Does Kobrick crack the top 10 of All Time,,,,

[HemisfairArena]

if he cant ride another big man to a 6th title? Pippen won 6 titles as a sidekick and he's nowhere near top 10. When DHoward shit on Kobricks fake legacy and left,,,time is running out for him. All that may be left is The Tape part 2 coming soon for Laker fans to enjoy in the future.

[Venti Quattro]

Is Duncan top 10 without Amy?

[Cry Havoc]

Kobe won't ring again. The best he can do is 10th, but should be 11-13.

[Katherine Robinson]

No, but he's earned himself a fairly high place in the big picture of NBA history.

[Thebesteva]

I couldn't find a single list without him in the top 10 tbh. Its only to delusional butt hurt fans here that he's somewhere in the 20-30th place of all time. At the end of the day, he surpassed all his peers of his generation (lebrons not his generation) and his place is safe.

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Slam Magazine has him 10th
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Fox sports @ 8th
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#photo-title=Kobe+Bryant+%25281996-present%2529&photo=30219332

[KobeOwnsDuncan]

Kobe won't ring again. The best he can do is 10th, but should be 11-13.
We know he can repeat.

[DPG21920]

No, but he's earned himself a fairly high place in the big picture of NBA history.

I think this is the best way to think of it. As HH said, with the proliferation of advanced stats & with Kobe continuing his antics while entering TOSB status, the luster of Kobe will wear off. He is a massive figure in NBA history however, but I don't think he will be considered top 10. He will fall in that 12-15 range.

[HemisfairArena]

We know he can repeat.

Welcome back, Thread. That TOSB about to tie Kobrick for titles

[BanditHiro]

Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Russell in no particular order...

nary room for Kobe tbh.

[HemisfairArena]

Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Russell in no particular order...

nary room for Kobe tbh.

Exactly right,,,none were sidekicks for titles,,,especially for 5 of them like Kobrick.

[AchillesHeel]

Better than Hakeem IMO, so if Hakeem is 10th or top 10, Kobe's there

can't deny the three-peat and leading the Lakers to 3 straight Finals without Shaq.

[namlook]

Yes, it's delusional to put Kobe behind Hakeem. Kobe has clearly had the better career.

[Arcadian]

Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Russell in no particular order...

nary room for Kobe tbh.

Yes. I have the same 10.

Hakeem should definitely be there - the only player ever to win MVP, DPOY, and Finals MVP in the same year. Maybe Kobe had the better-looking career on paper, but Hakeem was the better player, and that's what this discussion is about.

[djohn2oo8]

Yes, it's delusional to put Kobe behind Hakeem. Kobe has clearly had the better career.


Better than Hakeem IMO, so if Hakeem is 10th or top 10, Kobe's there

can't deny the three-peat and leading the Lakers to 3 straight Finals without Shaq.

No, Kobe doesn't belong above Hakeem when talking about top 10 players. Hakeem elevated his game in the playoffs every year. Kobe's stats almost always dipped. With the game on the line in the playoffs, Kobe's stats are just pathetic.

[rmt]

I couldn't find a single list without him in the top 10 tbh. Its only to delusional butt hurt fans here that he's somewhere in the 20-30th place of all time. At the end of the day, he surpassed all his peers of his generation (lebrons not his generation) and his place is safe.

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Slam Magazine has him 10th
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Fox sports @ 8th
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#photo-title=Kobe+Bryant+%25281996-present%2529&photo=30219332

So is Kobe of Duncan's generation? And if Duncan's played 2 (maybe 3 to come) Finals with Lebron, did we skip some generation with Kobe in it? Kobe has not surpassed Duncan or Shaq.

So, Kobe fans, which do you prefer - Lebron with a 3peat, 4 MVPs and 3 FMVPs or Duncan with 5 rings (no more 5>4)? Seems to me like you'd probably have to be cheering for the Spurs.

[ambchang]

Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Lebron, Moses Malone.

Then there's Jerry West and Dr. J.

Kobe is, at best, top 12 to 14.

IMHO, he should be in the same level as Thomas, Dirk and Robinson.

[StrengthAndHonor]

At the end of his career, pundits will not remember him for his failures, no one really does. It will be about his career numbers, positive records he broke, championships and individual accolades.

He helped the Lakers won 5 championship (7 trips to the Finals) 3 meaningful MVP's, will finish 3rd in All time scoring (Most career points in the playoffs) and a huge amount of spectacular highlights and scoring games in his resume.


The narrative for Kobe finished after he broke his Achilles, his legacy and ranking IMO was set. No amount of accomplishment will shoot him higher than 9, and no failures will bring him below 10, until another player pushes him out, which could be Durant in a decade. He's a great player and it's not a stretch to have him in a Top 10.

