Tony Parker having a historically bad playoff run, tbh..

[Malik Hairston]

Tony Parker has the worst on/off metrics of any Spurs rotation player in the playoffs, so far..he also has the worst WS/48, only a 16.7 PER and has the worst shooting efficiency of any player other than Jeff Ayres(which doesn't really count, since he has only played in garbage time)..

In playoff history, of players that have participated in 10 or more playoff games during their run, the only players with a comparable usage rate that have played as poorly as Parker are 1983 Andrew Toney and 2000 Allen Iverson, tbh..

Thankfully, there is plenty of time for Tony to turn it around, but you have to wonder, has last year's long run of MVP-caliber basketball + Summer basketball as France's top option taken a toll on Tony? Is age catching up? Both?..

[baseline bum]

Nice 1999th post. :lol

Never knew Toney was so shitty in the Sixers dominant 1983 run.

[ducks]

dude had a bank ankle in same of the playoffs
also teams forcus on him and usually put their best d player on him
oh and Charles barkley says tp is the best point guard in the nba (yes over chris paul)

[BillMc]

Every single player has been up and down this postseason, but we're so deep and so well-coached that someone else has always stepped up in any given game. Let's hope it continues.

[Baam]

Tony Parker has the worst on/off metrics of any Spurs rotation player in the playoffs, so far..he also has the worst WS/48, only a 16.7 PER and has the worst shooting efficiency of any player other than Jeff Ayres(which doesn't really count, since he has only played in garbage time)..

In playoff history, of players that have participated in 10 or more playoff games during their run, the only players with a comparable usage rate that have played as poorly as Parker are 1983 Andrew Toney and 2000 Allen Iverson, tbh..

Thankfully, there is plenty of time for Tony to turn it around, but you have to wonder, has last year's long run of MVP-caliber basketball + Summer basketball as France's top option taken a toll on Tony? Is age catching up? Both?..

Teams are focusing the defense on stopping him tbh and he's also worse than last year by a large margin...

Also Beli is playing worse than anyone so really it's just him and Manu, the plan to have a 3rd player who could run the PnR failed so badly it's not even funny, Pop and Buford added pressure on TP to perform instead of the opposite with this shitty move...

[Malik Hairston]

Ya, obviously you can't compare Parker to the rest of the team, he runs the offense and initiates everything while facing more defensive attention..

I'm mostly comparing him to himself in past seasons and comparing him to other stars..last year's version of Parker was on a whole other universe compared to this year's TP, sadly..

[Malik Hairston]

And ya, Belinelli was one of the worst signings in recent history:lol..

Can't create offense for himself or others, historically bad defender, and can't even make open shots consistently anymore..smh..

[Johnny RIngo]

dude had a bank ankle in same of the playoffs
also teams forcus on him and usually put their best d player on him
oh and Charles barkley says tp is the best point guard in the nba (yes over chris paul)

Duncan averaged 32/12 against the Mavs in 2006 with plantar fasciitis.
Ginobili averaged 21 ppg against the Grizzlies with a broken arm.

The excuses for Tony never end. His hammy was supposed to be 100% on Sunday(his own words) and he still played like shit. Some people just don't want to accept the fact that TP is a VERY poor playoff performer. He puts up points but he does it at low efficiency. Has never been a great playmaker either, defense is inconsistent, and his lack of a jumpshot kills the spacing on the team.

[Darius McCrary]

There is no doubt on my mind Tony is on the decline. He has not looked nearly as quick or fast as he was even last year. I mean in the freakin Mavs series, he could not even outrun two bigmen on a fastbreak. The one-man-fastbreak and insane quickness is gone. Last year and the summer play most def took a toll.

[smaka]

He couldn't even get past Abaka when they switched on him...

[ElNono]

I think there's more to it somehow... some games he looks amazing (game 7 vs Dallas, a bunch of games against Portland, first couple of games against OKC), but when he looks bad (Games 1-6 vs Dallas, last night), he looks really, really bad.

Hard to explain for a kid in his prime, tbh... maybe Brazil that's peeking in this thread can chime in...

