I'll be really honest, I love timmy but....

[apalisoc_9]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

You are trying too hard to impress those faggots downstairs

[apalisoc_9]

You are trying too hard to impress those faggots downstairs

What?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

You are trying too hard to impress those faggots downstairs

[apalisoc_9]

I've been saying the same thing ever since 2012..If you think I'm trying to impress anyone you have it all wrong.:lol

[RD2191]

Smh. Come on man.

[apalisoc_9]

Smh. Come on man.

I got nothing on timmy man..

I just wanna be honest..I love timmy, but i don't understand why were not allowed to talk about this shit..

Why do we have to be all so emo..

[skulls138]

Of course physically but I dont think mentally. Tim has never led in the stats, he just wins. Also I think hes better at making everyone else around him better.

[Arcadian]

Nope. I'll take a big man over a small forward all day every day.

[MeloHype]

lol

[Dex]

That's your opinion.

And everybody is entitled to their own stupid ass opinion.

[mclinejr]

Great Thread. :clap

[tdunk21]

:lmao:lol:rollin

[Prime Time]

Not going to lie, '08-'09 LeBron James is the best player I've ever seen live. The dude was insane, averaging 39 points | 8 rebounds | 8 assists on nearly 50% shooting while guarding the other team's best perimeter player. I truly feel that was LeBron's most impressive year.

I don't think the gap between LeBron and Duncan is that big, but I could see why Spurs fans would get upset over the thought of it. Duncan is basically god around here, while LeBron is viewed as a whiny bitch who had to form a super-team in order to win titles (stealing #5 in the process.)

It's hard to compare the two because they have such different styles. But if I had to pick one player to build my team around, it would be Duncan. The mixture of consistency, sportsmanship, and anchoring defense would ultimately be the deciding factor for me.

[Skull-1]

You, too, can be as good as Lebron. HGH is a miracle drug!


Duncan is by far the better player. Skill and athleticism are but a part of what makes a GREAT player.

[dg7md]

The fuck? Stupid comparison and dumb thread. They play entirely different positions and have always had a different impact on the game throughout their careers. LeBron can only really be compared to Kobe or MJ.

Go back to the Bron blowers downstairs tbh

[tmtcsc]

Tim Duncan will be considered one of the 5 best players of all time. Too soon to judge Lebron right now.

[IrisHockey]

Welcome

[myhc]

You are trying too hard to impress those faggots downstairs

[hyhy]

I wouldnt call him a "better" player. More like more dominant size-wise and athleticism. Imagine lebron being tony parker's size. Do you think he can do wad parker does?

[spurraider21]

I wouldnt call him a "better" player. More like more dominant size-wise and athleticism. Imagine lebron being tony parker's size. Do you think he can do wad parker does?
that's irrelevant. nobody means "better" as in more skilled. 99% of the time a guard is more skilled than a big. iverson is more skilled than shaq, but lets not pretend iverson was a better player than shaq. better = more effective on the court, more of a positive impact to lead your team to success

[purist]

Lebrun certainly is the bigger douche media whore. So in that regard , yes

[benfti]

There was this bloke wore 23 for the bulls that was pretty good.

[Chinook]

I think Lebron is the best player who ever lived. By default, that means I think James is better than Duncan. But Tim is probably the best championship cornerstone in history. He can be anything you need. A scorer, a defender. A leader, a willing follower. I don't think there's been another player who could affect both sides of the ball as much as Prime Duncan, and that includes Prime James.

If you ask me who I'd rather have in 2K, I'd say Lebron hands down. If you ask me which 22-year-old version of one I'd rather have to start a team, I'd be Tim without hesitation.

[Mikeanaro]

Trash Thread.

[HI-FI]

Lebron is a genetic freak of nature, plus it doesn't hurt to have shit loads of PEDs coursing through your veins. No doubt Lebron is a top 5 all time player.

I'd still take Timmy. While not as physically impressive, he's just a pure competitor and leader, something Lebron is not.

[BC3]

LeBron is grilled meat. Duncan is a slow cooked brisket. Slow Burners baby.

[apalisoc_9]

I think Lebron is the best player who ever lived. By default, that means I think James is better than Duncan. But Tim is probably the best championship cornerstone in history. He can be anything you need. A scorer, a defender. A leader, a willing follower. I don't think there's been another player who could affect both sides of the ball as much as Prime Duncan, and that includes Prime James.

If you ask me who I'd rather have in 2K, I'd say Lebron hands down. If you ask me which 22-year-old version of one I'd rather have to start a team, I'd be Tim without hesitation.



Fair point..this was the only thing I needed to hear from others..A decent conversation.

Wouldn't you consider james a scorer, a defender a leader and a willing follower as well?

[Chinook]

Fair point..this was the only thing I needed to hear from others..A decent conversation.

Wouldn't you consider james a scorer, a defender a leader and a willing follower as well?

Not really a willing follower. I guess he listens to Spo. But I don't think he has nearly as much humility as Duncan does. I think James is a great teammate, but I don't think he can get his teammates to truly identify with him the way Duncan has. I'm sure that James can get there with time, but Tim's been there for about a decade now.

