First Round MVP Goes To...

[Robz4000]

My boy Tiago "Golden God" Splitter. Manu was up there too, but the Spurs lose this series in 4 or 5 without 'ole softie. Hopefully he keeps it up in the next round.

Props my dude, you earned that contract :toast

[Splits]

Manu despite giving away game 6 again

[testies]

Tiago definately.. Ginobili cost us a game, Tiago didn't

[ElNono]

http://media.nola.com/living/travel_impact/photo/marco-belinelli-flowersjpg-0d585c008f1ed56c.jpg

[Robz4000]

http://media.nola.com/living/travel_impact/photo/marco-belinelli-flowersjpg-0d585c008f1ed56c.jpg

When does the Ferrari get back from the shop tbh? He was greatly missed in this series...

[tholdren]

manu easy. splitter played great, but was still outplayed by blair. don't give me the d on dirk either, nowitski cannot carry this team.


patty's on ball d great, will need minutes on lillard

[siraulo23]

manu or splitter

but manu takes it imo, he had one bad game the entire series, he hasnt played this well in a while

[HI-FI]

http://media.nola.com/living/travel_impact/photo/marco-belinelli-flowersjpg-0d585c008f1ed56c.jpg
:rollin
sad thing is you probably represent him as well.

[Mugen]

Splitter. He was great in crucial games.

Manu has a strong case but if he was simply bad in Game 6 instead of terrible, then the Spurs would have closed this series a game earlier tbh.

[100%duncan]

Toss up between the Brazilian or the Argentinian

[testies]

manu easy. splitter played great, but was still outplayed by blair. don't give me the d on dirk either, nowitski cannot carry this team.




:lol

what a shower of shit

[ElNono]

:rollin
sad thing is you probably represent him as well.

:lol I don't tbh... didn't have to make a thread about Marco's "so-so" series...

[tholdren]

:lol

what a shower of shit
please dispute

[DAF86]

If it would have ended on game 6 it would have been Tiago. Now it's Manu.

[tholdren]

Splitter. He was great in crucial games.

Manu has a strong case but if he was simply bad in Game 6 instead of terrible, then the Spurs would have closed this series a game earlier tbh.
splitter did what game 7?

[BackHome]

Either way glad both are Spurs...:)

[spurraider21]

easily Splitter. splitter and manu were 1 and 2, Baam's worst nightmare tbh

[heyheymymy]

manu was the most consistent with game 6 being the only drop in production, and im so glad to see him play like this its not even funny

[Mugen]

splitter did what game 7?

He wasn't really needed tbh. I mean he didn't cost the Spurs a game like Manu did with Game 6.....

At the end of the day, I don't really care since this is a made up award tbh :lol

[heyheymymy]

hon mention to splitter for his huge play but manu was still prob the more consistent mvp

[ChumpDumper]

splitter did what game 7?Made Dallas go small.

[tholdren]

Made Dallas go small.
as opposed to....and that's not even true dallas played their best 5 regardless

[Horry Hipcheck]

Despite Game 6, I still vote Manu. Splitter was great, especially in that huge Game 5 win, but imo he was mostly doing what he was supposed to be doing all along. Manu's been pushed further and further into his sixth man role, something he failed miserably to fill last season. With Parker vanishing in the second half of pretty much every game this series, Ginobili stepped up, made some shots, and basically ran the offense in TP's absence. If Ginobili doesn't step up in the second half of these games, the Spurs would have been toast in 5.

[ChumpDumper]

as opposed to....Their regular rotation
and that's not even true dallas played their best 5 regardlessThey went small.

How can you even attempt to refute this?

[dallasmaverickslose]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/spurs/imgs/131010_ayres_roster.jpg

[mclinejr]

Tiago was crucial in this series.

[Mugen]

After this picture, I am willing to change my vote

http://i.imgur.com/xjRdswQ.png

[heyheymymy]

we weren't really getting complete games from manu like this all playoffs long in 2013, now we got a string of games like we were dying to see from him last summer all in one series in the first round of the 2014 playoffs.

[Malik Hairston]

Ginobili or Splitter, nobody else is close, tbh..

[T Park]

as opposed to....and that's not even true dallas played their best 5 regardless

Their regular rotation was playing three point guards at the same time?

[doobs]

Duncan.

[gilmor]

Manu and Splitter easily.. I hope Manu get Finals MVP... so u guys can stop bashing Parker

[AFBlue]

Do they really give those out? MVPs are Finals or bust. I don't give a shot how any one player plays leading up to the only series that matters.

[Ginobili3]

Mah niggas Manu and Tiago http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.2336860.1299773338!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.JPG

[hater]

MvpTiago
Mvparker

then Manu, TD, and the rest

[Johnny RIngo]

Co-MVPs for Manu and Splitter

[Johnny RIngo]

MvpTiago
Mvparker

then Manu, TD, and the rest

OP said MVP of the series...not MVP of one game.

[Sybok]

Blair

[CitizenDwayne]

Rick Carlisle

[Diego20]

Co-MVPs for Manu and Splitter

This.

[Sean Cagney]

If it would have ended on game 6 it would have been Tiago. Now it's Manu.

