PATFO... Pay Diaw and Mills

[TheGreatYacht]

If the Big 3 stays, keep this team. We all know idiots like Kerr are going to want what the Spurs have... Mills will probably get offered big money by a lottery team but we need him back, he's sometimes our best PG and he took games over this season. Diaw NEEDS to comeback too, another playmaker to add to the bench when Manu is having one of those "Turnobili" games. He's easily the team's best post player and stretch big defender...

#PayBoris #PayPatty #PayChip

[Baam]

Boris deserves as much as Tiago and Mills can get the full MLE...

Mills may get a bigger role elsewhere and that could be hard to pass up tho.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Hard to do so when Kawhi will most likely get the max - someone is going to have to swallow their pride if they want to stay on this roster. Luckily Boris and Patty are team first guys.

[ElNono]

Should throw in another extension to Tim and Manu in the process... let them retire when they want...

[Baam]

Hard to do so when Kawhi will most likely get the max - someone is going to have to swallow their pride if they want to stay on this roster. Luckily Boris and Patty are team first guys.

Then they're gonna wait next summer to entend him and by then Tim and Manu will be off the books...

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Hard to do so when Kawhi will most likely get the max - someone is going to have to swallow their pride if they want to stay on this roster. Luckily Boris and Patty are team first guys.

Why is that. Spurs own both Mills and Diaw Bird Rights. Spurs have only 53 mil committed to Salaries next season. They are 24 mil under the Tax Level which is set to be around 77 mil next year based on the CBA. That means they have 25 mil to resign their players and still be under the Tax level.

I honestly don't see either leaving this offseason. They both want a chance for another run and they won't get anywhere else (well no contending team could outbid the Spurs at this point.) Diaw and Parker are best friends and Mills loves SA and his teammates.

[cjw]

Boris would be floundering around the league right now (probably undeservedly, as he got a raw deal in Charlotte) if it weren't for the Spurs. Hopefully he'll give a LITTLE bit of a hometown discount.

Boris is a unique player too but is not a true center like Splitter, which for whatever reason trade at a premium.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Why is that. Spurs own both Mills and Diaw Bird Rights. Spurs have only 53 mil committed to Salaries next season. They are 24 mil under the Tax Level which is set to be around 77 mil next year based on the CBA. That means they have 25 mil to resign their players and still be under the Tax level.

I honestly don't see either leaving this offseason. They both want a chance for another run and they won't get anywhere else (well no contending team could outbid the Spurs at this point.) Diaw and Parker are best friends and Mills loves SA and his teammates.

Thanks for the info :tu

[testies]

what if tim retires?

[Raven]

It should be an interesting offseason, i wouldnt pay diaw anything other than a one year deal. For patty, i think he should go.

[capek]

I really want, and expect that they'll both be back. Diaw is such a smart player, and I'm really invested in Mills as a Spurs, his progress, work ethic, and team spirit. I'd love to get the chance to watch him be a Spur for a long time.

[thiste]

Just give us one more fucking year. I really believe we can back to back if we keep everyone. Let Duncan retire with 6.

If we win this year the Heat will probably blow up in the off season. So next year the only hurdle will be OKC.

[keywester]

It should be an interesting offseason, i wouldnt pay diaw anything other than a one year deal. For patty, i think he should go.

I think Patty will go, but I don't agree that he should go. I'm interested in the reasons some of you think the Spurs should let him walk?

[Raven]

I think Patty will go, but I don't agree that he should go. I'm interested in the reasons some of you think the Spurs should let him walk?

Cojo is the better prospect and patty is not worth the money he should be paid given the lack of talent some teams have (lakers?). I think it would be really foolish for patty to stay in san antonio when he can cash in on a high note and give himself the best shot to a starting pg spot. I thought the same last year for neal, both of them earned relatively little in their career and are not supposed to take paycuts at their stage.

[cd98]

Doubt Tim retires if they win game 5. Why not break a ton of records next year and go for the Jordan tie? Heck, he might even take a pay cut to make sure we resign everyone and maybe add another piece or two.

[DJR210]

It should be an interesting offseason, i wouldnt pay diaw anything other than a one year deal. For patty, i think he should go.

:lol

[DJR210]

Doubt Tim retires if they win game 5. Why not break a ton of records next year and go for the Jordan tie? Heck, he might even take a pay cut to make sure we resign everyone and maybe add another piece or two.

:lol That would be funny if they ended up signing Melo on a mininum vet contract

[cd021]

Hard to do so when Kawhi will most likely get the max - someone is going to have to swallow their pride if they want to stay on this roster. Luckily Boris and Patty are team first guys.
Kawhi is eligible for an extension this offseason, but would still be on a cheap rookie deal through next season (when the big 3's deals expire) Mills and Diaws contracts shouldn't have an major impact on the teams cap going forward.

[Spur|n|Austin]

It should be an interesting offseason, i wouldnt pay diaw anything other than a one year deal. For patty, i think he should go.

Seriously?

[thiste]

:lol That would be funny if they ended up signing Melo on a mininum vet contract

I would gladly welcome LeBron or Durant to the Spurs as I think they are good coachable players who want to improve, win titles, and would listen to Pop as they have tremendous respect for him.

Melo, even if you gave him to us for free, I wouldn't want him on the Spurs.

[Raven]

Seriously?

paying like 8M per year for a backup pg doesn't seem wise tbh.. diaw doesn't have much of a sense to me for the after timmy age

[cd021]

Cojo is the better prospect and patty is not worth the money he should be paid given the lack of talent some teams have (lakers?). I think it would be really foolish for patty to stay in san antonio when he can cash in on a high note and give himself the best shot to a starting pg spot. I thought the same last year for neal, both of them earned relatively little in their career and are not supposed to take paycuts at their stage.

Mills is more than 3 years younger than Neal. He may not view this as his only chance at a cash grab. He could see this is a place where he could eventually be the starting PG.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

paying like 8M per year for a backup pg doesn't seem wise tbh.. diaw doesn't have much of a sense to me for the after timmy age

Diaw is only 32. He has at least 3 more good years in him left. Guys with high BB IQs like Diaw are hard to come by.

Mills is not getting 8 mil a year. I don't see anyone throwing Lin type of money for a guy that has been more of a spot up shooter in the Spurs system and hasn't shown he could be the starting PG on a team night in and night out. At most, he will get the full MLE.

[Beaverfuzz]

Patty can have a minor starting job for another team...can't blame him for possibly leaving. Diaw is a Spur 4 LIFE.

[Chinook]

Then they're gonna wait next summer to entend him and by then Tim and Manu will be off the books...

Kawhi will make the same next season whether he is extended or not. All the extension would do is lock up his 2015 salary a year early. If the Spurs are comfortable giving Leonard the max, they should wait until next off-season, when they could potentially play a little cap manipulation to bring in another big contract (similar to how Houston is trying to do with Parsons this off-season). The only reason to extend Kawhi (besides to soothe his ego if that's a potential issue) is to lock him up to a below-max deal, which seems unlikely at this point.

Although if Leonard flounders in the rest of this series, you never know how it will decrease his market.

[TheGreatYacht]

Diaw is only 32. He has at least 3 more good years in him left. Guys with high BB IQs like Diaw are hard to come by.

Mills is not getting 8 mil a year. I don't see anyone throwing Lin type of money for a guy that has been more of a spot up shooter in the Spurs system and hasn't shown he could be the starting PG on a team night in and night out. At most, he will get the full MLE.
Parker could talk Diaw to take the same $ as this year 4.5M

I wouldn't be mad at Patty taking the MLE, he won us enough games this season... Without him, there's no homecourt, tbh

[Baam]

Thanks for clearing that up, got confused.

[Chinook]

Diaw is a must-keep. Mills would be a nice player to keep, but I just don't see him as having a future with the Spurs post-Manu. He's getting better at being a PG, but he's still not good enough to back up Parker as the sole play-maker with the second unit (even with Diaw). Sure, if the Spurs draft a Kyle Anderson or a Bogdan Bogdanovic this season (and he pans out), they could perhaps get away with it again. But I'd hate to hear that the Spurs were knocked out of the Aldridge/Love/Bosh (/Gasol for those who like him) sweepstakes because they were short a Mills contract-worth of cap space.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Diaw is a must-keep. Mills would be a nice player to keep, but I just don't see him as having a future with the Spurs post-Manu. He's getting better at being a PG, but he's still not good enough to back-up Parker as the sole play-maker with the second unit (even with Diaw). Sure, if the Spurs draft a Kyle Anderson or a Bogdan Bogdanovic, they could perhaps get away with it again. But I'd hate to hear that the Spurs were knocked out of the Aldridge/Love/Bosh (/Gasol for those who like him) sweepstakes because they were short a Mills contract in cap space.

I don't want this to be the 2011 Mavs. You don't know if the Spurs can sign any of those guys. The Spurs are prime to make a run next year and possibly for a year after that if Duncan and Manu decide to stay for two more years. Spurs could always use Mills as trade bait in a sign and trade.

Mill has such a positive attitude, its infectious on this team. Spurs have only 8.5mil in Salaries committed for 2015 (Splitter). Kawhi and CoJo are Qualifying offers. Resigning Mills and Diaw would have zero impact on signing the players you mentioned considering that Parker, Duncan, and Manu would sign for less they are making right now if they came back.

[TheGreatYacht]

Diaw is a must-keep. Mills would be a nice player to keep, but I just don't see him as having a future with the Spurs post-Manu. He's getting better at being a PG, but he's still not good enough to back up Parker as the sole play-maker with the second unit (even with Diaw). Sure, if the Spurs draft a Kyle Anderson or a Bogdan Bogdanovic this season (and he pans out), they could perhaps get away with it again. But I'd hate to hear that the Spurs were knocked out of the Aldridge/Love/Bosh (/Gasol for those who like him) sweepstakes because they were short a Mills contract-worth of cap space.
Shabazz Napier could fill in for Patty if Spurs decide to go in the Gasol sweepstake

Although I'd rather see Spurs keep Patty and pick up Cleanthony Early... Spurs don't need to make a lot of changes. Parker can comeback healthier next year and the Spurs could go for #6 *knocks on wood*

[Chinook]

I don't want this to be the 2011 Mavs. You don't know if the Spurs can sign any of those guys. The Spurs are prime to make a run next year and possibly for a year after that if Duncan and Manu decide to stay for two more years. Spurs could always use Mills as trade bait in a sign and trade.

Mill has such a positive attitude, its infectious on this team. Spurs have only 8.5mil in Salaries committed for 2015 (Splitter). Kawhi and CoJo are Qualifying offers. Resigning Mills and Diaw would have zero impact on signing the players you mentioned considering that Parker, Duncan, and Manu would sign for less they are making right now if they came back.

I've done this math time and again. The Spurs won't have room for one max contract if they just bring back their starting lineup minus Duncan and plus Diaw at reasonable rates. That was before Boris' great playoffs. That was projecting Leonard at $10 Million in 2015 instead of the $14 Million he's now likely to get. It's going to be a struggle getting any cap space together now.

Also, Mills is not Tyson Chandler. At best, he's JJ Barea, whose departure from Dallas had little real impact.

[MaNu4Tres]

I've done this math time and again. The Spurs won't have room for one max contract if they just bring back their starting lineup minus Duncan and plus Diaw at reasonable rates. That was before Boris' great playoffs. That was projecting Leonard at $10 Million in 2015 instead of the $14 Million he's now likely to get. It's going to be a struggle getting any cap space together now.

Also, Mills is not Tyson Chandler. At best, he's JJ Barea, whose departure from Dallas had little real impact.

Still think Spurs and Leonard will agree closer to 5 for 60 oppose to the max. IMO. Time will tell.

[thiste]

It's not so much as "we have to keep Diaw". To me it's more like, Diaw is exactly the type of player that Pop totally drools over, so in my mind there is no way in hell Pop lets him go this summer (or anytime soon) anyway. I can see him hold onto Diaw the same way he held onto the Red Mamba all these years.

[Chinook]

Shabazz Napier could fill in for Patty if Spurs decide to go in the Gasol sweepstake

Although I'd rather see Spurs keep Patty and pick up Cleanthony Early... Spurs don't need to make a lot of changes. Parker can comeback healthier next year and the Spurs could go for #6 *knocks on wood*

Don't like Early, and I think that's a 2014-only approach. If the Spurs want to remain competitive in 2015, they're going to need to only snag a third star (preferably at PF) but they'll also need to fill out the rest of their rotation with only about $10 Million. That means they have to not only draft good players but also draft good players at different positions. With Jean-Charles and Bertans, SF is spoken for, and between LJC and Diaw, PF is spoken for as well. So there's no point in drafting another forward, in my opinion.

[cd98]

Diaw is only 32. He has at least 3 more good years in him left. Guys with high BB IQs like Diaw are hard to come by.

Mills is not getting 8 mil a year. I don't see anyone throwing Lin type of money for a guy that has been more of a spot up shooter in the Spurs system and hasn't shown he could be the starting PG on a team night in and night out. At most, he will get the full MLE.

This is correct. Mills has a nice jump shot and no question he has given our team a spark. But let's not forget he is an undersized shooting guard who can't create for others. I think several teams would like to have him, but I also don't think he is much more than a back up point guard in this league. And no one pays big money for a backup point guard unless they are morons. That should keep him from signing with only half the teams in the NBA, though.

[Ocotillo]

I would gladly welcome LeBron or Durant to the Spurs as I think they are good coachable players who want to improve, win titles, and would listen to Pop as they have tremendous respect for him.

Melo, even if you gave him to us for free, I wouldn't want him on the Spurs.

+1

[SupremeGuy]

It should be an interesting offseason, i wouldnt pay diaw anything other than a one year deal. For patty, i think he should go.Classic shitty post, tbh. :lol

[urunobili]

Should throw in another extension to Tim and Manu in the process... let them retire when they want...

[TheyCallMePro]

Re-signing Patty would take a deal around 5 million a year. Backups don't make that much. If he was smart, he'd go to another team that would be willing to pay him more and start.

Boris is easier because he's older. Less teams will want his services, and the Spurs can convince him to sign for something like 2 years/16 mil.

Leonard and Parker are eligible for extensions this summer. They are our 2 best players. They'll be taken care of first and what's left will go into re-signing Diaw and Mills. But more so Diaw because Cojo is behind Mills.

[TheGoldStandard]

We will find out who wants to be a Spur and who's chasing money.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Tim has until June 24th to pick up his $10.3 million player option for next season..

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/11078583/tim-duncan-june-24-deadline-contract-decision-according-sources

[Chinook]

Re-signing Patty would take a deal around 5 million a year. Backups don't make that much. If he was smart, he'd go to another team that would be willing to pay him more and start.

Boris is easier because he's older. Less teams will want his services, and the Spurs can convince him to sign for something like 2 years/16 mil.

Leonard and Parker are eligible for extensions this summer. They are our 2 best players. They'll be taken care of first and what's left will go into re-signing Diaw and Mills. But more so Diaw because Cojo is behind Mills.

Parker's been eligible for an extension since the beginning of the season.

[tuncaboylu]

We should keep both, I agree.

But honestly I don't believe that a big contract will be offered to Diaw. Yes he's an extreme player, has a great BB IQ and it's fun to watch him. But he can be a good fit for the contenders only. I don't think that a lottery team will make an offer to him and I don't see that any contender can offer him full MLE.

And Mills. I think 3 years 8 million contract would be enough to sign with him.