Also, bigs can just affect the game more than forwards can. James is an awesome defender. But he's not an anchor.

[scanry]

Lebron has already surpassed every active player in the league. So yeah, he is better than Duncan.

[hater]

Lebron needed a top 5 bigman and top 3 sg to win his first title. he then needed the best shooter ever to bail his ass out for his 2nd ship. that's right, let's not forget had a Ginobilesque 6 Turnovers in that game 6. Bailed out.

I think we can safely say prime TD >>>> Lebron

no ifs ands or buts

[ChumpDumper]

Look everybody -- apalisoc_9 started a thread!

[spurraider21]

yeah, if i'm starting a franchise and i could choose either one of them at 21 years old to begin with, i don't feel like I could go wrong. Its easier to build around a dominant big man.

[TheRemix]

they're both special in their own ways

[Malik Hairston]

Lebron is actually comparable to Duncan in so many ways as a basketball player, tbh:lol..

If you remove the personality/media coverage aspect, their style of basketball is so similar..they're both elite 2-way players that play team-oriented basketball, only shoot excessively when they are asked to do it, both took pay cuts for the benefit of their teams, neither guy has ever had an off-court incident or problems with teammates, etc..

They are also 2 of only 3 players(IIRC) in the modern era to lead a team to a title while leading Points, Assists, Rebounds and one of Blocks/Steals..2003 Duncan, 1994 Hakeem and 2013 Lebron are the 3 players that carried their team to a title with relatively limited support, probably the 3 most well-rounded players I've ever seen..

Lebron is compared to Dad Killer and even Kobe, because the media ignorantly compares the hype of players, rather than their actual style..Lebron is much closer to a Magic and Duncan type of team player, which explains his admiration for Duncan and why he said Tim is the best player of the post-Jordan generation..

[Spursfanfromafar]

Lebron is actually comparable to Duncan in so many ways as a basketball player, tbh:lol..

If you remove the personality/media coverage aspect, their style of basketball is so similar..they're both elite 2-way players that play team-oriented basketball, only shoot excessively when they are asked to do it, both took pay cuts for the benefit of their teams, neither guy has ever had an off-court incident or problems with teammates, etc..

They are also 2 of only 3 players(IIRC) in the modern era to lead a team to a title while leading Points, Assists, Rebounds and one of Blocks/Steals..2003 Duncan, 1994 Hakeem and 2013 Lebron are the 3 players that carried their team to a title with relatively limited support, probably the 3 most well-rounded players I've ever seen..

Lebron is compared to Dad Killer and even Kobe, because the media ignorantly compares the hype of players, rather than their actual style..Lebron is much closer to a Magic and Duncan type of team player, which explains his admiration for Duncan and why he said Tim is the best player of the post-Jordan generation..

Except he took his talents to the South Beach....

[gilmor]

who gives a fuck

[spurraider21]

who gives a fuck
who gives a fuck about basketball discussion on a basketball forum? probably most of us tbh

[Prose]

I'm new here, what do you mean by downstairs? Like the next person to post on the thread? Lol

[Prose]

You are trying too hard to impress those faggots downstairs

I'm new here, what do you mean by downstairs? Like the next person to post on the thread? Lol

[Prose]

Not going to lie, '08-'09 LeBron James is the best player I've ever seen live. The dude was insane, averaging 39 points | 8 rebounds | 8 assists on nearly 50% shooting while guarding the other team's best perimeter player. I truly feel that was LeBron's most impressive year.

I don't think the gap between LeBron and Duncan is that big, but I could see why Spurs fans would get upset over the thought of it. Duncan is basically god around here, while LeBron is viewed as a whiny bitch who had to form a super-team in order to win titles (stealing #5 in the process.)

It's hard to compare the two because they have such different styles. But if I had to pick one player to build my team around, it would be Duncan. The mixture of consistency, sportsmanship, and anchoring defense would ultimately be the deciding factor for me.

[SpurSwag]

I agree with you OP, Duncan is a top 8 all time, I think Lebron will be top 5

[Asshole]

I agree with you OP, Duncan is a top 8 all time, I think Lebron will be top 5

Thanks for chiming in with some rankings. My soul is now fulfilled spiritually.

[Texas_Ranger]

when LeBron wins a tittle without an All-Star on his team I'll look at this shit.

[Asshole]

when LeBron wins a tittle without an All-Star on his team I'll look at this shit.

I've never prayed to any god more than to hear your response after looking at the shit.

[spurraider21]

I'm new here, what do you mean by downstairs? Like the next person to post on the thread? Lol
"upstairs" is here, the spurs forum. "downstairs" is the NBA forum

[Clipper Nation]

Except he took his talents to the South Beach....
....and Tim was lucky enough to be drafted by a team that already had DRob and competent people in charge (as opposed to Cleveland), and STILL had to be talked out of signing with Orlando at the last second....

The whining about LeBron leaving is so played-out and old.... he's not the only superstar to change teams, and he honestly wasted too much of his prime giving Cleveland chance after chance to build a team around him while they failed every time.... why did the Cavs deserve his loyalty when they did absolutely nothing to earn it?

