[WC 14] GROUP B: Australia, Chile, Netherlands & Spain

[elemento]

Anything would be better than Fred. :lmao

Sad thing is that his backup (Jo) is probably the worst striker in the entire WC :lol

Sad to have Fred and Jo as Brazil's main strikers when Brazil had Careca, Ronaldo, Romário and Adriano in the past.

[Venti Quattro]

so this is the the 2014 lolitaly... lolspain :lol

Dibs on lolthpain for all my Spurstalk fantasy league team names

[lefty]

dos minutos


lol Heat

[Darth_Pelican]

:lol 0-2 with a -6 goal differential, that's the worst of all teams so far this WC

[lefty]

spain not attacking haha

[elemento]

...

[ElNono]

:lmao

[NASpurs]

Worst defending champion ever?

[lefty]

so if we lose 1-0 to South Korea, we will be betterthan Spain :lol

[Sportstudi]

"Adios Spana" :lmao

[Brunodf]

:rollinSpain

[lefty]

:lol dat Brazilian fan trolling SPain

[Venti Quattro]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2po6snr.gif
http://i46.tinypic.com/2zdq7tv.gif

[Baam]

Worst defending champion ever?

2002 France was just as bad.

[Kyle Orton]

What a pathetic showing

[lefty]

:lol Pathetico
:lol rmao
:lol Barcelol

[Baam]

Mourinho was right all along about Casillas tbh.

[Sportstudi]

2002 France was just as bad.

Same for Italy 2010.

[elemento]

2002 France was just as bad.

Zizou was hurt tbh.

[Venti Quattro]

Zizou was hurt tbh.

del Bosque is mentally-challenged so Spain has an exc... no not really :lmao :lmao :lmao Thpain

[elemento]

People absolutely hate Costa in Spain

Guys on marca.com are going nuts :lmao

[hater]

2002 France was just as bad.

LOLITALY

[sonic21]

same shit happened to france in 2002 after winning 2 competitions. Hard for the coach to change a winning team even though many of the players are done.

[dfens]

People absolutely hate Costa in Spain

Guys on marca.com are going nuts :lmao

they should hate del bosque. Given the players that spain posses you don't play england football with them. But Costa is such a perfect fall guy :lol they'll gonna tear him a new one :lol

[Sportstudi]

People absolutely hate Costa in Spain

Guys on marca.com are going nuts :lmao

:lmao

[ElNono]

People absolutely hate Costa in Spain

Guys on marca.com are going nuts :lmao

From there:

TIQUICACA

:lmao

[elemento]

:lmao

Got owned by "Indios con arco y flecha" as they called the Chileans on marca.com

https://38.media.tumblr.com/7ce974c716d94f31355053fee142b7e7/tumblr_n7doitMnvS1robnbko1_400.gif

[diego]

2 euros and a wc is anything but flukey. They may suck now but let's not overreact. They were super dominant and one of the GOAT footballing sides.

After watching this game it is clear to me why they are looking like shit. They are not playing tiki taka at all. They are playing long ball to costa and that is really one of the most idiotic coaching decisions I've ever seen given their players. Their midfield is empty many times and they are going much more to the wing. That first half played against netherlands was tikitaka and they looked very nice in it (defense bit shaky, but that's expected). Obviously, the team can't play the wing/long ball shit and this leads to sterile attacks and an exposed defense.

Del bosque really fucked them deep and hard in the ass with his stubborness of playing a system that's got nothing to do with the skills of the team. People will say it's because tikitaka is done but if you really look at the bad football they played (2nd half vs NED, both halves vs CHL) you'd see that was not tiki taka at all. Got to say that I'm pleased that such a dangerous lot of players is out but as a football fan I feel cheated by bosques idiocy.

A goat team that won a WC beating honduras, chile, portugal , Paraguay, Germany and holland with 8 goals for (how many of which came from "tiki taka" ? I'm sure at least half were penalties, corners and set pieces). The only good team they beat was Germany, whose stars were? Exactly.
I'll give them that they're good, not goat of abythibg though. The press invented this tiki taka bullshit, do you think this is the first team that plays a possession style?

[dfens]

same shit happened to france in 2002 after winning 2 competitions. Hard for the coach to change a winning team even though many of the players are done.

good point there with the change of tactics, but spain is not done because players are done/old.
Ramos/silva/bisquits/martinez/alba/albiol/pique/fabregas/pedro are from the same team that raped euros and wcs. They are all under 27 ffs. That's not done.
Even xavi at 33 and iniesta at 30 looked fit. Now compare that to france's very old team. Not the same imo.

Del bosque fucked up horribly by completely by trying to change an excellent system, well suited for their players. I'd put this debacle on him 70%. The team lost faith pretty quick in this idiocy and thus played with zero heart. I find this as the most reasonable explanation.

