

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/blm_library/tech_notes.Par.29872.File.dat/TN_444.pdf



But thanks for admitting it has nothing to do with Bundyville.


You so sure about that?

[ChumpDumper]

Your level of insight and thought into this is amazing.It's very simple. You guys are making shit up to complicate it.


You probably hated Les Miserables.The book or the play or the movie?

[ChumpDumper]

Make the connection for yourself.

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/drylake_zps5b97040f.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/drylake_zps5b97040f.jpg.html)

Bundy's land in question fall within the Dry Lake solar energy zone.

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,”

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/blm_library/tech_notes.Par.29872.File.dat/TN_444.pdf





You so sure about that?Seeing as it was 20 years ago, yes.

I need a microscope to read your map.

And it's not Bundy's land. Quit making shit up.

[TSA]

Seeing as it was 20 years ago, yes.

I need a microscope to read your map.

You shouldn't sit in front of a computer screen as much as you do as it has obviously ruined your eyesight.

[angrydude]

It's very simple. You guys are making shit up to complicate it.


The book or the play or the movie?

It's amazing. You're like the perfect serf.

As for Les Miserables, I'm referring to the story (so the book Mr. Literal). Jean ValJean stole dammit. He should have gone to prison!

(I'm glad you couldn't figure out the reference on your own. You're really smart.)

[TSA]

And it's not Bundy's land. Quit making shit up.

Does Bundy's land not fall within the Dry Lake solar energy zone?

Yes or no?

[TSA]

Chump I'm off to watch the Masters with my militia brothers. I'll check back in later to see if you were able to read the map.

[ChumpDumper]

Does Bundy's land not fall within the Dry Lake solar energy zone?

Yes or no?The land dispute is not over land Bundy owns.

Quit making shit up.

[ChumpDumper]

It's amazing. You're like the perfect serf.

As for Les Miserables, I'm referring to the story (so the book Mr. Literal). Jean ValJean stole dammit. He should have gone to prison!

(I'm glad you couldn't figure out the reference on your own. You're really smart.)I liked all three in their own way.

Bundy has no relation to any character in the book.

Les Mis is not about a squatter's making threats because he may no longer be able to freeload off the federal government.

This guy stole over a million dollars of your tax money and you want to pass him off as some kind of hero.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump I'm off to watch the Masters with my militia brothers. I'll check back in later to see if you were able to read the map.If you can fix me up with a phone with a 24 inch screen, let me know.

[angrydude]

I liked all three in their own way.

Bundy has no relation to any character in the book.

Les Mis is not about a squatter's making threats because he may no longer be able to freeload off the federal government.

This guy stole over a million dollars of your tax money and you want to pass him off as some kind of hero.

You're right. It's about a criminal who a decadent and corrupt government is legally yet unjustly prosecuting.

What possible relationship does that have with today?

Clearly that viewpoint doesn't resonate with anyone as seen by how unpopular the story is.

[angrydude]

Squatting is squatting. Stealing is stealing.

The justice system is completely fair to all classes.

The government never unevenly applies the law based on personal vendettas or the class of people affected.

If you complain about it there's obviously something wrong with you. If you try to fight it you're an idiot.

Civil disobedience is a waste of time. No laws have ever been changed due to people rising up and voicing their displeasure with them either through "legal" or "illegitimate" means.

[TSA]

Appears the standoff is not over.
http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s679/thefuzzylumpkins/standoff_zps09c38eef.jpg (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/thefuzzylumpkins/media/standoff_zps09c38eef.jpg.html)

BLM still has guns pointed at unarmed (visibly) peacefully protesting citizens.

[TSA]

The land dispute is not over land Bundy owns.

Quit making shit up.

The land he owns most definitely falls within the Dry Lake solar zone.

[TSA]

He should move his cattle off the federal land he's been squatting on for 20 years.

I'm all for it if the government would agree do the same to illegal immigrants. Tax dollars are tax dollars.

[ChumpDumper]

You're right. It's about a criminal who a decadent and corrupt government is legally yet unjustly prosecuting.

What possible relationship does that have with today?

Clearly that viewpoint doesn't resonate with anyone as seen by how unpopular the story is.Bundy hasn't been charged with anything.

He lost several court hearings fair and square. His squatting is completely unjustified. He needs to pay up and get out.


Squatting is squatting. Stealing is stealing.

The justice system is completely fair to all classes.

The government never unevenly applies the law based on personal vendettas or the class of people affected.

If you complain about it there's obviously something wrong with you. If you try to fight it you're an idiot.

Civil disobedience is a waste of time. No laws have ever been changed due to people rising up and voicing their displeasure with them either through "legal" or "illegitimate" means.This guy is no hero. He is a freeloader who is upset he may have to stop freeloading.

Your attempt to beatify him is laughable. Dude needs to find another place to graze cattle. Or do something else. It's not his land.

[ChumpDumper]

The land he owns most definitely falls within the Dry Lake solar zone.The dispute is not over his land. Quit making shit up.


I'm all for it if the government would agree do the same to illegal immigrants. Tax dollars are tax dollars.No, you would still not be all for it.

[angrydude]

Bundy hasn't been charged with anything.

He lost several court hearings fair and square. His squatting is completely unjustified. He needs to pay up and get out.

This guy is no hero. He is a freeloader who is upset he may have to stop freeloading.

Your attempt to beatify him is laughable. Dude needs to find another place to graze cattle. Or do something else. It's not his land.

He's been fined. That's an administrative penalty. Principle is the same.

If this guy wasn't part of the bigger story of other ranchers getting removed I'd be much more inclined to agree with you.

As it stands there is obviously another agenda going on. You just don't want to admit it.

[ChumpDumper]

If this guy wasn't part of the bigger story of other ranchers getting removed I'd be much more inclined to agree with you.

As it stands there is obviously another agenda going on. You just don't want to admit it.You guys never have any evidence of a bigger agenda -- you just throw up some conspiracy innuendo and hope others take it as fact.

[TSA]

As it stands there is obviously another agenda going on. You just don't want to admit it.

It pains him.

