Oil jumps 2% at the close...

[CosmicCowboy]

get ready for high prices at the pump. The map of the Middle East is about to be rewritten and there are obviously going to be supply disruptions.

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course, a lot of my friends are gonna get richer. High oil prices aren't necessarily bad for Texas.

[ElNono]

better load up on gas now, tbh...

[m>s]

Ww3 race war now!!!!

[RandomGuy]

Of course, a lot of my friends are gonna get richer. High oil prices aren't necessarily bad for Texas.

Actually they are bad overall, even for Texas.

Fungible.

[RandomGuy]

get ready for high prices at the pump. The map of the Middle East is about to be rewritten and there are obviously going to be supply disruptions.


The only way to insulate ourselves from this is to use less oil. Made this case until I am blue in the face.

[Wild Cobra]

The only way to insulate ourselves from this is to use less oil. Made this case until I am blue in the face.
Well, oil prices are going to have to get pretty high before other methods are cost effective in the volume needed.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's not the volume it's the transportability.

[Wild Cobra]

It's not the volume it's the transportability.
That too. Fuel made from oil is a nice concentrated energy source.

Still, every other method of energy for transportation is expensive, except natural gas. The with NG, we only have so much that could be used for transportation. The cost curve will rise sharply as we start over using it, like it does with anything.

We simply have no viable replacement for oil yet.

[RandomGuy]

Well, oil prices are going to have to get pretty high before other methods are cost effective in the volume needed.

Macroeconomics. cough cough.

Tell me how does the concept of efficiencies of scale apply to your assessement?

[boutons_deux]

"oil prices are going to have to get pretty high before other methods are cost effective in the volume needed."

There are so many groups working worldwide on electrical energy storage/battery that I predict there will a epoch-changing breakthrough(s) and rapid industrialization of one or more solutions, spelling the end of gasoline and diesel for passenger cars and pickups. Then the price of oil, which will never be significantly lower than it is now, will be irrelevant.

Parallel research in photovoltaic efficiencies will also result in military/space PV efficiencies for the masses.

Financial analysts are already downgrading the future of coal-fired electricity companies.

The immense political power of BigCarbon and their Repug whore proxies are as big of impediment to PROGRESS as the science.

[Sportcamper]

I still don’t understand the Texas disdain for the Prius, Volt or Leaf…

[Wild Cobra]

Macroeconomics. cough cough.

Tell me how does the concept of efficiencies of scale apply to your assessment?
Efficiency does not get us where we need to be for some time yet. we have had decades for ouir current efficiencies for energy.

This is just over a decade old, I wonder what an updated one looks like. It does put the scale into perspective at least:

http://www.ecjones.org/US_Energy_Flow.gif (http://ecjones.org/)

[Wild Cobra]

Here's a more recent one for 2011:

http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/flow/total_energy.pdf

[RandomGuy]

Efficiency does not get us where we need to be for some time yet. we have had decades for ouir current efficiencies for energy.

This is just over a decade old, I wonder what an updated one looks like. It does put the scale into perspective at least:

http://www.ecjones.org/US_Energy_Flow.gif (http://ecjones.org/)

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131217081420/cardfight/images/8/8a/Triple_facepalm.png

So you don't really know how efficiencies of scale will effect your assertion.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[RandomGuy]

Well, oil prices are going to have to get pretty high before other methods are cost effective in the volume needed.


Macroeconomics. cough cough.

Tell me how does the concept of efficiencies of scale apply to your assessement?



Efficiency does not get us where we need to be for some time yet. we have had decades for ouir current efficiencies for energy.

This is just over a decade old, I wonder what an updated one looks like. It does put the scale into perspective at least:

http://www.ecjones.org/US_Energy_Flow.gif (http://ecjones.org/)

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131217081420/cardfight/images/8/8a/Triple_facepalm.png

So you don't really know how efficiencies of scale will effect your assertion.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Wild Cobra]

So you don't really know how efficiencies of scale will effect your assertion.

Thanks for clearing that up.

How about elaborating your point instead of being snarky about it.

[RandomGuy]

How about elaborating your point instead of being snarky about it.

No thanks.

I have tried to teach you micro and macro-economic concepts. It seems pointless to me at this point.

[Wild Cobra]

No thanks.

I have tried to teach you micro and macro-economic concepts. It seems pointless to me at this point.
Excuses excuses.

[RandomGuy]

ISIS is threatening, i.e. attacking, a large oil facility in northern Iraq.

[RandomGuy]

Excuses excuses.

If you really wanted to learn about economics, you could have done so by now.

In the past, when I have tried, you have simply rejected concepts and ideas that could be used to conflict with your world view.

You are the only one that can overcome your confirmation bias and/or ignorance of economics, and you consistently choose to do neither.

My time is limited, so I would prefer not to waste it, and I strongly suspect, based on long history, that explaining something to you on this subject would be a waste of time.

