PtR: Who's to blame for the Spurs turnovers in Game 2?

[Dex]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2014/4/24/5647544/spurs-turnovers-game-2-maverick

Nice breakdown of the turnovers in Game 2, but this little tidbit caught my attention:


As I typed his name just now I thought, 'Marco has clearly been the worst player in the series.' I then thought, 'I bet he's been the worst player in the playoffs.' Turns out, I was correct. For players averaging more than 20 mpg, Marco has the worst net rating in the playoffs at a whopping -43.7, OffRtg of 88.2 and DefRtg of 131.8. Funny enough, Gary Neal comes in second to last place with a net rating of -39. So don't miss Gary too much. To be fair, I thought I'd decrease the minutes played constraint to greater than 15 instead of 20. Two players shot ahead of Marco: Boris at -52.8 and Patty at -45. I'm tired of this game. I'm going to stop playing.

:depressed

[superjames1992]

Patty. :lol

[rascal]

Marco was the Spurs big addition last offseason.

[Expert]

Marco was the Spurs big addition last offseason.

Spurs fans (people in general actually) are so reactionary... like a school of baitfish. One flash and they freak. Marco goes off, he's a god. Marco does poorly, it's "I told you so".

[DPG21920]

^Somewhat agree - but the argument typically has been is he an upgrade over Neal and many debated that fact well before he did anything in a Spurs uniform. Not only regular season, but playoffs. But it's just two games in, so I digress.

[loveforthegame]

The bench has been a huge disappointment. The starters have struggled at times but the bench have been dismal.

[Kidd K]

Sad read right there. I'm disappointed in Diaw most of all tbh. I didn't expect much out of Belinelli having seen him play in Chicago firsthand recently, and Mills I mean nice regular season player but I didn't expect more than a good game or two each series out of him, and otherwise mediocre to shit performances.

Diaw is supposed to be reliable though. At least he has been since we got him. Hope he and Green can step it up a bit for us since I know they're capable. Leonard needs to stop sucking too. Even frickin Manu is playing well. No excuses for anyone else not getting it done.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Its just 2 games. Hold your effing horses, cliffjumpers. The Spurs aren't 0-2. THey are 1-1.

[Johnny RIngo]

Always thought it was a bad idea to waste the MLE on Ayres and Marco. One's a D-League level big man and the other's a chucker that belongs on lottery teams.

[EVAY]

The thing about that article, to me, was that it really never answered its own question. Who's to blame?

THE ENTIRE BLANKING TEAM IS TO BLAME.

22 turnovers. The most any one person had was 6, and after that it went down to 3 per person…it was just almost every person though.

No one played well. Yes Manu hit shots, but so did most everyone else not named Diaw or Mill or Bellinelli. And Manu's hot hand was negated somewhat by him being the one guy with almost a third of the team's turnovers all by himself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

^Somewhat agree - but the argument typically has been is he an upgrade over Neal and many debated that fact well before he did anything in a Spurs uniform. Not only regular season, but playoffs. But it's just two games in, so I digress.

Defining what the argument is doesn't mean anything in regards to people playing pollyanna.

[spurraider21]

Dallas has game-planned us the same way OKC has been doing, taking away the role players, and giving Parker/Duncan all the shots they want. The onus is on them to repeat their game 1 performances, and they'll have those shots all day long.

[BackHome]

The bench has been a huge disappointment. The starters have struggled at times but the bench have been dismal.

To be fair though in the playoffs it is your starters that you lean on the most and should be the ones who either win it or loose it or you.

[BackHome]

The thing about that article, to me, was that it really never answered its own question. Who's to blame?

THE ENTIRE BLANKING TEAM IS TO BLAME.

22 turnovers. The most any one person had was 6, and after that it went down to 3 per person…it was just almost every person though.

No one played well. Yes Manu hit shots, but so did most everyone else not named Diaw or Mill or Bellinelli. And Manu's hot hand was negated somewhat by him being the one guy with almost a third of the team's turnovers all by himself.