[Kidd K]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?

You clearly didn't see Jordan play then. Or Hakeem. Or prime Shaq. Or prime Duncan. Even prime DRob tbh. If you want to play the what if game, if DRob had players like Wade and Bosh helping him, he never would probably have extra rings before Timmy got drafted.


LeBron is great, no doubt. He is the great player right now. But there is a great player like him every 5 years. It isn't unique.

[100%duncan]

Both are best players of their generation but have different roles and position. IMHO thinking Lebron is better is not idiotic, dude can go down as greatest of all time tbh.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Great take OP :tu I've sent to my brother to read, and will continue recommending to family and friends.

[pgardn]

Haterstradamus strikes again


Strikes out...

[spurspokesman]

.........................

[Spur|n|Austin]

TD's style is so much more fundamental than LBJ's.

http://rollingout.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cheaters-tim-duncan.jpg

[will_spurs]

You are trying too hard to impress those faggots downstairs

/thread

[silverblackfan]

You might have some kind of argument if Lebron had carried his team to a ring with some fairly unknown players. Doing this in the West would help your argument.

Tim is a franchise waiting to be built. Lebron is good advertising.

[Oh, Gee!!]

They are equivalent as far as their importance to their respective teams. Lebron will likely be the most important miami player of all time like duncan is for us.

[dunkman]

People have forgotten how good was Duncan in the '99 and '03 runs. While in '99 he had a solid support from DRob, who was still all-star and all defensive player, in '03 there was just Timmy. Pop was great coaching defense, but his offense coaching was only average then. Without prime Shaq plus Kobe in his way from '00 to '02 coached by the master of defense and efficient triangle offense Phil Jax, Duncan would have won some additional titles. Shaq was impressed by that '03 run and named Tim the "big fundamental".

Today, Spurs success is more based on Pop offensive and defensive systems then individual talent, but Duncan is still one of Spurs best two players (the other being Parker).

LeBron's championship teams were loaded with talent. He failed to win it all in '07, but bigman have greater impact on the game. It's not just the efficient indefensive scoring, it's also the rebounding and defense.

Duncan's championship count is anything but over. The Spurs were second from winning the 5-th last seasons in game 6 (Duncan would have won the finals MVP, he played better then LeBron btw) and are 2:0 in the WCF's this season.

[Prose]

"upstairs" is here, the spurs forum. "downstairs" is the NBA forum
Thanks

[sammy]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?

Fuck No! He's allowed to barrel into anyone, travel and gets bailed out on calls! Please he's a joke!

[sammy]

....and Tim was lucky enough to be drafted by a team that already had DRob and competent people in charge (as opposed to Cleveland), and STILL had to be talked out of signing with Orlando at the last second....

.The whining about LeBron leaving is so played-out and old... he's not the only superstar to change teams, and he honestly wasted too much of his prime giving Cleveland chance after chance to build a team around him while they failed every time.... why did the Cavs deserve his loyalty when they did absolutely nothing to earn it?

The reason people were so angry is that idiot kept jerking them around without making a decision and by the time he decided which I think he already knew he was leaving, all of the free agents were gone and Cleveland got nothing! He should've told management he was not going to stay and they could've signed a good free agent but kept them hoping and left! They got nothing! The embarrassment of the decision on TV was horrible to those fans! So I don't blame them for being angry!

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

Duncan makes teammates better. LeBron doesn't. Don't think Duncan doesn't deserve some of the credit for Danny Green playing so well in SA while playing like crap in Cleveland. In a recent interview when he was asked why he's so confident when he shoots, he said it's because he always hears Timmy in his head saying "Light it" or something like that. Duncan gets the most out of his teammates, LeBron just wants a supporting cast so he can get a ring. Look at Wade and Bosh since LeBron went to Miami, they regressed.

[Aztecfan03]

I've never prayed to any god more than to hear your response after looking at the shit.

Well your username is definitely fitting.

[poop]

Not going to lie, '08-'09 LeBron James is the best player I've ever seen live. The dude was insane, averaging 39 points | 8 rebounds | 8 assists on nearly 50% shooting while guarding the other team's best perimeter player. I truly feel that was LeBron's most impressive year.I don't think the gap between LeBron and Duncan is that big, but I could see why Spurs fans would get upset over the thought of it. Duncan is basically god around here, while LeBron is viewed as a whiny bitch who had to form a super-team in order to win titles (stealing #5 in the process.)It's hard to compare the two because they have such different styles. But if I had to pick one player to build my team around, it would be Duncan. The mixture of consistency, sportsmanship, and anchoring defense would ultimately be the deciding factor for me.Statistically, that was his best year...his playoff numbers that year were staggering. An arguement can be made that he is one of the top 5 most effective players ever...certainly numbers wise.the crazy thing tho is that hes still not even close to jordan, whose numbers were so high he has no competition for best of all tike, not even close.

[poop]

Statistically, that was his best year...his playoff numbers that year were staggering. An arguement can be made that he is one of the top 5 most effective players ever...certainly numbers wise.the crazy thing tho is that hes still not even close to jordan, whose numbers were so high he has no competition for best of all time, and even lebron is not even close.

