PER this series...

[ElNono]

While PER isn't necessarily an ideal stat, it can give you at least a broad look at how players are producing out there... remember that a PER of 15 is always the "league average".

In this series through 6 games, for players that have played at least 48 mins (in parenthesis, their PER during the RS):

1. Tiago Splitter: 24.2 (16.5)
2. Tim Duncan: 22.1 (21.3)
3. Manu Ginobili: 21.3 (20.0)
4. Boris Diaw: 15.2 (14.1)
5. Danny Green: 13.8 (13.9)
6. Tony Parker: 13.6 (18.9)
7. Kawhi Leonard: 12.6 (19.4)
8. Patty Mills: 8.6 (18.7)
9. Marco Belinelli: 3.1 (15.0)

Without drawing too many conclusions about the numbers, it's clear that the Spurs only have 3 players playing at an "above average" level in this series (rounding up Boris number gives you basically the average), compared to 5 (or 6 if you count Tiago) in the regular season.

- Tiago has actually elevated his game greatly. He has clearly been a matchup advantage.
- It's clear that Tony will be the focus of any defensive scheming by an opposing team, and that he doesn't look in tip top shape, so his drop is up to an extent somewhat expected.
- Kawhi has been somewhat dim in this series, perhaps it has to do with Dallas having good rebounders in Dalembert and Marion. Kawhi does a lot of damage on the offensive boards, and it hasn't been much the case this series.
- Patty and Marco show a terrible drop. There's really no explanation to it other than they're massively choking. It's not like they're playing against a top bench/defense in the league.

Overall, the Spurs just simply have played subpar basketball. Carlisle is a great coach, and has a solid plan, but it cannot possibly account for such a massive drop in production.

[jeebus]

:cry what about uh huh! and Boner? :cry

[ElNono]

:cry what about uh huh! and Boner? :cry

Haven't played enough minutes. Here's the breakdown on those guys (remember the sample is just too small):

Bonner 25mins (8.6 PER, 11.2 RS PER)
Ayres 9 mins (-2.3 PER :wow :lmao, 11.1 RS PER)
Cojo 9 mins (18.6 PER, 14.7 RS PER)

[jARS mEsH sEt]

IMO to make PER more of a complete stat you should look at (PER - opponent PER), sort of like a net PER rating.

[Chinook]

I hate PER almost as much as win-shares. Thanks for the stats anyway, Nono. In the very least we can see that Beli and Mills were doing the things PER values in the regular season and are now failing to do such things. That means something, even if I think PER is a poor reflection of overall value.

[itsamanuthree]

LOL Ayers

Pretty revealing stats!

So, if, say, we have 4 players next match above the avarage, around the top 3 guys' numbers, we should, repeat, should, be winning next match?

[Johnny RIngo]

Parker choking in the post-season for the hundredth time. Not surprising. If TP played to his season numbers, this series would be over in five games.

[ElNono]

IMO to make PER more of a complete stat you should look at (PER - opponent PER), sort of like a net PER rating.

I'm not even sure such stat exists... I mean, defensive assignments change even within a single game.

At any rate, feel free to post it if you find anything different. PER is certainly far from a stat to draw major conclusions, especially when the numbers barely change. But a drop of 8+ points is pretty major, no matter how you look at it.

[itsamanuthree]

Parker choking in the post-season for the hundredth time. Not surprising. If TP played to his season numbers, this series would be over in five games.

I guess you should consider Dallas' defence having stepped up as well and focusing on him. Plus, he's purportedly injured.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I hate PER almost as much as win-shares. Thanks for the stats anyway, Nono. In the very least we can see that Beli and Mills were doing the things PER values in the regular season and are now failing to do such things. That means something, even if I think PER is a poor reflection of overall value.

It sure as hell is better than gut feelings and eyeball tests by armchair GMs, though.

[Phenomanul]

Dejuan Blair: 28.03 (13.2 mpg)

[ElNono]

I hate PER almost as much as win-shares. Thanks for the stats anyway, Nono. In the very least we can see that Beli and Mills were doing the things PER values in the regular season and are now failing to do such things. That means something, even if I think PER is a poor reflection of overall value.