[DMC]

Is Duncan top 10 without Amy?

Seriously you couldn't come up with a better retort than that? I'm guessing it was your first thought.

[DMC]

So is Kobe of Duncan's generation? And if Duncan's played 2 (maybe 3 to come) Finals with Lebron, did we skip some generation with Kobe in it? Kobe has not surpassed Duncan or Shaq.

So, Kobe fans, which do you prefer - Lebron with a 3peat, 4 MVPs and 3 FMVPs or Duncan with 5 rings (no more 5>4)? Seems to me like you'd probably have to be cheering for the Spurs.

You should tread lightly with this. You're setting Tim up for failure should he not ring this season. He's already in the top 10, perhaps even top 5. Lebron shouldn't be in the talk yet. He's got a long ways to go and he needed super friends to get the hardware.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

We know Shaq can repeat.

[Venti Quattro]

Seriously you couldn't come up with a better retort than that? I'm guessing it was your first thought.

A shitfaced first post doesn't deserve a better retort. Shit begets more shit

[mudyez]

list including current players (where they finished their career):

1. MJ (ultimate competitor)
2. LeBron (best all around player ever)
3. Russel (ultimate winner)
4. Kareem (all time stats)
5. Duncan (longevity and winner)
6. Magic (putting the league over)
7. Bird (see Magic)
8. Wilt (best averages, one game stats)
9. Kobe (not sure...probably a little bit of everything)
10. Durant (ultimate scoring machine)

depending on what you weigh higher (kareems longevity over russels championships), there could be some shuffeling between positions but I don't see one of the top 9 slipping out of the top10.

[KobeOwnsDuncan]

list including current players (where they finished their career):

1. MJ (ultimate competitor)
2. LeBron (best all around player ever)
3. Russel (ultimate winner)
4. Kareem (all time stats)
5. Duncan (longevity and winner)
6. Magic (putting the league over)
7. Bird (see Magic)
8. Wilt (best averages, one game stats)
9. Kobe (not sure...probably a little bit of everything)
10. Durant (ultimate scoring machine)

:lol Germany

[Deuce Bigalow]

MJ
Russell/KAJ
Magic/Bird
Shaq/Kobe
Duncan
Wilt
West/Oscar
Hakeem
Bran
Dr J/Moses

[DPG21920]

MJ
Russell/KAJ
Magic/Bird
Shaq/Kobe
Duncan
Wilt
West/Oscar
Hakeem
Dr J/Moses

:lol Kobe over Tim

[DPG21920]

At the end of his career, pundits will not remember him for his failures, no one really does. It will be about his career numbers, positive records he broke, championships and individual accolades.

He helped the Lakers won 5 championship (7 trips to the Finals) 3 meaningful MVP's, will finish 3rd in All time scoring (Most career points in the playoffs) and a huge amount of spectacular highlights and scoring games in his resume.


The narrative for Kobe finished after he broke his Achilles, his legacy and ranking IMO was set. No amount of accomplishment will shoot him higher than 9, and no failures will bring him below 10, until another player pushes him out, which could be Durant in a decade. He's a great player and it's not a stretch to have him in a Top 10.

It's not a "stretch" to argue him top 10, but as advanced metrics become more accepted and used, Kobe's light burns less bright. He's no doubt a really great player.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lol Kobe over Tim
Kobe>Tim

[DMC]

Shaq or Kobe over Tim = http://www.netanimations.net/Moving-animated-picture-of-monkey-giving-thumbs-up-sign.gif

[DPG21920]

Kobe>Tim

Hmmmm, with the arrow argument, it deserves two :lol :lol

[AchillesHeel]

No, Kobe doesn't belong above Hakeem when talking about top 10 players. Hakeem elevated his game in the playoffs every year. Kobe's stats almost always dipped. With the game on the line in the playoffs, Kobe's stats are just pathetic.

Kobe's stats are pathetic? 30/6/6/2/1 for his 3 straight Finals runs is pathetic? Matching prime Shaq's WS/48 and leading the Playoffs in WS in 01 while going 15-1 is pathetic?
You do know Hakeem had a pathetic .143 WS/48 in his 94-95 run :lol

[Infinite_limit]

list including current players (where they finished their career):

1. MJ (ultimate competitor)
2. LeBron (best all around player ever)
3. Russel (ultimate winner)
4. Kareem (all time stats)
5. Duncan (longevity and winner)
6. Magic (putting the league over)
7. Bird (see Magic)
8. Wilt (best averages, one game stats)
9. Kobe (not sure...probably a little bit of everything)
10. Durant (ultimate scoring machine)

depending on what you weigh higher (kareems longevity over russels championships), there could be some shuffeling between positions but I don't see one of the top 9 slipping out of the top10.
James & Durant in the Top 10? Are you 15 years old

7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem


James is in the 3rd Tier along with Oscar & West

[mudyez]

James & Durant in the Top 10? Are you 15 years old


open your eyes!