THIS about sums it up. Tiago was huge in game 6 and a few before that but Manu was pretty consistent this series. Game 7 Manu really showed up along with Tony. Tim was just solid as usual but he didn't take many shots.
Co-MVPs for Manu and Splitter

I can see that.

[Robz4000]

Do they really give those out? MVPs are Finals or bust. I don't give a shot how any one player plays leading up to the only series that matters.

For this series there's an exception. Without the elite play of a few certain players, the Spurs would've been knocked out in record-setting embarrassing fashion.

[spursparker9]

http://media.giphy.com/media/1guRIRRbjjXnGd3hore/giphy.gif

[houston spurs fan]

Manu, no question.

[Baam]

Yeah the only serious answer is Manu, Splitter cockgobblers with the overreaction per par...

[Kabals]

Splitter was great but it's hard to see him as the mvp when he only scores on easy assisted layup and free throws (is it me or he is finally getting a lot of respect from ref on the offensive end ?), his rebounding was great, he got a tons of key offensive rebound but again, it's easier to do that when you have a guard on you after a pnr.

[Aztecfan03]

When does the Ferrari get back from the shop tbh? He was greatly missed in this series...

Yeah, the Yugo that was there as a temporary replacement just wasn't working.

[Texas_Ranger]

Manu

[spurraider21]

Yeah the only serious answer is Manu, Splitter cockgobblers with the overreaction per par...
how did you like his defense on Dirk throughout 7 games?

[Baam]

how did you like his defense on Dirk throughout 7 games?

I liked when Calderon the midget defended him in the low post tbh. Dirk didn't have a great series, it's not like Curry who was torching everyone but Green last year but feel free to whiteknight the player who lost us the Finals if that makes you happy.

[spurraider21]

I liked when Calderon the midget defended him in the low post tbh. Dirk didn't have a great series, it's not like Curry who was torching everyone but Green last year but feel free to whiteknight the player who lost us the Finals if that makes you happy.
why can't you answer my very simple question?

[testies]

why can't you answer my very simple question?

he has an agenda, forget it.. Dirk is an easy cover, Curry last year couldn't exploit Splitter switching because Curry sucks and is a bad shooter, Zbo and Gasol last year were irrelevant because they are overrated big men who shouldn't be in WCF, not becasue of Splitter..

etc

etc

etc
Splitter can't never win

[hater]

OP said MVP of the series...not MVP of one game.

IMO Parker was the biggest matchup nightmare for Mavs thus co-MVP with Splitter who played out of his mind, he pretty much played a perfect series according to his role. :tu

Manu was great too btw. But MVP goes to Splitter + MVParker

[Kidd K]

Tiago Splitter or Timmy because I also value defense as well as offense. Tiago averaged 12/10 and 3 APG on 61% FG%/79% FT% through first 6 games and contained Dirk well while leading us in rebounding for the first time ever and placing 3rd in assists after Tony and Manu. :) Timmy led us in scoring for the series and shot 55% FG% too. Also 2nd in rebounding and had more blocks than rest of team combined. I would say they were the best and most consistent all series. They're the MVPs for us. Extra props to Splitter for finally sacking up and realizing he's a seven footer who can actually dominate games.

And I'm sorry, but people are saying Manu? Why? 42% FG% for the series and led us in turnovers and 2nd in fouls per minute for players who played 15+ minutes per game. This is what happens when you have extremely shitty games. Thanks for the good ones, now stop negating them with horrendous performances. If only he could re-learn how to stop shitting himself when things don't go well for him in the first half, we'd be looking great right now.

[Brazil]

Tiago Splitter or Timmy because I also value defense as well as offense. Tiago averaged 12/10 and 3 APG on 61% FG%/79% FT% through first 6 games and contained Dirk well while leading us in rebounding for the first time ever and placing 3rd in assists after Tony and Manu. :) Timmy led us in scoring for the series and shot 55% FG% too. Also 2nd in rebounding and had more blocks than rest of team combined. I would say they were the best and most consistent all series. They're the MVPs for us. Extra props to Splitter for finally sacking up and realizing he's a seven footer who can actually dominate games.

And I'm sorry, but people are saying Manu? Why? 42% FG% for the series and led us in turnovers and 2nd in fouls per minute for players who played 15+ minutes per game. This is what happens when you have extremely shitty games. Thanks for the good ones, now stop negating them with horrendous performances. If only he could re-learn how to stop shitting himself when things don't go well for him in the first half, we'd be looking great right now.

Parker is the leading scorer of that serie with 20 ppg not Duncan: he had .58 shooting not .55

Parker shot .47 which is below his season average but to be fair he took inumerous last seconds shots.

Manu had a great serie all things considered, he played way above expectations while Parker played inconsistently and had pretty bad first games but no way he was not bothered by something. Difference is huge in terms of speed and energy between first games and game 7 for instance.

Based on exceeding expectations I'd say 1. Tiago, 2. Manu

[Mal]

clearly Splitter. Outstanding defense, outstanding pick and rolls during game 4 and 5.

[jag]

1a. Manu
1b. Splitter

[urunobili]

http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1687745-canobili-una-jugada-genial-para-dejar

[ohmwrecker]

TP won game 7. The rest of the games don't matter. lol 1st round mvp.

