Islam

[Avante]

Now it's the hanging of a woman who left Islam right after she has a baby. Are you fucking kidding me?

If you read the Koran it reads like a blueprint for terror. Chop chop, burn, cut, kill....is all over the place, it's fucking crazy. Kids growing up thinking their misson in life is to kill infidels and oh yeah themselves so they can be guaranteed a spot in paradise, is that sick or what? 72 virgins, huh? Who in their right mind wants virgins, that's how backward those fucks are. You'd want 72 experienced women.

What do those people do for entertainment, hell they are so screwed up we can't even have an Olympics in the Middle East. Good looking women having to go around like a mummy, what the hell is that about?

I forget which one of those countries it was that had a couple decent female sprinters at the Olympics. So there they are trying to run in all that garb, hahaha!!!!!!!! Is that fucked up or what?

What is wrong with these people? Don't they know Mohammad was full of shit, there was no meeting with the Angel Gabriel in a cave on the mountain, don't they know he was a murderous thug and warrior. That he wiped those out he couldn't convert to Islam. Was the guy bipolar or suffering from some other mental illness?

How long before another 9/11-ish type act of terror from these freaks?

Now here's what happens..."oh yeah well how about the Crusades and all the violence in the Bible"...it's not the Christians beheading homosexuals, it's not the Christians ramming themselves into buildings killing thousands, it's not the Christians killing people because they became Mormoms or whatever. Honor killings? Public stonings?

I have a book about a suicide bomber sent over here to ...BOOM! While he's here he sees our way of life and meets some happy people, not depressed sand dwellers. So he starts having fun with his life, he no longer wants to...BOOM!

[Infinite_limit]

This is the finest piece I've seen written about Islam



Once were warriors:
Why Islam failed Muslims


I got the idea for the title of this article from a movie I watched – “Once were Warriors”. The movie highlights the social problems of the Maoris. Most of you probably have not seen the show because the movie was made in New Zealand.

Now lets turn our attention to something more serious. Islam was immensely successful in the first few centuries of its birth. It spread like wildfire from Spain to Pakistan. The success was due to the fact that Islam is a warrior religion - the last of its kind today. But the qualities and ethos that led to success are also some of the reasons for its current failure. Today Muslims are among the poorest and most backward people in the world.

Lets take a look at some Islamic beliefs that make no sense unless you realise that Islam was designed to support a war machine. Firstly there is the emphasis of heavenly rewards for its fallen warriors. Just as the ferocious Vikings believed that brave fallen warriors go to Valhalla, Muslims believe that those who are killed in a Holy War (Jihad) go to heaven where they will be rewarded with 72 virgins.

For the conquerors who survived the war, they will get booty and again girls. So either way they win. It is useful for a commander to have brave warriors who do not fear death. Besides this, Muslims are also discouraged from fraternizing with non-Muslims. The Koran tells Muslims not to take Christians and Jews as friends and also says that Idolaters are filthy. Contempt for non-Muslims lead to hate. Hate is a useful emotion to cultivate in your warriors. Compassion and empathy for the “other” do not make willing warriors.

Another martial value that Islam promotes is discipline. It does this in many ways. Firstly, authority is centralized in one person - Mohammed and later his successors. There is no separation of church and state - or should I say mosque and state. This makes sure that there is no opposition. The Roman emperors too made sure that they were unchallenged by appointing themselves Pontifex Maximus (Chief Priest). This is in sharp contrast to medieval European kings whose ambitions were often opposed by the church.

Next, Islam is highly ritualistic and many rituals and practices appear to a modern person to be pointless. For example, out of the five pillars of Islam, four of them are ritualistic and in themselves do not do any material good. Praying five times a day, declaring Mohammed to be a prophet, going to Mecca to walk round and round the Black Stone and fasting during Ramadan do not by themselves make this a happier, kinder and more prosperous world. The only one of the five pillars that does some good to mankind is the giving of the zakat - alms for the poor. However, this alms giving must be only for Muslims or it does not count. Therefore it benefits only a fifth of mankind.