"where they finished their career"

If it was current, I'd put Bron at about 10-12 an Durant way lower.

[Infinite_limit]

open your eyes!

"where they finished their career"

If it was current, I'd put Bron at about 10-12 an Durant way lower.
Joining another stars team while in the prime of his career, eliminates James from ever cracking the Immortal 6 (Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic & Russel). He has a chance to match Shaq/Kobe at the end of his career. But he won't overtake the greatest Power Forward ever (Duncan).

[Venti Quattro]

:lol Germany

Do not laugh at Dear Fatherland, you monkey.

[Venti Quattro]

Wilt
Made a living from choking


Shaq
Debatable at this point when you look at all accomplishments in the NBA, etc


Then there's Jerry West and Dr. J.
No


Kobe is, at best, top 12 to 14.

IMHO, he should be in the same level as Thomas, Dirk and Robinson.
:lmao Beta, bible-thumping opinion

When it all comes down, Kobe is Top 7-10. Sure he may not crack Top 5 and LeBron will rank higher than him at this point, and more so when Miami gets the three-Heat, but he is Top 10. Don't let your passionate hate for Kobe (w/c ultimately stems from your insecurity because of him routinely killing the Spurs in the playoffs) cloud your judgement.

[Franklin]

According to my sources it is a chink who has been using that PoJ troll tbh.

[TDMVPDPOY]

kobe is outside top10

gap from 10-12 is not a difference

its t he 13+ where guys couldnt get it done as franchise players

[djohn2oo8]

Kobe's stats are pathetic? 30/6/6/2/1 for his 3 straight Finals runs is pathetic? Matching prime Shaq's WS/48 and leading the Playoffs in WS in 01 while going 15-1 is pathetic?
You do know Hakeem had a pathetic .143 WS/48 in his 94-95 run :lol
Kobe: 18 elimination games(8-10):

22.0 ppg, 5.7 reb, 3.4 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.67 blk, 41.6% FG, 77.6% FT, 25.9% 3pt

Hakeem Olajuwon(HOU): 29 elimination games(17-and-12):

26.0 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 3.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 3.2 bpg, 52.6% FG, 68.9% FT

Excluding 1998 and 1999 playoffs;
28.2 ppg 13.0 rpg 3.5 apg 3.3 bpg on .540 fg .684 ft

[djohn2oo8]

Kobe's stats are pathetic? 30/6/6/2/1 for his 3 straight Finals runs is pathetic? Matching prime Shaq's WS/48 and leading the Playoffs in WS in 01 while going 15-1 is pathetic?
You do know Hakeem had a pathetic .143 WS/48 in his 94-95 run :lol
And I know for a fact you do not want the NBA Finals stats comparisons.

[ambchang]

Made a living from choking

The tape kind of choking, or 6-24 in Game 7 kind of choking?



Debatable at this point when you look at all accomplishments in the NBA, etc

Not even close. He was undoubtedly the one with the highest peak amongst all players post Jordan, including Lebron. The peak was short, but it was incredible. All time wise, only Larry Bird and Jordan had a peak that is comparably high.



No

Why?



:lmao Beta, bible-thumping opinion

When it all comes down, Kobe is Top 7-10. Sure he may not crack Top 5 and LeBron will rank higher than him at this point, and more so when Miami gets the three-Heat, but he is Top 10. Don't let your passionate hate for Kobe (w/c ultimately stems from your insecurity because of him routinely killing the Spurs in the playoffs) cloud your judgement.

You mean him routinely killing perimeter defenders like Steve Smith and Terry Porter?

[RsxPiimp]

And I know for a fact you do not want the NBA Finals stats comparisons.

finals stats are good, but its not a requisite. you can have a series of shitty nba finals por playoffs and still make the top 10. in the case of hall of famers that won multiple championships, career #'s is what's important.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol People actually claiming that a role player like Kirby > an alpha like Hakeem

[DMC]

Made a living from choking


Debatable at this point when you look at all accomplishments in the NBA, etc


No


:lmao Beta, bible-thumping opinion

When it all comes down, Kobe is Top 7-10. Sure he may not crack Top 5 and LeBron will rank higher than him at this point, and more so when Miami gets the three-Heat, but he is Top 10. Don't let your passionate hate for Kobe (w/c ultimately stems from your insecurity because of him routinely killing the Spurs in the playoffs) cloud your judgement.

So you think 2 rings is better than 5?

So you think RS MVP awards trump 3 rings?

So you think Finals MVP trumps an extra ring?