[smaka]

It should be an interesting offseason, i wouldnt pay diaw anything other than a one year deal. For patty, i think he should go.
Stupid take, imo.

[Baam]

I've done this math time and again. The Spurs won't have room for one max contract if they just bring back their starting lineup minus Duncan and plus Diaw at reasonable rates. That was before Boris' great playoffs. That was projecting Leonard at $10 Million in 2015 instead of the $14 Million he's now likely to get. It's going to be a struggle getting any cap space together now.

Also, Mills is not Tyson Chandler. At best, he's JJ Barea, whose departure from Dallas had little real impact.

I think it's becoming clear they won't go for the max FA strategy now, they're most likely in a better position to trade for that PF (either as a draft pick or as a veteran)... If they trade for a pick, they could use the Love/Melo fever going on right now, besides a draft pick is probably need two years to be ready so they'd have to do it this year.

[Cry Havoc]

http://i.imgur.com/d3LRXhA.jpg


Yeah, let's not keep this guy, he hasn't done anything note-worthy.

[Cry Havoc]

http://giant.gfycat.com/WarmSpitefulGalah

Yep. Hasn't earned anything.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

http://i.imgur.com/d3LRXhA.jpg


Yeah, let's not keep this guy, he hasn't done anything note-worthy.

This isn't mentioning he was top ten in steals per 36 min in the nba as well.

[Raven]

Stupid take, imo.

what do you think we should do? be specific please.

[Raven]

http://i.imgur.com/d3LRXhA.jpg


Yeah, let's not keep this guy, he hasn't done anything note-worthy.
except he's not a point guard.

[Cry Havoc]

except he's not a point guard.

That would mean his stats are even more impressive.

[smaka]

what do you think we should do? be specific please.
I'd sign Boris for more than 1 year no matter what, no matter if Tim and Manu decide to hang it up next week. He is just too damn valuable for this team to let him go. Spurs, with their orgamization, won't be a lottery team anyways after Tim and Manu quit.
As for Patty, I'd keep him because he has shown a lot of improvemet this year and contributed regularly in the playoffs too. In RS, he is that kind of guy who can win you a game by himself. And I think i don't need to mention how great teammate he is and I'd bet my ass he is one of the guys that contributes the most to team chemistry.
We'll see how much they will be ready to sacrifise to stay in SA.

[keywester]

As a FA, I hope Mills goes for the playing time and money. I've admitted before, I'm a Mills fan. I have to believe Raven is a COJO guy or anti NBA midget guy? Whatever the case, Mills is statistically superior to most PG's and despite his "shortness" I believe he could develop into a top PG. The irony is that i'm sure Miami wouldn't mind having Mills on their roster in these playoffs!!! To my mind, you either follow a player or you follow a team. I'm a player follower and really don't care what team Mills plays for as long as he plays (even in China). His Aussi Boomer mate and college mate Dellavedova plays for the sucky Cav's, but that doesn't stop me from watching the Cav's as I am an fan of both. After all, it's entertainment!!!

[ElNono]

Wish everybody would be back, tbh... but I can't complain if they chase some $$$.... guys like Patty are probably looking at the best payday they're going to get...

[Mugen]

Yeah, I'd love for the team to come back but would certainly be happy for Patty if somebody overpays for him. CoJo is more than capable of being a terrific backup PG.

Boris wouldn't have the same impact if he played for any other team/coach though. Hopefully he likes playing ball with his best friend and takes a fair contract to stay tbh.

[Raven]

I'd sign Boris for more than 1 year no matter what, no matter if Tim and Manu decide to hang it up next week. He is just too damn valuable for this team to let him go. Spurs, with their orgamization, won't be a lottery team anyways after Tim and Manu quit.
As for Patty, I'd keep him because he has shown a lot of improvemet this year and contributed regularly in the playoffs too. In RS, he is that kind of guy who can win you a game by himself. And I think i don't need to mention how great teammate he is and I'd bet my ass he is one of the guys that contributes the most to team chemistry.
We'll see how much they will be ready to sacrifise to stay in SA.

You're probably assuming parker stays, do i understand right? I dont think it would be wise tbh, we risk ending like the rockets this way imo

[Hemotivo]

#PayBoris #PayPatty

[Hemotivo]

http://i.imgur.com/d3LRXhA.jpg


Yeah, let's not keep this guy, he hasn't done anything note-worthy.

amazing year

[Texas_Ranger]

Last season Nate Robinson and Belinelli had a great season and they were bot amazing in the playoffs. Look how much they got. Just a little more then 2M. Do you really think Patty is worth 5M? I'd get it if Boris would get that money but not Patty.

[Raven]

As a FA, I hope Mills goes for the playing time and money. I've admitted before, I'm a Mills fan. I have to believe Raven is a COJO guy or anti NBA midget guy? Whatever the case, Mills is statistically superior to most PG's and despite his "shortness" I believe he could develop into a top PG. The irony is that i'm sure Miami wouldn't mind having Mills on their roster in these playoffs!!! To my mind, you either follow a player or you follow a team. I'm a player follower and really don't care what team Mills plays for as long as he plays (even in China). His Aussi Boomer mate and college mate Dellavedova plays for the sucky Cav's, but that doesn't stop me from watching the Cav's as I am an fan of both. After all, it's entertainment!!!

yes you're right, i don't see patty as a starting pg because he can't defend the westchimps of the league and is not really a pg in the playmaker sense of the word. With us he's basically a shooter and glue guy which is great but if i have to pay him 8 a year, well count me out. If it's less, well perhaps...

[keywester]

Last season Nate Robinson and Belinelli had a great season and they were bot amazing in the playoffs. Look how much they got. Just a little more then 2M. Do you really think Patty is worth 5M? I'd get it if Boris would get that money but not Patty.

Good point!! Lets compare Splitter's contibution and wage to Mill's contribution and wage. It's always a gamble. Is one worth ten times the other? Sometimes yes...sometimes no.

[Raven]

Last season Nate Robinson and Belinelli had a great season and they were bot amazing in the playoffs. Look how much they got. Just a little more then 2M. Do you really think Patty is worth 5M? I'd get it if Boris would get that money but not Patty.

lakers tbh

[buttsR4rebounding]

I think Mills leaves. He will be offered good money and will take it. Players might take a cut for the team after they have made theirs, but never on your first big contract. You can never assume there will be a second or that you can command as much a year later. He also probably gets a legit shot at being a starting point guard in the NBA. He won't pass that up. I think Diaw stays. The Spurs will pay him a fair amount. He knows he blends with this team the best in the league and he gets to play with one of his best friends. You can replace what Mills brings much easier than Diaw. The likelihood IMO is that Leonard takes up those shots next year anyway. I would be surprised if next year Leonard is not at least the 2nd leading scorer on the team.

[keywester]

I think Mills leaves. He will be offered good money and will take it. Players might take a cut for the team after they have made theirs, but never on your first big contract. You can never assume there will be a second or that you can command as much a year later. He also probably gets a legit shot at being a starting point guard in the NBA. He won't pass that up. I think Diaw stays. The Spurs will pay him a fair amount. He knows he blends with this team the best in the league and he gets to play with one of his best friends. You can replace what Mills brings much easier than Diaw. The likelihood IMO is that Leonard takes up those shots next year anyway. I would be surprised if next year Leonard is not at least the 2nd leading scorer on the team.

I believe your analysis is spot on!!!

[cjw]

lakers tbh

They're not looking to clog cap space right now. Trying to clear everything out.

[DJR210]

amazing year

And all these accomplishments without using the "three goggles" once this season..epic

[pad300]

I think we should be able to keep Boris - I see the most him getting on the open market is something like $15M/3years (ie. the MLE for 3 years). Patty on the other hand, I see someone falling in love and chucking $6-8 Million /season at him; I can't see us matching that. Cojo should be able to step up though, I really liked him in the Thunder Series. Further, what do people think of trading Belinelli (or Next years first or both for 2 picks) for a high (31-39) second in this draft. I think there are potentially some very good players that will fall to the 2nd round in this draft - it's really loaded...

[keywester]

I think we should be able to keep Boris - I see the most him getting on the open market is something like $15M/3years (ie. the MLE for 3 years). Patty on the other hand, I see someone falling in love and chucking $6-8 Million /season at him; I can't see us matching that. Cojo should be able to step up though, I really liked him in the Thunder Series. Further, what do people think of trading Belinelli (or Next years first or both for 2 picks) for a high (31-39) second in this draft. I think there are potentially some very good players that will fall to the 2nd round in this draft - it's really loaded...

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patty 6-8 million? Please don't tell him about the offer before he earns his ring!!! Just kidding!!! I'm sure Patty will do his bst despite the money!!!

[cjw]

Further, what do people think of trading Belinelli (or Next years first or both for 2 picks) for a high (31-39) second in this draft.

I actually wouldn't mind trading Beli, Ayres and Daye (all expirings, plus Daye can be bought out for savings of $750k) - $5 million of salary going out, along with the first rounder, to a team on the rebuild for the right piece coming back on a longer contract.

I trust the front office knows what it's doing. Tons of flexibility heading into the offseason with no albatross contracts to contend with. Can bring the whole gang back together if it wants, or if Mills prices himself out, spend that money elsewhere. Worst case, they'll have around $4 million of cap room (if Diaw signs at $5-$6 million) plus the small midlevel to bring in someone to replace him.

[TheGreatYacht]

I think we should be able to keep Boris - I see the most him getting on the open market is something like $15M/3years (ie. the MLE for 3 years). Patty on the other hand, I see someone falling in love and chucking $6-8 Million /season at him; I can't see us matching that. Cojo should be able to step up though, I really liked him in the Thunder Series. Further, what do people think of trading Belinelli (or Next years first or both for 2 picks) for a high (31-39) second in this draft. I think there are potentially some very good players that will fall to the 2nd round in this draft - it's really loaded...
I'm a COJO hater. The guy never showed up when he had minutes as a backup last year in the playoffs/season. IMO people are overrating what he did against OKC when they had stopped trying...

Mills made Manu's job in the bench so much easier this year, running point, hitting open shots, provide the energy on both ends, hit CRAZY shots. Like I said before, Mills won us homecourt this year... He stepped up when our old guys rested when he EXPLODED and hit crazy shots against the Blazers, Bobcats, Clippers, Warriors, Wizards, etc.
Plus, you can't buy team chemistry. Patty was the glue that kept everyone's head up even in his bench warming days. The guy made "frogging" :lmao

IMO Mills is worth 4yr/ 20M

[tholdren]

Doubt Tim retires if they win game 5. Why not break a ton of records next year and go for the Jordan tie? Heck, he might even take a pay cut to make sure we resign everyone and maybe add another piece or two.

This is what I am thinking.

[Spur|n|Austin]

#PayBoris #PayPatty

[BackHome]

I actually wouldn't mind trading Beli, Ayres and Daye (all expirings, plus Daye can be bought out for savings of $750k) - $5 million of salary going out, along with the first rounder, to a team on the rebuild for the right piece coming back on a longer contract.

I trust the front office knows what it's doing. Tons of flexibility heading into the offseason with no albatross contracts to contend with. Can bring the whole gang back together if it wants, or if Mills prices himself out, spend that money elsewhere. Worst case, they'll have around $4 million of cap room (if Diaw signs at $5-$6 million) plus the small midlevel to bring in someone to replace him.

I like that trading B.A.D for a athletic SG/PF or a higher draft pick.

[Mark in Austin]

Engelland: 5yr, 5M
Diaw: 2yr, 10M
Mills: 4yr, 16M

[TheGreatYacht]

I like that trading B.A.D for a athletic SG/PF or a higher draft pick.
J.R Smith? :lmao I'm sure Phil wants no part of him and his shitty contract

All he needs to do is hit his open shots, listen to Pop, believe in the system, quit gang banging thots, quit smoking, stop drinking, and be European...

[DMC]

Tim will not leave 10m on the table with a championship level team awaiting him. Hes not going quietly... he's going to run till the wheels fall off and you still got your wheels when you're up 3-1 in the Finals.

[vander]

Hard to do so when Kawhi will most likely get the max - someone is going to have to swallow their pride if they want to stay on this roster. Luckily Boris and Patty are team first guys.

he better not get even close to the max, that is a mistake loser franchises make.

[TheGreatYacht]

he better not get even close to the max, that is a mistake loser franchises make.
This franchise has paid
10M< for Splitter this season...
10M< for Richard Jefferson...


I don't want to imagine the amount of $$$ Kawhi will get

[tuncaboylu]

I think Mills will not get much more than Gary Neal. We will not pay more than that in my opinion, our offer would be 3 year 9 M at max.

Yes Milss shined in finals but Neal shined much more last year. Mills' averages are 7 pts, 1.4 assists, 1.5 rebounds in 15 minutes in playoffs. I believe no one will offer him 5M per year.

[benfti]

except he's not a point guard.

Im getting really sick of this narrow view. There are several reasons why this is a pretty short sighted.

1. Patty is starting to show he is a good passer, he can create for himself plus his assist ratio has been increasing all season.
2. If you factor in his rate of improvement in all aspects of his game since he became a spur, is it so hard to imagine that he won't improve his pg play? Right now he does not have to carry this load, but over time he can grow into it given the opportunity to do so. His work with the ant is proof.
3. He is 25 years old, and this is the spurs, we develop players who have the right constitution to be the best they can be and what we need them to be. We don't install a revolving door, that's why we win 50+ a year. Patty is a long term spur, he Kawhi, Danny and Tiago are the future pieces that we build the next dynasty around.

Patty is a point guard who is also talented enough to have some 2 guard skills also.

you want to know why we play such amazing basketball, it's because the top end demand it, put the team first, guys like Patty will be that same attitude guy when new blood comes in, post big 3.

stop playing 2k franchise mode and pay attention to how your team has gone about its business the last 20 years.

[Spur|n|Austin]

he better not get even close to the max, that is a mistake loser franchises make.

The only problem with not giving max is the amount of other suitors. My hope is that this franchise is a perfect fit, and he wants to stay.

[99 Problems]

Im getting really sick of this narrow view. There are several reasons why this is a pretty short sighted.

1. Patty is starting to show he is a good passer, he can create for himself plus his assist ratio has been increasing all season.
2. If you factor in his rate of improvement in all aspects of his game since he became a spur, is it so hard to imagine that he won't improve his pg play? Right now he does not have to carry this load, but over time he can grow into it given the opportunity to do so. His work with the ant is proof.
3. He is 25 years old, and this is the spurs, we develop players who have the right constitution to be the best they can be and what we need them to be. We don't install a revolving door, that's why we win 50+ a year. Patty is a long term spur, he Kawhi, Danny and Tiago are the future pieces that we build the next dynasty around.

Patty is a point guard who is also talented enough to have some 2 guard skills also.

you want to know why we play such amazing basketball, it's because the top end demand it, put the team first, guys like Patty will be that same attitude guy when new blood comes in, post big 3.

stop playing 2k franchise mode and pay attention to how your team has gone about its business the last 20 years.


And you know what Pop values, a back up pg who turns the ball over once every four champ games against the Heat. Look after the rock, first and fmost. Millsy is doin work.

[benfti]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patty 6-8 million? Please don't tell him about the offer before he earns his ring!!! Just kidding!!! I'm sure Patty will do his bst despite the money!!!