Would it not be better for the Grand Designer of Islam (whoever that might be) to declare the five pillars to contain prohibitions against murder, theft, adultery and encouragements to perform kindness and assistance to the unfortunate people of the world? Besides these five pillars, Islam has countless other rituals and practices. These include the growing of beards, which hand to use to wash your private parts, which shoe to put on first, what types of body hair you are allowed to remove and so on. Some of these practices and rituals appear meaningless to me but on further examination there is a purpose to them.

The trick is to stop thinking that Islam, like other religions, was designed primarily to uplift humanity from barbarism by making us kinder, more forgiving and so on. It was designed instead to support a war machine. Islamic rituals and practices are designed at least partly to induce discipline and to unite Islam’s early followers who were drawn from many tribes. Lets take a look at the requirement to pray five times a day, facing Mecca.

By praying five times a day, Muslims are reminded to submit to God 5 times a day. By facing Mecca, they are reminded of Arabia and to subtly get Muslims to identify themselves with Arabia. That is also why they insist that you cannot understand the Koran fully unless you know Arabic. Prayers are to be made in Arabic. That is why there are so many Arab wannabes among non-Arab Muslims. This is also why to this day, Muslims are a potential fifth column in western countries. Their loyalty is often to their Ummah and not to the state they live in. Loyalty to their nation state is weak.

Rituals are important as brainwashing tools to instill discipline and loyalty.
Islam's focus on rituals remind me of the rituals in the military. Every morning you have a flag raising ceremony. You salute the officers. You must all be clean shaven and wear the same clothes. You sing patriotic songs. Soldiers perform all manner of rituals designed to promote loyalty, bravery and obedience.

Performing Islam's seemingly meaningless rituals is an affirmation that they do not question the will of God. In practice this meant that they do not question Mohammed and his successors. This is really good military discipline and is something all military leaders want.

Now, lets turn our attention to the issue of apostasy for this is an important way in which Islam imposes discipline. As we all know, Islam is the only religion that insists that apostates be put to death. Muslims equate apostasy as treachery. For others, you are a true Christian, Buddhist or Hindu, only if you truly believe. Threatening people with death does not change what they believe in their hearts and is thus pointless.

This Muslim punishment only makes sense if you imagine yourself as a military commander of an army drawn from many tribes and religions (before conversion). An apostate is seen as someone who wants to defect to the enemy. Thus once again, Islamic teaching only make sense if you view Islam not so much as a religion like others but as a tool for Arab imperialism.

There is another thing that I should mention. According to the Koran and Hadiths, Muslims are allowed to have up to four wives and an unlimited number of slave girls. Having multiple wives actually gave a society constantly warring with its neighbours a military advantage over those that practice monogamy.

War widows can find new husbands and thereby produce children. Women were valued chiefly for their procreation abilities to produce more warriors. Of course in all ancient societies, women were lowly valued but more so in a warlike one where the survival of the society depended on male warriors. This accounts for the extra low status Islam gave women.

But what worked well for a medieval war machine is disastrous for Muslims in the modern world. For the early Muslims, they quickly gained wealth and power after they burst out of their poverty stricken Arabian Peninsula. The Arab war machine was supported by the blind obedience, brotherhood, courage, hatred and high birth rates inspired by Islam. But these same qualities have locked modern Muslims into poverty and often violence.

Without separation of mosque and state, it is difficult to make reforms. Islam is described by its followers as a complete way of life. This means that the ancient detailed instructions have been written down for Muslims to follow in all aspects of life for all time. This reminds me of the specialists and generalists of nature.

Some species like the Koala bear are specialists. They have adapted very well to a certain type of environment – the eucalyptus forests of Australia. But they are vulnerable if there is a change in environment. Generalists on the other hand do not evolve special advantages to thrive in any one environment.

Man is a generalist and can be found living in deserts as well as the frozen ice of the tundra. Had we specialized by growing blubber like the whales, we might thrive very well in the tundra but we can never live in deserts.

