Hypothetical: If S.A. were interested, Could they cquire the #1 pick from the Cavs

[cd021]

Hypothetical 1:


Have heard that the Cavs are open to moving the #1 pick (which is rumored,literally ever year)


Kawhi Leonard

2014 1st round pick (30th)

unprotected 2016 1st round pick *

(important because none of the big 3 would be under contract, meaning the Spurs could be much worse and their pick much more attractive)

*Danny Green may have to be included

Leonard ,apparently, is viewed in high regard around the league and is only 23.

The Cavs are probably going to lose Deng in free agency leaving them with no starting caliber small forward.


Joel Embiid is generally considered to be the front runner for the #1 pick and has been compared to Hakeem Olajuwon.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0nxBm5TaI0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8_MDi2bZrU


Hypothetical 2:


Bleacher Report recently mentioned the top FAs and their likely destinations.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2078320-projecting-most-likely-destinations-for-2014s-top-15-nba-free-agents/page/9

They mention Greg Monroe likely destination (obviously speculation)

but if Duncan were to retire after this season (hopefully with his 5th title)


"
While it might be unlikely that Detroit simply lets Monroe sign an offer sheet elsewhere and then refuse to match, a sign-and-trade could work for both teams. Under Stan Van Gundy, Detroit will need perimeter shooters, and the Spurs have them in spades.

Even if it's just acquiring Danny Green and a draft pick, the Pistons would be well served to get something for Monroe and avoid a potentially messy situation where he publicly refuses to play for Detroit, which might not be out of the realm of possibility.

In Monroe, San Antonio would get a solid rebounder and great passer, two of Duncan's biggest contributions over the years. While he can't fill Duncan's shoes, San Antonio would be wise to chase the only young franchise big man who might be attainable this offseason, should Duncan retire.



The Spurs could have as much $22 million if Duncan were to retire (assuming the cap indeed rises to $63 million). Thats not including Mills and Diaw being unrestricted FAs.

He has been mentioned as the most likely of their front court to be moved considering Smiths bad contract and Drummond talent.

[Seventyniner]

Monroe/Splitter is a good, balanced frontcourt. However, Monroe is overrated and thus will likely be overpaid. That and Duncan might not retire even if the Spurs win the title.

As for the #1 pick scenario, as crazy as it may sound, I don't think it's worth losing Kawhi and Danny even to get Embiid. The Spurs would have no SF at all. If you include Deng in a sign-and-trade...hmm. The Spurs would have to take back some salary somehow.

Still, the Cavs have a new GM and he would get crucified for only getting Kawhi, Danny, the #30 this year and a likely low first-round pick in 2016. I don't know if they can do much better, but the public will think so.

[DesignatedT]

:lol

[Cry Havoc]

No way Cleveland would do that.

Embiid is listed as a center with a potential ceiling as high as Hakeem. They're not moving that pick for anyone who isn't a top 5 player in the league.

[BillMc]

Monroe/Splitter is a good, balanced frontcourt. However, Monroe is overrated and thus will likely be overpaid. That and Duncan might not retire even if the Spurs win the title.

As for the #1 pick scenario, as crazy as it may sound, I don't think it's worth losing Kawhi and Danny even to get Embiid. The Spurs would have no SF at all. If you include Deng in a sign-and-trade...hmm. The Spurs would have to take back some salary somehow.

Still, the Cavs have a new GM and he would get crucified for only getting Kawhi, Danny, the #30 this year and a likely low first-round pick in 2016. I don't know if they can do much better, but the public will think so.

Today's ESPN article on Pop and Duncan really gave the impression that Timmy isn't retiring anytime soon.

[Cry Havoc]

Today's ESPN article on Pop and Duncan really gave the impression that Timmy isn't retiring anytime soon.

If Timmy retires after next year, the cap space it would free up would give us a lot of room to pursue a near-max big to replace him.

[RD2191]

If Timmy retires after next year, the cap space it would free up would give us a lot of room to pursue a near-max big to replace him.
Any one in mind who could work and fit in with the Spurs? Anyone overseas worth bringing over?

[313]

Today's ESPN article on Pop and Duncan really gave the impression that Timmy isn't retiring anytime soon.who's the first chick in your sig

[cd021]

Any one in mind who could work and fit in with the Spurs? Anyone overseas worth bringing over?
Love and Aldridge come off the books then.

[BillMc]

If Timmy retires after next year, the cap space it would free up would give us a lot of room to pursue a near-max big to replace him.

While I understand your point, I'd really rather Timmy play as long as he wants, even if at this point, we could replace him with a better FA.

[RD2191]

Love and Aldridge come off the books then.
Who would you pursue? I'm thinking Love since he is younger. Though I hear his dream is to be a Laker.

[BillMc]

who's the first chick in your sig

You mean the one with the suntan lotion? Michelle Keegan, British actress.

[Baam]

Monroe sucks imo but I like crackpot scenarios so that's my kinda thread...

I think making it to the Finals make Tim retiring and any significant move less likely. Then again we're not quite there yet...

Regarding Kawhi : while he produces awesome advanced stats it's clear as day he's robotic offensively and probably shouldn't be more than a 3rd banana... Id consider trading him while he still has that blue chip aura but it would have to be worth it, basically anything short of a Duncan replacement would suck... Also when I look at Stephenson I see a young SJax, I think you could fill the void left by Kawhi with Lance quite easily.

My favourite crackpot scenario would probably be something like Splitter + Kawhi for Love + a pick in a 3 teams trade or something...

[cd021]

Who would you pursue? I'm thinking Love since he is younger. Though I hear his dream is to be a Laker.
L.A. I think he is from Texas and would be a great pairing with Tiago. He'd be 31 though but still a great shooter.

[Cry Havoc]

Any one in mind who could work and fit in with the Spurs? Anyone overseas worth bringing over?

This draft is insanely deep for one, so much so that even with a very late pick we could grab someone to develop over the next couple of years. Jusuf Nurkic is a guy that's getting thrown around a lot, Mitch McGary
, and Kristaps Porzingis as well. And as usual we could see someone fall through the draft OR the Spurs could swipe someone from the free agent market. There are going to be a ton of free agents between now and the end of the 2015 free agency.

[Beaverfuzz]

Fuck no.

[DPG21920]

That video of Emiid looked like he was playing on an 8 foot rim.

[Mugen]

If Duncan/Manu do end up retiring at the end of this season or the next then the FA (realistic) I want the Spurs to pursue is Marc Gasol who's contract is up after next year.