Patty fan or not, you have never met him, have you? He is a different cat. Not having a go btw, but that's not his motivator fwiw, and he is also the type of guy who would rather earn the start here than be gifted it else where.

he also has not forgotten who plucked him out of the wilderness when the blazers waived him.

he is an aboriginal man, an island man, a family man.

id be shocked if patfo wanted him and he left.

[Mark in Austin]

i could see SA offering 5 yrs/$50M to Kawhi this summer to tie him up now, and if he wants more waiting to see what the market does next summer. They can beat any offer he gets. But if Kawhi wants the security of a guaranteed contract extension this summer the cost for that will be a bit of a discount.

[DOMV]

Patty and Boris are suddenly good players because of the Spurs system. They will just fade away if they sign up elsewhere. Remember Boris was cut by the Bobcats while Patty was insignificant in Portland?

[Macca76]

Im getting really sick of this narrow view. There are several reasons why this is a pretty short sighted.

1. Patty is starting to show he is a good passer, he can create for himself plus his assist ratio has been increasing all season.
2. If you factor in his rate of improvement in all aspects of his game since he became a spur, is it so hard to imagine that he won't improve his pg play? Right now he does not have to carry this load, but over time he can grow into it given the opportunity to do so. His work with the ant is proof.
3. He is 25 years old, and this is the spurs, we develop players who have the right constitution to be the best they can be and what we need them to be. We don't install a revolving door, that's why we win 50+ a year. Patty is a long term spur, he Kawhi, Danny and Tiago are the future pieces that we build the next dynasty around.

Patty is a point guard who is also talented enough to have some 2 guard skills also.

you want to know why we play such amazing basketball, it's because the top end demand it, put the team first, guys like Patty will be that same attitude guy when new blood comes in, post big 3.

stop playing 2k franchise mode and pay attention to how your team has gone about its business the last 20 years.

Exactly
I really think Mills will stay. To me he is different than Neal in the way he IS a spur. He has the right attitude from the very beginning, he is very coachable and Pop likes that (a lot), he made the efforts to be a better defender, he lost weight and above all he is so team oriented. And is a legitimate 3-pt shooter.
In a way he symbolizes what this team is making right now, winning without a true superstar (TP is VERY good but not a star, like Lebron, KD... and he is certainly not paid like them). Team first, passes, effort and win oriented. Win and not me, me, me.
I just love the guy, he is what we need and at 25 he certainly will improve also. I think the FO values that and if this means by paying the guy, I assume they will (that being said I highly doubt he gets more than 5M a year on the market but I'm far from an expert, I assume the length of the contract could be a major factor).

And for Boris of course the FO wants him to stay, and I assume he would be ok for a discount, he made his dollars already and he just LOVES playing in SA, the way he likes to play, with a spirit he likes. The big question is the length of his contract. He proved that he belongs here and is a very valuable, on all the levels, offense, defense, 2nd best passer of the team and he has proved this year that he can be a major factor at the bigger stage, he is just outstanding in the finals, tied in my opinion with Kawhi for biggest factor. He has the right skill set and mindset and history has proved that FO rewards this.

I think the FO will what is needed to keep them both

[tholdren]

I think the FO will want to sign patty, but will let him walk if he's chasing money. It would be shitty to see him go, but I think he has earned more this year than Neal did last year, and he's a coachable player, which speaks volumes.

What other bench player could we get, that is as team oriented as patty, that can create his own shot, and is not a TO machine?

I can't think of any, which may be another reason people will pay him possibly more than he is worth.

[NASpurs]

Patty and Boris are suddenly good players because of the Spurs system. They will just fade away if they sign up elsewhere. Remember Boris was cut by the Bobcats while Patty was insignificant in Portland?

Boris was cut from the Bobcats because he didn't want to play for that loser organization anymore, but not because of his skills as a player. SJax and Bobo were killing teams for a while there.

[bigfan]

lets win the ring then discuss all this shit

[dg7md]

Patty will be our PG future tbh...

[TheGreatYacht]

Patty will be our PG future tbh...
I agree

[Richie]

i could see SA offering 5 yrs/$50M to Kawhi this summer to tie him up now, and if he wants more waiting to see what the market does next summer. They can beat any offer he gets. But if Kawhi wants the security of a guaranteed contract extension this summer the cost for that will be a bit of a discount.

That's way too much of a discount for Kawhi. He will almost certainly get offered a max contract if we let him go in to restricted free agency, and we will be foolish not to match it. With the cap going up, a starting max contract for Kawhi will be around $14m, and a 5 year deal with max increases will be around $80m/5yr.

If we could get Kawhi to start at $12m, thus giving him a $70m/5yr or $54/4yr contract, would be a good deal and an acceptable discount.

[Richie]

As for Diaw and Mills, if we can get both for a combined £8m we'll have done well. Diaw won't want to go to a lottery team and a lottery team should rightfully be wary of paying him big money, and no contender will have the cap room to pay him more than the MLE.

As for Mills, I think he is worth around a Neal level deal of $3m. Theres a chance a team would offer him more, just look at the Cavs giving Jarrett Jack $25m/4yr, but if that happens and he wants to get paid then I wouldn't be mad at him and I'd wish him luck.

Pay Diaw $15m/3yr and Patty $9m/3yr and I think everyone is happy.

[Baam]

Diaw at 5M while Splitter gets twice as much :lmao, might as well ask him to play for the minimum...

7.5M like Manu is the absolute minimum for Boris...

[TJastal]

As for Diaw and Mills, if we can get both for a combined £8m we'll have done well. Diaw won't want to go to a lottery team and a lottery team should rightfully be wary of paying him big money, and no contender will have the cap room to pay him more than the MLE.

As for Mills, I think he is worth around a Neal level deal of $3m. Theres a chance a team would offer him more, just look at the Cavs giving Jarrett Jack $25m/4yr, but if that happens and he wants to get paid then I wouldn't be mad at him and I'd wish him luck.

Pay Diaw $15m/3yr and Patty $9m/3yr and I think everyone is happy.

+1

I will lay money that Mills won't leave the spurs, even for more money. He will take a reasonable offer like the one suggested above. He is a great fit on the team and is loyal. Plus he's learned/is still learning from some of the best in the league and is gaining confidence by the minute. And he still has plenty of room to get better.

[Richie]

As it pertains to cap space, here's how I see it breaking down. We don't have any cap room this year regardless if we want to bring back Diaw and Mills, and even if we don't then we only have $9m assuming Duncan opts in. Simply put, there's no downside in cap terms to bringing Diaw and Mills back next year.

2015 is where it gets interesting. It could be the best free agent class ever, with Love, Aldridge, Gasol and possibly Lebron, Bosh and Melo. We are clearly looking towards that class with the way Splitters contract has been structured.

First of all it should be clear that if Duncan or Manu come back for 2015 and want to make anything more than the mini-MLE or vet minimum, we aren't going to have cap space for anybody so the debate is over before it begins. Assuming they both retire though, here's how it could look:

If we resign Mills, Diaw and can get Kawhi at a slight discount (starting $12m instead of $14m), we could be looking at a payroll of

Kawhi $12m
Splitter $8.5m
Diaw $5m
Mills $3m

Next comes our important free agents for that year, Parker and Green. If we can sign them starting around their current salaries, thats...

Parker $13m
Green $4m

Totall all that up and we have $44.5m committed to those 6 players. Add in around $3m of cap holds for the rest of the roster we go to $47.5m, meaning we could offer a $15m contract to somebody assuming a cap of $62.5m.

Is $15m enough for those free agents mentioned? I think it's certainly enough to bring in Marc Gasol (who is my #1 choice outside of Lebron), but perhaps not enough for Love, Aldridge or Melo.

Personally I don't think it's worth turning down Mills at $3m/yr just to roll the dice for a player like Love, Aldridge or Melo, none of whom will bring in the defence that we will lose with Duncan retiring.

[Perry Mason]

except he's not a point guard.

Mills is a ball-handler now and it continues to improve at an impressive pace. His improvement to today is remarkable and shows no signs of dropping off. He is a late bloomer, that is all. So was Dirk. Patty could literally become Tony's replacement as his court vision and ball-handling improve. Think 4-5 years from now.

Do not let this guy go. He won many games for us this year, and has proven himself in the Finals against the super-team that has won the last 2 titles. He is the proverbial diamond in the rough that the Spurs are famous for finding for magic beans.

And I said all this when he was fat and uncoordinated in 2012 when we signed him. I saw the potential and knew it could go this way. And Patty has not disappointed. He is a consummate Spur. He was not groomed to be the backup point guard. Like Danny Green, he fought harder than ever to improve and get where he is, forcing Pop to use him.

And Diaw, there is no 2014 explosion without Diaw. The improvements in the system would not have borne the fruit they have this year without the personnel improvements. Diaw and Patty are the two keys to it all. Marco contributed for the regular season portion; shame his playoffs have been muted (cept' that big 3 in game 3).

[Perry Mason]

I'm a COJO hater. The guy never showed up when he had minutes as a backup last year in the playoffs/season. IMO people are overrating what he did against OKC when they had stopped trying...

Mills made Manu's job in the bench so much easier this year, running point, hitting open shots, provide the energy on both ends, hit CRAZY shots. Like I said before, Mills won us homecourt this year... He stepped up when our old guys rested when he EXPLODED and hit crazy shots against the Blazers, Bobcats, Clippers, Warriors, Wizards, etc.
Plus, you can't buy team chemistry. Patty was the glue that kept everyone's head up even in his bench warming days. The guy made "frogging" :lmao

IMO Mills is worth 4yr/ 20M

I could not agree more. Perfect analysis. People are seriously underrating what Patty has brought. HE IS NOT EASILY REPLACEABLE. Seriously, we were pining for busted up TJ Ford before Patty emerged. Backup point guards good enough for contending teams are very very hard to come by.

[Raven]

Mills is a ball-handler now and it continues to improve at an impressive pace. His improvement to today is remarkable and shows no signs of dropping off. He is a late bloomer, that is all. So was Dirk. Patty could literally become Tony's replacement as his court vision and ball-handling improve. Think 4-5 years from now.

Do not let this guy go. He won many games for us this year, and has proven himself in the Finals against the super-team that has won the last 2 titles. He is the proverbial diamond in the rough that the Spurs are famous for finding for magic beans.

And I said all this when he was fat and uncoordinated in 2012 when we signed him. I saw the potential and knew it could go this way. And Patty has not disappointed. He is a consummate Spur. He was not groomed to be the backup point guard. Like Danny Green, he fought harder than ever to improve and get where he is, forcing Pop to use him.

And Diaw, there is no 2014 explosion without Diaw. The improvements in the system would not have borne the fruit they have this year without the personnel improvements. Diaw and Patty are the two keys to it all. Marco contributed for the regular season portion; shame his playoffs have been muted (cept' that big 3 in game 3).

you are probably mistaking ball handler with the guy that gets the ball to the other side of the court.

[Perry Mason]

you are probably mistaking ball handler with the guy that gets the ball to the other side of the court.

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. You have some of the worst takes I have read on this site (excluding troll posts). Pithy one-liners are not argument.

[Chinook]

As it pertains to cap space, here's how I see it breaking down. We don't have any cap room this year regardless if we want to bring back Diaw and Mills, and even if we don't then we only have $9m assuming Duncan opts in. Simply put, there's no downside in cap terms to bringing Diaw and Mills back next year.

2015 is where it gets interesting. It could be the best free agent class ever, with Love, Aldridge, Gasol and possibly Lebron, Bosh and Melo. We are clearly looking towards that class with the way Splitters contract has been structured.

First of all it should be clear that if Duncan or Manu come back for 2015 and want to make anything more than the mini-MLE or vet minimum, we aren't going to have cap space for anybody so the debate is over before it begins. Assuming they both retire though, here's how it could look:

If we resign Mills, Diaw and can get Kawhi at a slight discount (starting $12m instead of $14m), we could be looking at a payroll of

Kawhi $12m
Splitter $8.5m
Diaw $5m
Mills $3m

Next comes our important free agents for that year, Parker and Green. If we can sign them starting around their current salaries, thats...

Parker $13m
Green $4m

Totall all that up and we have $44.5m committed to those 6 players. Add in around $3m of cap holds for the rest of the roster we go to $47.5m, meaning we could offer a $15m contract to somebody assuming a cap of $62.5m.

Is $15m enough for those free agents mentioned? I think it's certainly enough to bring in Marc Gasol (who is my #1 choice outside of Lebron), but perhaps not enough for Love, Aldridge or Melo.

Personally I don't think it's worth turning down Mills at $3m/yr just to roll the dice for a player like Love, Aldridge or Melo, none of whom will bring in the defence that we will lose with Duncan retiring.

Well, count me as a person on the other side of that argument. I definitely don't think Mills is worth losing that cap space. He's not a bad player, but he's definitely not a post-Big Three player with a roster as constructed above. I can get on board with Mills being a good tertiary ball-handler who's working his way up to being a decent secondary one, but I don't think he'll ever be good enough to lead his own unit without one or two players next to him with at least as much play-making ability as he has. Unless the Spurs draft or sign a couple of young players to help off the bench, I see a potential signing of Mills to be extremely short-sighted.

Speaking of young players, you forgot to add in three holds for first-rounders (Jean-Charles and whomever the team drafts this and next year). That adds at least a million to your projected cap. I also think you're at least a million under what Green and Diaw will get, and perhaps what Mills would get as well. With those projections in mind, the Spurs would be closer to $10-11 Million if they keep Mills and extend Leonard. That's not enough to get Gasol (and again, I think it'd be a really poor decision to try to run with both Marc and Tiago in the front court), let alone Love, Aldridge or Bosh (Melo isn't even a consideration).

They could save the $3-4 Million by not re-signing Mills, and they could save another $5 Million or so by waiting to re-sign Leonard and not extending him. Doing both would be the only way for the Spurs to be able to afford a vested-max contract, but even if they're aiming for a below-vested-max contract in the $15 Million range, they'll have to make some sacrifices such as continuing to keep picks in Europe and not signing any young players to multi-year deals this off-season. And even with all that, they'd have to not extend Kawhi to be able to have enough cap space if they keep Mills (and Baynes, but people forget the Spurs have a decision with him coming up as well).

Personally, I think the Spurs could remain a competitive team if they lost Duncan and Ginobili provided they re-signed their upcoming free-agents over the next two years, supplement the roster with some smart draft picks and find a way to collect an above-average starting power-forward like Ilyasova, Millsap or Thad Young. But if they want to be a contender after Tim hangs them up, they need to find a way to acquire another star to carry the offense. Unless the team finds a way to acquire a future-star big on a cheap contract, they'll need to prioritize cap space. Simply put, Mills is a piece that you add, not one you build around.

EDIT: I forgot the add that the 2015 cap is projected to be $65 Million, as opposed to $62.5 Million like next year. That gives a little more wiggle room for all scenarios. It still would be an incredibly tight fit to try to go after Gasol while keeping Mills, though. It doesn't change my opinion, but I wanted to be fair.

[Richie]

Well, count me as a person on the other side of that argument. I definitely don't think Mills is worth losing that cap space. He's not a bad player, but he's definitely not a post-Big Three player with a roster as constructed above. I can get on board with Mills being a good tertiary ball-handler who's working his way up to being a decent secondary one, but I don't think he'll ever be good enough to lead his own unit without one or two players next to him with at least as much play-making ability as he has. Unless the Spurs draft or sign a couple of young players to help off the bench, I see a potential signing of Mills to be extremely short-sighted.