[Leetonidas]

Nigga gettin no sleep because of that baby and the newfound joy of fatherhood has probably worn off already. He is human tbh it would be hard for any man to do their job 100% when having a newborn imo

[BillMc]

I think there's more to it somehow... some games he looks amazing (game 7 vs Dallas, a bunch of games against Portland, first couple of games against OKC), but when he looks bad (Games 1-6 vs Dallas, last night), he looks really, really bad.

Hard to explain for a kid in his prime, tbh... maybe Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) that's peeking in this thread can chime in...

He's exhausted and nothing but an offseason will cure it. (If it does, he may be slowing down from age...). Pop already rested him 3 weeks in a season where he played about 30 min a game. He is what he is for this season at least. As I said, some nights Tony will be a world beater, some nights someone else will have to step up. So far they have. If we win a title this year it's really going to be a group effort, no player is going to carry us.

[Shastafarian]

Why would he be exhausted coming off of such a long rest?

[Malik Hairston]

Tony doesn't need to be a superstar this year, this Spurs team is the most team-oriented contender in NBA history IMO..

But he needs to he much more effective and consistent than he has been during this run..

[BillMc]

Why would he be exhausted coming off of such a long rest?

Fatigue. As Tony gets older he's going to need more time to recover from long term exhaustion. I hope he does NOTHING this off season. Sit on a beach with his new wife and kid. Don't touch a basketball.

[Shastafarian]

Fatigue. As Tony gets older he's going to need more time to recover from long term exhaustion. I hope he does NOTHING this off season. Sit on a beach with his new wife and kid. Don't touch a basketball.

That doesn't really make sense when you look at games 1 and 2. Unless you're saying he was so tired from those first games that he needed almost a week to recover. That wouldn't bode well for tomorrow night...

[BillMc]

That doesn't really make sense when you look at games 1 and 2. Unless you're saying he was so tired from those first games that he needed almost a week to recover. That wouldn't bode well for tomorrow night...

It means short rest (a few days) can give him energy for a game or two, but its going to be diminishing returns until he gets a much longer break.

[Shastafarian]

I'd be more inclined to believe it's some form and severity of an injury. You have experience with this type of long-term fatigue?

[BillMc]

I'd be more inclined to believe it's some form and severity of an injury. You have experience with this type of long-term fatigue?

I'm just some guy on the internet shooting off his mouth. :lol That said I was a Division I swimmer in college. It took a month after heavy training for your body to fully recover and produce your best times. And that's for 18 to 22 year olds. Tony's 32 with a ton of mileage and nagging injuries. 2 to 3 month's is what this (completely unqualified) Dr. Bill recommends for Tony. Who knows. :) The point is a body in a state of chronic fatigue cannot return to its maximum performance level without extended rest. It's not recharging batteries (like replenishing carbs, etc) it's long term physical and mental healing.

But this is all guess work when applied to Tony, I fully admit it.

[DPG21920]

Regarding the OP, to me it's encouraging that TPs best in these playoffs is still elite. Normally when you reach TOSB status, you don't get this many great games. The thing that stands out to me is the bad games being so bad & it's been 50/50. His numbers look bad because of the bad games where in the past not only did he have more great than bad, but the bad games weren't this bad. The downside was minimal.

I do think he's ailing but he's shown more than enough good games to where I think it's fatigue & injury.

[DarrinS]

He'll bounce back in game 4 -- book it

[Cry Havoc]

Less than a week ago people were stating that Parker is the best point guard in the league. Amazing how short of a memory SpursTalk has.

[BillMc]

Less than a week ago people were stating that Parker is the best point guard in the league. Amazing how short of a memory SpursTalk has.

1 game ago we were invincible. Now its 2012 redux and Tony's washed up. Love the knee jerk internet age.

[lefty]

Nice 1999th post. :lol

Never knew Toney was so shitty in the Sixers dominant 1983 run.
ah 1999


AJ hit a clutch title clincher in the Mecca


:cry Spurs GOAT PG

[lefty]

Less than a week ago people were stating that Parker is the best point guard in the league. Amazing how short of a memory SpursTalk has.
it has nothng to do with short memory

They are just stupid :lol
Parker best PG in the NBA :lol

[baseline bum]

1 game ago we were invincible. Now its 2012 redux and Tony's washed up. Love the knee jerk internet age.