[TSA]

You guys never have any evidence of a bigger agenda -- you just throw up some conspiracy innuendo and hope others take it as fact.

Reid, Reid, Kornze. Stop focusing exclusively on Bundy. You can not deny there is a bigger agenda, you are not naive.

[angrydude]

He tried paying the fines to the state. They refused. How is that being "upset he may have to stop freeloading?" Oh wait, it isn't.

[ChumpDumper]

It pains him.If they build a solar farm on the designated tortoise habitat, you may have something, but not really since the government can do with its land as it pleases.

It's not Bundy's land and nothing you have said has changed or will change that.

[angrydude]

You guys never have any evidence of a bigger agenda -- you just throw up some conspiracy innuendo and hope others take it as fact.

How about all the other ranchers being bought out with funds from their own grazing fees?

You just don't accept things unless a government press release tells you to.

[ChumpDumper]

Reid, Reid, Kornze. Stop focusing exclusively on Bundy. You can not deny there is a bigger agenda, you are not naive.Spell it out.

Give actual projects and exact locations. Otherwise, it's just your innuendo.


He tried paying the fines to the state. They refused. How is that being "upset he may have to stop freeloading?" Oh wait, it isn't.It's not the state's land.

It's the federal government's land.

He had been paying the federal government.

Now he is freeloading off the federal government.

[dbestpro]

The land is actually owned by the state, not the government. The government is issuing orders based on their court approved jurisdiction.

[ChumpDumper]

How about all the other ranchers being bought out with funds from their own grazing fees?How about it?


You just don't accept things unless a government press release tells you to.You just don't accept things unless infowars tells you to.

[angrydude]

God knows you won't believe anything Bundy says about it himself. But you're totally willing to swallow everything the government says about it hook line and sinker

Where there's smoke there's fire.

But mr. literal is incapable of reaching conclusions unless he is led there 100% of the way.

[Th'Pusher]

You guys never have any evidence of a bigger agenda -- you just throw up some conspiracy innuendo and hope others take it as fact.
Yep. But somehow you're the one that is naive.

[ChumpDumper]

The land is actually owned by the state, not the government. The government is issuing orders based on their court approved jurisdiction.If that's true, it's managed by the BLM. I dont' see Nevada's disputing the BLM's control of the land.

Regardless, it isn't Bundy's.

[ChumpDumper]

God knows you won't believe anything Bundy says about it himself. But you're totally willing to swallow everything the government says about it hook line and sinker

Where there's smoke there's fire.

But mr. literal is incapable of reaching conclusions unless he is led there 100% of the way.Show me something that isn't innuendo.

That's all I ask.

This project did not exist 20 years ago when Bundy stopped paying his fees. Yet you are trying to go back in time to make it exactly about a solar project conspiracy.

[angrydude]

Show me something that isn't innuendo.

That's all I ask.

This project did not exist 20 years ago when Bundy stopped paying his fees. Yet you are trying to go back in time to make it exactly about a solar project conspiracy.

I don't think its completely about a solar project.

Long term its probably about big ranches taking out small ones. Or the government just wanting the land for whatever use it wants.

Now you'll say where's the proof?

It's like asking for a memo that Bush started the Iraq war for anything but to free the Iraqi people and 9/11

[TSA]

Spell it out.

Give actual projects and exact locations. Otherwise, it's just your innuendo.

Look into Whittemore (jailed for contributions to Reid) and Brightsource. Pull your head out of the sand.

[TSA]

You just don't accept things unless infowars tells you to.

Seems to be your guys fallback line these days. Only person that posted an infowars link was Fuzzy. I've provided plenty of reputable sources you choose to ignore tying these crooks together.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think its completely about a solar project.

Long term its probably about big ranches taking out small ones. Or the government just wanting the land for whatever use it wants.

Now you'll say where's the proof?

It's like asking for a memo that Bush started the Iraq war for anything but to free the Iraqi people and 9/11The government can do what it wants with that land.

It's not Bundy's.


Look into Whittemore (jailed for contributions to Reid) and Brightsource. Pull your head out of the sand.Hey, more innuendo!

You're just like a twoofer.

[ChumpDumper]

Seems to be your guys fallback line these days. Only person that posted an infowars link was Fuzzy. I've provided plenty of reputable sources you choose to ignore tying these crooks together.You have failed to post anything but innuendo for anything having to do with this situation.

Dude didn't pay his fees for 20 years. Dude should get his cattle off the land that isn't his.

It's that simple and you are trying to make a grand conspiracy out of it.

[TSA]

Show me something that isn't innuendo.

That's all I ask.

This project did not exist 20 years ago when Bundy stopped paying his fees. Yet you are trying to go back in time to make it exactly about a solar project conspiracy.

Coincidence that nothing was really done up until now?

[TSA]

Hey, more innuendo!

You're just like a twoofer.

You wanted proof of a bigger agenda, I provided it.

[TSA]

You have failed to post anything but innuendo for anything having to do with this situation.

Dude didn't pay his fees for 20 years. Dude should get his cattle off the land that isn't his.

It's that simple and you are trying to make a grand conspiracy out of it.
I'll tell you again, stop focusing on only Bundy.

[angrydude]

I'm glad that we now have to become expert litigators on the subject to satisfy your burden of proof.

Or you could look yourself. But you already know the answer of course so there's no need.

Its really just government encroachment on their property rights. The grazing law was brought in and accepted under one premise, and is then used by the BLM for another. That's a bait and switch. When stores do that we get upset, (it's their sales technique after all) but when the government does it you say its A-ok.

I'm saying you shouldn't be surprised when people get mad.

This is all coming down to power anyway. The law of conquest is the oldest law in existence.

[angrydude]

You know Chump, circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

If you see a smoldering pile of ashes where a house used to stand, but you didn't see the fire, do you think it's likely that the house burned down?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Reid, Reid, Kornze. Stop focusing exclusively on Bundy. You can not deny there is a bigger agenda, you are not naive.

So Reid started planning this back in 1993?

God you are stupid.

[TSA]

So Reid started planning this back in 1993?

God you are stupid.