[poop]

I dont really get people saying lebron doesnt make his team better..the guy averaged more assists than tony parker most of his career, and most of his career was spent on a team full of total scrubs

[davidbowie]

who doesnt agree with this lebron is gonna be the goat when he retires thats why we have to beat him this year

[poop]

who doesnt agree with this lebron is gonna be the goat when he retires thats why we have to beat him this yearHe wont be ahead of jordan. Its already too late. Jordans numbers..not to mention rings..crush even lebrons

[ducks]

once they catch james with steroids people will bash him

[hitmantb]

LeBron achieved as much as Jordan did at same age, actually more.

Ray Allen's 3 already at least tied him with Duncan. That is not a knock on him, Duncan had a very bad series against the Pistons and needed Horry to bail him out. Everyone needs help.

4 MVP, 2 FMVP > 2 MVP and 3 FMVP. MVP > FMVP (same reason most would rank Nash ahead of Parker back then, much harder to carry a team for a full season than 4 games). # of championships doesn't mean as much as MVP/FMVP, otherwise Kobe would be ahead of Duncan which we all know is not true. Whether Duncan deserved 2007 FMVP over Parker is irrelevant when people compare all time greats.

If LeBron wins this year he is top 5 all time, Duncan is stuck in 6-10. Unfortunately for Duncan he plays with a small market team and inferior talents to the three-peat teams (Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, LeBron/Wade?). Popovich did not become the best coach in the league until he is stuck with a really crappy set of cards and have to come up with the greatest system in the history of basketball.

So yes Duncan is my favorite player and I personally believe he would be even higher in rankings if he played for a big market team, but in most rankings, LeBron would already be ahead of him today and unless LeBron gets hit by a big injury and wins no further MVP/FMVP's from here on, he will definitely be ahead of Duncan by the time he is done.

[exstatic]

Tim never left to get his friends to help him win a title.

[hitmantb]

Tim never left to get his friends to help him win a title.

If Tim was drafted by Cleveland you bet he would.

Are we saying if your management can't get you a good team/coach you should punish yourself forever?

[poop]

LeBron achieved as much as Jordan did at same age, actually more.Ray Allen's 3 already at least tied him with Duncan. That is not a knock on him, Duncan had a very bad series against the Pistons and needed Horry to bail him out. Everyone needs help. 4 MVP, 2 FMVP > 2 MVP and 3 FMVP. MVP > FMVP (same reason most would rank Nash ahead of Parker back then, much harder to carry a team for a full season than 4 games). # of championships doesn't mean as much as MVP/FMVP, otherwise Kobe would be ahead of Duncan which we all know is not true. Whether Duncan deserved 2007 FMVP over Parker is irrelevant when people compare all time greats. If LeBron wins this year he is top 5 all time, Duncan is stuck in 6-10. Unfortunately for Duncan he plays with a small market team and inferior talents to the three-peat teams (Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, LeBron/Wade?). Popovich did not become the best coach in the league until he is stuck with a really crappy set of cards and have to come up with the greatest system in the history of basketball. So yes Duncan is my favorite player and I personally believe he would be even higher in rankings if he played for a big market team, but in most rankings, LeBron would already be ahead of him today and unless LeBron gets hit by a big injury and wins no further MVP/FMVP's from here on, he will definitely be ahead of Duncan by the time he is done.Lol dont quite see your logic here...Go back and review the numbers. Lebron is by far the biggest stats monster of his generation. His numbers are some of the biggest of all time. That said, they are still FAR behind jordans. Jordans numbers are so far ahead of anyone in the modern era, its crazy. And his playoff numbers were EVEN HIGHER...Jordan won his first title 6 years in, sooner that lebron. He won 3 in a row....twice. he is a SIX TIME Finals MVP. Its already too late for lebron to eclipse or even match jordan's stats...and he has a LONG way to go to match him in the winning department.

[Vic Petro]

If Lebron is the best player you've ever seen in your life, the first question I have is how old are you? Anyone who saw Michael Jordan play knows there is no argument in terms of who is the best player.

In my opinion Lebron has a little ways to go to pass Timmy. Lebron is knocking on the door of top 10 all time player. Duncan is currently in the top 6 (though probably can't move any higher). I can see Bron being considered top 5 by the time he is done.

Along those lines, how many peak years does Lebron have left? Going into his age 30 season and, more importantly, a ton of mileage on his body. Does he have more than 5 peak years left?

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

Also, LeBron played in an extremely weak era in terms of stars. His MVP's came with hardly any competition. Look at who he had to go against. Dwight Howard, Carmello Anthony, Blake Griffin, Chris Paul, young Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose who broke himself, he had some very lame competition. Tim had Kobe, Shaq, Vince Carter, Dirk, Nash, much harder competition. LeBron is lucky to have played in a very weak era of basketball in terms of star power. So given that, his MVP's don't speak as loudly to me as much as MJ's or even Duncan's do, besides, we all know Duncan should've gotten three MVP's.

