if you had to pick 1 player to build around for the next 10 years

[King Emmanuel]

who would it be

[djohn2oo8]

LeBron

[MeloHype]

Anthony Davis

[spurraider21]

Davis. 10 years is a LONG time

[Clipper Nation]

Any of them except Durbeta is fine by me, tbh....

[Katherine Robinson]

Anthony Davis is the obvious choice, although Blake Griffin would also be a good centerpiece for a 1-2 round team. Lebron is more of a five year plan player at his age and Durant is a supportive piece -not somebody you build around.

[spursfan1000]

Roy Hibbert tbh

[Darth_Pelican]

AD

[lil_penny]

Greg oden

[baseline bum]

LOL anyone picking Davis over LeBron. Yeah, I'll take 10 years of being a mid-level playoff team over 5 of being title favorites. :lol

[Blake]

Lebron and it's not close.

Griffin will blow a knee in 5 years or less, imo.

[manufan10]

LeBron.

[Clipper Nation]

Lebron and it's not close.

Griffin will blow a knee in 5 years or less, imo.

Spurfan begging for injuries, not a surprise imho....

[baseline bum]

Spurfan begging for injuries, not a surprise imho....

Why would Spursfan want Griffin to blow out his knee in the next 5 years, when the Spurs will be playing for lottery balls from 2015 on?

[spurraider21]

Spurfan begging for injuries, not a surprise imho....
Your standards for what constitutes begging is as shitty as your standards for meltdowns

[spurraider21]

LOL anyone picking Davis over LeBron. Yeah, I'll take 10 years of being a mid-level playoff team over 5 of being title favorites. :lol
Lol at making the same mistakes the angels made by
giving Pujols a 10 year deal

[Clipper Nation]

Your standards for what constitutes begging is as shitty as your standards for meltdowns

Your standards for Philo-ing are consistent, any reply to your posts initiates it :lol

[sexinthatsx]

Anthony Davis is the obvious one on that list, but if I had a choice, Damian Lillard.

[Beaverfuzz]

Easily Chris Kaman.

[hater]

Lol anyone picking Lebron. Nigga would bolt to a superfriends team halfway through that decade :lmao

Id pick Lillard or Wall tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

Lol anyone picking Lebron. Nigga would bolt to a superfriends team halfway through that decade :lmao

Id pick Lillard or Wall tbh.
:lol Implying Cleveland actually built around LeBron as opposed to just milking him for ticket/merch $$$$

[Baam]

Griffin doesn't belong on that poll tbh...

[hater]

:lol Implying Cleveland actually built around LeBron as opposed to just milking him for ticket/merch $$$$

They tried. And I honestly believe you would not fare better. So reconsider your choice nigga :lmao

[Chinook]

How is this even a discussion? Davis is going to be the best player in the league very soon and won't relinquish that title until his third or fourth contract.

[DMC]

Lebron James. If I get 4 rings out of 10 years that will be much better than 0 rings with a more youthful player like Davis. Fuck the waning years, it's about now.

[DMC]

Lol anyone picking Lebron. Nigga would bolt to a superfriends team halfway through that decade :lmao

Id pick Lillard or Wall tbh.

There are a shit ton of caveats that aren't mentioned. Prima facie.. you have to take Lebron. He's the best player in the league RIGHT NOW. A bird in the hand and all that.

[DAF86]

Durant.

[hater]

There are a shit ton of caveats that aren't mentioned. Prima facie.. you have to take Lebron. He's the best player in the league RIGHT NOW. A bird in the hand and all that.

disagree. IT's not a caveat, it's a fact. The most important thing if you pick Lebron would be to keep him happy, that would have to go over your goal of winning it all. Imho, you MIGHT be successful at keeping him happy for 10 years, but no way you achieve both goals of keeping him happy and winning it all tbh. Lord knows Lebron needed not only being happy, but having a top 10 bigman, a top 5 guard and the best shooter in history to get it done.

Sorry you probably would have better chances picking a team-first guy IMO

[DMC]

disagree. IT's not a caveat, it's a fact. The most important thing if you pick Lebron would be to keep him happy, that would have to go over your goal of winning it all. Imho, you MIGHT be successful at keeping him happy for 10 years, but no way you achieve both goals of keeping him happy and winning it all tbh. Lord knows Lebron needed not only being happy, but having a top 10 bigman, a top 5 guard and the best shooter in history to get it done.

Sorry you probably would have better chances picking a team-first guy IMO

It's not a fucking fact. You don't know the future so it's a caveat.. it might happen. Davis could do the same thing. Maybe you don't know what the term "caveat" means. You don't have to build around Lebron with rookies or shitty players. They didn't do that in Miami. You could bring in other big talent (like Davis) and you'd be a monster. If I was going to have a pick of one player, I'd want the best one on the planet. Anything else is betting on an unproven horse and yes, there are a shit ton of caveats in any hypothetical that's only a couple sentences long.

[hater]

It's not a fucking fact. You don't know the future so it's a caveat.. it might happen. Davis could do the same thing. Maybe you don't know what the term "caveat" means. You don't have to build around Lebron with rookies or shitty players. They didn't do that in Miami. You could bring in other big talent (like Davis) and you'd be a monster. If I was going to have a pick of one player, I'd want the best one on the planet. Anything else is betting on an unproven horse and yes, there are a shit ton of caveats in any hypothetical that's only a couple sentences long.

it is a fucking fact homie. You cannot ignore the fact that Lebron is got the highest maintenance in the league and would bolt in a minute if not happy. THAT IS A FACT that cannot be ignored.

no. disagree, not only would you need to bring in the right players, You would need the right players that will help Lebron be happy and same thing with coaching staff. You basically would need to make the nig happy first and foremost.

or do you think Lebron would still be in OKC if he was in Durant's place? :lol

[Robz4000]

Davis. Lebron would be a solid choice but if I were a GM for, say, the Lakers I'd take Davis. Much easier to build a team around a big than a wing imo.

[Blake]

How is this even a discussion? Davis is going to be the best player in the league very soon and won't relinquish that title until his third or fourth contract.

Define "soon"

[DMC]

it is a fucking fact homie. You cannot ignore the fact that Lebron is got the highest maintenance in the league and would bolt in a minute if not happy. THAT IS A FACT that cannot be ignored.

Lebron left at the end of his contract because he wanted to win championships. He played for less money. We sit here and say that a real nigga would go play for less money if he gave a shit about winning a ring, and Lebron does it and now you said he's high maintenance. He's not even the highest paid player in the league. He's taken his team to 3 consecutive Finals, and been to 4 in total all because of what HE does. If he was high maintenance, he'd be a max contract asshole like Kobe, be riding the pine with a fucking knee brace and be tweeting about how shitty the coach is or crying to the media about wanting to be traded because he missed the playoffs. He never bolted on a contract, never stirred trade controversy by throwing his coach under a bus. You're just insanely salty at the dude.


no. disagree, not only would you need to bring in the right players, You would need the right players that will help Lebron be happy and same thing with coaching staff. You basically would need to make the nig happy first and foremost.