[Venti Quattro]

479344592584966144
:lmao :lmao :lmao

[NASpurs]

479344592584966144
:lmao :lmao :lmao

Bastard, I posted that in the lol Spain thread. :lol

[dfens]

A goat team that won a WC beating honduras, chile, portugal , Paraguay, Germany and holland with 8 goals for (how many of which came from "tiki taka" ? I'm sure at least half were penalties, corners and set pieces). The only good team they beat was Germany, whose stars were? Exactly.
I'll give them that they're good, not goat of abythibg though. The press invented this tiki taka bullshit, do you think this is the first team that plays a possession style?

tiki taka isn't JUST possesion football. It's quick passes that destabilize a defense and a defense based on high pressing and ball retention.
besides honduras those were all good(chl, paraguay, swiss) or great teams(ger, hol, portugal) so that's not an easy run. And they won by playing tiki taka, not simple possession football. They pressed like mad and axphyxiated the other teams. That portugal team was excellent. That same "who" german team raped a very nice argentina team and destroyed england. Paraguay won its group. The netherlands went through brazil and uruguay. That's a decent run by any defnition.

you are overreacting

[DAF86]

tiki taka isn't JUST possesion football. It's quick passes that destabilize a defense and a defense based on high pressing and ball retention.
besides honduras those were all good(chl, paraguay, swiss) or great teams(ger, hol, portugal) so that's not an easy run. And they won by playing tiki taka, not simple possession football. They pressed like mad and axphyxiated the other teams. That portugal team was excellent. That same "who" german team raped a very nice argentina team and destroyed england. Paraguay won its group. The netherlands went through brazil and uruguay. That's a decent run by any defnition.

you are overreacting

At Portugal being a great team. :lmao

[dfens]

At Portugal being a great team. :lmao

i beg to differ. They played very decent football in 2010. I'd easily argue better than argentina. Only spain, germany, netherlands and uruguay played better at that tournament.

[dfens]

i beg to differ. They played very decent football in 2010. I'd easily argue better than argentina. Only spain, germany, netherlands and uruguay played better at that tournament.

come to think of it uruguay is debatable.

[IronMaxipad]

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/l/t1.0-9/10353043_654177547991645_8658474696342440321_n.jpg

edit: damn you NASpurs

[Sportstudi]

Bravo going to Barca for 12 million :lol

[Venti Quattro]

479335790666076161

[NASpurs]

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/l/t1.0-9/10353043_654177547991645_8658474696342440321_n.jpg

edit: damn you NASpurs

:lol stole your source

[IronMaxipad]

:lol stole your source

Do you have an account yet or still a lurker?

[NASpurs]

Do you have an account yet or still a lurker?

Started an account like three years ago, didn't get the confirmation email until six months later. :lol I'm not active though. Still mostly lurk.

[IronMaxipad]

Started an account like three years ago, didn't get the confirmation email until six months later. :lol I'm not active though. Still mostly lurk.

:lol. I took like a year before my account was activated tbh. I only post in offtopic though since i don't really game that much anymore.

[diego]

tiki taka isn't JUST possesion football. It's quick passes that destabilize a defense and a defense based on high pressing and ball retention.
besides honduras those were all good(chl, paraguay, swiss) or great teams(ger, hol, portugal) so that's not an easy run. And they won by playing tiki taka, not simple possession football. They pressed like mad and axphyxiated the other teams. That portugal team was excellent. That same "who" german team raped a very nice argentina team and destroyed england. Paraguay won its group. The netherlands went through brazil and uruguay. That's a decent run by any defnition.

you are overreacting

The netherlands went trhough a shit Brasil that beat itself and a thin uruguayo team that got hot at thw right time big whoop. Argentina hasnt had any defenderse for nearly a decade, wgaf Germán y beat them. Portugal :lol Paraguay and swiss who they post to :lol lowest scoring wc champ ever fluked out on a easy path, the only big game they won was with a puyol header on a corner oooohh tiki taka give me a fucking break

[NASpurs]

:lol. I took like a year before my account was activated tbh. I only post in offtopic though since i don't really game that much anymore.

Same here. I have the off-topic section bookmarked and rarely go to the other side. Those faggots were talking about having their women stick shit up their ass earlier. Apparently I'm closed minded and thought that fucking shit was gay. I'm not an "enlightened". :cry

[urunobili]

Chile and Holland out of this one
With a game yet to be played...

[DAF86]

i beg to differ. They played very decent football in 2010. I'd easily argue better than argentina. Only spain, germany, netherlands and uruguay played better at that tournament.

The fuck are you talking about? Portugal won just 1 game, that being North Korea, one of the worst teams to be a part of the WC in recent memory.

[IronMaxipad]

Same here. I have the off-topic section bookmarked and rarely go to the other side. Those faggots were talking about having their women stick shit up their ass earlier. Apparently I'm closed minded and thought that fucking shit was gay. I'm not an "enlightened". :cry
Are you talking about this thread?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=839714

dafuq.. :lol:lmao


My gf sometimes uses her middlefinger to dig out poop lol. When I see her without a fake nail on her middlefinger, I know what she did and what she wants from me. It's sexy

There are a lot of techniques to clean yourself anyway.

:wow:oops

[diego]

Not to mention a high press exists since at least the 70s

[NASpurs]

Are you talking about this thread?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=839714

dafuq.. :lol:lmao



:wow:oops

Yeah that's it. :lol And it's funny how they tell people they're homophobes for not wanting to stick things up your ass. Some guy says that's where shit comes out from and they tell him to grow up. I fucking hate that forum sometimes, bunch of elitist pricks.

[dfens]

The netherlands went trhough a shit Brasil that beat itself and a thin uruguayo team that got hot at thw right time big whoop. Argentina hasnt had any defenderse for nearly a decade, wgaf Germán y beat them. Portugal :lol Paraguay and swiss who they post to :lol lowest scoring wc champ ever fluked out on a easy path, the only big game they won was with a puyol header on a corner oooohh tiki taka give me a fucking break

so what would of been a hard path? play against that shit brasil? play against no defense argentina? play against ghana? usa:lol? england:lol? mexico:lol? south korea:lol?