As I was telling jARS, it's not the complete picture, but when you have such a massive drop on a stat calculated on actual boxscore values, then we're definitely seeing some major chokes in certain areas.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I'm not even sure such stat exists... I mean, defensive assignments change even within a single game.

At any rate, feel free to post it if you find anything different. PER is certainly far from a stat to draw major conclusions, especially when the numbers barely change. But a drop of 8+ points is pretty major, no matter how you look at it.

I've seen an opponent PER allowed stat before although I'm not exactly sure how they keep track of the fact that defensive assignments change, as you said.

[Johnny RIngo]

I guess you should consider Dallas' defence having stepped up as well and focusing on him. Plus, he's purportedly injured.

Convenient excuse. Anytime TP's playing like shit in the playoffs, the injured excuse come out. People just don't want to accept the fact that Parker's a shitty post-season performer. Always has been. Always will be.

[SpursFan86]

I hate PER almost as much as win-shares. Thanks for the stats anyway, Nono. In the very least we can see that Beli and Mills were doing the things PER values in the regular season and are now failing to do such things. That means something, even if I think PER is a poor reflection of overall value.

PER definitely has its flaws, but is there any single stat that doesn't? PER ignores defense outside of steals/blocks (which are horrible indicators of how good of a defender someone is), and tends to reward high usage/high volume players...but it's still generally a decent indicator of how someone is playing. Obviously with guys who play few minutes there's a higher chance of having inflated values (*cough*DeJuan Blair*cough*).

I think if you combine PER with prior knowledge about a player's defensive abilities, you can generally put together a pretty accurate evaluation of someone.

[itsamanuthree]

Is a 4 above-20PER-players combination a relevant stat? Or am I talking crap?

[ElNono]

For comparison, here are similar stats for Dallas in this series:

1. Dejuan Blair 28.0 (17.3)
2. Brandan Wright 21.0 (23.5)
3. Vince Carter 20.5 (15.9)
4. Monta Ellis 17.3 (16.8)
5. Samuel Dalembert 16.9 (16.8)
6. Jose Calderon 15.7 (15.2)
7. Devin Harris 14.9 (14.6)
8. Shawn Marion 14.0 (13.7)
9. Dirk Nowitzki 13.5 (23.6)
10. Jae Crowder 7.3 (11.9)

Dallas has basically 5 players playing "above average". Not surprisingly, their top 3 are bench players, and other than the massive drop on Dirk, even the players that are not playing better are at least not playing much worse.

[SpursFan86]

Is a 4 above-20PER-players combination a relevant stat? Or am I talking crap?

Depends. If you have 4 guys with above-20 PERs who actually play noticeable minutes, then that's usually a good sign. But if 3 out of the 4 guys with 20+ PERs hardly ever play, then it's pretty meaningless.

[ElNono]

I've seen an opponent PER allowed stat before although I'm not exactly sure how they keep track of the fact that defensive assignments change, as you said.

I just posted the Dallas numbers this series compared to the RS... not a perfect picture, again, but I thought interesting nonetheless.

[itsamanuthree]

Convenient excuse. Anytime TP's playing like shit in the playoffs, the injured excuse come out. People just don't want to accept the fact that Parker's a shitty post-season performer. Always has been. Always will be.

Well, we may never know if that's true or not.

I'd like how Parker reacted during last game and from what had been so far a bellow acceptable performance from him he did handle the pressure positively and delivered, despite that last turnover, the bad pass below the rim, which sorta ended his run.

[Chinook]

It sure as hell is better than gut feelings and eyeball tests by armchair GMs, though.

It's certainly better than that whole, "Player X would not make the same mistake Player Y made," thing people use with Neal and others.


As I was telling jARS, it's not the complete picture, but when you have such a massive drop on a stat calculated on actual boxscore values, then we're definitely seeing some major chokes in certain areas.