If Lebron can play that long with Mo fucking Williams, he can do just fine with the talent that would flock to his team for less pay (like he did). You acting like he's got a history of being a rabble rouser is hilarious.


or do you think Lebron would still be in OKC if he was in Durant's place? :lol
OKC would have won a couple rings by now if they had Lebron instead of that beta cuck chucker Durant.

[Chinook]

Define "soon"

Probably when Lebron gives up the mantle. That could happen after next year if James gets shut out of titles until then. Davis is already clearly third right now, and he just need to put together a healthy season or two in order to jump Durant, especially if KD doesn't get a title in that span.

[HemisfairArena]

Drummond

[Blake]

Spurfan begging for injuries, not a surprise imho....

Griff's game is based mostly on his ability to jump out of the gym. sooner or later, the landing takes it's toll.

Most super jumpers have short shelf lives. Is what it is.

[Blake]

Probably when Lebron gives up the mantle. That could happen after next year if James gets shut out of titles until then. Davis is already clearly third right now, and he just need to put together a healthy season or two in order to jump Durant, especially if KD doesn't get a title in that span.

Lol lebron giving up the mantle after next year.

even so, I can think of 3-4 other players that would scoop up that mantle before Davis.

[Chinook]

Lol lebron giving up the mantle after next year.

even so, I can think of 3-4 other players that would scoop up that mantle before Davis.

Who besides KD?

[Clipper Nation]

Griff's game is based mostly on his ability to jump out of the gym. sooner or later, the landing takes it's toll.

Most super jumpers have short shelf lives. Is what it is.
You literally haven't watched him play this season :lol

[BermudaSooner]

2014's MVP. I'd pick him, not once, not twice, not three time, not four times, not five times...

[spurraider21]

You literally haven't watched him play this season :lol
yeah its the same shit phillip was saying. anybody that still thinks that about blake clearly just doesn't watch games and instead reads bleacher report comment sections for analysis

[mercos]

Davis. Lebron would be a solid choice but if I were a GM for, say, the Lakers I'd take Davis. Much easier to build a team around a big than a wing imo.

This. Elite centers are already rare, and that trend is likely to continue for the foreseeable future. Barring injury, Davis should be MVP in the next few seasons.

[Mugen]

I'd go with Durant tbh.

[sexinthatsx]

In part, I think a lot has to do with not only the 1 player you pick to build your team around, but the role players. If you have crappier role players, I'd pick LBJ. If you have a really solid PG and SG, then I'd pick Davis.

[Double-Up]

LOL anyone picking Davis over LeBron. Yeah, I'll take 10 years of being a mid-level playoff team over 5 of being title favorites. :lol

Tell that to the Cavs...

[spurraider21]

a) LeBron from age 29-38
b) Durant from 25-34
c) Davis from 21-30
d) Griffin from 25-34

It's gotta be between Durant and Davis... everyone saying "fuck the last 5 years" is basically blatantly ignoring the question in OP

[Blake]

You literally haven't watched him play this season :lol

I admit, I missed this:

QC1Ib11JyvM

[spurraider21]

I admit, I missed this:

QC1Ib11JyvM
i can find highlights on duncan dunking a lot and say he's only good because he dunks

[Clipper Nation]

I admit, I missed this:

QC1Ib11JyvM
You also missed this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxvZmPcKaU

[SpurSwag]

Not really understanding any answer besides KD, the only acceptable response I'll take is perhaps you wouldn't want a 35 year old KD but i'd still argue that he will be a top 5 player at that age too. There's no reason his game shouldn't age well, and I'm assuming the dude will work on some type of post game in the coming years too.

You can say whatever you want about his personality, but it's gonna get to a point like it did with LeBron where he is simply too talented as a player to be denied anymore, and that day isn't far off imo. Give me him for the next 10 years and I like my chances of coming away with at least 2 rings

[SpurSwag]

Though if not KD i'd definitely take Anthony Davis, if he stays healthy that man is gonna be a real force for a long time

[PingPong]

Depends on what you want. If you want to make profits, take Le Bron. I don't think Davis is marketable as Le Bron. If you want to build a solid team and win several titles, get Davis and Wall and build around them. Probably none of them will sell tons of jerseys, but they can win some titles. Le Bron probably will get one ou two more until he blows a knee or something else.

[HemisfairArena]

For me it is 1 and 1a between Drummond and Davis. I prefer Drummond but both are the type of players you build around for the next 10 years. They are gonna dominate in the paint like we haven't seen since Hakeem and Shaq as far as centers go.

[TDMVPDPOY]

davis can anchor a defense, but can he anchor the offense?

i think he needs an alpha player to play with....

[spurraider21]

davis can anchor a defense, but can he anchor the offense?

i think he needs an alpha player to play with....
he's just 21 years old and came off a season where he averaged 21 ppg on 52% shooting. age wise this would have been his junior year in college. he has a lot of room to grow and his game has already massively improved from year 1

it should also be noted that LeBron's teams didn't make the playoffs in his first 2 seasons either

[baseline bum]

Tell that to the Cavs...

Fuck them. Not James' fault their management was historically bad and the two best players they could put next to him were Mo Williams and Sideshow Bob.

[oh crap]

durant

[Blake]

i can find highlights on duncan dunking a lot and say he's only good because he dunks

how many can you find where Duncan dunks from above the rim.

[spurraider21]

how many can you find where Duncan dunks from above the rim.
i fail to see how that's relevant. a dunk is a dunk. a video showing that blake can dunk from high up doesn't prove that he is dependent on such to be successful

[Blake]

Who besides KD?

Ftr, if both KD and LJ are out, nobody gets the mantle, imo.

But I'd take Aldridge, Griffin, Paul and if Phil straightens him out, Carmelo as mantle carriers over Davis

[Blake]

i fail to see how that's relevant. a dunk is a dunk. a video showing that blake can dunk from high up doesn't prove that he is dependent on such to be successful

You lost track of the original notion.

[spurraider21]

You lost track of the original notion.
no i haven't. its laid out right here


Griff's game is based mostly on his ability to jump out of the gym

[Blake]

no i haven't. its laid out right here

Which was a statement based on my original notion that he's going to blow a knee out.

[Clipper Nation]

Which was a statement based on my original notion that he's going to blow a knee out.
It's a statement that isn't grounded in the facts of how he actually plays the game :lol

[Blake]

It's a statement that isn't grounded in the facts of how he actually plays the game :lol

K, so what would you say is the biggest reason that griff scores 24 per game

Also, I haven't looked.....did he lead the NBA in dunks again? What is that, like five times now?

[spurraider21]

K, so what would you say is the biggest reason that griff scores 24 per game

Also, I haven't looked.....did he lead the NBA in dunks again? What is that, like five times now?
If you don't watch Clippers games regularly, just say so, instead of putting on this stupid facade

[Franklin]

The Great Satan Lebron probably has no more than 3 good years left in him, tbh.

[UNCLE-DREW]

The Great Satan Lebron probably has no more than 3 good years left in him, tbh.

Yeah because he didn't developed range in his J's and didnt build on his Postgame right.

a 75% Lebron from now still shits on everyone besides KD

answers like Davis baring injuries are so fucking stupid. the only logical pick would be KD if the timespan is 10 years
24-34 from a proven player like KD shits on the picks like a yet to be proven Davis or who ever the fuck else.