The Spurs are invincible against OKC minus Ibaka.

[baseline bum]

it has nothng to do with short memory

They are just stupid :lol
Parker best PG in the NBA :lol

He kind of is by default. Chris Paul threw a series with Ginobiliesque retardation, Derrick Rose is done, Rondo is injured and massively overrated anyways, Deron Williams is a fat piece of shit, he just killed Lollard, and Westbrook has just barely crept above 40% FG for the playoffs while shooting 28% from the three.

[Clipper Nation]

He kind of is by default. Chris Paul threw a series with Ginobiliesque retardation, Derrick Rose is done, Rondo is injured and massively overrated anyways, Deron Williams is a fat piece of shit, he just killed Lollard, and Westbrook has just barely crept above 40% FG for the playoffs while shooting 28% from the three.
Being the best point guard is like being the tallest midget anyway, tbh.... nobody cares, the PG position is basically useless when it comes to winning....

[bklynspursfan]

He will score at least 30 next game.

[Cane]

Dat decline prediction from Hollinger

If Parker's midrange game isn't automatic then it's an uphill battle for Parker who is usually the smallest guy on the court. Patty seems so much quicker although he doesn't have the driving or finishing skills of TP

And goddammit to Parker playing for Team France. All will be forgiven though if:
:lobt2:

[phxspurfan]

The Spurs are invincible against OKC minus Ibaka.

At first I agreed, but then I realized that it wasn't just Ibaka that killed us last game (and during the regular season). It was the extra offense they had (that nullified our bench advantage) when Brooks woke up and played more Lamb and Jackson. Those types of guys kill us.

[TDfan2007]

Tony just needs two more good games. He doesn't need to be great, just good.

[BillMc]

Tony just needs two more good games. He doesn't need to be great, just good.

This.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Tony just needs two more good games. He doesn't need to be great, just good.

Well really he needs 6 more if we're looking a head.

[jag]

I don't think it's acceptable to write off his performances as justified due to his being injured. I think there's something there, but he still has to find ways to contribute. His turnovers and laziness on offense are not a result of any nagging injuries. The effort can still be there.

[Raven]

yes, disappointing season from him.. Sad part, i can't really find any tangible reason, because the starting lineup has been dismantling teams in the first quarter so hardly the whole year, it's not even funny..

[Brazil]

I think there's more to it somehow... some games he looks amazing (game 7 vs Dallas, a bunch of games against Portland, first couple of games against OKC), but when he looks bad (Games 1-6 vs Dallas, last night), he looks really, really bad.

Hard to explain for a kid in his prime, tbh... maybe Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) that's peeking in this thread can chime in...

First of all, schtick is nice but Parker is not in his prime anymore tbh he has a lot of mileage. I'm actually quite surprised a non athletic dude using his speed to make a difference is still capable to play elite when a lot of PGs of his age disappeared. If you add three years of non stop bb you got a receipt for a banged inconsistent player.

He has been clearly ups and downs during these POs even though he was very solid against Portland and did the right things first two games against OKC.

Yesterday I don't believe his injury was bothering him at all, I did not see him limping once. I believe though that even if they say rest is best, these 3 days cut his legs. He was just out of the game. By Pop instruction or not, fact is plan was to share the ball handling early then you see Parker giving up the ball and go to the corner waiting. That's plain awful, obviously this is what Pop wanted but it just fucks up Parker's game, he becomes passive on Offense and Defense.

There is no one explanation but a cumul of stuff imho

At the end he played his most passive game of the POs. I expect a totally different animal game 2 but yesterday he rightly deserved to be called out.

[Diego20]

#Johnny RIngo (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4414)

[DPG21920]

Not to mention, TP has turned into mini-Lebron. He not only carries a large burden of creating offense (despite the fact they play team ball), but he defended Lillard, has defended Westbrook...Not to make excuses or say he's as good as Lebron, but he has a lot of responsiblity that very, very few carry all the way through the WCF..

