Oral History of Kings-Lakers 2002 Conference Finals

[Findog]

http://grantland.com/features/2002-western-conference-oral-history-los-angeles-lakers-sacramento-kings/?erd


“It was the big city of California against what was perceived to be this sleepy, little capital town of California,” said Scott Howard-Cooper, who covered the NBA for the Sacramento Bee during the series. “North versus South. Established versus wannabe. There were so many things that drew them together.”

[ambchang]

:lmao


We weren’t worried (about the food poisoning incident). If Shaq would have went down, that would have been an issue. We felt that with Kobe out, no disrespect to Kobe, but we could fill in with B-Shaw [Brian Shaw] and Rick and all the other guys. When you take away size like Shaq, that would have been difficult. But with Kobe, we knew his love for Michael Jordan, [and Jordan] would have overcome his sickness and been able to play. So we weren’t really worried about that.

[AaronY]

Wow, good read. Never knew Horry had such a good overall game in that one hit the game winner in; 18 points, 14rebounds, and 5 assists.

[Killakobe81]

:lmao

Dont think this was the dig you meant it or what you wanted it to be. Shaq was a beast.

But no way they win that series without Kobe that is just hubris. Shaq at times struggled with foul trouble especially on the road.

[Killakobe81]

Wow, good read. Never knew Horry had such a good overall game in that one hit the game winner in; 18 points, 14rebounds, and 5 assists.

Horry was a boss. from 96-2005 most significant role player and one of the truly great clutch players in NBA history with the hip check adding to his clutch resume.

[Findog]

Christie basically talking about Horry's kill shot in G4, that with Shaq it was 100 percent at the rim, but with Kobe it was 50 percent on the perimeter. And you can live with 50 percent on the perimeter. Vlade was basically just reenacting Magic's ball toss as the end of the 91 Conference Finals against the Blazers. He just tapped it right to Horry.

[DMC]

Dont think this was the dig you meant it or what you wanted it to be. Shaq was a beast.

But no way they win that series without Kobe that is just hubris. Shaq at times struggled with foul trouble especially on the road.

Kobe's semen shield to the rescue!

[ambchang]

Another quote that settles the Shaq and Kobe were equals argument.


When we played the Lakers, I usually told our guys that “I got him.” Not that I was going to totally stop [Kobe] by any stretch of the imagination, but don’t double-team. Shaq, at the rim, is 100 percent. Kobe out here is 50 percent and we can live with that. I was just trying to stick him and trying to make him miss the shot. Luckily I did that and Vlade had this Magic Johnson–Portland flashback, trying to bat the ball to the other end of the court.

:cry Kobe is clutch.

[Killakobe81]

Speaking of Shaq being a beast ...

Shaquille had come back heavy after the first championship. After they won the second championship, he had said he was going to come in at 300 pounds. He literally came back weighing closer to 400. He was easily 360, 375. So he spent all season playing himself into shape.

A big part of the feud and inexcusable even with a toe injury 375?! I dont think Shaq is that fat now ...he literally did not care about off-season cinditioning and chose surgery/rehab/conditioning on "company time" and as the back to back Finals MVP no one said much.

[Killakobe81]

Another quote that settles the Shaq and Kobe were equals argument.



:cry Kobe is clutch.

LOL you do realize 50% is good?
Also of course a shaq dunk is 100%
Again this is not a dig Shaq, in playoff Finals form was a beast.

[Killakobe81]

We weren’t afraid of Kobe — Doug [Christie] gave Kobe a tougher time than anybody else would. We didn’t have to come and double him. We felt good about Vlade’s matchup against Shaq. Even though Shaq was a bigger, stronger guy, Vlade was pretty crafty.
Is that a Shaq dig too we felt good about Vlade's matchup?

But amb doesnt post that ... Vlade versus shaq 1 on 1 is a GOOD matchup ...LOL ... Amb reaching.

Good article people on here should read the whole thing. Only real insight for most is how critical Horry truly was but for me I knew that I saw every game that year. Winning that title was more a sense of relief and the Shaqobe feud was already starting to get on my nerves. I wanted them to work it out but if not wanted one of them gone. Their feud was way more public than PG banging Hibberts bottom bitch.

[ambchang]

Speaking of Shaq being a beast ...

Shaquille had come back heavy after the first championship. After they won the second championship, he had said he was going to come in at 300 pounds. He literally came back weighing closer to 400. He was easily 360, 375. So he spent all season playing himself into shape.

A big part of the feud and inexcusable even with a toe injury 375?! I dont think Shaq is that fat now ...he literally did not care about off-season cinditioning and chose surgery/rehab/conditioning on "company time" and as the back to back Finals MVP no one said much.

Despite that, the Kings are STILL much much more worried about Shaq than Kobe. Says something about how good Shaq was.


LOL you do realize 50% is good?
Also of course a shaq dunk is 100%
Again this is not a dig Shaq, in playoff Finals form was a beast.

No doubt 50% is good, only problem is that Kobe was actually 25% in the clutch.

Also, you do realize 100% > 50%, right? Kings are worried that Shaq can get a dunk whenever he wants, speaks of how good he was, right?

[Killakobe81]

Despite that, the Kings are STILL much much more worried about Shaq than Kobe. Says something about how good Shaq was.



No doubt 50% is good, only problem is that Kobe was actually 25% in the clutch.

Also, you do realize 100% > 50%, right? Kings are worried that Shaq can get a dunk whenever he wants, speaks of how good he was, right?

I was not discussing clutch, you did.
Of course 100% is better said that ...two problems shaq suckss at FT's and those Kings had Vlade, Pollard and one other big I forget his name that could foul Shaq late and send him to the line.
And against Sacto shaq typically was battling foul trouble that he did not face other teams or even against the Kings when at staples. Plus the Kings bigs flopped, well. Dont get me wrong sometimes Shaq committed offensive fouls but it shows how shitty the refs are (home cookin) they usually only called it on the road. Sacto also had homecourt that year.