[Killakobe81]

LeBron has maybe 3-4 prime years left. I take KD and I wait out the end of his reign. He won't win next year. And I doubt he rangs more than twice after ...like Kobe and Magic, he will probably get stuck on 5 behind MJ ...he will still have a Goat argument, but no way you win 4, or even 3,over 10 years. My guess is Kd wins more games over next 10 years and both win a similar number of rings.
I love Davis but he seems more injury prone than Blake tbh

[Blake]

If you don't watch Clippers games regularly, just say so, instead of putting on this stupid facade

I don't, that's why I'm asking questions to a clipper fan. It seems to me that Griffin jumps higher than everyone else when taking shots, grabbing rebounds and blocking shots.

All the scouting reports during the draft confirm that he scored on sheer athletic ability. If that has changed that dramatically, feel free to prove it. If not, then my perception remains and in my opinion, he'll go Amare Stoudemire and blow a knee or two.

[Captivus]

Lebron doesnt make sense, because you have to "build around", meaning theres no one else on the team that can help NOW. Building around takes a few years.
I would go with Damian or Davis.

[Leetonidas]

Give me the unibrow going forward tbh dude is gonna be a beast and a player like him would be easier to build around than anyone for the next 10 years

[DMC]

Lebron doesnt make sense, because you have to "build around", meaning theres no one else on the team that can help NOW. Building around takes a few years.
I would go with Damian or Davis.

No it doesn't. No team starts off with one guy. I could put Lebron on the 76ers next year and make it to the WCF. There's a difference between rebuilding from ground up and having a star player to add pieces around. You could build around Davis and maybe never see the semifinals. You build around Lebron you get at least 2 or 3 shots at a ring. People think what they will look like in 10 years, but it doesn't mean that you are building on a 10 year plan. If you could sign a player to a 10 year contract and you took anyone besides Lebron right now, you'd be a fool. The talent would come if Lebron was there. Davis is great, but he's not made a name for himself yet and getting a championship level team with a guy who knows how to get there is hard. Your focal point should be that guy.

[Blake]

Lol it's crazy how many people are picking an unknown over a sure thing.

[Clipper Nation]

I don't, that's why I'm asking questions to a clipper fan. It seems to me that Griffin jumps higher than everyone else when taking shots, grabbing rebounds and blocking shots.

All the scouting reports during the draft confirm that he scored on sheer athletic ability. If that has changed that dramatically, feel free to prove it. If not, then my perception remains and in my opinion, he'll go Amare Stoudemire and blow a knee or two.

:lmao Thinking that scouting reports from the 2009 draft accurately describe how Blake plays now

He's not just athleticism anymore, tbh.... his midrange game has come a long way, he has an effective but unconventional post game, he has handles that nobody his size has any business having, and he is also a very good passer for his position.... he's a smart guy, he knows he won't always be able to jump out the gym, so he's put a ton of work into his overall offensive game, tbh....

[spurraider21]

:lol Blake

If you want proof try watching some games. No YouTube video is goin to prove how a player's game has changed

[spurraider21]

Lol it's crazy how many people are picking an unknown over a sure thing.
It's similar to the Luck/Manning question. Of course Lebron isn't as old, and the injury situation isn't the same, but we are talking about the next decade, not the next 3-4 years

[Captivus]

No it doesn't. No team starts off with one guy. I could put Lebron on the 76ers next year and make it to the WCF. There's a difference between rebuilding from ground up and having a star player to add pieces around. You could build around Davis and maybe never see the semifinals. You build around Lebron you get at least 2 or 3 shots at a ring. People think what they will look like in 10 years, but it doesn't mean that you are building on a 10 year plan. If you could sign a player to a 10 year contract and you took anyone besides Lebron right now, you'd be a fool. The talent would come if Lebron was there. Davis is great, but he's not made a name for himself yet and getting a championship level team with a guy who knows how to get there is hard. Your focal point should be that guy.

If you put Lebron on a team and you get to the WCF the same year...you are not "building around". Lebron in Cleveland was a building around moment (didnt work, but thats another story).
I choose Damian, because Im assuming theres no one else and is going to take me 2-3 years to get a competitive team, but that time, I assume Damian is more important than Lebron, since I have 7 years to get a ring.

At the end...I understand what you are saying, Im not crazy, I know how hard it is to get to the finals and win it. Lebron can do it.

[DMC]

If you put Lebron on a team and you get to the WCF the same year...you are not "building around". Lebron in Cleveland was a building around moment (didnt work, but thats another story).
I choose Damian, because Im assuming theres no one else and is going to take me 2-3 years to get a competitive team, but that time, I assume Damian is more important than Lebron, since I have 7 years to get a ring.

At the end...I understand what you are saying, Im not crazy, I know how hard it is to get to the finals and win it. Lebron can do it.

You misunderstand the term "building around". It doesn't mean everyone except Lebron left the team. It means Lebron is your focal point and your add pieces to get where you need to be. It doesn't mean you suck ass in the 1st few years. Building around someone isn't the same as rebuilding a team.

Do you not think they built around Lebron in Miami? How about in Cleveland? Did they build around Tim Duncan in San Antonio? How's that possible since David Robinson was there and so was Avery Johnson, Sean Elliott?

Building around /= rebuilding


lol @ "didn't work". I guess you don't understand what it means to be successful. Did you see their record while he was there? Do you think anything short of a ring is failure, and if so, how come the Spurs are considered successful when they haven't won since 2007?

[Blake]

:lmao Thinking that scouting reports from the 2009 draft accurately describe how Blake plays now

He's not just athleticism anymore, tbh.... his midrange game has come a long way, he has an effective but unconventional post game, he has handles that nobody his size has any business having, and he is also a very good passer for his position.... he's a smart guy, he knows he won't always be able to jump out the gym, so he's put a ton of work into his overall offensive game, tbh....

So did he lead the league in dunks again or not?

[Blake]

:lol Blake

If you want proof try watching some games.

sure, this way when I come back with the same opinion that his game is predicated on him being more athletic than everyone else, you'll have no retort, right?

[Captivus]

You misunderstand the term "building around". It doesn't mean everyone except Lebron left the team. It means Lebron is your focal point and your add pieces to get where you need to be. It doesn't mean you suck ass in the 1st few years. Building around someone isn't the same as rebuilding a team.

Do you not think they built around Lebron in Miami? How about in Cleveland? Did they build around Tim Duncan in San Antonio? How's that possible since David Robinson was there and so was Avery Johnson, Sean Elliott?

Building around /= rebuilding


lol @ "didn't work". I guess you don't understand what it means to be successful. Did you see their record while he was there? Do you think anything short of a ring is failure, and if so, how come the Spurs are considered successful when they haven't won since 2007?

The didnt work was because he left, not because he didnt ring.
But ok, I get what you are saying, In my mind, building around was rebuilding.

[Clipper Nation]

So did he lead the league in dunks again or not?
Why does it matter if he did? Dunks are only one part of his game....

Not that it matters, because you're clearly Philo-ing it up and won't change your opinion no matter how much evidence is given to the contrary :lol

[DMC]

The didnt work was because he left, not because he didnt ring.
But ok, I get what you are saying, In my mind, building around was rebuilding.

