Van Exel vs Finley

[picnroll]

Not that the Spurs will get either but who would you like to see the front office make a primary target?

[Marcus Bryant]

Aaron McKie.

NVE and Finley seem less likely to me as potential acquisitions than McKie. McKie also fits the Spurs' primary need (backup swing who can play and defend the 3) and system better than either NVE or Finley.

[Kip Fanatic]

Why not both? They would both fill good roles for the Spurs. Its almost near impossible, but would be good for them and the Spurs. They could give the Spurs coaches some inside info on the Mavericks offense and defense. Wait a minute. They don't have a defense.

[Marcus Bryant]

The thing is, if you sign either one of those guys then you will have to change your system somewhat. Finley is going to command heavy minutes and perhaps a starter's role. NVE might be a somewhat better fit, but would he be willing to take only 14 minutes or so a night off the bench and play team ball?

McKie fits the Spurs' system, he won't command heavy minutes, and he wouldn't force you to change your style at all, the style that has won 2 championships in the past 3 seasons (and that could've easily been 3 in a row).

[picnroll]

Okay will add McKie

Pluses and minuses;

NVE
Pluses - Solves backup PG proble. Solves problem of scoring punch off the bench. Clutch player who you know is going to show up at playoff time.
Minuses - Health. How many minutes are left in those arthritic needs. Doesn't solve the problem, particularly defensively of a longer swing player.

Finley
Pluses - Good swing player. Very goog three point shooter. Can be that scorer off the bench. Solves the added swing player need if Brown isn't signed. Probably would be a pretty good defender still in Spurs system.
Minuses. Doesn't solve the backup PG problem. Up and down in terms of playoff cluthness. Getting a little injury prone. Still doesn't entirely solve the long SF needs.

McKie
Pluses -Solid defender. Some offensive game. Best long three solution. May be more available though I thin NJ is going after him.
Minuses - Doesn't solve PG or scorer off the bench problems. Age and injury as others.

My choice NVE

[MI21]

Just out of the 2 mentioned, I would take Van Exel. He is a complete killer at the end of games, can sub in and play bigger minutes when Parker is struggling, has playoff experience, can hit the long ball in bunches and has the type of killer instinct and annoying ability to hit momentum changing shots that few players have.

Defensively he is weak, but the Spurs system has been able to hide many an average defender in the past so there would be no reason why it couldn't with NVE. He is a pretty nifty passer and very creative with his headfakes, floaters and ball handling and could probably teach Tony a few crafty veteran type moves. Could also play the 2 guard effectively when other teams go small.

The problem with him has always been his attitude and locker room presense. If the Spurs could keep that in check, then he would a fantastic pickup. I don't really like seeing the growth of Beno stunted, because I do rate him, but when we are in the prime years of Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili's careers as well as Tony entering his soon, we don't need to be developing players out there, we need to be putting players out there who will be effective.

[xcoriate]

Nick the not so quick wasn't that clutch in the 02-03 dvd final quater vd the mavs. When they needed him to hit some shots he stunk it up. He was a primary reason they lost that game.

[MI21]

Nick the not so quick wasn't that clutch in the 02-03 dvd final quater vd the mavs. When they needed him to hit some shots he stunk it up. He was a primary reason they lost that game.

He was the reason they even got that far into the playoffs though.

[xcoriate]

true. But in the most crucial of quaters.

[Spurminator]

When they needed him to hit some shots he stunk it up. He was a primary reason they lost that game.

Finley was worse, actually. 0-2 with 3 turnovers in the final quarter. NVE was 2-6, but he was also the only Maverick to hit a shot during that 10 minute span.

[MI21]

Finley was worse, actually. 0-2 with 3 turnovers in the final quarter. NVE was 2-6, but he was also the only Maverick to hit a shot during that 10 minute span.

Yeah, Finley couldn't even get an attempt at a high % shot against Steve Kerr of all people.

[picnroll]

One other thing I like about NVE, assuming he can still do it, is he is a penetrator. That would give the Spurs three killer penetrators in Manu, Parker and Nick. With the new defensive rules penetrators are invaluable.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have Parker, Udrih, Barry and Ginobili to handle the point. Sure, if NVE was willing to come to SA for what they have to offer in minutes and $ then yeah, they'd take him. But I think the PG "problem" isn't as critical as some Spurs fans seem to think it is.

[picnroll]

Beno regressed as the season went on. After the all-star break and teams knew his game he was not very effective. Parker ended up playing so many minutes he got tendinitis which probably didn't help his playoff performance any. Wouldn't want to see a repeat of that and right now Beno's usefullness is a major question mark.

