Spurs must have seen something on film...

[exstatic]

about Wade's dribble or maybe his crossover. They attacked him with Green IMMEDIATELY, and it paid off in spades. Green isn't normally know for steals, but tonight, he was Jesse James and Wade was The Bank. :lol

[Strategic]

Wade was pretty much a non factor. If no early foul trouble Green should shut him down in game 4 where all that will be left of Wade is a mysterious limp.

[crc21209]

Yeah Green was amazing on D tonight. It's like he knew every single move Wade was going to make before he even made it..

[Skull-1]

I hope he keeps it up.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Green has been tightening the defensive screws on Wade as the series has progressed and I have greatly enjoyed seeing Dwayne's consternation as his favorite moves get taken away one by one :lol

[Malik Hairston]

Wade is a glorified role player, tbh, people don't recognize it because they hate Lebron:lol..he's one of the top 3-4 SGs of all-time, but his prime was a long time ago, he's no different than current Manu..

He has only been effective in this series when he's been matched up against bench defenders..

[Kidd K]

Dwayne Wade is a lot better than current Manu, stop it.

Our best defensive players play the positions Wade, LeBron, and Bosh play, while our best two offensive players plays the positions they're weakest at defensively. That's why they tend to struggle with us.

We were basically designed to beat teams like Miami before they even came together, then drafted Leonard to counter Durant and LeBron.

LeBron has plenty of help. Miami is much better than Cleveland was.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Dwayne Wade is a lot better than current Manu, stop it.

Perhaps better. Not "a lot" better.

[Kidd K]

Perhaps better. Not "a lot" better.

So you wouldn't rather have Wade than Ginobili if the pricetag was the same?

We would probably have 8 titles if we had Wade the last 3 years and this year. LeBron would still have 0 if he had Manu instead.

[gilmor]

They deny Heat's wing pass. The defended the screens for Lebron real well in this game.

[Darius McCrary]

he's one of the top 3-4 SGs of all-time :rolleyes x 100000000000000000

[moisaenz]

So you wouldn't rather have Wade than Ginobili if the pricetag was the same?

We would probably have 8 titles if we had Wade the last 3 years and this year. LeBron would still have 0 if he had Manu instead.
Most probably because of the system and being less turnover prone.

[Malik Hairston]

Wade was beyond awful in last year's playoffs..statistically, the Heat were worse when he was on the floor..he averaged 16 PPG on an atrocious 49% TS in last year's playoffs:lmao..

Last year's Wade was probably one of the 4-5 worst #2 options for a title team in history..he was bad by any standard or metric you can choose, tbh..

This year, the Heat played against one of the shittiest conferences of all-time, and Wade still has average on/off metrics..his impact on the Heat is very limited, the numbers agree..now that he's playing against legit competition, he looks terrible again, unless he's being guarded by the Spurs' bench players..

[Malik Hairston]

Ginobili has been much, much better than Wade in the playoffs, despite better opposing competition..not sure if it's even arguable, tbh..

[Kidd K]

49% is only slightly below average, and 16 PPG isn't bad at all. That would nearly lead the Spurs, lol. What is your point?

Manu was trash in the Finals last year outside of one and a half games.

Manu used to be great and is playing okay right now, but Wade is and always was better.

[Malik Hairston]

49% True Shooting is actually awful:lmao..

His team was worse when he was on the floor throughout the playoffs..

Manu was terrible last year, I didn't argue that, but he has been much better than Wade this year..

My point about Wade is that he has been a glorified role player since last year, where he had a terrible playoffs, and while he's been better this year, he no longer has a significant impact on a game, especially when being defended by good defensive players..

[Malik Hairston]

And Wade can't shoot 3s and over-dribbles, not sure how he would fit in the Spurs system, at all..his style of play is antiquated in today's NBA..

[LoneStarState'sPride]

So you wouldn't rather have Wade than Ginobili if the pricetag was the same?

All things equal, gimme Manu.

At least when Manu's shot is off he is able to contribute in more ways than Wade.

[Chinook]

I don't like Wade's game nowadays. Ginobili can still make better wow plays and is a better shooter. Granted, the Spurs' supporting cast is much better than the Heat's so we don't know how Wade would be on the Spurs. But I wouldn't want to find out.

[DAF86]

So you wouldn't rather have Wade than Ginobili if the pricetag was the same?

We would probably have 8 titles if we had Wade the last 3 years and this year. LeBron would still have 0 if he had Manu instead.

You're so retarded.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Manu used to be great and is playing okay right now, but Wade is and always was better.

Incorrect.

Sit your ass down.

[cd021]

Dwayne Wade is a lot better than current Manu, stop it.

Our best defensive players play the positions Wade, LeBron, and Bosh play, while our best two offensive players plays the positions they're weakest at defensively. That's why they tend to struggle with us.

We were basically designed to beat teams like Miami before they even came together, then drafted Leonard to counter Durant and LeBron.