Where did I ever imply that? I believe Reid is a crook and have given proof to support this (not once refute), never once said this was planned by him in 1993. Bundy is a new target for him because he was able to get his ex-senior advisor named director of the BLM. Do you know how many contributors of Reid's have been jailed? Care to guess? Do you know of all the shady land dealings he's been linked to in Las Vegas?

Have at it. A whole web page documenting Reid's corruption. But yeah you're right, nothing shady going on at the Bundy ranch.

http://www.futurnamics.com/reid_bundyranch.php

[TSA]

Although very different from the Bundy situation it's not the first time the BLM has been proven to be crooks.

U.S. vs Hage

http://www.tsln.com/agliving/farmingandranching/6881368-111/story.html

The Court found, “In the present case, the Government’s actions over the past two decades shocks the conscience of the Court…”. This finding, coupled with the Court’s finding that agents of the BLM and the USFS engaged in a conspiracy to deprive the Hage family of their vested property rights, opens the door to potential lawsuits against the individual agents personally for their unconstitutional actions.

The ruling chronicles the drama of 21-day trial in Reno, NV last spring between rancher Wayne N. Hage who, unable to afford an attorney, represented himself, and Mark Pollot, the Estate’s attorney, who were defending their case against two federal agencies represented by a cadre of attorneys and staff from the Justice Department.

The Court noted the government’s motive for their pursuit of the present trespass case. ”In 2007…the Government brought the present civil trespass action against Hage and the Estate” because the USFS and BLM were “unsatisfied with the outcome” in the ongoing related 1991 Constitutional Fifth Amendment takings case of Hage v. U.S. before the U.S. Court of Federal Claims (CFC).

However, during the pendency of the trespass case, the agencies pursued remedies outside the jurisdiction of the Court, leading to a referral to the U.S. Attorney for obstruction of justice and findings of contempt of court. Specifically, the BLM invited others, including Mr. Gary Snow of Fallon, to apply for grazing permits on allotments where the Hages previously had permits; the BLM testified they knew Snow’s cattle would use Hage waters; the BLM and USFS both applied to the State of Nevada for stock watering rights over Hage waters, even though neither agency owns cattle, for the “purpose of obtaining rights for third parties other than Hage in order to interfere with Hage’s rights;” and they attempted to intimidate witnesses in the trespass case by issuing trespass notices and demands for payments against persons who had cattle pastured at Pine Creek Ranch, despite having been notified that Hage was responsible for these cattle.

Judge Jones reasoned the trespass notices and demands for payment were meant “to pressure other parties not to do business with the Hages, and even to discourage or punish testimony in the present case.” The Court noted such demands for payment were even issued to “witnesses soon after they testified in this case.”

Tonopah BLM Manager, Tom Seley and Forest Ranger, Steve Williams were both found to be in contempt of court, and were referred to the U.S. Attorney for possible prosecution for criminal obstruction of justice. Noting that Seley and Williams knew of ongoing litigation between the parties in this court and the CFC, they “took actions to interfere with the defense of the present trespass action by intimidating witnesses.” A written order is pending from the separate August 2012 contempt hearing.

The Court stated, “In summary, the government officials, and perhaps also Mr. Snow, entered into a literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also their vested water rights. This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court and provides a sufficient basis for a finding of irreparable harm” to support permanent injunctive relief.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm glad that we now have to become expert litigators on the subject to satisfy your burden of proof.

Or you could look yourself. But you already know the answer of course so there's no need.

Its really just government encroachment on their property rights. The grazing law was brought in and accepted under one premise, and is then used by the BLM for another. That's a bait and switch. When stores do that we get upset, (it's their sales technique after all) but when the government does it you say its A-ok.

I'm saying you shouldn't be surprised when people get mad.

This is all coming down to power anyway. The law of conquest is the oldest law in existence.it is not bundy's property

[ChumpDumper]

You know Chump, circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

If you see a smoldering pile of ashes where a house used to stand, but you didn't see the fire, do you think it's likely that the house burned down?
If I see that a dude hasn't paid fees for 20 years, that dude is freeloading and needs to get his cattle off the land.

[ElNono]

What you're saying is you can't support someone who refuses to obey what they consider to be an unjust law.

Obviously consequences will follow. But today's law isn't something set in stone delivered from God on high.

People do what they think they must to protect themselves.

It also depends if you think we live in civilized society instead of one where the criminals run everything.

The process to enact laws hasn't changed in over a century. You could say that people's interests have, which is pretty normal. There's always winners and losers in rule making, and that's not even circumscribed to government.

And yeah, I'm not really a fan of people breaking the law. I think it's a dangerous slippery slope, no matter who does it, big corps or the little guy.

[TSA]

I've never once been in on any conspiracy theories thrown around here on the board, not once, so to be labeled a twoofer is odd.

Anyone who doesn't think Harry Reid is a crook is blind. It's scary he's been in power this long after everything he has been linked to in Nevada, even scarier he's the third most powerful person in office right now.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But they didn't use emminent domain.

Legally the man is clearly in the wrong (though he argues differently and no court would buy it.) The point is the laws are unjust and are being applied vindictively to this guy. Hence why its a fight over "freedom"

Unjust? In 1993, he was told reduce his herd for overgrazing. He was supposed to only have 150 head on the range and in 1994 he was ordered off the range for having 400. In 1998, federal court first ordered him off of the land and when Bunker appealed, he lost. He decided to keep on anyway. He ignored the order and now has ~900.

This has gone back and forth and Bunker has threatened a 'range war' threatening violence on LMRA and BLM people who have tried to get him to remove the herd.

It's been over 15 years of federal court orders that he disregards. What is just here then? It's fucking stupid that right wing GOP rank and file eat this shit up like Bunker is some sort of white knight out there.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Although very different from the Bundy situation it's not the first time the BLM has been proven to be crooks.

U.S. vs Hage

http://www.tsln.com/agliving/farmingandranching/6881368-111/story.html

The Court found, “In the present case, the Government’s actions over the past two decades shocks the conscience of the Court…”. This finding, coupled with the Court’s finding that agents of the BLM and the USFS engaged in a conspiracy to deprive the Hage family of their vested property rights, opens the door to potential lawsuits against the individual agents personally for their unconstitutional actions.