It's obviously a downgrade but a lineup of TP/Green/Leonard/Splitter/Marc should be a contender depending on the landscape of the West around that time. Gives you another 2-3 year window before Parker/Pop are probably done.

[cd021]

Monroe sucks imo but I like crackpot scenarios so that's my kinda thread...

I think making it to the Finals make Tim retiring and any significant move less likely. Then again we're not quite there yet...

Regarding Kawhi : while he produces awesome advanced stats it's clear as day he's robotic offensively and probably shouldn't be more than a 3rd banana... Id consider trading him while he still has that blue chip aura but it would have to be worth it, basically anything short of a Duncan replacement would suck... Also when I look at Stephenson I see a young SJax, I think you could fill the void left by Kawhi with Lance quite easily.

My favourite crackpot scenario would probably be something like Splitter + Kawhi for Love + a pick in a 3 teams trade or something...
:lol self deprecating humor. That Love deal is alright but but they have Pec thats a Memphis type of pairing and that can be hard to do in todays NBA.

I do think Kawhi is overrated and could have an inflated value.

[cjw]

If Timmy retires after next year, the cap space it would free up would give us a lot of room to pursue a near-max big to replace him.

Leonard's new contract will kick in by then, so cap space will quickly be taken up.

[vander]

when TD retires, Spurs will need to trade TP, Kawhi will get injured, and Spurs will get the #1 pick

[poeticism707]

That video of Emiid looked like he was playing on an 8 foot rim.

This.

This guy has top 10 all time potential written all over him.

No way the Cavs trade that pic,

so non issue.

[RD2191]

This draft is insanely deep for one, so much so that even with a very late pick we could grab someone to develop over the next couple of years. Jusuf Nurkic is a guy that's getting thrown around a lot, Mitch McGary
, and Kristaps Porzingis as well. And as usual we could see someone fall through the draft OR the Spurs could swipe someone from the free agent market. There are going to be a ton of free agents between now and the end of the 2015 free agency.
Thanks for your thoughts. Will def look into players mentioned.

[RD2191]

L.A. I think he is from Texas and would be a great pairing with Tiago. He'd be 31 though but still a great shooter.
His age is the only think that concerns me. His defense is also iffy.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

The real scenario is to pick up Harden and trade for Anthony Davis.. we would instantly have potential for a new big 3 just like the old... Parker/Harden/Davis...

Not as impossible as you think... ;)


What's good to eat in San Antonio?
— Anthony Davis (@AntDavis23) September 9, 2012



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgoOS1FGcmw

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

This.

This guy has top 10 all time potential written all over him.

No way the Cavs trade that pic,

so non issue.

Doesn't matter... they're getting Wiggins..

[poeticism707]

Doesn't matter... they're getting Wiggins..

If those morons in Cleveland pick Wiggins ahead Emiid,

then they deserve exactly what they get.

[cd021]

Thanks for your thoughts. Will def look into players mentioned.
have also heard about a french SF Damian Inglish (i think thats spelled correctly) 6'9 with 7'3 wingspan and athletic. Cleanthony Early and Clint Cappela are names i have heard in mocks.

[cd021]

If those morons in Cleveland pick Wiggins ahead Emiid,

then they deserve exactly what they get.
they are worried about Embiids back

[cd021]

His age is the only think that concerns me. His defense is also iffy.
a 3 year deal or a spread out 4 year deal is likely. Dont watch much of either play but he probably better defensively. Can be hid like Zbo playing with Gasol Splitter can make up for some of his deficiencies. Green and Leonard can certainly help too.

His game should age fairly well , already an elite jump shooter and can score in the post too.

[cd021]

If those morons in Cleveland pick Wiggins ahead Emiid,

then they deserve exactly what they get.
another #1 pick?

[HemisfairArena]

If those morons in Cleveland pick Wiggins ahead Emiid,

then they deserve exactly what they get.

Not that easy. Almost exact situation happened with Oden and Durant. Everyone said take the prodigy in the paint over the scorer,,,we know how that worked out.

[exstatic]

Monroe/Splitter is a good, balanced frontcourt. However, Monroe is overrated and thus will likely be overpaid. That and Duncan might not retire even if the Spurs win the title.

As for the #1 pick scenario, as crazy as it may sound, I don't think it's worth losing Kawhi and Danny even to get Embiid. The Spurs would have no SF at all. If you include Deng in a sign-and-trade...hmm. The Spurs would have to take back some salary somehow.

Still, the Cavs have a new GM and he would get crucified for only getting Kawhi, Danny, the #30 this year and a likely low first-round pick in 2016. I don't know if they can do much better, but the public will think so.

You can't play Monroe and Splitter together. Neither can shoot to space the floor.

[james evans]

No way Cleveland would do that.

Embiid is listed as a center with a potential ceiling as high as Hakeem. They're not moving that pick for anyone who isn't a top 5 player in the league.
man stop listening to espn. nothign i've seen in this guy shows me he'll be an hakeem type player. people need to stop with the nonsense.

[Chinook]

Yes, I think the Spurs could well trade for the first-overall pick if they wanted to. Kawhi, Green, and Splitter for 1, Bennett and Varejao should work. I think people are really overvaluing picks. Leonard's likely to be better than each of the players coming out this year. (I mean individually. Someone out of the pack should be better, but none of them have a great chance on their own). I don't say that because I buy into Leonard's hype. It's just a fact that there are too many busts taken at the top of the draft.

After flubbing up three top-five picks in a row, the Cavs would probably consider themselves lucky to get someone of Kawhi's caliber with their pick. You add in getting two championship-quality role-players who play at positions of dire need, and it's clear why that would be a prudent use of Cleveland's pick.

The question is more of what would make the Spurs do the trade. Obviously, Duncan would have to retire. But the team would never make this deal if Parker stayed. So he'd probably get traded in a separate deal (like to Orlando for 12). Ginobili would probably just retire, as he has little trade value. The Spurs would really have to believe in Embiid/Wiggins/whomever in order to get rid of Leonard (an extremely tempting bird-in-the-hand). Green has little value to a rebuilding team, so that part of the trade wouldn't matter. But Splitter could still fetch a decent price on the market. He's hardly a throw-in. The team would have to like Bennett (supposedly they did) and think they could flip Varejao later.

As for the second scenario. No, you don't trade Green for Monroe. He's not an adequate Duncan replacement, and unless the Spurs replace Green, they shouldn't even be thinking about reloading after that deal. Monroe is a poor fit next to Splitter. He can't space the floor, hogs the ball and doesn't play a lick of defense. It doesn't surprise me that the Spurs' FO seems so intellectual and complex when I see the ideas the writers throw out there.