By the WCf shaq was in fine shape. Shaq was still the #1 option ... I have no issue with any of that I just do not see how that "settles" anything. Who is even arguing that point? If you read the article the Lakers had less talent and were increasingly reliant on Shaq (which had always been true) Kobe who responsibilities (and ego) increased and Horry who had to play a bigger role because he had no back up and the Lakers lacked a great #3 scoring option. The Kings had a lot more weapons.

[Seventyniner]

Phil Jackson: It wasn’t as ridiculous as you saw in, say, the Miami versus Dallas series in 2006 when Dwyane Wade was shooting 20-something free throws a game that series.

That's like saying 9/11 wasn't that bad because Hiroshima was worse.

[AaronY]

Reading that thing too I remembered that wide right airball from Peja and then started thinking "man, what a choker" but then remembered that he hit what seemed like 50 bajillion threes for the Mavs in 2011. Forgot how much redeemed himself

[JoeTait75]

Game 7 was one of the biggest choke-jobs I've ever seen in professional sports. Only equivalents I can think of off the top of my head are the Bartman Game and the Pirates in the ninth inning of Game 7 of the '92 NLCS against Atlanta.

[Killakobe81]

In the 2001 playoffs, the Lakers mocked the Kings for over-celebrating their first-round win; Shaq disparaged Divac’s defensive techniques; and the Lakers ripped off an embarrassing sweep. They looked like they had dismissed Sacramento

The series Kobe put up numbers only Hakeem, Shaq and Now Aldridge had put up in the last 25 years?!

Phil would of been a great forum troll:

The seeds had been sown for a bitter war. When the Lakers went up 2-0 in Round 1 of the 2000 playoffs, they traveled to Sacramento thinking the series was over. Instead, the Kings burned a Lakers jersey as part of a pregame celebration, and won Games 3 and 4 before falling in Game 5. Kings co-owner Joe Maloof told Bloomberg that Phil Jackson was “arrogant” during the series and had been “cowering in the corner” during the losses in Sacramento. That started the bad blood. Jackson enjoyed splicing movie clips into game film and once juxtaposed then-Kings point guard Jason Williams against Ed Norton’s character in American History X and Kings coach Rick Adelman with Adolf Hitler, which infuriated the Kings and led to Adelman saying, “That’s crossing the line, I think.” Then, Jackson enraged everyone in Sacramento by referring to the city as a “cow town” and also saying, “I coached basketball in Puerto Rico, where when you won on a visiting floor, your tires were slashed and you might be chased out of town with rocks breaking the windows of your car. I mean, it’s a different environment, entirely. You’re talking about semicivilized Sacramentans. Those people up there may be redneck in some form or fashion.” In the 2001 playoffs, the Lakers mocked the Kings for over-celebrating their first-round win; Shaq disparaged Divac’s defensive techniques; and the Lakers ripped off an embarrassing sweep

[ambchang]

We weren’t afraid of Kobe — Doug [Christie] gave Kobe a tougher time than anybody else would. We didn’t have to come and double him. We felt good about Vlade’s matchup against Shaq. Even though Shaq was a bigger, stronger guy, Vlade was pretty crafty.
Is that a Shaq dig too we felt good about Vlade's matchup?

But amb doesnt post that ... Vlade versus shaq 1 on 1 is a GOOD matchup ...LOL ... Amb reaching.

Good article people on here should read the whole thing. Only real insight for most is how critical Horry truly was but for me I knew that I saw every game that year. Winning that title was more a sense of relief and the Shaqobe feud was already starting to get on my nerves. I wanted them to work it out but if not wanted one of them gone. Their feud was way more public than PG banging Hibberts bottom bitch.

LOL, then there is a huge section about how Vlade flops. And no where did it say no double on Shaq. It said no double on Kobe.

[Seventyniner]

So we have to wait 11 more years for an oral history of game 6 of the 2013 Finals?

[Killakobe81]

weakened Bryant still scored 22 points in Game 2, and the Lakers hung around thanks to monster efforts from O’Neal (35 points) and Horry (20 rebounds). Only Bobby Jackson — a spark plug with 17 points — played well for the Kings, but a jarring 38-25 free throw advantage lifted Sacramento to a 96-90 victory. “In order to beat us, you have to beat us,” Shaq told reporters afterward. “And beat us fair and square. There’s only one way to beat us — it starts with a ‘c’ and ends with a ‘t.’

1. Sacto shot 38 Ft's in game 2 no one remembers that (Like i have said repeatedly and Kerr mentioned on TNT last night) only emo fans don't know this ...
2. Horry grabbed 20 freaking rebounds this game. Why could we not see THAT horry more often? Great clutch player but a bit of a regular season under-achiever tbh
3. LOL Shaq trollin' too and throwing out word problems.

[ambchang]

I was not discussing clutch, you did.
Of course 100% is better said that ...two problems shaq suckss at FT's and those Kings had Vlade, Pollard and one other big I forget his name that could foul Shaq late and send him to the line.
And against Sacto shaq typically was battling foul trouble that he did not face other teams or even against the Kings when at staples. Plus the Kings bigs flopped, well. Dont get me wrong sometimes Shaq committed offensive fouls but it shows how shitty the refs are (home cookin) they usually only called it on the road. Sacto also had homecourt that year.

By the WCf shaq was in fine shape. Shaq was still the #1 option ... I have no issue with any of that I just do not see how that "settles" anything. Who is even arguing that point? If you read the article the Lakers had less talent and were increasingly reliant on Shaq (which had always been true) Kobe who responsibilities (and ego) increased and Horry who had to play a bigger role because he had no back up and the Lakers lacked a great #3 scoring option. The Kings had a lot more weapons.

You do realize that was strictly talking about the set up of Horry's dagger, right? That was specifically talking about the players in the clutch. It wasn't me talking about it, it was the Kings players.

[Killakobe81]

LOL, then there is a huge section about how Vlade flops. And no where did it say no double on Shaq. It said no double on Kobe.