The ruling chronicles the drama of 21-day trial in Reno, NV last spring between rancher Wayne N. Hage who, unable to afford an attorney, represented himself, and Mark Pollot, the Estate’s attorney, who were defending their case against two federal agencies represented by a cadre of attorneys and staff from the Justice Department.

The Court noted the government’s motive for their pursuit of the present trespass case. ”In 2007…the Government brought the present civil trespass action against Hage and the Estate” because the USFS and BLM were “unsatisfied with the outcome” in the ongoing related 1991 Constitutional Fifth Amendment takings case of Hage v. U.S. before the U.S. Court of Federal Claims (CFC).

However, during the pendency of the trespass case, the agencies pursued remedies outside the jurisdiction of the Court, leading to a referral to the U.S. Attorney for obstruction of justice and findings of contempt of court. Specifically, the BLM invited others, including Mr. Gary Snow of Fallon, to apply for grazing permits on allotments where the Hages previously had permits; the BLM testified they knew Snow’s cattle would use Hage waters; the BLM and USFS both applied to the State of Nevada for stock watering rights over Hage waters, even though neither agency owns cattle, for the “purpose of obtaining rights for third parties other than Hage in order to interfere with Hage’s rights;” and they attempted to intimidate witnesses in the trespass case by issuing trespass notices and demands for payments against persons who had cattle pastured at Pine Creek Ranch, despite having been notified that Hage was responsible for these cattle.

Judge Jones reasoned the trespass notices and demands for payment were meant “to pressure other parties not to do business with the Hages, and even to discourage or punish testimony in the present case.” The Court noted such demands for payment were even issued to “witnesses soon after they testified in this case.”

Tonopah BLM Manager, Tom Seley and Forest Ranger, Steve Williams were both found to be in contempt of court, and were referred to the U.S. Attorney for possible prosecution for criminal obstruction of justice. Noting that Seley and Williams knew of ongoing litigation between the parties in this court and the CFC, they “took actions to interfere with the defense of the present trespass action by intimidating witnesses.” A written order is pending from the separate August 2012 contempt hearing.

The Court stated, “In summary, the government officials, and perhaps also Mr. Snow, entered into a literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also their vested water rights. This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court and provides a sufficient basis for a finding of irreparable harm” to support permanent injunctive relief.

Well you certainly are trying hard for the guilt by association schtick.

The order came from federal court 4 separate times. The BLM is the enforcement arm for the interior ministry. Who do you think made the order to call off the dogs? BLM chief? Secretary of the Interior? POTUS? I think any of those could at the very least meet a circuit court judge head on.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've never once been in on any conspiracy theories thrown around here on the board, not once, so to be labeled a twoofer is odd.

Anyone who doesn't think Harry Reid is a crook is blind. It's scary he's been in power this long after everything he has been linked to in Nevada, even scarier he's the third most powerful person in office right now.

Well, you were shown where the ENN project was going to be built. You were talking about a 'solar range.' You are right they are in the middle of a large stretch of flat desert good for solar. Bravo!

You making the leap without cause when they bought the land around Laughlin already is hilarious. You still double down on it. You guys are literally parroting the breitbart and infowars narrative about 'you don't really think it's about the turtle?' You think this is the first rancher displaced and butthurt because of the endangered species act?

[TSA]

Well you certainly are trying hard for the guilt by association schtick.



Has Harry Reid been linked to numerous scandalous land dealings in Nevada yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's senior advisor now the director of the BLM yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's son representing a firm with a $5 billion dollar project in Nevada yes or no?

[SnakeBoy]

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_4_1687.html



From April 11, 2014 at 2140 UTC
To May 11, 2014 at 1434 UTC

No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described).

ONLY RELIEF AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER DIRECTION OF BLM ARE AUTHORIZED IN THE AIRSPACE

[TSA]

Well, you were shown where the ENN project was going to be built. You were talking about a 'solar range.' You are right they are in the middle of a large stretch of flat desert good for solar. Bravo!

You making the leap without cause when they bought the land around Laughlin already is hilarious. You still double down on it. You guys are literally parroting the breitbart and infowars narrative about 'you don't really think it's about the turtle?' You think this is the first rancher displaced and butthurt because of the endangered species act?

Water rights. Bravo!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Has Harry Reid been linked to numerous scandalous land dealings in Nevada yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's senior advisor now the director of the BLM yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's son representing a firm with a $5 billion dollar project in Nevada yes or no?

What project are they running north of Lake Mead? BLM and LMRA ordered him off in 1994. They are simply reinforcing that same order. Again federal court got involved in 1998. Reid involved then?

Your innuendo in place of fact is pretty contemptible really.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And lets be clear here. The order to seize the cattle came from federal court twice in the last year.

[TSA]

Well you certainly are trying hard for the guilt by association schtick.



Reid helped good friend and bigtime lawyer/lobbyist Harvey Whittemore procure environmental waivers for the Coyote Springs golf and residential development, a short distance from the Bundy Ranch. L.A. Times did a big expose on Reid and Coyote Springs special deals for Whittemore. Reid was happy to let Brightsource propose to cover 8,300 acres of tortoise land of the 42,000-acre Coyote Springs. These included powerline changes and most importantly, a land swap with BLM for Desert Tortoise land. Whittemore claims Harry had nothing to do with the dubious Tortoise landswap. Whittemore will be serving two years for illegal contributions to Reid.

[TSA]

What project are they running north of Lake Mead? BLM and LMRA ordered him off in 1994. They are simply reinforcing that same order. Again federal court got involved in 1998. Reid involved then?

Your innuendo in place of fact is pretty contemptible really.

Three simple yes or no questions and you failed to answer a single one. Try again, yes or no will suffice.

Has Harry Reid been linked to numerous scandalous land dealings in Nevada yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's senior advisor now the director of the BLM yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's son representing a firm with a $5 billion dollar project in Nevada yes or no?

[TSA]

Follow the money Fuzzy.


