Laimbeer: Lebron would be the best in my era

[StrengthAndHonor]

True or False?

Keep in mind the 80's brand of basketball will be applied here.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

no

[spurraider21]

LeBron would be even more of a monster on defense in the 80's. although he hasn't for a while, he used to complain about :cry hard fouls :cry even in the era of the flagrant foul. it would take some adjustment, but he could thrive

[Arnold Toht]

He would be shining shoes with the rest of the league.

[resistanze]

:lol @ the thought of LeBron playing in the zone-less 80s. The only proven formula to contain Lebron would be gone. Hard fouls wouldn't stop LeBron, he's still bigger than most people from that era too.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol @ the thought of LeBron playing in the zone-less 80s. The only proven formula to contain Lebron would be gone. Hard fouls wouldn't stop LeBron, he's still bigger than most people from that era too.

This, tbh.... the only reasons people will say no is due to nostalgiafaggotry and blind hate for LeBron :lol

[The Gemini Method]

The steroids weren't good enough in the 80's so, no.

[Koolaid_Man]

This, tbh.... the only reasons people will say no is due to nostalgiafaggotry and blind hate for LeBron :lol

Bitch please...Karl Malone would have made Bron look like a fucking bean pole...in fact Rodman would have shut Bron down...been all up in his soft little ass....If Malone couldn't fuck wit h Rodman what makes your dumb ass think Lebron could...man I tell ya...you cats get dumber by the min :lol

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lol @ the thought of LeBron playing in the zone-less 80s. The only proven formula to contain Lebron would be gone. Hard fouls wouldn't stop LeBron, he's still bigger than most people from that era too.

:lol hard fouls would stop lebron

could you imagine him going against the bad boy pistons :lmao

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Bitch please...Karl Malone would have made Bron look like a fucking bean pole...in fact Rodman would have shut Bron down...been all up in his soft little ass....If Malone couldn't fuck wit h Rodman what makes your dumb ass think Lebron could...man I tell ya...you cats get dumber by the min :lol

kool_aid with the surprise goods. rodman would have shit on him.

i'm telling you guys.. his dominance is like magic's. he's a great player.. but he's nothing the league hasn't seen

[Clipper Nation]

:lol at Capri making that choke artist Karl Malone out to be some badass.... Brian freaking Grant had no problem owning Malone, so I fail to see where LeBron would have any trouble....

And at least Catfag has stopped comparing the Kang to T-Mac, so that's progress :lol

[Katherine Robinson]

Lebron would need to focus on his mid-range more to truly dominate, the bigs of the 80s weren't the shrimps Wilt Chamberlain destroyed on a daily basis.

[JamStone]

I'd say very likely. LeBron is just a freak. As quick and as athletic as any of the quick perimeter players back then and the size and build and strength of any power forward back then as well. The only thing that might have changed was back then LeBron may have not been allowed to play out on the perimeter as much growing up. He may have been forced into a role of playing PF/C when he was younger. Then he would have gone to college and they'd have him still play down low on the block. And even with above average perimeter skills, he may have gone through an NBA career more like Charles Barkley or Larry Johnson where he'd be good enough to play out on the perimeter, but was pigeon-holed into the PF position. Would that have made things different for him in terms of dominating the league? I think it's possible. I don't know if he ends up dominating the interior and the post the same way he dominates out on the perimeter and open court. I think guys like Magic and Jordan and Grant Hill and Pippen paved the road for NBA coaches (and ultimately college and high school and AAU coaches as well) to be more willing to allow "big" players be playmakers, facilitators, lead guards even if their size used to dictate what position they'd ultimately play in the league. It may have been more taboo for LeBron to be basically a combination of SF/SG/PG where he has the ball in his hands all the time. In that sense, I'm not sure if the standard notions of NBA coaching back then would have allowed him to become the player he is today.

But if whoever ended up coaching him simply allowed him to just play and play any position, have the ball in his hands to facilitate the offense and grow and develop they way he has now, I don't think he would have had any problem adjusting the physicality of 80s NBA basketball. And I think his combination of size and athleticism and strength would have been even more pronounced back then. LeBron would pretty much dominate any era you put him in as long as he was allowed the same type of freedom and development of his game that he was given early on in his NBA career.

[Killakobe81]

I'd say very likely. LeBron is just a freak. As quick and as athletic as any of the quick perimeter players back then and the size and build and strength of any power forward back then as well. The only thing that might have changed was back then LeBron may have not been allowed to play out on the perimeter as much growing up. He may have been forced into a role of playing PF/C when he was younger. Then he would have gone to college and they'd have him still play down low on the block. And even with above average perimeter skills, he may have gone through an NBA career more like Charles Barkley or Larry Johnson where he'd be good enough to play out on the perimeter, but was pigeon-holed into the PF position. Would that have made things different for him in terms of dominating the league? I think it's possible. I don't know if he ends up dominating the interior and the post the same way he dominates out on the perimeter and open court. I think guys like Magic and Jordan and Grant Hill and Pippen paved the road for NBA coaches (and ultimately college and high school and AAU coaches as well) to be more willing to allow "big" players be playmakers, facilitators, lead guards even if their size used to dictate what position they'd ultimately play in the league. It may have been more taboo for LeBron to be basically a combination of SF/SG/PG where he has the ball in his hands all the time. In that sense, I'm not sure if the standard notions of NBA coaching back then would have allowed him to become the player he is today.

But if whoever ended up coaching him simply allowed him to just play and play any position, have the ball in his hands to facilitate the offense and grow and develop they way he has now, I don't think he would have had any problem adjusting the physicality of 80s NBA basketball. And I think his combination of size and athleticism and strength would have been even more pronounced back then. LeBron would pretty much dominate any era you put him in as long as he was allowed the same type of freedom and development of his game that he was given early on in his NBA career.

this. But like young MJ he would have to learn how to handle that kind of physical play. Lebron is bigger and stronger than MJ so he may have been able to handle it better, but it wasnt just physical abuse dem Bad Boys Pistons dished but it was mental as well. I say yes he could be the best in any era his talent is THAT great. But he only has two rings in this one a good not great era so let's give it some time to really set his place. But I have always maintained he has GOAT potential.

[Clipper Nation]

this. But like young MJ he would have to learn how to handle that kind of physical play.

MJ's method of "handling it" was to cry to Stern for rule changes that neutered the Bad Boys :lol

[Malik Hairston]

:lmao

It depends if you extrapolate the teams of the 80s to today's league..if you assume they benefit from the knowledge and progression of schemes, then we can expand and discuss arguments like Jam's, tbh..

If you simply insert current Lebron in the 80s, he would be a much better version of Aids Johnson..he wouldn't put up Wilt numbers, but probably Oscar Robertson-ish..

The best defensive team in the 80s would be an average defensive team in today's league..this year's Raptors were statistically superior to the Bad Boys Pistons:lol..

[spurraider21]

MJ's method of "handling it" was to cry to Stern for rule changes that neutered the Bad Boys :lol
Lebron still cries about hard fouls in this pussified era tbh. Like I said in my first post here, he'd need to adjust offensively but he would annihilate fools on defense with the physicality allowed

[Malik Hairston]

There wouldn't be an adjustment offensively..hard fouls are by far the most overrated aspect of basketball:lol..

Lebron, Durant and Kobe would completely dominate the 80s lack of defensive schemes and athleticism, tbh..

[Clipper Nation]

Lebron still cries about hard fouls in this pussified era tbh.
Nobody's changing any rules for him - in fact, he gets less calls by the year while Durbeta (his manufactured "rival") lives at the line :lol

[spurraider21]

Nobody's changing any rules for him - in fact, he gets less calls by the year while Durbeta (his manufactured "rival") lives at the line :lol
I never said they changed rules for him and never mentioned Durant, so cute strawman rebuttal

[Axegrinder]

Oakley would snap him like a pea pod

[hater]

Sorry Lebron just doesn't have the mental fortitude to overcome the physicality of the 80s ball. He'd be relegated to riding someone's coattails imo (probably new york)

Saying just cause he's big he'd be a success is as stupid as saying Aron Baynes would be a success in the 80s too :rolleyes

there's strong and there's mentally strong. Lebron just doesn't have that, that's why he joined Ryley, Dwayne and needed the best shooter in history to even repeat

[Malik Hairston]

Again, do people even realize that the Toronto Raptors of 2014 are an equal defense to the Bad Boys Pistons, tbh?..

[daslicer]

Again, do people even realize that the Toronto Raptors of 2014 are an equal defense to the Bad Boys Pistons, tbh?..