Thats highly debateable. Even with Manu's hot-cold game to game playoffs games, Wade is every bit as unpredictable. He is easier to guard than Ginobili is for sure. His lack of a 3pt shot hurts them in certain lineups. Ginobili is one of the best at creating open 3pt looks via screens and pull ups in transition.

LeBron has plenty of help. Miami is much better than Cleveland was.

Per 36 minutes stats for both (Wade plays 9 minutes more per game)

Wade-19.2 pts, 4.2 rebs., 4.3 asts., 1.5 stls., 51.5%, 38.1% 3pt, 81.4% FT +1 Net Rtg 20.3 P.E.R

Ginobili-21 pts, 4.8 rebs., 6.3 asts., 2.5 stls., 43.0%, 38.3% 3pt, 86.9% FT +11 Net Rtg, 21.5 P.E.R

I may be looking at it through Spurs colored glasses but I'd take Ginobili and its not even close. When he is on his ability to create for himself and others is can take over games. Wade is generally fine when he shares the floor with Lebron but its a completely different story when he has to carry the offense. Wade isn't a very good defender while Ginobili at 36 is clearly still better than him.

[OrEmuN]

Green has been tightening the defensive screws on Wade as the series has progressed and I have greatly enjoyed seeing Dwayne's consternation as his favorite moves get taken away one by one :lol

Green will always have a problem with Wade's all-time favourite move - the flop

[SupremeGuy]

So you wouldn't rather have Wade than Ginobili if the pricetag was the same?

We would probably have 8 titles if we had Wade the last 3 years and this year. LeBron would still have 0 if he had Manu instead.Removing all variables? I'd take Manu, tbh.

[xellos88330]

The Heat play that ball hawking defense to generate points in transition. Danny and Kawhi were guilty of being hesitant when they received the ball. This allowed the Heat to key in on the ball and clog the passing lanes, thus disrupting the flow of the Spurs offense. The adjustment was simple. Drive, shoot or pass immediately once you get the ball. This caught the Heat completely off guard as this is out of character for the two young guns. It was a total blitz. With the ball continuously in motion either by pass or drive the Heat couldn't clog the lanes as they are used to. It also caused really bad rotations and forced a lot of fouls. If the Spurs don't let the Heat key in on the passing lanes, this series will be tough for Miami to pull off.

Go Spurs Go!!!

[MI21]

Wade has always been turnover prone, the really simple move was to have Green on Wade at all times. I'm sure they knew this heading into the series.

[hsxvvd]

..he's one of the top 30-40 SGs of all-time..

Fixed.

[heyheymymy]

Perhaps the craziest stat of the night: Spurs outscored Miami by 21 points when LeBron was ON the court.

[SouthernFried]

Current Ginobili over current Wade...any day of the week.

Prime Ginobili over Prime Wade...any day of the week.

Previous 2 yrs Ginobili was awful tho. Ginobili was in pain for the last couple of seasons, and just wasn't good. This year he's not in pain, but has lost a step or 2 from age. But, Yeah...I would take Ginobili over Wade. We don't win 2 championships without Ginobili. Ginobili at the top of the key on key possessions, when he was in his prime...was glorious.

[Kidd K]

You're so retarded.

Tremendous reply, full of great counter points, and not just a douchebag post at all.



Incorrect.

Sit your ass down.

You're a blind homer if you think Manu has been better than Dwayne Wade over his career.

[Kidd K]

Per 36 minutes stats for both (Wade plays 9 minutes more per game)

Wade-19.2 pts, 4.2 rebs., 4.3 asts., 1.5 stls., 51.5%, 38.1% 3pt, 81.4% FT +1 Net Rtg 20.3 P.E.R

Ginobili-21 pts, 4.8 rebs., 6.3 asts., 2.5 stls., 43.0%, 38.3% 3pt, 86.9% FT +11 Net Rtg, 21.5 P.E.R

I may be looking at it through Spurs colored glasses but I'd take Ginobili and its not even close. When he is on his ability to create for himself and others is can take over games. Wade is generally fine when he shares the floor with Lebron but its a completely different story when he has to carry the offense. Wade isn't a very good defender while Ginobili at 36 is clearly still better than him.

Per 36 stats are going to favor a player playing 9 1/2 less minutes per game.

Let's talk stats though. Let's throw out the stats from the first two rounds since they barely matter. Neither of those teams were supposed to lose before the conference Finals. Not to mention we're talking about how they're playing now. This series and the last one are the most recent and most important.

Wade in ECF and Finals: 22 PPG. 4.4 RPG. 4 APG. 54.3% FG%

Manu in WCF and Finals: 15.2 PPG. 2.9 RPG. 4.2 APG. 49.4% FG%


Wade's production is also pretty consistent. Manu is up and down and all over the place. He is playing better now and has played better in the big games.

Also for the rest of the comment, we can go back and compare their previous years' playoff and regular stats too, but Wade dominates bigtime so there isn't much to talk about there.


Don't get me wrong, I think Manu has been playing well this postseason besides the occasional ghost game or devolution into a sloppy gambler. But it's ridiculous to claim he's better than Wade. Wade is a top 10 all time SG. Maybe top 5-8.