[superjames1992]

After game 6, I would have said Tiago, but now I'd say Manu.

Parker and Duncan were also great in game 7.

[davidbowie]

Master splitter!!!!!!

[chaco]

Manu.

[Jimcs50]

South America

[Chinook]

Advanced stats say Splitter. He has a 143 ORtg :wow and 107 DRtg, which were first and second on the team, respectively. That 36 was by far the highest NetRtg on the team. Surprisingly (at least to most people), Green was second with a NetRtg of 23. Bonner of all people was third with a 22. Diaw and Duncan each had 18, and Ginobili had 8 (including a team-low 105 DRtg, although I don't like that metric for smalls). Everyone else was negative. Splitter also led in WS/48 (and regular win-shares). While I dislike WS/48 as a stat generally, I think Splitter dominating so thoroughly in that category (.264 compared to Duncan's second-place total of .198) still means something.

[Johnny RIngo]

And I'm sorry, but people are saying Manu? Why? 42% FG% for the series and led us in turnovers and 2nd in fouls per minute for players who played 15+ minutes per game. This is what happens when you have extremely shitty games. Thanks for the good ones, now stop negating them with horrendous performances. If only he could re-learn how to stop shitting himself when things don't go well for him in the first half, we'd be looking great right now.

Awful analysis. Ginobili only had one more turnover than Parker throughout the series(same amount of assists too). Considering the fact that Manu upped his apg from reg season to post-season(4.3 to 4.7) it makes sense that he'd turn it over a little more too. Parker saw a considerable drop in his production though(5.7 apg in reg season to 4.7 apg in post-season) which is unacceptable considering he's the youngest of the big three and our best playmaker.

And why are you using FG% in regards to Ginobili? Manu's an excellent three-point shooter in addition to being one of the best in the league in regards to drawing fouls. Manu attempted 47 free throws in this series - the next highest was Dirk and Monta both at 31. FG% doesn't take this into account. In this case, TS%(true shooting percentage) is more useful. Manu's TS percentage against the Mavs was 61.6% which is excellent. His TS% in the regular season was 59% - Manu basically upped his volume(12.3 ppg to 17.7 ppg) in addition to his efficiency. Great production from a 36 year old. Compare that to Parker who's TS% is a very mediocre 51.5% against Dallas. A considerable drop from his regular season percentages(55%).

[Brazil]

Awful analysis. Ginobili only had one more turnover than Parker throughout the series(same amount of assists too). Considering the fact that Manu upped his apg from reg season to post-season(4.3 to 4.7) it makes sense that he'd turn it over a little more too. Parker saw a considerable drop in his production though(5.7 apg in reg season to 4.7 apg in post-season) which is unacceptable considering he's the youngest of the big three and our best playmaker.

And why are you using FG% in regards to Ginobili? Manu's an excellent three-point shooter in addition to being one of the best in the league in regards to drawing fouls. Manu attempted 47 free throws in this series - the next highest was Dirk and Monta both at 31. FG% doesn't take this into account. In this case, TS%(true shooting percentage) is more useful. Manu's TS percentage against the Mavs was 61.6 which is excellent. His TS% in the regular season was 59% - Manu basically upped his volume(12.3 ppg to 17.7 ppg) in addition to his efficiency. Fantastic production from a 36 year old. Compare that to Parker who's TS% is a very mediocre 51.5% against Dallas. A considerable drop from his regular season percentages(55%).

dude we got it... you don't like Parker

[Johnny RIngo]

dude we got it... you don't like Parker

Parker had an amazing game 7. If he could play like that more often, he wouldn't receive so much criticism. Hell, just playing to his season numbers would be nice(something TP has rarely done in his playoff career)

[will_spurs]

Tiago by a mile. He was the difference maker in many games and played way above expectations.

[BillMc]

Spurs MVP: Manu

Mavs MVP: Rick Carlisle

[Mugen]

dude we got it... you don't like Parker

:lol

[EVAY]

Parker had an amazing game 7. If he could play like that more often, he wouldn't receive so much criticism. Hell, just playing to his season numbers would be nice(something TP has rarely done in his playoff career)

If he could play like that very often he would be the greatest pg in the history of the game, which he is not and never will be. He is not as gifted athletically as some guys, but he does the best he can with what he has…that is what Pop has taught him. He is the product of Pop development.

[mercos]

Splitter and Manu are co-MVPs in my book. Splitter played great defense on Dirk, rebounded well, and even scored at a pretty good clip. However, Manu carried the team offensively when they looked dead in the water after the first two games. The two man game between Manu and Splitter won the series. Without both of them, Spurs probably go down in 5.

[Mr Fundamental]

Manu.

He really wants to erase the bad memories of last year's playoffs.

[will_spurs]

Come on, Tiago had exactly 0 double-doubles entering this series, and had 3 double-doubles in a row against the Mavs.