Arguably they had almost the hardest possible path. Here's why.
The teams that lost in the 1/8 are: south korea, usa, slovakia, chile, mexico, england, japan and portugal. Out of these portugal was (almost easily) the best team.
The teams that lost in the 1/4 are: paraguay, argentina, brazil, ghana. I might say that brazil looked stronger but not by much.
the teams that lost in the 1/2 are: germany, uruguay. Clearly they beat the best team.
Netherlands in the finals.

So that's the best possible 1/8 opponent, the second best 1/4 opponent, the best SF opponent and NED no2 elo/fifa rankings in the finals.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT AN EASY PATH?

the lowest scoring champ because all the other teams were dominated and thus parked the bus to prevent conceding. Why not mention of the best defenses of all time helped by tiki-takanacio.
@the only big game they won was with a puyol header on a corner so the finals is not a big game??? Not to mention that vs germany they outclassed them and forced löw to publicly declare they were beaten by a better team.


cmon son if you want to debate at least come with something reasonable, this is garbage.

[dfens]

Not to mention a high press exists since at least the 70s

Yes, I know about it, but it wasn't used so agressively and cohesively partly because it was rarely used in a combination with a ruthless possession game created to starve the adversary. Also, you can't compare the 70s with the 00s as defenses are completely different and thus pressing is completely different. I can't believe I'm arguing that tiki-taka is a unique brand of football. Might as well say that the ball is round since the 19th century.

[DAF86]

so what would of been a hard path? play against that shit brasil? play against no defense argentina? play against ghana? usa:lol? england:lol? mexico:lol? south korea:lol?

Arguably they had almost the hardest possible path. Here's why.
The teams that lost in the 1/8 are: south korea, usa, slovakia, chile, mexico, england, japan and portugal. Out of these portugal was (almost easily) the best team.
The teams that lost in the 1/4 are: paraguay, argentina, brazil, ghana. I might say that brazil looked stronger but not by much.
the teams that lost in the 1/2 are: germany, uruguay. Clearly they beat the best team.
Netherlands in the finals.

So that's the best possible 1/8 opponent, the second best 1/4 opponent, the best SF opponent and NED no2 elo/fifa rankings in the finals.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT AN EASY PATH?

the lowest scoring champ because all the other teams were dominated and thus parked the bus to prevent conceding. Why not mention of the best defenses of all time helped by tiki-takanacio.
@the only big game they won was with a puyol header on a corner so the finals is not a big game??? Not to mention that vs germany they outclassed them and forced löw to publicly declare they were beaten by a better team.


cmon son if you want to debate at least come with something reasonable, this is garbage.

Dude, you're talking bullshit after another. I already proved that Portugal was a mediocre team, Chile was clearly better than them, same with England, in fact no team that lost in the 1/8 stage was clearly worst than Portugal.

And lol at Paraguay being better than Argentina.

[dfens]

The fuck are you talking about? Portugal won just 1 game, that being North Korea, one of the worst teams to be a part of the WC in recent memory.

they also got draws with brazil and a strong ivory coast(prime drogba, kalou, keita, toure, gervinho) in what everybody dubbed the group of death. Not bad by any means.

These are the teams that qualified in the knock out stage in 2010 other than portugal. Bold means clearly better than portugal. Italic means arguably on the same level, normal is clearly worse.
uruguay, south korea, usa, ghana, netherlands, slovakia, brasil, chile, argentina, mexico, germany, england, paraguay, japan, spain
with uruguay being better(not clearly) because they were on a roll.
So you can argue that portugal was the in the 5-7 best teams at the tournament. That's a great team imo.

[dfens]

Dude, you're talking bullshit after another. I already proved that Portugal was a mediocre team, Chile was clearly better than them, same with England, in fact no team that lost in the 1/8 stage was clearly worst than Portugal.

And lol at Paraguay being better than Argentina.

I don't see any proof.

England :lol that came second in a group with algeria slovenia and usa and got curbstomped by the germans. Are you nuts?
Chile were a bad match for spain, against a different good team they suffered badly. Portugal would of gave netherlands a run for their money. It doesn't matter as spain beat both teams.
Japan/sout korea. really? I mean REALLY?
slovakia that drawed with new zealand, got beaten clearly by paraguay and beat lolitaly? For real?
usa :lol ?
I'll concede mexico on a GREAT day were about the same as portugal on a normal day.

stop being sour. Paraguay could defend, argentina could not, and it matters, as we can see from the qualification group for 2010 wc where they had 5 more points than argentia and the head to head results were 1-1 and a 1-0 for paraguay. Reality check son.

[DAF86]

they also got draws with brazil and a strong ivory coast(prime drogba, kalou, keita, toure, gervinho) in what everybody dubbed the group of death. Not bad by any means.

These are the teams that qualified in the knock out stage in 2010 other than portugal. Bold means clearly better than portugal. Italic means arguably on the same level, normal is clearly worse.
uruguay, south korea, usa, ghana, netherlands, slovakia, brasil, chile, argentina, mexico, germany, england, paraguay, japan, spain
with uruguay being better(not clearly) because they were on a roll.
So you can argue that portugal was the in the 5-7 best teams at the tournament. That's a great team imo.

I quoted you because you said Portugal was a "great team", nothing that you say there screams "great" to me.

[Franklin]

Spain = S-Pain, tbh :lmao

[DAF86]

I don't see any proof.