[smeagol]

Back in the day, people said they would take Vince Carter over Manu. Opinions are like assholes . . .

[Seventyniner]

The Heat play that ball hawking defense to generate points in transition. Danny and Kawhi were guilty of being hesitant when they received the ball. This allowed the Heat to key in on the ball and clog the passing lanes, thus disrupting the flow of the Spurs offense. The adjustment was simple. Drive, shoot or pass immediately once you get the ball. This caught the Heat completely off guard as this is out of character for the two young guns. It was a total blitz. With the ball continuously in motion either by pass or drive the Heat couldn't clog the lanes as they are used to. It also caused really bad rotations and forced a lot of fouls. If the Spurs don't let the Heat key in on the passing lanes, this series will be tough for Miami to pull off.

Go Spurs Go!!!

Good post. :toast

Also, the Heat are among the best (or are they the best?) at defending the PnR, so running it with Tony or Manu and Tim - while having Green and Leonard stand in the corners - plays right into the Heat's hands. Involving Green and Leonard in the offense early can really scramble the defense, especially if Green can go 5/5 at the rim.

[james evans]

Wade was beyond awful in last year's playoffs..statistically, the Heat were worse when he was on the floor..he averaged 16 PPG on an atrocious 49% TS in last year's playoffs:lmao..

Last year's Wade was probably one of the 4-5 worst #2 options for a title team in history..he was bad by any standard or metric you can choose, tbh..

This year, the Heat played against one of the shittiest conferences of all-time, and Wade still has average on/off metrics..his impact on the Heat is very limited, the numbers agree..now that he's playing against legit competition, he looks terrible again, unless he's being guarded by the Spurs' bench players..
did u see any spurs games last year? the whole playoffs manu was shitty outside of game 5 in the finals and about 2 or 3 others. i dont' know what the fuk was wrong with him last year

[exstatic]

49% is only slightly below average, and 16 PPG isn't bad at all. That would nearly lead the Spurs, lol. What is your point?

Manu was trash in the Finals last year outside of one and a half games.

Manu used to be great and is playing okay right now, but Wade is and always was better.
Not sure if you're confusing FG% with TS%. 49 is an AWFUL TS% number for a guard. Put it this way, Russell Westbrook is considered an out of control chucker, and his TS% number for this year is 55.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Tremendous reply, full of great counter points, and not just a douchebag post at all.




You're a blind homer if you think Manu has been better than Dwayne Wade over his career.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

[Kidd K]

Not sure if you're confusing FG% with TS%. 49 is an AWFUL TS% number for a guard. Put it this way, Russell Westbrook is considered an out of control chucker, and his TS% number for this year is 55.

49.8% FG% would be great for a guard, so I couldn't have been saying that was a bit below average.

And yes, Westbrook has a high TS% due to his inordinate amount of FTAs jacking up his scoring efficiency.

Anyway, Wade's overall TS% was right barely below 50% last year, and that's only a little below league average. He was hurt and played poorly early in the playoffs against teams Miami was owning anyway. If only Manu decided to shit the bed in games in early rounds instead of championship deciding games, his shitty performances would have meant nothing instead of everything.

How many horrible games did Wade have again? One mediocre one where at least he wasn't extremely detrimental to his team. Wade's worst Finals game was better than basically 4 of Manu's 7 games and arguably better than his 3rd best too. He got better as the postseason went on, Manu's stats drop the deeper we go.

[apalisoc_9]

kidd k :lmao

[Vito Corleone]

Wade is a glorified role player, tbh, people don't recognize it because they hate Lebron:lol..he's one of the top 3-4 SGs of all-time, but his prime was a long time ago, he's no different than current Manu..

He has only been effective in this series when he's been matched up against bench defenders..

He is definitely one of the top 10 but there have been some fantastic PGs

Jordan
Drexler
Kobe
Jerry West
Earl Monroe
Reggie Miller
Wade
Gervin
Mitch Richmond
Allan Iverson

[Shastafarian]

Wade is a top 10 all time SG. Maybe top 5-8.

haha no. Would you still hold this opinion if he wasn't gifted a title in 2006? This era of the superfriends also inflates his worth. To be fair, he has historically had a very high FG% for a guard. But no, he is not top 10 and certainly not top 5 of all time.

[Shastafarian]

He is definitely one of the top 10 but there have been some fantastic PGs

Jordan
Drexler
Kobe
Jerry West
Earl Monroe
Reggie Miller
Wade
Gervin
Mitch Richmond
Allan IversonHavlicek and Maravich too.

[superbigtime]

Per 36 minutes stats for both (Wade plays 9 minutes more per game)

Wade-19.2 pts, 4.2 rebs., 4.3 asts., 1.5 stls., 51.5%, 38.1% 3pt, 81.4% FT +1 Net Rtg 20.3 P.E.R

Ginobili-21 pts, 4.8 rebs., 6.3 asts., 2.5 stls., 43.0%, 38.3% 3pt, 86.9% FT +11 Net Rtg, 21.5 P.E.R

I may be looking at it through Spurs colored glasses but I'd take Ginobili and its not even close. When he is on his ability to create for himself and others is can take over games. Wade is generally fine when he shares the floor with Lebron but its a completely different story when he has to carry the offense. Wade isn't a very good defender while Ginobili at 36 is clearly still better than him.