Yeah. They've had similarly horrible drops in WS/48 as well, going from hidden bench gems to no longer rotation-worthy. Crazy. Much worse than 2011 Green or anything Bonner's done in several years.

[itsamanuthree]

For comparison, here are similar stats for Dallas in this series:

1. Dejuan Blair 28.0 (17.3)
2. Brandan Wright 21.0 (23.5)
3. Vince Carter 20.5 (15.9)
4. Monta Ellis 17.3 (16.8)
5. Samuel Dalembert 16.9 (16.8)
6. Jose Calderon 15.7 (15.2)
7. Devin Harris 14.9 (14.6)
8. Shawn Marion 14.0 (13.7)
9. Dirk Nowitzki 13.5 (23.6)
10. Jae Crowder 7.3 (11.9)

Dallas has basically 5 players playing "above average". Not surprisingly, their top 3 are bench players, and other than the massive drop on Dirk, even the players that are not playing better are at least not playing much worse.

Good data, their supporting cast's been the difference maker apparently. Or rather, our lackuster supporting cast.

[itsamanuthree]

Depends. If you have 4 guys with above-20 PERs who actually play noticeable minutes, then that's usually a good sign. But if 3 out of the 4 guys with 20+ PERs hardly ever play, then it's pretty meaningless.

I see, this isn't so straightforward then

[Mugen]

Duncan has looked painfully old this series tbh. The weight loss allows fat players like Dejuan to push him further off the block. But Dallas being able to front him when Blair is in is inexcusable.

[spurraider21]

basically since game 1 i've been begging for more minutes to Green since he can adequately defend Ellis. in game 6 he was playing good on D and was knocking down shots, and he still couldn't stay on the floor late. i've lost hope for his minutes

[jeebus]

Haven't played enough minutes. Here's the breakdown on those guys (remember the sample is just too small):

Bonner 25mins (8.6 PER, 11.2 RS PER)
Ayres 9 mins (-2.3 PER :wow :lmao, 11.1 RS PER)
Cojo 9 mins (18.6 PER, 14.7 RS PER)
Well Boner sounds about right as does uh huh, but Cojo's is lol.

[pgardn]

Duncan has looked painfully old this series tbh. The weight loss allows fat players like Dejuan to push him further off the block. But Dallas being able to front him when Blair is in is inexcusable.

Seconded.

And he HAS to hit his midrange elbow jumper. Tim also needs to make a few tough shots occasionally.

[TDfan2007]

Thanks for the info, Nono. These numbers confirm what the eyeball test would tell you about how poorly Tony and our role players not named splitter have been playing. Tony and Kawhi have been huge disappointments on both ends of the floor.

[objective]

Look at all that production from the MLE!

WOW!

Now, I know the cheerleaders think marco and Ayres are hall of famers ... But wouldn't it be nice if the MLE could actually play decently against an eighth seed? Or at least not so damn terrible that they're benched in the second halves of the last two games (except for foul trouble)?

[ElNono]

Now, I know the cheerleaders think marco and Ayres are hall of famers ... But wouldn't it be nice if the MLE could actually play decently against an eighth seed? Or at least not so damn terrible that they're benched in the second halves of the last two games (except for foul trouble)?

tbf, Marco's abysmal drop is a first in his career, IIRC.... dude has been a major disappointment this postseason...

[objective]

Major Disappointment is right. This mavs would have won in six if pop put marco in the second half of game five.

I don't remember Gary Neal being being this bad as a spur in a series. As a bobcat, yes.

[ElNono]

Major Disappointment is right. This mavs would have won in six if pop put marco in the second half of game five.

I don't remember Gary Neal being being this bad as a spur in a series. As a bobcat, yes.

Sure, but there was no way to know. I mean, I'm sure some people will tell you they've seen this coming all along, but Marco putting his production from the RS would've been enough to tip this series for the Spurs a while ago.

[objective]

Not saying that Neal is better. But an awful lot of people thought marco was miles better.