Speaking of young players, you forgot to add in three holds for first-rounders (Jean-Charles and whomever the team drafts this and next year). That adds at least a million to your projected cap. I also think you're at least a million under what Green and Diaw will get, and perhaps what Mills would get as well. With those projections in mind, the Spurs would be closer to $10-11 Million if they keep Mills and extend Leonard. That's not enough to get Gasol (and again, I think it'd be a really poor decision to try to run with both Marc and Tiago in the front court), let alone Love, Aldridge or Bosh (Melo isn't even a consideration).

They could save the $3-4 Million by not re-signing Mills, and they could save another $5 Million or so by waiting to re-sign Leonard and not extending him. Doing both would be the only way for the Spurs to be able to afford a vested-max contract, but even if they're aiming for a below-vested-max contract in the $15 Million range, they'll have to make some sacrifices such as continuing to keep picks in Europe and not signing any young players to multi-year deals this off-season. And even with all that, they'd have to not extend Kawhi to be able to have enough cap space if they keep Mills (and Baynes, but people forget the Spurs have a decision with him coming up as well).

Personally, I think the Spurs could remain a competitive team if they lost Duncan and Ginobili provided they re-signed their upcoming free-agents over the next two years, supplement the roster with some smart draft picks and find a way to collect an above-average starting power-forward like Ilyasova, Millsap or Thad Young. But if they want to be a contender after Tim hangs them up, they need to find a way to acquire another star to carry the offense. Unless the team finds a way to acquire a future-star big on a cheap contract, they'll need to prioritize cap space. Simply put, Mills is a piece that you add, not one you build around.

EDIT: I forgot the add that the 2015 cap is projected to be $65 Million, as opposed to $62.5 Million like next year. That gives a little more wiggle room for all scenarios. It still would be an incredibly tight fit to try to go after Gasol while keeping Mills, though. It doesn't change my opinion, but I wanted to be fair.

I agree I don't think Mills is a Manu-esque player who can lead a bench unit, but he will be vital over the next Parker contract to buy him some rest especially with international duties. We will need to pay a backup point guard in some respect, so Mills at $3m isn't really $3m against cap space as we'd have to pay around $1m for a minimum backup point guard instead. Thinking of it that way he seems even better value at $3m.

I disagree that Boris and Green will be $1m more expensive each, I think $5m and $4m are fair values but this is something neither of us can really say with any certainty. If it means giving Boris a 4th year (perhaps partially guaranteed) in order for him to take less per year then it's something worth considering to keep us cap flexible, such as $20m/4yr.

Obviously we're talking about a number of free agents, many of whom might not even become free agents. I think it's very dangerous to go down the Dallas route of prioritising cap space over keeping a winning group. The difference between Mills and Jospeh (or a minimum FA) could be 3 or 4 wins, which could easily be the difference between homecourt against OKC.

I think Aldridge is staying in Portland with Lillard regardless, Bosh is completely dependant on Lebron and anything could happen with Love. One of the reasons I like Marc Gasol is because he won't be chased ahead of those I just mentioned, likely won't command a max deal as he'll be just turning 30, and I think is most likely to leave as Memphis has likely peaked with its current group.

If indeed the cap does go up $2.5m more than I predicted, that can account for a couple rookies we draft/bring over in the coming years and we will still have around $15m which I still think will be enough for Gasol. He is the best fit offensively as he is basically Duncan on the offensive end with his passing and jumpshooting, and is even better defensively. If Splitter can make it work with Duncan he can make it work with Gasol.

[r0drig0lac]

if spurs win the chip, no one is leaving

[Baam]

I disagree that Boris and Green will be $1m more expensive each, I think $5m and $4m are fair values but this is something neither of us can really say with any certainty. If it means giving Boris a 4th year (perhaps partially guaranteed) in order for him to take less per year then it's something worth considering to keep us cap flexible, such as $20m/4yr.

Korver is making 6M/y, Ariza almost 7M and will definitely get more this summer... I don't see how Green is worth 4M on the open market...

Boris is more debatable because of his inconsistent past but even then contenders like the Thunder and the Pacers who need better offensive flow should/could really make a move to get him...

[Mel_13]

I agree I don't think Mills is a Manu-esque player who can lead a bench unit, but he will be vital over the next Parker contract to buy him some rest especially with international duties. We will need to pay a backup point guard in some respect, so Mills at $3m isn't really $3m against cap space as we'd have to pay around $1m for a minimum backup point guard instead. Thinking of it that way he seems even better value at $3m.

I agree with you that Patty is worth a 3M hit cap space and largely for the reasons you cite, but what if he has offers for the full MLE (4yrs/21M)? I just can't see the Spurs matching that number for a backup PG. I expect that 3yrs/10M will be about as far as they're willing to go.

[Mel_13]

Korver is making 6M/y, Ariza almost 7M and will definitely get more this summer... I don't see how Green is worth 4M on the open market...

Boris is more debatable because of his inconsistent past but even then contenders like the Thunder and the Pacers who need better offensive flow should/could really make a move to get him...

Neither of those two contenders can offer more than the MLE for Boris.

I agree that Danny will be worth more than 4M in 2015, assuming a reasonable progression in his game.

[Richie]

I agree with you that Patty is worth a 3M hit cap space and largely for the reasons you cite, but what if he has offers for the full MLE (4yrs/21M)? I just can't see the Spurs matching that number for a backup PG. I expect that 3yrs/10M will be about as far as they're willing to go.

If Patty gets the full MLE in an offer then we have to wave goodbye and wish him luck. I really like him as a player but I think that's too expensive for a backup point guard.

[Cry Havoc]

yes you're right, i don't see patty as a starting pg because he can't defend the westchimps of the league

Please list every single NBA point guard in this league at present who is capable of guarding Westbrook. Thanks.

[Richie]

Korver is making 6M/y, Ariza almost 7M and will definitely get more this summer... I don't see how Green is worth 4M on the open market...


I agree that Danny will be worth more than 4M in 2015, assuming a reasonable progression in his game.

Maybe Danny will get offers of more than $4m, but I'm not sure how much more he is worth. He's a great shooter and defender, but thats it. In truth he has a very limited game when he isn't getting great looks out of our ball movement. I have to say I don't think Ariza or Korver are worth what they are getting paid either, but both are currently in the highest paid year of their current deal (Ariza last, Korver first).

If we got Green to resign for $4m, his highest paid year would be $5m for a total $18m/4yr.

[Chinook]

I agree I don't think Mills is a Manu-esque player who can lead a bench unit, but he will be vital over the next Parker contract to buy him some rest especially with international duties. We will need to pay a backup point guard in some respect, so Mills at $3m isn't really $3m against cap space as we'd have to pay around $1m for a minimum backup point guard instead. Thinking of it that way he seems even better value at $3m.

That's not quite how the cap works (or rather has to work). If the Spurs got the cap-space route, they'd have the room exception ($2.8 Million) to offer to a backup point-guard after signing a big free-agent. If Mills were going to be a free agent in 2015 instead of next year, he could slot right into that spot. It's really just bad timing on his part. If he wants to sign a decreasing $6M/2 deal with player option this off-season, then the Spurs may well be able to play that type of cap manipulation in which Mills opts out next June only to get the same contract under a new definition (with another year attached).

As far as the $1 Million goes, it really depends on how that money is spent. I think there are a couple of players in the draft this year who could make fine backups to Parker. I think spending that money on them would be a good investment of a pick. If you mean the Spurs would actually sign a minimum player like a TJ Ford, I can understand your apprehension. Min guards are hit or miss. Note, though, that the Spurs wouldn't actually have to account for this money in their cap space, as minimum contracts can be signed even after cap room is used.


I disagree that Boris and Green will be $1m more expensive each, I think $5m and $4m are fair values but this is something neither of us can really say with any certainty. If it means giving Boris a 4th year (perhaps partially guaranteed) in order for him to take less per year then it's something worth considering to keep us cap flexible, such as $20m/4yr.

I agree we don't know for sure. Green has another year on his deal, and how he plays in 2014-2015 will have a large bearing on what he gets. If Danny stays where he is now, he's probably looking at something around the MLE. If he becomes more consistent and averages the 12-14 ppg is had post-All-Star break, he could get a bit more. He fades away, he'll probably get a contract similar to what he got in 2012. As far as Diaw is concerned, I could see him doing something similar to what McDyess did, but I don't think he's even thinking about retirement now. I think he'll stay so long as the team wants him to, but I think he'll be getting something in the $6-7M/year range. To each their own, though.


Obviously we're talking about a number of free agents, many of whom might not even become free agents. I think it's very dangerous to go down the Dallas route of prioritising cap space over keeping a winning group. The difference between Mills and Jospeh (or a minimum FA) could be 3 or 4 wins, which could easily be the difference between homecourt against OKC.

I think Aldridge is staying in Portland with Lillard regardless, Bosh is completely dependant on Lebron and anything could happen with Love. One of the reasons I like Marc Gasol is because he won't be chased ahead of those I just mentioned, likely won't command a max deal as he'll be just turning 30, and I think is most likely to leave as Memphis has likely peaked with its current group.

As I mentioned before, Joseph and Mills aren't in the same category, since Cory can be re-signed in 2015 to the room exception without affecting the cap. In general, there are several ways to prevent the backup PG spot from being a weakness. I don't think it's fair to categorize letting one player go as being similar to what Dallas did in 2011. Mills is a nice player, and he's arguably "key" to the Spurs' success. But he's key in the way JJ Barea was, not in the way Tyson Chandler was. Had the Mavs just let Barea go to get another player to put around Dirk and Chandler, I don't think anyone would have been on Dallas' case. In that regard, the Spurs would be letting one player (the eighth man) go to chase a star. That's certainly a gamble worth taking from my vantage point.

I don't think it's clear at all that Aldridge is a Blazer for life. He's been noncommittal as hell about 2015, and if Portland gets bounced so easily again, I think LA would at least test the market. A team like the Spurs, with a winning tradition, a great roster and being down the highway from his hometown, would probably stand a good chance to land him. If Pop still plans to be around, I think the Spurs may well be favorites to land him or Bosh (whose hometown is up the other interstate). Bosh has been in Miami so long that people forget how good of a player he is. He'd be a huge get for the Spurs, a much better one than Gasol due to his ability to play both front-court positions at a high level on both ends. Love's a wildcard who I think will be this generation's Barkley. If he wants to come to the Spurs, fine, but I wouldn't roll out the red carpet for him.


If indeed the cap does go up $2.5m more than I predicted, that can account for a couple rookies we draft/bring over in the coming years and we will still have around $15m which I still think will be enough for Gasol. He is the best fit offensively as he is basically Duncan on the offensive end with his passing and jumpshooting, and is even better defensively. If Splitter can make it work with Duncan he can make it work with Gasol.

I've talked about my views on Gasol-to-the-Spurs many times, so I wont' go on and on about it here. I don't think the Spurs should be looking to get a Duncan replacement in 2015. It just won't work. The team is on the precipice of a fourth evolution since 1997. As Parker ages and Leonard ascends, the team will need different things from their players. They won't be able to run as many PnRs as they do now once Parker stops being as big of a scoring threat. They'll need another offensive staple, and Leonard isos won't cut it, nor will his post-ups if their are two bigs in the lane all the time. They'll need both spacing and a third source of offense from a player who can get his own shot. That's why having an elite offensive big who can also shoot from outside will be important if the Spurs keep the rest of their SL the same. The defense isn't going anywhere with the Medium Three on the roster, but the offense will go south if the Spurs continue down their current path.

[Chinook]

Maybe Danny will get offers of more than $4m, but I'm not sure how much more he is worth. He's a great shooter and defender, but thats it. In truth he has a very limited game when he isn't getting great looks out of our ball movement. I have to say I don't think Ariza or Korver are worth what they are getting paid either, but both are currently in the highest paid year of their current deal (Ariza last, Korver first).

If we got Green to resign for $4m, his highest paid year would be $5m for a total $18m/4yr.

It's more appropriate to say Green's not good at driving and play-making. Great shooting and defending is like 80 percent of the game. There aren't many other wings who are great at that many things, and the ones who are aren't making less than the MLE. I don't think Danny will get Korver or Ariza money, though. It's not that he's not as good as they are, but it's more that the teams that need a player like Green will only have the MLE to offer. I think he'll have his suitors on a $21M/4 deal, and if we're just talking about $750k/year here, I don't see why the Spurs would let him go.

[BackHome]

Free agency is a pipe dream what big time player is going to want to come to San Antonio and play with who? The only way we win again is the same way and that is through the draft and signing good role players.

[Richie]

It's more appropriate to say Green's not good at driving and play-making. Great shooting and defending is like 80 percent of the game. There aren't many other wings who are great at that many things, and the ones who are aren't making less than the MLE. I don't think Danny will get Korver or Ariza money, though. It's not that he's not as good as they are, but it's more that the teams that need a player like Green will only have the MLE to offer. I think he'll have his suitors on a $21M/4 deal, and if we're just talking about $750k/year here, I don't see why the Spurs would let him go.

I agree with you that the Spurs won't let him go for the sake of an extra $750k/yr, but I'm not sure he is a full-MLE caliber player.

I disagree that shooting and defence is 80% of the game though. On the Spurs it might be as we have elite playmakers in Parker and Ginobili and can play inside out with elite passing from Duncan and Diaw, but that isn't true for very many teams.

Most teams need more from their shooting guard than Green can provide, he can't pass the ball under any sort of pressure and is more likely to turn it over than score once he puts the ball on the floor.

[Cry Havoc]

That's not quite how the cap works (or rather has to work). If the Spurs got the cap-space route, they'd have the room exception ($2.8 Million) to offer to a backup point-guard after signing a big free-agent. If Mills were going to be a free agent in 2015 instead of next year, he could slot right into that spot. It's really just bad timing on his part. If he wants to sign a decreasing $6M/2 deal with player option this off-season, then the Spurs may well be able to play that type of cap manipulation in which Mills opts out next June only to get the same contract under a new definition (with another year attached).

As far as the $1 Million goes, it really depends on how that money is spent. I think there are a couple of players in the draft this year who could make fine backups to Parker. I think spending that money on them would be a good investment of a pick. If you mean the Spurs would actually sign a minimum player like a TJ Ford, I can understand your apprehension. Min guards are hit or miss. Note, though, that the Spurs wouldn't actually have to account for this money in their cap space, as minimum contracts can be signed even after cap room is used.



I agree we don't know for sure. Green has another year on his deal, and how he plays in 2014-2015 will have a large bearing on what he gets. If Danny stays where he is now, he's probably looking at something around the MLE. If he becomes more consistent and averages the 12-14 ppg is had post-All-Star break, he could get a bit more. He fades away, he'll probably get a contract similar to what he got in 2012. As far as Diaw is concerned, I could see him doing something similar to what McDyess did, but I don't think he's even thinking about retirement now. I think he'll stay so long as the team wants him to, but I think he'll be getting something in the $6-7M/year range. To each their own, though.



As I mentioned before, Joseph and Mills aren't in the same category, since Cory can be re-signed in 2015 to the room exception without affecting the cap. In general, there are several ways to prevent the backup PG spot from being a weakness. I don't think it's fair to categorize letting one player go as being similar to what Dallas did in 2011. Mills is a nice player, and he's arguably "key" to the Spurs' success. But he's key in the way JJ Barea was, not in the way Tyson Chandler was. Had the Mavs just let Barea go to get another player to put around Dirk and Chandler, I don't think anyone would have been on Dallas' case. In that regard, the Spurs would be letting one player (the eighth man) go to chase a star. That's certainly a gamble worth taking from my vantage point.