[superjames1992]

And I'm sorry, but people are saying Manu? Why? 42% FG% for the series and led us in turnovers and 2nd in fouls per minute for players who played 15+ minutes per game. This is what happens when you have extremely shitty games. Thanks for the good ones, now stop negating them with horrendous performances. If only he could re-learn how to stop shitting himself when things don't go well for him in the first half, we'd be looking great right now.
Manu shot 45% for the series and 38% from three. Stop making stuff up. :lol

[servalli]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2494241/Leia_Tiago.JPG

[Kidd K]

Manu shot 45% for the series and 38% from three. Stop making stuff up. :lol

Stats were through game 6 and didn't include the irrelevant game 7 stats (same way I didn't include Splitter's game 7 stats). Half his points in game 7 were scored after we were up over 20 and there was just 15 minutes or less left in the game. Excuse me for not counting irrelevant stats during irrelevant minutes of a game we were winning by 30 since our whole team was shooting 70% for nearly the entire first half and was practically over already.

[smaka]

To me, it has to be Splitter for that awesome D.

[Kidd K]

Awful analysis. Ginobili only had one more turnover than Parker throughout the series(same amount of assists too). Considering the fact that Manu upped his apg from reg season to post-season(4.3 to 4.7) it makes sense that he'd turn it over a little more too. Parker saw a considerable drop in his production though(5.7 apg in reg season to 4.7 apg in post-season) which is unacceptable considering he's the youngest of the big three and our best playmaker.

And why are you using FG% in regards to Ginobili? Manu's an excellent three-point shooter in addition to being one of the best in the league in regards to drawing fouls. Manu attempted 47 free throws in this series - the next highest was Dirk and Monta both at 31. FG% doesn't take this into account. In this case, TS%(true shooting percentage) is more useful. Manu's TS percentage against the Mavs was 61.6% which is excellent. His TS% in the regular season was 59% - Manu basically upped his volume(12.3 ppg to 17.7 ppg) in addition to his efficiency. Great production from a 36 year old. Compare that to Parker who's TS% is a very mediocre 51.5% against Dallas. A considerable drop from his regular season percentages(55%).

Parker had more assists and Manu, not the same, and Manu had more turnovers despite handling the ball less and playing 40 less minutes. So his turnover rate was even higher than it first appears to have been. Of course, I didn't argue Parker was an MVP of the series so I'm not sure why you're arguing against him so much here. You should be arguing Manu vs the people I actually said were MVP candidates: Duncan and Splitter.

Season averages don't matter here. Pretty sure this is an MVP thread, not a most improved player thread. Why should an unreliable, shaky, up and down player throughout a season get more credit than a stable producer like Timmy just because he temporarily discovered he still had game a few times during the same series and played above his season averages? Timmy had a better series, he does not and should not get penalized for also being more reliable during the season too. :lol

[ElNono]

As I posted on my PER thread, Timmy did his thing... he definitely looked old for stretches, but he certainly put up some stealthy solid production that had a good impact on the stat sheet throughout the series.

Thiago, Tim and Manu are certainly the guys that brought it more consistently, IMO, and it's no surprise. The Spurs had a major advantage running the P&R with Gino/Tiago and Gino/Tim attacking Blair/Dirk. They really went at it very successfully pretty much this whole series. The added bonus of Manu rediscovering his way to the free throw line was also great, especially since he was pretty much our whole bench until game 4, where Boris and Mills started to play better.

[Kidd K]

Parker is the leading scorer of that serie with 20 ppg not Duncan: he had .58 shooting not .55

Parker shot .47 which is below his season average but to be fair he took inumerous last seconds shots.

Manu had a great serie all things considered, he played way above expectations while Parker played inconsistently and had pretty bad first games but no way he was not bothered by something. Difference is huge in terms of speed and energy between first games and game 7 for instance.

Based on exceeding expectations I'd say 1. Tiago, 2. Manu

The stats were through 6 games. Timmy was our leading scorer until game 7 where Tony scored 32.

Manu did play above his season averages, but I wouldn't say he played way above expectations. But like I said, it's an MVP award, not MIP award. Timmy or Tiago deserve the MVP. Tiago deserves the MIP. Manu doesn't deserve either imo. I will be more content with Manu if he continues to play well and stops having 1-8 5 TO games (amidst other bad plays) sandwiching his occasional impressive ones. His game still feels like Russian Roulette to me. And we're not even touching on his bad defense this series.

Timmy and Tiago had better series than Manu to me. But other than game 6, I had no complaints with Manu's series. He did well and deserves props. . .just not an honorary series MVP award imo. Timmy and Tiago deserve it more.

[ManuGinobiliArg]

Manu was the most consistent player of the round

[ElNono]

The stats were through 6 games. Timmy was our leading scorer until game 7 where Tony scored 32.

Manu was actually the Spurs leading scorer through the first 5 games.


Manu did play above his season averages, but I wouldn't say he played way above expectations.

uh? Averaging almost 20ppg through 5 games when he averaged 12ppg in the regular season is not way above expectations? I think you might need to adjust to what you expect from him.

[superjames1992]

Man, so much moving the goalposts in this thread, tbh.

[ElNono]

I would personally make it a 3 player award for Thiago, Tim and Manu... All 3 of them played solid basketball and attacked the Dallas' weakest link successfully, which is a big reason why we moved on.