And if the other players had produced like the regular season, the spurs would be the second already. Some are just having a poor series, and if the spurs were to move on I think they could get back to normal. Like Kawhi, who after he came back from injury has a PER above 22. But some guys ... They're just guys.

[ElNono]

Not saying that Neal is better. But an awful lot of people thought marco was miles better.

And if the other players had produced like the regular season, the spurs would be the second already. Some are just having a poor series, and if the spurs were to move on I think they could get back to normal. Like Kawhi, who after he came back from injury has a PER above 22. But some guys ... They're just guys.

I get what you're saying. If anything, you could doubt Mills keeping up his scorching hot game, but Marco has already been to this dance for a couple of other teams, and he's never been this horrible. And horrible is being kind...

[DarrinS]

I'm pretty sure Neal would have trouble in this series, too. Mavs have made a real effort to limit our role players. That said, Beli has been pretty dam bad in this series. He's due for a stronger showing.

[pgardn]

Not saying that Neal is better. But an awful lot of people thought marco was miles better.

And if the other players had produced like the regular season, the spurs would be the second already. Some are just having a poor series, and if the spurs were to move on I think they could get back to normal. Like Kawhi, who after he came back from injury has a PER above 22. But some guys ... They're just guys.

I think Marco was a significant upgrade. But not in the playoffs so far.

I will withhold judgement until we (hopefully) play Portland. He played very well in Chicago's playoffs last year imo. He was forced to make plays in that situation.

[pgardn]

If all of what we have seen so far stays the same:

All we need is a significant input from Boris including his great interior passing, some punish with huge butt backdown buckets, and a couple of 3s and we have game 7.

Boris, please read. Oh, push on Dirk some, may him take his mouth guard out to complain.

[Chinook]

Marco needs the ball in his hands more to be effective offensively. He's a fine spot-up shooter and cutter, but he was good in that Heat series last year because he was the de facto point guard for the Bulls. Nono and I talked about this in another thread. Beli's main advantage over Green is that he is a more dynamic offensive player. But if he's reduced to a shooter, he's just Green with no defense. Iso/chucking Beli is going to do better than system Beli if the Mavs are keen on shutting down the three.

As far as Neal goes, he pretty much plays the way Beli needs to. He hogs the ball on offense and is willing to sacrifice his body on defense. He shoots even when he doesn't have a great look. That made him a worse system player, but it also makes him a better type of player for this series. I do think the Neal/Beli debate is close enough to call that part of the off-season a mistake. But if the Spurs move on, Marco will get another chance. If he wants to make the most of it, he needs to go back to last playoffs instead of trying to fit into the system.

[objective]

True, Neal was selfish enough to vomit up shots even if the defense was aimed at preventing perimeter looks.

[Mugen]

Splitter is the only one having a good series tbh. Manu was great Games 1-5 but equally as terrible in Game 6.

It'll be crazy if the Spurs still win the series but the Mavs have been the better team so far in almost every facet of the game.

[siraulo23]

:lol errors

ill take blair any day

[Hoops Czar]

You don't need to show PER to realize how far Patty and Marco have fallen. All those who had a brown out when the Spurs signed Beli are now just realizing how marginal that signing really was.

[HI-FI]

Parker choking in the post-season for the hundredth time. Not surprising. If TP played to his season numbers, this series would be over in five games.
there will be a new excuse, and then another for next year. this year it's the kid and ankle IIRC. the real reason is the Peter Principle.

[wildchild]

462698463830892544

462698821428842497

http://i.imgur.com/KWZ2PEH.png

[objective]

Hmmm. Sounds like Kawhi needs his minutes capped at 35, Marco needs his minutes too after all.

[Chinook]

True, Neal was selfish enough to vomit up shots even if the defense was aimed at preventing perimeter looks.

Yeah. He'd also counter by taking long twos off one dribble and drive on secondary penetration. His offense was underrated.

[HI-FI]

Not saying that Neal is better. But an awful lot of people thought marco was miles better.