England :lol that came second in a group with algeria slovenia and usa and got curbstomped by the germans. Are you nuts?
Chile were a bad match for spain, against a different good team they suffered badly. Portugal would of gave netherlands a run for their money. It doesn't matter as spain beat both teams.
Japan/sout korea. really? I mean REALLY?
slovakia that drawed with new zealand, got beaten clearly by paraguay and beat lolitaly? For real?
usa :lol ?
I'll concede mexico on a GREAT day were about the same as portugal on a normal day.

stop being sour. Paraguay could defend, argentina could not, and it matters, as we can see from the qualification group for 2010 wc where they had 5 more points than argentia and the head to head results were 1-1 and a 1-0 for paraguay. Reality check son.

England got fucked against Germany. If they call that clear goal who knows what would happen. Dude, you said Portugal was a great team, they weren't. Just accept it.

[dfens]

England got fucked against Germany. If they call that clear goal who knows what would happen. Dude, you said Portugal was a great team, they weren't. Just accept it.

you can only be great compared to your competition. I did not say an "all-time-great". A team ranked 5-7 team in the world is a great team, isn't it? Sure, it wasn't netherlands level, but it played some great football.

And what's this with england? Don't you remember the shameful way they qualified from the group, that they played NOTHING in the easiest imaginable group in the last 20 years? That tactically they played some of the most horrendous offense? That wasn't a team, it was a collection of players. If you can't win a group with algeria/usa/slovenia you can't pretend you are a top 10 side. It doesn't matter that you get fucked on a single call. They would of still lost the game vs germany, it was plain obvious the germans were the superior side. One side was playing football and the other was just kicking it upfront. Even the arrogant and delusional english media said it.

[it's me]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqcHi2lIQAEiolE.jpg:large

[diego]

so what would of been a hard path? play against that shit brasil? play against no defense argentina? play against ghana? usa:lol? england:lol? mexico:lol? south korea:lol?

Arguably they had almost the hardest possible path. Here's why.
The teams that lost in the 1/8 are: south korea, usa, slovakia, chile, mexico, england, japan and portugal. Out of these portugal was (almost easily) the best team.
The teams that lost in the 1/4 are: paraguay, argentina, brazil, ghana. I might say that brazil looked stronger but not by much.
the teams that lost in the 1/2 are: germany, uruguay. Clearly they beat the best team.
Netherlands in the finals.

So that's the best possible 1/8 opponent, the second best 1/4 opponent, the best SF opponent and NED no2 elo/fifa rankings in the finals.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT AN EASY PATH?

the lowest scoring champ because all the other teams were dominated and thus parked the bus to prevent conceding. Why not mention of the best defenses of all time helped by tiki-takanacio.
@the only big game they won was with a puyol header on a corner so the finals is not a big game??? Not to mention that vs germany they outclassed them and forced löw to publicly declare they were beaten by a better team.


cmon son if you want to debate at least come with something reasonable, this is garbage.

Even if I concede that the had the hardest possible path (they didn't, outside of Germany they played nothing but shit), that doesn't make them a goat team and it doesn't make tiki taka some kind of revolutionary concept. They were lucky to win the WC, getting out of their group thanks to a huge blunder by the chile goalie, bad Reffing vs paraguay, and a pathetic holland team in the final. If you read any match reviews from the time, be it Spanish or English press all of it was how disappointing spain was especially compared to the prior euros; after they won the revisionists like you got started. Tough luck they got shit on and now you can't twist it back. Blaming Costa when they were barely able to muster 5 chances in two games is a joke. And now you are twisting it into them having a great defense! What offensive power houses did they shut down? Gmafb. They won and I can't discredit that, in 2010 they seized their opportunity, but youll never convince me they are a goat team.

[Infinite_limit]

I also feel Spain's run is being currently overrated. I find Brazil 1994-2002 more impressive

2 x Titles
3 x Final

A complete team. No gimmicky offense

[dfens]

Even if I concede that the had the hardest possible path (they didn't, outside of Germany they played nothing but shit), that doesn't make them a goat team and it doesn't make tiki taka some kind of revolutionary concept.

my friend, at each round they got the best possible team. Let's be reasonable, you win a world cup by beating your opposition. Sure there weren't 70's level of amazing teams as opponents but they still beat the best/2nd best team each round thus it was a hard path.

Again, all the ingredients were there (high pressing (old germany), short passing with bursts(france), a great ball retention game(brazil), interchanging of player roles (dutch total football)) but no team in history choked other teams out of football by using possession as a defensive measure.




They were lucky to win the WC, getting out of their group thanks to a huge blunder by the chile goalie, bad Reffing vs paraguay, and a pathetic holland team in the final. If you read any match reviews from the time, be it Spanish or English press all of it was how disappointing spain was especially compared to the prior euros; after they won the revisionists like you got started.
uncalled for.
All champions need a bit of luck. Even brasil 70s was lucky italy was dog tired after it's SF with germany.
If you remeber the 2010 wc people were dissapponited with spain not scoring more but a minority saw the beauty of their possession game as a prevention/defensive game. They controlled matches with that, that's why I said they were a great defensive side, not because they were great at defending (they were good, not great) but because you didn't get the ball to create chances against them. Ironically, tiki-taka is truly unique from a defensive standpoint, thus tiki-takanacio. It's pretty logical if you look at it this way and if the purpose is to win games it's an excellent system if you have the required players.



Tough luck they got shit on and now you can't twist it back. Blaming Costa when they were barely able to muster 5 chances in two games is a joke. And now you are twisting it into them having a great defense! What offensive power houses did they shut down? Gmafb. They won and I can't discredit that, in 2010 they seized their opportunity, but youll never convince me they are a goat team.