[Chinook]

man stop listening to espn. nothign i've seen in this guy shows me he'll be an hakeem type player. people need to stop with the nonsense.

People overrate new players. Embiid is more likely to play for five teams in 10 years than he is to be a 15-year anchor for a franchise, yet alone a top-10 GOAT candidate.

[Mugen]

Yes, I think the Spurs could well trade for the first-overall pick if they wanted to. Kawhi, Green, and Splitter for 1, Bennett and Varejao should work. I think people are really overvaluing picks. Leonard's likely to be better than each of the players coming out this year. (I mean individually. Someone out of the pack should be better, but none of them have a great chance on their own). I don't say that because I buy into Leonard's hype. It's just a fact that there are too many busts taken at the top of the draft.

After flubbing up three top-five picks in a row, the Cavs would probably consider themselves lucky to get someone of Kawhi's caliber with their pick. You add in getting two championship-quality role-players who play at positions of dire need, and it's clear why that would be a prudent use of Cleveland's pick.

The question is more of what would make the Spurs do the trade. Obviously, Duncan would have to retire. But the team would never make this deal if Parker stayed. So he'd probably get traded in a separate deal (like to Orlando for 12). Ginobili would probably just retire, as he has little trade value. The Spurs would really have to believe in Embiid/Wiggins/whomever in order to get rid of Leonard (an extremely tempting bird-in-the-hand). Green has little value to a rebuilding team, so that part of the trade wouldn't matter. But Splitter could still fetch a decent price on the market. He's hardly a throw-in. The team would have to like Bennett (supposedly they did) and think they could flip Varejao later.

As for the second scenario. No, you don't trade Green for Monroe. He's not an adequate Duncan replacement, and unless the Spurs replace Green, they shouldn't even be thinking about reloading after that deal. Monroe is a poor fit next to Splitter. He can't space the floor, hogs the ball and doesn't play a lick of defense. It doesn't surprise me that the Spurs' FO seems so intellectual and complex when I see the ideas the writers throw out there.

That's a terrible trade for Cleveland. Absolutely terrible.

[apalisoc_9]

:rolleyes

[HemisfairArena]

That's a terrible trade for Cleveland. Absolutely terrible.

+1,,,,it's up there with Laker fans saying they can trade Nash and #7 for Love and #13,,,LMAO.

[Chinook]

That's a terrible trade for Cleveland. Absolutely terrible.

Yeah, they'll be so much better off with Jabari Parker (you just know they'll draft another undersized four) and a gaping hole at small-forward while lacking the veteran role-players they need to make a real playoff push. What do you realistically think they'd get for the first pick?

[HemisfairArena]

Yeah, they'll be so much better off with Jabari Parker (you just know they'll draft another undersized four) and a gaping hole at small-forward while lacking the veteran role-players they need to make a real playoff push. What do you realistically think they'd get for the first pick?

They'll draft Wiggins.

[Chinook]

They'll draft Wiggins.

Yeah, like they drafted Oladipo last year, Barnes the year before and Valanciunas in 2011, right?

[Mugen]

Yeah, they'll be so much better off with Jabari Parker (you just know they'll draft another undersized four) and a gaping hole at small-forward while lacking the veteran role-players they need to make a real playoff push. What do you realistically think they'd get for the first pick?

I doubt they'd trade the pick outside of like 4-5 guys but they can do better than a package of Kawhi/Danny/Tiago, especially without giving up their No. 1 pick from last season and arguably their best big man.

C'mon Chin, you're my dude but you can't be serious about that trade scenario tbh.

[HemisfairArena]

Yeah, like they drafted Oladipo last year, Barnes the year before and Valanciunas in 2011, right?

They'll draft Wiggins,,,to pair with Irving and Waiters and leave Thompson and Bennett in the paint. Only way they take Embiid is if LeBron says he comes back( as SF).

[cjw]

they are worried about Embiids back

If the choice is between potentially getting the second coming of Hakeem, or at best a guy who turns into Carmelo or Vince Carter, I'm taking the chance on #1 first.

[Baam]

If the choice is between potentially getting the second coming of Hakeem, or at best a guy who turns into Carmelo or Vince Carter, I'm taking the chance on #1 first.

This, Embiid is the clear number one pick, you dont have to think about it all that hard... The Cavs will probably pick Randle the 6"7 PF or something tho...

[HemisfairArena]

If the choice is between potentially getting the second coming of Hakeem, or at best a guy who turns into Carmelo or Vince Carter, I'm taking the chance on #1 first.

And thats why Las Vegas always wins,,,people willing to roll the dice(against the odds) on an injury prone player over a solid player,,,,once again Durant>Oden.

[Chinook]

I doubt they'd trade the pick outside of like 4-5 guys but they can do better than a package of Kawhi/Danny/Tiago, especially without giving up their No. 1 pick from last season and arguably their best big man.

C'mon Chin, you're my dude but you can't be serious about that trade scenario tbh.

I don't think Bennett really has much value to the Cavs anymore. He's almost salary ballast at this point. About Varejao, Splitter is already better than him, and Anderson is even more fragile (and also expiring). I think the Cavs would (or should) trade him for Splitter straight up. Green is better than Bennett (obviously, since Bennett is horrible) if the Cavs are serious about winning now, they should make that deal if they get offered it straight up.

Really, the crux comes down to Kawhi's value. I think he'd be the second- third-best player in this draft class. He has as good of a chance to end up being better than any other the players picked this year than he does at being behind three or more of them. If Tristan Thompson had been the Leonard of power-forwards, he'd have been considered a great pick. Had Waiters been the Leonard of two-guards, he'd be considered a great pick. Obviously, there's no need to talk about Bennett and the mistakes there. So the idea of Kawhi being worth a top pick isn't outlandish to me, and I don't think his ceiling is nearly as high as some people say it is. If Tyrus Thomas can net the second-overall pick, Leonard could get the first.

As far as your perception of the pick's value, I think it's overblown. A top-five player is worth multiple first-overall picks. Top picks don't get (intentionally) traded for players often, but when they do, the return isn't very high. I don't think the Cavs could do much better than Kawhi at all. Hell, Battier netted the eighth-overall pick in 2006. Shane Battier.

[ShoogarBear]

Maybe they could trade Danny Ferry again.

[Mugen]

We're just gonna have to fundamentally disagree here. I don't think this draft class is as good as the 03 class but the upside is there. You don't trade away what Embiid/Wiggins can potentially become for somebody with Kawhi's ceiling ( and I LOVE Kawhi). You just don't, especially when you're a terrible franchise like Cleveland.