Do you think any of the Raptors are better individual defenders than Dennis Rodman was on the Pistons team? Then again you don't know shit about that era or the 90's since you were born right after 1990. You can't comment on any of this shit.

[Malik Hairston]

Sure, I can, it's called the Internet:lmao..

The magical system that allows me to watch any game from the 80s/90s, along with having all the data from those eras..

Those Pistons allowed around 105 PPG/100 poss(on average, for a few years), around the same as the Raptors..they would be a slightly above average defensive team, sorry homie..

[Malik Hairston]

Do you think any of the Raptors are better individual defenders than Dennis Rodman was on the Pistons team? Then again you don't know shit about that era or the 90's since you were born right after 1990. You can't comment on any of this shit.

I don't know much about the 80s or 90s, but didn't Bill Laimbeer play for the best defensive team in the 80s?..didn't he play with Rodman?..wasn't he one of the dirtiest players in the league, in the "physical 80s"?..would he know shit about the 80s or 90s?..

[LkrFan]

I think LeBron would be good in the '80s due to his size, strength, and skillset - but not great. I just doubt he'd be able to have developed to the level we see him at right now due to the physical play. Teams that couldn't stop him would simply beat him up and dare him to come in the paint like he does now. The difference is when they knock him on his ass, would he have the mental fortitude to keep doing it over and over like he does now? I doubt it. I agree with those who says he'll adjust to the physical play. It's the mental part that would prevent him from dominating the '80s. Say what you want about Kobe, but that's one tough SOB. Mentally and physically. Remember when his Achilles snapped? He limped to the FT line and to the locker room - without the aid of a teammate or a wheelchair. LeBron couldn't do that.

[Clipper Nation]

Say what you want about Kobe, but that's one tough SOB.
:lol No, you can't be a repeat quitter and be "tough," Alfredo....

[Axegrinder]

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608016366765279236&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

[daslicer]

I don't know much about the 80s or 90s, but didn't Bill Laimbeer play for the best defensive team in the 80s?..didn't he play with Rodman?..wasn't he one of the dirtiest players in the league, in the "physical 80s"?..would he know shit about the 80s or 90s?..

You have to factor in that Laimbeer hated Jordan with a passion so you can only take his comments with a grain of salt that was more of a parting shot at MJ than a compliment towards Lebron. By your logic I guess I should take Rodman's comments seriously since he said recently that Lebron would be a second rate player during the 80's and 90s had he played during that time period. He also said the Heat would easily lose to any of the second tier teams during the 90's. I should also take John Salley's comments seriously since he said that Kobe is better than both MJ and Lebron since he was from that era. Your nothing but a hardcore Lebron fanboy. Do you honestly believe anybody on the current Raptors teams is a better one on one defender than Rodman and Dumars. Name me one guy who is better than those 2 defense wise.

[Malik Hairston]

Individual defense is irrelevant in a discussion about team defenses:lol..

I provided numbers that demonstrate that the best defensive team in the 80s would be just a slightly above average defense in today's NBA..

Naturally, today's defenses have progressed due to the collection of more data, elaborate schemes and superior athleticism from the players..this can't really be argued..

The only counter-arguments from the posters in this thread are ":( Lebron couldn't handle the HARD FOULS of the 80s!!!"..:lol unquantifiable sports cliches..

[sook]

The best? No.

Jab at Jordan IMO.

[Clipper Nation]

Amazing how real basketball discussion has returned now that Harlem is back, even though the circle-jerkers claimed that they were going to :cry talk basketball :cry after he was banned :lol

[ambchang]

If a 35 year old Shawn Marion and Danny green can have a significant impact defending Lebron, rodman, pippen and such will shut him down.

People citing points per possessions are idiots. The rules are totally different and besides the 1989 pistons drating is closer to the grizzlies than the raptors. The author was purposely putting misguiding evidence to prove a point. Which is a shame. In fact the 1990 prisons have the same d rating as OKC this year. Which would rank them 6 th in today's league.

Fast forward to 1993, a team like the Knicks have and rating the same as the pacers and yet Jordan still puts up 30+ ppg.

[Splits]

Amazing how real basketball discussion has returned now that Harlem is back, even though the circle-jerkers claimed that they were going to :cry talk basketball :cry after he was banned :lol

http://global3.memecdn.com/Irony_o_98670.webp

[Malik Hairston]

If a 35 year old Shawn Marion and Danny green can have a significant impact defending Lebron, rodman, pippen and such will shut him down.

People citing points per possessions are idiots. The rules are totally different and besides the 1989 pistons drating is closer to the grizzlies than the raptors. The author was purposely putting misguiding evidence to prove a point. Which is a shame. In fact the 1990 prisons have the same d rating as OKC this year. Which would rank them 6 th in today's league.

Fast forward to 1993, a team like the Knicks have and rating the same as the pacers and yet Jordan still puts up 30+ ppg.

Even if you want to take the best Pistons' defense, which would rank 6th today, as you said(not even top 5), Lebron has routinely dominated superior defenses..not only did Lebron dominate, like Jordan, but he did it while exerting significantly more energy(which has been echoed by people such as Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe, who aren't Lebron homers like myself) on defense and rebounding..

I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he was put in a situation where he didn't have to exert energy playing defense and rebounding, along with playing inferior defenses to today's teams..

Your rule change argument is irrelevant, as there are both rules that aid today's teams play defense and rules that aided defenses back in the 80s..

[daslicer]

Individual defense is irrelevant in a discussion about team defenses:lol..

I provided numbers that demonstrate that the best defensive team in the 80s would be just a slightly above average defense in today's NBA..

Naturally, today's defenses have progressed due to the collection of more data, elaborate schemes and superior athleticism from the players..this can't really be argued..

The only counter-arguments from the posters in this thread are ":( Lebron couldn't handle the HARD FOULS of the 80s!!!"..:lol unquantifiable sports cliches..

Right you provided numbers and you spun them just like all politicians do to forward their agendas. You didn't factor in the 80's rosters had more scorers due to the league not suffering from the effects of expansion yet. So of course the scoring would have been higher back than.

Actually you are full of shit when you say individual defense would be irrelevant when talking about team defense. So by your logic we can say the Spurs 3 title teams after '99 would still be better defensively without Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan's presence I doubt it.

Also what do you mean by superior athleticism? The 80's and 90's was not a bunch of non athletic ymca white guys playing. There is not really not much difference between the current most athletic teams and the ones in the past. Run TMC, 90's sonics, 90's suns, 90's magic were pretty much as athletic as the top athletic teams today. Look at the current playoffs they are only 3 teams that are super athletic and that would be the Clippers,OKC,Rockets you can say Miami when the big 3 are injury free. Who else has out of world athleticism in the playoffs that rivals the 80's and 90's.

Lebron would still put up great numbers during that era but I don't think he would have it as easy as he does right now. It wasn't just hard fouls it was that fact that you could handcheck back then that it made it much more harder for an offensive player to score. Today the offensive player has the advantage because you literally can't touch them without a foul being called.

I rooted for Lebron in '10 and '11 to win it all simply because I felt he had the best chance at taking out the spurs hated rivals the Lakers and Mavs. In '10 he didn't get to the Lakers because he choked against the Celtics big time due to letting Pierce,Garnett, and Rondo get in his head. In '11 he let Marion, Terry and Stevenson get inside of his head and ended up choking that series. just based on what we know it is safe to say Lebron would have been mentally raped by those Piston teams.

[313]

LeBron is still, after b2b titles, a mentally weak faggot.

But is it because of the generation he grew up in, or is that just his natural personality? I don't know.

If it's his personality, then he wouldn't have made it in back in the day.

[TDMVPDPOY]

he isnt dominating today, what makes u think he dominate in any era?

he puts up nice stats, but it doesnt look like he clearly dominates games or team defenses collapsing on him

a physical specimen like him who flops around in todays league? and u want to put him in previous decades?

[Malik Hairston]

I hope we will reach a day where NBA fans and media recognize dominance outside of simple PPG, tbh..

We have made a lot of progress with the advancement of more elaborate stats and better media coverage from guys like Lowe, Simmons, Haberstroh, Abbott, etc, but most people are still stuck on the concept of domination only proven by PPG:lol..

[313]

I hope we will reach a day where NBA fans and media recognize dominance outside of simple PPG, tbh..

We have made a lot of progress with the advancement of more elaborate stats and better media coverage from guys like Lowe, Simmons, Haberstroh, Abbott, etc, but most people are still stuck on the concept of domination only proven by PPG:lol..

Dat you, HarlemHeat37?