I don't want to twist anything. At this wc they sucked donkey dick and lolspain :lol.
i don't blaim costa, I blaim del bosque for fucking up tactics completely and not utilizing the game style that best fitted the players, in which they also had alot of experience. I actually find it unfair to blaim costa because his game is incompatible with what spain should have played. All the players looked lost out there and the coach is the logical answer for pointing fingers.

On the other hand they had a tremendous team in '10 that played a subtle brand of football which imo people really didn't understand.
germany (4 vs eng, 4 vs arg, 4 vs aus) , netherlands (3 vs uru, 2 vs brazil, 3 vs chile, won all games till final) , portugal (good games vs bra, vs ivory, rape vs north korea) were all good/very good attacking sides, scored none against spain.
euro, wc, euro is a goat side no matter how much you might dislike them.

[dfens]

I also feel Spain's run is being currently overrated. I find Brazil 1994-2002 more impressive

2 x Titles
3 x Final

A complete team. No gimmicky offense

wat?
two different teams as that 94 team and 2002 team had nothing in common in playstyle let alone team composition (ronaldo, carlos didn't play in 94, as far as I remember cafu was the only guy to play at all 3). Also, add copa americas.

That being said, great teams, I enjoyed watching those sides.

[velik_m]

Yeah, because how dare mighty European teams having problems against non European teams, right? :lol

You really think that was the netherlands playing at 100%? You did watch them play at any time before this game?

[diego]

my friend, at each round they got the best possible team. Let's be reasonable, you win a world cup by beating your opposition. Sure there weren't 70's level of amazing teams as opponents but they still beat the best/2nd best team each round thus it was a hard path.

Again, all the ingredients were there (high pressing (old germany), short passing with bursts(france), a great ball retention game(brazil), interchanging of player roles (dutch total football)) but no team in history choked other teams out of football by using possession as a defensive measure.



uncalled for.
All champions need a bit of luck. Even brasil 70s was lucky italy was dog tired after it's SF with germany.
If you remeber the 2010 wc people were dissapponited with spain not scoring more but a minority saw the beauty of their possession game as a prevention/defensive game. They controlled matches with that, that's why I said they were a great defensive side, not because they were great at defending (they were good, not great) but because you didn't get the ball to create chances against them. Ironically, tiki-taka is truly unique from a defensive standpoint, thus tiki-takanacio. It's pretty logical if you look at it this way and if the purpose is to win games it's an excellent system if you have the required players.



I don't want to twist anything. At this wc they sucked donkey dick and lolspain :lol.
i don't blaim costa, I blaim del bosque for fucking up tactics completely and not utilizing the game style that best fitted the players, in which they also had alot of experience. I actually find it unfair to blaim costa because his game is incompatible with what spain should have played. All the players looked lost out there and the coach is the logical answer for pointing fingers.

On the other hand they had a tremendous team in '10 that played a subtle brand of football which imo people really didn't understand.
germany (4 vs eng, 4 vs arg, 4 vs aus) , netherlands (3 vs uru, 2 vs brazil, 3 vs chile, won all games till final) , portugal (good games vs bra, vs ivory, rape vs north korea) were all good/very good attacking sides, scored none against spain.
euro, wc, euro is a goat side no matter how much you might dislike them.

My whole point is that hardest path /= historically tough path. I can accept that 2010 Spain played best, but let me put it this way- are 2010 Brazil, germany, Italy, Argentina, holland, France top 3 in their respective histories? The answer is a resounding no.

Luck always plays a part, but 2010 Spain would have had a better argument for goat status if they had dominated their relatively weak opposition. But they didn't. (For ex maradona's Argentina teams were supremely lucky but they got past really great teams and that made them memorable, though not goat TEAMS imo).

Some of your attack numbers are wrong. Holland didn't play chile in 2010, that was Brazil. The 2 goals they scored vs Brazil, one was a pathetic unforced own goal, they got to Brazil's goal at most 4 times in the entire match. Look back at Hollands campaign and you will see they also were very fortunate, Japan for example gave them fits. As for Germany scoring 4 vs all those teams, those are all flawed teams and in Argentina and England's case once you are down in knock out you have to go out and look for the tie leaving space behind, like atletico this past UCL final or barca a year before. Thats not indicative of their real offensive weight. They went scoreless vs Serbia and had one goal vs Ghana (both games qualification still in doubt); are Serbia and Ghana great, all time great defensive sides too? The point remains, 2010 Germany didn't have a great attack, neither did Portugal, holland, or Paraguay.

I'm ready to agree to disagree. I can respect this Spain team for getting over their history of shitting the bed every major competition but that doesn't put them with Cruyff holland or beckenbauer Germany or the Brazil super teams or even maradonas Argentina teams which were weaker overall but fun to watch. Tiki takanacio as you call it is imo terrible for the sport, at least catenaccio teams try to counter attack which is exciting. Lateral passes with no forwards is boring as fuck. :toast

[lefty]

diego dropping truth bombs IMO


Game, set and match

[dfens]

My whole point is that hardest path /= historically tough path. I can accept that 2010 Spain played best, but let me put it this way- are 2010 Brazil, germany, Italy, Argentina, holland, France top 3 in their respective histories? The answer is a resounding no.

Luck always plays a part, but 2010 Spain would have had a better argument for goat status if they had dominated their relatively weak opposition. But they didn't. (For ex maradona's Argentina teams were supremely lucky but they got past really great teams and that made them memorable, though not goat TEAMS imo).