Explain the Kobe over Duncan argument then.

[AchillesHeel]

And I know for a fact you do not want the NBA Finals stats comparisons.

Prime Kobe was better than prime Hakeem regardless. Elimination game averages are so low due to them either not being competitive (Kobe playing less minutes, taking considerably less field goal attempts) or they were from Kobe's earlier days, when he was 2nd fiddle to Shaq, the Game 7 2010 Finals doesn't help his fg% either.

Kobe led a team to more Finals appearances to Hakeem and took his teams deeper in the Playoffs and had a longer career as a top player in the league. Hakeem had a great run in 94 and a decent run in 95(WCF & Finals were amazing), but he did take considerably more shots to average those points. I feel like his numbers are a product of the system they ran in Houston because otherwise he would have had more success and would have led teams to more Finals appearances. He couldn't get out of the 1st round with Barkley & Pippen on his team, 20 yr old Kobe outplayed him (18 7 6 with 2 spg 2 bpg on 41/36/94 shooting vs Hakeem's 13 & 7 on 43% shooting)

[djohn2oo8]

Prime Kobe was better than prime Hakeem regardless. Elimination game averages are so low due to them either not being competitive (Kobe playing less minutes, taking considerably less field goal attempts) or they were from Kobe's earlier days, when he was 2nd fiddle to Shaq, the Game 7 2010 Finals doesn't help his fg% either.

Kobe led a team to more Finals appearances to Hakeem and took his teams deeper in the Playoffs and had a longer career as a top player in the league. Hakeem had a great run in 94 and a decent run in 95(WCF & Finals were amazing), but he did take considerably more shots to average those points. I feel like his numbers are a product of the system they ran in Houston because otherwise he would have had more success and would have led teams to more Finals appearances. He couldn't get out of the 1st round with Barkley & Pippen on his team, 20 yr old Kobe outplayed him (18 7 6 with 2 spg 2 bpg on 41/36/94 shooting vs Hakeem's 13 & 7 on 43% shooting)

1. :lmao

2. Led??? In 2000, during the regular season, Bryant averaged almost 29 points and five assists per game. How did these stats translate over to the NBA Finals? They lowered to 15 points and four assists per game. Shaq, on the other hand, raised his scoring average, from 28 in the regular season to 38 in the finals.

In 2001, the Lakers once again won the NBA Finals. Kobe’s scoring average dropped in the clutch once again, forcing O’Neal to step up his scoring from 27 per game in the regular season to 33 in the finals.

In 2002, For the third straight year, Kobe’s scoring and assists declined in the series and O’Neal of course stepped it up in the finals.

In his first three years, Kobe had the privilege of watching Shaq put up three of most dominant finals performances ever. In fact at the time of Shaq’s third championship, he was averaging the most points per game in NBA finals history.

In the 2004 NBA Finals, Shaq averaged 26.6 points per game with a .631 field goal percentage, while Kobe Bryant averaged 22.6 points per game with a .381 field goal percentage.

However, the main reason Kobe cost the Lakers the title was that he out shot Shaq by nearly six shots despite Kobe shooting 38.1 %, while Shaq was shooting 63.1 %.

In 2008 NBA finals against the Celtics with this time Kobe being the “man,” he again let his team down. Against the Celtics, he shot .405 from the field and averaged 3.83 turnovers a game. In fact, in three out of their four losses he shot under 35 % from the field.

Kobe – 37 games: 25.3ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.05apg, 1.76spg, 0.9bpg, 41.2% FG, 31.3%3pt, 84.7% FT

3. 1986 Finals - Celtics/Rockets - VS McHale/Parish frontcourt

Hakeem - 24.7 PPG, 47.9 FG%, 11.8 Rebounds. 2.3 STL, 3,2 Blks (Age 23)

1994

26.9 pts, 50% FG. 9.1 RBDS, 3.6 ASTS, 1.5 STL, 3.9 BLKS

1995

32.8 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, 2.0 SPG, 2.0 BPG 48% FG

TOTALS = 28.1 PPG, 10.8 RPG, 3.63 ASTS, 1.93 STLS, 3 BPG, 48.6 % FG


So, in 4 more tries than Hakeem, Kobe is still less efficient than Hakeem, averaged less points, averaged only 2 more assists than Hakeem, averaged less steals than Hakeem (a SG with less steals than a C) and less blocks, AND this is WITH Shaq being double and tripled teamed for 4 finals appearances. Ok I'm done.

[FkLA]

:lol How can a guy that was never even the best player in the league at any point in his career be Top 10 all-time? Tthe 2000s belonged to Shaq, Duncan and then LeBron. The Lakers team success doesn't magically elevate Kobe into Top 10 status tbh.