[therealtruth]

Doesn't he still have his floater?

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Doesn't he still have his floater?

It hasn't been effective all year, and he doesn't look for it nearly as often these days. I don't know why.

[gilmor]

Tony Parker has the worst on/off metrics of any Spurs rotation player in the playoffs, so far..he also has the worst WS/48, only a 16.7 PER and has the worst shooting efficiency of any player other than Jeff Ayres(which doesn't really count, since he has only played in garbage time)..

In playoff history, of players that have participated in 10 or more playoff games during their run, the only players with a comparable usage rate that have played as poorly as Parker are 1983 Andrew Toney and 2000 Allen Iverson, tbh..

Thankfully, there is plenty of time for Tony to turn it around, but you have to wonder, has last year's long run of MVP-caliber basketball + Summer basketball as France's top option taken a toll on Tony? Is age catching up? Both?..

How's Tony compared to CP3? CP3 virtually lost the whole Conf Semifinals to OKC by himself..

[DAF86]

The problem with Tony is that his game isn't very "advanced stats" happy, when he isn't efficiently scoring the ball he doesn't have many areas to make up for it. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't block shots, he doesn't get steals, he doesn't shoot threes, he doesn't get to the line much, even his assists numbers aren't all that great for an elite PG. But that doesn't mean he plays as bad as his advanced numbers suggest. He's still the motor of the offense even if he doesn't get baskets or assists and gives great effort on defense even if he doesn't get steals, blocks or rebounds.

[Ice009]

Not to mention, TP has turned into mini-Lebron. He not only carries a large burden of creating offense (despite the fact they play team ball), but he defended Lillard, has defended Westbrook...Not to make excuses or say he's as good as Lebron, but he has a lot of responsiblity that very, very few carry all the way through the WCF..

I think Tony Parker is a similar player to Lebron James on offense. I've been saying it the last two years to people outside of this forum. What I mean by that is, when their jumpshots are on, they're two of the most unstoppable players on the planet. TPs finishing ability inside just makes him such a tough player to guard when he's confident in his jumper and shooting well to go along with his inside penetration game. Another similarity, Lebron also had a tendency to disappear late in games earlier in his career on offense (mainly because of a lack of confidence in his jumper), something TP used to do and still does on occasion. Lebron's gotten much better at it these days though.

Anyway, I think Tony is that good, but it just frustrates me to no end when he loses confidence in his jumper and just has a poor game in general because he loses his aggressive edge when he's not "on", on offense.

Hopefully he is not injured and there is not something like that holding him back. I want to see him come back and finish hard the rest of these playoffs.

[downunder]

Recently Pop said Mills is magnificent - has been all season. But what does he do when Parker has a low strike rate; he puts Mills on for short periods does not instruct his players to set Mills up for 3 point shots ( look at last game Belli kept shooting & missing) then after Mills is denied a legit 3 by refs, pulls him off floor. Explain that. Parker needs a break during game; he is tired and stressed because he thinks team cannot win without him. He may be right ; but Pop needs to think strategically if Parker has an off night; not shut down.

[Slippy]

Said it during the season and can't help but feel the same again. When Ibaka is on the court Tony shouldn't be the focal point of the offense.

Pop needs to be the one forcing the adjusment.

[slick'81]

Disappointing season for sure

[ducks]

worse playoff game since 10 years ago
he will bounce back

[wildchild]

Parker needs a break during game; he is tired and stressed because he thinks team cannot win without him. He may be right ; but Pop needs to think strategically if Parker has an off night; not shut down.

Or Tony also needs to get tougher mentality so when he doesn't have a good shooting night not getting frustrated and be able to contribute in other areas of the game and not disappear.



Pop needs to be the one forcing the adjusment.

Pop won't make any adjustment next game. He said it's all about the execution on both ends. In his mind the system doesn't need changes or flexibility, the team just need to play better.

[dg7md]

Keep in mind the loss on Sunday was the first loss since May 12th... we were "due" a bad game and OKC were in a much worse position than we were, they had to win, we don't have to win until game 5.