I agree that they didn't go against GOAT teams, but usually there is no more than 1, max 2, goat team per tournament and this is getting increasingly rare due to modern marking making life very difficult even for stacked teams. These little shitty ankle taps you see so much today led to tikitakanacio (and widespread diving) in the first place imo because a technical side these days is at a disadvantage with such shit being permitted. You either play physical or you need to play fast and keep the ball. You rarely see waltzing in midfield nowadays. Compare 10s game to the 90s and you'll be shocked at the differences in marking and the tactical problems that it bring for offenses.

I disagree on not dominating. Tikitakanacio sucks for the sport (unless you bet:lol where it was GREAT) but is a tremendous system when played right which makes 1-0 look like 3-0s. In germany when we went 0-1 in 2010 we knew there was no chance in hell of coming back.



Some of your attack numbers are wrong. Holland didn't play chile in 2010, that was Brazil. The 2 goals they scored vs Brazil, one was a pathetic unforced own goal, they got to Brazil's goal at most 4 times in the entire match. Look back at Hollands campaign and you will see they also were very fortunate, Japan for example gave them fits. As for Germany scoring 4 vs all those teams, those are all flawed teams and in Argentina and England's case once you are down in knock out you have to go out and look for the tie leaving space behind, like atletico this past UCL final or barca a year before. Thats not indicative of their real offensive weight. They went scoreless vs Serbia and had one goal vs Ghana (both games qualification still in doubt); are Serbia and Ghana great, all time great defensive sides too? The point remains, 2010 Germany didn't have a great attack, neither did Portugal, holland, or Paraguay.
bold = dfens :lol, brainfart
Again, I always judge given the competition, when I say great I mean compared to the other teams at the tournament not all time great.
I didn't say paraguay had a great attack. The rest were great/good compared to competition, not all-time-great.

Each champion won with some doubts. 2002 brasil had some really tough tight matches. 1998 france barely got by croatia. 1994 brasil had some tough games too. 1990 we won with alot of luck. 1986 is a miracle run by a goat player. And so on. If you imply it was a bad era it was so due to a leveling of the playing field imo. Japan/south korea were stingy teams that forced others to consume alot of energy. england had a super stacked team but that wasn't enough against the behemots of algeria/slovenia/usa. Since the 1990s the marking has changed alot and many non-eu, non-sa teams have evolved, look at the wc quarters and you'll see much more variety than 20 years ago.



I'm ready to agree to disagree. I can respect this Spain team for getting over their history of shitting the bed every major competition but that doesn't put them with Cruyff holland or beckenbauer Germany or the Brazil super teams or even maradonas Argentina teams which were weaker overall but fun to watch. Tiki takanacio as you call it is imo terrible for the sport, at least catenaccio teams try to counter attack which is exciting. Lateral passes with no forwards is boring as fuck. :toast

from a "fun to watch, great for the sport" perspective you are totally right. But from a getting the job done perspective the 00s spain team was a monster, much like the 00s spurs, no glamor just sucking the life out of the game. Somebody best described tikitakanacio as "parking the bus and putting the ball under the bus". Yes, it sucked to watch for the casual fan and the free flowing game fan but from a tactical standpoint it was some cold blooded calculated shit that some fans like me adored (even from an aesthetic pov)

Regarding their GOAT status. Look at this run of matches in knock out stages:
2008: 0-0 vs italy (won penaldos), 3-0 vs russia (who beat a good netherlands side to get there), 1-0 germany
2010: 1-0 portugal, 1-0 paraguay, 1-0 germany, 1-0 netherlands
2012: 2-0 france, 0-0 portugal(won penaldos), 4-0 italy (unlucky italians with the injuries )
0 goals received in 10 knock out games, that's unheard of. while winning. That's domination, their luck was in no way greater or lesser then the luck of goat teams. Also the first team to win outside europe.

Cruyff netherlands were the ultimate arrogant losers imo. Ultra talented but couldn't get the job done because they weren't 100% mentally there. They were up and down because of of this and lost when it matterd most. IMO you can't be a GOAT team when you can't win a trophy. At least win a euro if not a wc.
The germany and brazil teams are uncontested GOATs.

great post :toast

[Venti Quattro]

480327371988664320
480327640977788928

[Infinite_limit]

480327371988664320
480327640977788928
If you aren't good enough for Spain, why would Real keep him?

[Venti Quattro]

If you aren't good enough for Spain, why would Real keep him?

Because tactically he was a redundancy. Sergio could do what he's doing plus he isn't slow. But apparently the Spanish players hate the Madridistas. Him, Casillas and Arbeloa

[Infinite_limit]

Because tactically he was a redundancy. Sergio could do what he's doing plus he isn't slow. But apparently the Spanish players hate the Madridistas. Him, Casillas and Arbeloa
All 3 play for Real. Seems like bitterness to me

[Venti Quattro]

All 3 play for Real. Seems like bitterness to me

It's not like Madrid players are known for an exemplary attitude record.

[Infinite_limit]

Who do you guys like in Netherlands vs Chile?