Islam is like the specialists. It prospered because its ethos makes it very successful as a medieval war machine when men fought with swords, bows and spears. But these same values make Muslims ill-equipped in an industrial and now post industrial world.

The emphasis on jihad where stained soldiers of Allah are rewarded with virgins in heaven may make great warriors but contribute to suicide bombers and intractable wars against unbelievers.

Conflicts with Muslims seem so hard to resolve as there is a never-ending stream of volunteers to fight in hopes of attaining their places in heaven. There can be no moderates when it comes to going to heaven. Inciting hatred for non-believers does not help the resolution of conflicts. Such thinking is bound to get a reaction from the non-believers they come into contact with.

The desire for war cannot be conducive for economic growth. This is doubly disastrous for Muslims because as I shall later explain, their religion retards economic progress in many ways. War coupled with economic weakness spells disaster. One of the driving force for economic growth is technology. While Islam can create disciplined soldiers, it cannot create good scientists.

As explained earlier, Islam’s ritualistic practices inculcate blind obedience among its followers and not questioning inquisitive minds. The way the Koran is taught in traditional Madrassahs is by memorization. This leaves no room for asking questions. The student is not encouraged to ask questions but only receives wisdom and learning from the teacher. Asking questions risks the student of being accused of blasphemy or unbelief.

The learning process is receptive and not interactive. Great scientists and philosophers do not come from such a passive environment. Human society progresses only if you have people willing to challenge orthodoxy. It should be noted that some of the greatest thinkers, scientists, philosophers, physicians and poets in Islam’s golden age were accused of blasphemy or apostasy. Bashshar Ibn Burd, Avicenna, Averroes, Al-Razi and Al-Ma’arri were most likely apostates.

Next we take a look at Islam’s subordination of women. This keeps them at home. Muslim women are not encouraged to work. It is a fact that women who stay at home tend to produce more children than those who go out to work. A high fertility rate may be a military advantage in an era when men fought with primitive weapons, but this is a handicap in the era of the internet.

Firstly, if women are regarded as second class citizens, there is less incentive to educate them properly. Semi-educated or illiterate mothers will find difficulty in educating their own children. Half the population is women. Therefore half the potential labour force is also women. You are not making full use of your human resources. This is not a new problem.

By Averroes time (1126 – 1198), the problem had manifested itself. Five hundred years after Mohammed, Muslim society already needed reforms. The practices that turned warring Arab tribes into world conquerors were already becoming outdated. This is what he said:

“Women are kept like domestic animals or house plants for purposes of gratification, of a very questionable character besides, instead of being allowed to take part in the production of material and intellectual wealth, and in the preservation of the same.”

Furthermore, a high fertility rate means more mouths to feed. While population pressures could be motivation for impoverished tribes to participate in wars of conquest in the 7th century, this is not an option today. You need industrial might to support a war machine today where wars are complex and expensive.

Today, a high fertility rate leads to poverty in third world countries and poverty stricken countries are advised by development experts to curb their population growth. Related to this issue of high fertility is the early age of some Muslim marriages. All agricultural societies tend to have early marriages. But other societies can be more easily persuaded to change with the times.

Muslim society, on the other hand, is more resistance to change. Thus recently, an Indian Muslim group wants exemption from a law requiring marriage partners to be at least 18 years old. This well-meaning law is aimed at allowing time for people to get a proper education before marriage and child-care.

The problem arises for the Muslim community because of Mohammed’s marriage to 9 year old Aisha. To accept this law would in their eyes be an insult to their holy Prophet. How can a Muslim accept a law, which would have criminalized their Prophet? This case again highlights how Islam is stuck in the 7th century.

Islam is a warrior’s creed that served its early followers well. From impoverished desert tribes, they rose to forge an empire in a short time that stretched from Spain to India. The ethos it engendered – brotherhood for believers, contempt and hatred for non-believers, belief in heavenly rewards for fallen warriors, a high fertility rate (which requires the subordination of women), blind obedience – created formidable warriors.