Did not say that. I said that they felt good about the matchup. Point being how does this article prove anything ...it's just a great article with first hand biased accounts on an emotional series.

[Killakobe81]

Fox: I thought he would end up having a better game, he would go into some hyper-focused mode and pull off some game for the ages. Didn’t go that way and Shaq got quick fouls.

Like I said ...

[Venti Quattro]

Shaq may have been more important than Kobe during the three-peat but the Lakers wouldn't win the three-peat without Kobe's heroics.

:lmao the number of times he ethered the Spurs in the playoffs

Kings can't really cry cheating in Game 6 considering how...
A. They poisoned Kobe's cheeseburger
B. They collectively choked on dicks in Game 7.

[Killakobe81]

Phil Jackson: The discrepancy between what happened when Shaq was in foul trouble in Sacramento [versus] Shaq getting fouled in L.A. was really interesting. Look at those stats. Divac got the calls, which became blocks on our home court, which became charges on their home court.

There were bad calls both ways in that series people only remember game 7

[Killakobe81]

Shaq was definitely more important than Kobe during the three-peat but the Lakers wouldn't win the three-peat without Kobe's heroics.

:lmao the number of times he ethered the Spurs in the playoffs

abaolutely.
I dont know who would argue otherwise?
Shaq got doubled yep. and the team put their best defender on Kobe that was smart strategy. I donts ee how that is a knock on Kobe. Shaq wa sthe most dominant player in the game.

[ambchang]

Did not say that. I said that they felt good about the matchup. Point being how does this article prove anything ...it's just a great article with first hand biased accounts on an emotional series.

Sure, all quotes points to Shaq being the man, from Sac to Laker players.


Fox: I thought he would end up having a better game, he would go into some hyper-focused mode and pull off some game for the ages. Didn’t go that way and Shaq got quick fouls.

Like I said ...

You mean like how Shaq getting into foul trouble doomed the Lakers? No kidding.


Shaq may have been more important than Kobe during the three-peat but the Lakers wouldn't win the three-peat without Kobe's heroics.

:lmao the number of times he ethered the Spurs in the playoffs

Kings can't really cry cheating in Game 6 considering how...
A. They poisoned Kobe's cheeseburger
B. They collectively choked on dicks in Game 7.

Wow, taking a HoF and top 15 player of all time off a team without replacing him would cost a team games! What an insightful observation! Lakers wouldn't win without Horry either, was it Horry's team? Was that Horry's team? Was he 1c to Shaq's 1a and Kobe's 1b?

[ambchang]

abaolutely.
I dont know who would argue otherwise?
Shaq got doubled yep. and the team put their best defender on Kobe that was smart strategy. I donts ee how that is a knock on Kobe. Shaq wa sthe most dominant player in the game.

Umm .... all of those revisionist history about how Kobe was as important as Shaq in 2002?

[baseline bum]

Horry was a boss. from 96-2005 most significant role player and one of the truly great clutch players in NBA history with the hip check adding to his clutch resume.

05? Horry was huge for the Spurs long after that.

[Killakobe81]

O’Neal: I actually had the 2-pointer to tie up. I tried to get it up there quick so Vlade wouldn’t foul me. Vlade did foul me and I missed.

Shaq admitting he is NOT clutch ...no knock but he didnt want to go to the line late ...Shaq was still the most dominant player in the NBA

[Venti Quattro]

Faggots from Portland and Cowtown (in collaboration with hypocrite Spurs fans) like to revise history that the Lakers cheated in two WCF's when BOTH teams had a chance to close out the Lakers in a Game 7 but just came up short.

2000 vs POR: Missed 15 straight shots in the 4th
2002 vs SAC: 16-30 from the line + airballs from Peja and Hedo

Yeah the Lakers are cheaters :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Killakobe81]

Umm .... all of those revisionist history about how Kobe was as important as Shaq in 2002?

Depends on what you are talking about.
Shaq was still the #1 option but for the lakers to win a title yes he was just as important.
No way the Lakers could win because the team was not very deep, and shaq was prone to road foul trouble and not reliable in the clutch those are facts.
I still think Shaq was the MVP of that team when in shape and healthy. But by 2002 they were more reliant on Kobe especially in the regular season.
ALso our role players Shaw, Fox etc. were more reliant on shaq to play off his banging inside.

[Venti Quattro]

Wow, taking a HoF and top 15 player of all time off a team without replacing him would cost a team games! What an insightful observation! Lakers wouldn't win without Horry either, was it Horry's team? Was that Horry's team? Was he 1c to Shaq's 1a and Kobe's 1b?
Shut up weak minded faggot who doesn't even watch Lakers games. Kobe was very important because he led the Lakers on the floor in stretches where Shaq was in foul trouble or the opposing team would resort to Hack-a-Shaq.

Horry and Fisher's daggers were very important but everybody knew who were the team's top dogs

[Killakobe81]

05? Horry was huge for the Spurs long after that.

Yes but last HUGE EPIC shot I remember was against the Pistons ... but Like i said the hip check came after, NO?

[Killakobe81]

Sure, all quotes points to Shaq being the man, from Sac to Laker players.



You mean like how Shaq getting into foul trouble doomed the Lakers? No kidding.



Wow, taking a HoF and top 15 player of all time off a team without replacing him would cost a team games! What an insightful observation! Lakers wouldn't win without Horry either, was it Horry's team? Was that Horry's team? Was he 1c to Shaq's 1a and Kobe's 1b?

Amb just trollin' but if you read the article or actually watched those games his argument is flimsy. he is just cherry picking.