I think a lot of people are making the equivocation between rebuilding and building around, or they are seeing the OP as asking "which player will be better in 10 years?". That's obviously going to be Davis just because Lebron will be retired by then. If you were asked "which player has the potential to affect the most championship drives in the next 10 years" though, it might be Lebron.

[Captivus]

I think a lot of people are making the equivocation between rebuilding and building around, or they are seeing the OP as asking "which player will be better in 10 years?". That's obviously going to be Davis just because Lebron will be retired by then. If you were asked "which player has the potential to affect the most championship drives in the next 10 years" though, it might be Lebron.

Agree. Thread solved.

[spurraider21]

sure, this way when I come back with the same opinion that his game is predicated on him being more athletic than everyone else, you'll have no retort, right?
If that is still your opinion after watching him play extensively, id be surprised. More likely is that you won't actually watch, but you will come back and say you did just to make a point

[spurraider21]

Lebron is undeniably the easiest player to build around, and if this question was referring to the next 4 years id answer differently

[Blake]

Why does it matter if he did? Dunks are only one part of his game....

Not that it matters, because you're clearly Philo-ing it up and won't change your opinion no matter how much evidence is given to the contrary :lol

well sure, dunks are just part of the total times he jumps at maximum height per game. Was just curious.

and since you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary, my perception that his game is based on being a super jumper stands.

Just a matter of time before he Derrick Roses his knees, imo.

[Clipper Nation]

well sure, dunks are just part of the total times he jumps at maximum height per game. Was just curious.

and since you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary, my perception that his game is based on being a super jumper stands.

Just a matter of time before he Derrick Roses his knees, imo.
This take is literally so awful, not even Skip Bayless would come up with it.... you're better than this :lol

[Blake]

If that is still your opinion after watching him play extensively, id be surprised. More likely is that you won't actually watch, but you will come back and say you did just to make a point

Which is why I'd never tell anyone to simply watch a game.

You haven't even told me what to look for. Am I supposed to count how often he doesn't jump?

[Blake]

This take is literally so awful, not even Skip Bayless would come up with it.... you're better than this :lol

The "this take is awful because I say it is" line is jeebotard weak. You should be ashamed.

[spurraider21]

Which is why I'd never tell anyone to simply watch a game.

You haven't even told me what to look for. Am I supposed to count how often he doesn't jump?
If you are uneducated on the topic (by not havin watched griffin extensively this season), then your opinion simply doesn't carry weight. I didn't tell you to simply watch a game. Watch him play over a period of time, several games, to get a better feel for his game. There is no better way to learn about a player than to watch him play, instead of checking box score figures or watching nba.com recaps.

im not a clipper fan or a big griffin fan, but they're local here so I watch most of their games, and I would be retarded if I didn't notice how much his game has changed. His midrange game has gotten better and his turnaround bank shot is something all spurs fans would enjoy seeing. His back to the basket game isn't perfect from a technical standpoint yet, but he's able to score from either side off either foot. His transition game is still remarkable and is what lands on highlight reels, but to say he's effective purely on his ability to jump out of the gym is just wrong

[Blake]

If you are uneducated on the topic (by not havin watched griffin extensively this season), then your opinion simply doesn't carry weight. I didn't tell you to simply watch a game. Watch him play over a period of time, several games, to get a better feel for his game. There is no better way to learn about a player than to watch him play, instead of checking box score figures or watching nba.com recaps.

:cry just watch a sunrise to see that God is real

[spurraider21]

:cry just watch a sunrise to see that God is real
Is this seriously what you are resortin to in a basketball discussion? Grow up.

But if you want to go there, fine. Saying you don't watch griffin play, yet holding such an adamant opinion about what makes him a good player is akin to robdiazz being vehemently opposed to evolution without even understanding the core concepts of natural selection

[Blake]

Is this seriously what you are resortin to in a basketball discussion? Grow up

Meh. I don't have much patience for people pushing opinion as fact.

[spurraider21]

Meh. I don't have much patience for people pushing opinion as fact.
Coming from a guy who is claiming Griffin will blow out his knee as fact, that's rich. If you don't want to have an adult discussion, go to the club and start one of your arguments with xmas

[DMC]

Lebron is undeniably the easiest player to build around, and if this question was referring to the next 4 years id answer differently

The next 4 years are part of the next 10 years. No franchise has a 5 year plan.

[Blake]

Coming from a guy who is claiming Griffin will blow out his knee as fact, that's rich.

I sure didn't.

[Chinook]

It's not even a matter of watching Blake play. Looking at his stats show that his game is evolving. Griffin actually had a lower percentage of dunks this year than he had in any previous season of his career. He's barely dunked at all in these playoffs so far. He took a lot of outside jump shots and made a decent, but not yet good enough percentage of low twos. The corner three seems to be a legitimate part of his game now. Honestly, Griffin seems set up to age pretty well, since it's clear he's becoming more skilled as time goes on.

[spurraider21]

I sure didn't.
Alright you did add the IMO at the end of that post.

But focusing on the actual argument at hand, I don't understand why you are so strongly opinionated on a matter which you admittedly don't know much about (by nature of not actually watching clippers games)

[spurraider21]

The next 4 years are part of the next 10 years. No franchise has a 5 year plan.
Of course they don't in actuality. But this thread is specifically asking about a 10 year plan

[Chinook]

Personally, I think Davis is the easiest to build around in a vacuum. Cleveland showed how hard it is to put a title team around James. The Heatles getting together is not something I think is repeatable, and it's crazy how much James had needed Wade and Bosh to step up. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is the best player to have ever lived. But he's still a small-forward. Durant will be in his post-prime in 10 years, which is perfectly acceptable. But he's even harder to build around than James, since Lebron is a tremendous two-way player who can both play and guard all five positions. Durant may have to luck into a good situation like Dirk and Allen did.

Davis is a 20/10 guy who looks like he could anchor an elite defense, and most people agree that he's no where near his prime yet. That's scary. I think it's easier to build around him because he can already effect the game so much without having to dominate the ball. As soon as the Pelicans start bringing in championship-caliber role-players instead of handing out huge deals to other teams' cast-offs, they'll surge in the standings.

[Blake]

Alright you did add the IMO at the end of that post.

But focusing on the actual argument at hand, I don't understand why you are so strongly opinionated on a matter which you admittedly don't know much about (by nature of not actually watching clippers games)

Strongly is such a strong word.

If I really cared about it, I'd do some extensive research to ease my mind so I could sleep at night.

As it is, if you guys don't want to provide evidence to the contrary, then I'm content to sit on my prediction that Griff will one day land wrong and blow a knee cap out into the 10th row of staples.

[Chinook]

Strongly is such a strong word.

If I really cared about it, I'd do some extensive research to ease my mind so I could sleep at night.

As it is, if you guys don't want to provide evidence to the contrary, then I'm content to sit on my prediction that Griff will one day land wrong and blow a knee cap out into the 10th row of staples.

Wait, that's the argument? Who the hell knows who's going to blow out a knee sometime in the future. It happens to players all the time, even ones that don't use their athleticism nearly as much as Griffin. I thought the debate was about whether Griffin could still be a high-end player without his leaping ability. That has a good deal of evidence to suggest he can.