[Malik Hairston]

Good observation, bro, I wonder how you solved that:lol..

Don't forget that $20 when Memphis loses, tbh..

[IrisHockey]

Dat you, HarlemHeat37?

Did you see Datsyuk's goal nigga?

[Malik Hairston]

Did you see Datsyuk's goal nigga?

Filthy:lol..

[Kool Bob Love]

Amazing how real basketball discussion has returned now that Harlem is back, even though the circle-jerkers claimed that they were going to :cry talk basketball :cry after he was banned :lol

I think everyone can agree that Harlem basketball takes are great. The problem is when he goes full Canadian. It's horseshit.

hope you follow he's lead now because I like reading your stuff too. :tu

[313]

Good observation, bro, I wonder how you solved that:lol..

Don't forget that $20 when Memphis loses, tbh..

Jesus man, didn't hear? That nigga Nick Calathes got suspended and won't be back for the series. 'Fraid the bet is off due to health. :angel

[313]

:lol I don't keep up with all the fooking drama on this forum tbh fwiw

[313]

Did you see Datsyuk's goal nigga?
Unfortunately I missed the game /: just saw it on ESPN though

Red wings in 5 btw

[IrisHockey]

Unfortunately I missed the game /: just saw it on ESPN though

I have a feeling this will be our year, tbh... I don't know why, I'm trying not to put my expectations too high, but this year has that awkward feel to it. We're completely under the radar which works in our favor too. If we beat Boston, we can beat anybody.

Every other year we won the title it was almost expected at the start of training camp. This year will be one like we've never seen before if we pull it off.

[313]

I have a feeling this will be our year, tbh... I don't know why, I'm trying not to put my expectations too high, but this year has that awkward feel to it. We're completely under the radar which works in our favor too. If we beat Boston, we can beat anybody.

Every other year we won the title it was almost expected at the start of training camp. This year will be one like we've never seen before if we pull it off.

I'm on the fence tbh I don't want to get my expectations too high after what happened last year.

It still hurts. :depressed

[IrisHockey]

I'm on the fence tbh I don't want to get my expectations too high after what happened last year.

It still hurts. :depressed

Yep. The feeling of losing a title like that is just unimaginable.. I took 5 months to get past losing to Colorado in '96. 2 months to get past losing the WS in 2006. 6 is something that lasts for eternity.

[spurraider21]

Amazing how real basketball discussion has returned now that Harlem is back, even though the circle-jerkers claimed that they were going to :cry talk basketball :cry after he was banned :lol
Most rational posters acknowledge that Harlem's takes are often the goods

[313]

Yep. The feeling of losing a title like that is just unimaginable.. I took 5 months to get past losing to Colorado in '96. 2 months to get past losing the WS in 2006. 6 is something that lasts for eternity.
:lol was talking about the Wings choking away a 3-1 lead to Chicago

Between the Lions going 4-12, the Spurs getting 6'd, the Red Wings choking, all topped off by Satan's team(the Boston Red Sox) beating my Tigers in October, I've had a terrible year as a sports fan :lol

Hopefully you're right about us, though. :tu

[Clipper Nation]

Yep. The feeling of losing a title like that is just unimaginable.. I took 5 months to get past losing to Colorado in '96. 2 months to get past losing the WS in 2006. 6 is something that lasts for eternity.

How long did it take you to get over this? :lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcNmXL8Lcr0

[IrisHockey]

How long did it take you to get over this? :lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcNmXL8Lcr0

Barely a week :lmao... Yzerman and Shanahan were both out, not that I want to make injury excuses, but Sergei Fedorov is a terrible leader :lol... Tony Parker attitude, even though he has CP3 skillset.

Plus, we got Brett Hull and Dom and Luc in the offseason... if we had gone far and lost to the Avs it may not have happened :lol


:lol was talking about the Wings choking away a 3-1 lead to Chicago

:lol not a single soul thought we were gonna get that far anyway...

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Come on, son, Frenzy at Figueroa was a 6-esque choke....

[spurraider21]

Those were the days when I still watched hockey regularly, pre-lockout. Was so pissed when the wings got robitaille

[Venti Quattro]

2012-2013 LeBron would absolutely destroy the 80's. If you give him the physicality that was allowed in the 80's, he would take it and shove it up his opponent's asses.

Sure, the Bad boys would rough him up, but they wouldn't win against a 6'8" guy who can play any position except center. If you put LeBron as starting 3 in the Showtime Lakers and slide Worthy to shooting guard, they would win out the entire decade.

Kevin McHale wouldn't dare to clothesline det LeBron in the air :lol

[IrisHockey]

:lol Come on, son, Frenzy at Figueroa was a 6-esque choke....

I know. Chris Osgood provided the Manu Ginobili goods, tbh.. :lol

Replacing him with Dom would be like the Spurs getting rid of Ginobili last offseason and getting Dirk Nowitzki..

[spurraider21]

I know. Chris Osgood provided the Manu Ginobili goods, tbh.. :lol

Replacing him with Dom would be like the Spurs getting rid of Ginobili last offseason and getting Dirk Nowitzki..
Osgood was usually terrible in big games. When hasek came back that was when shit got real

[IrisHockey]

Yea, but what's really interesting is how Osgood saved Dom's tired old shit bag ass in '08... jesus christ it was a like a hollywood script.

[lefty]

:lol @ the thought of LeBron playing in the zone-less 80s. The only proven formula to contain Lebron would be gone. Hard fouls wouldn't stop LeBron, he's still bigger than most people from that era too.
You forgot 2 things :

- handchecking was allowed
- there was no defensive 3 second rule

Meaning that before getting hard-foulded, Lebron would have to get to the rim 1st

Plus , back then superstars didnt get more calls than any othwer players - not before MJ and KFC complained to NBA about the Pistons being too physical


But to be fair to Lebron, he doesnt get the calls KD, MJ or Kirby have gotten

[Venti Quattro]

But to be fair to Lebron, he doesnt get the calls KD, MJ or Kirby have gotten

LOL yeah right

[spurraider21]

My favorite saga in recent years was Hossa jumping from Pitt to Detroit and losing in the Stanley cup to the other side both times :lol. At least he finally got it with the blacocks

[ambchang]

Even if you want to take the best Pistons' defense, which would rank 6th today, as you said(not even top 5), Lebron has routinely dominated superior defenses..not only did Lebron dominate, like Jordan, but he did it while exerting significantly more energy(which has been echoed by people such as Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe, who aren't Lebron homers like myself) on defense and rebounding..

I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he was put in a situation where he didn't have to exert energy playing defense and rebounding, along with playing inferior defenses to today's teams..

Your rule change argument is irrelevant, as there are both rules that aid today's teams play defense and rules that aided defenses back in the 80s..

Rule changes have significant impact from an individual defense perspective. Defenses like today forces teams to operate as a team and constant ball movement while earlier defenses favour one on one players. Lebron is a gear player but he is not a the GOAT one on one player.

As for defensive energy, you do know Jordan won DPoY and was one of the fiercest defensive player of all time, right? Jordan's defensive win shares were on average higher than Lebron. Jordan's carter high rebounds is the same as Lebron despite being smaller shorter and a guard. Lastly, Jordan had a way higher usage rate. I mean, saying Jordan didn't have to exert energy on defense and rebounding is borderline retarded.

Not to mention ridiculously weak teams in today's era (read: the entire eastern conference) drastically dragging down the defensive ratings numbers and we are it only talking about different rules, but a totally different sample set of teams and talent. Yet you try to come in and make it some like everything is equal and defensive rating is the be all and end all.

[lefty]

LOL yeah right
Right

Like that game vs Brooklyn when Lebron when to the basket on that final play and was 200% fouled, but no call

I can guarantee you that MJ, Kirby or MJ would have gotten 10 FT's

[Clipper Nation]

:lol LeBron would never get a call for doing this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rscqn3o8To4

KD still gets rewarded for his rip-through move constantly even though it's an offensive foul now, and Stern literally changed the rules to make it easier for Jordan to win :lol

Kirby, KD, MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeBron in ref favoritismPERIOD

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I think it's safe to say LeBron would be a top 3 player.. I just don't have him ahead of Bird or Magic...

[spurraider21]

Right

Like that game vs Brooklyn when Lebron when to the basket on that final play and was 200% fouled, but no call

I can guarantee you that MJ, Kirby or MJ would have gotten 10 FT's
Eh as I demonstrated in an earlier thread Lebron has consistently been among the leaders in FTA, but the number has dipped last 2 seasons (not coincidentally his lowest FGA numbers also came in those years)

[Clipper Nation]

Not a coincidence that the drop in LeBron's FTA numbers coincides with the league starting to make a big push for Durbeta as MVP and on LeBron's level while awarding him tons of bogus free throws :lol

[ambchang]

Also, why are you totally ignoring my comments about Marion and Danny green as well as the Knicks defense?

