Man Down

[djohn2oo8]

463741642818596864

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Pringles has found his next team to ruin, tbh....

[The Reckoning]

bleacher report says steve "clutch" kerr should replace him

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2051347-should-golden-state-warriors-pursue-steve-kerr-to-replace-mark-jackson

[djohn2oo8]

Really though, who is GS going to find to make them a non-jumpshooting team?

[spurraider21]

I wouldn't oppose a coach-swap reality show with Mchale and Jackson

[baseline bum]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zCnK_UT2A1s/Te59GEaCFMI/AAAAAAAAAUY/vL02pCp_vqU/s1600/Mark%2BJackson.jpg

Mama, there goes my job!

[djohn2oo8]

I wouldn't oppose a coach-swap reality show with Mchale and Jackson
Sadly, Jackson is much better.

[djohn2oo8]

463744875876192256

[spurraider21]

I would love to hear Mark Jackson's rendition of bohemian rhapsody.

[MeloHype]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/849158525.gif

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Another career killed by LkrFan:


You guys will be spit shining Mark Jackson's size 11 Stacy Adams real soon. :lol

Goddamn, how does he do it?

[djohn2oo8]

:lol ^

[Chinook]

He's a poor coach in all the ways that matter, but he doesn't deserve to be fired for this season. The Warriors put up a great performance against the Clippers given that they had no centers. The owner was stupid for having a championship or bust mentality when their best players can be completely erased by Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard. They were never making it out of the West.

[lil_penny]

Espn just said he's been fired

Here's woj http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--warriors-fire-mark-jackson-after-three-seasons-190640446.html

[baseline bum]

Please Lakers, hire this guy and keep him off ABC/ESPN and TNT.

[ffadicted]

wwtf really

[baseline bum]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--warriors-fire-mark-jackson-after-three-seasons-190640446.html

Jackson clashed constantly with management and struggled to manage his coaching staff during his Warriors tenure. Jackson's disinterest in game preparation and reluctance to practice despite a mostly young and gifted roster played a part in management's reluctance to commit long term to him, league sources said.

Jackson relied on an assistant coach, Darren Erman, to build a top-five defense, but Erman was fired late in the season after an incident that involved the taping of a conversation among the coaching staff.

:lmao

[lil_penny]

Maybe he can get back with espn during the remainder of the playoffs :lol

[manufan10]

Maybe he can get back with espn during the remainder of the playoffs :lol

God, I hope not.

[ElNono]

RIP, IMO

[Spurs da champs]

He's a poor coach in all the ways that matter, but he doesn't deserve to be fired for this season. The Warriors put up a great performance against the Clippers given that they had no centers. The owner was stupid for having a championship or bust mentality when their best players can be completely erased by Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard. They were never making it out of the West.
Klay has really improved this year & Steph was being run to the ground by Jackson, that starting 5 is much too talented to be a bottom tier seed. Maybe a Van Grundy replaces him?

[lil_penny]

God, I hope not.

Imagine him calling clips and thunder series less than a week after he played a game 7 against them :lmao

[baseline bum]

Maybe he can get back with espn during the remainder of the playoffs :lol

Hopefully he waits until next round when we're out tbh

[Mori Chu]

Firing this idiot was a Grown Man Move. Fans are pointing out how many wins he's gotten them, but he just had too many issues this season. He clashed with everybody and honestly underperformed with the team this year given how much talent they had. It's like McHale in Houston or Vinny with the Clips. Sometimes even if the team is doing well, the coach sucks and they could have somebody better.

[djohn2oo8]

Firing this idiot was a Grown Man Move. Fans are pointing out how many wins he's gotten them, but he just had too many issues this season. He clashed with everybody and honestly underperformed with the team this year given how much talent they had. It's like McHale in Houston or Vinny with the Clips. Sometimes even if the team is doing well, the coach sucks and they could have somebody better.
They had injuries and went 7 with the Clippers. They didn't underperform.

[manufan10]

George Karl was fired the same season he won the COTY, so not surprising tbh. Especially since he had problems with management.

[Mori Chu]

They had injuries and went 7 with the Clippers. They didn't underperform.

With that roster they should have been better than barely making the playoffs, period.

[r-nice]

With that roster they should have been better than barely making the playoffs, period.

They didn't barely make it. Plus they were without Bogut.

[djohn2oo8]

With that roster they should have been better than barely making the playoffs, period.

With the roster the Suns had, they should have made it, Period.

[Clipper Nation]

With that roster they should have been better than barely making the playoffs, period.

They got in.

[Venti Quattro]

Mori Chu with the bads. They pushed a 57-win Clippers team to the edge. If you think they underachieved, you should consider the possibility of committing suicide.

[jag]

It had nothing to do with his coaching. Sure he sucks, but outside of the top 5 coaches you're really just looking at a bunch of dudes trying to make the fewest shitty moves to keep their jobs.

This was about him trying to run his team like a preacher, and refusing to take any advice. Saying retarded things to the media probably didn't help.

[hater]

Getting bounced in the first round is usually a failure unless you an 8th or 7th seed, or unless your stars are new to the playoffs. Warriors are neither so I call it a failure. Then again Im the Godfather and have high standards :lol

[Jacob1983]

It's like death and taxes. Sooner or later, they're gonna get ya.

[Kamnik]

Please Lakers, hire this guy and keep him off ABC/ESPN and TNT.

+1

Hate to listen to his commenting. He was awful.

[Red Hawk #21]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/849158525.gif

This GIF is misleading, Lacob was upset about a dumb pass that Klay made. He just happened to look in Jax's direction, you can see the Dubs fan behind Lacob was pissed about the turnover as well.

[hater]

Good news, Jackson gof fired. Bad news, he might go back to broadcastinv :lmao

[Red Hawk #21]

It was only a matter of time before Jax was fired. Dude brought religion into the locker room, alienated assistant coaches and consistently resorted to preaching instead of strategy. Dude never had any game-plan whatsoever. The only issue I have with his firing was that I don't really see any great coaches out there as of right now. I don't see the purpose in going after Steve Kerr. Yes, Kerr was a great role player but he hasn't done anything as a coach. Warriors FO must think long and hard of who they want to make the coach going forward. Mike Malone would have been a great coach for the dubs, too bad he's stuck in a shitty situation in Sacramento. We'll see what happens...