What project are they running north of Lake Mead? BLM and LMRA ordered him off in 1994. They are simply reinforcing that same order. Again federal court got involved in 1998. Reid involved then?

Your innuendo in place of fact is pretty contemptible really.


Currently, water rights in Nevada run anywhere from $7,000 to $50,000 per acre-foot (depending on the time of year and the amount of rainfall or snowfall in the western region). The water in Nevada is then auctioned, as it has been for at least twenty-five years. That same water can be resold in Las Vegas, Arizona, or Southern California.

Bunkerville in Nevada is ensconced between the Virgin River and the main road, Riverside Road. The Virgin River is a tributary to Lake Mead. The river, along with other sources, discharges into Lake Mead, the largest reservoir in the United States. Both the Virgin River and Lake Mead are part of the Colorado River Basin. In fact, Lake Mead is considered the largest surface water collection for the Colorado River. Whoever controls the water controls the vast wealth that is distributed to a network of states at a crucial time during a water shortage.

[SnakeBoy]

Three simple yes or no questions and you failed to answer a single one.

Slow down...you gotta give Fuzzy time to google his answers.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Three simple yes or no questions and you failed to answer a single one. Try again, yes or no will suffice.

Has Harry Reid been linked to numerous scandalous land dealings in Nevada yes or no?

In a way linked to this dispute? No.


Is Harry Reid's senior advisor now the director of the BLM yes or no?

He was not the one who made the initial order off of federal land so again besides the point.


Is Harry Reid's son representing a firm with a $5 billion dollar project in Nevada yes or no?

The project again is south of Lake Mead.

I answered your questions before you are just too stupid to understand and can only think in terms of yes or no.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Follow the money Fuzzy.

Currently, water rights in Nevada run anywhere from $7,000 to $50,000 per acre-foot (depending on the time of year and the amount of rainfall or snowfall in the western region). The water in Nevada is then auctioned, as it has been for at least twenty-five years. That same water can be resold in Las Vegas, Arizona, or Southern California.

Bunkerville in Nevada is ensconced between the Virgin River and the main road, Riverside Road. The Virgin River is a tributary to Lake Mead. The river, along with other sources, discharges into Lake Mead, the largest reservoir in the United States. Both the Virgin River and Lake Mead are part of the Colorado River Basin. In fact, Lake Mead is considered the largest surface water collection for the Colorado River. Whoever controls the water controls the vast wealth that is distributed to a network of states at a crucial time during a water shortage.

So you have moved on from solar to water. Nice. What is next? Mineral rights?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Reid helped good friend and bigtime lawyer/lobbyist Harvey Whittemore procure environmental waivers for the Coyote Springs golf and residential development, a short distance from the Bundy Ranch. L.A. Times did a big expose on Reid and Coyote Springs special deals for Whittemore. Reid was happy to let Brightsource propose to cover 8,300 acres of tortoise land of the 42,000-acre Coyote Springs. These included powerline changes and most importantly, a land swap with BLM for Desert Tortoise land. Whittemore claims Harry had nothing to do with the dubious Tortoise landswap. Whittemore will be serving two years for illegal contributions to Reid.

That is great and all but 900 head on that range especially given the drought is unacceptable. Not paying your fees for twenty years and ignoring federal circuit judges is unacceptable.

And as has been pointed out to you before, that is what court is for. He had his day in court regarding use of that land and lost. It is what it is.

[TSA]

So you have moved on from solar to water. Nice. What is next? Mineral rights?

I've always looked at the big picture.

[TSA]

In a way linked to this dispute? No.
failure to answer question, duly noted.



He was not the one who made the initial order off of federal land so again besides the point.another failure to answer question, again noted.




The project again is south of Lake Mead.


The question clearly mentions nothing of Lake Mead and specifically states Nevada. Trifecta of failure to answer noted once again.

[TSA]

You can just bold yes or no, fine with me.


Three simple yes or no questions and you failed to answer a single one. Try again, yes or no will suffice.

Has Harry Reid been linked to numerous scandalous land dealings in Nevada yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's senior advisor now the director of the BLM yes or no?

Is Harry Reid's son representing a firm with a $5 billion dollar project in Nevada yes or no?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

failure to answer question, duly noted.

another failure to answer question, again noted.

The question clearly mentions nothing of Lake Mead and specifically states Nevada. Trifecta of failure to answer noted once again.



Your using guilt by association smear tactics. It's a common PR ploy and you are parroting it. Whatever.

I don't think as you do and cannot dumb myself down to binary thinking like that. I also understand the nature of a loaded question. By answering yes or no without qualification it provides the illusion that I agree with the premise that the project south of lake mead has anything to do with this or that Reid's ex-aide is specifically directing this. We get that you want to link it to your political opponents. You want a bridgegate but this doesn't have legs, sorry, Alex.

If something new comes up I will comment but youre being dumb and I don't have the patience for it right now.

The answers were germane.

[TSA]

By answering yes or no without qualification it provides the illusion that I agree with the premise that the project south of lake mead has anything to do with this or that Reid's ex-aide is specifically directing this.

Your head in the sand is duly noted.

[ElNono]

I've never once been in on any conspiracy theories thrown around here on the board, not once, so to be labeled a twoofer is odd.

Anyone who doesn't think Harry Reid is a crook is blind. It's scary he's been in power this long after everything he has been linked to in Nevada, even scarier he's the third most powerful person in office right now.

Reid is a douchebag, and part of the problem. This political class is part of the reason it now takes 20 years for government to act on somebody clearly breaking the law.

[SnakeBoy]

Reid is a douchebag, and part of the problem. This political class is part of the reason it now takes 20 years for government to act on somebody clearly breaking the law.

If these tactics were being used against someone who was refusing to turn over illegal aliens for deportation, I doubt you would be throwing up "the law" as the ultimate arbiter of wrong and right.

[ElNono]

If these tactics were being used against someone who was refusing to turn over illegal aliens for deportation, I doubt you would be throwing up "the law" as the ultimate arbiter of wrong and right.

You would be wrong. I've stated many times that as a legal immigrant, I hate illegal immigration. It's a bullshit shortcut while I had to spend a lot of time and money to do things the right way.