But these same qualities are handicaps for Muslims in the age of the microchip. Today they lead to poverty, belligerency, war and defeat. Many Muslims look back with fondness to their days of glory and try to recover their former days by using the old methods. That is why there is today a rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism across the Muslim world. They are bewildered at their weakness and look for conspiracy theories. Muslims think their failure is due to some Jewish or American plot not realizing that failure comes from within themselves. They are out of touch with reality.

Once were warriors, Muslims are now like Don Quixote tilting at windmills in a world they no longer understand.

[Avante]

Good read but I've read a ton of similiar stuff concerning that weird and wacky world. Have a few CD's on the subject.

It's a very dangerous situation. and everywhere we see Islam we see violence and terror, they still have tribal wars, wow! It's as if Mohammad is still raiding caravans and beheaing non believers.

[sook]

you should read some stuff on early christianity too.

[Avante]

you should read some stuff on early christianity too.

What are we seeing today/right now coming from the Islamic world? How about beheadings, honor killings, hanging people because they left Islam, suicide bombings, terrorism. Do just a tab bit of research on todys Islam and you'll see there is no need to worry about early Christianity.

[Infinite_limit]

What are we seeing today/right now coming from the Islamic world? How about beheadings, honor killings, hanging people because they left Islam, suicide bombings, terrorism. Do just a tab bit of research on todys Islam and you'll see there is no need to worry about early Christianity.
That stuff doesn't really bother me. The beheadings/honor killings/hanging people, well each culture deserves it's own way of things

The terrorism, it's always been how people attack powerful control

My two biggest issues are the women rights. Difficult to move forward when there is so much gender inequality. The other is the fertility rates. It's an extremely out dated view on the World. "We will over run the Globe with our babies" is disrespectful.

[Avante]

That stuff doesn't really bother me. The beheadings/honor killings/hanging people, well each culture deserves it's own way of things

The terrorism, it's always been how people attack powerful control

My two biggest issues are the women rights. Difficult to move forward when there is so much gender inequality. The other is the fertility rates. It's an extremely out dated view on the World. "We will over run the Globe with our babies" is disrespectful.

You do reaize a lot of Americans have died because of Islamic terrorism, right? And that's not a problem with you? Knowing we have people right here in this country who worship a religion where we find beheadings, honor killings, stonings is ok with you, huh?

That whole world is messed up, not just women rights and the fertility rate. What has the Islamic world given the world except oil and terror?

[sook]

What are we seeing today/right now coming from the Islamic world? How about beheadings, honor killings, hanging people because they left Islam, suicide bombings, terrorism. Do just a tab bit of research on todys Islam and you'll see there is no need to worry about early Christianity.

Early christianity was worse in some aspects. I say this as an atheist. Fuck religion in general.

[Avante]

Early christianity was worse in some aspects. I say this as an atheist. Fuck religion in general.

sook, the point is this...

Hell yes all that religious stuff was fucked up way back when, but while the other religions figured it out that things had to change with the times that can't be said about Islam, they are doing the same things they did back in the days of Mohammad, they are primitive and backward. While Christians realize this is 2014 Muslims think it's still.....off with his head!

I;ve found out in my life experiences that the most miserable people are those with no faith in anything. That must suck. Just saying shit like....fuck religion...is so immature. You live in a world founded on religion, don';t look like an idiot about it.

[Infinite_limit]

You do reaize a lot of Americans have died because of Islamic terrorism, right? And that's not a problem with you? Knowing we have people right here in this country who worship a religion where we find beheadings, honor killings, stonings is ok with you, huh?

That whole world is messed up, not just women rights and the fertility rate. What has the Islamic world given the world except oil and terror?
More Muslims have died from American actions, which were done by uniformed representatives which is worse to me.

Beheadings, are you talking about capital punishment?
Honor killings, yes it's bad but I feel this is more of a cultural action
Stonings, we have our own silly murder tactics

I've spent time in Turkey on multiple occasions. I'd like to think it represents the average Muslim society.

[Infinite_limit]

sook, the point is this...