And if the other players had produced like the regular season, the spurs would be the second already. Some are just having a poor series, and if the spurs were to move on I think they could get back to normal. Like Kawhi, who after he came back from injury has a PER above 22. But some guys ... They're just guys.
i thought Marco was at worse a lateral move, but still consider him a better overall player than Neal.

but Neal did have that ability to say "fuck it" and shoot without fear. I definitely miss that. I ain't giving up on Marco yet, but I agree that I think Neal would've done better in this series.

[superjames1992]

Parker's PER :lol

Kawhi has been disappointing, too.

At least our TOSBs Manu and Timmy are stepping it up, per par. :tu

[ElNono]

Like I said earlier, there was no way to know Marco would suck this bad. As a matter of fact, I don't even remember RMJ dropping so low in the playoffs. Heck, you could even say Hedo had his moments compared to this.

[superjames1992]

Like I said earlier, there was no way to know Marco would suck this bad. As a matter of fact, I don't even remember RMJ dropping so low in the playoffs. Heck, you could even say Hedo had his moments compared to this.
Tbh, it's still the 1st round. It's still possible he could emerge from his slump and start hitting shots in later rounds (not that I'm counting on it). The NBA Playoffs are more like a marathon than a sprint.

[ElNono]

Tbh, it's still the 1st round. It's still possible he could emerge from his slump and start hitting shots in later rounds (not that I'm counting on it). The NBA Playoffs are more like a marathon than a sprint.

It's clear we need him playing a whole lot better, and a lot of the other guys to pick up their games too. Hope we don't have to wait until next season though, tbh...

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Parker's PER :lol

Kawhi has been disappointing, too.

At least our TOSBs Manu and Timmy are stepping it up, per par. :tu

Failnobili also shitting the bed in critical game 6s, per par :tu

Failnobili giveth and failnobili taketh away causing several times more grief than any transient joy he may have provided prior. At least Friday's game 6 wasn't for a ring. If it was, Manu would've had 10 turnovers instead of 3.

[ElNono]

Failnobili also shitting the bed in critical game 6s, per par :tu

Failnobili giveth and failnobili taketh away causing several times more grief than any transient joy he may have provided prior. At least Friday's game 6 wasn't for a ring. If it was, Manu would've had 10 turnovers instead of 3.

:lol come on jARS, Manu has been great this series. Heck, if he doesn't carry us for about 3-4 games, we would be already done...

I know you hate him with a passion, but this is just as silly as singling out Tony. Tony hasn't looked right all season long, and he's still fought hard out there, plus you know the other team would eventually slow him a bit.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

:lol come on jARS, Manu has been great this series. Heck, if he doesn't carry us for about 3-4 games, we would be already done...

I know you hate him with a passion, but this is just as silly as singling out Tony. Tony hasn't looked right all season long, and he's still fought hard out there, plus you know the other team would eventually slow him a bit.

It's very frustrating when Manu's struggles inconveniently coincide with our role players having phenomenal games. Green going 7-7 from the field probably won't happen tomorrow. 8 shot attempts isn't that much but for fuck's sake if Manu makes one more shot from the field we probably acquire the necessary boost to win game 6.

Tony's 10-23 isn't great but it's acceptable. It's not 12.5%.

Manu's best game in the series, at least shooting-wise (game 2), resulted in a loss because nobody else stepped up. Manu's worst game in the series (game 6) resulted in a loss in spite of everyone else stepping up, except maybe Marco who's total shit but I don't think anyone's arguing against that and he played only 5 minutes anyway.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Also ElNono when these playoffs are over, remind me to PM you your consolation prize for winning the bet. I'm pretty sure it'll blow your mind :lol

[ElNono]

It's very frustrating when Manu's struggles inconveniently coincide with our role players having phenomenal games. Green going 7-7 from the field probably won't happen tomorrow. 8 shot attempts isn't that much but for fuck's sake if Manu makes one more shot from the field we probably acquire the necessary boost to win game 6.

Tony's 10-23 isn't great but it's acceptable. It's not 12.5%.