[Capt Bringdown]

Clashes with Boss = you shouldn't expect much, no matter what your performance. No shortages of coaches, after all.

[Chinook]

Klay has really improved this year & Steph was being run to the ground by Jackson, that starting 5 is much too talented to be a bottom tier seed. Maybe a Van Grundy replaces him?

The starting five had a great chance to be playing OKC right now had it been complete. When you have Draymond Green running around as your center for a good chunk of a series, it's amazing they were even in it. Jackson doesn't seem very smart, too preachy, and a diva. Those are things to make a team wary of extending him. But he also managed to make his smalls play very well, which is not a guarantee for most coaches. There are coaches who could get more out of the roster, although they probably need to find a new backup center or, as they can't depend on Bogut to stay healthy. But they can easily be worse. PG-lead teams tend to flop in the playoffs.

[DMC]

Just imagine if the Warriors owners were racist... they couldn't fire him. Thank god there's no more racism.

[DMC]

It was only a matter of time before Jax was fired. Dude brought religion into the locker room, alienated assistant coaches and consistently resorted to preaching instead of strategy. Dude never had any game-plan whatsoever. The only issue I have with his firing was that I don't really see any great coaches out there as of right now. I don't see the purpose in going after Steve Kerr. Yes, Kerr was a great role player but he hasn't done anything as a coach. Warriors FO must think long and hard of who they want to make the coach going forward. Mike Malone would have been a great coach for the dubs, too bad he's stuck in a shitty situation in Sacramento. We'll see what happens...

If you have someone who's not going to work for you, get rid of him. You don't necessarily need a better alternative at the moment, but you have to remove him so the team can move forward. The longer he's there the more damage he does.

[Red Hawk #21]

If you have someone who's not going to work for you, get rid of him. You don't necessarily need a better alternative at the moment, but you have to remove him so the team can move forward. The longer he's there the more damage he does.

I can understand your point, but I can't fully agree. I think they do need a better alternative at the moment. While Jax lacked strategy, the players for the most part loved playing for him. That is something that shouldn't be overlooked. If they hire some rookie head coach who doesn't have a proper gameplan, and fails to gain the trust of the players (Like Mark Jackson did), then the Dubs may end up in a worse situation.

[DMC]

I can understand your point, but I can't fully agree. I think they do need a better alternative at the moment. While Jax lacked strategy, the players for the most part loved playing for him. That is something that shouldn't be overlooked. If they hire some rookie head coach who doesn't have a proper gameplan, and fails to gain the trust of the players (Like Mark Jackson did), then the Dubs may end up in a worse situation.

Therein lies the problem though; if the players love him they are going to do more to adopt his failing strategy and do less to ever accept a new system, one more conducive to winning a title. It's not about chemistry with the coach, but does the coach have the ability to instill a winning brand of basketball, not just at a regular season level, and does the philosophy of the coach clash with the direction the organization wants to go?

You don't need to bifurcate with "a rookie coach". A seasoned coach might not be a better short term alternative, however you realize you're going in the wrong direction, you have to change directions.

Mark Jackson is a rookie coach, he never coached before going to GS. Jason Kidd is the same thing and look, he's in the 2nd round now. It's about your players and the system you run. Mark and GS aren't a good fit. They might suffer for it for a while, but they were never going to win a ring.

[Red Hawk #21]

Therein lies the problem though; if the players love him they are going to do more to adopt his failing strategy and do less to ever accept a new system, one more conducive to winning a title. It's not about chemistry with the coach, but does the coach have the ability to instill a winning brand of basketball, not just at a regular season level, and does the philosophy of the coach clash with the direction the organization wants to go?

You don't need to bifurcate with "a rookie coach". A seasoned coach might not be a better short term alternative, however you realize you're going in the wrong direction, you have to change directions.

Mark Jackson is a rookie coach, he never coached before going to GS. Jason Kidd is the same thing and look, he's in the 2nd round now. It's about your players and the system you run. Mark and GS aren't a good fit. They might suffer for it for a while, but they were never going to win a ring.

Valid points, DMC.

[024]

This is bad news. He'll probably go back to ESPN. I can't take anymore "grown man moves" and "mama there goes that man."

[DMC]

I think Jackson stays away from broadcasting for a while, just from embarrassment alone. I think he gets picked up by some shitty Eastern team, maybe as an assistant.

[Red Hawk #21]

Goddamn, it would be so stupid for the Warriors to hire Steve Kerr.

[DMC]

Goddamn, it would be so stupid for the Warriors to hire Steve Kerr.

But not Mike D.

[Red Hawk #21]

But not Mike D.

D'antoni would run his starters to the ground and the defense would be shit. At least most of the Dubs (Outside of David Lee) actually try to play defense, under D'antoni it would be a fucking layup line.

[DMC]

D'antoni would run his starters to the ground and the defense would be shit. At least most of the Dubs (Outside of David Lee) actually try to play defense, under D'antoni it would be a fucking layup line.

Yeah but they cannot play a lick of defense anyhow, so get Curry open looks in transition and at least make the game fun. Who wants to see that water headed fucker Bogut out there swatting the ball around and that fake ass half court set?

[DPG21920]

lol I love how Jackson brought religion into the locker room in the form of cheating on his wife with a stripper.

[Clipper Nation]

Yeah but they cannot play a lick of defense anyhow
They're actually a good defensive team, tbh, it's just Curry and Lee that don't play any defense.... the Warriors' defense is why our series went 7, tbh....

[DMC]

They're actually a good defensive team, tbh, it's just Curry and Lee that don't play any defense.... the Warriors' defense is why our series went 7, tbh....
So their two best players don't play defense but they are a good defensive team. They allowed 126 points in regulation in a closeout game and they are a good defensive team. They allowed an average of over 110pts a game in the playoffs and they are a good defensive team. I guess I must not understand how defense is measured.

[DPG21920]

So their two best players don't play defense but they are a good defensive team. They allowed 126 points in regulation in a closeout game and they are a good defensive team. They allowed an average of over 110pts a game in the playoffs and they are a good defensive team. I guess I must not understand how defense is measured.

Look at their numbers with Bogut/Iggy healthy and playing.

[DPG21920]

But bottom line, Jackson seemingly rubbed people the wrong way with his fake "religious" shtick. Not only did he clash with the people who gave him a shot a coaching, they put a really stacked team in front of him and he couldn't get anything of note done. Then he continued to clash with management and staff even after they stood by him during the adultery scandal.