I don't think it's clear at all that Aldridge is a Blazer for life. He's been noncommittal as hell about 2015, and if Portland gets bounced so easily again, I think LA would at least test the market. A team like the Spurs, with a winning tradition, a great roster and being down the highway from his hometown, would probably stand a good chance to land him. If Pop still plans to be around, I think the Spurs may well be favorites to land him or Bosh (whose hometown is up the other interstate). Bosh has been in Miami so long that people forget how good of a player he is. He'd be a huge get for the Spurs, a much better one than Gasol due to his ability to play both front-court positions at a high level on both ends. Love's a wildcard who I think will be this generation's Barkley. If he wants to come to the Spurs, fine, but I wouldn't roll out the red carpet for him.



I've talked about my views on Gasol-to-the-Spurs many times, so I wont' go on and on about it here. I don't think the Spurs should be looking to get a Duncan replacement in 2015. It just won't work. The team is on the precipice of a fourth evolution since 1997. As Parker ages and Leonard ascends, the team will need different things from their players. They won't be able to run as many PnRs as they do now once Parker stops being as big of a scoring threat. They'll need another offensive staple, and Leonard isos won't cut it, nor will his post-ups if their are two bigs in the lane all the time. They'll need both spacing and a third source of offense from a player who can get his own shot. That's why having an elite offensive big who can also shoot from outside will be important if the Spurs keep the rest of their SL the same. The defense isn't going anywhere with the Medium Three on the roster, but the offense will go south if the Spurs continue down their current path.

Good post. However, the Spurs DO need to replace Duncan. Not necessarily with another player who plays similar to Tim, but they absolutely need another big. Marc Gasol would be phenomenal in that role, even if he can't do the things Tim did.

[Chinook]

I agree with you that the Spurs won't let him go for the sake of an extra $750k/yr, but I'm not sure he is a full-MLE caliber player.

I disagree that shooting and defence is 80% of the game though. On the Spurs it might be as we have elite playmakers in Parker and Ginobili and can play inside out with elite passing from Duncan and Diaw, but that isn't true for very many teams.

Most teams need more from their shooting guard than Green can provide, he can't pass the ball under any sort of pressure and is more likely to turn it over than score once he puts the ball on the floor.

He's not actually more likely to turn the ball over than score when he dribbles. I imagine you're just being hyperbolic, but provided your aren't I wanted to clear that up. He gets into trouble if he's blitzed before he can pass the ball to the man he expected to be open. He has an odd way of bringing up the ball that lets players swipe at it before he can bring it up to shoot. Those are true things. But what's also true is that Green was a much-improved finisher this season, and he was fine dribbling in set plays or even when he had to improvise, provided his target remained open. I think he'll be more confident shooting off the dribble from mid-range next season. I don't he'll ever be an above-average scorer, but he'll be able to do enough to compliment Parker and Leonard.

Even with his limitations, though, I don't think he'll be without strong suitors. It's true that there are a lot of teams that need more from their wings on offense, there are a select few which do not/will not by 2015. Those will be OKC, Miami if they stay together (wherever James goes if the Heat break up), Portland, the Clippers, and potentially teams like Chicago and Indiana depending on how their rosters evolve over the next year. Those are teams that need elite shooting and defense and have the stars to draw attention away from Green so he can get open. Will it be the same as it is with the Spurs, no. But that doesn't tend to depress a player's market much at all.

Think how much OKC could have used Green instead of Sef in the WCF. That's well worth the extra bit over what Sefolosha got.

[Chinook]

Good post. However, the Spurs DO need to replace Duncan. Not necessarily with another player who plays similar to Tim, but they absolutely need another big. Marc Gasol would be phenomenal in that role, even if he can't do the things Tim did.

What I am saying is that they Spurs' system will not be the same when Tim retires. The Spurs can't just plug in another big and expect everything to be the keep working for years. While Gasol may well be the best analog to Old Duncan in the league today, Old Duncan 2.0 won't cut it with Old Parker and Aging Splitter. We all hope Leonard takes more load on the offense, but the poor spacing from having two centers would dramatically reduce his effectiveness.

Instead, the Spurs need their next PF to be slanted toward offense to balance out the SL, which will be fine defensively with Lock n Lock and Splitter. That's why my preferred targets are all PFs with range and the demonstrated ability to carry an offense. Bosh and Aldridge are actually pretty decent defenders in their own rights, so it's not like the Spurs would have a sieve at that spot. But the offensive upside is necessary, in my mind. I simply don't think Parker and Leonard can carry the offense to a title without at least another accomplished scorer next to them.

[Baam]

Brook Lopez has also a nice offensive game and a player option in 2015 but there's some health concerns with him.

[Raven]

i expect patty to cost around 8 per year and people are making plans with green costing 5... Obviously people think the other teams will let us resign our young studs for peanuts and overpay their locker room cancers forever.. Let me say this: if we win the title, double up every salary for every player under 30 that is going toward free agency.

[Chinook]

Brook Lopez has also a nice offensive game and a player option in 2015 but there's some health concerns with him.

He's pretty much Al Jefferson 2.0. While I think (if healthy) he'd be a better get than Gasol, I still don't think he'd be what the Spurs would need. Lopez needs to be next to an Ibaka-like defensive big. Splitter-like defensive bigs are best suited to more mobile offensive PFs like the ones I've listed so they don't mess up spacing.

[Raven]

Free agency is a pipe dream what big time player is going to want to come to San Antonio and play with who? The only way we win again is the same way and that is through the draft and signing good role players.

word.

[Raven]

Please list every single NBA point guard in this league at present who is capable of guarding Westbrook. Thanks.

look you're one of the three guys that were hyping belinelli's d, so i have 0 interest to talk D with you.

[Richie]

i expect patty to cost around 8 per year and people are making plans with green costing 5... Obviously people think the other teams will let us resign our young studs for peanuts and overpay their locker room cancers forever.. Let me say this: if we win the title, double up every salary for every player under 30 that is going toward free agency.

If someone offers Patty $8m/yr, then wave goodbye. You can't commit that much of the cap to a backup point guard. If he gets that offer I'll be ecstatic for him, but he isn't worth anything near that number. Jeff Teague and Jrue Holiday are getting that kind of money and are far better players.

[Raven]

If someone offers Patty $8m/yr, then wave goodbye. You can't commit that much of the cap to a backup point guard. If he gets that offer I'll be ecstatic for him, but he isn't worth anything near that number. Jeff Teague and Jrue Holiday are getting that kind of money and are far better players.

if a team signs him, it's because they view him as a starter, that much is clear.

[Mel_13]

i expect patty to cost around 8 per year

Would you be interested in making a wager on the amount of Patty's next contract?

[Cry Havoc]

look you're one of the three guys that were hyping belinelli's d, so i have 0 interest to talk D with you.

Please list every single NBA point guard in this league at present who is capable of guarding Westbrook. Thanks.

[Richie]

What I am saying is that they Spurs' system will not be the same when Tim retires. The Spurs can't just plug in another big and expect everything to be the keep working for years. While Gasol may well be the best analog to Old Duncan in the league today, Old Duncan 2.0 won't cut it with Old Parker and Aging Splitter. We all hope Leonard takes more load on the offense, but the poor spacing from having two centers would dramatically reduce his effectiveness.

I see what you're saying here, but if the poor spacing isn't an issue with Duncan/Splitter why would it be an issue with Gasol/Splitter? Bosh and Love have a 3 point shot so I'll grant you them, but Gasol is as good a mid range shooter as Aldridge and neither has a reliable 3 ball so I don't see what we gain from Aldridge offensively.

Defensively Gasol is the best of the 4, and Love especially is a terrible defender so we would really struggle with him next to Splitter as neither can block shots. Bosh is the only one who can give more on offence than Gasol and is a decent defender, but if the trade off is Gasols elite defence for Boshs 3 point shot I go with the Spaniard every time.

Of course this is still assuming we still have Diaw, so we'd have the option to stay big with Gasol/Splitter against teams like Dallas and Portland and go small with Gasol/Diaw against OKC and Miami and be great defensively in both instances. I don't see how any other player keeps us as an elite defensive club going both big and small.

[Raven]

Please list every single NBA point guard in this league at present who is capable of guarding Westbrook. Thanks.

aren't you the guy who said westchimp is slower than parker and that he can't go past him?

[keywester]

Would you be interested in making a wager on the amount of Patty's next contract?

I'm sitting here speaking with my good fiend Robert Mondavi about the possibility of Mills getting as much as 8 mil next year as a starter. I think he could get maybe half of that, but Robert believes he could get it if he goes to the 76's and shares it with Brett (joke..Joke :toast)

[Raven]

Would you be interested in making a wager on the amount of Patty's next contract?

hm state your terms..

[Mel_13]

hm state your terms..

We can base it on the confirmed first year salary of Patty's next contract (reputable source like Woj or Sham).

If the first year salary is 7.5M or more, you win.

Less than 7.5M, I win.

Loser doesn't post anywhere on SpursTalk from the day the contract is signed until the day the 2015 NBA Finals end.

[Chinook]

I see what you're sayinghere, but if the poor spacing isn't an issue with Duncan/Splitter why would itbe an issue with Gasol/Splitter? Bosh and Love have a 3 point shot so I'll grant you them, but Gasol is as good a mid range shooter as Aldridge and neither has a reliable 3 ball so I don't see what we gain from Aldridgeoffensively.

Spacing IS a major issue with the current Spurs offense. That's why Diaw is starting right now. It's going to be an even bigger one as Parker ages, as he won't be able to beat defenses as easily and will need more space. Leonard's offensive evolution depends on his having space to drive as well as space to post-up his defender. He doesn't need spacing to be a spot-up shooter like Green, but that type of Kawhi can't be a legitimate second option on a contender.


Defensively Gasol is the best of the 4, and Love especially is a terrible defender so we would really struggle with him next to Splitter as neither can block shots. Bosh is the only one who can give more on offence than Gasol and is a decent defender, but if the trade off is Gasols elite defence for Boshs 3 point shot I go with the Spaniard every time.

I don't think you realize exactly how much better each of those players are than Gasol offensively. Marc scored 23.3 points per 100 possessions this season. Bosh scored 26.6 Aldridge scored 32.5. Love scored 35.4. It's really not close. As far as actual skills go, Gasol is no where near Aldridge's level as a shooter. Marc (from what I can recall) is a shooter in the Duncan mold, a guy who can catch-and-shoot from the elbow. Aldridge is much more dynamic, being able to shoot in PnP situations, off screens and in isolation. A full third of LA's attempts are long-twos, and he makes 42 percent of them. Gasol shoots 41 percent on long-twos, but they comprise only a seventh of his offense. I guess the best way to put it is that Gasol is a center who can shoot from midrange whereas Aldridge is a power-forward who can play a little center in a pinch.

As far as Bosh and Love go, being able to shoot from three is considerably offensively than what Gasol gives. Sure, Marc can pass and help you out in the post, but that isn't going to be a huge help on the Spurs' roster.


Of course this is still assuming we still have Diaw, so we'd have the option to stay big with Gasol/Splitter against teams like Dallas and Portland and go small with Gasol/Diaw against OKC and Miami and be great defensively in both instances. I don't see how any other player keeps us as an elite defensive club going both big and small.

I don't think you're future-proofing at all. I can't see Diaw being a legitimate option for a mobile four for more than a couple of more years. He's been pretty poor in this post-season guarding small-ball fours and perimeter players who aren't Wade. His play-making ability and post game should be there for years. He should still be able to stretch the floor. But he's not going to be able to do defensively what the Spurs will need him to, and offensively he won't be aggressive enough to make up for Parker's decline.

[G-Dawgg]

I mentioned this a week or so ago, but I think if Duncan retires, I think our core could still be ok with Fatty Diaw moving into the Starting lineup.

[Cry Havoc]

aren't you the guy who said westchimp is slower than parker and that he can't go past him?


Please list every single NBA point guard in this league at present who is capable of guarding Westbrook. Thanks.

[Raven]

^ well none, but there's different levels of being owned.

[tholdren]

Maybe Danny will get offers of more than $4m, but I'm not sure how much more he is worth. He's a great shooter and defender, but thats it. In truth he has a very limited game when he isn't getting great looks out of our ball movement. I have to say I don't think Ariza or Korver are worth what they are getting paid either, but both are currently in the highest paid year of their current deal (Ariza last, Korver first).

If we got Green to resign for $4m, his highest paid year would be $5m for a total $18m/4yr.

I got blasted for saying that about green. Glad to here someone else with a brain say something similar. I saw you post on Marc, do you think he would fit in our offense?

[tholdren]

Spacing IS a major issue with the current Spurs offense. That's why Diaw is starting right now. It's going to be an even bigger one as Parker ages, as he won't be able to beat defenses as easily and will need more space. Leonard's offensive evolution depends on his having space to drive as well as space to post-up his defender. He doesn't need spacing to be a spot-up shooter like Green, but that type of Kawhi can't be a legitimate second option on a contender.



I don't think you realize exactly how much better each of those players are than Gasol offensively. Marc scored 23.3 points per 100 possessions this season. Bosh scored 26.6 Aldridge scored 32.5. Love scored 35.4. It's really not close. As far as actual skills go, Gasol is no where near Aldridge's level as a shooter. Marc (from what I can recall) is a shooter in the Duncan mold, a guy who can catch-and-shoot from the elbow. Aldridge is much more dynamic, being able to shoot in PnP situations, off screens and in isolation. A full third of LA's attempts are long-twos, and he makes 42 percent of them. Gasol shoots 41 percent on long-twos, but they comprise only a seventh of his offense. I guess the best way to put it is that Gasol is a center who can shoot from midrange whereas Aldridge is a power-forward who can play a little center in a pinch.

As far as Bosh and Love go, being able to shoot from three is considerably offensively than what Gasol gives. Sure, Marc can pass and help you out in the post, but that isn't going to be a huge help on the Spurs' roster.



I don't think you're future-proofing at all. I can't see Diaw being a legitimate option for a mobile four for more than a couple of more years. He's been pretty poor in this post-season guarding small-ball fours and perimeter players who aren't Wade. His play-making ability and post game should be there for years. He should still be able to stretch the floor. But he's not going to be able to do defensively what the Spurs will need him to, and offensively he won't be aggressive enough to make up for Parker's decline.

Im along the same lines as you, it seems, on Gasol. Worried about his anti-athleticism and slow ass footwork. Seems like Splitter but a little better and a lot more $. But then I started thinking how he averages about 16 ppg with really no offense, and thought I might be shocked at what he does high tempo with good ball movement. I mean he can pass it too. And I think he's a million times the finisher Tiago is.... I dont know that I would spend the house on him.

[Richie]

Spacing IS a major issue with the current Spurs offense. That's why Diaw is starting right now. It's going to be an even bigger one as Parker ages, as he won't be able to beat defenses as easily and will need more space. Leonard's offensive evolution depends on his having space to drive as well as space to post-up his defender. He doesn't need spacing to be a spot-up shooter like Green, but that type of Kawhi can't be a legitimate second option on a contender.



I think you are overrating Parkers future decline, he's only just turned 32. The guy still has at least 4 years left playing at a top level, he can afford to lose a lot of his quickness and still be fast enough to get in to the paint and finish. If Parker falls apart the way your predicting and isn't a threat to drive and finish, we might as well blow it up because we won't have a chance.