Manu's best game in the series, at least shooting-wise (game 2), resulted in a loss because nobody else stepped up. Manu's worst game in the series (game 6) resulted in a loss in spite of everyone else stepping up, except maybe Marco who's total shit but I don't think anyone's arguing against that and he played only 5 minutes anyway.

I'll take 4 games of solid production from Gino at this stage of his career anyday, it's a rare sight, tbh... heck, I'm glad he could still turn it up a notch, because we would be toast right now. We at least have a shot to move on largely thanks to him and Tiago.


Also ElNono when these playoffs are over, remind me to PM you your consolation prize for winning the bet. I'm pretty sure it'll blow your mind :lol

You're wearing the prize, I'm all done with that :lol That was the bet. But go ahead and surprise me if you want.

[baseline bum]

Sure, but there was no way to know. I mean, I'm sure some people will tell you they've seen this coming all along, but Marco putting his production from the RS would've been enough to tip this series for the Spurs a while ago.


That Dude Belli is a great pickup... I was watching the Heat-Bulls series, and they were talking how he has improved his defensive game with Thibs, which always been his major drawback...

:lol

[ElNono]

:lol

:lol but that's exactly what I was saying earlier... anybody walking in here saying they knew Beli would suck this bad, is a liar. The dude has played from "normal" to "good" in his previous playoffs. This whole crapping the bed this badly is new.

I loved the pickup and I loved his RS... he just crashed the ferrari badly right now.

[Boomersgold]

You don't need to show PER to realize how far Patty and Marco have fallen. All those who had a brown out when the Spurs signed Beli are now just realizing how marginal that signing really was.
To be fair, Patty only underperformed in the first 3 games of the series. In the last three games, he's played exactly how we expected him to play. 7-10 points in 15-16 minutes of pt.

[99 Problems]

To be fair, Patty only underperformed in the first 3 games of the series. In the last three games, he's played exactly how we expected him to play. 7-10 points in 15-16 minutes of pt.


yep and limit t/o 's, that's all baby faced Pop wants.

[spurs10]

Rotations tomorrow will be interesting. Doubt Pop will bench Beli all together. More likely he'll try to get him going, as the Mavs won't be game planning for him. I think we are do for a strong game tomorrow and don't think Pop will stick with him if he doesn't show something mighty quick. I didn't see this coming and expected our bench to tear them up.
:flag:

[heyheymymy]

1. Dejuan Blair 28.0 (17.3)

^ he is only doing this to spite the spurs what a bum, why didn't you hustle then but are willing to now?

[therealtruth]

:lol but that's exactly what I was saying earlier... anybody walking in here saying they knew Beli would suck this bad, is a liar. The dude has played from "normal" to "good" in his previous playoffs. This whole crapping the bed this badly is new.

I loved the pickup and I loved his RS... he just crashed the ferrari badly right now.

The Spurs softness rubbed off on him too much.

[Ice009]

This is looking similar to what happened in 2008. Bring back the same team with no upgrades and get manhandled in the playoffs. The Spurs struggled badly in the 2008 playoffs. Going 7 against New Orleans and then getting knocked out by the Lakers. I don't know why they keep thinking that they can come back with pretty much the same team when other teams are out there reloading.

I wanted the Spurs to try and reload back then, and I think they should have also tried harder to do so this off-season as well.

[BillMc]

1. Dejuan Blair 28.0 (17.3)

^ he is only doing this to spite the spurs what a bum, why didn't you hustle then but are willing to now?

Blair lives for revenge. Remember his rookie season when he wanted to prove everyone wrong for passing on him? He was great...for a while. Now, he's motivated against us. If the Mavs were to win, I have little doubt he'd be back to being near useless against Portland.

But we'll never know. Because the Spurs end Blair's season tonight.:hat

[RD2191]

nono putting in work.

[ElNono]

:lol yeah, there's a lot of other great series for fans of Tony to bring up, but this one isn't one of them, tbh, despite his great play in Game 7... especially when you consider he was matched up against guys like Devin Harris and Jose Calderon...