[Kidd K]

Manu was actually the Spurs leading scorer through the first 5 games.



uh? Averaging almost 20ppg through 5 games when he averaged 12ppg in the regular season is not way above expectations? I think you might need to adjust to what you expect from him.

Yeah he was, then game 6 happened.

No it isn't that far above expectations. Manu has been playing below expectations to me for years, so he isn't going from 12.5-17.5 to me. He was already about -3 PPG from what I expected all season, so he's just +2 to me on the series above my expectations.

Again, I'm not going to reward a guy with extra postseason props just because he played a mediocre regular season (by his former standards) or penalize a guy for being more reliable all season. Timmy had a better series. Tiago played further above expectations. Manu's a third wheel. Note: I didn't say he sucked. I'm simply saying he wasn't the series MVP.

[ElNono]

No it isn't that far above expectations. Manu has been playing below expectations to me for years, so he isn't going from 12.5-17.5 to me. He was already about -3 PPG from what I expected all season, so he's just +2 to me on the series above my expectations.


I think you might need to adjust to what you expect from him.

[Kidd K]

Nah I don't ElNono. I expect 15 PPG from a player who is given the ball that much and is taking 15 shots a game.



Man, so much moving the goalposts in this thread, tbh.

You clearly don't know what that means if you're referring to my posts. I separate MIP from MVP. The only person moving any goalposts is you if you think a player deserves more credit than someone who played better because he was shittier in the regular season.

Manu was not the best Spur in the series period. There are no goalposts that need to be moved for that to be true. You have to cloud the argument with your fan expectations and other nonsense while ignoring defense to even argue otherwise.

[DrSteffo]

Splitter was dominating and shitting on the haters per par tbh

[diego]

What bad game was game 6 sandwiched by, kidd k? Was tiago consistent in game 2?


I'm ok with giving tiago the MVP, he was great, no need to make shit up.

[hater]

Splitter was dominating and shitting on the haters per par tbh

/thread

[ElNono]

Nah I don't ElNono. I expect 15 PPG from a player who is given the ball that much and is taking 15 shots a game.

:lol You're mixing up numbers. He's averaged 9 FGA *for the past 3 seasons* (and averaging roughly 12.5 ppg). As a matter of fact, this past season, he ranks #6 in FGA on the team. Even Beli, Mills and Kawhi have taken more shots than him.

He is given the ball a lot because he's a playmaker. He's no longer primarily a scorer. He's been ranked #2 in assist for this team for the past 3 seasons in a row.

[littlecoyotecoin]

After this picture, I am willing to change my vote

http://i.imgur.com/xjRdswQ.png

It puts the lotion in the basket.

[ElNono]

Damn looking through the numbers... 16 steals for Gino this series... wow... Kawhi coming in second at with 8...

[diego]

Manu hasn't averaged 15 fga ever in his career by the way, he had less than 12 fga this series for 17.7 pts. Manu also had the best drtg of the guys who got minutes, forced a lot of turnovers by drawing fouls and getting steals. Again i've no problem giving splitter his props for his d on dirk but manu was hardly a liability like you are implying.

[kuato]

Luis Scola's son, aka Splitter, deserves it, give Manu the finals mvp

[z0sa]

Manu, undoubtedly.

[Kidd K]

:lol You're mixing up numbers. He's averaged 9 FGA *for the past 3 seasons* (and averaging roughly 12.5 ppg). As a matter of fact, this past season, he ranks #6 in FGA on the team. Even Beli, Mills and Kawhi have taken more shots than him.

He is given the ball a lot because he's a playmaker. He's no longer primarily a scorer. He's been ranked #2 in assist for this team for the past 3 seasons in a row.

Nah man, he took 15 shots a game in the Mavs series. 11.4 FGAs + (6.7 FTAs - .3 for his And 1s /2) and you have 15 shots. I mean like if Durant has 30 points and 19 FGAs it doesn't mean he only took 19 shots when he has like 18 FTAs, you know? It's really 28 shots. FGAs to points usually doesn't explain it. FTAs still consume a possession. I'll specify I don't mean just FGAs next time when I say "shots" :P

[DMC]

/thread
Which is ironic seeing how you're "hater".

[Capster]

After this picture, I am willing to change my vote

http://i.imgur.com/xjRdswQ.png

I saw Ginobili with the chap stick yesterday on the bench.......Hilarious!!!

[ElNono]

Nah man, he took 15 shots a game in the Mavs series. 11.4 FGAs + (6.7 FTAs - .3 for his And 1s /2) and you have 15 shots. I mean like if Durant has 30 points and 19 FGAs it doesn't mean he only took 19 shots when he has like 18 FTAs, you know? It's really 28 shots. FGAs to points usually doesn't explain it. FTAs still consume a possession. I'll specify I don't mean just FGAs next time when I say "shots" :P

You're still mixing them up :lol. You're taking his shots attempts in the Mavs series (where he actually went over your supposedly "expected" scoring rate) to explain why you've been expecting more from Manu in the last couple of seasons...


No it isn't that far above expectations. Manu has been playing below expectations to me for years, so he isn't going from 12.5-17.5 to me. He was already about -3 PPG from what I expected all season, so he's just +2 to me on the series above my expectations.