Fired.

[DMC]

lol I love how Jackson brought religion into the locker room in the form of cheating on his wife with a stripper.
That's the most pure form of Southern Baptist religion there is.

[Clipper Nation]

So their two best players don't play defense but they are a good defensive team. They allowed 126 points in regulation in a closeout game and they are a good defensive team. They allowed an average of over 110pts a game in the playoffs and they are a good defensive team. I guess I must not understand how defense is measured.

:lmao Thinking Avi Lee is one of the Warriors' two best players

GSW has had one of the best two-year improvements in defensive rating in NBA history, they allowed 4.4 fewer points than the NBA average per 100 possessions (third-best in the league), they are one of the best teams at forcing opponents to shoot midrange shots and one of the best at denying them corner threes....

In our matchup, Klay was able to pressure CP3 effectively, denying him angles and space, and Green did a good job defending Blake until Game 7.... their smaller defenders' rotations were crisp and they were able to recover quickly.... they were able to force us into playing isoball for long stretches instead of moving the ball....

We still got ours, but that's simply because the Clippers' offense is the best in the NBA, they're not going to get totally shut down very often.... the difference between the Warriors' defense and other teams' was on display last night, though, as the Clippers moved the ball and torched MethKC from deep repeatedly in ways that they could not consistently do against the Warriors' defense....

[DMC]

Look at their numbers with Bogut/Iggy healthy and playing.

You mean like a total of what, 40% of the season? They have a hybrid system with a big in Bogut who totally clashes with the rapid fire style of Thompson and Curry, and AI seems like a clean up man. Lee seems to fit that system, doesn't play defense, so they could use him in the middle like a really really poor man's Amare (or a white Kevin Love). In fact, they could trade Bogut and AI for Kevin Love and have absolutely no defense whatsoever. That would make them the most exciting team in the league.

[DMC]

:lmao Thinking Avi Lee is one of the Warriors' two best players

GSW has had one of the best two-year improvements in defensive rating in NBA history, they allowed 4.4 fewer points than the NBA average per 100 possessions (third-best in the league), they are one of the best teams at forcing opponents to shoot midrange shots and one of the best at denying them corner threes....

In our matchup, Klay was able to pressure CP3 effectively, denying him angles and space, and Green did a good job defending Blake until Game 7.... their smaller defenders' rotations were crisp and they were able to recover quickly.... they were able to force us into playing isoball for long stretches instead of moving the ball....

We still got ours, but that's simply because the Clippers' offense is the best in the NBA, they're not going to get totally shut down very often.... the difference between the Warriors' defense and other teams' was on display last night, though, as the Clippers moved the ball and torched MethKC from deep repeatedly in ways that they could not consistently do against the Warriors' defense....

Name the Warrior's two best players, and if you name Thompson I'm going to file your name under the retarded take section.

And if you mean that Chris Paul couldn't shoot 8 for 9 from 3 before... you're right. He never did that in his entire life and sure, that was the Clippers overwhelming offense and that monster 39% 3pt ability of CP3 who often strays away from the 3.

[DPG21920]

Well, injuries aside, when they were healthy they were a very solid defensive team and still maintained a good offense. I'm not saying Jackson is a good coach - was just letting you know what the numbers said.

[Clipper Nation]

Name the Warrior's two best players, and if you name Thompson I'm going to file your name under the retarded take section.

I would easily take Iguodala or a healthy Bogut over Avi Lee, tbh.... neither of those players are anything special, either, Lee is just trash....

[DMC]

Well, injuries aside, when they were healthy they were a very solid defensive team and still maintained a good offense. I'm not saying Jackson is a good coach - was just letting you know what the numbers said.

You'd think they'd want to make Curry into a more true PG, but I bet they're thinking of making him more of their franchise guy and that means an offense that is more conducive to him getting easy looks at the cost of defense. He's best when he's shooting off the dribble without thinking about it (which is why he shit the bed in the 3pt contest, I think).

[DMC]

I would easily take Iguodala or a healthy Bogut over Avi Lee, tbh.... neither of those players are anything special, either, Lee is just trash....

Lee averaged over 18pts and almost 10rbs a game. That's hardly trash.

[Clipper Nation]

Lee averaged over 18pts and almost 10rbs a game. That's hardly trash.

http://i.imgur.com/4ubajOp.png

[DPG21920]

Lee averaged over 18pts and almost 10rbs a game. That's hardly trash.

Lee is statistically one of the biggest net loss players for a big name in the league.

[Gummi Clutch]

Hopefully they can get a white coach now.

[DMC]

http://i.imgur.com/4ubajOp.png

I don't recall Larry Sanders being with Golden State.

[Clipper Nation]

I don't recall Larry Sanders being with Golden State.
http://i.imgur.com/P06FE4K.jpg

[DMC]

Lee is statistically one of the biggest net loss players for a big name in the league.

So his PER being higher than Parker, Bosh, Lillard etc doesn't factor into the "net loss" aspect?

[DMC]

http://i.imgur.com/P06FE4K.jpg

I said best two players on GS and you show me Lee compared with a guy who's not on GS.

[Clipper Nation]

I said best two players on GS and you show me Lee compared with a guy who's not on GS.
The point of the diagram is that Lee is arguably the worst interior defender in the league, and it compares him to both the league average and a well above-average interior defender in Sanders just to show how bad Lee is.... luckily for him, the majority of his teammates play good enough defense to hide his deficiencies....

You, of course, knew this, but you're Philo-ing :lol

[DPG21920]

So his PER being higher than Parker, Bosh, Lillard etc doesn't factor into the "net loss" aspect?

No, it doesn't. Since PER is an offensive based metric that can't properly rate defensive ability...

[DMC]

The point of the diagram is that Lee is arguably the worst interior defender in the league, and it compares him to both the league average and a well above-average interior defender in Sanders just to show how bad Lee is....

You, of course, knew this, but you're Philo-ing :lol

No, I said Curry and Lee were the best players on GS. I didn't say Lee was a good defender. In the SSOL he wouldn't need to be. Maybe that little aspect of my argument escaped you in your fervor to nay say the greatness that I am on here.

[DMC]

No, it doesn't. Since PER is an offensive based metric that can't properly rate defensive ability...