[poop]

Jordan averaged over 30ppg 8 times..if he hadnt left those 2 seasons he would have had 10 consecutive seasons over 30 ppg..the crazy part is that his average fg% during that time was .52!!!!!

[poop]

Jordans stat line for 88-89 season:32.5 ppg, 8 rb, 8 ast, 2.9 st, shooting fucking .538 from the floor and .85 at the line.

[sammy]

once they catch james with steroids people will bash him

I agree! If you tested him and Wade, I bet they are full of steroids!

[Cry Havoc]

Some painfully ignorant Spurs fans in this thread.

Of course, it's a stupid thread, so that sort of lines up.

[Clipper Nation]

The reason people were so angry is that idiot kept jerking them around without making a decision and by the time he decided which I think he already knew he was leaving, all of the free agents were gone and Cleveland got nothing! He should've told management he was not going to stay and they could've signed a good free agent but kept them hoping and left! They got nothing! The embarrassment of the decision on TV was horrible to those fans! So I don't blame them for being angry!
So the Cavs were magically going to sign a good player if he stayed after failing to do so for his entire career at the time? Riiiiight :lol

[hitmantb]

Comparing stats is like looking at Robinson/Malone stats and say Duncan isn't as good because of stats.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/j/lebron_james_vs_michael_jordan.htm

LeBron started at an younger age and is physically stronger than Jordan. It is very possible he can play for 4-5 more years at peak. He only needs 1 more regular season MVP to tie Jordan on that regard. If he wins a title this year he will only need 3 more and he is only 29, it is completely possible!

No one will remember era's, super friends, or any of that stuff. 20 years from now they will only compare the number of MVP's and FMVP's.

[hitmantb]

Comparing stats is like looking at Robinson/Malone stats and say Duncan isn't as good because of stats.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/j/lebron_james_vs_michael_jordan.htm

LeBron started at an younger age and is physically stronger than Jordan. It is very possible he can play for 4-5 more years at peak. He only needs 1 more regular season MVP to tie Jordan on that regard. If he picks up a title this year he will only need 3 more and he is only 29, it is completely possible!

No one will remember era's, super friends, or any of that stuff. 20 years from now they will only compare the number of MVP's and FMVP's.

[poeticism707]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?

What are you, 12, son?

Kobe before his injury was hands down better than Bron.

And Kobe ain't the Goat.

You also forget to take into account how many times TD and the Spurs have been fixed right out the playoffs.

Go watch some old playoff series,

and use those eyes in your head,

to see what actually happened.

TD is better than Bron and Kobe.

End of Story.

[Horse]

No way Duncan would've won no matter who drafted him lebron couldn't win till he had the superfriends. Because of this lebron can never be in his or jordan, magic, birds class guys who made players around them better and won where they were drafted. Duncan is a better defender. In his prime could've scored all the points he wanted but instead just did whatever his team needed. Duncan may be the best ever when it's all done. Even though he'll never get the recognition. Let's see what lebron does at 38 when he can't run over people or blow by them.

[james evans]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?
luxury? LEBRON HAS PLAYED IN THE AWFUL EAST HIS ENTIRE CAREER!!!! how is tim duncan playing in the west a luxury. do u remember the 2003 playoffs. 2nd year tony parker, 2nd year ginobli, speedy claxton, devon brown, 1 foot in the grave david robinson getting heavy minutes. what is this luxury u speak of? lebron is playing in the east with 2 other top players i the league at the moments. cmon man u can't be serious

[james evans]

What are you, 12, son?

Kobe before his injury was hands down better than Bron.

And Kobe ain't the Goat.

You also forget to take into account how many times TD and the Spurs have been fixed right out the playoffs.

Go watch some old playoff series,

and use those eyes in your head,

to see what actually happened.

TD is better than Bron and Kobe.

End of Story.
like in 2006 when the mavs shot over 20 freethrows in the 4th quarter of one game. and when the mavs and spurs both had the 2nd and 3rd best record of the ENTIRE NBA but stern started that divisional bullshit which meant the best 2 teams in the west played each other in the 2nd round. .4 seconds in 2004, derrick fisher was allowed to catch the ball, turn around, and then fade away. 2012 against the thunder, well u know what happened in game 6. yep, we've been fuked quite a bit.

[james evans]

Some painfully ignorant Spurs fans in this thread.

Of course, it's a stupid thread, so that sort of lines up.
why would u think they are spurs fans? they are the equivalent of a police informant. they log in as "spurs fans" but talk nonsense to later say, "see, i have no bias, i'm a spurs fan.."

[sexinthatsx]

why would u think they are spurs fans? they are the equivalent of a police informant. they log in as "spurs fans" but talk nonsense to later say, "see, i have no bias, i'm a spurs fan.."

Apalisoc sucks Lebron's dick more than anybody I've ever seen in this forum. He's a closet Heat fan at the very least.

[Mikeanaro]

Apalisoc sucks Lebron's dick more than anybody I've ever seen in this forum. He's a closet Heat fan at the very least.
He sucks KD too, I bet his wetdream is having Lebron KD and Kawhi on his bed, a truly SF fetishist.