Hell yes all that religious stuff was fucked up way back when, but while the other religions figured it out that things had to change with the times that can't be said about Islam, they are doing the same things they did back in the days of Mohammad, they are primitive and backward. While Christians realize this is 2014 Muslims think it's still.....off with his head!

I;ve found out in my life experiences that the most miserable people are those with no faith in anything. That must suck. Just saying shit like....fuck religion...is so immature. You live in a world founded on religion, don';t look like an idiot about it.
That "Evolution" is also why Western religions are on the decline.

[Avante]

More Muslims have died from American actions, which were done by uniformed representatives which is worse to me.

Beheadings, are you talking about capital punishment?
Honor killings, yes it's bad but I feel this is more of a cultural action
Stonings, we have our own silly murder tactics

I've spent time in Turkey on multiple occasions. I'd like to think it represents the average Muslim society.

So you don't see anything freaky about having public beheadings as if it were a spectator sport? Nothing wrong with a village stoning a young girl to death because she messed around with some guy?

So tell me how many Christians are suicide bombers and belong to a terrorist group? I got the impression you were anti-Islam, no that isn't the case? Then why that long piece speaking negative about it?

[Avante]

That "Evolution" is also why Western religions are on the decline.

Are people smarter or dumber today?

[sook]

More Muslims have died from American actions, which were done by uniformed representatives which is worse to me.

Beheadings, are you talking about capital punishment?
Honor killings, yes it's bad but I feel this is more of a cultural action
Stonings, we have our own silly murder tactics

I've spent time in Turkey on multiple occasions. I'd like to think it represents the average Muslim society.
this is pretty true.

I'll bow out of the religion thread now, too many rants tbh.

[Infinite_limit]

So you don't see anything freaky about having public beheadings as if it were a spectator sport? Nothing wrong with a village stoning a young girl to death because she messed around with some guy?

So tell me how many Christians are suicide bombers and belong to a terrorist group? I got the impression you were anti-Islam, no that isn't the case? Then why that long piece speaking negative about it?
I'm obviously anti-Extreme Islam. But I don't think they are born or preached to be evil people. I think because of outside meddling and their own stubborness, they find themselves at the bottom of the barrel. Much like diamonds are a curse to Africans, oil is a curse to many Muslims.

Christians aren't suicide bombers because they invade and occupy with military force. Jews were committing terrorism just 60 years ago. But Christians do bomb abortion clinics.

[Infinite_limit]

Are people smarter or dumber today?
Ya, the number of followers has been steadily decreasing. USA & Western Europe in particular. But also the bible belt nations of Europe. Ireland, Spain/Portugal, Italy and Poland

[Avante]

I'm obviously anti-Extreme Islam. But I don't think they are born or preached to be evil people. I think because of outside meddling and their own stubborness, they find themselves at the bottom of the barrel. Much like diamonds are a curse to Africans, oil is a curse to many Muslims.

Christians aren't suicide bombers because they invade and occupy with military force. Jews were committing terrorism just 60 years ago. But Christians do bomb abortion clinics.

That...."extreme"....Islam is what gets me. Killing and terrorist activity is Islam nothing extreme about it, that is the fundamentals of the religion. either be one of us or...BOOM! That's why we read...it's those fundamentlists causing the problems. The ones doing what is suppose to be done. Yes most Mulims don't play that but millions of them do.

Islam is the Pit Bull of religions, they will all bite you but it's Islam that is the most dangerous.

Christians don't sneak around like some rat that's what Muslims do.

[Avante]

Ya, the number of followers has been steadily decreasing. USA & Western Europe in particular. But also the bible belt nations of Europe. Ireland, Spain/Portugal, Italy and Poland

A world where nobody believes in a God, now that would be strange. No more Christmas, no more Easter, no more killings as Muslims try to get into Paradise. No more....In God We Trust....One Nation Under God...So Help Me God. No more Pope or Sunday school. All the churches tore down. That would be weird.

No more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_lrrq_opng

[Franklin]

No more poets as well because Avante shamed them all to commit suicide.

[Avante]

Hmmmmm?