I though Tiago played well.

[DPG21920]

Dallas has game-planned us the same way OKC has been doing, taking away the role players, and giving Parker/Duncan all the shots they want. The onus is on them to repeat their game 1 performances, and they'll have those shots all day long.

The difference is this strategy shouldn't work as well as it does when OKC does it since they lack any defensive talent. They don't have the athletes nor the defensive IQ to switch and still close out to shooters like OKC does against SA. Spurs are just playing poorly overall and need to make some of the stated adjustments.

[Two10Whitey]

Seriously? People still freaking out about a 1-1 series? Grow a pair and chill the hell out. Once they start playing team basketball you're all gonna be on their nuts again. :lmao

[Seventyniner]

Seriously? People still freaking out about a 1-1 series? Grow a pair and chill the hell out. Once they start playing team basketball you're all gonna be on their nuts again. :lmao

You must be new around here...

[RD2191]

Spurs offense is reliant on too many players. During the 19 game win streak all sorts of players were chipping in 10-12 points here and there. So now that other teams have figured out how to disrupt that the Spurs lose because they lack the iso talent to win games. We won Game 1 because Tim went old school and even though Manu gave great effort in Game 2 it just wasn't enough. Turnovers are part of the Mavs game plan. Sure we may not have 24 again but I still expect us to have a significant amount. Tbh.

[ElNono]

Brought this up after game 1, tbh... Gino becomes the focus of the offense simply because a lot of other guys don't show up... and he's not that player anymore.

He's been playing great regardless in this series, but if Pop plans to keep going deep into the bench, some of those guys are going to have to show up, make shots and make plays.

Ultimately, I didn't think we had the focus and intensity out there in game 2. We played "hard" for about 3 mins at the end of the 2nd quarter, when we made that 10-0 run.

Even in game 1, it was only there for short spurts. Not taking anything away from Carlisle game-planning, which is excellent, but the focus/effort/fight/intensity falls entirely on the Spurs.

[Mikeanaro]

The entire team.

[RD2191]

Is there any correlation with us being a high assist team to turnovers? Unlike teams with a dominant scorer who can get their own shot the Spurs have to pass the ball ball multiple times in order to get a good shot. (Most of the time) Making the possibility of a turnover much more likely. Any thoughts from people with knowledge of the game? (I'm fairly new to basketball)

[RD2191]

Guessing it would be assist to turnover ratio?

[dallasmaverickslose]

:pop:

[Malik Hairston]

Is there any correlation with us being a high assist team to turnovers? Unlike teams with a dominant scorer who can get their own shot the Spurs have to pass the ball ball multiple times in order to get a good shot. (Most of the time) Making the possibility of a turnover much more likely. Any thoughts from people with knowledge of the game? (I'm fairly new to basketball)

Maybe, I'd have to look into it, but the Warriors were the #1 team in isolation plays this season and they're turning it over more than anybody else in the playoffs so far IIRC..

The Mavs were 6th worst in creating turnover this year, I think game 2 was more of an anomaly, tbh..if it occurs again in game 3, then it should be a concern..

[spurraider21]

The difference is this strategy shouldn't work as well as it does when OKC does it since they lack any defensive talent. They don't have the athletes nor the defensive IQ to switch and still close out to shooters like OKC does against SA. Spurs are just playing poorly overall and need to make some of the stated adjustments.
true, many of our turnovers were unforced and just dumb, sloppy plays. hopefully this is a wake up call, rather than a sign of things to come. based on what we've seen this season, its more likely to be the former

[RD2191]

Maybe, I'd have to look into it, but the Warriors were the #1 team in isolation plays this season and they're turning it over more than anybody else in the playoffs so far IIRC..

The Mavs were 6th worst in creating turnover this year, I think game 2 was more of an anomaly, tbh..if it occurs again in game 3, then it should be a concern..
Interesting. Thanks, man. Guess we'll see what happens.

[Two10Whitey]

You must be new around here...
Not really.. I guess you didn't see my finals rant last year.