[Killakobe81]

For all the fuss about officiating in this series, Game 5 never gets mentioned enough. As Christie says now, it’s “a game that kind of goes under the radar.” Even though Webber played another superb game (29 points and 13 rebounds) and Mike Bibby (23 points) came through down the stretch, Shaq (just 32 minutes) battled foul trouble the whole game and eventually fouled out; in a relatively astonishing twist, Shaq attempted only one free throw all night.10 And Bibby hit a game-winning jumper with 8.2 seconds left in the middle of a controversial series of plays. First, Webber appeared to knock the ball out of bounds, but officials said it deflected off Robert Horry. Then, Webber appeared to truck over Derek Fisher in handing the ball off to Bibby, freeing him for the game-winning look. On the final play, Bobby Jackson made contact on Kobe Bryant’s attempt at a game winner, but no call was made and Sacramento snuck off with a 92-91 win

LOL conspiracies ...

[baseline bum]

Yes but last HUGE EPIC shot I remember was against the Pistons ... but Like i said the hip check came after, NO?

Rob still came in and hit a couple of big threes in Game 7 in New Orleans in 08 even though he was completely finished by then. Fucking hell if Duncan would have passed him the ball at the end of Game 7 in 06 vs Dallas when he had a wide open three to win the series. :pctoss

[Killakobe81]

O’Neal: I was sleeping, and my little daughter, she was sleeping on me. She was slobbering, I was slobbering, and the phone rang at about 2:30 and it was Kobe. He was like: Big fella, I need you tomorrow. Let’s make history.17

17. O’Neal recounted the telephone call to many reporters after the game.
Phil Jackson: Well, that’s the way Kobe rolls. That’s the way he does things. He doesn’t sleep a lot. I’ve had players very similar to that. Michael Jordan’s another guy that didn’t sleep much during the playoffs. The intensity is so great, your mind’s working overtime. That’s something that Kobe was, I think, effective in doing with his teammates. He didn’t have a buddy-buddy relationship with Shaq, but he had a good professional relationship with him.

What an asshole!!
What a shitty team-mate!!!
This settles it Amb, Kobe is a GREAT leader!!!

See the issue with making conclusions off a "oral history"

[Killakobe81]

Rob still came in and hit a couple of big threes in Game 7 in New Orleans in 08 even though he was completely finished by then. Fucking hell if Duncan would have passed him the ball at the end of Game 7 in 06 vs Dallas when he had a wide open three to win the series. :pctoss

I wont lie I do not remember those but I dont dispute it feel free to amend my comment. I thought you guys won Game 7 rather easy but I dont remember much except Paul shrinking late ...

[Michael Jordan.]

Killa is butthurt as fuck.

[Venti Quattro]

Fucking hell if Duncan would have passed him the ball at the end of Game 7 in 06 vs Dallas when he had a wide open three to win the series. :pctoss

You lose some with Rob but most (about 75% I guess) of the time he will make. He has 7 rings off those timely threes.

[Findog]

So we have to wait 11 more years for an oral history of game 6 of the 2013 Finals?

I think the Spurs will definitely be getting their 30 for 30 at some point.

[Findog]

I'd love to read an oral history of the Spurs-Mavs 06 series. That remains probably the best series I've ever watched - just the execution, quality of play, intensity, and the way the two teams went right at each other.

[Venti Quattro]

I think the Spurs will definitely be getting their 30 for 30 at some point.
More on the franchise's dominance, most likely. 6 would get a footnote, at most. You know how these things go. 6 was terrible but it's not like some Spur's vehicle ran through a truck in Germany and got pipped like a soda can

[HemisfairArena]

I've often wondered why no one has gone to Robert Horry and offered him a head coaching job. With teams going after Mark Jackson, JKidd, Steve Kerr, Byron Scott, Derek Fisher,ect,,,,Horry has the best chance at succeeding out of all of them. He has learned under Tomjanovich/Jackson/Popovich,,,he has played with Olajuwon, Shaq/Kobe, and Duncan. He has ice running through his veins and would instill that killer instinct mentality into his team.

[Findog]

More on the franchise's dominance, most likely. 6 would get a footnote, at most. You know how these things go. 6 was terrible but it's not like some Spur's vehicle ran through a truck in Germany and got pipped like a soda can

Definitely the franchise's dominance over such a long span of time. Pop and Duncan went to their first Finals in 99 and made it back 14 years later. That's incredible. And really, just how close they were to pulling off a historic run - you had .04 that prevented a threepeat, the Mavs series in 06 could have really gone either way because the two teams were that close, if the 06 Mavs and 06 Spurs played 100 times it would probably be 50-50 or 51-49. They would have gone on to beat Phoenix and Miami. The Spurs were really inches from potentially five titles in a row. Then you had 6. Crazy to think the Spurs could have had three more titles in their run.

[Killakobe81]

Killa is butthurt as fuck.

Stay out of this djohn ... me and Amb have history ...

LOL Illard! how is that butthurt? Tolda yall no chance at a title as currently constructed.
And DPG was lock and step with you blokes buying the regular season hype, Spurs would of mercked yall niccas too.

[Killakobe81]

Definitely the franchise's dominance over such a long span of time. Pop and Duncan went to their first Finals in 99 and made it back 14 years later. That's incredible. And really, just how close they were to pulling off a historic run - you had .04 that prevented a threepeat, the Mavs series in 06 could have really gone either way because the two teams were that close, if the 06 Mavs and 06 Spurs played 100 times it would probably be 50-50 or 51-49. They would have gone on to beat Phoenix and Miami. The Spurs were really inches from potentially five titles in a row. Then you had 6. Crazy to think the Spurs could have had three more titles in their run.

All true. But if they win those they may not win some of the others ..at least you cannot assume that.
Because the Heat are making it look easy sans 2011 and "6" ...
A 3 peat is very hard to especially when you consider Spurs never repeated. but yes their run witgh Pop/duncan is amazing.

[baseline bum]

I wont lie I do not remember those but I dont dispute it feel free to amend my comment. I thought you guys won Game 7 rather easy but I dont remember much except Paul shrinking late ...

Nah, Parker hit a jumper with like 49 seconds left to seal the game. I think the score only ended up what it was because of intentional fouls and desperation shots from New Orleans to end the game. But it was a pretty close game.