Love those stats!

[ceperez]

The Heat play that ball hawking defense to generate points in transition. Danny and Kawhi were guilty of being hesitant when they received the ball. This allowed the Heat to key in on the ball and clog the passing lanes, thus disrupting the flow of the Spurs offense. The adjustment was simple. Drive, shoot or pass immediately once you get the ball. This caught the Heat completely off guard as this is out of character for the two young guns. It was a total blitz. With the ball continuously in motion either by pass or drive the Heat couldn't clog the lanes as they are used to. It also caused really bad rotations and forced a lot of fouls. If the Spurs don't let the Heat key in on the passing lanes, this series will be tough for Miami to pull off.

Go Spurs Go!!!

Agree... the ball has to really move.

Also, did Patty Mills make the heat look like they were standing still?

It seems that Duncan, Parker and Manu are the players that seem to keep the ball from moving!

[will_spurs]

It seems that Duncan, Parker and Manu are the players that seem to keep the ball from moving!

This is normal. It's their job as veterans and top dogs to regulate the pace and call the plays. Once the ball movement starts, the advantage of playing in a system is that everybody knows what they are supposed to do: shoot if open, or pass the ball to one of the 2 options the player has. It's beautiful to watch but once the system is in place it's not rocket science and it doesn't really call on the decision making capabilities of the role players.

[Raven]

they probably saw that playing belinelli is retarded.

[MI21]

Fucking lol at people saying Wade isn't a Top 10 SG... the only people that can even begin to argue being superior SG to Wade are Jordan, Kobe, Jerry West and maybe, maybe Drexler and Iverson.

Wade was a fucking beast in his prime, tbh, people forget.

[Mr. Body]

Danny has keyed in on Green, to be sure. Some adjustment from Westbrook, who literally blows by people with athleticism, to Wade, who is much more crafty. In Game 1, Green and Ginobili, etc., were overrunning his pump fakes. Now they're staying at home, realizing he has to use tricks to get separation. It's working.

[diego]

49.8% FG% would be great for a guard, so I couldn't have been saying that was a bit below average.

And yes, Westbrook has a high TS% due to his inordinate amount of FTAs jacking up his scoring efficiency.

Anyway, Wade's overall TS% was right barely below 50% last year, and that's only a little below league average. He was hurt and played poorly early in the playoffs against teams Miami was owning anyway. If only Manu decided to shit the bed in games in early rounds instead of championship deciding games, his shitty performances would have meant nothing instead of everything.

How many horrible games did Wade have again? One mediocre one where at least he wasn't extremely detrimental to his team. Wade's worst Finals game was better than basically 4 of Manu's 7 games and arguably better than his 3rd best too. He got better as the postseason went on, Manu's stats drop the deeper we go.

right, its unfair to compare per minute numbers, but totally reasonable to compare a 36 year old to a 32 year old. wade wont even be in the league when hes manu's age. but since you are such a "here and now" guy, why dont you put the stats for just the 2014 finals:

manu: 15.3 ppg 3.3 reb 5.3 ast 1.7 stl .3 blk 2 TO .485/.375/1.00 .63 TS

wade: 18.3 ppg 4.7 reb 2.7 ast 1.3 stl 0 blk 4 TO .538/.25/.857 .609 TS

from where im looking, manu has wade badly beat in assists (near double) and turnovers (half), substantially better in steals, better in blocks and percentages.
wade has manu beat in points rebounds but not by much. do you want to explain how wade is better?

[spurastic]

Manu does so much more for the team than he is given credit by many of the so-call Spurs fans. Manu (along with other players) was willing to accept less pay for the betterment of the Team. If you compared what Wade gets paid vs Manu, would you still be wanting Wade? I haven't looked up the pay scale of the two players and don't want to, but I bet there is a big difference. Anyone know?

[travis2]

He is definitely one of the top 10 but there have been some fantastic PGs

Jordan
Drexler
Kobe
Jerry West
Earl Monroe
Reggie Miller
Wade
Gervin
Mitch Richmond
Allan Iverson

Gervin was never a PG. Always a SG/SF...

Jordan/Clyde/Kobe/Miller were also not PGs

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Fucking lol at people saying Wade isn't a Top 10 SG... the only people that can even begin to argue being superior SG to Wade are Jordan, Kobe, Jerry West and maybe, maybe Drexler and Iverson.

Wade was a fucking beast in his prime, tbh, people forget.

I agree with this list. I would just put AI over Wade, and Pistol Pete above those two. Wade would be 8th on my list.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top_10_shooting_guards_in_NBA_history#photo-title=&photo=

[DAF86]

Tremendous reply, full of great counter points, and not just a douchebag post at all.

A lot more insightful than the retarded comment you made.


You're a blind homer if you think Manu has been better than Dwayne Wade over his career.