Even if it was Leonard plus + additional first round picks, I don't think you do it. Green/Splitter are great role players on San Antonio that don't nearly have the same impact on a team without Pop's system tbh. And I'm one of the biggest Green/Splitter homers on the site.

[Uriel]

:lol No way the Cavs make that deal. Leonard is a great player, but his ceiling is probably Shawn Marion. Andrew Wiggins' ceiling is Paul George / Tracy McGrady and Joel Embiid's ceiling is Hakeem Olajuwon.

[Snaq O'Meal]

have also heard about a french SF Damian Inglish (i think thats spelled correctly) 6'9 with 7'3 wingspan and athletic. Cleanthony Early and Clint Cappela are names i have heard in mocks.

The Spurs already have a French SF like that stashed away.

[Baam]

The first pick is bad value anyway... There's an aura surrounding it that's irrational... Would be much better value to trade for lower picks...

Last year Jrue Holyday netted the Sixers the 6th pick + a 2015 first rounder... Kawhi is probably worth a bit more, so Id say he could get us a top 5 pick... The Jazz has 5 and 23 and are a friendly FO...

The problem is the worst teams need great talent, it's better for them to swing and miss than to settle for a confirmed 3rd banana most of the time if they can afford it... Not sure Cleveland can afford to go back to the lottery tho, they're in the same situation as Charlotte or Washington were not long ago.

[HemisfairArena]

The first pick is bad value anyway... There's an aura surrounding it that's irrational... Would be much better value to trade for lower picks...

Last year Jrue Holyday netted the Sixers the 6th pick + a 2015 first rounder... Kawhi is probably worth a bit more, so Id say he could get us a top 5 pick... The Jazz has 5 and 23 and are a friendly FO...

The problem is the worst teams need great talent, it's better for them to swing and miss than to settle for a confirmed 3rd banana most of the time if they can afford it... Not sure Cleveland can afford to go back to the lottery tho, they're in the same situation as Charlotte or Washington were not long ago.

That all depends Duncan, Robinson, Shaq, LeBron, Anthony Davis, Irving, Griffin, Howard, ect,,,,LMAO,,,,research is your friend,,,,

[cd021]

If the choice is between potentially getting the second coming of Hakeem, or at best a guy who turns into Carmelo or Vince Carter, I'm taking the chance on #1 first.

True. I'd rather miss on a big man.

[cd021]

The Spurs already have a French SF like that stashed away.

Livio Jean Charles. is 6'9 with a 7'3 wing span. Maybe the Spur could see him as a power forward in the NBA.

Damien Inglish is a big small forward similar to Leonard.


-Has terrific physical attributes for the wing at 6-7, with a very mature and strong frame, long arms and excellent athleticism

-Tremendous potential defensively. Has the wingspan, frame, intensity level, lateral quickness and instincts to stay in front of virtually any player. Guarded every position in the games we saw

-Playmaker on defense who racks up blocks, steals and rebounds with regularity

-Excellent feel for the game. Reads the defense. Very good court vision. Unselfish. Makes the extra pass

-Can play some pick and roll and find the open man

-Drives both left or right

-Very difficult to stop driving down the lane at the junior level as he's just too strong to stay in front of

-Very effective in transition. Unselfish enough to pass ahead but also strong enough to take the ball himself and score
-Can make an open 3-pointer (averaged one made 3-pointer per game at the NIJT, and also in French league)
-Has a bit of a post game. Looks for contact on his finishes

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz33GGbn6VE (http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz33GGbn6VE)
http://www.draftexpress.com

[cd021]

So the idea of Kawhi being worth a top pick isn't outlandish to me, and I don't think his ceiling is nearly as high as some people say it is. If Tyrus Thomas can net the second-overall pick, Leonard could get the first.

I don't think the Cavs could do much better than Kawhi at all. Hell, Battier netted the eighth-overall pick in 2006. Shane Battier.

My logic in the hypothetical was that if the Cavs were looking to stick it out with Irving (who may well leave) Waiters (who has had his share of problems) and Thompson, then they'd lively need a small forward (which they had hoped Deng would be an long term answer to). Leonard has been hyped up as an top talent that is just waiting to break out once Duncan and or Manu retires.

I think that if the Cavs were offered Leonard, they'd at least consider it. I've heard that there are concerns about his back and that recent high lottery big men that have struggled with injuries (Oden, Griffin, & Noel all missed their rookie year)have put extra scrutiny on their decision. Not to mention the the Bennett fiasco and firing Brown twice in 3 years along with their GM leading to uncertainty with their front office.

I hadn't though about a much bigger deal including Green, Splitter Leonard + 1st rounders for Varejao and Bennett their #1 pick. I would do that deal. They get prospects, an establish big man and two very good wings in their early to mid 20's. We get a top prospect and two player who wouldn't tie up our cap for more than couple of years.


I think given their recent track record drafting they may opt to forgo another risk and take a more established player who they have a better idea of what he can be.

[Chinook]

My logic in the hypothetical was that if the Cavs were looking to stick it out with Irving (who may well leave) Waiters (who has had his share of problems) and Thompson, then they'd lively need a small forward (which they had hoped Deng would be an long term answer to). Leonard has been hyped up as an top talent that is just waiting to break out once Duncan and or Manu retires.

I think that if the Cavs were offered Leonard, they'd at least consider it. I've heard that there are concerns about his back and that recent high lottery big men that have struggled with injuries (Oden, Griffin, & Noel all missed their rookie year)have put extra scrutiny on their decision. Not to mention the the Bennett fiasco and firing Brown twice in 3 years along with their GM leading to uncertainty with their front office.

I hadn't though about a much bigger deal including Green, Splitter Leonard + 1st rounders for Varejao and Bennett their #1 pick. I would do that deal. They get prospects, an establish big man and two very good wings in their early to mid 20's. We get a top prospect and two player who wouldn't tie up our cap for more than couple of years.


I think given their recent track record drafting they may opt to forgo another risk and take a more established player who they have a better idea of what he can be.

It's hard to win on talent alone. Ask OKC about that. You need established, top-notch vets. Eventually, a team has to acquire the right type of supporting cast, and that rarely comes through drafting at the top of the first. Leonard would probably be their second-best player. Splitter would be third or fourth, and Green would be fifth or sixth. Their starting unit finally becomes well-rounded and versatile. They'd lose Bennett, who doesn't even figure into their long-term plans (they may not even pick up his option, though I think they will) and Varejao, who in my opinion represents their third-biggest waste of value in the post-Lebron era after taking Bennett and failing to trade Hickson in a timely manner.