So his +/- numbers then should be in the negative, correct?

[Clipper Nation]

No, I said Curry and Lee were the best players on GS. I didn't say Lee was a good defender. In the SSOL he wouldn't need to be. Maybe that little aspect of my argument escaped you in your fervor to nay say the greatness that I am on here.
He's so awful defensively that it cancels out any benefit he has on offense.... he is also a notorious rebound padder :lol

The SSOL is irrelevant when the argument was about a.) the Warriors being a good defensive team and b.) who the Warriors' top 2 players are....

[DPG21920]

So his +/- numbers then should be in the negative, correct?

Look at the teams off eff with him on the court combined with his def eff while on the court and look at the overall statistical gap. I didn't check it this year, but in most prior years, he's been a net negative player IIRC..

[DMC]

But not Mike D.


D'antoni would run his starters to the ground and the defense would be shit. At least most of the Dubs (Outside of David Lee) actually try to play defense, under D'antoni it would be a fucking layup line.


Yeah but they cannot play a lick of defense anyhow, so get Curry open looks in transition and at least make the game fun. Who wants to see that water headed fucker Bogut out there swatting the ball around and that fake ass half court set?


They're actually a good defensive team, tbh, it's just Curry and Lee that don't play any defense.... the Warriors' defense is why our series went 7, tbh....


So their two best players don't play defense but they are a good defensive team. They allowed 126 points in regulation in a closeout game and they are a good defensive team. They allowed an average of over 110pts a game in the playoffs and they are a good defensive team. I guess I must not understand how defense is measured.


:lmao Thinking Avi Lee is one of the Warriors' two best players

GSW has had one of the best two-year improvements in defensive rating in NBA history, they allowed 4.4 fewer points than the NBA average per 100 possessions (third-best in the league), they are one of the best teams at forcing opponents to shoot midrange shots and one of the best at denying them corner threes....

In our matchup, Klay was able to pressure CP3 effectively, denying him angles and space, and Green did a good job defending Blake until Game 7.... their smaller defenders' rotations were crisp and they were able to recover quickly.... they were able to force us into playing isoball for long stretches instead of moving the ball....

We still got ours, but that's simply because the Clippers' offense is the best in the NBA, they're not going to get totally shut down very often.... the difference between the Warriors' defense and other teams' was on display last night, though, as the Clippers moved the ball and torched MethKC from deep repeatedly in ways that they could not consistently do against the Warriors' defense....


Name the Warrior's two best players, and if you name Thompson I'm going to file your name under the retarded take section.

And if you mean that Chris Paul couldn't shoot 8 for 9 from 3 before... you're right. He never did that in his entire life and sure, that was the Clippers overwhelming offense and that monster 39% 3pt ability of CP3 who often strays away from the 3.


He's so awful defensively that it cancels out any benefit he has on offense.... he is also a notorious rebound padder :lol

The SSOL is irrelevant when the argument was about a.) the Warriors being a good defensive team and b.) who the Warriors' top 2 players are....

As you can see by following along in the reading and putting on your thinking cap, the argument was about the effectiveness of the SSOL in GS, not about whether or not David Lee was a good defender.

I gave you their points allowed in the playoffs. It doesn't matter what they are with this or that player that's not playing. They are who they are with who they have, just like everyone else including, for the longest time, Portland and, right now, Indiana with an injured Bynum and other teams with injured players who might have missed the playoffs because of it.

So, the SSOL would work well in GS because Thompson and Curry would have a field day, and Harrison Barnes and D-Green are athletic and can run the floor. Iggy can as well, but not Bogut. He would have to go. I think Lee could stay or they could package him with Bogie and and get an Ibaka type player (like they are everywhere). The main players in GS do not play defense worth a shit. That's fine, as long as they have some paint presence on defense and are lights out shooters. They should do well. Not a ring, but better than they are doing. That should carry a coach through his first stint.

[DPG21920]

When healthy, 3 of the 5 GS starters play fine defense (Klay, Iggy & Bogut).

[Clipper Nation]

I jumped in when you erroneously claimed the Warriors "don't play a lick of defense anyhow," so the preceding shit about D'Antoni doesn't really apply to my arguments, tbh....

The Warriors clearly do play defense, judging from their regular-season numbers as well as the majority of the playoff series, seeing as how they forced us into isoballing far more than we would have liked.... once again, the Clippers are the best offense in the league, so even with that, they weren't going to shut our offense down every single game.... that doesn't mean they "don't play a lick of defense," though....

[DMC]

I jumped in

Therein lies your problem.

[spurraider21]

I gotta admit, from an outsider's perspective, its funny to see two others Philo it up

[313]

Jackson should have taken after Scott brooks and got in good with management. Apparently as long as management likes you, and the players also like you, you're guaranteed job security. No matter how bad of a coach you are.

[Clipper Nation]

I gotta admit, from an outsider's perspective, its funny to see two others Philo it up
I don't Philo, I win :lol

[spurraider21]

:lol YEAH ok

[Red Hawk #21]

This thread shows why it's frustrating to argue with DMC, even when he is presented with facts he will not acknowledge them if they do not support his argument.

[DMC]

I gotta admit, from an outsider's perspective, its funny to see two others Philo it up

There's a difference between debate laced with competing evidences and just random nay saying with not even a sign of supportive substance. Basically all I get from your "philo" is "nuh uh". You don't offer a competing theory, you just nay say the one being presented and usually just because you feel compelled to respond. It's a beclouding which leads to dissipation of the mind.

[DMC]

This thread shows why it's frustrating to argue with DMC, even when he is presented with facts he will not acknowledge them if they do not support his argument.
Ok. What's my argument and which facts are you referring to?

[diego]

No, I said Curry and Lee were the best players on GS.

Any dubs fans agree with that? I dont. Lee being out instead of bogut is what gave them success, most dubs fans i know either want to trade him or bring him off the bench, draymond green and speights outplayed him. He's empty numbers and a walking layup líne, him being out last year instead of bogut just reinforces it.

As for dantoni i dont disagree that if you're paying lee and curry style play he's a good fit, but I don't know any dubs fans who want Lee to be their 2nd option and I agree. They have the players to be a good team

[Shastafarian]

You know your team is in trouble when your second best player is worse than Boris Diaw.