[Wild Cobra]

If you really wanted to learn about economics, you could have done so by now.

In the past, when I have tried, you have simply rejected concepts and ideas that could be used to conflict with your world view.

You are the only one that can overcome your confirmation bias and/or ignorance of economics, and you consistently choose to do neither.

My time is limited, so I would prefer not to waste it, and I strongly suspect, based on long history, that explaining something to you on this subject would be a waste of time.
Well, that's not how I remember it. Perhaps you should use all the variables needed.

[sickdsm]

A bushel of shell corn has the same heat value as 3.8 gallons of No. 2 heating oil (9500x56/140000 BTU). The current NY harbor price for fuel oil is $2.92 wholesale so the heating value of corn is $11.00 per bushel.

$2.85 per bushel is equivalent to 75 cents per gallon.

[RandomGuy]

Well, that's not how I remember it. Perhaps you should use all the variables needed.

:sleep

Your troll attempts are getting lamer than your political views.

[CosmicCowboy]

A bushel of shell corn has the same heat value as 3.8 gallons of No. 2 heating oil (9500x56/140000 BTU). The current NY harbor price for fuel oil is $2.92 wholesale so the heating value of corn is $11.00 per bushel.

$2.85 per bushel is equivalent to 75 cents per gallon.

That's a pretty cheesy comparison

corn isn't energy until it is turned into ethanol.

Lets use real numbers at todays prices.

Average #2 fuel oil price today delivered is $4.12 a gallon. It contains 138,000 BTU. Cost per BTU is 3 cents.

Average ethanol price today (at the refinery since there is no home delivery standard) is $2.10 a gallon and it contains 76,000 BTU. or average cost of 2.76 cents per BTU at the refinery

If you consider the additional cost of transporting ethanol (which can't go by pipeline like oil can) #2 oil still wins a head to head comparison at today's prices.



Average corn price is 3.90 a bushel in the field.

[CosmicCowboy]

Also, remember it takes 1 BTU of petroleum based energy to produce 2.3 BTU of ethanol

http://www.usda.gov/oce/reports/energy/2008Ethanol_June_final.pdf

[Sportcamper]

Seriously Cosmic...How do you know this stuff? :lol

Cosmic...Average #2 fuel oil price today delivered is $4.12 a gallon. It contains 138,000 BTU. Cost per BTU is 3 cents.
Average ethanol price today (at the refinery since there is no home delivery standard) is $2.10 a gallon and it contains 76,000 BTU. or average cost of 2.76 cents per BTU at the refinery
If you consider the additional cost of transporting ethanol (which can't go by pipeline like oil can) #2 oil still wins a head to head comparison at today's prices.
Average corn price is 3.90 a bushel in the field.

[tlongII]

Seriously Cosmic...How do you know this stuff? :lol

Cosmic...Average #2 fuel oil price today delivered is $4.12 a gallon. It contains 138,000 BTU. Cost per BTU is 3 cents.
Average ethanol price today (at the refinery since there is no home delivery standard) is $2.10 a gallon and it contains 76,000 BTU. or average cost of 2.76 cents per BTU at the refinery
If you consider the additional cost of transporting ethanol (which can't go by pipeline like oil can) #2 oil still wins a head to head comparison at today's prices.
Average corn price is 3.90 a bushel in the field.

I'm sure he just looked it up. It's basically common sense.

[sickdsm]

That's a pretty cheesy comparison

corn isn't energy until it is turned into ethanol.

Lets use real numbers at todays prices.

Average #2 fuel oil price today delivered is $4.12 a gallon. It contains 138,000 BTU. Cost per BTU is 3 cents.

Average ethanol price today (at the refinery since there is no home delivery standard) is $2.10 a gallon and it contains 76,000 BTU. or average cost of 2.76 cents per BTU at the refinery

If you consider the additional cost of transporting ethanol (which can't go by pipeline like oil can) #2 oil still wins a head to head comparison at today's prices.



Average corn price is 3.90 a bushel in the field.


Lots of people here burn corn as a primary source of heat. I guess they didn't get your memo about it not being energy. Tell me why?

You can't exactly burn ethanol as a heating source in conventional furnaces. But when you do talk about ethanol you might want to look at it as a byproduct of DDG's. To take a starchy feed product and turn it into a high protein feed is a game changer.


$2.85 is what corn is worth in the bakken right now.

[Wild Cobra]

Lots of people here burn corn as a primary source of heat. I guess they didn't get your memo about it not being energy. Tell me why?

You can't exactly burn ethanol as a heating source in conventional furnaces. But when you do talk about ethanol you might want to look at it as a byproduct of DDG's. To take a starchy feed product and turn it into a high protein feed is a game changer.


$2.85 is what corn is worth in the bakken right now.
What is the cost of fuel and feed if you remove all the subsidies?

[sickdsm]

Not sure.

How much does our military suisidies add to the oil price?