[Blake]

Personally, I think Davis is the easiest to build around in a vacuum. Cleveland showed how hard it is to put a title team around James. The Heatles getting together is not something I think is repeatable, and it's crazy how much James had needed Wade and Bosh to step up. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is the best player to have ever lived. But he's still a small-forward. Durant will be in his post-prime in 10 years, which is perfectly acceptable. But he's even harder to build around than James, since Lebron is a tremendous two-way player who can both play and guard all five positions. Durant may have to luck into a good situation like Dirk and Allen did.

Davis is a 20/10 guy who looks like he could anchor an elite defense, and most people agree that he's no where near his prime yet. That's scary. I think it's easier to build around him because he can already effect the game so much without having to dominate the ball. As soon as the Pelicans start bringing in championship-caliber role-players instead of handing out huge deals to other teams' cast-offs, they'll surge in the standings.

Davis reminds me of Admiral. He'll definitely need a complimentary all star. Lebron has proven he doesn't.

I'd definitely rather have 5 years of potentially the greatest player of all time in his prime rather than 10 years of a guy whose ceiling is to be David Robinson.

In my opinion.

[Chinook]

Davis reminds me of Admiral. He'll definitely need a complimentary all star. Lebron has proven he doesn't.

I'd definitely rather have 5 years of potentially the greatest player of all time in his prime rather than 10 years of a guy whose ceiling is to be David Robinson.

In my opinion.

When in the world did Lebron prove he doesn't need a star? Was it when the Spurs swept him in 07? Because since then, he's had two All-Stars next to him, with both Wade and Bosh making huge plays to give him the rings. No question in my mind Lebron is the greatest player to ever play, but it's as clear to me that he can't get it done unless he has a superstar also playing at a high level. He's not like Duncan who won titles with two completely different supporting casts and almost won another with a third.

[Blake]

Wait, that's the argument? Who the hell knows who's going to blow out a knee sometime in the future. It happens to players all the time, even ones that don't use their athleticism nearly as much as Griffin.

Sure, but the probability for blow out has to be higher for players that rely on their explosiveness in getting above the rim.


I thought the debate was about whether Griffin could still be a high-end player without his leaping ability. That has a good deal of evidence to suggest he can.

well what's he waiting for then?

[Blake]

When in the world did Lebron prove he doesn't need a star? Was it when the Spurs swept him in 07?

Yes


because since then, he's had two All-Stars next to him, with both Wade and Bosh making huge plays to give him the rings. No question in my mind Lebron is the greatest player to ever play, but it's as clear to me that he can't get it done unless he has a superstar also playing at a high level. He's not like Duncan who won titles with two completely different supporting casts and almost won another with a third.

right, as soon as he got nice all star level players, he won the titles.

It remains to be seen what Davis will do if he gets all stars next to him.

[Chinook]

Sure, but the probability for blow out has to be higher for players that rely on their explosiveness in getting above the rim.

Sure, but look at Duncan. He has pretty much the same injury Westbrook had, and he didn't use his athleticism like Russ does at all.


well what's he waiting for then?

He's not. That's what people have been saying. He dunked at a career-low rate this year, while his shooting range has expanded, to the point where he's only dunked 11 times out of 143 field-goal attempts in the playoffs. Despite moving further outside the paint, his TS% was also at a career high. His ball-handling is awesome for his position. He shot 44 percent from the corner three this season.

[Clipper Nation]

Sure, but look at Duncan. He has pretty much the same injury Westbrook had, and he didn't use his athleticism like Russ does at all.



He's not. That's what people have been saying. He dunked at a career-low rate this year, while his shooting range has expanded, to the point where he's only dunked 11 times out of 143 field-goal attempts in the playoffs. Despite moving further outside the paint, his TS% was also at a career high. His ball-handling is awesome for his position. He shot 44 percent from the corner three this season.
In before :cry "but he dunks and jumps high = automatic injury!" :cry

[Chinook]

Yes

Allen Iverson and Reggie Miller made it to the finals one year. Jason Kidd made it twice as the main guy. I don't think simply getting there is a sign that a player can really carry a team all the way.


right, as soon as he got nice all star level players, he won the titles.

It remains to be seen what Davis will do if he gets all stars next to him.

In my opinion, a team simply can't hope that they can pull off a Miami and sign bring in two All-Stars to pair with James so that he can win a title, in the same away that a team can't just hope that another team will just gift them a HoFer like the Grizzlies did with Pau. I just don't see that as a viable strategy to build a team. With Davis, all he needs is an Indiana-style supporting cast, which the Pacers accumulated without having any high picks. He doesn't need superstars next to him. He just needs an All-Star and some strong veteran role-players. That the Pelicans were one of the league's youngest teams was a great disservice to their best player.

[Blake]

Sure, but look at Duncan. He has pretty much the same injury Westbrook had, and he didn't use his athleticism like Russ does at all.

who's saying that players with little to no vertical won't get a blow out?

Westbrook getting injured just adds another to the list of purely explosive players going down.



He's not. That's what people have been saying. He dunked at a career-low rate this year, while his shooting range has expanded, to the point where he's only dunked 11 times out of 143 field-goal attempts in the playoffs. Despite moving further outside the paint, his TS% was also at a career high. His ball-handling is awesome for his position. He shot 44 percent from the corner three this season.

Thanks for providing some stats. Sounds like his probability of blow out is going down a bit.

.....but I still think it's a high enough probability that I'd rather go with Lebron.

[Blake]

In before :cry "but he dunks and jumps high = automatic injury!" :cry

ah, if I was going to say that you would have beat me to it. kudos.

[Blake]

Allen Iverson and Reggie Miller made it to the finals one year. Jason Kidd made it twice as the main guy. I don't think simply getting there is a sign that a player can really carry a team all the way.


AI put that team square on his back and dragged them to the Finals. One of the most impressive playoff feats I've ever seen in sports.


With Davis, all he needs is an Indiana-style supporting cast, which the Pacers accumulated without having any high picks. He doesn't need superstars next to him. He just needs an All-Star and some strong veteran role-players. That the Pelicans were one of the league's youngest teams was a great disservice to their best player.

If Davis will probably command max money. If they bring in another all star, there's no way he'll be able to have a Pacer like team built around him.

[spurraider21]

Based on your logic Lebron is very prone for a blowout too. I guess you can scratch him off your list since he's a very explosive athlete

[Blake]

Based on your logic Lebron is very prone for a blowout too. I guess you can scratch him off your list since he's a very explosive athlete

Of course he could blow a knee just the same. Anyone can.

But LJ's game is so rounded, he doesn't have to rely on his explosiveness like Griff. LJ's outside shot and perimeter game is legit. He doesn't have to bang down low with big men nearly as often.

The probability of blowout still is way higher with Griff. Imo.

And I'd rather take an injury risk to LJ, even if it meant losing a year, than to take Davis.

[Aztecfan03]

Yes



right, as soon as he got nice all star level players, he won the titles.

It remains to be seen what Davis will do if he gets all stars next to him.

Wow. you are all over the place.

[Chinook]

AI put that team square on his back and dragged them to the Finals. One of the most impressive playoff feats I've ever seen in sports.