I don't think the upside of the first pick is really all that great. Even if they draft a player who ends up being like DeMarcus Cousins (who's becoming a damned fine center, and whose success Embiid would be very fortunate in emulating), it still puts them farther back than it would if they acquired Green, Leonard and Splitter while reserving Waiters and future picks to do more deals.

[BatManu20]

:lol All these scenarios are so unrealistic. Spurs aren't getting any of these hypothetical players.

Marc Gasol might be the only somewhat realistic option but even that is a long shot. I think he signs an extension with MEM next year after they sign Pau Gasol to play alongside with him this summer.

[TheyCallMePro]

First off, Embiid is going to be a bust. Saw him play at Kansas and he's completed overrated. He can't jump, has no post moves, and has a very thin frame. Add all that to the fact that he's only played basketball for a few years, and has no killer mindset whatsoever, and you have the very definition of a 'project big man'. Second, the trade wouldn't involve Leonard in any capacity. If were trading anyone, it would be Tony Parker, who has just a year left on his deal and would likely re-sign with the team we traded him to if they were willing to give up the #1 pick for him in the first place. Kyrie Irving is more of a 2 guard anyways. THe trade would make sense. But if it ever happened we would be drafting Andrew Freaking Wiggins. Not Joel Embiid.

[TheGoldStandard]

These guys are high prospects but they're raw, the Cavs don't have anything in a coaching staff to develop these players. Cavs will screw these guys up in some way.

[dg7md]

LeBron will go back to Cleveland before that even has a chance to be joked about in the front office of the teams involved.

[cjw]

And thats why Las Vegas always wins,,,people willing to roll the dice(against the odds) on an injury prone player over a solid player,,,,once again Durant>Oden.

Obviously assuming his physical doesn't have a complete red flag like Oden (THREE injuries that worried doctors). Bigs are inherently riskier because of their freak size. We've been incredibly lucky with Tim. Even guys like Shaq struggled through parts of their careers.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The Spurs are a systems team. Unless they decide to move away from Pop, they aren't going to change their current core to get a No 1 pick anytime soon. The way the current core plays - high Basketball IQ, Corporate Knowledge, deep knowledge of various play systems, play calls, etc - the only way for the Spurs to compete in a hypothetical Duncan/Ginobili retirement this season end or next (most likely) is to get a like for like replacement. THey won't get a replacement for Ginobili. He is too unique a player. But in Marc Gasol, they might someone who could approximate what Duncan (at 38/39) gives them. And they will be good to go for another couple of years before Parker/Pop ride into the sunset.

All this talk of trading Leonard is stupid. He will be the cornerstone of the Spurs squad for years to come. They are much too invested in him to let him go for a prospect even as good as Wiggins/ Embiid/Jabari. If it was Anthony Davis though, maybe they would thought about it.

[Baam]

^ Pop traded his favorite player because he didnt think he was worth paying...

[Captivus]

I wouldnt trade Kawhi or Green, for no reason.
I rather get a big like Love and lose Tiago, picks and maybe another player like CoJo.

[PublicOption]

no.
3 years in our system and his freakish body type would warrant. their #1 and #2.

[PublicOption]

....or 1 this year and 1 next year.

[TampaDude]

Hey, guys...can we finish THIS season first? :lol

[Spurs9]

Sure trade Parker for the pick.

[CGD]

It's all academic if Tim returns next season, but if he rings this year I don't think this is an unreasonable convo to start talking about now. If Tim does leave, the next convo is with Parker re his wishes. He's meant so much to the team that he deserves that at least.

In addition, if I'm Holt seeing the recent purchase prices for teams (low end Bucks 550m/high end Clips 2b), I can't help but start thinking about an exist plan over the next 2 years. One way to do that is to gut the team and acquire picks to start clearing the balance sheets. We may not like it, but it's going to be a consideration of management once Tim hangs it up.

[jag]

The Gasol family lives in Memphis and Marc went to high school there. If he has the option to stay, he'll stay.

[Cry Havoc]

Not that easy. Almost exact situation happened with Oden and Durant. Everyone said take the prodigy in the paint over the scorer,,,we know how that worked out.

No. There is nothing remotely like that situation with this one. Oden was known to be a HUGE injury risk. They were knowingly rolling the dice with him (because, hello, the draft wasn't nearly as deep that year and no one saw Durant becoming an unstoppable offensive weapon). Embiid has never had a career of sustained, long-term, impactful injuries. He's been completely free of them for the most part, actually.


man stop listening to espn. nothign i've seen in this guy shows me he'll be an hakeem type player. people need to stop with the nonsense.

Terrible take. Do you actually watch the guy play or just knee-jerk when people say something good about non-Spurs players?

Look at this workout video and tell me his movement, agility, and feel for the game doesn't remind you of Hakeem:

Gp7PX7hYUFQ

I mean, damn. That is fucking impressive regardless of who's guarding him.

[cd021]

Terrible take. Do you actually watch the guy play or just knee-jerk when people say something good about non-Spurs players?

Look at this workout video and tell me his movement, agility, and feel for the game doesn't remind you of Hakeem:

Gp7PX7hYUFQ

I mean, damn. That is fucking impressive regardless of who's guarding him.

I agree. i see some Dream in his game. Not to mention he is apparently several inches taller and more athletic. There is a video of Hakeem working with Amare and some of those moves are similar to Embiids.

[Gino-Step]

In the new NBA, you want as many Kawhi's and Andrew Wiggans as possible. You have no need for Roy Hibbert, Joel Embiid types.

Bertans - Leonard - Livio - Daye - Diaw

[BatManu20]

:lol All these scenarios are so unrealistic. Spurs aren't getting any of these hypothetical players.

Marc Gasol might be the only somewhat realistic option but even that is a long shot. I think he signs an extension with MEM next year after they sign Pau Gasol to play alongside with him this summer.

[Kidd K]

The first pick in the draft is worth a lot more than Leonard and Splitter or Green.

Splitter's value (with his current contract) isn't very high. Leonard, while valuble, is nowhere near 1st pick worthy. That's supposed to net you a superstar for low cost. You couldn't pry that shit off Gilbert with anything we have. I mean Parker and a throw in would be worth it but they already have Irving.

[Chinook]

Does anyone still doubt that the Spurs could trade for the first-overall pick if they wanted to?

[DPG21920]

Well "Still" is a mis-leading word. When the thread was started, no chance. With the injury, possibly.

[spursparker9]

Why not?

I heard rumors that they tried to trade Timmy for the 2007 number 1 pick which could have acquired Greg Oden.