IIRC, this was actually his career-low in PER for a playoff series at the time...

I actually think he had a better series, statistically, against the Blazers and even OKC...

[Johnny RIngo]

Nono going in for the kill. Unfortunately, there's a lot of low IQ posters on this site(SASdynasty, greatyacht) that don't actually watch the games and look at nothing but selective box score data like ppg in order to push their agendas

[ElNono]

Nono going in for the kill. Unfortunately, there's a lot of low IQ posters on this site(SASdynasty, greatyacht) that don't actually watch the games and look at nothing but selective box score data like ppg in order to push their agendas

No "kill" here... one series is hardly a barometer on a 13 season career and many playoff series... this one particularly wouldn't make a great example...

[Brazil]

Parker haters on full meltdown cauz dude played 10 ok games and Spurs are winning... :lmao really ?

priceless

worst than a Spurs loss stretch ? A Spurs win stretch with Parker playing well

pathetic is the only word coming to my mind... even for historical haters like nono tbh

[ElNono]

Parker haters on full meltdown cauz dude played 10 ok games and Spurs are winning... :lmao really ?

priceless

worst than a Spurs loss stretch ? A Spurs win stretch with Parker playing well

pathetic is the only word coming to my mind... even for historical haters like nono tbh

:lol this is a thread from last year, and I didn't bump it, tbh... not to mention that I made all sorts of excuses for Tony ITT... such a hater... :rolleyes

[K...]

Wow, another stat without context supposedly showing Parker is trash.

Nope, last year nearly everyone other than Parker played out of their minds. If guys like mills could sustain their elite play I'd be all on the bench Parker train. But Parker is good and mills/cojo are inconsistent!

Playing poorly because the defense focuses on you or because you're injured isn't really meaningful. That's why stats without context will never be useful.

[ElNono]

Wow, another stat without context supposedly showing Parker is trash.

Nope, last year nearly everyone other than Parker played out of their minds. If guys like mills could sustain their elite play I'd be all on the bench Parker train. But Parker is good and mills/cojo are inconsistent!

Playing poorly because the defense focuses on you or because you're injured isn't really meaningful. That's why stats without context will never be useful.

:lol Nobody singled out Tony when this thread was discussed last year. Stats do have context, it's was after the first six games of the playoffs and are contrasted against the same player's production during the regular season.

Good discussion came out of it, I thought, with no bashing in general. Sorry you missed out.

[Johnny RIngo]

Wow, another stat without context supposedly showing Parker is trash.

Nope, last year nearly everyone other than Parker played out of their minds. If guys like mills could sustain their elite play I'd be all on the bench Parker train. But Parker is good and mills/cojo are inconsistent!

Playing poorly because the defense focuses on you or because you're injured isn't really meaningful. That's why stats without context will never be useful.

No need to get butthurt. This is an old thread from last May that was bumped in response to GreatYacht and SASdynasty's revisionist takes about Parker being our best player in the Dallas series. Anyone that watched the series would tell you Manu and Tiago were by far the best Spurs.

[Brazil]

:lol this is a thread from last year, and I didn't bump it, tbh... not to mention that I made all sorts of excuses for Tony ITT... such a hater... :rolleyes

I should have posted that on the 9 pages of parker haters diharrea.... My bad... You spend your time doing subtles not excuses :rolleyes ... You are probably fooling a bunch of noobs but not an old chap like me tbh


Let us proceed

[ElNono]

I should have posted that on the 9 pages of parker haters diharrea.... My bad... You spend your time doing subtles not excuses :rolleyes ... You are probably fooling a bunch of noobs but not an old chap like me tbh

Let us proceed

:lol you even said Tony was playing like dogshit this season, but I'm the hater... come on son...

[Brazil]

:lol you even said Tony was playing like dogshit this season, but I'm the hater... come on son...