Winner faces Mexico/Croatia [and then Italy]

2nd place faces Brazil

[Infinite_limit]

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac255/kegstermd/gROUPb_zps97646ceb.jpg


REMAINING GAMES
Chile vs Netherlands
Australia vs Spain

[Venti Quattro]

:lmao :lmao Spain is imploding and Fagregas is showing his Chelsea blue
480420178191478784
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Yeah, good move not to re-sign this ****

[lefty]

:lmao From Spain's recent training session

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_140326654768210&key=9aafeaa0dc973144cc8995b68291f36e&libId=5aa046b2-e955-45f5-aec4-ce30c4b590ef&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goallegacy.net%2Ft540p432-spain-nt-discussion&v=1&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&type=U&out=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xfp1%2Ft1.0-9%2Fp261x260%2F10426856_781709945194605_8394475319 008901432_n.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goallegacy.net%2Ff20-world-cup-2014-discussion&title=Spain%20NT%20discussion%20-%20Page%2025&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xfp1%2Ft1.0-9%2Fp261x260%2F10426856_781709945194605_8394475319 008901432_n.jpg

[Franklin]

FAGregas :lol

[Infinite_limit]

Netherlands vs Chile

What is with all the whistling?

[Jodelo]

Group decided so both matches do not mean much. Switching channels all the time...

[Infinite_limit]

Group decided so both matches do not mean much. Switching channels all the time...
Winner between Netherlands / Chile is important

2nd Place:
1st Round vs Brazil
2nd Round vs Colombia or Italy/Uruguay

1st Place:
1st Round vs Croatia/Mexico
2nd Round vs Costa Rica or Ivory Coast/Greece

[diego]

Netherlands vs Chile

What is with all the whistling?

Inexperienced ref + flopping dutch ... I hope the Chileans start flopping too

[Venti Quattro]

David Villa just scored for Spain. Maybe if they used him a little bit earlier... :lmao :lmao :lmao

[it's me]

LOL Villa shitting on Costa.

[NASpurs]

David Villa just scored for Spain. Maybe if they used him a little bit earlier... :lmao :lmao :lmao

And Thanti Cathorla almost thcored :cry

[velik_m]

Inexperienced ref + flopping dutch ... I hope the Chileans start flopping too

Chile flopping like their lifes depend on it TBH.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Villa's goal was a beauty:

https://vine.co/v/MtZlP5JnAY0

[NASpurs]

Villa's goal was a beauty:

https://vine.co/v/MtZlP5JnAY0


:lol Costa
:lol fake Spaniard
:lol being shown off by a tosb

[velik_m]

Villa's goal was a beauty:

https://vine.co/v/MtZlP5JnAY0

This group had pretty much all the best goals of the tournament so far.

[lefty]

Villa scored a Madjer

[NASpurs]

These games are killing me zzzz

[Venti Quattro]

These games are killing me zzzz
No-bearing games are the worst... why don't you just settle those with toss-coins. We could have been watching the beans and Croats kill each other on the pitch.

[Infinite_limit]

Chile being a bit exposed by a tall & physical European team

[diego]

Blinds 12th foul from behind, finally gets a yellow smh

[diego]

Tall and physical dutch team that has been flopping from the first minute chile has dominated this game without their best player

[Venti Quattro]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao Diego Costa :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Infinite_limit]

*Updating Playoff Scenarios*

[NASpurs]

:lol ethpana

[Infinite_limit]

Chile is fucked. Brazil and then Italy or Uruguay

[Infinite_limit]

Orange 2-0

What a dominating run they are currently on. Only Argentina, Belgium & Germany (if they finish 2nd) can stop them from the Final

[velik_m]

Tall and physical dutch team that has been flopping from the first minute chile has dominated this game without their best player

:lol someone is salty

[velik_m]

Orange 2-0

What a dominating run they are currently on. Only Argentina & Germany (if they finish 2nd) can stop them from the Final

Yeah - no, Oranje will choke.

[dfens]

Orange 2-0

What a dominating run they are currently on. Only Argentina, Belgium & Germany (if they finish 2nd) can stop them from the Final

I've seen some sorry ass takes but this one is up there with the best tbh. :lmao:lmao

[lefty]

Germany will choke, imo


YOU WILL SEE

LETS WAIT AND SEE

[diego]

:lol someone is salty
Chile played better today and holland only played with their goal difference and a shitty ref.

Re: caring about a major tournament you being an arsenal / Slovenia fan wouldn't know anything about it

[The Gemini Method]

They are playing well--but they had the Socceroos and a head case La Roja Furia in the group stage. Chile were the only side that showed up, really.

[Infinite_limit]

I've seen some sorry ass takes but this one is up there with the best tbh. :lmao:lmao
Ya, no one exists on that side of the bracket

[velik_m]

Chile played better today and holland only played with their goal difference and a shitty ref.

Re: caring about a major tournament you being an arsenal / Slovenia fan wouldn't know anything about it

The shots on target were 8-1 for Netherlands. The ref was great.

[Brunodf]

I got Spain and Chile tbh
Wrong upset

[diego]

The shots on target were 8-1 for Netherlands. The ref was great.

if you are going to be a stat fag in a sport that doesnt lend itself to being a stat fag (an attempt out of bounds can be a way better attempt than one "on target", a scoring opportunity that doesnt result in a shot attempt can be better than a shot into the stands etc), but at least use accurate stats. per uefa (the superior federation according to you), the dutch had 11 attempts 5 on target, chile 7 attempts 1 on target. not a huge difference at all. chile had 7 corners to the dutch 2, and holland committed 23 fouls to chile's 14. cherry picking "shots on target" as if they reflect the course of the game is fucking retarded.