[Chinook]

Well "Still" is a mis-leading word. When the thread was started, no chance. With the injury, possibly.

Nothing misleading about it. Embiid's injury and Kawhi's fMVP performance makes it even more obvious.

[DPG21920]

Nothing misleading about it. Embiid's injury and Kawhi's fMVP performance makes it even more obvious.

Thought you were trying to imply that pre-injury you felt the Spurs had a reasonable shot.

[Chinook]

Thought you were trying to imply that pre-injury you felt the Spurs had a reasonable shot.

I did. But now, I imagine most agree.

[DPG21920]

Interesting.

[xmas1997]

Does anyone still doubt that the Spurs could trade for the first-overall pick if they wanted to?

Not me, your points are rational, but I wouldn't do it if I were the GM.

[BanditHiro]

we need to get Ender Wiggins

[Chinook]

Not me, your points are rational, but I wouldn't do it if I were the GM.

I wouldn't do it.

[cd98]

The first pick in the draft is worth a lot more than Leonard and Splitter or Green.

Splitter's value (with his current contract) isn't very high. Leonard, while valuble, is nowhere near 1st pick worthy. That's supposed to net you a superstar for low cost. You couldn't pry that shit off Gilbert with anything we have. I mean Parker and a throw in would be worth it but they already have Irving.

What? Kawhi is a proven talent. You know he is a top end defender that can guard the best player in the NBA and you know he has a high level offense. You have no idea if Wiggins will ever be a go to player or if Parker's game will translate to the pros. You take a young Leonard all day over an unknown quantity.

i agree on Splitter, but only slightly. There are a handful of bigs in the NBA that can do what he does. He may not be worth an overall number one, but he's definitely got top 8 value. You have to remember that half of the lottery picks don't amount to anything in the NBA. How many players in last year's lottery would you take over Splitter. Probably none.

[Thomas82]

What? Kawhi is a proven talent. You know he is a top end defender that can guard the best player in the NBA and you know he has a high level offense. You have no idea if Wiggins will ever be a go to player or if Parker's game will translate to the pros. You take a young Leonard all day over an unknown quantity.

i agree on Splitter, but only slightly. There are a handful of bigs in the NBA that can do what he does. He may not be worth an overall number one, but he's definitely got top 8 value. You have to remember that half of the lottery picks don't amount to anything in the NBA. How many players in last year's lottery would you take over Splitter. Probably none.

+1

[100%duncan]

What? Kawhi is a proven talent. You know he is a top end defender that can guard the best player in the NBA and you know he has a high level offense. You have no idea if Wiggins will ever be a go to player or if Parker's game will translate to the pros. You take a young Leonard all day over an unknown quantity.

i agree on Splitter, but only slightly. There are a handful of bigs in the NBA that can do what he does. He may not be worth an overall number one, but he's definitely got top 8 value. You have to remember that half of the lottery picks don't amount to anything in the NBA. How many players in last year's lottery would you take over Splitter. Probably none.
This guy already said it all.

[Kidd K]

What? Kawhi is a proven talent. You know he is a top end defender that can guard the best player in the NBA and you know he has a high level offense. You have no idea if Wiggins will ever be a go to player or if Parker's game will translate to the pros. You take a young Leonard all day over an unknown quantity.

i agree on Splitter, but only slightly. There are a handful of bigs in the NBA that can do what he does. He may not be worth an overall number one, but he's definitely got top 8 value. You have to remember that half of the lottery picks don't amount to anything in the NBA. How many players in last year's lottery would you take over Splitter. Probably none.

Here's the problem: Whoever trades for these players has to pay for them. . .and pay a lot more than they would for a rookie who has the very likely potential he will be better than Leonard. Look at the top 1-3 picks of just about every draft lately. Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, Unibrow, John Wall, etc.

Combine the fact that you barely have to pay for those players for years, and their value is a LOT higher. It isn't just the potential, which is greater.

As for last year's draft, it was notoriously poor and was expected to be weak going in. This one is the opposite.

The Cavs will not throw away their pick for a costly role player(s) and a guy who while good, has never made an all star team.

[Mel_13]

Here's the problem: Whoever trades for these players has to pay for them. . .and pay a lot more than they would for a rookie who has the very likely potential he will be better than Leonard. Look at the top 1-3 picks of just about every draft lately. Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, Unibrow, John Wall, etc.

Anthony Bennett, Derrick Williams, Evan Turner, Michael Beasley, etc.

[phxspurfan]

Trade a 22yo all-star for a wild card who's only a couple years younger at best and will take at least 2 years to develop? Nah.

[Chinook]

Trade a 22yo all-star for a wild card who's only a couple years younger at best and will take at least 2 years to develop? Nah.

Don't think about this from the Spurs' angle. That's not the point of the thread. Rather we're talking about whether the Spurs have the value to swing a trade for the first-overall pick if they want to. I think yes (and thought so last month). In fact, I think the Spurs should turn down any offer Cleveland gives.

[Chinook]

Here's the problem: Whoever trades for these players has to pay for them. . .and pay a lot more than they would for a rookie who has the very likely potential he will be better than Leonard. Look at the top 1-3 picks of just about every draft lately. Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, Unibrow, John Wall, etc.

Combine the fact that you barely have to pay for those players for years, and their value is a LOT higher. It isn't just the potential, which is greater.

As for last year's draft, it was notoriously poor and was expected to be weak going in. This one is the opposite.

The Cavs will not throw away their pick for a costly role player(s) and a guy who while good, has never made an all star team.

That's not a problem, since Bennett and Varejao would be going out. The trade would be cash-neutral. Also, teams should want expensive role-players when those players have proven to be worth the money. Both Green and Splitter would start along with Leonard and whomever the Cavs would use at PF. So the trade would set up 3/5 of their SL with players who know what it takes to win and who are among the best in the league in their crafts, while also being relatively young and still having room to grow. And then of course, Leonard.

I'm very confident that Green/Leonard/Splitter will hold better value over the next four years than first pick/Bennett/Varejao. I would not do that trade if I were the Spurs. If the Cavs were to laugh off the deal, they'd probably end up regretting it.

[phxspurfan]

Don't think about this from the Spurs' angle. That's not the point of the thread. Rather we're talking about whether the Spurs have the value to swing a trade for the first-overall pick if they want to. I think yes (and thought so last month). In fact, I think the Spurs should turn down any offer Cleveland gives.