I disagree completely that spacing is as big an issue as you're making out, because we finished with the best record in the NBA and won two playoff series starting Timmy and Tiago.





I don't think you realize exactly how much better each of those players are than Gasol offensively. Marc scored 23.3 points per 100 possessions this season. Bosh scored 26.6 Aldridge scored 32.5. Love scored 35.4. It's really not close. As far as actual skills go, Gasol is no where near Aldridge's level as a shooter. Marc (from what I can recall) is a shooter in the Duncan mold, a guy who can catch-and-shoot from the elbow. Aldridge is much more dynamic, being able to shoot in PnP situations, off screens and in isolation. A full third of LA's attempts are long-twos, and he makes 42 percent of them. Gasol shoots 41 percent on long-twos, but they comprise only a seventh of his offense. I guess the best way to put it is that Gasol is a center who can shoot from midrange whereas Aldridge is a power-forward who can play a little center in a pinch.

As far as Bosh and Love go, being able to shoot from three is considerably offensively than what Gasol gives. Sure, Marc can pass and help you out in the post, but that isn't going to be a huge help on the Spurs' roster.




I think that is a horrible use of stats. I don't know why you used per 100 possessions rather than per game or per 36, but it makes no difference. The reason Aldridge and Love scored more is because of the much higher usage rate. They took 29 and 25 FGA per 100 possessions respectively, compared to Gasols 19. In fact, Gasol shot a higher FG% than both Love and Aldridge this year. Bosh had a higher FG% and points but lets be real here, he gets to play next to Lebron which helps.

I don't know where you got the idea that only a seventh of Gasols shots are long twos, this year 23% of his FGA were between 16ft and the 3 point line. He had a bad year from there, only hitting 37% but that is likely due to him having injuries as he has averaged 45% from that range over the previous 3 years.

I flat out disagree that getting someone able to shoot the 3 is such a priority when we have Diaw who you could pair with either Splitter or Gasol if you require to stretch the floor. Gasol/Diaw is hugely superior to Splitter/Love or Splitter/Bosh defensively and spaces the floor just as well. You'd also have the option of Gasol/Splitter against bigger teams when floor spacing isn't such an issue, as we saw against Portland and Dallas when we had Splitter/Duncan playing together for big minutes, a big defensive lineup that wouldn't be possible with Bosh or expecially Love.

IMO there's simply no argument for Aldridge over Gasol because they can do the same things offensively, Gasol shot the mid range better from 2010-13 (i.e. excluding this year), and Gasol is so far ahead of Aldridge defensively.

Love has the 3 point shot (although he shoots a pretty mediocre percentage) but we wouldn't be able to stop anyone in the paint with Splitter/Love or Love/Diaw, and that 3 point shot is not worth all the points we'd give up.



I don't think you're future-proofing at all. I can't see Diaw being a legitimate option for a mobile four for more than a couple of more years. He's been pretty poor in this post-season guarding small-ball fours and perimeter players who aren't Wade. His play-making ability and post game should be there for years. He should still be able to stretch the floor. But he's not going to be able to do defensively what the Spurs will need him to, and offensively he won't be aggressive enough to make up for Parker's decline.

What is it that Diaw won't be able to do defensively that you think the others could do alongside Splitter? You think Bosh or Aldridge could guard these small ball fours/wings better than Diaw? The reality is that whoever we bring in would play significant minutes with Diaw regardless so any decline he may have would be better solved putting a former DPOY behind him than the other power forwards you mention.

Edit: Sorry thats a damn long post

[Richie]

I got blasted for saying that about green. Glad to here someone else with a brain say something similar. I saw you post on Marc, do you think he would fit in our offense?

Gasol would fit seemlessly in our system post Duncan, he can do everything Duncan does for us right now and is a better defender.

[Mugen]

Gasol would fit seemlessly in our system post Duncan, he can do everything Duncan does for us right now and is a better defender.

Don't you dare cheer for the Spurs tomorrow tbh.

[Richie]

Don't you dare cheer for the Spurs tomorrow tbh.

Hey I love Duncan but he isn't the defender he once was, he got blown by at least 3 times closing out to Bosh on the perimeter and Bosh got dunks every time.

[Mugen]

Hey I love Duncan but he isn't the defender he once was, he got blown by at least 3 times closing out to Bosh on the perimeter and Bosh got dunks every time.

Even at this stage in their careers, he's a better defender than Fat Gasol tbh.

[Raven]

We can base it on the confirmed first year salary of Patty's next contract (reputable source like Woj or Sham).

If the first year salary is 7.5M or more, you win.

Less than 7.5M, I win.

Loser doesn't post anywhere on SpursTalk from the day the contract is signed until the day the 2015 NBA Finals end.

i'm not interested in making you stop posting.

[Chinook]

I think you are overrating Parkers future decline, he's only just turned 32. The guy still has at least 4 years left playing at a top level, he can afford to lose a lot of his quickness and still be fast enough to get in to the paint and finish. If Parker falls apart the way your predicting and isn't a threat to drive and finish, we might as well blow it up because we won't have a chance.

I disagree completely that spacing is as big an issue as you're making out, because we finished with the best record in the NBA and won two playoff series starting Timmy and Tiago.

The only reason why spacing didn't doom the Spurs this season is because Leonard's three-point shot returned. Before that, the SL's offense was horrible. As Kawhi's offensive role grows, the spacing will get worse, because he won't be standing on the perimeter as much. Some of this can be fixed with Parker's three-pointer seemingly coming back after a decade's hiatus, but it there would still be issues with Leonard, Splitter and Gasol in the paint.

As far as this season goes, even with Kawhi's shot coming back, the Spurs' first unit with Splitter/Duncan struggled to generate good looks against Dallas, OKC (post-Ibaka's return) and to a lesser extent Miami. Portland's defense is gimmicky and awful, so it's no surprise the Spurs scored on them. Regardless, I think you're understating how much Parker has already declined, and more importantly, how much the offense will decline if it has to depend solely on Old Parker's penetration. Right now, the Spurs have Ginobili and Duncan to fall back on. But if the fall-back options are a mediocre Gasol and a misused Leonard, the Spurs are done. However, if the options are Aldridge and a correctly used Leonard, then Parker would be fine for a few more years.


I think that is a horrible use of stats. I don't know why you used per 100 possessions rather than per game or per 36, but it makes no difference. The reason Aldridge and Love scored more is because of the much higher usage rate. They took 29 and 25 FGA per 100 possessions respectively, compared to Gasols 19. In fact, Gasol shot a higher FG% than both Love and Aldridge this year. Bosh had a higher FG% and points but lets be real here, he gets to play next to Lebron which helps.

I don't know where you got the idea that only a seventh of Gasols shots are long twos, this year 23% of his FGA were between 16ft and the 3 point line. He had a bad year from there, only hitting 37% but that is likely due to him having injuries as he has averaged 45% from that range over the previous 3 years.

Yeah, I was looking at Gasol's career shooting stats by mistake. It ends up about even, though. Aldridge is much more of an outside threat than Gasol is. Anyhow, it would make sense that Marc's FG% is higher than the others, seeing as he's a center who plays closer to the rim while the others are true PFs. That reinforces what I was saying earlier. Gasol is a five, and Splitter is a five. They don't make a good combo going forward.


I flat out disagree that getting someone able to shoot the 3 is such a priority when we have Diaw who you could pair with either Splitter or Gasol if you require to stretch the floor. Gasol/Diaw is hugely superior to Splitter/Love or Splitter/Bosh defensively and spaces the floor just as well. You'd also have the option of Gasol/Splitter against bigger teams when floor spacing isn't such an issue, as we saw against Portland and Dallas when we had Splitter/Duncan playing together for big minutes, a big defensive lineup that wouldn't be possible with Bosh or expecially Love.

IMO there's simply no argument for Aldridge over Gasol because they can do the same things offensively, Gasol shot the mid range better from 2010-13 (i.e. excluding this year), and Gasol is so far ahead of Aldridge defensively.

Love has the 3 point shot (although he shoots a pretty mediocre percentage) but we wouldn't be able to stop anyone in the paint with Splitter/Love or Love/Diaw, and that 3 point shot is not worth all the points we'd give up.

I think you're overrating Gasol's defense again. It's not revolutionary. You can very much argue that he's not much better than Splitter (who's the best defensive big on the team right now). His mediocre offense doesn't get offset, which is a primary reason why Memphis struggles to beat teams that aren't poorly coached. The Spurs' three best overall defenders are still young; they don't need to prioritize adding another defender over fixing their offense.

As far as overall impact goes, I would rate the four players in this order: Bosh, Aldridge, Gasol and Love. Bosh is easily the best of the four, but he's older and doesn't really want to leave Miami. Aldridge is great offensively and decent defensively. Gasol is a freaking center. Love is a glass cannon, but I'd take him on the Spurs, since they have the defensive pieces to put around hm.


On that last part, Diaw is losing his ability to be a mobile four pretty quickly. As I said, he struggled against small-ball fours defensively this post-season. He's also a little too small to guard shooting fours like Dirk and Aldridge. While he's a really good player who is very valuable, he is on the decline from an athletic standpoint, and it actually is important.

[Cry Havoc]

^ well none, but there's different levels of being owned.

Thank you for admitting that. So your argument that Patty Mills isn't a true PG because he can't stay in front of Westbrook, when WB lights up every other PG in the league is kind of hilarious.

"This guy can't guard KD so he's not a legit SF." :lol

[Cry Havoc]

Personally I'd be happy with either Gasol or Aldridge. I think Pop could make either one of them a massively productive member of our team.

[Mel_13]

i'm not interested in making you stop posting.

:rolleyes

You asked for terms, which suggests you had interest in a wager.

I provided terms.

If they are not acceptable, suggest others. Otherwise, I'll accept your lame response as tacit admission that you realized the absurdity of your post.

[Quasar]

Mills is not getting 8 mil a year. I don't see anyone throwing Lin type of money for a guy that has been more of a spot up shooter in the Spurs system and hasn't shown he could be the starting PG on a team night in and night out. At most, he will get the full MLE.

Speedy Claxton left after proving himself in 2003. $10m, three years.

Plenty of money for that time although Claxton was a better pg than mills. Probably the best Spurs backup pg after Tony Parker in his rookie year.

Mills is definitely the better scorer nevertheless.

[Cry Havoc]

Speedy Claxton left after proving himself in 2003. $10m, three years.

Plenty of money for that time although Claxton was a better pg than mills. Probably the best Spurs backup pg after Tony Parker in his rookie year.

Mills is definitely the better scorer nevertheless.

3.3 mil a year is a FAR cry from 8mil a season. That's big money. I just don't see it.

[tholdren]

3.3 mil a year is a FAR cry from 8mil a season. That's big money. I just don't see it.

No way he gets 8 million a year. He will get 4-6 though.

[Raven]

Thank you for admitting that. So your argument that Patty Mills isn't a true PG because he can't stay in front of Westbrook, when WB lights up every other PG in the league is kind of hilarious.

"This guy can't guard KD so he's not a legit SF." :lol

first off i wasn't specifically talking about westbrook and being owned here and there is very different than having a physical impossibility to contest any shot from a player.

[Raven]

:rolleyes

You asked for terms, which suggests you had interest in a wager.

I provided terms.

If they are not acceptable, suggest others. Otherwise, I'll accept your lame response as tacit admission that you realized the absurdity of your post.

my terms : if i win, you pay 50 bucks, if you win i stop posting until you said.

[99 Problems]

Patty invented the 'ring alley oop' that allowed Kawhi to monster the Heat. He deserves a few bucks for that.

[Nero5]

Patty is good at:
Team cohesiveness - he was great in the locker room in Portland and clearly has brought such skills to the spurs - witness the 'frogging' and selfies etc in the Spurs this past 12 months.
Public relations - he is a great interview and has always been a good club rep.
Showing value of hard work and hence leadership - Sure he's not a leader on the floor, but showing up cut, fit and ready to play is motivating to other bench players.
Improvement - Patty has always improved every year. His stats this year are great and he has been much more consistent.
Trust - he has been a great professional in his time so far. Pop clearly trusts him as Diaw said post game that two guys have a green light to shoot DG and Patty.

[Mel_13]

my terms : if i win, you pay 50 bucks, if you win i stop posting until you said.

Those terms are acceptable to me.

To restate:

This wager concerns the first year salary of Patty Mill's next contract (reputable source like Woj or Sham).

If the first year salary is 7.5 million dollars or more, you win.

Less than 7.5 million dollars, I win.

If you win, I pay you $50.00

If I win, you don't post anywhere on SpursTalk from the day the contract is signed until the day the 2015 NBA Finals end.

Acknowledge this post to accept the wager.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Mid-season I suggested we should make re-signing Diaw and Mills a priority as they perfectly fit the Spurs system, Mills is a young core piece still improving, and Diaw is a perfect vet with diverse skills.

At that time I hoped Mills might take 12-14/3yrs, and Diaw 10/2, but given their superb seasons how about Mills 20/4 and Diaw 15/3. Diaw might turn out to be an overpay in the final year but that he's worth 7.5 the way he fits the system, so who cares?

[Dverde]

Mills is not coming back. Someone will offer him much more in money and role. 3 year/15 mil deal as a sixth man. I think Lakers, Magic, or 76ers. Spurs will spend their cash on leonard and diaw.

[TheGreatYacht]

Mills is not coming back. Someone will offer him much more in money and role. 3 year/15 mil deal as a sixth man. I think Lakers, Magic, or 76ers. Spurs will spend their cash on leonard and diaw.
No lol, Kawhi will still be on his rookie contract next season. 2015-2016 is when he'll get paid $$$

[Mel_13]

Mid-season I suggested we should make re-signing Diaw and Mills a priority as they perfectly fit the Spurs system, Mills is a young core piece still improving, and Diaw is a perfect vet with diverse skills.

At that time I hoped Mills might take 12-14/3yrs, and Diaw 10/2, but given their superb seasons how about Mills 20/4 and Diaw 15/3. Diaw might turn out to be an overpay in the final year but that he's worth 7.5 the way he fits the system, so who cares?

I think that they'll have to give Boris the 3rd year and the total deal could be closer to 20M than to 15M. They simply have to keep Boris if they intend to contend in 2014-15.

Patty could very well command 4yrs/20M on the market. I don't believe he'll get anywhere near that much from the Spurs. I'm sure that both sides will want to continue the relationship, but Patty will have to take less than market value to remain a Spur.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Speedy Claxton left after proving himself in 2003. $10m, three years.

Plenty of money for that time although Claxton was a better pg than mills. Probably the best Spurs backup pg after Tony Parker in his rookie year.

Mills is definitely the better scorer nevertheless.

Mills is the best backup PG the Spurs have had since Speedy, even though they are completely different styles of player. I saw Speedy's near-triple double live at AT&T IIRC. :)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Mills is not coming back. Someone will offer him much more in money and role. 3 year/15 mil deal as a sixth man. I think Lakers, Magic, or 76ers. Spurs will spend their cash on leonard and diaw.

We don't need to pay Kawhi this year, but when we do he'll get near max. He's a young Scottie Pippen... who knows whether he'll ever he a HoFer, but he's the future of the franchise and we will pay him as such.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I think that they'll have to give Boris the 3rd year and the total deal could be closer to 20M than to 15M. They simply have to keep Boris if they intend to contend in 2014-15.