It's also a completely different thing of what I think about the topic politically (vs legally). I'm fully aware we're surrounded by illegal immigrants, and the demographics dictate that politicos cater to some of these people and their families or be at a disadvantage.

I don't like it, but that doesn't mean I'll stop paying 5% of my federal taxes (or whatever percentage USCIS/DHS takes from the budget), because I know I'll get nailed to the tree of woe.

I have my vote, and that's what I'll use. If I have some extra disposable income and feel strongly enough about it, then I might back up some candidate that thinks alike financially. Those are the tools at my disposal right now.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Reid helped good friend and bigtime lawyer/lobbyist Harvey Whittemore procure environmental waivers for the Coyote Springs golf and residential development, a short distance from the Bundy Ranch. L.A. Times did a big expose on Reid and Coyote Springs special deals for Whittemore. Reid was happy to let Brightsource propose to cover 8,300 acres of tortoise land of the 42,000-acre Coyote Springs. These included powerline changes and most importantly, a land swap with BLM for Desert Tortoise land. Whittemore claims Harry had nothing to do with the dubious Tortoise landswap. Whittemore will be serving two years for illegal contributions to Reid.

Nice stealth copy and paste btw.

Why not link your bullshit? Oh because it's http://www.futurnamics.com/about.php that guy.

I think I may pick up his survival gardening book.

Do you have anything more credible? Something this big and survival guy selling 'obama's fault' t-shirts is the only one you can find? That is enough legs for you to decide?

You should be ashamed of your source. You should have better standards for verification than that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If these tactics were being used against someone who was refusing to turn over illegal aliens for deportation, I doubt you would be throwing up "the law" as the ultimate arbiter of wrong and right.

You can tell a lot about a person themselves by what they expect someone else to do.

[ElNono]

I think it's bullshit the DMV charges $50 per car for a card and a license to drive my car every 2 years.... or $120 for a booklet with a photo to travel out of the country...

But nobody in their right mind doesn't pay the fees and expect not to get in trouble when they drive or travel. It's just common sense.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think it's bullshit the DMV charges $50 per car for a card and a license to drive my car every 2 years.... or $120 for a booklet with a photo to travel out of the country...

But nobody in their right mind doesn't pay the fees and expect not to get in trouble when they drive or travel. It's just common sense.

He says he will pay but just not the feds. He wants bigger herds and the feds are saying that the land out there cannot sustain over 150 head. It's a fucking desert.

He stopped paying when they dropped the allotment to 150 cattle.

https://fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fswdev3_006519.pdf

Back in the 1970s they mostly had sheep. Mind you its a desert so 1000 cattle is going to have to range over a huge area and destroy all the scrub. He has been ranging outside of his allotment as well.

Maybe he is a descendant of Ted Bunker himself ordained by Brigham Young to settle the lands as promised by God but honestly fuck him. It's not his land.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Where the fuck is CosmicCowboy in this? He's has stock. I would be interested to hear his take.

[SnakeBoy]

You would be wrong. I've stated many times that as a legal immigrant, I hate illegal immigration. It's a bullshit shortcut while I had to spend a lot of time and money to do things the right way.

It's also a completely different thing of what I think about the topic politically (vs legally). I'm fully aware we're surrounded by illegal immigrants, and the demographics dictate that politicos cater to some of these people and their families or be at a disadvantage.

I don't like it, but that doesn't mean I'll stop paying 5% of my federal taxes (or whatever percentage USCIS/DHS takes from the budget), because I know I'll get nailed to the tree of woe.

I have my vote, and that's what I'll use. If I have some extra disposable income and feel strongly enough about it, then I might back up some candidate that thinks alike financially. Those are the tools at my disposal right now.

Fair enough. I don't agree with your view but I accept that you are be intellectually honest. I don't think that applies to some of the other posters on this thread.

[Th'Pusher]

...but I accept that you are be intellectually honest. I don't think that applies to some of the other posters on this thread.

Agreed. TSA is all over the map in this thread.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Found a copy of the latest court order:


Finally, the Court finds that Bundy’s objections to the United States’ Motion, many of which have been disposed of in prior proceedings, are without merit. The Court has stated unequivocally on numerous occasions that it has jurisdiction to hear this case, and that the Allotment is owned by the United States and managed by the DOI through the BLM and the NPS. Bundy’s repeated suggestions to the contrary are entirely unavailing.

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/cattle_trespass.Par.40211.File.dat/Dkt%2056%20Order%20Granting%20Motion%20to%20Enforc e%2010-9-13.pdf

[boutons_deux]

U.S. Agency Backs Down In Standoff With Cattle Rancher
Cliven Bundy, a Nevada rancher who refuses to pay grazing fees for the use of federally protected land, seems to have won at least a reprieve in his fight against the Bureau of Land Management. The agency has reportedly rounded up hundreds of Bundy's cows and impounded them.
The BLM announced Saturday that it will stop its operation targeting Bundy's cattle, citing safety concerns. But officials maintain that the rancher still owes more than $1 million in unpaid fees that date back more than 20 years.
"The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially," the agency said in a news release issued today.
The agency's partial withdrawal comes as a heated debate continues over Bundy's use of the land – and over the BLM's decision to take the cattle. The rancher and his family say the government went too far in its efforts; last week, he with the agency over the situation.
"People are getting tired of the federal government having unlimited power," Bundy's wife, Carol Bundy later .
One of Bundy's sons was arrested the day after the roundup began in a rural area about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas on April 5; another son was reportedly tased during a clash with police Wednesday.

the BLM wants to proceed with the sale of the cattle already gathered during the roundup but is reportedly willing to share the revenue from the sale with Bundy.

"People are getting tired of the federal government having unlimited power," Bundy's wife, Carol Bundy later .

( :lol Bitch, a lot of us are getting tired of you rednecks having unlimited stupidity)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/04/12/302351783/u-s-agency-backs-down-in-standoff-with-cattle-rancher?sc=17&f=1001&utm_source=iosnewsapp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=app

So Bundy has had his cows confiscated. Looks like the govt will sell them to cover some of the unpaid $1M. 900 x $1000, getting pretty close. They ought to stick also him with the cost of enforcement, like rape victims have to pay for their rape kits.