Oh, well in that case, yes. Especially considering the injury to one of the top 3 picks. I always considered this draft class one of great role players. I see Wiggins turning out to be a good all-around player, Parker to turn out to be a scorer, and Embiid to be a good big man, but not the second coming of the Dream. In that light, I see KL have good value to another GM. But yes, the trade won't happen at all. KL is a Spur for at least the next extension.

[Kidd K]

Anthony Bennett, Derrick Williams, Evan Turner, Michael Beasley, etc.

Low risk high reward that's cheap vs high risk medium reward that costs more.

That's what this hypothetical deal is. It's less of a risk and would not receive any backlash for making the pick instead of trading it. Imagine if they trade it and the top pick ends up being the next Hakeem. It would be heralded as the worst trade in NBA history.

[Kidd K]

That's not a problem, since Bennett and Varejao would be going out. The trade would be cash-neutral. Also, teams should want expensive role-players when those players have proven to be worth the money. Both Green and Splitter would start along with Leonard and whomever the Cavs would use at PF. So the trade would set up 3/5 of their SL with players who know what it takes to win and who are among the best in the league in their crafts, while also being relatively young and still having room to grow. And then of course, Leonard.

I'm very confident that Green/Leonard/Splitter will hold better value over the next four years than first pick/Bennett/Varejao. I would not do that trade if I were the Spurs. If the Cavs were to laugh off the deal, they'd probably end up regretting it.

It was Kawhi and Splitter or Green, not all three, but yeah.

I don't think Kawhi/Green/Splitter will hold more value anyway. Kawhi, as much as we all love him, is clearly not #1 pick quality under the terms we understand it (superstar). Splitter isn't any better than Varejao. But yeah I'd much rather have Green than Bennett right now. Definitely.

[Chinook]

It was Kawhi and Splitter or Green, not all three, but yeah.

I don't think Kawhi/Green/Splitter will hold more value anyway. Kawhi, as much as we all love him, is clearly not #1 pick quality under the terms we understand it (superstar). Splitter isn't any better than Varejao. But yeah I'd much rather have Green than Bennett right now. Definitely.


No, it was all three. It was my proposal that even brought Danny and Tiago into this current part of the thread. Maybe I had a typo, but the intention was the three Spurs for the three Cavs.

I think we understand the value of the first-overall pick differently. I don't think of it as being a superstar, since it's usually not. I think the odds are good that whomever the Cavs draft will be worse than Leonard over the course of their careers. That's just the way or happens. Proven players are hard to find, especially 22-year-old fMVPs who play at a position of need. If Wiggins/Parker had Kawhi's career through three years, they will be worth their draft status.

Splitter's way better than Varejao, especially next to a PF like Thompson. Tiago is one of the top five all-round defensive bigs in the league. Anderson's health is even worse than Splitter's was when he first came into the league.

[cd98]

That's not a problem, since Bennett and Varejao would be going out. The trade would be cash-neutral. Also, teams should want expensive role-players when those players have proven to be worth the money. Both Green and Splitter would start along with Leonard and whomever the Cavs would use at PF. So the trade would set up 3/5 of their SL with players who know what it takes to win and who are among the best in the league in their crafts, while also being relatively young and still having room to grow. And then of course, Leonard.

I'm very confident that Green/Leonard/Splitter will hold better value over the next four years than first pick/Bennett/Varejao. I would not do that trade if I were the Spurs. If the Cavs were to laugh off the deal, they'd probably end up regretting it.

This and the Cavs are on record for saying that like to trade the pick for an established player. They want to start winning, not contue to be below average while they wait and hope their talent developed.

[cd98]

It was Kawhi and Splitter or Green, not all three, but yeah.

I don't think Kawhi/Green/Splitter will hold more value anyway. Kawhi, as much as we all love him, is clearly not #1 pick quality under the terms we understand it (superstar). Splitter isn't any better than Varejao. But yeah I'd much rather have Green than Bennett right now. Definitely.

He's damn close. He'll be an all star as that crap is a popularity contest and he'll have plenty of that due to his finals performance. With his skill set and work ethic at his young age and what he's accomplished against the two best players in the NBA on the biggest stage, if be surprised if any GM preferred to gamble on Parker or Wiggins. They may have cheaper contracts, but who cares if they are busts, which could well happen. See their tournament performances.

[kobyz]

Most spurs fans wouldn't trade Kawhi even for Lebron!

[Kidd K]

No, it was all three. It was my proposal that even brought Danny and Tiago into this current part of the thread. Maybe I had a typo, but the intention was the three Spurs for the three Cavs.

I think we understand the value of the first-overall pick differently. I don't think of it as being a superstar, since it's usually not. I think the odds are good that whomever the Cavs draft will be worse than Leonard over the course of their careers. That's just the way or happens. Proven players are hard to find, especially 22-year-old fMVPs who play at a position of need. If Wiggins/Parker had Kawhi's career through three years, they will be worth their draft status.

Splitter's way better than Varejao, especially next to a PF like Thompson. Tiago is one of the top five all-round defensive bigs in the league. Anderson's health is even worse than Splitter's was when he first came into the league.

No fuckin way is Kawhi "more likely to have a better career than the #1 pick.

Modern era #1 picks:

1979: Magic Johnson
1980: Joe Carrol
1981: Mark Aguire
1982: James Worthy
1983: Ralph Sampson
1984: Hakeem Olajuwon
1985: Patrick Ewing
1986: Brad Daugherty
1987: David Robinson
1988: Danny Manning
1989: Pervis Ellison
1990: Derrick Coleman
1991: Larry Johnson
1992: Shaquille O'Neal
1993: Chris Webber
1994: Glenn Robinson
1995: Joe Smith
1996: Allen Iverson
1997: Tim Duncan
1998: Michael Olowakandi
1999: Elton Brand
2000: Kenyon Martin
2001: Kwame Brown
2002: Yao Ming
2003: LeBron James
2004: Dwight Howard
2005: Andrew Bogut
2006: Andrea Bargnani
2007: Greg Oden
2008: Derrick Rose
2009: Blake Griffin
2010: John Wall
2011: Kyrie Irving
2012: Anthony Davis
2013: Anthony Bennett


You can argue 7 or so are worse than Leonard now (due to injury mostly, but some were busts). Like half of those dudes are superstars WAY above what Kawhi will ever be even if the planets align and he peaks to his peak potential. The remaining 10 or so are easily better than Kawhi has been so far.

So no. . .sorry, but it isn't "likely". It's just "possible", and unlikely.

You do not throw away that potential for two role players and a dude who maybe could make the all star team a few times. You just don't.

[cd98]

No fuckin way is Kawhi "more likely to have a better career than the #1 pick.