[Mr. Body]

Beno regressed as the season went on. After the all-star break and teams knew his game he was not very effective.

Rookie wall.

[Marcus Bryant]

Beno regressed as the season went on. After the all-star break and teams knew his game he was not very effective. Parker ended up playing so many minutes he got tendinitis which probably didn't help his playoff performance any. Wouldn't want to see a repeat of that and right now Beno's usefullness is a major question mark.

Please. He had one bad series as a rookie. The Spurs have plenty of players to cover that spot and frankly, that's where Barry can perhaps justify his paycheck.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

If I had to choose between the two I'd take Van Exel. Given the situation he has the potential for a good pickup at best, or at worst an unhappy guy stuck at the end of the bench. Best case scenario the Spurs get a good shooter and vet PG who might be a mentor to Beno. Worst case scenario he gets bitchy and gets benched or cut.

If you're looking for a back up point guard, Van Exel is probably the best FA option out there at the moment, but there are plenty of swingmen still available that I would take ahead of Finley.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd want NVE first and foremost because he is a postseason player.

[Manu20]

I'd want NVE first and foremost because he is a postseason player.
That is the reason I want NVE.

[Marcus Bryant]

Indeed. Put him, Ginobili and Horry on the floor to close out games and you have 3 clutch shooters with TD down low.

[Spurminator]

Van Exel was actually a great teammate by all accounts in Dallas. I think he just has to be in a winning situation.

I'm not sure there's a place for him here though. I see him as more of a backup 2 guard than a true point, and that's not really one of our needs. Plus, he's at his best when the reigns are loose and he's having to carry the scoring load... not a situation he'd likely see in San Antonio. He's not the spot-up shooter type who will be successful on outlets from Duncan or Manu.

[Marcus Bryant]

The case for NVE would be that he's a clutch shooter and that the Spurs just won a title without much size on the perimeter. At the end of the bench it's better to have players than try to fit specific positions. With him, Ginobili and Horry together for the next couple of seasons the Spurs would have a great set of clutch postseason shooters.

[Spurminator]

Is he clutch, though? Or are we still attributing that to him because of his Laker seasons and the couple of seasons following?

One poster on MavTalk.com calculated Van Exel's clutch stats from the past 3 years... I can't validate them, but it's easier than calculating them myself. If he's right, Van Exel's "clutchness" seems to have passed him by.


2005 - POR
FG% .318
EFG% .406

2004 - GSW
FG% .361
EFG% .393

2003 - DALL
FG% .324
EFG% .381

CLUTCH STATISTICS = (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points)

http://www.mavtalk.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001266

[Marcus Bryant]

What would Horry's 'clutch stats' look like if he didn't have a TD or Shaq down low?

[Marcus Bryant]

Another minor point of interest...NVE would give the Spurs two players with dominant left hands.

[Spurminator]

Horry's more of a spotup shooter off the outlet. Like I said, I don't see Van Exel flourishing in that kind of role. He likes to create and come off screens to shoot.

[Marcus Bryant]

He can create his own shot.

[Rick Von Braun]

Is he clutch, though? Or are we still attributing that to him because of his Laker seasons and the couple of seasons following?

One poster on MavTalk.com calculated Van Exel's clutch stats from the past 3 years... I can't validate them, but it's easier than calculating them myself. If he's right, Van Exel's "clutchness" seems to have passed him by.



http://www.mavtalk.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001266
The poster didn't calculated anything. He got the stats from 82games.com. The stats are accurate BTW.

[mookie2001]

this is a debate???????????????

nve is a pg who is old and broken down with a bad attitude who chunks up ill advised shots and has no knees

Finley all the way
better shape, better game, a position we need

[timvp]

This is a good question. Out of the three, I think McKie has the least risk involved. He's exactly the type of solid veteran the Spurs usually go after. He'd be happy with five minutes a game, but would be capable of playing 20+ if needed. He also has a role player type game in that he only takes shots that are open and has been known as a good defender.

NVE and Finley are both high risk, high reward type players. With NVE, you have a player who isn't afraid to shoot the ball in big moments. That's an element that the Spurs need. Last year, the Spurs only had a couple of players who actually wanted to shoot with the game on the line. NVE will take and make big shots. The downside to him is that it stunts the growth of Beno Udrih and you have to worry about his health. Veteran point guards who can no longer D up and force bad shots (CWard, ACarter) do not play in Pop's system. At best, NVE is a Terry Porter type player. At worst, he's the Charlie Ward disaster all over again.