:lol of course Parker played like dog shit this season, I said it numerous times... does not make me an hater or a subtle apologist or revisionist historian

I'm nevertheless quite happy to see him playing better last 10 games or so which is not the case of everybody :rolleyes

[ElNono]

:lol of course Parker played like dog shit this season, I said it numerous times... does not make me an hater or a subtle apologist or revisionist historian

I'm nevertheless quite happy to see him playing better last 10 games or so which is not the case of everybody :rolleyes

:lol chill, I'm not accusing you of anything. There's nothing revisionist about this thread, it was written in between Game 6 and Game 7 of this series. If anything, it was bumped (not by me), to call out some revisionist history going on...

I've also said I'm happy Tony has his speed back, great to see tbh... hopefully all the coasting he did during the regular season pays off in the playoffs...

[SASdynasty!]

My favorite part of this thread is how Parker's G7 performance shut it down. Literally 0 posts after Parker bailed us out in G7. :rollin

[ElNono]

My favorite part of this thread is how Parker's G7 performance shut it down. Literally 0 posts after Parker bailed us out in G7. :rollin

this wasn't a Parker thread, it was a Spurs vs Dallas series thread. Game 7 shut it down because it was the end of that series...

and lol @ "bailed out" :lol

[RD2191]

My favorite part of this thread is how Parker's G7 performance shut it down. Literally 0 posts after Parker bailed us out in G7. :rollin
You are a faggot poster.

[Malik Hairston]

this wasn't a Parker thread, it was a Spurs vs Dallas series thread. Game 7 shut it down because it was the end of that series...



:lmao this man isn't the sharpest, tbh..

[SASdynasty!]

Parker choking in the post-season for the hundredth time. Not surprising. If TP played to his season numbers, this series would be over in five games.


I guess you should consider Dallas' defence having stepped up as well and focusing on him. Plus, he's purportedly injured.


Convenient excuse. Anytime TP's playing like shit in the playoffs, the injured excuse come out. People just don't want to accept the fact that Parker's a shitty post-season performer. Always has been. Always will be.


Well, we may never know if that's true or not.

I'd like how Parker reacted during last game and from what had been so far a bellow acceptable performance from him he did handle the pressure positively and delivered, despite that last turnover, the bad pass below the rim, which sorta ended his run.


Thanks for the info, Nono. These numbers confirm what the eyeball test would tell you about how poorly Tony and our role players not named splitter have been playing. Tony and Kawhi have been huge disappointments on both ends of the floor.


there will be a new excuse, and then another for next year. this year it's the kid and ankle IIRC. the real reason is the Peter Principle.


Parker's PER :lol

Kawhi has been disappointing, too.

At least our TOSBs Manu and Timmy are stepping it up, per par. :tu


:lol come on jARS, Manu has been great this series. Heck, if he doesn't carry us for about 3-4 games, we would be already done...

I know you hate him with a passion, but this is just as silly as singling out Tony. Tony hasn't looked right all season long, and he's still fought hard out there, plus you know the other team would eventually slow him a bit.


It's very frustrating when Manu's struggles inconveniently coincide with our role players having phenomenal games. Green going 7-7 from the field probably won't happen tomorrow. 8 shot attempts isn't that much but for fuck's sake if Manu makes one more shot from the field we probably acquire the necessary boost to win game 6.

Tony's 10-23 isn't great but it's acceptable. It's not 12.5%.

Manu's best game in the series, at least shooting-wise (game 2), resulted in a loss because nobody else stepped up. Manu's worst game in the series (game 6) resulted in a loss in spite of everyone else stepping up, except maybe Marco who's total shit but I don't think anyone's arguing against that and he played only 5 minutes anyway.


this wasn't a Parker thread, it was a Spurs vs Dallas series thread. Game 7 shut it down because it was the end of that series...

and lol @ "bailed out" :lol
it turned into one pretty quick.

[ElNono]

it turned into one pretty quick.

why do you think that might've happened? was it because he was having a great series?...

I actually didn't think it turned into a Parker thread... plenty of comments about Kawhi's crappy series also, along with Beli sucking...