[TDfan2007]

Lebron is actually comparable to Duncan in so many ways as a basketball player, tbh:lol..

If you remove the personality/media coverage aspect, their style of basketball is so similar..they're both elite 2-way players that play team-oriented basketball, only shoot excessively when they are asked to do it, both took pay cuts for the benefit of their teams, neither guy has ever had an off-court incident or problems with teammates, etc..

They are also 2 of only 3 players(IIRC) in the modern era to lead a team to a title while leading Points, Assists, Rebounds and one of Blocks/Steals..2003 Duncan, 1994 Hakeem and 2013 Lebron are the 3 players that carried their team to a title with relatively limited support, probably the 3 most well-rounded players I've ever seen..

Lebron is compared to Dad Killer and even Kobe, because the media ignorantly compares the hype of players, rather than their actual style..Lebron is much closer to a Magic and Duncan type of team player, which explains his admiration for Duncan and why he said Tim is the best player of the post-Jordan generation..

/Thread.

Legitimate arguments can be made for either player over the other. They're the two best players of their respective generations and they play this game the way it was meant to be played.

[Johnny RIngo]

Kobe before his injury was hands down better than Bron.

:lol horrible take

[Sean Cagney]

LeBron achieved as much as Jordan did at same age, actually more.

Ray Allen's 3 already at least tied him with Duncan. That is not a knock on him, Duncan had a very bad series against the Pistons and needed Horry to bail him out. Everyone needs help.

4 MVP, 2 FMVP > 2 MVP and 3 FMVP. MVP > FMVP (same reason most would rank Nash ahead of Parker back then, much harder to carry a team for a full season than 4 games). # of championships doesn't mean as much as MVP/FMVP, otherwise Kobe would be ahead of Duncan which we all know is not true. Whether Duncan deserved 2007 FMVP over Parker is irrelevant when people compare all time greats.

If LeBron wins this year he is top 5 all time, Duncan is stuck in 6-10. Unfortunately for Duncan he plays with a small market team and inferior talents to the three-peat teams (Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, LeBron/Wade?). Popovich did not become the best coach in the league until he is stuck with a really crappy set of cards and have to come up with the greatest system in the history of basketball.

So yes Duncan is my favorite player and I personally believe he would be even higher in rankings if he played for a big market team, but in most rankings, LeBron would already be ahead of him today and unless LeBron gets hit by a big injury and wins no further MVP/FMVP's from here on, he will definitely be ahead of Duncan by the time he is done.Jordan would probably have 8 rings if he did not retire the first time. I doubt Lebron gets near that.

[KL2]

Just imagine if prime TD had the luxury of playing against today's bigs, he's a shell of his former self but can still go head to head with the best. This guy was going up against prime KG, Sheed and Ben Wallace, Shaq, O'Neal, Webber etc.

I honestly think he could've easily averaged 30+ PPG in his prime if he really wanted to, but he's so chill that it doesn't matter to him.

[Clipper Nation]

luxury?
Yes, getting drafted by a competent franchise with DRob already in place instead of the joke that is Cleveland IS a luxury....

[Hoops Czar]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?

You're trying to hard Harlem.

[SpursWoman]

Arguments can be made for either of them.


I just wish Timmy would get his own app. :spin

[Sean Cagney]

Just imagine if prime TD had the luxury of playing against today's bigs, he's a shell of his former self but can still go head to head with the best. This guy was going up against prime KG, Sheed and Ben Wallace, Shaq, O'Neal, Webber etc.

I honestly think he could've easily averaged 30+ PPG in his prime if he really wanted to, but he's so chill that it doesn't matter to him.
He still abuses todays younger bigs, you are right lol.

[james evans]

Yes, getting drafted by a competent franchise with DRob already in place instead of the joke that is Cleveland IS a luxury....
ummm, david robinson only won 2 titles with timmy. and one of those he was running on fumes.

[DMC]

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/l/t1.0-9/s720x720/10253905_1388967084718361_4538174490893009785_n.jp g

[apalisoc_9]

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/l/t1.0-9/s720x720/10253905_1388967084718361_4538174490893009785_n.jp g

DMC masturbating to my pics..

C'mon man you're better than that :lol

[aal04]

Firstly, peak/onfire Kobe is > TD/LBJ and anyone not named MJ or Shaq.

He was a beast. Even Dirk said hes the most impossible guy to stop even when it was 1v5.

Secondly, Basketball is a big mans game. Anyone under 6'10 needs major help for a ring.

MJ had Pippen, LBJ had wade/Bosh/Allen. Kobe Shaq/Pau/Bynum

The only people who can solo a ring are big men. Hakeem, Duncan 03.

Too many statwhores. People like Ibaka/Duncan/Hakeem/Shaq alter shots. People like MJ/Kobe alter defensive game plans including commiting more than 1 player. This cannot be measured in stats.

I said before that id trade Ibaka sitting out the series for Parker, and i still stand by it.