Except that for the last 3 seasons, he hasn't taken anywhere near 15 shots a game. Applying your same formula:
2014: 10.4
2013: 10.7
2012: 10.0

The whole problem is that you're focusing on one specific area of the boxscore that's no longer Manu's main role. He is, above all, a playmaker now. It's time to simply accept who Manu is now, and bring your scoring expectations about him down a notch.

[heyheymymy]

now that i think about it, manu was gold, but splitters play was so crucial it may be the MVperformance

[Kidd K]

You're still mixing them up :lol. You're taking his shots attempts in the Mavs series (where he actually went over your supposedly "expected" scoring rate) to explain why you've been expecting more from Manu in the last couple of seasons...



Except that for the last 3 seasons, he hasn't taken anywhere near 15 shots a game. Applying your same formula:
2014: 10.4
2013: 10.7
2012: 10.0

The whole problem is that you're focusing on one specific area of the boxscore that's no longer Manu's main role. He is, above all, a playmaker now. It's time to simply accept who Manu is now, and bring your scoring expectations about him down a notch.

His minutes are up vs the season and he's been underwhelming for years during the season man, that's what I mean about expectations. It isn't like he's Danny Green. He's Manu Ginobili, the big dick bastard who was getting 12m/year and part of the big 3 until very recently with his shit postseason performance last year. 12 PPG is very underwhelming and below my expectations. I don't expect 17 PPG obviously, but I don't see why 14-15 is so unreasonable with his increased shots and minutes. Timmy's even older and puts up 15/10/3 still with good D. Manu: 12/3/4.

Just to put then numbers out there so you can see what I'm looking at for this take, he plays 22 mins during the season and about 28 in the playoffs over the last 3 years. He sucked last postseason and performed way below expectation, so I don't consider more than that to be a bonus. It is not unreasonable to "expect" a stat increase with his minutes increase. His volume of shots per 36 this reg season was nearly 17 shots already (14.6 FGAs, 4.4 FTAs). Postseason is about 19.5 shots per 36 (15 FGAs, 8.8 FTAs).

His role is similar as it used to be. He's always been taking a lot of shots, his minutes have just been down the past three years. He's basically only taking two more shots per 36. So yeah I do expect about 15 PPG with his shot volume. He just took a little more than usual to get the extra 2.5 PPG. He's also had a solid TS% due to the big increase in FTAs. I do hope it continues, but like I said, aside from those extra FTAs on drives he normally wouldn't have taken, he really isn't playing -that- far above what I expected. I didn't expect him to be shit against the Mavs in the first round. I expect him to be shit against OKC and Miami if we get to them. *shrugs*

He's doing well and we're gonna need it against Portland. Now if only Tiago can retain his level of play. . . .

[Diego20]

Stats were through game 6 and didn't include the irrelevant game 7 stats (same way I didn't include Splitter's game 7 stats). Half his points in game 7 were scored after we were up over 20 and there was just 15 minutes or less left in the game. Excuse me for not counting irrelevant stats during irrelevant minutes of a game we were winning by 30 since our whole team was shooting 70% for nearly the entire first half and was practically over already.

Same as Brazil said, dude, we got you don't like Manu.

[Diego20]

The stats were through 6 games. Timmy was our leading scorer until game 7 where Tony scored 32.

Manu did play above his season averages, but I wouldn't say he played way above expectations. But like I said, it's an MVP award, not MIP award. Timmy or Tiago deserve the MVP. Tiago deserves the MIP. Manu doesn't deserve either imo. I will be more content with Manu if he continues to play well and stops having 1-8 5 TO games (amidst other bad plays) sandwiching his occasional impressive ones. His game still feels like Russian Roulette to me. And we're not even touching on his bad defense this series.

Really? Manu was our leading scorer before game 6.

Timmy and Tiago had better series than Manu to me. But other than game 6, I had no complaints with Manu's series. He did well and deserves props. . .just not an honorary series MVP award imo. Timmy and Tiago deserve it more.

Dude, Basketball is not all about scoring.

[pgardn]

Don't think we really had one.

Based on expectations possibly Ginobili.

[ElNono]

His minutes are up vs the season and he's been underwhelming for years during the season man, that's what I mean about expectations. It isn't like he's Danny Green. He's Manu Ginobili, the big dick bastard who was getting 12m/year and part of the big 3 until very recently with his shit postseason performance last year. 12 PPG is very underwhelming and below my expectations. I don't expect 17 PPG obviously, but I don't see why 14-15 is so unreasonable with his increased shots and minutes. Timmy's even older and puts up 15/10/3 still with good D. Manu: 12/3/4.

Just to put then numbers out there so you can see what I'm looking at for this take, he plays 22 mins during the season and about 28 in the playoffs over the last 3 years. He sucked last postseason and performed way below expectation, so I don't consider more than that to be a bonus. It is not unreasonable to "expect" a stat increase with his minutes increase. His volume of shots per 36 this reg season was nearly 17 shots already (14.6 FGAs, 4.4 FTAs). Postseason is about 19.5 shots per 36 (15 FGAs, 8.8 FTAs).