as for the great ref, i'll disregard robben flopping himself to two free kicks in the first 10 minutes, de jong not getting a caution for breaking an attack intentionally with his hand in the first 10 minutes, and silva getting the weakest yellow card of the tournament in the first half hour. whatever, shit happens. what i wont disregard (and i wish i could find match video but there is nothing on youtube) is holland constantly fouling with no cards till the 64th minute. 12 fouls in the first half, 4 of them on alexis, all of them by blind, no card. silva got his card on his 2nd foul (of course, because robben got in the refs face and pressured him into it, he hadnt even reached to his pocket till robben got on him, the same way the dutch CBs have been getting into the faces of anyone who falls in their box regardless if they pushed them down or not as Kuyt pushed alexis who had won position to header a good cross in the 36th minute- had kuyt challenged the ball shoulder to shoulder i would agree no foul, but he was behind alexis and used his hand to push him down this is a text book penalty). there were 6 more fouls in the first 20 minutes of the second half, at this point blind has fouled alexis 6 times and alexis has been fouled in total 8 times, only then does he get his card. de jong and blind between them have committed 10 of the 18 fouls, both have committed multiple fouls in 1-2 minute spans, and all chile has to show for it is one yellow card and crosses they cant capitalize on because they are midgets. its not hollands fault they are midgets, but it is the refs fault for letting the dutch foul instead of defend.


whatever, chile has limitations and will never be a world cup contender, but the dutch team was disgusting yesterday, in fact im shocked a supposed arsenal fan would be impressed by that display. Defensive, counter attacking style is valid, but incessant fouling with no penalty beyond long freekicks is against the rules and the spirit of the game and the dutch will be beat by a team that has the aerial game to capitalize on those freekicks. chile's best chances were both by felipe gutierrez who was playing in place of vidal, Im quite confident that had he played this game would have been 2-0 for chile.

[velik_m]

if you are going to be a stat fag in a sport that doesnt lend itself to being a stat fag (an attempt out of bounds can be a way better attempt than one "on target", a scoring opportunity that doesnt result in a shot attempt can be better than a shot into the stands etc), but at least use accurate stats. per uefa (the superior federation according to you), the dutch had 11 attempts 5 on target, chile 7 attempts 1 on target. not a huge difference at all. chile had 7 corners to the dutch 2, and holland committed 23 fouls to chile's 14. cherry picking "shots on target" as if they reflect the course of the game is fucking retarded.

as for the great ref, i'll disregard robben flopping himself to two free kicks in the first 10 minutes, de jong not getting a caution for breaking an attack intentionally with his hand in the first 10 minutes, and silva getting the weakest yellow card of the tournament in the first half hour. whatever, shit happens. what i wont disregard (and i wish i could find match video but there is nothing on youtube) is holland constantly fouling with no cards till the 64th minute. 12 fouls in the first half, 4 of them on alexis, all of them by blind, no card. silva got his card on his 2nd foul (of course, because robben got in the refs face and pressured him into it, he hadnt even reached to his pocket till robben got on him, the same way the dutch CBs have been getting into the faces of anyone who falls in their box regardless if they pushed them down or not as Kuyt pushed alexis who had won position to header a good cross in the 36th minute- had kuyt challenged the ball shoulder to shoulder i would agree no foul, but he was behind alexis and used his hand to push him down this is a text book penalty). there were 6 more fouls in the first 20 minutes of the second half, at this point blind has fouled alexis 6 times and alexis has been fouled in total 8 times, only then does he get his card. de jong and blind between them have committed 10 of the 18 fouls, both have committed multiple fouls in 1-2 minute spans, and all chile has to show for it is one yellow card and crosses they cant capitalize on because they are midgets. its not hollands fault they are midgets, but it is the refs fault for letting the dutch foul instead of defend.


whatever, chile has limitations and will never be a world cup contender, but the dutch team was disgusting yesterday, in fact im shocked a supposed arsenal fan would be impressed by that display. Defensive, counter attacking style is valid, but incessant fouling with no penalty beyond long freekicks is against the rules and the spirit of the game and the dutch will be beat by a team that has the aerial game to capitalize on those freekicks. chile's best chances were both by felipe gutierrez who was playing in place of vidal, Im quite confident that had he played this game would have been 2-0 for chile.

And i'm confident had Van Persie played the score would be 5-0 for the Netherlands, funny how that works.

I cherry picked that stat because it matches my perception of the game - while Chile had possesion they weren't particulary dangerous with it. Maybe if Chilean players didn't fall over whenever somebody touched them they would get the benefit of the doubt from the referee. They fell so much in the dutch penalty box, i was getting worry if there is some inner ear infection epidemic going on in Chile.

I've never said i was impressed with the display of Netherlands and i don't know why you bring Arsenal into this. I was a Dutch fan long before i was an Arsenal fan - in fact the only reason i'm an Arsenal fan is Bergkamp. (and FYI Arsenal used to be known for the hard nosed defensive style of game back in the days). I don't really care for this particular iteration of dutch team though, as they have Robben and De Jong - two players i dislike very much. I fully understand why the Netherlands played the way they did, they were missing their best offensive weapon and they didn't need the win, it's called tactics. Deal with it.

And lol @ "against the spirit of the game"

[The Gemini Method]

Kind of felt some kind of way for David Villa when he walked off the pitch. Part of a widely successful incarnation of the Spanish side. Definitely wasn't the way he imagined he'd go out but at least he was part of the fulfillment (finally) of a talented Spanish side.

[diego]

Except van Persia wasn't there because he was suspended and Vidal was resting because he's coming off surgery. The dutch tactics paid off because the ref allowed it and you can't complain about two Chilean dives (the foul on Alexis in between wasn't) when robben set the tone from the start with his dives. Also shortly before the goal Alexis was brought down by the keeper, it looked like the keeper touched the ball so no complaints but the corner wasn't given. Not the first time a ref screws up but not a "great ref" I'll bet you he won't get another WC game