LBJ isnt in the same league as Duncan and imo can never be. BBall is a tall mans game. Number of people under 6ft in nba ? 1/4,000,000,000? number of people who make nba over 7ft? 1/2

[benstanfield]

Can we save these arguments for after Lebron's athleticism declines? Or at least when he wins one with a supporting cast akin to 2003 Spurs?

Also, aside from transition highlight dunks (which personally I really don't care about but I understand those who do), Lebron's game is absolutely putrid to watch compared to most of the alltime greats save maybe Shaq. Even Shaq was relatively exciting simply because it was a spectacle to see such a physically dominant giant of a man. In the halfcourt Lebron is an NFL linebacker that can dribble through people and make layups. Effective, hard to guard, but just kinda boring IMO. He's a good-not-great passer, a good-not-great shooter, and always a great box score, but when you look at Lebron highlights on Youtube it's just fastbreak dunks, alley-oops, and bulldoze layups.

From a speculative standpoint, I never really get this sense that Lebron is willing his team to victory in the same way that MJ/Kobe/TD did. This probably has to do with having a better supporting cast or the less iso-centric league in general, but I seldom watch a Heat game and think "Wow Lebron was unstoppable tonight, he could've beaten the martians from space jam". It's always just a passive "Yep, Lebron was the best player on the court and the Heat won."

I wonder whether OP thinks LBJ would be as successful in the era of prime Duncan, Shaq, Webber, KG, Yao, Mutombo, Wallace, etc? What prime bigs can Lebron say he's overcome? Dwert? Joakim Noah?

[Baam]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?

What luxury did Duncan have over Lebron, LeBron won rings with much more help... LeBron even cost Wade a ring in 2011 when he choked big time...

[Malik Hairston]

Firstly, peak/onfire Kobe is > TD/LBJ and anyone not named MJ or Shaq.

He was a beast. Even Dirk said hes the most impossible guy to stop even when it was 1v5.

Secondly, Basketball is a big mans game. Anyone under 6'10 needs major help for a ring.

MJ had Pippen, LBJ had wade/Bosh/Allen. Kobe Shaq/Pau/Bynum

The only people who can solo a ring are big men. Hakeem, Duncan 03.

Too many statwhores. People like Ibaka/Duncan/Hakeem/Shaq alter shots. People like MJ/Kobe alter defensive game plans including commiting more than 1 player. This cannot be measured in stats.

I said before that id trade Ibaka sitting out the series for Parker, and i still stand by it.

LBJ isnt in the same league as Duncan and imo can never be. BBall is a tall mans game. Number of people under 6ft in nba ? 1/4,000,000,000? number of people who make nba over 7ft? 1/2

Lebron won a solo title last year:lol..his 2nd option averaged 15 PPG and had net-negative on/off metrics, and his 3rd option averaged 12 PPG and constantly disappeared in the playoffs..

And Kobe as a scorer is as good as anybody in history, sure, but he's nowhere near any of these players in these arguments..he ranks relatively poorly in virtually every advanced metric and had more support than any player in any of these arguments, too..he's also been a proven cancer in the latter part of his career, sabotaging a stacked Lakers team in 2012 and killing the Lakers future by accepting one of the worst contracts in history..

[biskvito]

bump this thread when Lebron is 38, then we can have a sane comparison... you'll also need to watch the TD in his prime on a daily basis to get an idea of his level ...

[Clipper Nation]

ummm, david robinson only won 2 titles with timmy. and one of those he was running on fumes.
Old DRob > the trash Cleveland put around LeBron

Duncan also had Pop, whereas LeBron had Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, and Mike Brown :lol

[Clipper Nation]

Firstly, peak/onfire Kobe is > TD/LBJ and anyone not named MJ or Shaq.
:lmao..

[Hoops Czar]

Lebron won a solo title last year:lol..his 2nd option averaged 15 PPG and had net-negative on/off metrics, and his 3rd option averaged 12 PPG and constantly disappeared in the playoffs...

Let's be clear about something. Lebron nearly cost his team a championship if it wasn't for a massive choke job and a clutch three from Allen. It's clever how you worded it. Had the Spurs won, you'd be blaming the rest of the team for losing it for Lebron but, since they won, Lebron did it solo.

[Malik Hairston]

Let's be clear about something. Lebron nearly cost his team a championship if it wasn't for a massive choke job and a clutch three from Allen. It's clever how you worded it. Had the Spurs won, you'd be blaming the rest of the team for losing it for Lebron but, since they won, Lebron did it solo.

How exactly did Lebron nearly cost his team a title?..he was literally the only Heat player that initiated their offense during the Finals, while guarding the Spurs best player for the last 2 games of the series:lol..

[xmas1997]

That's your opinion.

And everybody is entitled to their own stupid ass opinion.

And "that" is exactly the "problem" with "opinions", they are like assholes, everyone has one, and no one thinks theirs stink!
:lol

[Skull-1]

Look everybody -- I have a vagina AND a beard.


Look everybody, ChumpLegHumper just took a dump in another thread!

(FIFY)

[xmas1997]

Look everybody, ChumpLegHumper just took a dump in another thread!

(FIFY)

This is par for his course tbh.
Doesn't need to be said IMHO.