Yeah, 'cause that's what you said. :rolleyes

[baseline bum]

Fucking lol at people saying Wade isn't a Top 10 SG... the only people that can even begin to argue being superior SG to Wade are Jordan, Kobe, Jerry West and maybe, maybe Drexler and Iverson.

Wade was a fucking beast in his prime, tbh, people forget.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/timberwolves/media/munn_iceman.jpg

[Kidd K]

right, its unfair to compare per minute numbers, but totally reasonable to compare a 36 year old to a 32 year old. wade wont even be in the league when hes manu's age. but since you are such a "here and now" guy, why dont you put the stats for just the 2014 finals:

manu: 15.3 ppg 3.3 reb 5.3 ast 1.7 stl .3 blk 2 TO .485/.375/1.00 .63 TS

wade: 18.3 ppg 4.7 reb 2.7 ast 1.3 stl 0 blk 4 TO .538/.25/.857 .609 TS

from where im looking, manu has wade badly beat in assists (near double) and turnovers (half), substantially better in steals, better in blocks and percentages.
wade has manu beat in points rebounds but not by much. do you want to explain how wade is better?

Of course it's reasonable. The debate is comparing who you'd rather have now. You can't take age and decline out of the equation when they are some of the biggest factors. If this was still 2005-2007 it'd be great to still have that Ginobili. Or healthy 2011 Ginobili.

As for how Wade's better, firstly the Finals alone isn't a big enough sample size (yet) as it's only been three games and Manu has played worse and worse each game so far. Sure Manu's APG are nice. . .too bad he got 2/3rds of them in one game and barely any in the last one, along with barely any points or rebounds, and occasional terrible D like when he did his best hologram impersonation on that Wade baseline spin.

Also, Manu actually has created more turnovers than that. If he throws a terrible pass that barely grazes another Spur's fingertips, they credit the guy who touched it last for the turnover (Duncan and Splitter are usually the unfortunate scapegoats in the stat column for Manu's failed gambles). That happens all the time with Manu because he's always taking risks with his passes. High risk, low reward.

And wtf? He has Wade beat "substantially" in steals and blocks? What? :lol He has only one more steal and one more block. That's the tiniest possible margin for having more. The exact opposite of a "substantial" difference. Wade also has Manu beat in FG%, so no he doesn't have Wade beat in all percentages. Higher FT% yes, but Wade's taken nearly twice as many, while Manu has nearly 50% more fouls while playing worse D anyway. Only slightly higher I eFG% and TS%. Literally one made basket of difference. Again, this is the opposite of "substantial", and three games is a small sample size especially when you consider Manu's play has been on a downtrend each game while Wade's been consistently producing.



haha no. Would you still hold this opinion if he wasn't gifted a title in 2006? This era of the superfriends also inflates his worth. To be fair, he has historically had a very high FG% for a guard. But no, he is not top 10 and certainly not top 5 of all time.

He already was a top SG of all time pre-James. I'm not counting the rings he's getting now as full rings. In fact I barely count them at all. Same reason Kobe is not a top 5 all timer just because he has 5 rings. The ones he got with Shaq barely count. What a guy has around him devalues his titles if he has more help.

If you believe Wade isn't a top 10 SG ever, please list me 10 better ones.



A lot more insightful than the retarded comment you made.


There's nothing worse than a worthless idiot who thinks he has great value and is actually contributing to a discussion. You're just another token Spur homer with bad basketball takes and a closed mind. You could disappear right now and not only would nobody notice, but the forum would be enhanced. Addition by subtraction.

[Shastafarian]

Havlicek, Maravich, David Thompson, Gervin, Earl Monroe, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Sam Jones <-- you could make a case wade should be mixed in there somewhere

Iverson, Kobe, Jordan, Jerry West, Drexler

[DAF86]

There's nothing worse than a worthless idiot who thinks he has great value and is actually contributing to a discussion. You're just another token Spur homer with bad basketball takes and a closed mind. You could disappear right now and not only would nobody notice, but the forum would be enhanced. Addition by subtraction.

And you're such a great poster that everyone will miss. That's why everyone is agreeing with you. :lol

Look, nobody is saying that Manu has been better than Wade over their respective careers and nobody is saying Manu is better than Wade now. We are just saying that your "We would have 8 rings right now with Wade instead of Manu or this current team would be better with Wade than Manu" is narrow-sighted and stupid. First of all, good luck with getting Wade to accept coming off the bench and allowing Green to succesful develop in the player he is now. Then you have to consider Wade's antique skillsets trying to fit the Spurs system. Dribble happy, one on one guy that can't shoot from 15 feet and isn't half as good a passer as Ginobili.

One more thing: Do you think Wade would be as productive as Manu is on such limited playing time? I don't.

[cd021]

Per 36 stats are going to favor a player playing 9 1/2 less minutes per game.

Let's talk stats though. Let's throw out the stats from the first two rounds since they barely matter. Neither of those teams were supposed to lose before the conference Finals. Not to mention we're talking about how they're playing now. This series and the last one are the most recent and most important.