[DMC]

You know your team is in trouble when your second best player is worse than Boris Diaw.
They aren't in trouble... hell they can even sleep late tomorrow.

[Shastafarian]

I'd consider regressing (wins v losses) in the playoffs trouble.

[TDMVPDPOY]

shouldve been fired last season after the game his wife sang the national anthem? lmao

[DMC]

Any dubs fans agree with that? I dont. Lee being out instead of bogut is what gave them success, most dubs fans i know either want to trade him or bring him off the bench, draymond green and speights outplayed him. He's empty numbers and a walking layup líne, him being out last year instead of bogut just reinforces it.

As for dantoni i dont disagree that if you're paying lee and curry style play he's a good fit, but I don't know any dubs fans who want Lee to be their 2nd option and I agree. They have the players to be a good team

If Lee was the 2nd option, they'd have to have a paint presence greater than they have now. I don't see them ever developing a true inside out game as long as Curry is at the 1. He's too small to move to the 2, so he'd have to be with a team that runs where he can use his greatest strength.... shooting obviously.

[DMC]

I'd consider regressing (wins v losses) in the playoffs trouble.
Not for them.. but for Mark, sure. I think the team was actually better this season than last, but not good enough to make a difference.

[spurraider21]

There's a difference between debate laced with competing evidences and just random nay saying with not even a sign of supportive substance. Basically all I get from your "philo" is "nuh uh". You don't offer a competing theory, you just nay say the one being presented and usually just because you feel compelled to respond. It's a beclouding which leads to dissipation of the mind.
If I agree with somebody's point I'll let them know, and if I disagree I'll let them know as well. If you choose to blatantly ignore evidence and arguments I present, thats your thick skull's problem, not mine. And if you choose to refute arguments with your baseless, bullshit claims like "most of Curry's assists come from when he is forced to get rid of the ball at the end of the shot clock, not because of playmaking" its impossible to reason with you.

[Shastafarian]

Not for them.. but for Mark, sure. I think the team was actually better this season than last, but not good enough to make a difference.

Yeah but you're saying David Lee is their second best player. If that's the case then no matter who the coach is, they are in trouble.

[HemisfairArena]

Lionel Hollins would do wonders with Golden State.

[Clipper Nation]

Jackass, salty as hell :lol

Jackson: Pressure Now On Warriors To Get A Championship May 06, 2014 7:41 PM EDT

http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/wiretap/photos/2006/Jackson_Mark_gsw_111226.jpg Mark Jackson spoke with Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Mercury News shortly after his firing as head coach of the Golden State Warriors on Tuesday.
"We accomplished a lot in three years and we should be proud," said Jackson "I wish them nothing but the best.
"But to me, now the pressure’s on for them to get a championship. It’s not the time for them to be patient any more. This is a championship-caliber team. We were in the playoffs without David last year, and we were without Bogut this year.

"When this team is healthy, it is a legit contender. That’s something that we’re all looking at going forward."



Via Tim Kawakami/San Jose Mercury News (http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2014/05/06/mark-jackson-on-his-firing-and-knowing-the-pressures-on-the-warriors-now-that-hes-gone/)

[lefty]

Please Lakers, hire this guy and keep him off ABC/ESPN and TNT.

[DMC]

Yeah but you're saying David Lee is their second best player. If that's the case then no matter who the coach is, they are in trouble.

It depends on what you mean by "trouble". I think they can win more games than they did this year, they can go further in the playoffs... but they cannot win a ring if Steph is their best player.

[spurraider21]

It depends on what you mean by "trouble". I think they can win more games than they did this year, they can go further in the playoffs... but they cannot win a ring if Steph is their best player.
I'd be hard pressed to believe that any player not named LeBron would be able to rign with David Lee as the second best player, and even then its a big stretch

[Spurs da champs]

Don't really see the saltiness. Classy exit if anything ,tbh.

[Shastafarian]

It depends on what you mean by "trouble". I think they can win more games than they did this year, they can go further in the playoffs... but they cannot win a ring if Steph is their best player.
You're so fixated on best and worst. Steph can absolutely be the best offensive player on a championship team. Every player has their own strengths and weaknesses. Who was the best OVERALL player on the 2011 Mavs?

[DMC]

I'd be hard pressed to believe that any player not named LeBron would be able to rign with David Lee as the second best player, and even then its a big stretch

Hard pressed and "big stretch" are basically the same things. Either way, let's not make the stupid ass comparison between Lebron and Steph and pretend David is holding Steph back. Bring something substantial, not just misdirection and red herrings.

[DMC]

You're so fixated on best and worst. Steph can absolutely be the best offensive player on a championship team. Every player has their own strengths and weaknesses. Who was the best OVERALL player on the 2011 Mavs?

No he cannot. If Steph is the best player on the team, then everyone else is at a lower level. That means Steph's shooting is making the major difference on the team. It's certainly not his passing or protecting of the ball. If that's the case it's just not going to happen for the team.

[spurraider21]

Hard pressed and "big stretch" are basically the same things. Either way, let's not make the stupid ass comparison between Lebron and Steph and pretend David is holding Steph back. Bring something substantial, not just misdirection and red herrings.
a) you understood exactly what I said, no need to be coy about it. since lebron is the best player in the league, its clear that he would stand the best chance to ring on a team with Lee as the #2, but even then it wouldn't be likely
b) I never compared LeBron to Steph Curry
c) You don't think a players' supporting cast (or lack thereof) can ever hold him back from having team success?
d) My claim was just as substantive as your claim that "they won't win with Curry as their best player"

[Shastafarian]

:lol internet GM I guess. So who was the best player on that Mavs team?

[Clipper Nation]

Steph can absolutely be the best offensive player on a championship team.

Not unless he drastically cuts back on the turnovers, grows as a playmaker and adds some defense to that offense.... even then, his ankles and being a point guard are working against him, tbh....

[Shastafarian]

Not unless he drastically cuts back on the turnovers, grows as a playmaker and adds some defense to that offense.... even then, his ankles and being a point guard are working against him, tbh....

Well yeah clearly he needs to improve. But he has the skills to be the best offensive player on a title team.

[DMC]

:lol internet GM I guess. So who was the best player on that Mavs team?

Blair.

So anyone who disagrees with your run-of-the-mill take is an internet GM. Got it.