"God"

there He sits
high above it all
on a golden throne
behind a mile high wall

He watchs His world
like a father would do
He's watching us all
yes me and you

He sees our weaknesses
how fragile we can be
but He does nothing
thats been His history

He wants us to love Him
accept Him on fate
but He's running out time
soon it will be too late

when it's all over
there is nothing but smoke and gas
there He'll sit
all alone on His ass

[POPownsJackson]

white america thinking they know everything again

[Clipper Nation]

No more poets as well because Avante shamed them all to commit suicide.
:wow..

[DD]

Horrible, horrible religion that cannot adapt to the 21st century. The world is better w/o them

[ChumpDumper]

Avante is terrified. Starts another duplicate thread saying he has a book.

[Ricky Davis]

That stuff doesn't really bother me. The beheadings/honor killings/hanging people, well each culture deserves it's own way of things

The terrorism, it's always been how people attack powerful control

My two biggest issues are the women rights. Difficult to move forward when there is so much gender inequality. The other is the fertility rates. It's an extremely out dated view on the World. "We will over run the Globe with our babies" is disrespectful.


Good read tbh.

Another thing that you didn't mention was that Islam has no central power country (mostly due to being conquered by other nations and country boundaries not matching up to clan boundaries).

For example, Christianity has the US as a central power, Orthodox-Russia, Hindu-India, etc. Islam has none.

[Ricky Davis]

I;ve found out in my life experiences that the most miserable people are those with no faith in anything. That must suck. Just saying shit like....fuck religion...is so immature. You live in a world founded on religion, don';t look like an idiot about it.

QUOTE=Infinite_limit;7336978]That "Evolution" is also why Western religions are on the decline.[/QUOTE]

Ding! Ding! Ding!


we have a winner

[GoodOdor]

This isn't the "real" Islam you guys:(:(:(:(

[spurraider21]

white america thinking they know everything again
must've struck a nerve if you are speaking coherent english :lol

[lefty]

Horrible, horrible religion that cannot adapt to the 21st century. The world is better w/o them
Are you talking about Florida or Southern Indiana ?

[DD]

Are you talking about Florida or Southern Indiana ?

Your people are useless to the advancement of the human race

[lefty]

Your people are useless to the advancement of the human race
We only invented algebra :cry

[DD]

Yet you still don't have running water and modern medicine

[lefty]

Yet you still don't have running water and modern medicine
cuz you stole everything :cry

[DD]

cuz you stole everything :cry

In 'Murica we steal things and make them better. We took Algebra and made Algebra II

[lefty]

In 'Murica we steal things and make them better. We took Algebra and made Algebra II
it's ok we forgive you :cry

And we gave you this dude :cry

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/27/us/man-in-the-news-from-algeria-to-a-dream-elias-adam-zerhouni.html

[spurraider21]

it's ok we forgive you :cry

And we gave you this dude :cry

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/27/us/man-in-the-news-from-algeria-to-a-dream-elias-adam-zerhouni.html
and yet it took an armenian to make the first MR scanning machine and put the technology to use in the medical field :hat

[lefty]

and yet it took an armenian to make the first MR scanning machine and put the technology to use in the medical field :hat
algerian ... armenian


Kinda sound similar TBH

[POPownsJackson]

must've struck a nerve if you are speaking coherent english :lol
been speaking it for a while now, keep up mijo

[Avante]

What do those people (over there) do for fun?

[ChumpDumper]

They start duplicate threads.

[xmas1997]

What do those people (over there) do for fun?

Not a lot.

[Avante]

Anyone still think Islam is a religion of peace and it's just a few .....radicals.....causing all the problems?

Or...

Have you finally figured out that there is no such thing as "radical" Islam and we all are seeing it for what it really is?

[spurraider21]

spanish inquisition

[Ginobilly]

spanish inquisition

has every smart guy here have come to the conclusion that Judaism/Islam are two sides of the same coin. I think Judaism controls Islam at it's core but deceives people to what it really is. There's a reason The Spaniards had to do what they did. The Jews did betray the Spanish when they let in the Muslims.