Rob also had a game in the 07 Finals where he went nuts blocking shots.

Also, Rob's playoff heroics started in 95 at the latest. I don't remember what he did in 94, but in 95 he hit the game-winner of Game 1 of the WCF with maybe 6 or 7 seconds left to steal the win for Houston in a game it looked like the Spurs were going to eek out. God damn Dennis Rodman for leaving him open so he could run to the basket and try to stat-pad his rebounding totals. Speaking of that shot, I think it broke Rodman that series. Game 2 that faggot came out and started jacking up threes in the first quarter and got his ass benched.

He also had a huge three to seal Game 3 of the Finals that year.

[ambchang]

Faggots from Portland and Cowtown (in collaboration with hypocrite Spurs fans) like to revise history that the Lakers cheated in two WCF's when BOTH teams had a chance to close out the Lakers in a Game 7 but just came up short.

2000 vs POR: Missed 15 straight shots in the 4th
2002 vs SAC: 16-30 from the line + airballs from Peja and Hedo

Yeah the Lakers are cheaters :lmao :lmao :lmao

:lmao Lakers never shot 20FTA in the 4th quarter alone in elimination games in either case. No other team even had ONE game like that in the last 15 years, and yet the Lakers had 3.


Shut up weak minded faggot who doesn't even watch Lakers games. Kobe was very important because he led the Lakers on the floor in stretches where Shaq was in foul trouble or the opposing team would resort to Hack-a-Shaq.

Horry and Fisher's daggers were very important but everybody knew who were the team's top dogs

Everybody as in Horry, Christie stating that it was Shaq's team?

Total strawman argument in saying that not saying it was Kobe's team = saying the Lakers can still win without Kobe. Those are two different concepts.

People who were involved consistently said that it was Shaq's team, even in 2002, yet Kobe fans kept saying Kobe and Shaq shared equal billing. No, they did not. Even 2002 was clearly Shaq's team.

[DD]

Game 7 was one of the biggest choke-jobs I've ever seen in professional sports. Only equivalents I can think of off the top of my head are the Bartman Game and the Pirates in the ninth inning of Game 7 of the '92 NLCS against Atlanta.

+1...lol 16-30 from the FT line at HOME in an overtime game. Couple that with the fact that outside of Mike Bibby, that entire team was deathly afraid of touching the ball in the final minutes.

[baseline bum]

+1...lol 16-30 from the FT line at HOME in an overtime game. Couple that with the fact that outside of Mike Bibby, that entire team was deathly afraid of touching the ball in the final minutes.

Things seemed to go downhill once Divac fouled out. Probably not helped by the tantrum Vlade had, rolling on the ground, after that foul. :lol

[ambchang]

Depends on what you are talking about.
Shaq was still the #1 option but for the lakers to win a title yes he was just as important.
No way the Lakers could win because the team was not very deep, and shaq was prone to road foul trouble and not reliable in the clutch those are facts.
I still think Shaq was the MVP of that team when in shape and healthy. But by 2002 they were more reliant on Kobe especially in the regular season.
ALso our role players Shaw, Fox etc. were more reliant on shaq to play off his banging inside.

Kobe wasn't just as important as Shaq, Shaq was the most important, and Kobe was clearly #2.

Could they have won without Kobe? Of course not! You take a top 15 player away from a championship team and replace it with nothing, and they are not going to win. Period.

You remove Horry from the 2002 Lakers and they don't win. You take Drexler fro the 95 Rockets and they don't win. You remove Robinson from the 99 Spurs and they don't win. But does that mean they were just as important as Shaq, Hakeem and Duncan? Hell NO!


Amb just trollin' but if you read the article or actually watched those games his argument is flimsy. he is just cherry picking.

So what specifically were flimsy? The ones where Christie specifically said you don't have to double Kobe because he's got him? Or the ones that said the Kings were not worried about Kobe but Shaq?

[DD]

Killa you're not going to win this argument...no poster on this board has more Kobe/Laker-related posts than ambchink. He's tirelessly carried on his crusade for 5+ years, So i'd trust him on this matter. Gooks are persistent, as Vietnam and Korea taught us. Besides, Shaq was undoubtedly our #1 those years, but no way LA rings any of those years without Bean, either.

[JoeTait75]

+1...lol 16-30 from the FT line at HOME in an overtime game. Couple that with the fact that outside of Mike Bibby, that entire team was deathly afraid of touching the ball in the final minutes.

Give Bobby Jackson some credit, he wasn't afraid of the moment. The rest of that team, though...

Oh, and 2-of-20 from three-point range, too.

[Ricky Davis]

I'd love to read an oral history of the Spurs-Mavs 06 series. That remains probably the best series I've ever watched - just the execution, quality of play, intensity, and the way the two teams went right at each other.

This, not to sound butthurt but idk why that gets so overlooked compared to the Kings Lakers series. I guess the main reason was the egg DullASS!! laid against Miami but everyone knew that they were the better team.

The Kings are just another woulda coulda shoulda team that made it competitive but came up short against a historical powerhouse on their way to a 3 peat (Indiana last year too). The Mavs actually went toe to toe against SA, took their best shot (I don't wanna hear any Beaners talk about how the 05-06 team sucked, we weren't the same team blah blah blah), and topped them, blocking them from a 3peat.

Another thing is that there just wasn't much back and forth between the two teams. As nasty as the rivalry always felt on the court, I think the Spurs/Mavs actually mutually respected each other too much deep down to trade media blows. Whereas, LA legitimately thought the Kings had no business being on the court with them and the SAC butthurt that ensued made for some interesting drama.

[ambchang]

Killa you're not going to win this argument...no poster on this board has more Kobe/Laker-related posts than ambchink. He's tirelessly carried on his crusade for 5+ years, So i'd trust him on this matter. Gooks are persistent, as Vietnam and Korea taught us. Besides, Shaq was undoubtedly our #1 those years, but no way LA rings any of those years without Bean, either.