[bklynspursfan]

Can't wait for the foreign legion to show up full force tomorrow

[superjames1992]

Diaw really has disappointed, tbh. He's been nothing short of useless in this series... Tbh... Hope he turns it around.

[Arcadian]

Hey, it could be worse. At least we're not dealing with a bunch of young, inexperienced kids who have no idea how to handle themselves in the playoffs. These guys are fucking seasoned veterans...Diaw and Belli will not continue to suck.

[Expert]

^Somewhat agree - but the argument typically has been is he an upgrade over Neal and many debated that fact well before he did anything in a Spurs uniform. Not only regular season, but playoffs. But it's just two games in, so I digress.
He is an upgrade over Neal. It's not really even debatable. He's at least as good a shooter, despite his slump, and his cuts to the basket and his passing are far superior to Neal. Both are horrible defenders, but I've not see Beli get schooled by a shoeless Mike Miller yet. Not saying it won't happen. Gary had two things: shooting ability and lack of memory.

[Expert]

Guessing it would be assist to turnover ratio?

Spurs led the league in assists, they are almost dead last in the playoffs in assists. You could take a 2 game sample from the RS and get poor numbers as well. Let's see what happens in the next couple games.

[Dex]

The whole team was obviously sloppy on Wednesday, but I think part of that falls on Pop and, to the Mav's credit, Rick Carlisle.

Start with the decision to cover Parker with Marion, leaving Ellis on Leonard. Not only does Marion present a well-known problem for Parker (length and athleticism, though the latter is fading), this also results in a mismatch with Leonard that is hard for the Spurs to resist.

Next, Dallas is switching everything, which is resulting in mismatches nearly every time down the floor. There is a reason this is happening. Switching everything allows Dallas to better boggle the Spurs picks, cuts, and passing. The resulting mismatches also entice the Spurs to do something that they don't do very well: play ISO basketball.

Believe it or not, Dallas is daring the Spurs to let Tony, Tim, and Manu beat them. They don't want to allow the same offense that won 62 games and swept them in the regular season to make an appearance. The sacrifice is to see if the Spurs stars can still put the team on its shoulders.

In Game 1, Parker came out hot because he was feasting on the defensive strategy. Once the Spurs went to the bench and tried to settle into their usual motion-based offense, however, everything stalled out. Fortunately, Tim and Tony found the crack in the door with enough time left in the fourth quarter to bust it open with individual plays.

In Game 2, I think Pop came out with the emphasis on moving the ball, and it backfired. The team tried to force the motion offense that has carried them through the season, which played right into the Mav's defense. The result was an offense that never looked comfortable, 24 turnovers, and a loss.

[rmt]

The whole team was obviously sloppy on Wednesday, but I think part of that falls on Pop and, to the Mav's credit, Rick Carlisle.

Start with the decision to cover Parker with Marion, leaving Ellis on Leonard. Not only does Marion present a well-known problem for Parker (length and athleticism, though the latter is fading), this also results in a mismatch with Leonard that is hard for the Spurs to resist.

Next, Dallas is switching everything, which is resulting in mismatches nearly every time down the floor. There is a reason this is happening. Switching everything allows Dallas to better boggle the Spurs picks, cuts, and passing. The resulting mismatches also entice the Spurs to do something that they don't do very well: play ISO basketball.

Believe it or not, Dallas is daring the Spurs to let Tony, Tim, and Manu beat them. They don't want to allow the same offense that won 62 games and swept them in the regular season to make an appearance. The sacrifice is to see if the Spurs stars can still put the team on its shoulders.

In Game 1, Parker came out hot because he was feasting on the defensive strategy. Once the Spurs went to the bench and tried to settle into their usual motion-based offense, however, everything stalled out. Fortunately, Tim and Tony found the crack in the door with enough time left in the fourth quarter to bust it open with individual plays.