Patty could very well command 4yrs/20M on the market. I don't believe he'll get anywhere near that much from the Spurs. I'm sure that both sides will want to continue the relationship, but Patty will have to take less than market value to remain a Spur.

People see Patty as a 6th man atm because he's playing that role, but if the franchise see him as heir to TP 20/4 would be cheap. He runs the Australian national team, thrives under pressure, I think we'll pay up to 6 a year to keep him and hope he has another level to step up. I think maybe be can (but then he comes from my home town, Canberra, so I may be a little biased ;) ).

I think the Big 3 play one more year, then Tim and Manu retire, and TP is offered the choice of a trade or committing to the rebuild as the vet leader. The core going forward looks like Leonard, Green, Mills, Splitter, Baynes, Diaw. Add some smart young athletes, and a vet big FA like Marc Gasol, and that's still a playoff team.

[TheGreatYacht]

People see Patty as a 6th man atm because he's playing that role, but if the franchise see him as heir to TP 20/4 would be cheap. He runs the Australian national team, thrives under pressure, I think we'll pay up to 6 a year to keep him and hope he has another level to step up. I think maybe be can (but then he comes from my home town, Canberra, so I may be a little biased ;) ).

I think the Big 3 play one more year, then Tim and Manu retire, and TP is offered the choice of a trade or committing to the rebuild as the vet leader. The core going forward looks like Leonard, Green, Mills, Splitter, Baynes, Diaw. Add some smart young athletes, and a vet big FA like Marc Gasol, and that's still a playoff team.
I agree :toast He already proved he can win games when the Big 3 sits out

[Mel_13]

People see Patty as a 6th man atm because he's playing that role, but if the franchise see him as heir to TP 20/4 would be cheap. He runs the Australian national team, thrives under pressure, I think we'll pay up to 6 a year to keep him and hope he has another level to step up. I think maybe be can (but then he comes from my home town, Canberra, so I may be a little biased ;) ).

I think the Big 3 play one more year, then Tim and Manu retire, and TP is offered the choice of a trade or committing to the rebuild as the vet leader. The core going forward looks like Leonard, Green, Mills, Splitter, Baynes, Diaw. Add some smart young athletes, and a vet big FA like Marc Gasol, and that's still a playoff team.

We'll see. Personally, I'd love to see them keep Patty. He's a perfect Spur.

IMO, even if they see him as a future starter, Tony still projects to be the starter for all or most of a 4yr contract for Patty. I don't see the Spurs paying that sort of salary for a backup PG.

We should have an answer by mid-July.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We'll see. Personally, I'd love to see them keep Patty. He's a perfect Spur.

IMO, even if they see him as a future starter, Tony still projects to be the starter for all or most of a 4yr contract for Patty. I don't see the Spurs paying that sort of salary for a backup PG.

We should have an answer by mid-July.

Not sure TP will still be effective at 36. His body has taken a huge pounding and it's starting to show. If he sticks around I reckon he might hand the starting role to Mills in a year or two and play a Manu-type role tearing up 2nd units. We'll see, but one thing I know: the Spurs will make the right decisions about these players. The way they built this team to fit the new-style NBA was masterful (although the 2008-11 transition years were, at times, painful).

[Mel_13]

Not sure TP will still be effective at 36. His body has taken a huge pounding and it's starting to show. If he sticks around I reckon he might hand the starting role to Mills in a year or two and play a Manu-type role tearing up 2nd units. We'll see, but one thing I know: the Spurs will make the right decisions about these players. The way they built this team to fit the new-style NBA was masterful (although the 2008-11 transition years were, at times, painful).

I definitely agree with you there. The transformation of the roster from the 2011 to 2014 has been remarkable.

My speculation is that Boris will get a 3 yr deal and Tony will get a 2 yr extension, thus guaranteeing that those two will play together through 2016-2017 (and lining up those two deals with Splitter's contract).

Patty is the hardest for me to predict. He fits perfectly on the team, but his performance this year makes it likely that he will receive offers to be played and paid as a starter. I still believe that Patty will have to sacrifice a significant amount of potential earnings to remain a Spur.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I definitely agree with you there. The transformation of the roster from the 2011 to 2014 has been remarkable.

My speculation is that Boris will get a 3 yr deal and Tony will get a 2 yr extension, thus guaranteeing that those two will play together through 2016-2017 (and lining up those two deals with Splitter's contract).

Patty is the hardest for me to predict. He fits perfectly on the team, but his performance this year makes it likely that he will receive offers to be played and paid as a starter. I still believe that Patty will have to sacrifice a significant amount of potential earnings to remain a Spur.

Good call on Boris and TP. :tu

You may be right about Patty, but I hope he has the good sense to take around 20/4 and stay to win some more. ;)

[Mel_13]

Good call on Boris and TP. :tu

You may be right about Patty, but I hope he has the good sense to take around 20/4 and stay to win some more. ;)

:flag:

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

:flag: :flag: :flag:

Wish I was in SA right now!

[TheGreatYacht]

I definitely agree with you there. The transformation of the roster from the 2011 to 2014 has been remarkable.

My speculation is that Boris will get a 3 yr deal and Tony will get a 2 yr extension, thus guaranteeing that those two will play together through 2016-2017 (and lining up those two deals with Splitter's contract).

Patty is the hardest for me to predict. He fits perfectly on the team, but his performance this year makes it likely that he will receive offers to be played and paid as a starter. I still believe that Patty will have to sacrifice a significant amount of potential earnings to remain a Spur.
:tu

[Raven]

Those terms are acceptable to me.

To restate:

This wager concerns the first year salary of Patty Mill's next contract (reputable source like Woj or Sham).

If the first year salary is 7.5 million dollars or more, you win.

Less than 7.5 million dollars, I win.

If you win, I pay you $50.00

If I win, you don't post anywhere on SpursTalk from the day the contract is signed until the day the 2015 NBA Finals end.

Acknowledge this post to accept the wager.

wait for the finals to end though, cause if he doesn't end on a high note, that no way he get's it.

[Quasar]

Mills is the best backup PG the Spurs have had since Speedy, even though they are completely different styles of player. I saw Speedy's near-triple double live at AT&T IIRC. :)

You mean you can't remember?!

Mate I thought you were serious about the Spurs!

;)


Agree Mills is probably the best in a long time. I thought Nick Van Exel would have brought what Mills does.... Mills brings the goods although his vision still needs more improvement. He may very well become the next Parker. Parker never had such a sweet shot at 25 though!

[Mel_13]

wait for the finals to end though, cause if he doesn't end on a high note, that no way he get's it.

:lol

I suppose backtracking is better than welshing.

[Raven]

:lol

I suppose backtracking is better than welshing.

well it's not like i ever said it was a sure thing, which is normal considering i don't believe in the slightest he is worth that money :lol..

[Mel_13]

well it's not like i ever said it was a sure thing, which is normal considering i don't believe in the slightest he is worth that money :lol..

:rolleyes

You were willing to bet on it and then you backed out.

Behavior that is wholly consistent with your posting style and not the least bit surprising.

Just admit that you're clueless on this subject and we'll call it a day.

[CGD]

Boris is a no brainer, but Mills is gone is he receives a contract north of what Green got a few years ago. Spurs value that spark plug off the bench, but as we saw will Neal last summer they won't over pay. I bet they see Belli, with a year under his belt, playing that role next year if mills leaves.

[tholdren]

Boris is a no brainer, but Mills is gone is he receives a contract north of what Green got a few years ago. Spurs value that spark plug off the bench, but as we saw will Neal last summer they won't over pay. I bet they see Belli, with a year under his belt, playing that role next year if mills leaves.

Good call. what do they do with boner?

[Quasar]

Gasol would fit seemlessly in our system post Duncan, he can do everything Duncan does for us right now and is a better defender.
Agree that Marc G would be an awesome player but my dream would be for Dirk to come to the spurs after Duncan and win it again.

I've come to really admire his play after all the rivalry.

Strong rebounder and unstoppable on offense.

A new age Larry Bird.

[CGD]

Good call. what do they do with boner?
Depends on what happens with Boris. May not make me popular here, but I don't mind bonner staying on a bit longer in a similar role to what he has this past season. Would love him in a front office role one day too.

[EVAY]

Parker could talk Diaw to take the same $ as this year 4.5M

I wouldn't be mad at Patty taking the MLE, he won us enough games this season... Without him, there's no homecourt, tbh

Parker will be arguing for Diaw to get more, not less money. Parker knew what Diaw could do and convinced the FO to give him a chance. He is super high on Diaw's play last summer and this season, and I think he will try to get the FO to get Diaw as much money as they can come up with.

[Raven]

:rolleyes

You were willing to bet on it and then you backed out.

Behavior that is wholly consistent with your posting style and not the least bit surprising.

Just admit that you're clueless on this subject and we'll call it a day.

how can anyone not be clueless about something as unpredictable as free agency, mine is a prediction but i have nothing solid to back it up nor do i think he is worth that money. If today he gets exposed as he is supposed to, of course the inflated number would crumble, don't see what the issue is.

[TheyCallMePro]

Anyone think we'll re-sign Matt Bonner this offseason? If he agrees to play for the minimum (800 K), then maybe? He's not much of a player...but he's a great locker room guy and knows the Spurs system well. Kind of like a player-coach. And nobody else is going to sign him so...if the Spurs don't...then we could be watching Matt Bonner's last game as a Spur tonight.

[Mel_13]

how can anyone not be clueless about something as unpredictable as free agency, mine is a prediction but i have nothing solid to back it up nor do i think he is worth that money. If today he gets exposed as he is supposed to, of course the inflated number would crumble, don't see what the issue is.

:lmao

You proposed terms for a wager. I accepted them. You
backed out of the bet that you proposed within hours of making the proposal.

If you didn't want to bet, you shouldn't have proposed terms for a bet.

Like I said, no surprise. Your behavior in this thread is consistent with your posting style.

[Mel_13]

You proposed terms. The virtual equivalent of extending your hand:


my terms : if i win, you pay 50 bucks, if you win i stop posting until you said.




I accepted and restated the terms to avoid any possible future confusion:


Those terms are acceptable to me.

To restate:

This wager concerns the first year salary of Patty Mill's next contract (reputable source like Woj or Sham).

If the first year salary is 7.5 million dollars or more, you win.

Less than 7.5 million dollars, I win.

If you win, I pay you $50.00

If I win, you don't post anywhere on SpursTalk from the day the contract is signed until the day the 2015 NBA Finals end.

Acknowledge this post to accept the wager.




You withdrew:


wait for the finals to end though, cause if he doesn't end on a high note, that no way he get's it.

[Raven]

:lmao

You proposed terms for a wager. I accepted them. You
backed out of the bet that you proposed within hours of making the proposal.

If you didn't want to bet, you shouldn't have proposed terms for a bet.

Like I said, no surprise. Your behavior in this thread is consistent with your posting style.

that's not really backing down tbh, but yeah i'm not confident if that's what you wanted to prove

[Mel_13]

that's not really backing down tbh, but yeah i'm not confident if that's what you wanted to prove

Not backing down. Backing out.

You backed out of a wager that you proposed just a few hours after you proposed it.

There's no other possible interpretation.

[xmas1997]

Anyone think we'll re-sign Matt Bonner this offseason? If he agrees to play for the minimum (800 K), then maybe? He's not much of a player...but he's a great locker room guy and knows the Spurs system well. Kind of like a player-coach. And nobody else is going to sign him so...if the Spurs don't...then we could be watching Matt Bonner's last game as a Spur tonight.

I think only if they need his salary to make up the difference in some trade.
Like maybe Kevin Love?
I wish.

[Mel_13]

Anyone think we'll re-sign Matt Bonner this offseason? If he agrees to play for the minimum (800 K), then maybe? He's not much of a player...but he's a great locker room guy and knows the Spurs system well. Kind of like a player-coach. And nobody else is going to sign him so...if the Spurs don't...then we could be watching Matt Bonner's last game as a Spur tonight.

Bonner is a Spur for life. He'll either re-up for the minimum or he'll be working in the front office. I believe that he'll sign for the minimum and be on the roster next season.

[Raven]

Not backing down. Backing out.

You backed out of a wager that you proposed just a few hours after you proposed it.

There's no other possible interpretation.

for what i know, he may tore his acl today or suck so badly none even wants him at all, i did propose a bet, but i'm not foolish enough to actually do it until the season is over.. And we're not even counting possible world cup injuries (altough i don't really know if australia is qualified, i'm assuming it is). All these little variables are unpredictable to a certain degree, and should be added in a fair bet, since it was not the point of the debate anyway...

[Mel_13]

for what i know, he may tore his acl today or suck so badly none even wants him at all, i did propose a bet, but i'm not foolish enough to actually do it until the season is over.. And we're not even counting possible world cup injuries (altough i don't really know if australia is qualified, i'm assuming it is). All these little variables are unpredictable to a certain degree, and should be added in a fair bet, since it was not the point of the debate anyway...

:lmao

YOU PROPOSED THE BET. If you had all these concerns, YOU DIDN'T NEED TO PROPOSE THE BET or you could have added those provisos to your proposal. I am ready right now to agree that the bet is void if Patty sustains an injury before he signs a new contract.

Will you go through with the bet after the Finals if there is no real change in his level of play or health status?

If you can't answer yes to that question, then you have backed out.

[Raven]

:lmao

YOU PROPOSED THE BET. If you had all these concerns, YOU DIDN'T NEED TO PROPOSE THE BET or you could have added those provisos to your proposal. I am ready right now to agree that the bet is void if Patty sustains an injury before he signs a new contract.

Will you go through with the bet after the Finals if there is no real change in his level of play or health status?

If you can't answer yes to that question, then you have backed out.

actually it was you who proposed it, i barely even stated a winning. Yes.

[Mel_13]

actually it was you who proposed it, i barely even stated a winning. Yes.

Please...

You proposed terms in post #151:


my terms : if i win, you pay 50 bucks, if you win i stop posting until you said.

So, to be clear. You go through with the bet after the Finals if there is no real change in his level of play or health status?

A simple yes or no before any other commentary would be appreciated.

[keywester]

for what i know, he may tore his acl today or suck so badly none even wants him at all, i did propose a bet, but i'm not foolish enough to actually do it until the season is over.. And we're not even counting possible world cup injuries (altough i don't really know if australia is qualified, i'm assuming it is). All these little variables are unpredictable to a certain degree, and should be added in a fair bet, since it was not the point of the debate anyway...

Are you worried that Mills may get injured and/or shit the bed or is that what you are hoping for? :nope

[Raven]

Please...

You proposed terms in post #151:



So, to be clear. You go through with the bet after the Finals if there is no real change in his level of play or health status?

A simple yes or no before any other commentary would be appreciated.

yes.

[Raven]

Are you worried that Mills may get injured and/or shit the bed or is that what you are hoping for? :nope

the first one, i actually wish patty the best and in general i like him a lot.

[Mel_13]

yes.

:flag:

[keywester]

the first one, i actually wish patty the best and in general i like him a lot.

Me too!!!

[Genjuro]

I don't think it's enough money, but perhaps a one-year contact using the full MLE ($5.3 million) might do the trick of keeping Mills for the next season and off the books for the 2015 summer. I think Diaw will get something around 7-8 million a year. And keeping Bonner for the minimum is a no brainer IMO.

Also, I would love to see Marc Gasol signing for the Spurs better than a high-volume scorer. It would mean that the team would be playing a similar brand of basketball in the future and stay a contender, even if the spacing issues are a concern. Still, it's going to be extremely difficult.