Great to have a Laker fan admit Shaq was the undisputed #1, and Kobe was along for the ride :tu

[Ricky Davis]

Killa you're not going to win this argument...no poster on this board has more Kobe/Laker-related posts than ambchink. He's tirelessly carried on his crusade for 5+ years, So i'd trust him on this matter. Gooks are persistent, as Vietnam and Korea taught us. Besides, Shaq was undoubtedly our #1 those years, but no way LA rings any of those years without Bean, either.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Portland-Trailblazers-Robin-Lopez-Dance-on-Floor-After-Dunk.gif

[DD]

Victor Charlie, w/ the predictable comeback bads. Icing the 2000 Finals in the decisive game 4 aint along for the ride. Destroying the Kings and Spurs in b2b playoff years isnt along for the ride.

Along for the ride most closesly defines David Robinson, who was quite arguably the worst playoff performer of our time. Then he hitched his wagon to a real alpha and the rest is history.

[Ricky Davis]

DD, shuttin off det Ho Chi Minh trail, will ambchang find an alternate route?

:popcorn

[DD]

DD, shuttin off det Ho Chi Minh trail, will ambchang find an alternate route?

:popcorn

Charlies dug in deep...probably hiding out in Laos, not far off the trail in some makeshift tunnel

[Malik Hairston]

I'll never forget that game 7, one of the most pathetic displays of basketball I've ever seen, tbh..

Even with the blatant rigging in game 6, it's tough to feel bad for Sacramento when they pulled a 6 for an entire game 7, tbh:lol..

It was clear that they were easily superior to the Lakers that year, but one team had a team full of alphas(Phil, Shaq, Kobe, Fisher, Horry), while the other team was led by moist pussies(Webber, Peja, Adelman)..

One of the best examples of Chris Webber being one of the most overrated players of my lifetime..

[ambchang]

Victor Charlie, w/ the predictable comeback bads. Icing the 2000 Finals in the decisive game 4 aint along for the ride. Destroying the Kings and Spurs in b2b playoff years isnt along for the ride.

Along for the ride most closesly defines David Robinson, who was quite arguably the worst playoff performer of our time. Then he hitched his wagon to a real alpha and the rest is history.

Wow, he had a few games where he fed off Shaq double and triple teams while scoring on Terry Porter and Steve Smith! Such a dominating player! By that logic, Robinson wasn't along for a ride in 99 either because he outscored Duncan in the Portland series with more assists, steals, and about the same number of rebounds and blocks.



DD, shuttin off det Ho Chi Minh trail, will ambchang find an alternate route?

:popcorn

:lol citing two of the most recent American defeats as a comeback, thus admitting defeat is shutting a route. This is hilarious.
Are you going to come with a parallel by citing how Kobe quit in 06 and claim victory on the argument?

[ambchang]

If you don't respond within 5 minutes, you are hiding

[Ricky Davis]

:lol citing two of the most recent American defeats as a comeback, thus admitting defeat is shutting a route. This is hilarious.
Are you going to come with a parallel by citing how Kobe quit in 06 and claim victory on the argument?
Depends.

Is the dog wagging the tail...or is the tail wagging the dog?

[DD]

I knew i could ruffle this slope's feathers by bringing up Robinson...never fails:lol

Buh buh but gaize i like reading Corinthians on mah sports memorabilia:cry

[djohn2oo8]

Stay out of this djohn ... me and Amb have history ...

LOL Illard! how is that butthurt? Tolda yall no chance at a title as currently constructed.
And DPG was lock and step with you blokes buying the regular season hype, Spurs would of mercked yall niccas too.

When did I say they did?

[Ricky Davis]

I don't want to get drawn into a month long argument with this guy but I :lol at revisionist history here. People never hesitate to call Kobe a ball hog, who always goes one on one, but now it's "Guise he just got wide open shots off of Shaq double and triple teams!!"

[ambchang]

I knew i could ruffle this slope's feathers by bringing up Robinson...never fails:lol

Buh buh but gaize i like reading Corinthians on mah sports memorabilia:cry


:lol biting on any Kobe criticism, then claiming victory again

:cry I was just trolling
:cry you responding to my highly illogical examples means I won

[Clipper Nation]

That's like saying 9/11 wasn't that bad because Hiroshima was worse.
Phil is just trolling with that one, 2006 was overblown :lol

[ambchang]

I don't want to get drawn into a month long argument with this guy but I :lol at revisionist history here. People never hesitate to call Kobe a ball hog, who always goes one on one, but now it's "Guise he just got wide open shots off of Shaq double and triple teams!!"

At-HE_rxDjc
First shot, quick shot one on one
2nd shot, rebound then fast break dunk
3rd, wide opened for a pass from the inside with FOUR kings in the middle
then Shaq scored on a double, then Shaq scored on a triple and 1
4th Kobe went one on one with two guys around Shaq, refusing to leave him to help on Kobe
5th fast break layup after Horry rebound
6h Pic and roll with Shaq, tough shot over 3 Kings
7th, 1-1 with Christie while three kings were camped in the paint around Shaq
8th 2 guys on Shaq, with another two guys guarding a zone leaving Kobe wide open
9th 4 guys in the paint around Shaq, letting Kobe go one on one with a semi-wide open shot
10th, Kobe wide opened for 3, it was good ball movement though
Next one, Shaq was singled, guys came over to help Kobe and he had to give it up to a teammate for a layup. Wow, why did he not score on that one, I wonder
A bunch of Kobe passes, one with 4 guys converging on Shaq, and Shaq STILL scored
Kobe backup Christie one one one, then fouled.
Then Kobe was fouled by Bibby on a fast break, icing two FTs with the giant caption "5PTs 0FG in 4th and OT" :lol CLUTCH

Want more?