His role is similar as it used to be. He's always been taking a lot of shots, his minutes have just been down the past three years. He's basically only taking two more shots per 36. So yeah I do expect about 15 PPG with his shot volume. He just took a little more than usual to get the extra 2.5 PPG. He's also had a solid TS% due to the big increase in FTAs. I do hope it continues, but like I said, aside from those extra FTAs on drives he normally wouldn't have taken, he really isn't playing -that- far above what I expected. I didn't expect him to be shit against the Mavs in the first round. I expect him to be shit against OKC and Miami if we get to them. *shrugs*

He's doing well and we're gonna need it against Portland. Now if only Tiago can retain his level of play. . . .

I don't have a problem with what your "expectations" are... even though I don't agree with them, and I suspect you'll be disappointed when it's all said and done.

Throwing stats in the air and mixing and matching them to fit your narrative is what undermines your argument. Bringing up more stats, per 36 stats, etc don't make the previous, erroneous assumptions you built your argument on any more true.

There's plenty of stats that measure efficiency (which is at the core of your argument: Manu doesn't score enough for the amount of shots he takes), but the reality is that Gino is one of the most impactful and efficient players in the league. Whether you're looking at PER or PIE, he's up there in the top 5 percentile of the league. Obviously, that is limited because of the amount of minutes he plays, and that's just a reality of being 37 years old.

Duncan is arguably a top 10 player ever, and a freak. You can count with the fingers on one hand how many guys at 38 years old do what he does night in and out.

At any rate, I do agree we're going to need all of our guns going forward... including Mills and up to an extent Beli.

I just think that if you expect Gino to play like in the 1st round on all the series, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I could be wrong, and hope I'm wrong, but I'll take the larger sample size as the better indicator of what's to come.

[Kidd K]

Same as Brazil said, dude, we got you don't like Manu.

I don't dislike Manu, I dislike how he hurts the team when he has those trademark horrendous games, where instead of just try harder or play smarter when things aren't going his way, he instead starts gambling over and over while it rarely pays off. You're just being emotional about the negativity. I'm simply not going to herald him as a hero after round one due to his recent history. If he continues to play well, I will give him props.



Dude, Basketball is not all about scoring.

I didn't say it was here or anywhere else in my life ever. Very poor strawman. In fact if you scroll up, I multiple times mention defense. Manu specifically did not play great D. Splitter however, did. Enhancing his MVP case.

[Kidd K]

I don't have a problem with what your "expectations" are... even though I don't agree with them, and I suspect you'll be disappointed when it's all said and done.

Throwing stats in the air and mixing and matching them to fit your narrative is what undermines your argument. Bringing up more stats, per 36 stats, etc don't make the previous, erroneous assumptions you built your argument on any more true.

There's plenty of stats that measure efficiency (which is at the core of your argument: Manu doesn't score enough for the amount of shots he takes), but the reality is that Gino is one of the most impactful and efficient players in the league. Whether you're looking at PER or PIE, he's up there in the top 5 percentile of the league. Obviously, that is limited because of the amount of minutes he plays, and that's just a reality of being 37 years old.

Duncan is arguably a top 10 player ever, and a freak. You can count with the fingers on one hand how many guys at 38 years old do what he does night in and out.

At any rate, I do agree we're going to need all of our guns going forward... including Mills and up to an extent Beli.

I just think that if you expect Gino to play like in the 1st round on all the series, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I could be wrong, and hope I'm wrong, but I'll take the larger sample size as the better indicator of what's to come.

I'm not throwing stats in the air or mixing and matching them to fit a narritive. You are simply missing the very basic point I am making by trying to make it out to be something it isn't. I will keep it simple here because I don't really see why we're arguing this.

The fact is that Manu is playing more minutes, therefore he will be taking more shots, therefore he will be scoring more points. Following this extremely basic set of logic, Manu's PPG will naturally go up. So an increase in scoring from 12 to 14 or 15 is not a "wow big increase", it's merely a natural, foregone conclusion. So yes, I EXPECT him to score 14-15 PPG since he is playing 28 minutes per game now instead of just 22.

Let's use simple grade school math here. 28-22 is 6. 6/22 is 0.272. So that's an additional 27% minutes of playing time. If Manu averages 12.3 PPG in 22 minutes, and plays an additional 27% minutes per game, let's add 27% more points to his 12.3. Ah I see, that's 15.5 PPG now.

So yes, I expect Manu to score 15 PPG instead of 12.3 when his minutes went up by 27% and shot attempts went up along with it. Manu played above what I expected, but not that far above. There is no crazy argument here to fit some narrative, it's all very basic. Minutes up = I expect more shots and points by default. So a stat increase is inevitable.

[ElNono]

You said:


No it isn't that far above expectations. Manu has been playing below expectations to me for years, so he isn't going from 12.5-17.5 to me. He was already about -3 PPG from what I expected all season, so he's just +2 to me on the series above my expectations.

What I read from that is that you expected him to be a 15 PPG player during the regular season, even though he didn't take anywhere near the same amount of shots, nor played the same amount of minutes. That's the only thing I took exception with.

Maybe I misunderstood.