Wade in ECF and Finals: 22 PPG. 4.4 RPG. 4 APG. 54.3% FG%

Manu in WCF and Finals: 15.2 PPG. 2.9 RPG. 4.2 APG. 49.4% FG%


Wade's production is also pretty consistent. Manu is up and down and all over the place. He is playing better now and has played better in the big games.

Also for the rest of the comment, we can go back and compare their previous years' playoff and regular stats too, but Wade dominates bigtime so there isn't much to talk about there.


Don't get me wrong, I think Manu has been playing well this postseason besides the occasional ghost game or devolution into a sloppy gambler. But it's ridiculous to claim he's better than Wade. Wade is a top 10 all time SG. Maybe top 5-8.

I get the flaw in per 36 but posting a comparison of their Conference & NBA Finals performances should come with the asterisk that Wade logged 35.1 mpg to Ginobili's 24.8.

its not like Wade has drastically outperformed Ginobili.

Wade in ECF and Finals: 22 PPG. 4.4 RPG.4 APG. 3.1 T.O. 54.3% FG% *(35.1 MPG)

Manu in WCF and Finals: 15.2 PPG. 2.9 RPG. 4.2 APG. 1.3 T.O 49.4% FG% *(24.8 MPG)


Wades value is primarily in is his efficiency scoring the ball, which is valuable of course. Ginobili's value is in both his play-making and bursts of scoring. He can take over games in multiple ways. He can pick teams apart with his passing or his creativity in finding opening to the rim.

The Spurs are 7 points better per 100 possessions when he on the court as opposed to when he sits. The Spurs thrive when he plays, regardless of who he plays with. The Heat have been a train wreck with Wade and no Lebron on the court. His 3pt shooting, or ability to create open looks from behind the arc helps make him a move difficult cover.

I'm not denying that Wade is towards the top of the all time SG list but at this point, Ginobili is probably better than Wade or at the very least more impactful. Whether he's knocking down 5 3's in a half or having 11 assists off the bench his "Ghost or Gambler" games have been fewer and further in between this year.

He ,actually, has 12 turnovers in his past 9 games to Wades 28. Ginobili is still averaging more assists in 10 fewer minutes. Even if he played comparable minutes, he'd turn the ball over only about 2.4 times per game his assists to turnover ratio.

2.6 to 1 compared to Wades 1.29 to 1

[cd021]

So you wouldn't rather have Wade than Ginobili if the pricetag was the same?

We would probably have 8 titles if we had Wade the last 3 years and this year. LeBron would still have 0 if he had Manu instead.

Our you just looking at production, talent or situations (i.e personality, team chemistry, coachablity, etc.) because there is no way in hell we'd be better off with Wade. As DAF86 pointed out Wade would never take coming off the bench for Green.

Deferring to a player who is the best in the world is easier than deferring to a player who has been consistently overlooked at his position (Parker) and Duncan, who is still probably our best player.

Duncan wouldn't be nearly as productive with Wade in place of Ginobili. Wade is 1/3 of the play maker and his lack of a 3pt shot kills floor spacing.

A Parker-Wade-Leonard-Splitter-Duncan lineup would have been a train wreck given Parker seldom shoots them, and Kawhi's streaky range. Our offense wouldn't be anywhere near as good. Probably in the 10-15 range.

Wades a bit of a diva and is infamous for arguing non calls while his assignment burns his team in transition. I'm not entirely sold that even four years younger, he is a better defender than Ginobili is.

The Spurs would have to spend more money to even accommodate Wade.

I'm probably over thinking your hypothetical but its not hard to poke holes into that statement.

[MI21]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/timberwolves/media/munn_iceman.jpg

Very disappointing that I forgot about Gervin :(

[Kidd K]

I get the flaw in per 36 but posting a comparison of their Conference & NBA Finals performances should come with the asterisk that Wade logged 35.1 mpg to Ginobili's 24.8.

its not like Wade has drastically outperformed Ginobili.

Wade in ECF and Finals: 22 PPG. 4.4 RPG.4 APG. 3.1 T.O. 54.3% FG% *(35.1 MPG)

Manu in WCF and Finals: 15.2 PPG. 2.9 RPG. 4.2 APG. 1.3 T.O 49.4% FG% *(24.8 MPG)


Wades value is primarily in is his efficiency scoring the ball, which is valuable of course. Ginobili's value is in both his play-making and bursts of scoring. He can take over games in multiple ways. He can pick teams apart with his passing or his creativity in finding opening to the rim.

The Spurs are 7 points better per 100 possessions when he on the court as opposed to when he sits. The Spurs thrive when he plays, regardless of who he plays with. The Heat have been a train wreck with Wade and no Lebron on the court. His 3pt shooting, or ability to create open looks from behind the arc helps make him a move difficult cover.

I'm not denying that Wade is towards the top of the all time SG list but at this point, Ginobili is probably better than Wade or at the very least more impactful. Whether he's knocking down 5 3's in a half or having 11 assists off the bench his "Ghost or Gambler" games have been fewer and further in between this year.