Modern era #1 picks:

1979: Magic Johnson
1980: Joe Carrol
1981: Mark Aguire
1982: James Worthy
1983: Ralph Sampson
1984: Hakeem Olajuwon
1985: Patrick Ewing
1986: Brad Daugherty
1987: David Robinson
1988: Danny Manning
1989: Pervis Ellison
1990: Derrick Coleman
1991: Larry Johnson
1992: Shaquille O'Neal
1993: Chris Webber
1994: Glenn Robinson
1995: Joe Smith
1996: Allen Iverson
1997: Tim Duncan
1998: Michael Olowakandi
1999: Elton Brand
2000: Kenyon Martin
2001: Kwame Brown
2002: Yao Ming
2003: LeBron James
2004: Dwight Howard
2005: Andrew Bogut
2006: Andrea Bargnani
2007: Greg Oden
2008: Derrick Rose
2009: Blake Griffin
2010: John Wall
2011: Kyrie Irving
2012: Anthony Davis
2013: Anthony Bennett


You can argue 7 or so are worse than Leonard now (due to injury mostly, but some were busts). Like half of those dudes are superstars WAY above what Kawhi will ever be even if the planets align and he peaks to his peak potential. The remaining 10 or so are easily better than Kawhi has been so far.

So no. . .sorry, but it isn't "likely". It's just "possible", and unlikely.

You do not throw away that potential for two role players and a dude who maybe could make the all star team a few times. You just don't.

How many of those guys are finals MVPs?

[Chinook]

No fuckin way is Kawhi "more likely to have a better career than the #1 pick.

Modern era #1 picks:

1979: Magic Johnson
1980: Joe Carrol
1981: Mark Aguire
1982: James Worthy
1983: Ralph Sampson
1984:Hakeem Olajuwon
1985: Patrick Ewing
1986: Brad Daugherty
1987: David Robinson
1988: Danny Manning
1989: Pervis Ellison
1990: Derrick Coleman
1991: Larry Johnson
1992: Shaquille O'Neal
1993: Chris Webber
1994: Glenn Robinson
1995: Joe Smith
1996: Allen Iverson
1997: Tim Duncan
1998: Michael Olowakandi
1999: Elton Brand
2000: Kenyon Martin
2001: Kwame Brown
2002: Yao Ming
2003: LeBron James
2004: Dwight Howard
2005: Andrew Bogut
2006: Andrea Bargnani
2007: Greg Oden
2008: Derrick Rose
2009: Blake Griffin
2010: John Wall
2011:Kyrie Irving
2012: Anthony Davis
2013: Anthony Bennett


You can argue 7 or so are worse than Leonard now (due to injury mostly, but some were busts). Like half of those dudes are superstars WAY above what Kawhi will ever be even if the planets align and he peaks to his peak potential. The remaining 10 or so are easily better than Kawhi has been so far.

So no. . .sorry, but it isn't "likely". It's just "possible", and unlikely.

You do not throw away that potential for two role players and a dude who maybe could make the all star team a few times. You just don't.

Over the last 10 years (including this one) , I'd only take two first picks over Leonard out of hand: Davis and Griffin. I could see taking Rose in a world were no one gets hurt. I'd take Kawhi over Wall and Irving and obviously so over the rest.

[Kidd K]

Over the last 10 years (including this one) , I'd only take two first picks over Leonard out of hand: Davis and Griffin. I could see taking Rose in a world were no one gets hurt. I'd take Kawhi over Wall and Irving and obviously so over the rest.

It's ridiculous you wouldn't take Dwight Howard, Wall, Irving, or Rose. Bogut is arguably better too. Bennett and Oden were busts, Bargs is all right but yeah worse than Leonard.

[cd021]

Here's the problem: Whoever trades for these players has to pay for them. . .and pay a lot more than they would for a rookie who has the very likely potential he will be better than Leonard. Look at the top 1-3 picks of just about every draft lately. Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, Unibrow, John Wall, etc.

Combine the fact that you barely have to pay for those players for years, and their value is a LOT higher. It isn't just the potential, which is greater.

As for last year's draft, it was notoriously poor and was expected to be weak going in. This one is the opposite.

The Cavs will not throw away their pick for a costly role player(s) and a guy who while good, has never made an all star team.

If the Cavs were offered Kawhi, Tiago or Green for the number #1 pick, I'd think they'd do it. My logic is similar to CD98s. All 3 of these players are proven talents with useful skills.

Leonards; defense,rebounding, & efficient scoring. Greens; defense, rebounding and elite 3 point shooting and Splitters versatility in defending the paint and stretch 4s along with passing and finishing. Neither Wiggins, Parker or any other in player comes with certainty at the next level.

Leonards production has been suppressed by minutes limitations and a balanced offense that but
Just because they have the talent to be taken with a top 3 pick doesn't ensure that they will be successes just based on recent drafts.

2010-Wall, Turner, and Favors
2011-Irving,Williams, Kantor
2012-Davis, MKG, Beal
2013-Bennett, Oladipo, Porter

only 3 of the 12 top 3 picks taken from '10-12 have been all-stars.

I thought Embiid was the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft but the rest seem far from a sure thing Wiggins and Parker could be all-stars or they could be very good but not great players.

Its like taking the mystery box or $1 million dollars. The mystery box could have $3 million in it or it could have enough for half a tank of gas.

With the Cavs recent underwhelming top 5 picks (Thompson, Waiters, Bennett) I'd think they take the proven commodities and avoid any further embarrassment to their organization.

[Kidd K]

How many of those guys are finals MVPs?

5. 13 Finals MVPs between them.

[Chinook]

It's ridiculous you wouldn't take Dwight Howard, Wall, Irving, or Rose. Bogut is arguably better too. Bennett and Oden were busts, Bargs is all right but yeah worse than Leonard.

Howard was 11 drafts ago. I'd take him, James and Yao, but leave the four before them.

It's not ridiculous to not take Rose, especially after what we know now. Irving is overrated, and Kawhi's definitely been more impactful so far. I like Wall, but he's only been playing at a high level for a year and a half, and even then, he sucked for most of the post-season.

[cd98]

5. 13 Finals MVPs between them.

Right. The number gets smaller. How Many of them won it at 22?

[Mel_13]

Low risk high reward that's cheap vs high risk medium reward that costs more.

That's what this hypothetical deal is. It's less of a risk and would not receive any backlash for making the pick instead of trading it. Imagine if they trade it and the top pick ends up being the next Hakeem. It would be heralded as the worst trade in NBA history.

We completely disagree on that risk assessment.

Moving on.