[pgardn]

I'm not throwing stats in the air or mixing and matching them to fit a narritive. You are simply missing the very basic point I am making by trying to make it out to be something it isn't. I will keep it simple here because I don't really see why we're arguing this.

The fact is that Manu is playing more minutes, therefore he will be taking more shots, therefore he will be scoring more points. Following this extremely basic set of logic, Manu's PPG will naturally go up. So an increase in scoring from 12 to 14 or 15 is not a "wow big increase", it's merely a natural, foregone conclusion. So yes, I EXPECT him to score 14-15 PPG since he is playing 28 minutes per game now instead of just 22.

Let's use simple grade school math here. 28-22 is 6. 6/22 is 0.272. So that's an additional 27% minutes of playing time. If Manu averages 12.3 PPG in 22 minutes, and plays an additional 27% minutes per game, let's add 27% more points to his 12.3. Ah I see, that's 15.5 PPG now.

So yes, I expect Manu to score 15 PPG instead of 12.3 when his minutes went up by 27% and shot attempts went up along with it. Manu played above what I expected, but not that far above. There is no crazy argument here to fit some narrative, it's all very basic. Minutes up = I expect more shots and points by default. So a stat increase is inevitable.

But running the team in very effective manner when Tony was in a funk was not really expected, not by myself anyway.

The fact Manu was even on the floor for major minutes because his mistakes were more limited is impressive ( if we go back to last year)

Personally I can't find one guy because it was diff players in diff games.
Tony possibly (with a kid on his mind ) could be MVP because he made game 7 a laugher.

[Manudona]

I'm simply not going to herald him as a hero after round one due to his recent history. If he continues to play well, I will give him props.

I didn't say it was here or anywhere else in my life ever. Very poor strawman. In fact if you scroll up, I multiple times mention defense. Manu specifically did not play great D. Splitter however, did. Enhancing his MVP case.

First paragraph completely ignores the subject of the thread which asks about the mvp of round one, so there is no point on bringing up Manu's recent history as the context was already unambiguously defined, that is just an scapegoat for you to display your hatred and hypocrisy, and then you name Splitter as the mvp, why didn't you bring his recent history, of a soft underachiever specially during play-offs?

[Kabals]

Splitter was damn great but at no moment you would think "give the ball to Splitter" and hope he makes something and that is what a mvp is supposed to do. He was only scoring easy lay up from Tony and especially Manu, he did it better than his (low) average so props to him, and getting easy offensive rebound after a switch on the PnR. Duncan apart from game 1 was the same, he was struggling in the post and scoring easy layup from Manu. That's no coincidence if we blow the Mavs with Splitter playing less than usually.

Props to Tony and Manu for what they do with maybe the worst spacing bigs duo of the league.

[gilmor]

Does it matter?

[anakha]

Does it matter?

The board has to have something to argue about while waiting for the second round to start.

[Manudona]

Does it matter?

Not a damn thing.

[will_spurs]

Splitter was damn great but at no moment you would think "give the ball to Splitter" and hope he makes something and that is what a mvp is supposed to do. He was only scoring easy lay up from Tony and especially Manu, he did it better than his (low) average so props to him, and getting easy offensive rebound after a switch on the PnR. Duncan apart from game 1 was the same, he was struggling in the post and scoring easy layup from Manu. That's no coincidence if we blow the Mavs with Splitter playing less than usually.

You have a short memory. Splitter was key at the end of the very important Game 5, and it was certainly no freebies, plus he had a nice assist to Parker and some key rebounds.

[Chinook]

You have a short memory. Splitter was key at the end of the very important Game 5, and it was certainly no freebies, plus he had a nice assist to Parker and some key rebounds.

I agree. Splitter absolutely ran the show in that fourth quarter. He had four assists, at least 10 points and numerous contested rebounds. The idea that he never had a stretch where he carried the team is way off-base. Tiago looked like a top-10 big during that game.

[PingPong]

Luis Scola's son, aka Splitter, deserves it, give Manu the finals mvp

And probably Scola wll be the Indy's MVP.

[TMTTRIO]

I think ya'll expect too much out of Manu anymore and so does the team. I love him but I think he needs even fewer minutes (even though he's already limited with his minutes) and just be used from time to time. Hopefully the other guys off the bench will really step up like they did tonight.

[ElNono]

I think ya'll expect too much out of Manu anymore and so does the team. I love him but I think he needs even fewer minutes (even though he's already limited with his minutes) and just be used from time to time. Hopefully the other guys off the bench will really step up like they did tonight.

Manu was awful today... Pop had the quick hook (only 18 mins). A lot easier to do when the rest of the bench shows up and plays well. Beli specifically, is a huge plus in games like this.

[Johnny RIngo]

I think ya'll expect too much out of Manu anymore and so does the team. I love him but I think he needs even fewer minutes (even though he's already limited with his minutes) and just be used from time to time. Hopefully the other guys off the bench will really step up like they did tonight.

Manu had a top 5 PER for all players in the first round. He was fantastic against Dallas. Not too good tonight but I'm not expecting him to maintain the kind of production we saw in the first round. If he can give us 12-15 ppg on good efficiency, Spurs are in great shape.