He ,actually, has 12 turnovers in his past 9 games to Wades 28. Ginobili is still averaging more assists in 10 fewer minutes. Even if he played comparable minutes, he'd turn the ball over only about 2.4 times per game his assists to turnover ratio.

2.6 to 1 compared to Wades 1.29 to 1

I don't see why there should be an asterisk. As if it's bad that Wade has more stamina to be able to help his team for 30% longer per game? You would only have to asterisk it if you were using Per 36 stats due to the massive minutes played difference favoring the player who actually put up less stats. You'd then be making it seem as if he produced more when he didn't. He just produced slightly more per minute, but played a lot less. Per 36 almost always favors the guy playing less time since they can go all out during their play. Kinda like how relief pitchers usually always have better ERAs and BA against stats than starters who pitch 2 1/2 times more innings per season.

Speaking of which, I kind of like that analogy. A pitcher that pitches 7 innings per game and puts up similar/better stats to one who rarely even hits the 5 inning per game mark is absolutely more of a help to his team even if the other has a slightly better ERA or BA against. Dunno if you're a baseball fan, but if you are I'm sure that makes perfect sense. Those guys that pitch 5 innings and have great ERAs, like Rich Harden, rarely have high win totals because they aren't in the game long enough to claim many.

Anyway, yes Manu has more assists. Their roles are different. Thing is, Manu, in his role, is a lot less consistent and more prone to going up in flames with a terrible game or stretches of back to back to back poor plays. I don't want the value of the consistency of a stable player to be understated. Imagine how many games you wish Manu was just average or even a little below average instead of a ghost or playing like dogshit last season. Game 6 for example. Wade's worst game of those Finals would've been greatly preferred over that trashy Manu game. Wade's worst game of the Finals last year was also better than 3-4 other Manu games those Finals, and that's my issue.

Manu's averages are decent for his minutes, and his assists are indeed good, but he is VERY hit or miss. I just don't like that out of a player who is given so many responsibilities. His assists went from 11 to 4 to 2. Great to average to poor for his role. Wade's scoring (his main role), went from 19 to 14 to 22. A bit above his average, a bit below his average, and noticeably above his average. Never too low yet dropped in a nice 22.

Last year's Finals, Manu had a mediocre game, then a very poor game, followed by another poor game, followed by a below average game, then one great game followed by a HORRENDOUS game, then a decent game to close it. So 4 below average to poor games, one great game, one slightly above average one, and one terrible game which we all remember since it was the biggest negative for us by far that night.

Wade started with an average Wade game, followed by a below average one where he at least still got 6 assists, then an average Wade game, followed by two great games, then an average one, and closed it out with another great game. So 3 great games, 3 average games, and one slightly below average one.

Wade is/has been better because he puts up more overall stats and does it consistently. Manu is a dice roll every night. You never know what's going to come up or when he'll crap out. And he's crapped out every year for years now. I like the guy but he has not been reliable ever since he hurt himself at the end of his great 2011 season.



Our you just looking at production, talent or situations (i.e personality, team chemistry, coachablity, etc.) because there is no way in hell we'd be better off with Wade. As DAF86 pointed out Wade would never take coming off the bench for Green.

Deferring to a player who is the best in the world is easier than deferring to a player who has been consistently overlooked at his position (Parker) and Duncan, who is still probably our best player.

Duncan wouldn't be nearly as productive with Wade in place of Ginobili. Wade is 1/3 of the play maker and his lack of a 3pt shot kills floor spacing.

A Parker-Wade-Leonard-Splitter-Duncan lineup would have been a train wreck given Parker seldom shoots them, and Kawhi's streaky range. Our offense wouldn't be anywhere near as good. Probably in the 10-15 range.

Wades a bit of a diva and is infamous for arguing non calls while his assignment burns his team in transition. I'm not entirely sold that even four years younger, he is a better defender than Ginobili is.

The Spurs would have to spend more money to even accommodate Wade.

I'm probably over thinking your hypothetical but its not hard to poke holes into that statement.

You're looking to deeply into it. I'm talking just basketball talent and production only, not night club debacles or press conference trolling. I would happily trade this Manu for 8 years ago Manu instead of current Wade. I wouldn't defend his shitty personsince I've pretty much gone on record saying he's a dbag and a poor leader.





And you're such a great poster that everyone will miss. That's why everyone is agreeing with you. :lol

Look, nobody is saying that Manu has been better than Wade over their respective careers and nobody is saying Manu is better than Wade now. We are just saying that your "We would have 8 rings right now with Wade instead of Manu or this current team would be better with Wade than Manu" is narrow-sighted and stupid. First of all, good luck with getting Wade to accept coming off the bench and allowing Green to succesful develop in the player he is now. Then you have to consider Wade's antique skillsets trying to fit the Spurs system. Dribble happy, one on one guy that can't shoot from 15 feet and isn't half as good a passer as Ginobili.

One more thing: Do you think Wade would be as productive as Manu is on such limited playing time? I don't.