Speaking of Marion, why did a Dallas mavericks team with a d rating of 105 totally shut down Lebron in 2011?

[resistanze]

Remember when his Achilles snapped? He limped to the FT line and to the locker room - without the aid of a teammate or a wheelchair. LeBron couldn't do that.
LeBron's Achilles wouldn't have snapped :lol

[spurraider21]

Not a coincidence that the drop in LeBron's FTA numbers coincides with the league starting to make a big push for Durbeta as MVP and on LeBron's level while awarding him tons of bogus free throws :lol
This is the second time you brought up Durant in this Lebron discussion. Calm your tits tbh. Less FTA accompanying less FGA is very reasonable

[Malik Hairston]

Rule changes have significant impact from an individual defense perspective. Defenses like today forces teams to operate as a team and constant ball movement while earlier defenses favour one on one players. Lebron is a gear player but he is not a the GOAT one on one player.

As for defensive energy, you do know Jordan won DPoY and was one of the fiercest defensive player of all time, right? Jordan's defensive win shares were on average higher than Lebron. Jordan's carter high rebounds is the same as Lebron despite being smaller shorter and a guard. Lastly, Jordan had a way higher usage rate. I mean, saying Jordan didn't have to exert energy on defense and rebounding is borderline retarded.

Not to mention ridiculously weak teams in today's era (read: the entire eastern conference) drastically dragging down the defensive ratings numbers and we are it only talking about different rules, but a totally different sample set of teams and talent. Yet you try to come in and make it some like everything is equal and defensive rating is the be all and end all.

- :lmao Dad Killer played in the expansion era, the weakest era of basketball in modern NBA history..a league where Reggie Miller was the best player on a contender and John Starks was the #2 guy on a contending team, etc..

- It isn't arguable that today's defenses are more sophisticated and complex compared to the 80s..it's just natural progression..today's coaches took previous ideologies and expanded them, along with the technological improvements and more advanced data..it really isn't arguable, and handchecking is the only argument that pro-80s and 90s supporters have:lol..

- Dad Killer in '88 was a historic defender, which created an illusion for the rest of his career:lol..

He had a teammate that was arguably the best defensive perimeter player of all-time to guard the best player on the opposing team, in an era that had only a few notable perimeter players..Lebron routinely guards the opposing team's top player in the playoffs, he doesn't have anybody to fall back on, he had to shut down Rose, Parker, Pierce, etc..

Jordan ranks well in Defensive RAPM, but not in the elite like Pippen and Lebron..they both actually doubled his early 90s DRAPM numbers:lol..

Also, an indictment on Dad Killer is that the Bulls improved defensively when he left:lol..their defense somehow improved in the 1993-94 season without Jordan, speaks volumes on his defensive impact and responsibility, tbh..

- Jordan was one of the greatest rebounding guards of all-time, but he was still the #3 rebounder on his team:lol..Lebron is the primary rebounder on his team..

- There's literally no argument for Jordan exerting as much energy as Lebron, he isn't even close, in that regard..Jordan was the #3 rebounder and secondary defender on his team, while Lebron is the #1 everything on his team..I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he had a Pippen on defense:lol..

[spurraider21]

Damn

[lefty]

The expansion era was weaker thant the 80's, but today'S NBA is even weaker than the expansion era

[sook]

You forgot 2 things :

- handchecking was allowed
- there was no defensive 3 second rule

Meaning that before getting hard-foulded, Lebron would have to get to the rim 1st

Plus , back then superstars didnt get more calls than any othwer players - not before MJ and KFC complained to NBA about the Pistons being too physical


But to be fair to Lebron, he doesnt get the calls KD, MJ or Kirby have gotten

/thread

[Venti Quattro]

- :lmao Dad Killer played in the expansion era, the weakest era of basketball in modern NBA history..a league where Reggie Miller was the best player on a contender and John Starks was the #2 guy on a contending team, etc..

- It isn't arguable that today's defenses are more sophisticated and complex compared to the 80s..it's just natural progression..today's coaches took previous ideologies and expanded them, along with the technological improvements and more advanced data..it really isn't arguable, and handchecking is the only argument that pro-80s and 90s supporters have:lol..

- Dad Killer in '88 was a historic defender, which created an illusion for the rest of his career:lol..

He had a teammate that was arguably the best defensive perimeter player of all-time to guard the best player on the opposing team, in an era that had only a few notable perimeter players..Lebron routinely guards the opposing team's top player in the playoffs, he doesn't have anybody to fall back on, he had to shut down Rose, Parker, Pierce, etc..

Jordan ranks well in Defensive RAPM, but not in the elite like Pippen and Lebron..they both actually doubled his early 90s DRAPM numbers:lol..

Also, an indictment on Dad Killer is that the Bulls improved defensively when he left:lol..their defense somehow improved in the 1993-94 season without Jordan, speaks volumes on his defensive impact and responsibility, tbh..

- Jordan was one of the greatest rebounding guards of all-time, but he was still the #3 rebounder on his team:lol..Lebron is the primary rebounder on his team..

- There's literally no argument for Jordan exerting as much energy as Lebron, he isn't even close, in that regard..Jordan was the #3 rebounder and secondary defender on his team, while Lebron is the #1 everything on his team..I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he had a Pippen on defense:lol..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAm6XWEyH4I

[resistanze]

You forgot 2 things :

- handchecking was allowed
- there was no defensive 3 second rule

Meaning that before getting hard-foulded, Lebron would have to get to the rim 1st

Plus , back then superstars didnt get more calls than any othwer players - not before MJ and KFC complained to NBA about the Pistons being too physical


But to be fair to Lebron, he doesnt get the calls KD, MJ or Kirby have gotten

Well I'd say:
- the pace of the 80s and transition scoring fit right into Lebron's game
- Handchecking would only benefit a few elite defenders - it won't do shit for most guarding against his blow by
- He would constantly rub off screens constantly anyways to free himself from individual defenders (i.e. lack of a zone D hurts)
- LeBron's passing is elite - a big camping in the lane would be picked apart as well constantly

He wouldn't be invincible in the 80s but thinking he'd be any worse than MJ/Bird/Magic (ESPECIALLY MAGIC) is crazy. People saying he'd be just 'good' are lying to themselves.

[Malik Hairston]

Also, why are you totally ignoring my comments about Marion and Danny green as well as the Knicks defense?

Speaking of Marion, why did a Dallas mavericks team with a d rating of 105 totally shut down Lebron in 2011?

- What's your point regarding the Knicks?..I never said Dad Killer couldn't dominate a great defensive team..he's one of the 3 best players of all-time, and it also helped that he didn't have to play defense in that series against a team with the 22nd ranked offense and terrible perimeter players..

- Lebron had a poor series against Dallas, they didn't do anything special, he dominated superior defensive teams like Chicago in the same playoffs..he just had a poor series, which every great player has suffered from, including Dad Killer..

- Lebron was really good against the Spurs in the Finals, despite the raw scoring numbers, all while running virtually all of the offense(Wade couldn't stay on the floor and nobody else could create their own shot), and shutting down Tony Parker in games 6 and 7..

[Venti Quattro]

(ESPECIALLY MAGIC)

Lol, true. Magic lived up to his name on offense. He was spectacular and he played a major role for 5 title teams in LA, but his defense was like his immune system

[Malik Hairston]

What made Magic Johnson so tough, other than taking cocks in his ass, tbh?..

[resistanze]

Lol, true. Magic lived up to his name on offense. He was spectacular and he played a major role for 5 title teams in LA, but his defense was like his immune system

:lol

[Arcadian]

It is of course impossible to know for sure, and everyone's take is biased based on their view of him as a player today. I think it's entirely possible that he would be the best. The best players of that era were Magic and Bird. James at his peak was probably better than both.

[spurraider21]

Lebron is one of the only players I could think of that would be able to match up with magic and physically dominate him

[Venti Quattro]

Lebron is one of the only players I could think of that would be able to match up with magic and physically dominate him

Magic probably likes to be physically dominated

[Malik Hairston]

It's also funny that ambchang used Jordan vs. the Knicks in '93 as an example of Dad Killer vs. an elite, handchecking defense..a series where Jordan shot 40% from the field but averaged 11 fucking free throw attempts per game:lmao

Ridiculous officiating, considering the defenses were "so tough" back then, according to all these niggas:lol..