Yeah, and he still wasn't a good building block for a title team.


If Davis will probably command max money. If they bring in another all star, there's no way he'll be able to have a Pacer like team built around him.

I dunno where you're getting that from. Davis is almost certainly going to get the same extension George has now (and doesn't deserve). Hibbert is making the max now. West is almost making the max for people in Davis' age bracket. Hill is massively overpaid. There's plenty of financial wiggle room for the Pelicans to add a Pacers-like team, especially considering they only needed to sign on member of their core. Indiana drafted George and Stephs:loln and traded for Hill. They signed West with their remaining cap space while everyone but Hibbert was still on their rookie deals. I can see no reason why the Pelicans couldn't do that no matter how much money Davis made.

[Blake]

Yeah, and he still wasn't a good building block for a title team.


ok.

Did anyone say he was or are you just thinking out loud?



I dunno where you're getting that from. Davis is almost certainly going to get the same extension George has now (and doesn't deserve). Hibbert is making the max now. West is almost making the max for people in Davis' age bracket. Hill is massively overpaid. There's plenty of financial wiggle room for the Pelicans to add a Pacers-like team, especially considering they only needed to sign on member of their core. Indiana drafted George and Stephs:loln and traded for Hill. They signed West with their remaining cap space while everyone but Hibbert was still on their rookie deals. I can see no reason why the Pelicans couldn't do that no matter how much money Davis made.

I guess if they can keep his salary somewhere in the $15 million range, it's possible.

But if he blows up like you say he will, I imagine somewhere in that ten year span, he'll get $20+ which begins to make it real rough to bring in and/or keep solid role players.

[spurraider21]

I guess if they can keep his salary somewhere in the $15 million range, it's possible.
its not a matter of if, its a matter of what contract he is eligible for

[Chinook]

ok.

Did anyone say he was or are you just thinking out loud?

I was refuting your point about James proving he's the superior franchise building block because he took the Cavs to the Finals in 07. Iverson had a similar run, and he wasn't a championship-level franchise cornerstone. James proved he could carry his team to a title when he actually did it. He never did so without multiple All-Stars. That's not to disparage him at all, but he's still not the same level of building block that Duncan and Shaq were, even though he's a better player.


I guess if they can keep his salary somewhere in the $15 million range, it's possible.

But if he blows up like you say he will, I imagine somewhere in that ten year span, he'll get $20+ which begins to make it real rough to bring in and/or keep solid role players.

Every superstar gets that much eventually. Look at what James makes. Durant will make that in two years when he reaches the final year of his current deal. Duncan was making it in 2005 and 2007 when the Spurs rang. But Davis won't make that much until the third year of his extension (five years from now), and even then, the cap increases means it will be as if he were making $17 Million this year. By definition, the max for a Rose extension is 30 percent of that year's salary cap (give or take a million or so for various reasons). So it's not like Davis can sign a five-year $120 Million deal and destroy his team's cap.

Team's build around max deals all the time. The Pacers will have two next year. The Heat essentially have three. Nene essentially has a max deal for the purposes of this discussion (he could get a good deal more due to his experience, but he's making more than max players like Hibbert are). The Thunder has two Rose-max deals and could have carried a third if they had amnestied Perkins. Duncan carried one of those old-CBA bloated max deals, and the team still was able to keep their two other stars and field a contender, while staying under the tax, which pretty much no contender does. The Celtics had two old-CBA max deals and Ray Allen's deal that would be a max under the new CBA.

I'm sorry, but it's silly to criticize Davis candidacy based on the possibility of him making too much money when each of the players we're discussing are also max players. This is especially true since Davis is likely going to make the least out of any of the other player mentioned here for most of the 10-year period we're discussing.

[Blake]

its not a matter of if, its a matter of what contract he is eligible for

Ah yeah, I forget they really put caps on individual player salaries.

He probably will be making somewhere around $18 in year six if I read the cba right.

[m>s]

Acting like Blake Griffin is the same monkeyballer that he was in 2010 is such a poor basketball take. I'm not a Griffin fan but he's pretty hard to stop when he gets the ball in the low post or the high post these days and has developed a few go to moves like that running jump hook across the paint. Not the 2nd coming of Hakeem but far from a scrub.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxvZmPcKaU

Dude even shoots a few threes these days apparently.

[Infinite_limit]

http://famousmormon.org/files/2013/01/jabari-parker-mormon.jpg

[Kidd K]

I'll go with Durant. You will have him 'til he's 35 and he will probably be in prime form until 33-34. So you're basically getting 8 prime years and 4-5 peak years out of Durant, with one or two fading years.

With LeBron, you're getting maybe one or two peak years, a few prime ones, and 5 old Bron years, years which he'd probably leave anyway.

Davis is worse than both atm and I won't believe he'll be better 'til I see it. I don't think he will surpass either player until they age out. You will get more cash and better shots at titles with the SFs.

Blake you ain't winning shit with, but you can market the hell out of him. I prefer winning so he's my last choice tbh

[Blake]

Acting like Blake Griffin is the same monkeyballer that he was in 2010 is such a poor basketball take. I'm not a Griffin fan but he's pretty hard to stop when he gets the ball in the low post or the high post these days and has developed a few go to moves like that running jump hook across the paint. Not the 2nd coming of Hakeem but far from a scrub.


Dude even shoots a few threes these days apparently.

Timely post.

[Blake]

He shot 44 percent from the corner three this season.



Dude even shoots a few threes these days apparently.

I had to look it up after this talk. Roflmaotbh he shot 12 out of 44 on the season.

You guys can stop with the :cry but he added the three pointer to his game :cry nonsense.

:lmao hilarious.

[DMC]

I'll go with Durant. You will have him 'til he's 35 and he will probably be in prime form until 33-34. So you're basically getting 8 prime years and 4-5 peak years out of Durant, with one or two fading years.

With LeBron, you're getting maybe one or two peak years, a few prime ones, and 5 old Bron years, years which he'd probably leave anyway.

Davis is worse than both atm and I won't believe he'll be better 'til I see it. I don't think he will surpass either player until they age out. You will get more cash and better shots at titles with the SFs.

Blake you ain't winning shit with, but you can market the hell out of him. I prefer winning so he's my last choice tbh

You're comparing apples to oranges and moving the goal posts. 10 years is 10 years, and doesn't take into account the fact that a player might leave after just a couple years. If you're building around a guy for 10 years, he has to be there.

KD cannot even keep RW from shitting on him unless RW is down. It took a season long injury to get KD a MVP.

Let's use Dirk as an example: Dirk was built around for years, and has 1 ring. Whether he got that in the first or last year doesn't matter, it's 1 ring. If Lebron can give you 2 rings in 10 years, that's 2x as good as Dirk. KD has been playing how long? He's got zero rings.

If you're just trying to take a guy who will be the strongest person on the team for 10 years, that's fine... take Durant or Davis, but if you're looking for a ring, better get Lebron.

[Aztecfan03]

You're comparing apples to oranges and moving the goal posts. 10 years is 10 years, and doesn't take into account the fact that a player might leave after just a couple years. If you're building around a guy for 10 years, he has to be there.