Saying things that everyone agrees with doesn't make one a good poster. It just means you're pointing out the obvious since you're too scared to post stuff some people may not like. That also assumes most of the forum is logical, intelligent, and has good takes (since apparently the forum agreeing means good poster). Certainly not the case here. You have a very odd concept of what a good poster is.

Didn't even read the rest. We can try to have an actual discussion in another thread later if you don't try to kick things off with one line douchbaggery again. You obviously didn't want to actually discuss the topic or my post initially so no point in starting now.

[DAF86]

"Didn't even read the rest"

Why do people still use this? That and saying "I don't have any counter-argument" is the same shit. Like anyone would believe you didn't read the next 5 lines. :lol

It's better to just don't reply than making yourself look stupid by saying something no smart person could ever believe, tbh.

[Drom John]

Green isn't normally know for steals

Agree on Wade, but Green is normally known for steals. Green is already on the playoff leader board at #205 tied with Carlos Boozer, Mike Conley, Artis Gilmore, John Havlicek and Kevin Willis. More opportunities? No, (unless you're talking about the opportunity to guard Wade). Green is not on the leader board for games or minutes played.

[Skull-1]

"Didn't even read the rest"

Why do people still use this? That and saying "I don't have any counter-argument" is the same shit. Like anyone would believe you didn't read the next 5 lines. :lol

It's better to just don't reply than making yourself look stupid by saying something no smart person could ever believe, tbh.


How is this clown ^^^ bolded when Kidd K is grayed? That should be switched.

[DAF86]

How is this clown ^^^ bolded when Kidd K is grayed? That should be switched.

For the same reason you are grayed, tbh.

[adonis827]

The Spurs must have seen this video of Wyane Wae

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6awLLLgeYM

[DAF86]

:lol wanting Wade's crippled ass on this team.
:lol 8 rings
:lol Kidd K

[Kidd K]

:lol wanting Wade's crippled ass on this team.
:lol 8 rings
:lol Kidd K (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=33277)

Yeah, Manu's 7 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 3 fouls and 4 turnovers was a virtuoso performance right? :lmao

Wade doubled his rebounds and assists while ripping 4 steals to more than counter the extra few misses above normal FG% he had.

Don't act like broken down Manu who yet again declined in production for the 3rd game in a row did better. :lol

[DAF86]

Yeah, Manu's 7 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 3 fouls and 4 turnovers was a virtuoso performance right? :lmao

Wade doubled his rebounds and assists while ripping 4 steals to more than counter the extra few misses above normal FG% he had.

Don't act like broken down Manu who yet again declined in production for the 3rd game in a row did better. :lol

Manu can still get out of the way, Wade was our best defensive player tonight.

[Kidd K]

Manu can still get out of the way, Wade was our best defensive player tonight.

Yeah, Manu "gets out of the way" of Heat players with the ball with his matador defense.

[Capt Bringdown]

The Spurs must have seen this video of Wyane Wae

That's a devastating video.
Wade: "I got's the Herpes"

[Perry Mason]

Yeah, Manu's 7 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 3 fouls and 4 turnovers was a virtuoso performance right? :lmao

Wade doubled his rebounds and assists while ripping 4 steals to more than counter the extra few misses above normal FG% he had.

Don't act like broken down Manu who yet again declined in production for the 3rd game in a row did better. :lol

Manu led the team in +-. I think he was +26? Come on now. Manu did a ton of things to make the offense hum. TP too.

[Kidd K]

Manu led the team in +-. I think he was +26? Come on now. Manu did a ton of things to make the offense hum. TP too.

He can have the Matt Bonner award then.

I didn't say TP's been bad. I'm always defending him tbh, so I dunno why you're bringing him up. The debate is Wade vs Manu.

[TVI]

Yeah, Manu's 7 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 3 fouls and 4 turnovers was a virtuoso performance right? :lmao
Seriously? That's what you took away from the game?

[Kidd K]

Seriously? That's what you took away from the game?

I posted Manu's stats in reply to Wade's stats being posted in a Wade vs Manu thread.

I'm not sure what about this is confusing to you honestly. Putting all the data out there.

[DAF86]

So you wouldn't rather have Wade than Ginobili if the pricetag was the same?

:lmao

[Kidd K]

:lmao

:lol You're really making a bitch move post right after we won the title? Pathetic

[DAF86]

:lol You're really making a bitch move post right after we won the title? Pathetic

Own it son, own it.

[Kidd K]

Own it son, own it.

Wade's Finals stats against us are still better than Manu's against the Heat.

Manu had a nice game 5 here but he still also cost us a title last year with a garbage game 6 and 4 poor games 1-4. Nothing to "own".

Try enjoying the title for awhile before going back into bitch mode dude. Worse posters than you are even doing that much.

[DAF86]

Wade's Finals stats against us are still better than Manu's against the Heat.

Manu had a nice game 5 here but he still also cost us a title last year with a garbage game 6 and 4 poor games 1-4. Nothing to "own".

Try enjoying the title for awhile before going back into bitch mode dude. Worse posters than you are even doing that much.

smh.