[hater]

he's obviously playing hurt. Only a blind man would disagree. or someone who doesn't actually watch the games but just looks at the boxscore.

hopefully he can bounce back cause we are not going anywhere with an injure MVParker

[Malik Hairston]

he's obviously playing hurt. Only a blind man would disagree. or someone who doesn't actually watch the games but just looks at the boxscore.

hopefully he can bounce back cause we are not going anywhere with an injure MVParker

Is Belinelli hurt, too, in your opinion?..

[MI21]

I'm not going to get into one of the threads debating how good Parker is etc because I think Tony is very underrated...but...

It is disturbing at how easy it is to tell if he is going to have a good game or not these days. The first 5 minutes generally sets the tone. Sometimes he looks aggressive, fast and vocal with his teammates. Other times, like Game 3, he looks aloof, lazy and a bit disinterested.

I really don't understand it.

[Brazil]

Said it during the season and can't help but feel the same again. When Ibaka is on the court Tony shouldn't be the focal point of the offense.

Pop needs to be the one forcing the adjusment.

:lol

thats exactly what pop and spurs did game 3 and it failed miserably. Doing so you transform Parker in a passive dude waiting in the corner.

[Phenomanul]

That Portland game where he injured his hammy makes him look worse statistically than actual... If you remove that goose egg... His numbers aren't as bad...

[therealtruth]

Recently Pop said Mills is magnificent - has been all season. But what does he do when Parker has a low strike rate; he puts Mills on for short periods does not instruct his players to set Mills up for 3 point shots ( look at last game Belli kept shooting & missing) then after Mills is denied a legit 3 by refs, pulls him off floor. Explain that. Parker needs a break during game; he is tired and stressed because he thinks team cannot win without him. He may be right ; but Pop needs to think strategically if Parker has an off night; not shut down.

I agree. He's got to go with Mills if TP doesn't have his head on. He can at least space the floor for penetration.

[therealtruth]

Said it during the season and can't help but feel the same again. When Ibaka is on the court Tony shouldn't be the focal point of the offense.

Pop needs to be the one forcing the adjusment.

The problem is TP is not attacking Ibaka correctly. He's got to use his floater or jump into his body. Get him into some foul trouble. Also using the rim as a shield. But throwing the ball against the backboard so Ibaka can pin it is not going to work.

[Slippy]

:lol

thats exactly what pop and spurs did game 3 and it failed miserably. Doing so you transform Parker in a passive dude waiting in the corner.

I thought most of the moves Pop made in game 3 were about making life easier for Tony and getting him going. Ibaka is in his head though. That time-out where pop was miked was telling and directed at Tony. Something along the lines "if you taking to the hole, ibaka is around pass if off to an open teammate".

Adjustments are needed. I like realthruths comments and Tony looking for his jumper wouldn't hurt. Mixing it up where others become focal points and turning ibaka into the primary defender would also help..

[Malik Hairston]

Despite this horrible playoff run, Spurs still need Tony in the Finals, obviously..

He doesn't have to be a star, this year's team isn't reliant on him like last year's team was, the Spurs just need him to play his role..penetrate, get shooters involved, create some easy baskets, and go on scoring runs when it's possible..he just can't over-dribble and stall the offense, hopefully he watched what worked tonight..

[ElNono]

He's been probably hurting for the entire playoffs, tbh.... at this point you get what you can from him. I think he'll be ready for the Finals...

That said, we now have closed two series without him on the court... which is pretty amazing and speaks volumes of the depth of this team and how well coached it is.

[HI-FI]

Hopefully he's healthy enough to help out. Maybe the fatigue or injuries are somewhat of a blessing in disguise. It might force him to play less minutes and not stall the offense as much with his heroball. Perhaps he'll be more effective in the minutes he can bring it.

[ElNono]

Pop said in the presser Tony hurt the ankle in Game 4, and aggravated it in Game 5... let's hope the docs can do magic in the next 5 days...

[gilmor]

So contrary to a lot of posters on this site, lefty all included, Tony was and is genuinely hurt.

Pop even gave him credit for giving them some useful 19 minutes..