KD cannot even keep RW from shitting on him unless RW is down. It took a season long injury to get KD a MVP.

Let's use Dirk as an example: Dirk was built around for years, and has 1 ring. Whether he got that in the first or last year doesn't matter, it's 1 ring. If Lebron can give you 2 rings in 10 years, that's 2x as good as Dirk. KD has been playing how long? He's got zero rings.

If you're just trying to take a guy who will be the strongest person on the team for 10 years, that's fine... take Durant or Davis, but if you're looking for a ring, better get Lebron.

So a couple years ago you would not have built around Lebron since he had no rings?

[resistanze]

So a couple years ago you would not have built around Lebron since he had no rings?

I think the point was that LeBron is simply the best candidate to win you the most championships; whether the rings happens all in the first 5 years is still better than a younger player that could give you more years but less of a chance at a ring.

If you could hypothetically get a player who can win 4 rings in the first 5 years and none after (age/retires), or a player than can get you 1-2 over 10 years, who would you pick?

[DMC]

So a couple years ago you would not have built around Lebron since he had no rings?

A couple years ago Lebron was still the alpha on the team and still the best player in the league. A couple years ago there wasn't a better alternative.

[Kidd K]

You're comparing apples to oranges and moving the goal posts. 10 years is 10 years, and doesn't take into account the fact that a player might leave after just a couple years. If you're building around a guy for 10 years, he has to be there.

KD cannot even keep RW from shitting on him unless RW is down. It took a season long injury to get KD a MVP.

Let's use Dirk as an example: Dirk was built around for years, and has 1 ring. Whether he got that in the first or last year doesn't matter, it's 1 ring. If Lebron can give you 2 rings in 10 years, that's 2x as good as Dirk. KD has been playing how long? He's got zero rings.

If you're just trying to take a guy who will be the strongest person on the team for 10 years, that's fine... take Durant or Davis, but if you're looking for a ring, better get Lebron.

I would think I'm comparing apples to something besides apples. That's the point of a comparison. You compare two things that are different. LeBron is different from KD. Only a stupid GM doesn't take player loyalty into account when choosing a player to build around. And of course per par, another Spurstalk poster misuses the term "moving the goalposts". You guys never get that shit right.

As for KD and Westbrook, so soon your forget LeBron let Wade take as many shots as him until HE got hurt halfway through their second year together and couldn't do it all game anymore. Had Wade not gotten hurt and slipped down a bit and instead could still play like peak Wade, I doubt it'd be any different now. LeBron used to be called LeBeta too until he was 2-3 years older than Durant. So the only person moving the goalposts here is you. You're penalizing Durant for something it took LeBron more time to do, and literally had done for him.

You're claiming time doesn't matter yet we're comparing the accolades of an 11 year player to a 7 year player, a 3 year player, and a 2 year player. The 11 year player getting zero rings in his first 8 seasons and leaving his orginal team after 7 full seasons. -_- That almost seems like a joke argument tbh. LeBron didn't do any more than Durant in the same time period.

So you're cherry picking LeBron's 9th and 10th year accolades (after he fled his home state team to greener pastures) and comparing that to the other 3 players who haven't played as long OR switched teams, then you're throwing out loyalty which should be a HUGE factor, and then finally throwing out the futures (and essentially ages) of all the players involved which is literally the whole point of this discussion in the first place I would think. You literally threw out almost every factor except career accolades, aka the past.

Your answer is correct if we were posting in a "who's had the best career so far" thread, but we aren't. LeBron is the worst choice because he will be aging out the fastest, has me-first mentality for loyalty, and will more than likely be retired before the 10 years are up. Three or four years ago LeBron would have easily been the best choice. Now he isn't, and all those factors matter.

[Malik Hairston]

Where does this idea of Lebron not being loyal come from, tbh?:lol..

He played 7 seasons in Cleveland, including signing an extension, and didn't depart until his contract was officially over, never once asking for a trade(unlike a large portion of stars in NBA history, tbh)..

I would also go with Durant, tbh, but I don't know how loyalty is an argument, at the moment(especially considering we haven't seen what Durant is going to do when his time comes, and his supporting cast in OKC has been levels better than Lebron's in Cleveland)..

[m>s]

>being this edgy

[Aztecfan03]

I think the point was that LeBron is simply the best candidate to win you the most championships; whether the rings happens all in the first 5 years is still better than a younger player that could give you more years but less of a chance at a ring.

If you could hypothetically get a player who can win 4 rings in the first 5 years and none after (age/retires), or a player than can get you 1-2 over 10 years, who would you pick?

your hypotheticals are all made up. you don't know how many each could get. btw this team wouldn't be the same as the team they are currently on; you have to build around that player. so Lebron woouldn't be on the current heat team.

[resistanze]

your hypotheticals are all made up. you don't know how many each could get. btw this team wouldn't be the same as the team they are currently on; you have to build around that player. so Lebron woouldn't be on the current heat team.

Yes...my hypothetical is made up....like what a hypothetical is supposed to be...and like the question presented in the OP.

This has nothing to do with what I said. I simply said if one believes a player like LeBron gives you the best chance at the most championships, then choose him. If not, then don't. Doesn't matter if the success would come in bulk @ the beginning and not @ the end.

[DMC]

I would think I'm comparing apples to something besides apples. That's the point of a comparison. You compare two things that are different. LeBron is different from KD. Only a stupid GM doesn't take player loyalty into account when choosing a player to build around. And of course per par, another Spurstalk poster misuses the term "moving the goalposts". You guys never get that shit right.

lol


As for KD and Westbrook, so soon your forget LeBron let Wade take as many shots as him until HE got hurt halfway through their second year together and couldn't do it all game anymore. Had Wade not gotten hurt and slipped down a bit and instead could still play like peak Wade, I doubt it'd be any different now. LeBron used to be called LeBeta too until he was 2-3 years older than Durant. So the only person moving the goalposts here is you. You're penalizing Durant for something it took LeBron more time to do, and literally had done for him.

In 10 years you'd have your "would have" excuses for not having a ring.


You're claiming time doesn't matter yet we're comparing the accolades of an 11 year player to a 7 year player, a 3 year player, and a 2 year player. The 11 year player getting zero rings in his first 8 seasons and leaving his orginal team after 7 full seasons. -_- That almost seems like a joke argument tbh. LeBron didn't do any more than Durant in the same time period.

From what we currently know, Lebron is the best player in the league. He's not a "used to be the best" player.


So you're cherry picking LeBron's 9th and 10th year accolades (after he fled his home state team to greener pastures) and comparing that to the other 3 players who haven't played as long OR switched teams, then you're throwing out loyalty which should be a HUGE factor, and then finally throwing out the futures (and essentially ages) of all the players involved which is literally the whole point of this discussion in the first place I would think. You literally threw out almost every factor except career accolades, aka the past.

Lebron has b2b rings, 4 MVPs and been to the show 4 times. He's beaten KD in one of those.


Your answer is correct if we were posting in a "who's had the best career so far" thread, but we aren't. LeBron is the worst choice because he will be aging out the fastest, has me-first mentality for loyalty, and will more than likely be retired before the 10 years are up. Three or four years ago LeBron would have easily been the best choice. Now he isn't, and all those factors matter.
How many rings has KD had in his first 7 years? None. The question wasn't asked a few years ago, but right now. Right now is what matters and right now Lebron is a few more rings. KD is not.