2QWdsVQN_BE
2001's 36 pt game vs. the Spurs
1st shot: Shaq doubled Kobe WIDE open for 3
2nd, fast break layup
one on one with Daniels, help came, passed to Fisher for 3
Alleyoop to Shaq
Pass to Shaq for layup
1 on 1 pull up on Daniels' face
1 on 1 pull up on Daniels' face
Fast break
Fast break
Semi fast break
Duncan and Robinson both refused to help on Kobe because Shaq was there, Kobe scored
Fast break courtesy of Shaq outlet
1 on 1, again, Spurs refused to leave Shaq
Mismatch with Duncan
Again, duncan refused to leave Shaq
Rebounds after some helter skelter play


Just pick any random game from that era, you will see exactly the same played out over and over again.

[ambchang]

DD Why you hiding? You haven't responded in more than 5 minutes.

:lol

[Infinite_limit]

Peja blew it in Game 7

[Ricky Davis]

:lmao I see plenty of one on one shots in your cherry picking.

Nobody is denying that Shaq was the MVP of that team but to say Kobe was "just along for the ride" is ridiculous

[Findog]

Man, this oral history is really missing Rappin' Shaq. Whatever happened to that account?

[ambchang]

:lmao I see plenty of one on one shots in your cherry picking.

Nobody is denying that Shaq was the MVP of that team but to say Kobe was "just along for the ride" is ridiculous

I went through every single shot by Kobe in the fist video, and went to the point where Kobe scored 31 of his 38 points, and the game was over in the 2nd video. How was that cherry picking?

Shaq carried those Laker teams. Did Kobe put in work? Sure, but he was along for the ride, just as if you replaced him with Vince, T-Mac or AI, they would have been along for the ride. The entire Laker offense was built around Shaq.

[DAF86]

It's so sad to see Killakobe81 A.K.A "the Lakerfan not Kobefan" trying so desperately to do such a vicious damage control on Kobe. If you are such a Lakerfan like you say you are you should know Shaq >> Kobe and be cool with it.

[ambchang]

Oh no, Kobe's not along for the ride, but then Richmond said":


Shaq at one point said, “Hey, give me the ball. Ride me and then everything feeds off of me.” And we did it. We turned it around and started going down low to Shaq.

So the entire Laker team was along for the ride, but Kobe wasn't, according to a Laker. Great fantastic logic.

[baseline bum]

I'll never forget that game 7, one of the most pathetic displays of basketball I've ever seen, tbh..

Even with the blatant rigging in game 6, it's tough to feel bad for Sacramento when they pulled a 6 for an entire game 7, tbh:lol..

It was clear that they were easily superior to the Lakers that year, but one team had a team full of alphas(Phil, Shaq, Kobe, Fisher, Horry), while the other team was led by moist pussies(Webber, Peja, Adelman)..

One of the best examples of Chris Webber being one of the most overrated players of my lifetime..

You think Webber is overrated? I don't recall him ever being favorably compared to Duncan and Garnett even from 00-02 in his short prime, and everyone knew Bibby was their big game player once they traded for him. I think Rasheed was the most overrated big of that era. I can't count how many times I have heard people say Rasheed was the most skilled big in the game because he could hit threes.

[Ricky Davis]

Shaq carried those Laker teams. Did Kobe put in work? Sure, but he was along for the ride, just as if you replaced him with Vince, T-Mac or AI, they would have been along for the ride. The entire Laker offense was built around Shaq.

That's a silly subjective argument, no way to tell if Vince, T-Mac, or AI would or would not have won a ring (AI probably does). Either way those were the top wing players of that era so you can't just replace Kobe with anybody which is what "along for the ride" generally implies.

Kobe was obviously the better player than all three of those guys as evidenced by his extended prime playing at a high level and winning two more titles as the lead dog.

:lol T-Mac not even able to get out of the first round until he joined the Spurs as a corpse

[Ricky Davis]

What are we even arguing about anyway?

tbh right now I have tons of free time on my hands so I just figured I'd go around in circles with you for shits and giggles but I've lost track of what we're even debating.

[ElNono]

What are we even arguing about anyway?

tbh right now I have tons of free time on my hands so I just figured I'd go around in circles with you for shits and giggles but I've lost track of what we're even debating.

sup good doctor. How's the panamanian wife?

[RobbyH]

good to see Mike Bibby getting recognition for his big ballsack

[spurraider21]

What are we even arguing about anyway?

tbh right now I have tons of free time on my hands so I just figured I'd go around in circles with you for shits and giggles but I've lost track of what we're even debating.
you're stealing my Philo shtick :lol

[ambchang]

That's a silly subjective argument, no way to tell if Vince, T-Mac, or AI would or would not have won a ring (AI probably does). Either way those were the top wing players of that era so you can't just replace Kobe with anybody which is what "along for the ride" generally implies.

Kobe was obviously the better player than all three of those guys as evidenced by his extended prime playing at a high level and winning two more titles as the lead dog.

:lol T-Mac not even able to get out of the first round until he joined the Spurs as a corpse

You are confusing longevity with wing better at a specific point in time. Duncan had the longer prime, but 2001 shaq no doubt better than Duncan at any point in his career.

Tmac, AI and carter all had similar individual accomplishments as Kobe did during those three years, so my assumption holds quite a bit of water.

As for tmac not getting out the first round, Kobe didn't get out the first round in his absolute prime because e didn't have the most dominant front court in the league. In fact 2005 to 2007 Kobe was better than 2009 10 Kobe but one won championships and the other didn't.

Come to think of it, lakers without shaq would have trouble making the playoffs, 1st fodder at best. Lakers without Kobe would have made the 2nd or 3rd round, maybe even won it all in2001.

[Venti Quattro]

Definitely the franchise's dominance over such a long span of time. Pop and Duncan went to their first Finals in 99 and made it back 14 years later. That's incredible. And really, just how close they were to pulling off a historic run - you had .04 that prevented a threepeat, the Mavs series in 06 could have really gone either way because the two teams were that close, if the 06 Mavs and 06 Spurs played 100 times it would probably be 50-50 or 51-49. They would have gone on to beat Phoenix and Miami. The Spurs were really inches from potentially five titles in a row. Then you had 6. Crazy to think the Spurs could have had three more titles in their run.