[downunder]

I bet both of these losers won't pay up even if they lose

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You mean you can't remember?!

Mate I thought you were serious about the Spurs!

;)


Agree Mills is probably the best in a long time. I thought Nick Van Exel would have brought what Mills does.... Mills brings the goods although his vision still needs more improvement. He may very well become the next Parker. Parker never had such a sweet shot at 25 though!

Yeah, I remember. I was there. ;)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Damn, Patty just pushed his contract to 24/4... :lmao

[downunder]

But for Patty filing in when Parker was injured and doing so well Spurs would not have made it to finals. Tonight he spurred the Spurs on with timely 3s. Did you see the Heat coaches reaction ? Mills quick scoring put paid to any Heat comeback.

[TheGreatYacht]

PAY MILLS DAMN IT!!!!

CAN IT BE ANY CLEARER?!?!?!

He said in an interview with Jabari Young of Express News that he would be selfish not to look at other opportunities smh. RC PLEASE PAY THIS MAN

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2014/06/16/postgame-extra-1-on-1-with-patty-mills/

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

PAY MILLS DAMN IT!!!!

CAN IT BE ANY CLEARER?!?!?!

He said in an interview with Jabari Young of Express News that he would be selfish not to look at other opportunities smh. RC PLEASE PAY THIS MAN

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2014/06/16/postgame-extra-1-on-1-with-patty-mills/

Calm down, we will. He'll be back. ;)

[ceperez]

Boris would be floundering around the league right now (probably undeservedly, as he got a raw deal in Charlotte) if it weren't for the Spurs. Hopefully he'll give a LITTLE bit of a hometown discount.

Boris is a unique player too but is not a true center like Splitter, which for whatever reason trade at a premium.

Boris collected a ton of money from Charlotte. Can't say he got a raw deal there.

But, given how little effort he made with Charlotte, not a lot of teams are going to pay him big money. Not a lot of teams will know how to use him. He likely stays with the Spurs with a Ginobli like salary. 4 years, 7m per.

Mills.... maybe 4-5m per. Unless a Spurs coached team gets him first (i.e. Hawks, Sixers, Warriors, ... )

[Mel_13]

yes.

Your choice as to whether we go forward with this or not. Patty's performance last night actually makes it even less likely that you could win, IMO. The bet just doesn't seem fair to me, as there's virtually no chance that you win.

Let me know. If you want out, that's fine with me and I won't bring up this thread ever again.

:flag:

[Mel_13]

Damn, Patty just pushed his contract to 24/4... :lmao

That was an epic performance last night. I can see a scenario where the Spurs abandon any chance for significant cap space in 2015 and bring everyone back, including Patty on an MLE sized contract.

[Raven]

Your choice as to whether we go forward with this or not. Patty's performance last night actually makes it even less likely that you could win, IMO. The bet just doesn't seem fair to me, as there's virtually no chance that you win.

Let me know. If you want out, that's fine with me and I won't bring up this thread ever again.

:flag:

why is that? yeah it's definetely a bold bet on my part, but you only live once right?

[Mel_13]

why is that? yeah it's definetely a bold bet on my part, but you only live once right?

I'm confused. Are you in or out?

As to my estimate based on last night. I think it is now more likely that the Spurs could be willing to pay Patty an annual salary in the neighborhood of the MLE. So that even if there were a team willing to use cap space and go above the MLE, Patty would be likely, IMO, to take less money and stay with the Spurs.

At any rate, once we get over the celebrations, Patty is still a 5'11" combo guard. The last little combo guard that contributed to a championship and got paid was JJ Berea in 2011. He got 4yrs/19M from Minnesota. I find it absolutely inconceivable that Patty gets any offers above the MLE (4/21).

I'd recommend that you agree to let the bet lapse, but it's your choice.

[Raven]

I'm confused. Are you in or out?

As to my estimate based on last night. I think it is now more likely that the Spurs could be willing to pay Patty an annual salary in the neighborhood of the MLE. So that even if there were a team willing to use cap space and go above the MLE, Patty would be likely, IMO, to take less money and stay with the Spurs.

At any rate, once we get over the celebrations, Patty is still a 5'11" combo guard. The last little combo guard that contributed to a championship and got paid was JJ Berea in 2011. He got 4yrs/19M from Minnesota. I find it absolutely inconceivable that Patty gets any offers above the MLE (4/21).

I'd recommend that you agree to let the bet lapse, but it's your choice.

i see your point. all right, let's leave this bet. It's still an interesting story though.

[Mel_13]

i see your point. all right, let's leave this bet. It's still an interesting story though.

I agree and, unlike some other debates on ST, this one will have a definitive resolution in matter of weeks.

[Brazil]

Parker will be arguing for Diaw to get more, not less money. Parker knew what Diaw could do and convinced the FO to give him a chance. He is super high on Diaw's play last summer and this season, and I think he will try to get the FO to get Diaw as much money as they can come up with.

:lol what ?

How in hell Parker has a word about the amount of money Spurs should give to Boris ? Parker will, for sure, advocate for Spurs to retain Boris but at this point, FO and Pop don't need to be convinced of how valuable Diaw is for this team

[ceperez]

I'm confused. Are you in or out?

As to my estimate based on last night. I think it is now more likely that the Spurs could be willing to pay Patty an annual salary in the neighborhood of the MLE. So that even if there were a team willing to use cap space and go above the MLE, Patty would be likely, IMO, to take less money and stay with the Spurs.

At any rate, once we get over the celebrations, Patty is still a 5'11" combo guard. The last little combo guard that contributed to a championship and got paid was JJ Berea in 2011. He got 4yrs/19M from Minnesota. I find it absolutely inconceivable that Patty gets any offers above the MLE (4/21).

I'd recommend that you agree to let the bet lapse, but it's your choice.

Minnesota definitely over paid big time for Barea. However, that figure should indicate the ceiling of the deal that Mills would get.

[Mel_13]

Minnesota definitely over paid big time for Barea. However, that figure should indicate the ceiling of the deal that Mills would get.

That's exactly what I said.

[EVAY]

:lol what ?

How in hell Parker has a word about the amount of money Spurs should give to Boris ? Parker will, for sure, advocate for Spurs to retain Boris but at this point, FO and Pop don't need to be convinced of how valuable Diaw is for this team

I'm not saying that what he is saying is determinative, but I do think that the players make their positions known and they lobby. For example, when TP's contract was up several years ago, lots of folks around here were saying that he should or shouldn't get X, Y, or Z amount. I don't remember the particulars (you probably know them much better than I) but Tim Duncan publicly said at one point that he hoped that the FO gave TP what he wanted and that he, Tim, would do it himself if he could (which was an easy thing to say since he wouldn't have been allowed to, even if he was serious).

I'm not saying that what Tim said was determinative of what TP got, but it was public support for TP. That is all I was saying that I expected Tony to be doing for Diaw.

I agree that the FO is currently high on Diaw, but there is always lots of competition for contract dollars.

You needn't get upset. All I was really saying was that TP was and is a strong proponent of Diaw, which he repeated in the post-game interviews last evening.

Chill, already.

[TJastal]

I advise not to make money bets on ST with all the welchers around..

[Brazil]

I'm not saying that what he is saying is determinative, but I do think that the players make their positions known and they lobby. For example, when TP's contract was up several years ago, lots of folks around here were saying that he should or shouldn't get X, Y, or Z amount. I don't remember the particulars (you probably know them much better than I) but Tim Duncan publicly said at one point that he hoped that the FO gave TP what he wanted and that he, Tim, would do it himself if he could (which was an easy thing to say since he wouldn't have been allowed to, even if he was serious).

I'm not saying that what Tim said was determinative of what TP got, but it was public support for TP. That is all I was saying that I expected Tony to be doing for Diaw.

I agree that the FO is currently high on Diaw, but there is always lots of competition for contract dollars.

You needn't get upset. All I was really saying was that TP was and is a strong proponent of Diaw, which he repeated in the post-game interviews last evening.

Chill, already.

I'm not upset :lol the fuck ? chill of what ? where did you see I was upset ?

I'm just replying to your post I found over the top saying I don't see Parker having an influence regarding amount of money Spurs should throw at Boris neither I think he will advice Boris to ask for the max he can.

When Duncan is saying gives whatever the guy wants, he is showing it is important for him Parker feels comfortable with contract offer. From that to "he will try to get the FO to get Diaw as much money as they can come up with" there is a world.

[EVAY]

When Duncan is saying gives whatever the guy wants, he is showing it is important for him Parker feels comfortable with contract offer. From that to "he will try to get the FO to get Diaw as much money as they can come up with" there is a world.

Whatever. I think it's just semantics at this point. I didn't think 'there was a world'.

nm.

[Brazil]

Whatever. I think it's just semantics at this point. I didn't think 'there was a world'.

nm.

it's all good evay

and really for getting me upset today it would take a lot :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Predictions:

Patty 22/4, rejects slightly higher offer to stay.
Boris 18/3

This assumes the cap increases $5mil to $63.7mil and we renounce Daye.

I'd also re-sign Bonner to the minimum if we can squeeze him in.

[tholdren]

Predictions:

Patty 22/4, rejects slightly higher offer to stay.
Boris 18/3

This assumes the cap increases $5mil to $63.7mil and we renounce Daye.

I'd also re-sign Bonner to the minimum if we can squeeze him in.

would rather have Daye than Boner I think. But Baynes over both for sure

[TheGreatYacht]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1327406******=40

:lmao look at all the Knicks fans... They don't know if Patty will fit because the spurs have beautiful offense and the Knicks have "ISO idiot ball"

I actually think Patty would fit perfect on the triangle, tbh. Phil never had top tier PG's, just Point Guards that can hit the open shots.

#PayPatty RC Buford

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Who else is willing to make a prediction on these contracts?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Bump

[itzsoweezee]

Predictions:

Patty 22/4, rejects slightly higher offer to stay.
Boris 18/3

This assumes the cap increases $5mil to $63.7mil and we renounce Daye.

I'd also re-sign Bonner to the minimum if we can squeeze him in.


Can the Spurs afford those contracts? If so, those amounts seem completely reasonable and I can't see Patty and Boris leaving.

[dg7md]

Diaw will come back for sure, it's Patty that I think bolts to a beta team because of an insane contract. Patty is great but he won't be able to be our starting point this year and I have no doubt some lesser East team will sign him up for a starting role. I just hope we can get something good out of this because he was essentially the true Finals MVP if you can consider the closeout game.

Ideally, we need to resign both and get another piece to hopefully go for a repeat, but I don't really know if all will be possible.

If we can only keep one of the two, we'd better keep Diaw — he's far more important to our system and is arguably why we beat OKC and Miami.

[BackHome]

I want Diaw for his amazing passes and makes our offense flow
I want Mills cause he is instant offense is getting better as a PG and will take big shot
I want Baynes because we could have drawn Houston and the Grizz
I want Bertans cause he will be a upgrade to Bonner

[Mugen]

Predictions:

Patty 22/4, rejects slightly higher offer to stay.
Boris 18/3

This assumes the cap increases $5mil to $63.7mil and we renounce Daye.

I'd also re-sign Bonner to the minimum if we can squeeze him in.

I love Patty but I'm hoping its in the 4yr/16-18mil range. He's a terrific teammate and I love having him on the team but he's replaceable tbh....

4yr/22mil for essentially a backup 1 & 2 for the duration of his contract is a little steep, especially when Mills' only above average NBA skill is shooting........

[benefactor]

4/22 for Patty? Maybe on some other team, but not the Spurs. He will get what about Mugen said. 4 million a year is a nice payday for him to stay with a team that has a chance to play for a title yet again with teammates he likes.

[ironman2886]

I think we can all agree that Diaw is our #1 priority. Mills puts the bench and team over the top with his A game.

[Mel_13]

I think we can all agree that Diaw is our #1 priority. Mills puts the bench and team over the top with his A game.

Diaw has made himself indispensable if the Spurs want to contend in 2014-15.

[TheGoldStandard]

Spurs have to bring back both, it's in there best interest to keep the corporate knowledge for another run. 4 Mil a year for 3 years seems like a solid offer while the kettle is still hot.

[benefactor]

I don't know why anyone is even talking about Diaw. He's not going anywhere.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I love Patty but I'm hoping its in the 4yr/16-18mil range. He's a terrific teammate and I love having him on the team but he's replaceable tbh....

4yr/22mil for essentially a backup 1 & 2 for the duration of his contract is a little steep, especially when Mills' only above average NBA skill is shooting........

I see Patty as the starter in 2015-16 after Tim and Manu have probably retired, and TP is given the option to stay and help rebuild, or take a trade to a contender.

Patty is only 25 and has another level of improvement in him I think. Just like TP, his range of useful skills will continue to develop.

Like you, I hope we get him for 18/4, but I think 20/4 or 22/4 are worthwhile to keep him.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Here is the Spurs' salary situation: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

[ironman2886]

I don't know why anyone is even talking about Diaw. He's not going anywhere.
Do you think Duncan is going to retire? He's dodging the question. I'm alittle nervous about it.

[siraulo23]

^ yeah diaw isnt going anywhere unless a team overpays him, and i mean like overpay him 3-4 times his value (which isnt gonna happen), diaw is staying with tp and the spurs

as for patty, i hope he does stay

[benefactor]

Do you think Duncan is going to retire? He's dodging the question. I'm alittle nervous about it.
Not at all. It's standard issue stuff until after all the championship stuff is over with. With Manu already committed, Tim is as good as in. He already said long ago he would play until "the wheels fall off." Not sure what you saw this season, but he looked as if he wasn't close to that.

[ironman2886]

Not at all. It's standard issue stuff until after all the championship stuff is over with. With Manu already committed, Tim is as good as in. He already said long ago he would play until "the wheels fall off." Not sure what you saw this season, but he looked as if he wasn't close to that.
He has been great at 38. Acually, he has been pretty much on par with the elite bigmen in the league. Its just the dodging the question part I was nervous about.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yeah, Tim will certainly play on. My guess is he and Manu retire together after next season, and Pop probably goes with them. It'll be a sad day when it happens.

[benefactor]

He has been great at 38. Acually, he has been pretty much on par with the elite bigmen in the league. Its just the dodging the question part I was nervous about.
It's natural to dodge it. There is nothing to announce until he sits down with Pop and RC. Things have worked like this with the Spurs for years now.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Do you think Duncan is going to retire? He's dodging the question. I'm alittle nervous about it.

I doubt he retires. I think he might opt out and sign another 2 year deal for slightly less money, 2 yr 16 mil. With the extra 2 mil, this will ensure both Diaw and mills are back. It takes awhile to
learn the Spurs System so keeping both is essential if the Spurs are serious about repeating.

[Cry Havoc]

Duncan should state that he sprained his thumb bowling and state that he's retiring, then report to Spurs' practice the next day talking about how good the medical staff is to get him in shape so quickly. :lol

[BatManu20]

I think they both stay unless Patty gets a ludicrous offer elsewhere. If he does leave, there are a bunch of good PG's in this draft. And we'd have money to spend on another FA. Hope we retain them both though.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

Hope they both come back as they are both two very important cogs in our well oiled machine of a team...

[anakha]

Looking at that salary table, if only by comparison, I'm not sure Mills should be getting more than Green's per year salary.

Equal to might be justifiable, given their relative skillsets.

[TheGreatYacht]

They both dodged the questions in their exit interviews... If they both stay, can they afford Gasol?