[Wild Cobra]

So Bundy has had his cows confiscated. Looks like the govt will sell them to cover some of the unpaid $1M. 900 x $1000, getting pretty close. They ought to stick also him with the cost of enforcement, like rape victims have to pay for their rape kits.
There are numerous types of reports that show the slow encroachment of taking away his grazing lands. When the BLM first took his family's land, the agreement was there would be no grazing fees. I'll bet the grazing rights were continuous until a sale, and the government is trying other BS to let Harry gReid's son put a solar plant there.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There are numerous types of reports that show the slow encroachment of taking away his grazing lands. When the BLM first took his family's land, the agreement was there would be no grazing fees. I'll bet the grazing rights were continuous until a sale, and the government is trying other BS to let Harry gReid's son put a solar plant there.

The BLM never 'took' his lands. It has always been federal land since we forced Mexico to sell it to us for $15m in 1847. Bunker didn't come down from Salt Lake until decades later.

Let me guess you think 3 federal circuit court judges and an appeals panel are wrong. Bunker actually does have land farther north of the allotment.

[ChumpDumper]

Why does the pro-Bundy cabal insist on making shit up?

[Wild Cobra]

Why does the pro-Bundy cabal insist on making shit up?
I'm not "pro-Bundy." I simply see that our government is increasingly getting out of hand. There are reports that may or may not be true.

Are you suggesting that the government doesn't make shit up? Or that you know for facts the merits of this case one way or another? I'm not.

I do find the alleged ties to Reid Jr. and the solar farm for that land alarming. Don't you?

[Ignignokt]

Jim Crow was the law faggots! Always obey the laws!

[The Reckoning]

why doesn't obama bail him out?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not "pro-Bundy." I simply see that our government is increasingly getting out of hand. There are reports that may or may not be true.

Are you suggesting that the government doesn't make shit up? Or that you know for facts the merits of this case one way or another? I'm not.I am flat out saying that people are making shit up here.


I do find the alleged ties to Reid Jr. and the solar farm for that land alarming. Don't you?No. It's government. How is Rick Perry a multimillionaire after only having government jobs his entire life?

LBJ?

Nixon?

Same shit.

Don't feign outrage now just because your political ideology demands it.

I do find the fact that this dude has been freeloading off the government for 20 years alarming. Don't you?

[SnakeBoy]

I do find the fact that this dude has been freeloading off the government for 20 years alarming. Don't you?

He wasn't freeloading, only his cows were. He should have gotten them EBT cards tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jim Crow was the law faggots! Always obey the laws!

You complaining about the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo that gave the US ownership of the land or just property rights in general?

I am going to go out on a limb that you are so ignorant that you do not know what I am saying.

[TSA]

Password mysteriously changed this morning. PM following asking to not discuss this further. Anyone else?

[Rogue]

^explain

[Rogue]

:popcorn

[Th'Pusher]

Probably related to that ridiculous wingnut website you were cruising for content tbh.

[SnakeBoy]

Looks like Bundy wins.


Cliven Bundy Ranch Dispute: Feds Release Cattle, Say ‘Escalating Tensions’ Caused it

Federal land managers say “escalating tensions” led them to release all 400 or so head of cattle rounded up on public land in southern Nevada from a rancher who has refused to recognize their authority.


Bureau of Land Management Chief Neil Kornze announced an abrupt halt to the weeklong roundup just hours before the release.

“Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concerns about the safety of employees and members of the public,” Kornze said in a statement.

Hundreds of states’ rights protesters, including militia members, showed up at corrals outside Mesquite to demand the animals’ return to rancher Cliven Bundy. Some protesters were armed with handguns and rifles at the corrals and at an earlier nearby rally.

Las Vegas Police Lt. Dan Zehnder said the showdown was resolved with no injuries and no violence. Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie was able to negotiate a resolution after talking withBundy, he said.

The fight between Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management widened into a debate about states’ rights and federal land-use policy. The dispute that ultimately triggered the roundup dates to 1993, when the bureau cited concern for the federally protected tortoise in the region. The bureau revoked Bundy’s grazing rights after he stopped paying grazing fees and disregarded federal court orders to remove his animals.

Kornze’s announcement came after Bundy repeatedly promised to “do whatever it takes” to protect his property and after a string of raucous confrontations between his family members and supporters and federal agents during the weeklong operation.

Bundy did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Republican Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval issued a statement praising the agency for its willingness to listen to the state’s concerns. He earlier criticized the agency for creating “an atmosphere of intimidation” and trying to confine protesters to a fenced-in “First Amendment area” well away from the sprawling roundup area.

“The safety of all individuals involved in this matter has been my highest priority,” Sandoval said. “Given the circumstances, today’s outcome is the best we could have hoped for.”

Nevada’s congressional delegation urged the protesters to be calm and to leave the area.

“The dispute is over, the BLM is leaving, but emotions and tensions are still near the boiling point, and we desperately need a peaceful conclusion to this conflict,” U.S. Sen. Dean Heller, R-Nev., said in a statement. “I urge all the people involved to please return to your homes and allow the BLM officers to collect their equipment and depart without interference.”

The 400 cows gathered during the roundup were short of the BLM’s goal of 900 cows that it says have been trespassing on U.S. land without required grazing permits for over 20 years.

Bundy, 67, doesn’t recognize federal authority on land he insists belongs to Nevada. His Mormon family has operated a ranch since the 1870s near the small town of Bunkerville and the Utah and Arizona lines.

“Good morning America, good morning world, isn’t it a beautiful day in Bunkerville?” Bundy told a cheering crowd after his cattle were released, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

The crowd protesting Saturday recited the pledge of allegiance, and many offered prayers. Others waved placards reading, “This land is your land,” and “We teach our children not to bully. How do we teach our government not to be big bullies?” according to the newspaper.

It’s the latest skirmish since the 1980s when the Sagebrush Rebellion challenged federal ownership of Nevada rangeland ranchers said was rightfully theirs.