[DMC]

Well yeah clearly he needs to improve. But he has the skills to be the best offensive player on a title team.
No he doesn't. He's not better than Chris Paul and CP3 won't ever be the best offensive player on a title team.

[spurraider21]

Not unless he drastically cuts back on the turnovers, grows as a playmaker and adds some defense to that offense.... even then, his ankles and being a point guard are working against him, tbh....
his ankle woes have been blown out of proportion, only missing significant time in one year... he played 80, 74 games his first 2 years, 26 in his injury-marred season (was the lockout year), and has played in 78 and 78 games in the 2 years since. Curry's turnovers at this point are his biggest issue, but that generally comes with players increasing their playmaking role.

I liken his evolution as a player to something similar to Steve Nash, who started out as a flashy player/scorer on Dallas who took years to develop into a playmaker/passer. I'm not suggesting Curry will become the playmaker Nash was (he's one of the greatest of all time, of course), but I'm willing to cut him slack since his game is evolving. In college he was basically their only scoring threat at Davidson, so he didn't really have true point guard skills. He's only average defensively, but its not from a lack of effort

[DMC]

a) you understood exactly what I said, no need to be coy about it. since lebron is the best player in the league, its clear that he would stand the best chance to ring on a team with Lee as the #2, but even then it wouldn't be likely
b) I never compared LeBron to Steph Curry
c) You don't think a players' supporting cast (or lack thereof) can ever hold him back from having team success?
d) My claim was just as substantive as your claim that "they won't win with Curry as their best player"

1. You invoke Lebron because you cannot remotely provide an argument against the one I made (which didn't include Lebron). That's called a ><))))))>

2. You basically defended Curry by the blind assertion that Lebron couldn't ring with David Lee as his second best player, something you can't possibly know.

3. You didn't really have a claim. You just threw out a red herring per par for Philo

[DMC]

his ankle woes have been blown out of proportion, only missing significant time in one year... he played 80, 74 games his first 2 years, 26 in his injury-marred season (was the lockout year), and has played in 78 and 78 games in the 2 years since. Curry's turnovers at this point are his biggest issue, but that generally comes with players increasing their playmaking role.

I liken his evolution as a player to something similar to Steve Nash, who started out as a flashy player/scorer on Dallas who took years to develop into a playmaker/passer. I'm not suggesting Curry will become the playmaker Nash was (he's one of the greatest of all time, of course), but I'm willing to cut him slack since his game is evolving. In college he was basically their only scoring threat at Davidson, so he didn't really have true point guard skills. He's only average defensively, but its not from a lack of effort

You mean 0 and forever Steve Nash?

You like invoking HOF players and then stepping back with a disclaimer. Stop invoking them and comparing Steph to these guys and you won't have to make those disclaimers.

[Shastafarian]

Blair.

So anyone who disagrees with your run-of-the-mill take is an internet GM. Got it.

Blair wasn't on the 2011 Mavs. And you're an internet GM because I'd wager at least 2/3 of the league GMs would try to build a title team around Curry. And since they have jobs and you don't, you're designated an internet GM. Congrats.

[spurraider21]

1. You invoke Lebron because you cannot remotely provide an argument against the one I made (which didn't include Lebron). That's called a ><))))))>

2. You basically defended Curry by the blind assertion that Lebron couldn't ring with David Lee as his second best player.

3. You didn't really have a claim. You just threw out a red herring per par for Philo
Shastafarian made a comment saying the Warriors would be in trouble no matter what, if David Lee was their second best player. This is a notion I agree with. You then turned it into "well they won't win with Curry as their best player anyway." By the parameters you just described, that was a red herring in itself. I was adding on to Shastafarian's argument, but looking at the best case scenario of a team with David Lee as the #2 (which is clearly a team with LeBron as the 1).

[DMC]

Blair wasn't on the 2011 Mavs. And you're an internet GM because I'd wager at least 2/3 of the league GMs would try to build a title team around Curry. And since they have jobs and you don't, you're designated an internet GM. Congrats.

I don't read all of your posts so I have no idea what you're talking about. You can bet though the best player wasn't the point guard.

[spurraider21]

You mean 0 and forever Steve Nash?

You like invoking HOF players and then stepping back with a disclaimer. Stop invoking them and comparing Steph to these guys and you won't have to make those disclaimers.
I was pointing to growing pains we see in player development, which is something Nash went through as well. This was a response to CN, and yet you had to come here and philo it up without actually having a claim in the matter

[DMC]

Shastafarian made a comment saying the Warriors would be in trouble no matter what, if David Lee was their second best player. This is a notion I agree with. You then turned it into "well they won't win with Curry as their best player anyway." By the parameters you just described, that was a red herring in itself. I was adding on to Shastafarian's argument, but looking at the best case scenario of a team with David Lee as the #2 (which is clearly a team with LeBron as the 1).

But the term "trouble" is a nebulous term, meaningless if you cannot define it. The crystal ball arguments you two make are pointless, as if you expect someone to provide evidence against your predictions of what "would" be if some hypothetical existed. That's lazy ass debating that doesn't require knowing anything.

[spurraider21]

But the term "trouble" is a nebulous term, meaningless if you cannot define it. The crystal ball arguments you two make are pointless, as if you expect someone to provide evidence against your predictions of what "would" be if some hypothetical existed. That's lazy ass debating that doesn't require knowing anything.
I interpreted "trouble" as having low odds of being serious championship contenders. Your argument that Curry can never be the #1 offensive player on a championship caliber team is equally hypothetical and by your own standards is an equally pointless argument

[DMC]

I was pointing to growing pains we see in player development, which is something Nash went through as well. This was a response to CN, and yet you had to come here and philo it up without actually having a claim in the matter

Ok, so why not say Patty Mills? You didn't just pull Nash out randomly. You've established that you're a Curry homer, so your takes on it (as non-specific as they are) are tainted with that love for him, thus the invocation of Nash and Lebron, instead of two other players who aren't future HOFers.

[Shastafarian]

I don't read all of your posts so I have no idea what you're talking about. Sounds about right.

You can bet though the best player wasn't the point guard.
I thought you were into analyzing basketball. Sweet dodging answer.

[DMC]

I interpreted "trouble" as having low odds of being serious championship contenders

More non-specific "can't pin me down" drivel. Low odds? Less than what?