In Game 2, I think Pop came out with the emphasis on moving the ball, and it backfired. The team tried to force the motion offense that has carried them through the season, which played right into the Mav's defense. The result was an offense that never looked comfortable, 24 turnovers, and a loss.

Yep, Carlisle is making the Spurs do what they're not comfortable with - iso-ball. The strength of "Spurs basketball" - the motion offense, cutting, passing is neutralized and Carlisle is daring the big 3 to go one on one. It's thrown the whole team out of sorts.

Ayres/Bonner don't belong in any playoff game. What's up with TD and TP playing so little? They had 2 days' rest and 2 days' after game 2. Play them heavy minutes - that's why they were rested during the rs.

[eric365]

Danny Green. He set the tone with 2 TOs to begin the game with passes he should never even try.

[therealtruth]

To be fair though in the playoffs it is your starters that you lean on the most and should be the ones who either win it or loose it or you.

Not for the Spurs when no one averages over 30 during the regular season. You don't suddenly start playing 35+ playoff minutes without an adjustment period.

[therealtruth]

Spurs led the league in assists, they are almost dead last in the playoffs in assists. You could take a 2 game sample from the RS and get poor numbers as well. Let's see what happens in the next couple games.

That style of play works when you're playing the Sixers but it's harder to implement in the playoffs. The defense is going to force you to beat them 1-on-1 before they start rotating off the shooters.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Diaw really has disappointed, tbh. He's been nothing short of useless in this series... Tbh... Hope he turns it around.

[KaiRMD1]

The lackadaisical play is to blame. I remember when we played the Thunder, they played to the fact that the Spurs make those smooth passes and managed to steal the ball. What I saw in game 2 were the most careless passes, teammates not ready to receive passes and just guys tossing the ball casually, not expecting Dallas to steal. These are all problems the Spurs can easily fix. Take away those turnovers, Spurs would have had a very comfortable lead and would have cruised to a 2-0 lead. Game 3 should be very telling

[dallasmaverickslose]

It's because we don't have Blair.........................

[EVAY]

The whole team was obviously sloppy on Wednesday, but I think part of that falls on Pop and, to the Mav's credit, Rick Carlisle.

Start with the decision to cover Parker with Marion, leaving Ellis on Leonard. Not only does Marion present a well-known problem for Parker (length and athleticism, though the latter is fading), this also results in a mismatch with Leonard that is hard for the Spurs to resist.

Next, Dallas is switching everything, which is resulting in mismatches nearly every time down the floor. There is a reason this is happening. Switching everything allows Dallas to better boggle the Spurs picks, cuts, and passing. The resulting mismatches also entice the Spurs to do something that they don't do very well: play ISO basketball.

Believe it or not, Dallas is daring the Spurs to let Tony, Tim, and Manu beat them. They don't want to allow the same offense that won 62 games and swept them in the regular season to make an appearance. The sacrifice is to see if the Spurs stars can still put the team on its shoulders.

In Game 1, Parker came out hot because he was feasting on the defensive strategy. Once the Spurs went to the bench and tried to settle into their usual motion-based offense, however, everything stalled out. Fortunately, Tim and Tony found the crack in the door with enough time left in the fourth quarter to bust it open with individual plays.

In Game 2, I think Pop came out with the emphasis on moving the ball, and it backfired. The team tried to force the motion offense that has carried them through the season, which played right into the Mav's defense. The result was an offense that never looked comfortable, 24 turnovers, and a loss.

Man this is excellent!! No joke.

This is the clearest most rational assessment of both games so far that anyone has come up with.

My question to you (quite seriously) is: what should/can the Spurs do? Do you think our big three can put the team on their shoulders for three more wins?

I would assume that everybody in the NBA is watching this series and figuring out exactly how to stop us. And I don't know what the answer is.should be, but I would honestly like to hear what you think should be done.

[moisaenz]

if the Spurs can't solve Dallas then they deserve to be put out of their misery rather than having OKC/HOU/PORT/MIA do it in grandiose fashion in the near future. better to be beat by another old dog than being put down summarily

[AFBlue]

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