[Clipper Nation]

Harlem going HAM on Dad Killer's inflated legacy :wow

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

- :lmao Dad Killer played in the expansion era, the weakest era of basketball in modern NBA history..a league where Reggie Miller was the best player on a contender and John Starks was the #2 guy on a contending team, etc.

One of the stupidest, most vanilla opinions I've ever seen on this forum. Did you ever watch basketball from back in the day, or do you just not know that many players from the 90s? You probably saw Reggie when he was nothing better than a role player, and said "Well, he must have always been like this" like the narrow-minded dick licker you are, tbh..

[Malik Hairston]

One of the stupidest, most vanilla opinions I've ever seen on this forum. Did you ever watch basketball from back in the day?

How is it vanilla when it isn't the common opinion?..do you even know what vanilla means?:lol..go back to school, my nigga, you shouldn't have dropped out..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

11 fucking free throw attempts per game:lmao


Yet has no problem calling Kevin Durant elite when he averages 10 free throws per game and 9 per game over his career :rollin

[spurraider21]

That last post was like a hanging slider. About to get hit out of the park

[Malik Hairston]

I'm not trying to shit on Dad Killer, btw, he's one of the 3 best players of all-time, and probably the #1 athlete of all-time when we're ranking pro athletes that were involved in the murder of a parent..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

-

- There's literally no argument for Jordan exerting as much energy as Lebron, he isn't even close, in that regard..Jordan was the #3 rebounder and secondary defender on his team, while Lebron is the #1 everything on his team..I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he had a Pippen on defense:lol..


:lol Comparing LeBron and MJ in that regard. It's not as if MJ had someone on his team who averaged 18 rebounds per game for their career :lol. It's also not as if they had one of the best all-around players of all time on their team.

:lol cherry picking but not knowing what the hell you're talking about

[Splits]

Harlem going HAM on Dad Killer's inflated legacy :wow

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/knob.gif

[Malik Hairston]

:lol Comparing LeBron and MJ in that regard. It's not as if MJ had someone on his team who averaged 18 rebounds per game for their career :lol. It's also not as if they had one of the best all-around players of all time on their team.

:lol cherry picking but not knowing what the hell you're talking about

:lol you just proved my point..

Go back to school, son..

[Clipper Nation]

It's not as if MJ had someone on his team who averaged 18 rebounds per game for their career :lol. It's also not as if they had one of the best all-around players of all time on their team.

Boiled down: Dad Killer had stacked teams to carry him, whereas LeBron has to do everything himself :lol

[Clipper Nation]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/knob.gif

Cuck reduced to posting nothing but the same three unfunny GIF's :lol

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lol you just proved my point..

Go back to school, son..

:lol downplaying how good of a player reggie was
:lol not knowing your basic 90's shooting guards

[Venti Quattro]

Boiled down: Dad Killer had stacked teams to carry him, whereas LeBron has to do everything himself :lol
What the?! LeBron is really good but did we suddenly forget that Bosh and Wade existed?

[Clipper Nation]

What the?! Did we forget that Bosh and Wade existed?

You mean soft-ass Bosh Spice, and a washed-up broken down Wade? LeBron had to lead the entire series in points, assists, and steals in the Finals last year and it still took seven games :lol

People who act like Miami is some mega-stacked team are still living in 2011 :lol

[Splits]

Cuck reduced to posting nothing but the same three unfunny GIF's :lol

ClitNat reduced to posting nothing but the same three unfunny takes:

1) Harlem let me polish your knob I'm so glad your back
2) Nobody wants to talk about basketball when my cumguzzlers are banned, especially me! All I can do :cry be alone :cry thank god Harlem has a troll!
3) Daddy 2 > Kirby 1

:cry

[lefty]

It's also funny that ambchang used Jordan vs. the Knicks in '93 as an example of Dad Killer vs. an elite, handchecking defense..a series where Jordan shot 40% from the field but averaged 11 fucking free throw attempts per game:lmao

Ridiculous officiating, considering the defenses were "so tough" back then, according to all these niggas:lol..

Knicks got fucked by the refs in the 93 ECF

You couldn't get anywhere near MJ in game 5

[Malik Hairston]

:lmao Reggie Miller :lmao

:lol worse version of prime Ray Allen

[Clipper Nation]

ClitNat reduced to posting nothing but the same three unfunny takes:

1) Harlem let me polish your knob I'm so glad your back
2) Nobody wants to talk about basketball when my cumguzzlers are banned, especially me! All I can do :cry be alone :cry thank god Harlem has a troll!
3) Daddy 2 > Kirby 1

:cry
1. Post an unfunny GIF
2. When nobody laughs, PM your buddies to come into the thread and laugh at it
3. Cry over your status as a cuckhold

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lmao Reggie Miller :lmao

:lol worse version of prime Ray Allen


http://media.tumblr.com/c844073530a8205af28f4d9a4d9ef2c5/tumblr_mucubvXCT11s0t2l6o2_400.gif

what exactly is your point? reggie wasn't as good as ray so that means he wasn't a great SG?

[Splits]

:cry please unban thunderup and irish cock so everyone will stop picking on me :cry

[TDMVPDPOY]

http://media.tumblr.com/c844073530a8205af28f4d9a4d9ef2c5/tumblr_mucubvXCT11s0t2l6o2_400.gif

do u posts anything legitimate besides fkn gifs? go back upstairs faggot

dad killer overrated posse who benefited in the triangle offence, all possessions goto him, same shit b4 without phil came along...just another ball hog chucker looking for points then starts working into other stat columns to increase his per

[Clipper Nation]

:cry Please ban BD and Irishock, I'm tired of being regulated :cry

[lefty]

:lmao Reggie Miller :lmao

:lol worse version of prime Ray Allen

Yeah Ray would have scored 25 pts vs the Knicks in the 4th quarter.
Or 8 pts in the last seconds of a game vs the same Knicks.
(botj times in the playoffs)

Gtfo :lol

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

do u posts anything legitimate besides fkn gifs? go back upstairs faggot

dad killer overrated posse who benefited in the triangle offence, all possessions goto him, same shit b4 without phil came along...just another ball hog chucker looking for points then starts working into other stat columns to increase his per

:lol "chucker" shooting at 48% for his career as a shooting guard

:rollin are you dyslexic?

[Venti Quattro]

You mean soft-ass Bosh Spice, and a washed-up broken down Wade? LeBron had to lead the entire series in points, assists, and steals in the Finals last year and it still took seven games :lol

People who act like Miami is some mega-stacked team are still living in 2011 :lol

Wade and Bosh were still very productive last year, despite the insults you just hurled at them. Wade may be slowing down, but he's still capable of 30/7/7 if the Heat need him. And Bosh... well, he got the rebound that set up Jesus for 6. You are discrediting San Antonio by saying "it still took Miami 7 games". Let's not forget that the Spurs were one rebound away from the championship...

[Clipper Nation]

Yeah Ray would have scored 25 pts vs the Knicks in the 4th quarter.
Or 8 pts in the last seconds of a game vs the same Knicks.
(botj times in the playoffs)

Gtfo :lol
Not sure a Spurfan should be bringing up clutch playoff moments with Ray Allen, tbh :lol

[CitizenDwayne]

Yet has no problem calling Kevin Durant elite when he averages 10 free throws per game and 9 per game over his career :rollin

That's a good point actually

[CitizenDwayne]

If you put LeBron as starting 3 in the Showtime Lakers and slide Worthy to shooting guard, they would win out the entire decade.


So a team with a starting lineup including Magic, Lebron, Worthy and KAJ would win a lot? Really going out on a limb there, bud

[lefty]

Not sure a Spurfan should be bringing up clutch playoff moments with Ray Allen, tbh :lol

:lol

[Venti Quattro]

Yeah Ray would have scored 25 pts vs the Knicks in the 4th quarter.
Or 8 pts in the last seconds of a game vs the same Knicks.
(botj times in the playoffs)

Gtfo :lol
:lol Reggie Miller liked choking on dicks when it mattered the most

Everyone remembers how he killed Spike Lee in Game 5 the 1994 ECF but nobody even remembers that he choked so hard in Games 6 and 7.

He also choked in Game 7 of the 1998 ECF and Game 5 of the 2004 ECF

:lol Tayshaun Prince

[lefty]

:lol Reggie Miller liked choking on dicks when it mattered the most

Everyone remembers how he killed Spike Lee in Game 5 the 1993 ECF but nobody even remembers that he choked so hard in Games 6 and 7.