Fisher and Dirk's heroics prevented a 5-peat semen cloud. Could you imagine how insufferable Spurs fans would be if they Spurs pulled it off

[ambchang]

What are we even arguing about anyway?

tbh right now I have tons of free time on my hands so I just figured I'd go around in circles with you for shits and giggles but I've lost track of what we're even debating.

With such short memory, no wonder you couldn't recall what happened 12 years ago.

[ambchang]

Fisher and Dirk's heroics prevented a 5-peat semen cloud. Could you imagine how insufferable Spurs fans would be if they Spurs pulled it off

Nah. Spurs wouldn't have gotten past the pistons. They were too good

[Venti Quattro]

Come to think of it, lakers without shaq would have trouble making the playoffs, 1st fodder at best. Lakers without Kobe would have made the 2nd or 3rd round, maybe even won it all in2001.
I'm glad Kobe was there because the Lakers went 15-1 and he destroyed the Spurs in the WCF. He dropped 48 and 16 to sweep the Kings in Cowtown while Shaq just dominated the opposition.

:cry if only T-Mac, Vince or AI was there

[Thebesteva]

I love how salty Kings fans forget the "poisoned burger" that nearly did the Lakers in. Yet, everyone cries because game 6 was fixed. Of course it was fixed, the NBA is a fixed fucking league. Its like watching a competitive version of WWE tbh


Gary Vitti (athletic trainer, Lakers): Kobe told me he started feeling sick around one a.m. He didn’t call me until around three. By that time his abdominal cramping, vomiting, and diarrhea was out of control. The cramping was so bad, he was curled up like a shrimp. If I could have gotten to him earlier, we might have been able to medicate him so things didn’t progress so badly, but he tried to tough it out.Phil Jackson: We didn’t think it was the flu. We thought it was just a food issue. We weren’t that concerned. He was never confident again about eating room service from that hotel.Adande: Lakers fans were convinced that it was intentional. People refused to believe it was a simple case of food poisoning. It had to be nefarious intent. Who knows?



Of course, this retarded count chacula mother fucker has his two cents to add


Christie: He seemed like himself. I never fell for any of that stuff. If you’re really, really sick, you just don’t go out there. Otherwise, you can’t use that as an excuse. He was one of the players I respected most. It didn’t matter what you did, he would shoot the ball great. He would go both ways, midrange game, everything. They were like, “Oh, Kobe’s sick.” I didn’t even hear that. I was more like, “Awww. I’m not listening.”

[Killakobe81]

It's so sad to see Killakobe81 A.K.A "the Lakerfan not Kobefan" trying so desperately to do such a vicious damage control on Kobe. If you are such a Lakerfan like you say you are you should know Shaq >> Kobe and be cool with it.

Never said Shaq was not the more dominant player I argued some import, but as some Saud it's a waste of time here. I am a Lakers fan and trust my thoughts on the subject more than Amb because I watched ever y game that year he did not. I just thought his conclusions based on this article was flimsy and called him on it. But I made my point and am done.

[ambchang]

I'm glad Kobe was there because the Lakers went 15-1 and he destroyed the Spurs in the WCF. He dropped 48 and 16 to sweep the Kings in Cowtown while Shaq just dominated the opposition.

:cry if only T-Mac, Vince or AI was there

You won the championship, doesn't matter if you go 15-1 or 15-11. You won.

With Vince tmac or AI there, could've gone 15-0

[ambchang]

Never said Shaq was not the more dominant player I argued some import, but as some Saud it's a waste of time here. I am a Lakers fan and trust my thoughts on the subject more than Amb because I watched ever y game that year he did not. I just thought his conclusions based on this article was flimsy and called him on it. But I made my point and am done.

You watched every game, those players PLAYED every game, not to mention practiced them as well

[Venti Quattro]

With Vince tmac or AI there, could've gone 15-0
:lmao :lmao no

The Lakers lost Game 1 of the 2001 Finals because they got too bored from the competition, and a long lay-off because they absolutely wrecked the Spurs while Philly went through a needle to beat Milwaukee. Once they got the necessary wake-up call (:lol Lue), they got to work and backdoor-swept the Sixers.

[ambchang]

:lmao :lmao no

The Lakers lost Game 1 of the 2001 Finals because they got too bored from the competition, and a long lay-off because they absolutely wrecked the Spurs while Philly went through a needle to beat Milwaukee. Once they got the necessary wake-up call (:lol Lue), they got to work and backdoor-swept the Sixers.

They lost game one because AI went nuclear on them. With AI on the lakers, anyone from the east would've been swept.

[Venti Quattro]

They lost game one because AI went nuclear on them. With AI on the lakers, anyone from the east would've been swept.

:lol and then got routinely disposed of by the Lakers in 5 games

The Lakers lost Game 1 because of their long lay-off... and because AI dropped 48.

They fell victims to their overwhelming success, but quickly recovered to restore order.

[ambchang]

:lol and then got routinely disposed of by the Lakers in 5 games

The Lakers lost Game 1 because of their long lay-off... and because AI dropped 48.

They fell victims to their overwhelming success, but quickly recovered to restore order.

This my point. With AI in place of Kobe. Lakers go 15-0

[Venti Quattro]

This my point. With AI in place of Kobe. Lakers go 15-0

That is a big fallacy.

[ambchang]

That is a big fallacy.

So without AI scoring48, you think another eastern conference team would've beaten the lakers once? The raptors maybe?

[AaronY]

Ambgchang has not just beaten a dead horse on this topic, he's chopped it up into pieces, ground the pieces into mulch, spread the mulch out over a football field, and then carpet bombed the field with about 500 nukes

[monosylab1k]

Phil Jackson: It wasn’t as ridiculous as you saw in, say, the Miami versus Dallas series in 2006 when Dwyane Wade was shooting 20-something free throws a game that series.

Phil with the sleeper "shit on Pat Riley" goods tbh