Finley only makes sense if the Spurs have given up on Barry. If they have, then yeah go ahead and replace him with Finley. He's a good shooter and can be a good defender in the Spurs' system. Plus, when he's not a focal point of the offense, he can be pretty clutch. The risk is that he's breaking down and he won't accept a role player type role with the Spurs. He's one of those players whose career has been shortened by playing for Nellie too long. Nellie played him 40+ minutes for a bunch of years in a row and killed his legs. And with the Mavs, he never bought the idea of coming off the bench. If he has that type of attitude with the Spurs, he won't last long.

[Marcus Bryant]

McKie would cause the least amount of disruption in the Spurs' system.

I don't see Finley as being happy in SA. He'd have to fight for minutes, play defense, and reign in his offensive game. Ditto for NVE.

[T Park]

Does Mckie have anything left though.

Finley seems to have more left than him.


Can Mckie still knock down the 3 with any consistency?

[SenorSpur]

The more I read this thread, the more I like the sound of McKie. I know he's always been a top-notch professional and a better than average defender. Since I've not seen him play in a while, does anyone believe he has something left in his tank?

[mookie2001]

barry already dribbles around and does nothing, so we dont need mckie to do that
finleys the man

[Marcus Bryant]

McKie is a little bit better than that. Finley will likely not be available for the Spurs.

[SenorSpur]

McKie is a little bit better than that. Finley will likely not be available for the Spurs.

Let's hope not. Finley is a limited, inconsistent, one-dimensional jump-shooter.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

I really dont like NVE as a clutch performer. He aint that good man. When I think clutch I think Jordan, Kerr, Horry, Billips. Not NVE. He aint clutch. Manu and Timmy will take that crunch shot for us. Horry too can do it. So I dont know why everyones trying to get another crunch time performer. We dont need another overrated clutch performer. We need good defense. The problem we had last year with Devin backing up Bowen was that devin had high energy and could score abit but could play solid defense. I can remember a few bad rotations he had and he went to sleep a couple of times. Mckie sounds much better to me in terms of defense and he will be cheaper than devin. he can take the veterans minimum and go for a ring. Devin will be looking for more. And as someone said earlier, McKie will be ok playing 5 mins or 20 mins. And he doesnt need to have the ball to be effective. He can spot up shoot.

[Manu20]

I really dont like NVE as a clutch performer. He aint that good man. When I think clutch I think Jordan, Kerr, Horry, Billips. Not NVE. He aint clutch.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030510/DALSAC/recap.html


SACRAMENTO, Calif., May 10 (Ticker) -- Nick Van Exel never met a big shot he didn't like. Van Exel scored a playoff career-high 40 points and made a series of difficult clutch shots as he rallied the Dallas Mavericks to a 141-137 victory over the Sacramento Kings and a 2-1 lead in their Western Conference semifinal series.

In a frenetic see-saw game filled with clutch plays, Van Exel seemed to make them all. Not even a member of the starting lineup, he is averaging 32 points through the first three games and has become the pivotal player in a series filled with stars.

"We have so many good shooters, so you get an opportunity to get some good looks. And not really just forced shots," Van Exel said. "So that's the best thing about it. When you're shooting the ball well, your teammates tend to find you and when they do, you have a lot of space to get your shots off."

"He made big plays again all night long, tough shots, big shots," Kings coach Rick Adelman said. "He just played great. He gives them a huge boost when he comes off the bench."

Van Exel rallied the Mavericks with fearless shooting in the fourth quarter, forced overtime with a running jumper with 3.8 seconds left and struck again in the second OT with the go-ahead 3-pointer and the clinching free throws.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Thats just one game. Anyone can have a one game. Just because TMac was clutch against us for 13 secs does it mean you want him to take your every last shot? Please.

[CaptainLate]

Indeed. Put him, Ginobili and Horry on the floor to close out games and you have 3 clutch shooters with TD down low.

Plus you have a passing center in Oberto.

[CaptainLate]

NVE and Finley are both high risk, high reward type players. With NVE, you have a player who isn't afraid to shoot the ball in big moments. That's an element that the Spurs need. Last year, the Spurs only had a couple of players who actually wanted to shoot with the game on the line. NVE will take and make big shots.

Small ball: Van Exel, Manu, Barry, Horry, Timmy (Tony is out for the year with chronic tendinitis -- thanks Euro-ball).

[T Park]

Bump.

Just wondering where the Van Exel haters in THIS thread are?

Curious.