He also choked in Game 7 of the 1998 ECF and Game 5 of the 2004 ECF

:lol Tayshaun Prince

:lol true true

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lol Reggie Miller liked choking on dicks when it mattered the most

Everyone remembers how he killed Spike Lee in Game 5 the 1993 ECF but nobody even remembers that he choked so hard in Games 6 and 7.

He also choked in Game 7 of the 1998 ECF and Game 5 of the 2004 ECF

:lol Tayshaun Prince

Reggie was old as fuck in 04

[Venti Quattro]

Reggie was old as fuck in 04

Yeah he was old as fuck but how do you choke away a wide-open layup like this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJ4iwqnLKc

Inexcusable, buddy

[Splits]

Yeah he was old as fuck but how do you choke away a wide-open layup like this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJ4iwqnLKc

Inexcusable, buddy

:lmao 69-67 in a playoff game

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lol in Harlem's eyes, Reggie was the best SG in the game. Guess Drexler, Iverson, Richmond, Steve Smith, Stackhouse among others don't count..

[Killakobe81]

You forgot 2 things :

- handchecking was allowed
- there was no defensive 3 second rule

Meaning that before getting hard-foulded, Lebron would have to get to the rim 1st

Plus , back then superstars didnt get more calls than any othwer players - not before MJ and KFC complained to NBA about the Pistons being too physical


But to be fair to Lebron, he doesnt get the calls KD, MJ or Kirby have gotten

Lol stars always got calls, at least since the 80's
ROFL Lebron doesn't get calls ... Truth if you talking personal fouls only the biggest Lebron ball lickers buy that.

[Killakobe81]

I do think MJ is overrated by many but Lebron lovers attacking him only digs in Mj lovers further ...

Harlem is making some great points, tbh but the Lebron jizz clouds the message.

[lefty]

Lol stars always got calls, at least since the 80's
ROFL Lebron doesn't get calls ... Truth if you talking personal fouls only the biggest Lebron ball lickers buy that.
He doesnt get calls compared to Kirby, MJ and KD

[TheGoldStandard]

So many variables to factor in here

- Is it a plug and play type situation with current version Lebron or do we see skinny bron before he beefed up?
- who's he playing for, who's his coach (how will he be used)

I don't think the physical play would have stopped him, after all it's still basketball and you learn to take what the defense gives you. The 80's had physical play between teams that really hated each other, they went at it but there was a lot of finesse in the 80's as well and there were a several guys who could score at will. I think much of Lebron's success would have been on what team he would have been on, can't win championships alone and he's a shining example of that with his Cleveland days.

[spurraider21]

:lol Comparing LeBron and MJ in that regard. It's not as if MJ had someone on his team who averaged 18 rebounds per game for their career :lol. It's also not as if they had one of the best all-around players of all time on their team.

:lol cherry picking but not knowing what the hell you're talking about
are you forgetting which position you are trying to argue? you are literally demonstrating that MJ had loads of help in an attempt to prop MJ up? lol

You mean soft-ass Bosh Spice
a) using skip bayless material :rolleyes
b) using a funny nickname is not an argument to downgrade what bosh brings to that team

what exactly is your point? reggie wasn't as good as ray so that means he wasn't a great SG?
the fact is, Ray Allen was never a #1 on a true contender, or rather, should never have been. in his prime he would have been a worthy #2. before he was a #3 on boston, he made 1 ECF with the bucks in a pathetic east that was eventually represented by the sixers led by iverson :lol

ray allen is a laughable #1 option, and as Malik Hairston said, Reggie is a not-as-good version of Ray, making him an even more laughable #1

[Sean Cagney]

You have to factor in that Laimbeer hated Jordan with a passion so you can only take his comments with a grain of salt that was more of a parting shot at MJ than a compliment towards Lebron. By your logic I guess I should take Rodman's comments seriously since he said recently that Lebron would be a second rate player during the 80's and 90s had he played during that time period. He also said the Heat would easily lose to any of the second tier teams during the 90's. I should also take John Salley's comments seriously since he said that Kobe is better than both MJ and Lebron since he was from that era. Your nothing but a hardcore Lebron fanboy. Do you honestly believe anybody on the current Raptors teams is a better one on one defender than Rodman and Dumars. Name me one guy who is better than those 2 defense wise.It is Harlem Heat btw, the Fanboy of the Ages for Lebron! LOL at Salley as well and Laimbeer, I know they have a hate for MJ deep inside honestly and will say the shit just to spite their rival! I know for a fact that is it. Some have said MJ would average near 40 or so in this era as well! Guess we should listen to all of what someone says as facts now! Harlem is a fanboy of Bron period. I have never seen MJ in his prime look scared in a big game or turning the ball over like Bron has! He has looked terrified in big games where as MJ would look and smile and confident! I don't see that in Bron alot of times.

[RsxPiimp]

I'm not trying to shit on Dad Killer, btw, he's one of the 3 best players of all-time, and probably the #1 athlete of all-time when we're ranking pro athletes that were involved in the murder of a parent..

:lol

[jermaine]

Bitch please...Karl Malone would have made Bron look like a fucking bean pole...in fact Rodman would have shut Bron down...been all up in his soft little ass....If Malone couldn't fuck wit h Rodman what makes your dumb ass think Lebron could...man I tell ya...you cats get dumber by the min :lol

This is so true. Not only Rodman, Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley also. I grew up loving the Pistons an Knicks cuz the ruff you up attitude. Labron would go in the paint enough so his game definitely wouldn't be the same. He lacks the killer instincts that Jordan had. That Kobe has. So I don't think Labron would've made it.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Rule changes have significant impact from an individual defense perspective. Defenses like today forces teams to operate as a team and constant ball movement while earlier defenses favour one on one players. Lebron is a gear player but he is not a the GOAT one on one player. As for defensive energy, you do know Jordan won DPoY and was one of the fiercest defensive player of all time, right? Jordan's defensive win shares were on average higher than Lebron. Jordan's carter high rebounds is the same as Lebron despite being smaller shorter and a guard. Lastly, Jordan had a way higher usage rate. I mean, saying Jordan didn't have to exert energy on defense and rebounding is borderline retarded. Not to mention ridiculously weak teams in today's era (read: the entire eastern conference) drastically dragging down the defensive ratings numbers and we are it only talking about different rules, but a totally different sample set of teams and talent. Yet you try to come in and make it some like everything is equal and defensive rating is the be all and end all.I hope this didnt flew under anyones radar. This post nailed it IMO.

[jermaine]

Bitch please...Karl Malone would have made Bron look like a fucking bean pole...in fact Rodman would have shut Bron down...been all up in his soft little ass....If Malone couldn't fuck wit h Rodman what makes your dumb ass think Lebron could...man I tell ya...you cats get dumber by the min :lol

This is so true. Not only Rodman, Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley also. I grew up loving the Pistons an Knicks cuz the ruff you up attitude. Labron would go in the paint enough so his game definitely wouldn't be the same. He lacks the killer instincts that Jordan had. That Kobe has. So I don't think Labron would've made it.

[JoeTait75]

Nobody has mentioned that had LeBron played in the '80s he wouldn't have come straight to the NBA out of high school; he would have played at least 2-3 years of high-level college ball, probably in an elite program under an elite coach. So instead of learning on the job under the tutelage of guys like Paul Silas and Mike Brown he would have entered the NBA with 2-3 years of developing his game under someone like Dean Smith. That would have been huge for LeBron, IMO, in terms of knowing how to play defense and how to perform under pressure in big games.

[RsxPiimp]

Nobody has mentioned that had LeBron played in the '80s he wouldn't have come straight to the NBA out of high school; he would have played at least 2-3 years of high-level college ball, probably in an elite program under an elite coach. So instead of learning on the job under the tutelage of guys like Paul Silas and Mike Brown he would have entered the NBA with 2-3 years of developing his game under someone like Dean Smith. That would have been huge for LeBron, IMO, in terms of knowing how to play defense and how to perform under pressure in big games.

I think college programs are great but to be quite honest it probably has little impact in the pro level, they learn fundamentals and retain those but everything else is scrapped in the NBA. Different league, different rules, higher level of competition . The great players regardless of who coached them can fine tune their skill level as they go along. It's no surprise that some of the best college players are unable to translate their success in the pro level, simply put, they're skill level is not as good without a system in place to make then successful where as a highly skilled athlete will produce under any circumstance.