A federal judge in Las Vegas first ordered Bundy to remove his trespassing cattle in 1998. The bureau was implementing two federal court orders last year to remove Bundy’s cattle after making repeated efforts to resolve the matter outside court, Kornze said, adding the rancher has not paid grazing fees in 20 years.

“This is a matter of fairness and equity, and we remain disappointed that Cliven Bundy continues to not comply with the same laws that 16,000 public-lands ranchers do every year,” Kornze said. “After 20 years and multiple court orders to remove the trespass cattle, Mr. Bundy owes the American taxpayers in excess of $1 million. The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially.”

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/618690-cliven-bundy-ranch-dispute-feds-release-cattle-say-escalating-tensions-caused-it/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Password mysteriously changed this morning. PM following asking to not discuss this further. Anyone else?

Don't tell us what oyu think the PM means. Post it so we can see for ourselves.

Nullius in verba

[Winehole23]

Password mysteriously changed this morning. PM following asking to not discuss this further. Anyone else?who sent you the PM?

[CosmicCowboy]

Where the fuck is CosmicCowboy in this? He's has stock. I would be interested to hear his take.

I think the BLM is a fucked up organization and I think the rancher was wrong. If he is gonna graze his cattle on BLM land he should have continued to pay the fee. He doesn't have a "right" go graze his cattle for free.

At the same time I do think that over zealous environmental lobby is driving BLM policy. They don't give a fuck about the desert tortoise. They just don't want ranchers having access to BLM land. If they don't want cattle in certain areas of BLM land to protect the tortoise then they need to put up fences. Cows don't know when they are walking on "protected" land.

[CosmicCowboy]

Where the fuck is CosmicCowboy in this? He's has stock. I would be interested to hear his take.

I think the BLM is a fucked up organization and I think the rancher was wrong. If he is gonna graze his cattle on BLM land he should have continued to pay the fee. He doesn't have a "right" to graze his cattle for free.

At the same time I do think that over zealous environmental lobby is driving BLM policy. They don't give a fuck about the desert tortoise. They just don't want ranchers having access to BLM land. If they don't want cattle in certain areas of BLM land to protect the tortoise then they need to put up fences. Cows don't know when they are walking on "protected" land.

[boutons_deux]

"over zealous environmental lobby is driving BLM policy"

link for your think?

we know you don't give a fuck about the insanely over zealous BigCarbon/BigMeat lobbies.

[CosmicCowboy]

GFY

[boutons_deux]

Wild horses targeted for roundup in Utah rangeland clash

A Utah county, angry over the destruction of federal rangeland that ranchers use to graze cattle, has started a bid to round up federally protected wild horses it blames for the problem in the latest dustup over land management in the U.S. West.

Close to 2,000 wild horses are roaming southern Utah's Iron County, well over the 300 the U.S. Bureau of Land Management has dubbed as appropriate for the rural area's nine designated herd management zones, County Commissioner David Miller said.

County officials complain the burgeoning herd is destroying vegetation crucial to ranchers who pay to graze their cattle on the land, and who have already been asked to reduce their herds to cope with an anticipated drought.

Wild horse preservation groups say any attempt to remove the horses would be a federal crime.

On Thursday county workers, accompanied by a Bureau of Land Management staffer, set up the first in a series of metal corrals designed to trap and hold the horses on private land abutting the federal range until they can be moved to BLM facilities for adoption.

"There's been no management of the animals and they keep reproducing," Miller said in an interview. "The rangeland just can't sustain it."

The conflict reflects broader tension between ranchers, who have traditionally grazed cattle on public lands and held sway over land-use decisions, and environmentalists and land managers facing competing demands on the same land.

http://news.yahoo.com/wild-horses-targeted-roundup-utah-rangeland-clash-002247077--finance.html

[CosmicCowboy]

LMAO @ adopting wild horses. The horse market sucks. People can't even give away broke horses.

[boutons_deux]

LMAO @ adopting wild horses. The horse market sucks. People can't even give away broke horses.

could ship them to eastern Europe, eg Poland, for human consumption

[CosmicCowboy]

could ship them to eastern Europe, eg Poland, for human consumption

They would have to be shipped alive to Mexico first. All the equine kill plants in the US were forced to close by the government.

[ChumpDumper]

They would have to be shipped alive to Mexico first. All the equine kill plants in the US were forced to close by the government.Local and state governments to be precise -- before a federal ban.

[ChumpDumper]

And last I read, it's legal to do again but plants are running into NIMBY opposition.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

who sent you the PM?

I was told not to discuss any of it and can no longer access my account.

[ChumpDumper]

Sounds not serious.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Sounds not serious.

Fairly serious is all I will say about the matter. Received a similar PM on another site as well.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think the BLM is a fucked up organization and I think the rancher was wrong. If he is gonna graze his cattle on BLM land he should have continued to pay the fee. He doesn't have a "right" go graze his cattle for free.

At the same time I do think that over zealous environmental lobby is driving BLM policy. They don't give a fuck about the desert tortoise. They just don't want ranchers having access to BLM land. If they don't want cattle in certain areas of BLM land to protect the tortoise then they need to put up fences. Cows don't know when they are walking on "protected" land.

Thanks. You have practical experience in the topic and your perspective is good stuff.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I was told not to discuss any of it and can no longer access my account.

Seeing that you already broke the command several times and are still alive I will have to say that you are about as banned as SA210.

My recomendation is to continue talking about it with us and complaining about the people you aren't supposed to discuss. The worst that can happen is they kill you. It's a win-win.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Seeing that you already broke the command several times and are still alive I will have to say that you are about as banned as SA210.

My recomendation is to continue talking about it with us and complaining about the people you aren't supposed to discuss. The worst that can happen is they kill you. It's a win-win.

You dislike me so much you wish me dead? You are a fucking scum.

[Rogue]

Fuck the Feds dude, talk about that shit all day don't cower to those bitches. If they send an agent to your house kill him. We are now in a war, choose your side soldier.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You dislike me so much you wish me dead? You are a fucking scum.

Shut up, monkey.