[Kidd K]

lol

In 10 years you'd have your "would have" excuses for not having a ring.

From what we currently know, Lebron is the best player in the league. He's not a "used to be the best" player.

Lebron has b2b rings, 4 MVPs and been to the show 4 times. He's beaten KD in one of those.

How many rings has KD had in his first 7 years? None. The question wasn't asked a few years ago, but right now. Right now is what matters and right now Lebron is a few more rings. KD is not.

LeBron is the best of the group now. He's also the oldest. Age matters.

LeBron did not win a ring in his first 7 seasons and had not done so until he left the team that tried to build around him. It's a joke to penalize Durant or anyone else for not doing better than LeBron did in comparison. That is a perfect example of moving the goalposts.

How many rings he won in the past in seasons 9 and 10 with superstars around him doesn't matter. We're choosing a guy for the NEXT 10 years to build around. You don't get to bring Bosh and Wade too, and you're gonna have old man LeBron for 4-5 years.

Durant will be at his peak and in his prime for nearly the entirety of the next 10 years. So yeah, I would rather build around the guy who's loyal and nearly as good now and won't begin his decline in a few years just because he won a couple rings with a manufactured super team while cakewalking through a weak conference and practically defaulting into the finals every year.

[Malik Hairston]

LeBron is the best of the group now. He's also the oldest. Age matters.

LeBron did not win a ring in his first 7 seasons and had not done so until he left the team that tried to build around him. It's a joke to penalize Durant or anyone else for not doing better than LeBron did in comparison. That is a perfect example of moving the goalposts.

How many rings he won in the past in seasons 9 and 10 with superstars around him doesn't matter. We're choosing a guy for the NEXT 10 years to build around. You don't get to bring Bosh and Wade too, and you're gonna have old man LeBron for 4-5 years.

Durant will be at his peak and in his prime for nearly the entirety of the next 10 years. So yeah, I would rather build around the guy who's loyal and nearly as good now and won't begin his decline in a few years just because he won a couple rings with a manufactured super team while cakewalking through a weak conference and practically defaulting into the finals every year.

- Again, how is Durant more loyal than Lebron?..

- What super team? A 2nd option averaging 16 PPG and a 3rd option averaging 13 is a super team?..

[Aztecfan03]

LeBron is the best of the group now. He's also the oldest. Age matters.

LeBron did not win a ring in his first 7 seasons and had not done so until he left the team that tried to build around him. It's a joke to penalize Durant or anyone else for not doing better than LeBron did in comparison. That is a perfect example of moving the goalposts.

How many rings he won in the past in seasons 9 and 10 with superstars around him doesn't matter. We're choosing a guy for the NEXT 10 years to build around. You don't get to bring Bosh and Wade too, and you're gonna have old man LeBron for 4-5 years.

Durant will be at his peak and in his prime for nearly the entirety of the next 10 years. So yeah, I would rather build around the guy who's loyal and nearly as good now and won't begin his decline in a few years just because he won a couple rings with a manufactured super team while cakewalking through a weak conference and practically defaulting into the finals every year.

exactly. but i still don't know if I'd want Durant.

[Kidd K]

- Again, how is Durant more loyal than Lebron?..

- What super team? A 2nd option averaging 16 PPG and a 3rd option averaging 13 is a super team?..

???????

Bosh averaged 24/11 before going to Miami and 18/8 there (points down solely because he gets less touches)

Wade averaged 30/4/7.5 two years before LeBron went there, and 23/5/5 Bron's first 3 years in Miami and still more than any Spur this year.

Both are capable of taking over a given game and playing good D'.

Multiple great role players signed there peanuts: Battier, Anderson, Allen, Miller.


As for Durant, he is signed for and will be with OKC for a minimum of two years longer than LeBron stayed with Cleveland (at least 9 total for Durant vs the minimum of 7 for LeBron)

[Malik Hairston]

???????

Bosh averaged 24/11 before going to Miami and 18/8 there (points down solely because he gets less touches)

Wade averaged 30/4/7.5 two years before LeBron went there, and 23/5/5 Bron's first 3 years in Miami and still more than any Spur this year.

Both are capable of taking over a given game and playing good D'.

Multiple great role players signed there peanuts: Battier, Anderson, Allen, Miller.


As for Durant, he is signed for and will be with OKC for a minimum of two years longer than LeBron stayed with Cleveland (at least 9 total for Durant vs the minimum of 7 for LeBron)

You're looking at names and ignoring how poorly Wade and Bosh played in last year's playoffs, though:lol..Wade was virtually useless in the playoffs last year, and Bosh was a non-factor for large stretches of the playoffs..

Lebron is one of only 3 players in the modern era to lead a team to a title while leading his team in points, assists, rebounds and stls or blocks..he's also one of the only players in league history to win a title with his 2nd option averaging a total lower than Wade's point output last year..

The Heat were projected to be a Super Team, but Wade has declined significantly and Bosh is a role player in Spoelstra's system when Wade is playing..outside of the 2003 Spurs and 1994 Rockets, no title team was as much of a 1-man team as last year's Heat..


Lebron signed an extension with Cleveland and never demanded a trade or made any noise about the failures of the front office..there's no argument that he isn't loyal:lol..

[Kidd K]

You're looking at names and ignoring how poorly Wade and Bosh played in last year's playoffs, though:lol..Wade was virtually useless in the playoffs last year, and Bosh was a non-factor for large stretches of the playoffs..

The Heat were projected to be a Super Team, but Wade has declined significantly and Bosh is a role player in Spoelstra's system when Wade is playing..


Lebron signed an extension with Cleveland and never demanded a trade or made any noise about the failures of the front office..there's no argument that he isn't loyal:lol..

LeBron signed a restricted free agent extension. You do realize teams could basically force drafted players to play for them for their first seven seasons, don't you? :lmao First 7 seasons don't count as loyalty, they are practically mandatory if these dudes want to get paid. Why do you think so many stars leave the team that drafted them after exactly 7 seasons every single time?

Cleveland's front office failures were the fact that they played in Cleveland and nobody went there. Gilbert spent money.


As for Wade and Bosh, they don't need to get much stats in these worthless first rounds. These are basically byes for Miami, Look at ECF and Finals stats instead. Wade was hurt and still killing it last year when it mattered most.

[Malik Hairston]

:lol Wade and Bosh were horrible in the Finals, tbh, and bad for most of the Pacers series..Wade had the worst on/off metrics of any player for Miami in the Finals, they were getting destroyed by the Spurs whenever he was on the floor..

And you still haven't demonstrated how Lebron isn't loyal:lol..

[TDMVPDPOY]

longetivity is overrated if you have nothing to show for it, just ask the mailman and stockton

1 ring in a decade is better then someone who has 10 great years with no rings...

[Malik Hairston]

Lol anyone picking Lebron. Nigga would bolt to a superfriends team halfway through that decade :lmao

Id pick Lillard or Wall tbh.

:lmao:lmao..

[illusioNtEk]

Davis is unproven... the playoffs are very different then the reg season ....

i would pick lebron