I think Lebron is going to be an absolute beast no matter which era. I don't know if he'll be THE best, but considering his would be competitor for that title is a skinny ass Jordan, Bird and Magic, both whom are below his level and perhaps Barkley, I'd buy that idea.

Fwiw, I can't help but wonder how Lebron in that Cleveland team would fare against Jordan's Bulls. Just thinking about it, Jordan wouldn't be the legend that he is today. Best believe that.

[lefty]

^
Lol the 1990s Cavs didn't have LBJ, but they were stacked compared to the Lebron version.

Lebron's Cavs would have gotten their asses handed to them.

On the other hand, the Blazers with a healthy and younger Sabonis would have prevented MJ from winning a bunch of titles.

And ambchang is right, it's no coincidence that 2former Pistons have said that MJ is not the best ever

[Kawhi]

Lebron gets bullied by 6'0 feet tall guards what makes you think he can handle guys like Rodman, Worthy, Malone, etc.

[Trainwreck2100]

Boiled down: Dad Killer had stacked teams to carry him, whereas LeBron has to do everything himself :lol

Until he colluded with 2 all stars and joined up with them because he couldn't do it by himself m

[Clipper Nation]

On the other hand, the Blazers with a healthy and younger Sabonis would have prevented MJ from winning a bunch of titles.
lol tschlong

Additionally, if the Sonics didn't always get away with illegal defense against Houston, Hakeem would have pushed Dad Killer's shit in :lol

[Clipper Nation]

Until he colluded with 2 all stars and joined up with them because he couldn't do it by himself m
Yet every year, LeBron has to switch into "Cleveland Mode" in the playoffs to bail out Wade and Bosh.... when LeBron simply doesn't have it for a series, like in 2011, that "stacked" Heat team is fucked :lol

Compare that to Dad Killer choking against the Sonics in '96 (5-19 from the floor and 5 turnovers in Game 6), they still won because the team was actually stacked :lol

[G-Dawgg]

Lebron would not get nearly as many layups with bruisers like Oakley, Horace Grant, Mason, Rodman, Xavier McDaniel, and Karl Malone, in the paint... not to mention that was the era when the 'true centers' patrolled the paint. Every team had a gigantic 7foot center to block shots... Robinson, Mutombo, Olajuwan, Ewing, Mourning, O'neal, Duckworth, Divac, Smits, Campbell.. the list goes on.. Lebron would settle for more jumpers. Otherwise he'd be getting blocked Plumlee-style on a regular basis...

[JoeTait75]

Fwiw, I can't help but wonder how Lebron in that Cleveland team would fare against Jordan's Bulls. Just thinking about it, Jordan wouldn't be the legend that he is today. Best believe that.

Considering SF was the weakest position on that team, and you would have been swapping out Mike Sanders for LeBron? Ridiculous.. Just think about how that team would have shared the ball w/Price, LeBron and Daugherty (the best passing center in the game at the time.) They would have had to outlaw that team.

[Venti Quattro]

Lebron would not get nearly as many layups with bruisers like Oakley, Horace Grant, Mason, Rodman, Xavier McDaniel, and Karl Malone, in the paint... not to mention that was the era when the the 'true centers ' patrolled the paint. Every team had a gigantic 7foot center to block shots... Robinson, Mutombo, Olajuwan, Ewing, Mourning, O'neal, Duckworth, Divac, Smits, Campbell.. the list goes on.. Lebron would settle for more jumpers. Otherwise he'd be getting blocked Plumlee-style on a regular basis...

LeBron is a combination of bulk, power and speed. He might get blocked once in a while, but he will overpower these big men.

[lefty]

G-dawgg with the troof bombs

[G-Dawgg]

Those were the days when the dinosaurs roamed the paint..

[TDMVPDPOY]

lebron shitted the bed when kawhi d him up like a bitch he is...nothing see here

[RsxPiimp]

Lebron would not get nearly as many layups with bruisers like Oakley, Horace Grant, Mason, Rodman, Xavier McDaniel, and Karl Malone, in the paint... not to mention that was the era when the the 'true centers ' patrolled the paint. Every team had a gigantic 7foot center to block shots... Robinson, Mutombo, Olajuwan, Ewing, Mourning, O'neal, Duckworth, Divac, Smits, Campbell.. the list goes on.. Lebron would settle for more jumpers. Otherwise he'd be getting blocked Plumlee-style on a regular basis...
But Jordan had no problems scoring in the paint during those days. I can't imagine Lebron shying away from contact. People are citing Lebrons flops as weakness but it's not synonymous with physical play. I don't support it and actually wish he would change, he doesn't need it but unfortunately the league has turned a blind eye on it. The rules they have implemented are a joke. Players nowadays are looking for any extra edge they could get which is no different than what players are doing back then by way of intimidation.

[RsxPiimp]

Considering SF was the weakest position on that team, and you would have been swapping out Mike Sanders for LeBron? Ridiculous.. Just think about how that team would have shared the ball w/Price, LeBron and Daugherty (the best passing center in the game at the time.) They would have had to outlaw that team.

My man JoeTait75 skipping the duck tales. That Cavs team with Lebron would challenge the Pistons and Celtics IMO.

[lefty]

Well the Cavs were stacked back then, so Im sure Lebron would have had all the help needed to win multiple titles in the late 80s/90s

[Trainwreck2100]

Yet every year, LeBron has to switch into "Cleveland Mode" in the playoffs to bail out Wade and Bosh.... when LeBron simply doesn't have it for a series, like in 2011, that "stacked" Heat team is fucked :lol

Compare that to Dad Killer choking against the Sonics in '96 (5-19 from the floor and 5 turnovers in Game 6), they still won because the team was actually stacked :lol
Who bailed out LeBron and got the rebound off his miss in game six?

[Clipper Nation]

Who bailed out LeBron and got the rebound off his miss in game six?
Who blew the Heat's lead in the final minutes when he checked in and ruined the spacing of their offense? Who hit the clutch shot with 20.1 remaining that made Allen's shot matter?

[Trainwreck2100]

Who blew the Heat's lead in the final minutes when he checked in and ruined the spacing of their offense? Who hit the clutch shot with 20.1 remaining that made Allen's shot matter?

Who "blocked" Danny green in game five making game 6 a possibility?

[313]

Yeah he was old as fuck but how do you choke away a wide-open layup like this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJ4iwqnLKc

Inexcusable, buddy
Lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Who "blocked" Danny green in game five making game 6 a possibility?
Who vanished in Game 2, needing the rest of the team to bail him out?

Who went 0-5 with 0 points and not even double digit rebounds in Game 7?

[Trainwreck2100]

Who vanished in Game 2, needing the rest of the team to bail him out?

Who went 0-5 with 0 points and not even double digit rebounds in Game 7?
We can go around in circles all you want but LeBron hasn't hasn't proven he can win by himself. ( wade game 4) Did they have shirts games? Nobody's questioning that but could LeBron win without them fuck no. Unfortunately for him his shenanigans led to the owners dicking the players with the new cba so now his collusion will have to go through Nike and Samsung and the like.

[resistanze]

We can go around in circles all you want but LeBron hasn't hasn't proven he can win by himself.
He pretty much carried the Heat for the first championship (2011-12). Besides Duncan in 2003 and Hakeem in 1994 I can't think of a championship run so dependent on one player.

[Trainwreck2100]

He pretty much carried the Heat for the first championship (2011-12). Besides Duncan in 2003 and Hakeem in 1994 I can't think of a championship run so dependent on one player.
The first one was a lot like Duncan's 99 strike shortened season against a finals team that has no business being there. Okc without the refs had no business being there and they showed it when they got steamrolled when the zebras swallowed their whistles.

[resistanze]

The first one was a lot like Duncan's 99 strike shortened season against a finals team that has no business being there. Okc without the refs had no business being there and they showed it when they got steamrolled when the zebras swallowed their whistles.

How can a team make it out of the oh so difficult West and not deserve to be there? :lol
Lebron led the Heat in Points, Rebounds, Assists, and steals during the playoff run. He carried em either way.

[Brazil]

^
Lol the 1990s Cavs didn't have LBJ, but they were stacked compared to the Lebron version.

Lebron's Cavs would have gotten their asses handed to them.

On the other hand, the Blazers with a healthy and younger Sabonis would have prevented MJ from winning a bunch of titles.

And ambchang (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=986) is right, it's no coincidence that 2former Pistons have said that MJ is not the best ever

Oh man I would have loved to see blazers with a prime Sabonis. They would have been crazy good.