[Shastafarian]

But the term "trouble" is a nebulous term, meaningless if you cannot define it. The crystal ball arguments you two make are pointless, as if you expect someone to provide evidence against your predictions of what "would" be if some hypothetical existed. That's lazy ass debating that doesn't require knowing anything.

Crystal ball arguments like Steph Curry can never be the best player on a title team?

[Clipper Nation]

Philo Jr. and Philo Sr. Philo-ing the fuck out of this thread :lol

[DMC]

Sounds about right.

I thought you were into analyzing basketball. Sweet dodging answer.

You're an idiot. I've pissed you off with the sweeping evidence I posted in the past that showed blacks are genetically predisposed to commit crimes. I supported it in a way that would have held up in a court of law. You're just salty about it and now you've raised a wall of ignorance to my onslaught of basketball brilliance.

[DMC]

Crystal ball arguments like Steph Curry can never be the best player on a title team?

That's not a crystal ball argument. It doesn't presuppose conditions that don't exist.

[spurraider21]

Ok, so why not say Patty Mills? You didn't just pull Nash out randomly. You've established that you're a Curry homer, so your takes on it (as non-specific as they are) are tainted with that love for him, thus the invocation of Nash and Lebron, instead of two other players who aren't future HOFers.
I haven't seen Patty Mills take on a larger playmaking role or go through any sort of player development mirroring Curry's. I have observed similarities in Curry's and Nash's skill sets. Ball handling, efficient shooting, being able to create without being particularly great athletes. Both had scorer mentalities, and Nash eventually settled into a great point guard, but with that transition came increased turnovers. As Curry's playmaking role has increased over the years, so has his turnovers.

[DMC]

I haven't seen Patty Mills take on a larger playmaking role or go through any sort of player development mirroring Curry's. I have observed similarities in Curry's and Nash's skill sets. Ball handling, efficient shooting, being able to create without being particularly great athletes. Both had scorer mentalities, and Nash eventually settled into a great point guard, but with that transition came increased turnovers. As Curry's playmaking role has increased over the years, so has his turnovers.

Curry will mirror the 0 and forever.

[Shastafarian]

You're an idiot. I've pissed you off with the sweeping evidence I posted in the past that showed blacks are genetically predisposed to commit crimes. I supported it in a way that would have held up in a court of law. You're just salty about it and now you've raised a wall of ignorance to my onslaught of basketball brilliance.

Ooooo in a court of LAW? So internet GM and internet lawyer. Congrats man that's enough accomplishment for two lifetimes. Shit that supposes you have a life though...

That's not a crystal ball argument. It doesn't presuppose conditions that don't exist.It does in fact. It presupposes Curry will not improve.

[spurraider21]

More non-specific "can't pin me down" drivel. Low odds? Less than what?
Now you're just being obtuse.

[Shastafarian]

It's always unsatisfying arguing with DMC. No matter how wrong he is or how obvious it is to everyone else, he still tells himself he's really smart. Oh well.

[Shastafarian]

An internet life is just as good as the real thing right guys? Right???

[spurraider21]

It's always unsatisfying arguing with DMC. No matter how wrong he is or how obvious it is to everyone else, he still tells himself he's really smart. Oh well.
its not unsatisfying. DMC and I enjoy back and forth arguments that go nowhere. its why we always partake in them

[Shastafarian]

its not unsatisfying. DMC and I enjoy back and forth arguments that go nowhere. its why we always partake in them

Whatever floats your boat

[DMC]

An internet life is just as good as the real thing right guys? Right???

Pretending seconds in your real life aren't ticking away while you toil away on here to deny it's real is an irony that drips off your tongue.

[DMC]

Now you're just being obtuse.

Curry can win a championship as the best offensive player because...(this is your cue)

[DMC]

Philo Jr. and Philo Sr. Philo-ing the fuck out of this thread :lol

You still hoping for a Chimpionship?

[Shastafarian]

Pretending seconds in your real life aren't ticking away while you toil away on here to deny it's real is an irony that drips off your tongue.

I spend spare time here, usually during games. Can you say the same? I doubt it. But hey congrats on being an internet renaissance man. It can't be easy to earn an internet law degree and be an internet GM. Do you also have internet assistants?

[DMC]

I spend spare time here, usually during games. Can you say the same? I doubt it. But hey congrats on being an internet renaissance man. It can't be easy to earn an internet law degree and be an internet GM. Do you also have internet assistants?

Spare time in your real life. Everyone who's here is here on spare time, whether or not they should be. You just think you're somehow more real because you can lie to yourself about it.

[Shastafarian]

Spare time in your real life. Everyone who's here is here on spare time, whether or not they should be. You just think you're somehow more real because you can lie to yourself about it.
:lol then I need your secret. How do you have sooooooo much spare time? I don't have intricate (and disturbing to be honest) internet relationships so if that counts as "more real" then I'd agree with you.

[DMC]

:lol then I need your secret. How do you have sooooooo much spare time? I don't have intricate (and disturbing to be honest) internet relationships so if that counts as "more real" then I'd agree with you.

I never said I'm more real, I said you think you are. Relationships are relationships, face to face, letter, phone, internet... doesn't matter. I have so much spare time because I've positioned myself in life to be that way. I'm not fighting a shift leader for a day shift at the Gap or Taco Cabana.

[spurraider21]

Curry can win a championship as the best offensive player because...(this is your cue)
because the trajectory of his player development is headed in the right direction. He is able to put his team's offense in favorable positions by both being able to score efficiently as well as being able to set up plays to get his teammates good looks, whether they be in the post or on the perimeter. I don't think he will be able to piggy-back a team to the NBA finals like LeBron did in 2007, but rather, if given the right components can be the leader of a championship caliber team. His ability to score on his own (and efficiently) was never questioned, but his improved ability to set up teammates cannot and should not be ignored ,and one can reasonably assume he will continue to improve in this area, given his age and year to year improvements.

I think it is unfair to judge his lack of team success when his team's second best player is David Lee

[Shastafarian]

I never said I'm more real, I said you think you are. Yeah and I was agreeing based on your definitions.

Relationships are relationships, face to face, letter, phone, internet... doesn't matter. What doesn't matter? Are you saying all relationships are the same? I'm going for my internet psych degree so please answer truthfully and with as much personal exposition as possible.

I have so much spare time because I've positioned myself in life to be that way. I'm not fighting a shift leader for a day shift at the Gap or Taco Cabana.And yet you choose to spend that hard earned time online. Your own choice but don't claim it's just as real as the real world.