[Skull-1]

What are you, 12, son?

Kobe before his injury was hands down better than Bron.

And Kobe ain't the Goat.

You also forget to take into account how many times TD and the Spurs have been fixed right out the playoffs.

Go watch some old playoff series,

and use those eyes in your head,

to see what actually happened.

TD is better than Bron and Kobe.

End of Story.

[Skull-1]

This is par for his course tbh.
Doesn't need to be said IMHO.

:toast

[Hoops Czar]

How exactly did Lebron nearly cost his team a title?..he was literally the only Heat player that initiated their offense during the Finals, while guarding the Spurs best player for the last 2 games of the series:lol..

Two costly TO's in the closing minutes of Game 6 along with some badly clanked three's, one of which was so bad , it caromed to Bosh, who dished to Allen for three. I know you want to make this all about Lebron, but Dwayne Wade had a pretty good series and he wasn't even at 100%.


Game 1: 17 points 7-15 FG
Game 2: 10 points, 6 assists 5-13 FG
Game 3: 16 points , 5 assists, 4 steals 7-15 FG
Game 4: 32 points, 6 steals 14-25 FG
Game 5: 25 points, 10 assists 10-22 FG
Game 6: 14 points 6-15 FG
Game 7: 23 points, 10 Rebounds 11-21 FG

Had Lebron been on his own and had the Spurs been healthy, they don't win the series.

By guarding the Spurs best player, I think you mean a hobbled Tony Parker who could at times, barely get up the floor.

[Malik Hairston]

Two costly TO's in the closing minutes of Game 6 along with some badly clanked three's, one of which was so bad , it caromed to Bosh, who dished to Allen for three. I know you want to make this all about Lebron, but Dwayne Wade had a pretty good series and he wasn't even at 100%.


Game 1: 17 points 7-15 FG
Game 2: 10 points, 6 assists 5-13 FG
Game 3: 16 points , 5 assists, 4 steals 7-15 FG
Game 4: 32 points, 6 steals 14-25 FG
Game 5: 25 points, 10 assists 10-22 FG
Game 6: 14 points 6-15 FG
Game 7: 23 points, 10 Rebounds 11-21 FG

Had Lebron been on his own and had the Spurs been healthy, they don't win the series.

By guarding the Spurs best player, I think you mean a hobbled Tony Parker who could at times, barely get up the floor.

The Heat were -54 in the series when Wade was on the floor:lol..

He only averaged 15 PPG for the playoffs and was a net negative, overall, sadly..

And can't forget the great Chris Bosh that averaged 12 and 7 for the playoffs while being decimated and destroyed by Roy Hibbert, David West and Tim Duncan..

[Hoops Czar]

The Heat were -54 in the series when Wade was on the floor:lol..

He only averaged 15 PPG for the playoffs and was a net negative, overall, sadly..

A pretty worthless measurement when gauging one's performance unless your referring to the great white hope, in which case, it's OK. For example, Lebron was a +/- 0 in the finals; Mario Chamers was a + 32. Should Chalmers be Finals MVP?

[Hoops Czar]

The Heat were -54 in the series when Wade was on the floor:lol..

He only averaged 15 PPG for the playoffs and was a net negative, overall, sadly..

And can't forget the great Chris Bosh that averaged 12 and 7 for the playoffs while being decimated and destroyed by Roy Hibbert, David West and Tim Duncan..

Chris Bosh is getting destroyed this postseason as well. Nothing new there. He's mentally weak.

[Malik Hairston]

A pretty worthless measurement when gauging one's performance unless your referring to the great white hope, in which case, it's OK. For example, Lebron was a +/- 0 in the finals; Mario Chamers was a + 32. Should Chalmers be Finals MVP?

Chalmers' usage is nowhere near those players, obviously..

Lebron and Wade had similar usage rates in the Finals/playoffs, yet one of them was vastly superior to the other in on/off metrics, along with off/def rating metrics..

I'm not really sure how anybody can argue for Wade's value in the playoffs..his struggles were widely discussed/recognized by everybody last year, he was pretty awful..he looks much better this season..

[cjw]

How many of these guys have won a title or even competing without a superstar free agent coming onboard or having multiple lottery picks. Timmy has had neither - no pick inside of 20 since he joined (the top two highest drafted guys on the team besides him are Kawhi and Daye at #15, and neither were the Spurs' pick) and no tier 1 free agent.

[ChumpDumper]

Look everybody, my butt hurts!

[james evans]

Old DRob > the trash Cleveland put around LeBron

Duncan also had Pop, whereas LeBron had Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, and Mike Brown :lol
u mean the trash, as in Illgauskus that was playing every good when lebron was getting shut down by the celtics in the 2nd round of 2008? that trash?

[poeticism707]

I honestly think Lebron is a better overall player. IMO, if lebron had the same luxury as duncan, at 29 he'd probably have 5 rings by now.

I really hate to say it..but Lebron is the best player I've ever seen play..

Anyone agree?

Still think TD has gotten a fair shake in his career after Game 3?

Or is the NBA all tullips and flowers of fair play, and unbiased officiating?