[jimbo]

How can a team make it out of the oh so difficult West and not deserve to be there? :lol
Lebron led the Heat in Points, Rebounds, Assists, and steals during the playoff run. He carried em either way.

because :cry Ibaka and Perkins made jumpshots :cry

:cry Thunderref :cry

Tbh, equating the 98-99 lockout to the 11-12 one is ridiculous. People actually learned from the fuckups of the first lockout. (Namely don't get fat as fuck)

It's not like we had another 8th seed in the finals...

[Trainwreck2100]

How can a team make it out of the oh so difficult West and not deserve to be there? :lol
Lebron led the Heat in Points, Rebounds, Assists, and steals during the playoff run. He carried em either way.
Thunder playing without ref support is like playing short a man for them.

[G-Dawgg]

But Jordan had no problems scoring in the paint during those days. I can't imagine Lebron shying away from contact. People are citing Lebrons flops as weakness but it's not synonymous with physical play. I don't support it and actually wish he would change, he doesn't need it but unfortunately the league has turned a blind eye on it. The rules they have implemented are a joke. Players nowadays are looking for any extra edge they could get which is no different than what players are doing back then by way of intimidation.
Why would you ever compare Lebron to Jordan? I watched Jordan play growing up so I know how good he is, not based on some Youtube videos or pure stat crunching. In his prime, Jordan is unmatched at how he took over games and imposed his will on EVERY team and EVERY other superstar player he played against. Tbh I'm not even a big Jordan fan, but he was THAT good. believe the hype. Period. Lebron is a physical freak, but he is not nearly the competitor that Jordan was.

[Clipper Nation]

He pretty much carried the Heat for the first championship (2011-12). Besides Duncan in 2003 and Hakeem in 1994 I can't think of a championship run so dependent on one player.
He also carried a shit team to the Finals by himself in Cleveland :lol

[sexinthatsx]

People are discounting that 80's basketball wasn't hand-checking... players were literally "sniping" other team's best players. Lebron's game relies on sheer power more than finesse, so I don't think he will be able to last a whole season, let alone be the best player during that era.

[ambchang]

- :lmao Dad Killer played in the expansion era, the weakest era of basketball in modern NBA history..a league where Reggie Miller was the best player on a contender and John Starks was the #2 guy on a contending team, etc..

As opposed to Tony Parker being the best player on a contender and Roy Hibbert being the #2 guy on a contending team? How about a contending team with McHale, Brooks as coaches? How about a coach like Spoelstra leading a team to b2b titles? How about a team with Dirk (legit superstar) and a bunch of castoffs winning a championship?


- It isn't arguable that today's defenses are more sophisticated and complex compared to the 80s..it's just natural progression..today's coaches took previous ideologies and expanded them, along with the technological improvements and more advanced data..it really isn't arguable, and handchecking is the only argument that pro-80s and 90s supporters have:lol..

a) Offenses are way more complex in today's game as well, allowing players to exploit weaknesses in defense and such
b) Didn't stop a guy like Phil Jackson and Pop leading teams to multiple championships in the new NBA.


- Dad Killer in '88 was a historic defender, which created an illusion for the rest of his career:lol..

In fact, Jordan had higher defensive win shares in 96 as he did in 88. In total, he had 9 seasons of 5+ DWS seasons. You try to make 88 as a flash in the pan season defensively for Jordan. it wasn't.

For comparison's sake, Lebron have 4 seasons out of 11 with a DWS of 5+, Jordan had 9 out of 15.


He had a teammate that was arguably the best defensive perimeter player of all-time to guard the best player on the opposing team, in an era that had only a few notable perimeter players..Lebron routinely guards the opposing team's top player in the playoffs, he doesn't have anybody to fall back on, he had to shut down Rose, Parker, Pierce, etc..

So you are now penalizing players for the quality of teammates? What does that have to do with anything.


Jordan ranks well in Defensive RAPM, but not in the elite like Pippen and Lebron..they both actually doubled his early 90s DRAPM numbers:lol..

Defensive RAPM also said Vlade Divacs is three times the defender Jordan is in 1991, and Manute Bol is a better defender than Hakeem. It's a stat that is heavily influenced by lineups and oppositions.


Also, an indictment on Dad Killer is that the Bulls improved defensively when he left:lol..their defense somehow improved in the 1993-94 season without Jordan, speaks volumes on his defensive impact and responsibility, tbh..

Going from 7th in the league in DRating vs. 6th in the league the following season? The league was seeing dramatic changes in offensive and defensive philosophies in the 90s, and that was part of the transition. The Heat didn't dramatically improve their defense with vs. without Lebron, what does that say about Lebron's defensive impact and responsibilities?


- Jordan was one of the greatest rebounding guards of all-time, but he was still the #3 rebounder on his team:lol..Lebron is the primary rebounder on his team..

Jordan had better rebounding teammates, and Lebron's teammates suck at rebounding. So? In fact, doesn't that speak to how crappy today's NBA rebounding is? Lebron had a career high RPG of 8, same as Jordan. And yet Jordan was #3 on a championship leading team, Lebron is #1. Seems like rebounding sucks in today's NBA, no?


- There's literally no argument for Jordan exerting as much energy as Lebron, he isn't even close, in that regard..Jordan was the #3 rebounder and secondary defender on his team, while Lebron is the #1 everything on his team..I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he had a Pippen on defense:lol..

Rebounding is the only that require defensive energy now? Lebron had a career high of 2.2 spg, Jordan had 9 season with the same or a higher (sometimes MUCH higher) average. Lebron career high for blocks was 1.1 bpg, and Jordan, despite being shorter and plays more out in the perimeter, had 3 seasons with a higher average.

Come to think of it, a team that had Lebron as the leading rebounder, defender and scorer is a b2b championship winning team, and yet Jordan, a player who by all statistical measure is an equal, or at least comparable defender to Lebron, is the #2 or #3 on championship teams. Does that not speak to the current NBA sucking more?


- What's your point regarding the Knicks?..I never said Dad Killer couldn't dominate a great defensive team..he's one of the 3 best players of all-time, and it also helped that he didn't have to play defense in that series against a team with the 22nd ranked offense and terrible perimeter players..

That your assertion of Jordan consistently racking up empty stats vs. bad defensive teams are incorrect. You said the Pistons were a Raptors like defense (shown false), but ignored the Knicks being an equal defensive team (by your measure) as the #1 ranked defense.

And :lol, you want to talk about the Knicks offense now? What about the Pacers last year? Was that some dynamite offense with a legendary perimeter offense or what? And who can forget Lebron's dominating performances against juggernaut teams like the Bucks, the Roseless Bulls, and Knicks! Anymore goalpost you want to move?


- Lebron had a poor series against Dallas, they didn't do anything special, he dominated superior defensive teams like Chicago in the same playoffs..he just had a poor series, which every great player has suffered from, including Dad Killer..

Sure Jordan struggled against the Sonics, who happened to have one of the best defensive players of all time. There are also those Knicks series, where the entire point was to rough up Jordan. Any other series you want to mention? As for James, there's the Mavs series, 07 vs. the Spurs, half of last year's series vs the Spurs, last year vs. the Bulls, 11 vs. the Bulls.


- Lebron was really good against the Spurs in the Finals, despite the raw scoring numbers, all while running virtually all of the offense(Wade couldn't stay on the floor and nobody else could create their own shot), and shutting down Tony Parker in games 6 and 7..

Lebron was clearly the best player in last year's finals, but he still struggled through half the series. Fact is, you can severely hurt Lebron's contribution when his jump shot is off, and his jump shot is still wildly inconsistent. You can't say the same for Jordan, especially not after a decade in the league.

[ambchang]

It's also funny that ambchang used Jordan vs. the Knicks in '93 as an example of Dad Killer vs. an elite, handchecking defense..a series where Jordan shot 40% from the field but averaged 11 fucking free throw attempts per game:lmao

Ridiculous officiating, considering the defenses were "so tough" back then, according to all these niggas:lol..

As opposed to Lebron shooting 52 FTAs vs. the Bulls last year while shooting 43.8% from the field? How about 44 FTAs vs the Bulls in 11 while shooting 44.7%?

It's not like the Knicks were known not to foul, where they were ranked 24th in the league in FT allowed.

[LkrFan]

He also carried a shit team to the Finals by himself in Cleveland :lol
Josh McBob put him on his ass and he acted like he was about to die:

pjl3zOYPbRg

Imagine him going in the lane against The Bad Boys. Wouldn't be pretty tbh.

[lefty]

Oh man I would have loved to see blazers with a prime Sabonis. They would have been crazy good.
They would have destroyed the NBA, even though Drexler and Co had that choke gene in them, they would have been just too good