[Shastafarian]

Shit it's late I gotta get to bed to be ready for my shift at Taco Cabana.

[DMC]

Yeah and I was agreeing based on your definitions.
What doesn't matter? Are you saying all relationships are the same? I'm going for my internet psych degree so please answer truthfully and with as much personal exposition as possible.
And yet you choose to spend that hard earned time online. Your own choice but don't claim it's just as real as the real world.

I didn't define "more real". You're the one who insinuated that people here take internet too seriously, and it's not real life. It is real life. You're really there responding and I am really here doing the same thing. It's a copout to say it's not. When Mono hosts his radio show, those are real people who call in and talk. The site owner is a real person.

It is the real world. There are people who get paid for what they do online. That's real. You can be imprisoned for what you do online. That's real. We're not talking about some fantasy world sim, this is just a forum. We use pseudonyms but we are real people.

[spurraider21]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

[DMC]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

I don't know, I'm caught in a landslide... no escape from reality.

[sexinthatsx]

Mark Jackson was a big part of this team motivation-wise. There was a way Warriors could of handled the situation better: have Mark Jackson step down as a head coach and be an assistant coach so he can still motivate the team, and hire another coach who can actually coach...

[DMC]

If all the team needs is some fake ass black preacher for motivation, they all need to be fired.

[Spurs da champs]

Mark Jackson was a big part of this team motivation-wise. There was a way Warriors could of handled the situation better: have Mark Jackson step down as a head coach and be an assistant coach so he can still motivate the team, and hire another coach who can actually coach...

Demoting Jackson from head to assistant coach is much worse imo, especially considering his relative success as of late.

[sexinthatsx]

Demoting Jackson from head to assistant coach is much worse imo, especially considering his relative success as of late.

The media and other basketball fans alike are really overrating Mark Jackson than what he actually is... the man had no coaching experience and was a commentator. He deserved to get fired simple because he's so horrible at post-timeout plays and late game-time situations, but the players need him to continue their development. Either way, this probably hurt the Warriors more than it helped them.

[DMC]

The media and other basketball fans alike are really overrating Mark Jackson than what he actually is... the man had no coaching experience and was a commentator. He deserved to get fired simple because he's so horrible at post-timeout plays and late game-time situations, but the players need him to continue their development. Either way, this probably hurt the Warriors more than it helped them.

In the short term. If you fire your shitty lawn guy, your lawn goes neglected until you find a better one.

[Shastafarian]

I didn't define "more real". You're the one who insinuated that people here take internet too seriously, Yes, we agree.

and it's not real life. It is real life. You're really there responding and I am really here doing the same thing. It's a copout to say it's not. When Mono hosts his radio show, those are real people who call in and talk. The site owner is a real person. All true. Doesn't make THIS PLACE real in the sense it is the real world. It's not. It's a place where a pakistani kid can be black or an old racist can be...ok that one is a bad example.


It is the real world.It's not.

There are people who get paid for what they do online. That's real.People get paid for being here? Truly?

You can be imprisoned for what you do online. That's real.Consequences are real. Doesn't = this place is real life. It's not.

We're not talking about some fantasy world sim, this is just a forum.Explain the differences please.

We use pseudonyms but we are real people.Prove it.

[DMC]

Yes, we agree.
All true. Doesn't make THIS PLACE real in the sense it is the real world. It's not. It's a place where a pakistani kid can be black or an old racist can be...ok that one is a bad example.

It's not.
People get paid for being here? Truly?
Consequences are real. Doesn't = this place is real life. It's not.
Explain the differences please.
Prove it.

So if I trace you down and post your personal information here, that's cool with you because this place isn't real so no harm can be done in unreal places.

[Fabbs]

While i appreciate Jackson is hurt and thinks he did a good job....
What is up with the embellishment?

"We got beat by a team with 2 top 10 players and a Hall of Fame coach"?

Since when the f is Doc 1 title Rivers a HOF coach?
Chrissy Paul top 10 :lol
Griffin i think has potential, i might put him in top 10 due to his athleticism.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He's a poor coach in all the ways that matter, but he doesn't deserve to be fired for this season. The Warriors put up a great performance against the Clippers given that they had no centers. The owner was stupid for having a championship or bust mentality when their best players can be completely erased by Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard. They were never making it out of the West.

Except the part of getting NBA to buy in and give 100% effort. Sure there are a few guys who are true innovators like Carlisle, Thibodeau and Spoelstra but for the most part what you guys see as some sort of savante is really a guy that can understand and piggy back off of the X's and O's of others. Those are a hell of a lot easier to find than someone that can inspire the rank and file of the NBA.

[Jacob1983]

2 playoff appearances and a 2nd round appearance are pretty good for a 3 year stretch.

[Shastafarian]

So if I trace you down and post your personal information here, that's cool with you because this place isn't real so no harm can be done in unreal places.

Quite the opposite and you clearly don't understand what I'm saying. This place isn't the real world. It certainly exists. But it not being the real world means I don't want my personal information posted. Is that hard to understand? But hey, I enjoy a stalker as much as the next guy :lol

I'll say this. You are good at steering arguments you know you can't win. Never got your opinion on the best player on the 2011 Mavs other than "it wasn't a PG".

[ambchang]

This is what happens when you cannot upwards manage.

Nobody pays $450M so that they can cower with fear of their employees. You don't listen, or at least consider, the suggestions of the person who signs your paycheques, you are gone, no matter how talented you are.

To top it off, he's not that talented as a coach to begin with.

The direct opposite is Isiah Thomas, he lasted a long time as a GM/coach despite clear evidence that he is incompetent in either jobs, because he built a strong relationship with upper management.

This lesson applies in real life too.

[DMC]

Quite the opposite and you clearly don't understand what I'm saying. This place isn't the real world. It certainly exists. But it not being the real world means I don't want my personal information posted. Is that hard to understand? But hey, I enjoy a stalker as much as the next guy :lol

I'll say this. You are good at steering arguments you know you can't win. Never got your opinion on the best player on the 2011 Mavs other than "it wasn't a PG".


It's a stupid question. Unlike you, I cannot be steered.

[Shastafarian]

Why is it a stupid question?

[The Reckoning]

and people were predicting golden state to go to the WCF this season :lol